No one likes to be insulted...

[grantser10]

This post goes out to Jabroni -beatin_pie -eatin

did u hear me say that cena not selling at a wm was more insulting to me than any other of the arguments given? no because i did not adress any of the other examples in my post because i was merely agreeing and backing up johnoldsnake4 with his argument of how cena can't sell. and if u read my post properly u wud have noticed that my example extends further than that one wrestlemania (which u based ur entire reply on) as i go on to give a long term example of his inabilty to apply an stf properly and even sell the move realistically. look at the list of people who have tapped out to this weakly applied manouvre over the years: edge, hbk, hhh, randy orton, big show, khali, cm punk, jbl, batista the list goes on. u can not say that it is not an insult to our intelligence that people are tapping out to this embarrassingly applied manouvre every week and over the last several years because if you do then u need to re-think ur existence. the wm incident was one example i gave to back up johnoldsnake4 because i agree with him that cena can not sell damage and in my opinion can not sell submission. i did not mean for this to become a cena hate thread but fact is fact and he can't sell damage and really can't sell submission. the wm incident was one example as i said before but stretches out to a wider time span that is john cena's wwe career in the last few years and is a huge insult to our intelligence because that's what cena is every week.

the thing that annoys me and insults me most is acting like blood has never been spilled, chair shots have never been given, toning down violence, sexuality, humour and this is in no way shape or form a pg era bashing but a point and it is this. today kids are the main target audience of wwe but there are still attitude era dvd's and pre pg era dvd's available to buy on the market and parents could buy these for kids based on what we are seeing today and i'm sure its happened where kids see a completely different product and notice a difference. they can have no blood, chair shots, cursing, raunchy humour, innuendo, violence all they want but if parents or kids are buying these dvd's they will notice the difference in the product and may question it jus like we do today. its insulting for the parents and the kids.

it's also insulting 4 us hardcore fans

 

[arun_is_wrestling]

I'll tell you what really insults my intelligence

Whenever a wwe talent gets released or suspended it never gets mentioned on tv.

Like the case of serena. They act like she NEVER existed!!??? I don't get why they do that? Even the kids aren't stupid enough to not know who serena was. I hate that. Its ignoring the talent as us, saying, "we'l make you forget about him/her"

That needs to be fixed. They could have had cm punk say on tv, "Now you're probably wondering why there are 3 of us and not the usual four. Well whats missing here today is a mole, a mole in the Straight edge society. An anomalie. That anomalie is serena. Despite me giving her a second chance, I once again found her in the corner of a bar, looking defeated and stressed. So i kicked her out of SES on the spot! Serena will no longer be a part of this group of purity. She now walks the same path as all of you drug addicts!"

Thats all there was to say! Doesn't that sound good? Wouldn't you feel happy knowing that she was aknowledged atleast and that you were informed???

Simple things like that were what paul heyman used to gain the trust of his fans. Don't lie to the fans. Don't insult the fans. What i used there wasn't a lie, it was related to what actually happened.

Please wwe, use my tips lol Do it right, keep it true.

 

[Hazardous]

I used that WM moment people often bring up as an example. I did indeed read your whole post, but everything Cena is accused of, I can come up with quite a few stars over the years who have done some of the same things. My main point was I fail to see how you can say ANYTHING Cena has done is more "insulting" to the wrestling fans then any of the other things listed. Someone tapping out to a poor stf ticks you off more then hornswaggle winning matches? Especially a title?

 

[vampirek]

First off, I just don't understand why the Summerslam tag match gets so much hate. Cena only eliminated the last two guys and he BARELY won, so what's the issue? It was exciting, suspenseful and it made sense. You guys really need to get over that one, as well as the irrational Cena hate.

Anyway, if I had to pick something that insulted my IQ, it would be any match involving Hornswoggle. I'm all for suspending disbelief, but seeing a midget take down a grown, capable man is just a bit too much. Especially when he starts using foreign objects like water guns and tennis balls right in front of the ref; shouldn't that result in a DQ? I know it's for the kids, and that gives it some leeway, but it still bothers me a bit.

