No one likes to be insulted...

[mrbooker]

Before I start this thread, because I know where this topic has the potential go. This is not a thread to knock the PG era, or any era, or to hype any era.... With that said im sure thats what this will turn into but here goes.....

At the end of the day once you get older and aren't a kid who still thinks wrestling matches is as realistically competitive as an NFL game the one thing that I think everyone can agree on is that wrestling still have that beliveable mystique, that it does not insult your intelligence. WWE in my opinion has a pretty good track record with this, unlike WCW with the infamous finger poke of doom, and fake shoots. So with that said I was wondering what matches/promo if any have made you/your intelligence feel insulted from WWF/WWE.

For myself,

Fake Razor/Fake Diesel(do I really need to state why)

Katie Vick storyline(just not necessary)

Goldberg vs Brock Lesnar at WM( no effort at all on both sides)

Team Cena vs Nexus at SS(slap in the face to the integrity of wrestling, and those viewing)

Looking at it now that im older
Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior at WM7, same as cena vs Nexus, with macho hitting I believe 5 flying elbow drops on warrior and still losing however at that time Ultimate Warrior had that magical/ crazy/unstoppable aura that everyone bought into, that made it not be a complete b.s. match,

Im sure their are plenty of others as everyone has their own opinion, so please share!

 

[Monkey_Mania]

Yeah, you're overreacting. I hated the ending of Summerslam at first. After watching it again, it makes sense. It's called an adrenaline rush. People can do crazy things on them, so it's not completely out of the realm of possibility for someone to get beaten, then have a surge and come back from it. As for other storylines, that's all they are, theyre not perfect half the time. Sometimes they can be downright awful. You can get awful storylines out of tv shows such Greys Anatomy or any other show. So no, we're not getting insulted. We are just watching what they provide us.

Im actually insulted by your thread. More than anything that WWE has done.

 

[Just2Sweet]

Super Cena is a smack in the face of rational thought on a weekly basis. He constantly gets the shit kicked out of him only to come back with a random "Attitude Adjustment" or STF to overcome the odds. At the same Hogan did the same shit in it's prime, which is basically what Cena is being built up to. The fake Razor Ramon/Diesel gimmicks were horrible, but you can forgive that if you realize that it was a desperate Vince McMahon grasping at whatever straws he could to keep his promotion afloat while WCW kicked his ass on a weekly basis in the ratings war.

 

[King_of_Swing1520]

so basically you saying every cena match is bullshit and insulting to you? because cena gets his as beat but comes back like nothing happend and wins? well thats wrestling. its fake. if you watching and say "theres no way someone could get up from that" ur right. if it was realy they'd kill eachother. but its not. a wrestler needs to sell but he cant sell every move for the whole match. by your reasoning when randy hits an rko and only an rko and he wins its bs and insulting your inteligence because it wouldnt happen that way in real life. its fake, thats why anything and i mean anything can happen. yes to a point it can get ridiculus (like super cena always comming back after no matter the beating) but thats wrestling.

when cena 1st got attacked by nexus they destroyed him, yet he came out next week without a scratch or a limp or anything. you want wrestling to be too real. its not and thats what makes it enjoyable to watch. if you want real then watch ufc, and get a show every so often. if you want some great fake fights everyweek watch wrestling

 

[Tugboat77]

You may not agree with everything the op said but there is no need to be a dick about it. That being said, my biggest beef with WWE/F isn't really match related but storyline. I absolutely detest the fact that we are all just supposed to forget the fact that Edge and Christian were billed as "brothers" for so many years, during their epic feuds with the Hardys, and during the "brother vs. brother" feuds. Then all of a sudden, it just isn't mentioned again. I could halfway understand if they dropped the storyline if Christian had gone to TNA and stayed there. But they actually dropped the "brother" storyline shortly before he even left in the first place. You can't possibly tell me that doesn't insult your intelligence to even a miniscule degree. It bugs the crap out of me. It'll never stop me from watching though. Most things I completely overlook because I understand they are usually done for the advancement of the storylines but for some reason I've never been able to get past that.

 

[Ghost of Benoit]

Before I start this thread, because I know where this topic has the potential go. This is not a thread to knock the PG era, or any era, or to hype any era.... With that said im sure thats what this will turn into but here goes.....

At the end of the day once you get older and aren't a kid who still thinks wrestling matches is as realistically competitive as an NFL game the one thing that I think everyone can agree on is that wrestling still have that beliveable mystique, that it does not insult your intelligence. WWE in my opinion has a pretty good track record with this, unlike WCW with the infamous finger poke of doom, and fake shoots. So with that said I was wondering what matches/promo if any have made you/your intelligence feel insulted from WWF/WWE.

For myself,

Fake Razor/Fake Diesel(do I really need to state why)

Katie Vick storyline(just not necessary)

Goldberg vs Brock Lesnar at WM( no effort at all on both sides)

Team Cena vs Nexus at SS(slap in the face to the integrity of wrestling, and those viewing)

Looking at it now that im older
Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior at WM7, same as cena vs Nexus, with macho hitting I believe 5 flying elbow drops on warrior and still losing however at that time Ultimate Warrior had that magical/ crazy/unstoppable aura that everyone bought into, that made it not be a complete b.s. match,

Im sure their are plenty of others as everyone has their own opinion, so please share!

I see a couple of flaws with your thinking.

1. You are making the mistake of putting realistic logical thinking into a "fantasy kayfabe" world that is wrestling. Were you also insulted when Papo Shango made the Ultimate Warrior puke with voodoo? Were you insulted when at RR 1994 the Undertaker "resurrected" from the dead or any of the supernatural things he does until this very day?

Wrestling is a tv show...it deals with superhero/villain-like characters who can do extraordinary things. Don't think of them as real-life people (its not a reality show). Think of them as comic book characters come to life. If you watched any comic book character made into on screen movies...do you feel insulted because real life actors do superhuman roles in those movies? No you dont. Then why should it be any different in pro wrestling? You need to see the BIGGER picture and realize that these are just ACTORS playing roles of characters. Hugh Jackman is Wolverine no differently than Mark Callous is the Undertaker or John Cena has superman-like abilities. If it doesnt insult ur intelligence that Hugh has adamantium claws then it shouldnt insult you that Cena can "hulk up" and overcome the odds or the Undertaker can magically appear inside an empty coffin etc.

2. Regarding the "fake" Razor/Diesel...this goes back to something I previously brought up...this is the entertainment industry...these are actors playing the role of characters. The role of a character can be played by different actors believe it or not. Are Roger Moore, George Lazenby,Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan, and Daniel Craig FAKE James Bonds because Sean Connery was the original? Is Ric Flair the FAKE Nature Boy because Buddy Landell/Rogers was the original? Are Val Kilmer and Kevin Costner FAKE Batmen because others played the role beforehand?

PRO WRESTLING IS JUST A TV SHOW...its entertainment...its a "wrestling-themed" soap opera with actors playing characters, with scripts, storylines, episodes, etc. And once again in the entertainment industry, MORE THAN ONE ACTOR can play the role of a character, i.e. the fake Razor/Diesel isnt fake...its just not the original actors playing the "role" of Razor/Diesel anymore. Whether Chris Daniels or Kaz plays the role of Suicide...my friend its still Suicide on screen.

If you wanna ask whether the fans will "accept" a non-original actor playing the role of a character once played by someone else...well...who knows...thats another discussion on its own...

When the Ultimate Warrior came back at WM 8 during the Sid/Hogan match, he looked drastically smaller in size...there was a widely believed rumor it wasnt the original actor (Jim Hellwig) playing the role again...however as quickly as that rumor was dismissed people at the time still accepted who they thought was a "new guy" as the Ultimate Warrior still...fans back then knew how to accept the actor-character difference...

the problem with "modern" fans is that...they are too "smarky" for their own good...they dont realize a character is just that...they associate the actor who plays the role as one in the same...but then again...these modern day "smarks" maybe wrestling geeks...but the obv dont know squat about the "entertainment" industry...specifically "sports entertainment"...