I think you are failing to see what people are talking about when it comes to the Summerslam match. One minute he is being dropped on his head (might I add Cena had neck surgery too) on the floor to jumping about it. Now that in wrestling terms is no selling. Yes wrestling is fake, but it needs that element of selling which was completely lacking at the end of that match. Cena isn't the only one to have done this but he is the most recent of the lot.

However I'll be fair and show it isn't just 'Cena-bashing', its a good answer by giving you a good few who have done it before him:

Eugene - Now that insulting
Warrior - Although went with his superhero like gimmick, his higher power helping him
Hogan

...and there will be many more out there too.

As for trying to get the topic back on topic:

Edge and Christian being friends
Edge teaming up with Matt Hardy randomly
Guest hosts who havent got a clue on whats going on
Whoever keeps telling Michael Cole 'Raw is the longest ever.... bull****'
Anyone who says it is a first, when its clearly isnt. Like when Batista went to the top rope and Cole always said 'I've never seen Batista go to the top'
There are countless more out there too like Hornswoggle, Bob Backland's last WWF title reign and so on

 

[pj8985]

I see a couple of flaws with your thinking.

1. You are making the mistake of putting realistic logical thinking into a "fantasy kayfabe" world that is wrestling. Were you also insulted when Papo Shango made the Ultimate Warrior puke with voodoo? Were you insulted when at RR 1994 the Undertaker "resurrected" from the dead or any of the supernatural things he does until this very day?

Wrestling is a tv show...it deals with superhero/villain-like characters who can do extraordinary things. Don't think of them as real-life people (its not a reality show). Think of them as comic book characters come to life. If you watched any comic book character made into on screen movies...do you feel insulted because real life actors do superhuman roles in those movies? No you dont. Then why should it be any different in pro wrestling? You need to see the BIGGER picture and realize that these are just ACTORS playing roles of characters. Hugh Jackman is Wolverine no differently than Mark Callous is the Undertaker or John Cena has superman-like abilities. If it doesnt insult ur intelligence that Hugh has adamantium claws then it shouldnt insult you that Cena can "hulk up" and overcome the odds or the Undertaker can magically appear inside an empty coffin etc.

2. Regarding the "fake" Razor/Diesel...this goes back to something I previously brought up...this is the entertainment industry...these are actors playing the role of characters. The role of a character can be played by different actors believe it or not. Are Roger Moore, George Lazenby,Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan, and Daniel Craig FAKE James Bonds because Sean Connery was the original? Is Ric Flair the FAKE Nature Boy because Buddy Landell/Rogers was the original? Are Val Kilmer and Kevin Costner FAKE Batmen because others played the role beforehand?

PRO WRESTLING IS JUST A TV SHOW...its entertainment...its a "wrestling-themed" soap opera with actors playing characters, with scripts, storylines, episodes, etc. And once again in the entertainment industry, MORE THAN ONE ACTOR can play the role of a character, i.e. the fake Razor/Diesel isnt fake...its just not the original actors playing the "role" of Razor/Diesel anymore. Whether Chris Daniels or Kaz plays the role of Suicide...my friend its still Suicide on screen.

If you wanna ask whether the fans will "accept" a non-original actor playing the role of a character once played by someone else...well...who knows...thats another discussion on its own...

When the Ultimate Warrior came back at WM 8 during the Sid/Hogan match, he looked drastically smaller in size...there was a widely believed rumor it wasnt the original actor (Jim Hellwig) playing the role again...however as quickly as that rumor was dismissed people at the time still accepted who they thought was a "new guy" as the Ultimate Warrior still...fans back then knew how to accept the actor-character difference...

the problem with "modern" fans is that...they are too "smarky" for their own good...they dont realize a character is just that...they associate the actor who plays the role as one in the same...but then again...these modern day "smarks" maybe wrestling geeks...but the obv dont know squat about the "entertainment" industry...specifically "sports entertainment"...