 

[JohnOldSnake4]

For me it's John Cena. Bradshaw held the WWE title for 10 months and beat Eddie, Taker, Show, Angle, Booker, all legends and along comes this green, over-hyped kid (who had been US champion and I feel should've stayed there, he was much more entertaining then) and beats him with his now-infamous five move set. That pissed me off and to this day I don't buy Cena. I mean sure, he's a big draw. Sure, he's improved in the last 5 and a half years, just not enough. He made Triple H TAP at WM22 after being made look like a child for 20 minutes. HBK literally kicked him around the ring for a half hour before he made HIM tap the following Mania. There have been many, MANY examples over these last five years. The finish of this year's SummerSlam wouldn't have irked me half as much as it did if he'd learned to fucking SELL for shit. He hasn't even after all these years. I'm sorry, I know wrestling is fake. I know he's the uber-face character the kids can look up to. I get it. But you get DDT'd on fucking CONCRETE, you should be out for a good while. You certainly shouldn't be displaying Neo-esque reflexes to dodge the "vaunted" 450 of Gabriel and wipe out the guy Nexus was essentially created to push with utter ease about 45 seconds later. By making him fucking tap, no less. The following night on RAW he's facing Darren Young. Young DROPKICKS THE RINGSIDE STEPS INTO CENA'S FACE. This not 24 hours after he'd been DDT'd on concrete, mind you. At the count of 8, he's flat on his stomach. At the count of 9 he boosts up and all of a sudden he's back in the ring. Almost like some sorta stop-frame shit. He's so damn robotic and stale, and WWE's persistent ramming down everyone's throats of "SuperCena" is plain insulting. Now I was an Austin fan, and he frankly was similar. The difference is Austin could sell, Cena cannot. Not even a little bit. He needs to learn to SELL for fuck sake! I'm sure not everyone will agree, but that's why we're here right?

 

[CyDeez]

I know what you are saying, but I don't totally agree. This year's Summerslam's ending wasn't what I had hoped it would be either. But, I didn't have the same feeling about it after watching it as I did when I watched Goldberg/Lesnar.

Though I really wished they would have had Nexus win. I don't agree with the finish or the results of it period. But I didn't feel insulted.

Goldberg Vs. Lesnar left me really bummed out. I expected such a better match between the 2. They didn't even put enough effort in to say they were going through the motions. It was The 20th Anniversary of Wrestlemania and they acted like they were being paid $500 to wrestle at Shane McMahon's son's birthday party!!

I have learned to just accept Super Cena. I know it will be over SOMEDAY!! So until then, we gotta just deal with it!!

 

[JohnOldSnake4]

I totally understand your frustrations regarding that WM20 match. It's very fortunate that the rest of the card was flawless as they really did phone it in that night. You'd think with their respective reps for being proud athletes, that they'd both want to give the fans an awesome swan song (which Goldberg and Lesnar were easily capable of at the drop of a hat).

 

[AlwaysHasBeen]

JOHNOLDSNAKE4, you could NOT have expressed any better how I feel about John Cena as a "wrestling entertainer". NO PSYCHOLOGY WHATSOEVER. I mean, I know in such a business as professional wrestling, where we are introduced to new characters and storylines on a weekly basis, we are expected to have very short-term memories and suspend our disbeliefs to the umpteenth degree but John Cena is just no fun to watch in the ring. I thought initially maybe I didn't like him because of his good looks and how much he appealed to the screaming girls in the arenas. Then I got used to that and what I was left with was someone who sold moves just by staring at the bright lights above him until it was his time to do his same 5-move sequence to win his match or have someone come in and DQ him. It still bothers the hell out of me to see him call matches (which he does so blatantly in front of the cameras that you can pinpoint when he's talking to his opponent mind you) when he hasn't the slightest idea of what ring psychology should be. What's a shame at this point is he has tenure and I shudder at the thought that he inevitably will be in the WWE Hall of Fame...

 

[sWo]

Seems like some of you guys have a hard-on for hating on John Cena. This is wrestling. We suspend our disbelief. We're supposed to at any rate. And in all the years I've watched wrestling, the only time I was EVER insulted, was when David Arquette won the WCW championship. Beyond that...no. Why?

Guys like Cena, Hogan, Warrior, Undertaker, etc etc, are the heros. This isn't real, as has been said before. John Cena does a pretty alright job selling. He's not perfect. No one is. Some people oversell , some undersell. That's all there is to it.

 

[JohnOldSnake4]

I don't hate John Cena at all. I just find his robotic superhero gimmick to be trash. I don't feel that he sells well at all. He takes punches particularly badly. When he gets punched he does this weird head sway motion. Suspend your disbelief, sure. One guy can overcome the odds time and again. Hogan did it. Austin did it. Rock did it. DX did it. Cena does it. Cena does it very badly though I feel. A face needs to be able to SELL. I think Cena does a cringeworthy job of that. Different strokes and all that though...

 

[Hazardous]

Well, I'm not going to attack your OP like some high and mighty asshole, because that's just ignorant.

That being said, I'll say the #1 would be Vince winning the 1999 Royal Rumble. That's just horrible, and the rumble hasn't meant as much to me since. Yes we've had some great winners since then, but just something about it has been taken away since McMahon won. The fact that they don't talk about it says a lot for how they feel on that.

 

[The Best At What I Do]

Yes, SuperCena insults our intelligence on a weekly basis. But however WWE decides to portray their characters is their business.

What really bothers me is inconsistency. I have honestly never been as upset with WWE as I was when Christian came back from his TNA run, confronted Edge and out of fucking nowhere now they're friends instead of brothers.

I grew up watching rasslin' and my memory is great regarding E & C since they were my favourite tag team. I've seen people on here try to defend WWE on this one saying shit like "Well maybe they were just so close as friends that they considered each other brothers a-herp-a-derp-derp." Firstly, shut the hell up if you wish to argue me on this point because I don't want to hear nor would I bother responding. Secondly, they had literally dozens of storylines around them being blood brothers.

Anybody recall when Edge was talking to their grandma and Christian says he wants to talk to her, Edge hands him the phone and she hangs up? Hilarious stuff. Then there was another one when their mother gets into a car accident. Yes I'm sure friends share the same mother all the time (look at my eyes... roll 'em!)

I don't care that they're trying to market to a new audience. Changing the past just for the hell of it is the biggest insult to us older wrestling fans. What did it even accomplish? Undertaker and Dr Yankem are still playing brothers and we're getting a new top feud out of that old storyline right now. Edge versus Christian could've been the next big bad blood angle but the ball has been dropped on that.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I knew that this thread would soon deteriorate into a Cena-hating thread and lo and behold I was right. I could tell each and every poster why you are wrong but that takes too much time and I don't want to hurt your feelings.

I will have to agree with somebody that said Vince McMahon winning the Royal Rumble 1999. I know he was in a feud with Austin but you had to seriously let him win. McMahon only spent like two minutes in the whole match and don't get me started on how they booked Austin during the Rumble. To me, this was the worst Rumble ever and it insulted my intelligence.