I agree with everything you said here except Kevin Costner never played Batman it was Michael Keaton lol

 

[grantser10]

to jabroni-beatin_pie-eatin

first off hornswaggle is a joke. who gives a shit about him. he shouldn't b in matches let alone win them. i'll agree with you there. having said that i haven't seen too much of him recently cos i never really watch raw or smackdown in full anymore. i just flick through them. if hornswaggle pisses u off maybe u shud do the same. secondly u bring up him winning a title ( cruiserweight championship in 2007). lets face it thats not the best example u cud have brought up because in 2007 the cruiserweight division was a joke anyway, nobody cared nd so the title is now retired as you know. thirdly i think it makes more sense to be pissed off at a guy( john cena) who we are supposed to take seriously in the main event as opposed to being pissed at a midget who can't wrestle either winning a below mid card championship. who or what do you think people care about more: the main event? or hornswaggle? nd finally to re-adress ur other argument: i never said anything he does is more insulting than anything else the wwe does so stop putting words in my mouth again. my post was merely focused on him (john cena) and his inabilities. again if you read my reply u wud have saw that i went on to talk about so much more.

 

[The Viper Orton]

Thank God this is in WWE not in TNA, cause there I feel insulted once weekly (even though I still watch it cause I love the talent there)

In WWE over the Years I began feeling insulted near WM 20. I remember finger of doom and for whatever reason, I still laugh to this day and say bischoff.. that bastard. You can't imagine how happy was I with Nash/Sting. However, it wasn't an insult

The first insult for me back in the day, is Kurt Angle vs Eddie Guerrero (RIP), and I was a fan of these two alot. I thought it would be one of the best matches in history. Then the shoes incident and kurt lost!! I hated it like no other thing. It was like you robbed my 5-star build up match in my mind by a cheap loss in the the very longest and "special" WrestleMania.

The 2nd one is like a group of matches and ofc like everyone Super Cena. Making Triple H and Shawn Michaels tap out is big, and when benoit got it we thought of it as an achievement and he deserves this main eventing after all the hard work. But Cena, on both!! Then came the cena-edge which went along and I bared with it. But then, Orton-Cena storyline especially I quit match. WOW, Orton tortures and demolishes cena all the match and cena loss wouldve been been normal if they made such storyline like a career threatning injury and quit because for a PG-ratings match it was barbaric. But wow 3 minutes of attack and orton taps!! I have never felt more insulted by WWE. And that was the day I felt that TNA deserved to be my No1 wrestling company (before hogan arrived as WWE is superior)

 

[BillAlfonso]

I get your meaning, a lot of the stuff is stupid because this is supposed to be an athletic competition, they're pretending this stuff if real. By that token, Cena's win/loss record should be worse than Santino's or Chavo's seeing as he's usually beaten to the point that no one can come back. That's what made the matches between Stone Cold and The Rock so good, it was basically an even competition so you can see either outcome. Another thing that I find insulting is how they expect us to believe that cruiserweights can hold their own against heavyweights.

 

[Hazardous]

to jabroni-beatin_pie-eatin

first off hornswoggle is a joke. who gives a shit about him. he shouldn't be in matches let alone win them. i'll agree with you there. having said that i haven't seen too much of him recently because i never really watch raw or smackdown in full anymore. i just flick through them. if hornswoggle pisses u off maybe you should do the same.

Well I actually did enjoy the 'Swoggle/DX thing for a bit. It was amusing for what we normally get. I don't get pissed off by anyone enough to just stop watching. Or even skip through the show at random.

secondly you bring up him winning a title ( cruiserweight championship in 2007). lets face it that's not the best example you could have brought up because in 2007 the cruiserweight division was a joke anyway, nobody cared and so the title is now retired as you know.

Could have been done different. Either bring some people up to compete in the division, or keep it going with the ones who were there.

thirdly i think it makes more sense to be pissed off at a guy( john cena) who we are supposed to take seriously in the main event as opposed to being pissed at a midget who can't wrestle either winning a below mid card championship. who or what do you think people care about more: the main event? or hornswoggle?

Okay, so tell me the difference between Cena, and Hogan? The face of the company is not supposed to lose. Plain and simple. The market is KIDS! that is the target audience right now. That's why the lil' bastard was winning matches, that's why he's on TV to begin with.

and finally to re-address your other argument: i never said anything he does is more insulting than anything else the wwe does so stop putting words in my mouth again. my post was merely focused on him (john cena) and his inabilities. again if you read my reply you would have saw that i went on to talk about so much more.

Do you really believe that kids want their hero to lose? NO. That is why he doesn't lose clean. So there goes that right off the start. Now, I know you didn't say that, but that's what your post seemed to indicate. In a topic of what is insulting, you have tons of options, yet you focused it on Cena. That's so over done at this point, and a split topic. Many people can find good in all of what you call "inabilities". But can you find any good in some of the other things brought up? The changing the past (E&C) or the '99 Rumble? I know what your post said, and I was summarizing it up to a "John Cena Sucks" post. Basically that's what it was. (fixed your spelling errors in it)

 

[Tugboat77]

I'll tell you what really insults my intelligence

Whenever a wwe talent gets released or suspended it never gets mentioned on tv.

Like the case of serena. They act like she NEVER existed!!??? I don't get why they do that? Even the kids aren't stupid enough to not know who serena was. I hate that. Its ignoring the talent as us, saying, "we'l make you forget about him/her"

That needs to be fixed. They could have had cm punk say on tv, "Now you're probably wondering why there are 3 of us and not the usual four. Well whats missing here today is a mole, a mole in the Straight edge society. An anomalie. That anomalie is serena. Despite me giving her a second chance, I once again found her in the corner of a bar, looking defeated and stressed. So i kicked her out of SES on the spot! Serena will no longer be a part of this group of purity. She now walks the same path as all of you drug addicts!"

Thats all there was to say! Doesn't that sound good? Wouldn't you feel happy knowing that she was aknowledged atleast and that you were informed???

Simple things like that were what paul heyman used to gain the trust of his fans. Don't lie to the fans. Don't insult the fans. What i used there wasn't a lie, it was related to what actually happened.

Please wwe, use my tips lol Do it right, keep it true.

I completely agree. I was irritated as well that Serena wasn't mentioned on the 900th episode of Raw during Punk's promo OR on Smackdown this week. They did the same thing with Mickie James and many others. You would think that with it being geared more towards young people and kids (who are much more observant than most adults give them credit for) that they would offer some sort of explanation so as not to confuse the kiddies who don't read internet sites.

 

[Tugboat77]

I forgot to add a couple other things that irritate me and I have to FORCE myself to suspend my intelligence just for a bit other than E&C and not explaining missing talents after they are released.

1) In Rey Mysterio's matches, nearly every other move makes his opponent fall against the ropes in a position for the 619. And don't give me any crap about him hitting moves specifically to make people land that way because if that was the case, wrestlers would be landing against the ropes like that in nearly every single match, no matter who was involved. (Also Rey winning the heavyweight title but that's a whole other thread).

2) This is gonna make some people angry but I really don't care. I have to suspend belief every single time Ric Flair throws a punch at someone. To be considered one of the greatest in history, Flair has the worst punch I have ever seen. It never "lands" closer than 4-6 inches away from his opponents body. If you don't believe me or have chosen to ignore it, watch an episode of Impact if you can stand it.

 

[CyDeez]

I mentioned Cena in my first post on here. But, I wouldn't consider it Cena-Hate by any means.

Am I sick of Cena? Yes! But do I understand why they do what they do when it comes to him? Yes!

That doesn't mean I have to like it, but I am not insulted by it. If I was WWE I would do the same thing. It's all about Money/Marketing with him. AND I would want to make as much money as I could off of him too.

Also, I agree to feeling somewhat insulted when someone leaves the company, and then they are "wiped off the face of the earth"...

But on the same token, I understand why they do that too... Why promote a guy and/or create a buzz around someone that will be making another company money?

Like Daniel Bryan Danielson! All the hype surrounding him, it would have been stupid for WWE to let him end up in TNA or something after all the buzz that was created around him, and it all involved WWE.