 

[grantser10]

The difference is Austin could sell, Cena cannot. Not even a little bit. He needs to learn to SELL for fuck sake! I'm sure not everyone will agree, but that's why we're here right?
__________________
i agree with johnoldsnake4. the worst example of cena not selling is wrestlemania 23 against shawn michaels. Michaels worked on his leg for 20 mins and all of a sudden cena is running around the ring hitting clotheslines and power moves where he shouldn't have had the leg strength to do anything based on how it was built up throughout the match. it s as if he forgot everything that transpired up to that point and said 'oh its time for my comeback' which made no sense and looked ridiculous because after all that he shook his leg once to shake it off and that was it. he never looked back and never acknowledged the leg injury again which was pathetic. it's also pathetic that he won the match and that michaels had to tap to that ridiculous stf. that's another thing that annoys me. is it so hard or too much to ask that he makes it look real. it's bad enough to have to tap to him but why can't he have the decency to make it look realistic and stop straining his muscles to make it look as if he's doing something where the opponent has plenty of room to escape becuse cenas hand are clasped far away from their face or neck or any part of the body. daniel bryan is a good example for cena to learn from because he knows how to sell his submission and maybe in my opinion he does a better cross face than benoit considering bryan properly bars their arm in order to prevent them from rolling out. but back to cena. he sucks. he can't sell damage and he can't even sell doing a submission.

btw i'm new to wrestlezone

 

[Hazardous]

The Cena hate really needs to stop. Especially in this thread. Can you honestly tell me that Cena "No Selling" at WM was a bigger insult to you, then any of the other examples given? because if so, then you need to really re-think your existence. That's a horrible example to give. The E&C not being brothers anymore, Giving Jericho the title over HHH, then taking it from him right after, Vince winning numerous things that he shouldn't have won (forgot to add in there.. Buried Alive against the Undertaker). Yet Cena no-selling insults you more. Wow.

 

[bxbigshow]

Dropping the brother angle of Edge and Christian is high if not number one on my list. But at the same time, you have WWE (and TNA) DVD's/Books where both Adam Copeland and Jay Reso kinda admit the whole best friend thing so it's really a judgment call on whether or not to continue it. I just didn't like the call, but I can kinda understand.

SuperCena is Hulk Hogan 2000, it was unbelievable then, and the same goes now. But in the end I've hated the kid playing Clark Kent in Smallville for the 1st 4-5 years of the show. Now 10 seasons in I've accepted that this where the creators want to go...then fine.

Katie Vick insulted everything. And not because of the idea of Kane killing/smushing a dead girl. TV was more risque then, so it actually could've been presented better. HHH should've never filmed anything.

Mae Young banging Mark Henry, then giving birth to a hand...ummm yeah dumb.

But in the end its a TV show, that's it. It's not sport. It's not even American Gladiators where there's actual competition. It's Days of Our Lives for dudes...

 

[FabulousFreeByrd]

Don't get me wrong, I really dislike Cena... But.. For what the WWE is now, he's the mack daddy on a program that's catered to a younger generation. As we get older we become a little more wiser and observant to the poor production and storyline continuity.. For the E&C not to be called "brothers" anymore isn't uncommon, I call my best friend my brother. Hell to further prove my point, Hogan calls everyone who walks "Brother"

More on Cena though, I give him credit where it's due... he's a company workhorse and goes above and beyond to do it, it's a proven fact that if you put yourself out for the world to see, you'll be rewarded..

Something viewers need to understand when they're watching t.v. today.. it's not catered to us adults anymore.. it's all kid/young teen television. MTV went from being a station that defied FCC regulations to be dumbed down with the twilight tweens.. Why? Simple answer, they get a buttload of money. That's age range is the MAJOR CONSUMER.. So yeah, we're gonna be insulted by the product, because in reality it isn't for us anymore.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Really, very little about professional wrestling insults my intelligence, if anything. The whole point of professional wrestling is that it is in no way reality based. The entire premise of all of the in-ring action is beyond reality: the types of hits they supposedly take, their reactions to them, etc., The mic work all suspends reality as well: the over the top promos, the gimmicks, the face versus heel battle, etc., Professional wrestling is all about a temporary escape from reality, just like a TV show that draws you in, or a movie that really catches your interest, whatever. I, for example, may really enjoy a particular Sci-Fi show or movie, but I don't really believe that Scotty is about to beam me up, or that Darth Vader is coming to get me.