I agree with what one of the other posts said about, "Good thing this is in WWE, not TNA"... I am insulted by TNA much more often. Hyping surprises and what not pisses me off.

 

[grantser10]

' Someone tapping out to a poor stf ticks you off more then hornswaggle winning matches? Especially a title?'

to Jabroni-beatin_pie-eatin

this is an earlier quote that you gave me. now the indication this gives me is that you don't like hornswaggle winning matches or titles. you obviously are insulted by this or else you wouldn't have mentioned it.

Well I actually did enjoy the 'Swoggle/DX thing for a bit.The market is KIDS! that is the target audience right now. That's why the lil' bastard was winning matches, that's why he's on TV to begin with.

okay so here are more quotes you gave about the hornswaggle angle and yet here you seem to be defending him somewhat. you either are with him or against him. stick to your argument. also again if you read my earlier post i went onto to state my opinions on what the target audience are getting today. also i must say based on this quote defending hornswaggle would dispute your argument completely because according to you he's there for the kids as they are the target audience right now. in 2007 the wwe were gettin a bit lazy and this in my opinion was when they slowly started to go pg and aim at kids so if hornswaggle was there for the kids that's probably why they gave him a championship that was dying out anyway and he cud say that he was a champion nd also to have that skit with noble at the time to entertain the kids. i don't agree with it but thats the way they went with it and why they done it. becasue as you say he was popular. but either way it doesn't matter anyway because the title is gone. other examples that are worse are david arquette winning the wcw title but again that title is gone to. what about mcmahon winning the world title or santino winning the intercontinental title. all examples of joke title reigns and all involved are bigger than hornswaggle.




Okay, so tell me the difference between Cena, and Hogan? The face of the company is not supposed to lose. Plain and simple.


another quote of yours: first of all i never said that he wasn't suppose to lose i just questioned the realistic value of him winning by submission with his crappy stf.


Do you really believe that kids want their hero to lose? NO. That is why he doesn't lose clean.


another quote of yours: i also never said anything about kids seeing their hero lose whether losing clean or not. again you are putting words in my mouth. you brought up the losing clean thing, not me. i have no problem with cena winning every now and again but all i ask is that he makes his submissions and his comebacks realistic looking.

and for the record i can find good in all the other arguments mentioned. Never had a problem with mcmahon winning as it was necessary for the feud at the time . it also was a crap rumble match any way you look at it. if mcmahon and austin were not there in that match who would have stepped up and won. chyna? unlikely. triple h? at the time maybe but it was too soon for him. d'lo brown? as if. big boss man? again as if. undertaker wasn't even in the match yet we still had to sit through joke eliminations like gillberg. so again never had a problem with mcmahon winning in terms of storyline as it drew heat and was unexpected and unpredictable which is always good in my book and kept austin with something to do while the rock finished off with mankind. now i no it seemed pointless as austin was given the no. 1 contender spot the next night but lets face it every one expected him to win the rumble nyway nd they would have ended up going down the predicitable road instead of creating great controversy which it shows they have done a great job at as people are complaining about it. also it didn't affect austin as he won the rumble the year before and would win it again in 2001. besides he won the title at mania anyway that year so i don't see the damage. the E and C thing annoys me a bit with bad continuity but i'm not furious with it either.

what insults my intelligence is when someone leaves and then comes back with bleached blond hair under a new name and they hope we won't recognize them i.e dolph ziggler and the late lance cade.

 

[Hazardous]

I'm going to teach you a useful thing to know here. See this Icon when writting a post?

That is how you quote. Makes things easier to read, as well as reply to.

this is an earlier quote that you gave me. now the indication this gives me is that you don't like hornswaggle winning matches or titles. you obviously are insulted by this or else you wouldn't have mentioned it.

I may not like it per se.. But not offended by it at all. Always been a surrealism about the WWE. That falls into the "Undertaker and Kane have powers" category.

okay so here are more quotes you gave about the hornswaggle angle and yet here you seem to be defending him somewhat. you either are with him or against him. stick to your argument. also again if you read my earlier post i went onto to state my opinions on what the target audience are getting today. also i must say based on this quote defending hornswaggle would dispute your argument completely because according to you he's there for the kids as they are the target audience right now. in 2007 the wwe were gettin a bit lazy and this in my opinion was when they slowly started to go pg and aim at kids so if hornswaggle was there for the kids that's probably why they gave him a championship that was dying out anyway and he cud say that he was a champion nd also to have that skit with noble at the time to entertain the kids. i don't agree with it but thats the way they went with it and why they done it. becasue as you say he was popular. but either way it doesn't matter anyway because the title is gone.

I bolded that one part, because this ain't Nexus. As stated, I may not LIKE the little guy, but I'm no way offended by him being there, I only used him as an example as something like that is more offensive then anything Cena has done. In other words, nothing Cena does is offensive. Sorry if that wasn't made so clear.

other examples that are worse are david arquette winning the wcw title but again that title is gone to. what about mcmahon winning the world title or santino winning the intercontinental title. all examples of joke title reigns and all involved are bigger than hornswaggle.

I did mention McMahon's title wins. Santino I never had an issue with, actually enjoyed his last IC title run.

another quote of yours: first of all i never said that he wasn't suppose to lose i just questioned the realistic value of him winning by submission with his crappy stf.

I've seen him lock it in good a bunch of times too. Not every time is locked in bad. Look at the first time he used it on Big Show. There's plenty of moves people use that are worse. I loved the Rock, but the peoples elbow was horrid. Should I even mention "The Worm"? You used the term "realistic value". You know what show you're taking about right? This is supposed to be an escape from reality. Kids don't know that it's locked in bad, for the most part. I've herd the announcers say a few times "Oh he didn't get the full effect of it" or something of the sort, just for the people who question it.

another quote of yours: i also never said anything about kids seeing their hero lose whether losing clean or not. again you are putting words in my mouth. you brought up the losing clean thing, not me. i have no problem with cena winning every now and again but all i ask is that he makes his submissions and his comebacks realistic looking.

Again using the word "realistic". There is no differance between Cena's "comeback" and that of Warrior, or Hogan. Hell a few times Rock and Austin, or Kane and Taker have done it. 'Taker has made a career of "sitting up" after taking a beating. Why are you not questioning the "realistic" value of that?

and for the record i can find good in all the other arguments mentioned. Never had a problem with mcmahon winning as it was necessary for the feud at the time . it also was a crap rumble match any way you look at it. if mcmahon and austin were not there in that match who would have stepped up and won. chyna? unlikely. triple h? at the time maybe but it was too soon for him. d'lo brown? as if. big boss man? again as if. undertaker wasn't even in the match yet we still had to sit through joke eliminations like gillberg. so again never had a problem with mcmahon winning in terms of storyline as it drew heat and was unexpected and unpredictable which is always good in my book and kept austin with something to do while the rock finished off with mankind. now i no it seemed pointless as austin was given the no. 1 contender spot the next night but lets face it every one expected him to win the rumble nyway nd they would have ended up going down the predicitable road instead of creating great controversy which it shows they have done a great job at as people are complaining about it. also it didn't affect austin as he won the rumble the year before and would win it again in 2001. besides he won the title at mania anyway that year so i don't see the damage.

HHH, Kane, Shamrock, hell, Why not Chyna. They were going to take away the WM title shot anyway, so why not give it to someone so that they could have it on their resume for the rest of their career. Could have been any member of the corporation that was left in the ring with Austin at the end, Vince distracts him, and he gets thrown out by said member. The next night they have a 1-1 match and Austin wins. That I could buy. But to have Vince win? Ugh. That was just horrid. As I said before, winning the Rumble hasn't really had the same prestige to me since.. And we've had some big winners since then.

 

[KingSpeaks]

Here is something that insulted my intelligence...and it surrounds the Big Bossman. Two story lines...both ending with someone/something dying. Big Bossman killing Al Snow's dog and feeding it to him. The Big Show's dad passing away, The Big Show is at the funeral, Bossman attacks him and hooks up the chains to the casket....and we all know the rest. Bossman dragging the casket while the Big Show is on top of the casket and he falls off of it. Really??? It was funny but insulting.