We all deal with reality every day. Work, school, relationships, financial matters, family stresses, etc., Professional wrestling, like any other form of entertainment, just puts that on the back burner for a little while, and I've got no problem with that.

 

[FabulousFreeByrd]

Isn't all tv used for the purpose of escaping reality? You mean to tell me, that a storyline from another tv show never insulted your intelligence? If you ask me, Jersey shore insults my intelligence once a week and I don't even watch it.

 

[billm75]

I think I can relate to what you're saying in some regards. But I have to agree with others that if you're watching wrestling, you really have to just enjoy the show, not try to put too much rational thought behind things like Super Cena or Hulk doing his "Hulk-ups" back in the day.

I mean, I like the guy, but Rey Mysterio should have long ago been just a grease stain on the ring mat, yet here he is, a multiple world HEAVYWEIGHT title holder.

Just rock on, enjoy the show and let your rational thought take an evening off.

 

[FabulousFreeByrd]

If i had to pick a moment in WWE history that insulted my intelligence and then some... It would be the whole Kane/Katie Vick angle.. Now only was it repulsing, it was just uncalled for. In that respect, I'm glad wwe is PG.. That storyline was a little too dark and disturbing. haha

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Aside from the fact that the thread has deteriorated into a John Cena hate thread, surprise surprise, I really think that too much is being made out of this.

First of all, there are plenty of people in the world that could insult the intelligence of wrestling fans for watching professional wrestling in the first place. I do think those people are full of shit personally, but think about it for a second. We spend several hours of our weekly lives watching a show in which you have people running around in spandex engaging in "fake fights" with choreographed endings and rehearsed spots that resembles a combination of a fight scene in an action film and a comic book. We have these same people playing characters usually using fake names that pretend to be good guys and bad guys. When you break wrestling down to the most basic understanding of it, that's what you get.

If you're not willing to suspend disbelief when watching pro wrestling, then I honestly don't understand what the hell you're doing watching it. SuperCena is nothing new in wrestling. Various promotions have their own take on the superhuman babyface that can withstand tremendous amounts of punishment and come back and "vanquish evil" in the end. Hulk Hogan did it, Ultimate Warrior did it, there were times that Sting did it and I could probably go on and on with other examples. I sometimes get annoyed with SuperCena as well, but there's a reason he's out there. I know that some continue to spout nonsense about the WWE's audience being nothing more than 10 year olds despite the facts that the ratings each week say otherwise. As hard as it is for some to accept, John Cena is a popular wrestler with just about every age group that watches WWE. Kids do like him, teenagers like him and adults like him. And because they like him, they spend money to see him do his thing and buy his merchendise. The ending to SummerSlam didn't bother me because it was, surprise surprise again, actually realistic. On one team, you have a slew of former world champions and main event wrestlers for years against a team of wrestlers nobody ever heard of 6 months ago. Yes, WWE is creating new stars but they're not going to hamstring someone like Cena at the same time because the man's a cash cow.

Are there times in which storylines and outcomes are sometimes booked that make us shake our heads in confusion and/or outright disgust? Of course there are because that's life. Every ending, every match, every wrestler can't be exactly what everyone wants or think sthey should be. It's like that with every television show that's ever aired. Sometimes, you're going to get episodes you don't care about as much and some that you think are outright shitty. Sometimes, you're not going to like seeing certain aspects of whatever segment they're putting up there for you to see.

 

[Sean Valjean]

First off, I just don't understand why the Summerslam tag match gets so much hate. Cena only eliminated the last two guys and he BARELY won, so what's the issue? It was exciting, suspenseful and it made sense. You guys really need to get over that one, as well as the irrational Cena hate.

Anyway, if I had to pick something that insulted my IQ, it would be any match involving Hornswoggle. I'm all for suspending disbelief, but seeing a midget take down a grown, capable man is just a bit too much. Especially when he starts using foreign objects like water guns and tennis balls right in front of the ref; shouldn't that result in a DQ? I know it's for the kids, and that gives it some leeway, but it still bothers me a bit.