 

[fenfool]

I don't get the whole "this guy beat this guy, that insults my intelligence" thing. The shows are a story told by writers and athletes who are also actors...I look at what they present as such. It seems a lot of people, particularly the so-called IWC, watch shows not as fans, but as writers/bookers. Lots of "they should have had x beat y" and, "w losing to z made z look weak" type comments. I didn't hear the same thing when, say, Kimbo Slice lost his big MMA tv debut, those comments were more like, "wow, he really does suck". It really doesn't matter if you throw Cena off of a building and he gets up, or if Kaval beats the crap out of Big Show or whatever...it's the story that is being told. The whole "let's make them think this is all real" thing went out the window a long time ago. Now they are just trying to fill the seats and sell merch, and maybe occasionally tweak the IWC. So I think we are well past the "this booking insults my intelligence" thing, as much "this CSI plotline insults my intelligence", or whatever other scripted show. Well, whatever way people watch is up to them, whatever gives you the most enjoyment. My expectations from the wrestling shows are to put together a situation that will let the athletes entertain as best as they can...if that means giving Jericho some mic time, then a 15 minute match, or giving someone a chance to prove they can go or give a promo, then that is what I hope for. If they are putting Flair and Hogan in the ring again, that's not an insult to anyone's intelligence, that is just failing to entertain.

As far as the Goldberg-Lesner WM match goes...knowing what was happening, and what the outcome was, I don't think that was an insult to anyone's intelligence, it was more like what did you expect to see from that pairing in that situation? I'm pretty sure nobody was expecting Steamboat-Savage part 2 out of them.

 

[mrbooker]

Aside from the fact that the thread has deteriorated into a John Cena hate thread, surprise surprise, I really think that too much is being made out of this.

First of all, there are plenty of people in the world that could insult the intelligence of wrestling fans for watching professional wrestling in the first place. I do think those people are full of shit personally, but think about it for a second. We spend several hours of our weekly lives watching a show in which you have people running around in spandex engaging in "fake fights" with choreographed endings and rehearsed spots that resembles a combination of a fight scene in an action film and a comic book. We have these same people playing characters usually using fake names that pretend to be good guys and bad guys. When you break wrestling down to the most basic understanding of it, that's what you get.

If you're not willing to suspend disbelief when watching pro wrestling, then I honestly don't understand what the hell you're doing watching it. SuperCena is nothing new in wrestling. Various promotions have their own take on the superhuman babyface that can withstand tremendous amounts of punishment and come back and "vanquish evil" in the end. Hulk Hogan did it, Ultimate Warrior did it, there were times that Sting did it and I could probably go on and on with other examples. I sometimes get annoyed with SuperCena as well, but there's a reason he's out there. I know that some continue to spout nonsense about the WWE's audience being nothing more than 10 year olds despite the facts that the ratings each week say otherwise. As hard as it is for some to accept, John Cena is a popular wrestler with just about every age group that watches WWE. Kids do like him, teenagers like him and adults like him. And because they like him, they spend money to see him do his thing and buy his merchendise. The ending to SummerSlam didn't bother me because it was, surprise surprise again, actually realistic. On one team, you have a slew of former world champions and main event wrestlers for years against a team of wrestlers nobody ever heard of 6 months ago. Yes, WWE is creating new stars but they're not going to hamstring someone like Cena at the same time because the man's a cash cow.

Are there times in which storylines and outcomes are sometimes booked that make us shake our heads in confusion and/or outright disgust? Of course there are because that's life. Every ending, every match, every wrestler can't be exactly what everyone wants or think sthey should be. It's like that with every television show that's ever aired. Sometimes, you're going to get episodes you don't care about as much and some that you think are outright shitty. Sometimes, you're not going to like seeing certain aspects of whatever segment they're putting up there for you to see.

I would like to thank you Jack Hammer for your post as I share a majority of your posts thoughts, so now hopefully my post can be a little shorter

With that said Wow!!! I was surprised by how much heat this post got...

1st of I would like to state im not a cena hater... the knocking of the summer slam match was mainly due to what i like to call match surroundings as a avid watcher since i was 3 years old. Such things a chair shots, going through tables, removing the turnbuckle pad, running into ring post, power moves on the stairs etc... where always sold MAJOR. And any time the outside mats where removed and a move was going to be done on the concrete it was sold HARD, perhaps it was due to the announcing back then being more of a story telling/selling type of announcing....

but I understand the adrenaline and all that it was just difficult to accept comparitvely to alot of wrestling matches I have seen in my lifetime, not only due to the concrete DDT but also that Cena was already previously beaten down before that DDT... With that said I understand why Cena won you cannot have 6 nobodies beat maineventers because if nexus was to flop you just made the face of your company and your top maineveters job for no reason

Thats my defense as far as why I put that match up it wasnt meant to jump on cena, like the majority of the post here, hence why I asked people to be match/promo specific to avioid all that mess.

While I do agree with Jack Hammer the one thing that does make me to look at things differently is because of how the WWE decided to potray their company, when there were characters like the Ultimate Warrior, Hogan, Macho Man, that superhuman stength, that aura, the unstopable momentum it was the norm it was what the WWF was about............

However when WWE decided to make that switch to making characters less cartoony, less gimmicky, and more like there real life counter parts it does change the dynamic of the in ring psychology, and action to a degree. Once they wanted to make the characters more believable more "life-like" the dynamic of wrestling as a whole change, and we saw it unfold infront of our eyes from shoots in the ring, to a whole new way to hype promos, to how match psychology was presented. I would hope most people could agree with that statement to a degree.

I understand its a show, its entertainment, not reality, however wrestling is popular, and was very popular in the past because its competitve entertainment, their is nothing in this world like it, people loved wrestling because you knew every show you where going to have a decent/good/great match/es, and a eventual payoff, somthing no sport could offer on a weekly basis. With that said you obviously take things with a grain of salt in wrestling and I understand that.... I wonder if this thread would have been any different if I would have have taken the summer slam match out of my list? In any case i do felt it desreved to be their with the others matches/promos and that doesnt knock cena or WWE in anyway its just one match because i put macho and ultimate warrior on my list and those two are on my top 5 list as guys I enjoyed watching.

This post was never meant to re-introduce summer slam beef it was more to just invoke memories from the posters....Lets face it summerslam will most likely just be an after thought after the 6 pack challenge anyway

 

[AndyUK]

I never had a problem with the Summerslam ending and I don't really have a problem with Cena anymore either. He's had some great matches and carried both Lashley and Khali to what I think are the best matches they had/have in the company. The Cena can't wrestle crap is wearing a little thin now. Wrestling isn't real so stuff like Cena coming back doesn't insult my intelligence at all. Same as Hogan hulking up never did. When I watch wrestling, I'm really not looking for realism because if you really think about it, most things in wrestling are not realistic in the slightest. I just watch it because it is very entertaining.

 

[Trill Co$by]

-.- people blew this topic WAY WAY WAY out of proportion. OP was simply saying that sometimes, even while we're adults, some of the storylines WWE does can be believable. For instance, HBK going bankrupt and having to have a loan shark (JBL) help him. Or even Kane and Taker, to some extent is believable. Sure we all know that demons and powers don't exist... but right now, I'm 100% behind Kane simply because I'm the little brother stuck in the shadow of the older brother... in that same breath, I'd like to thank Taker & Kane for bringing me back to the old Hart Family rivalry days when Owen was in Kane's spot.

It's stuff like THAT that make storylines interesting, and then there are storylines that get you thinking "What the fuck?"

Like... Hornswoggle & McMahon as father & son. Or even Daniel Bryan being called a rookie/terrible wrestler (fuck you Cole).

But to me, the biggest storyline that had me going WTF would have to be Snitsky as a baby killer. I mean seriously? Vince couldn't think of any other way to make this guy look bad than that? I mean to me that's one of the dumbest things to ever, I repeat, EVER come out of WWE's creative department.