NHL Thread - 2009-10

[It's Damn Real!]

Well moves like Arnott, Rolston, Shanahan and the last unsigned remainder of the 'A' Line – Petr Sykora – are all aspects of last ditch effort-type signings if you ask me. Kovalchuk makes sense on paper, but considering the their precarious future in net, it too smells of desperation to me, as Lou quite obviously wants to load up as best he can to get one more championship out of Marty before he rides off into the sunset. As of this moment, I doubt it happens, but I've been wrong about this type of thing before, so take it as you will.

 

[Big Sexy]

Well moves like Arnott, Rolston, Shanahan and the last unsigned remainder of the 'A' Line – Petr Sykora – are all aspects of last ditch effort-type signings if you ask me. Kovalchuk makes sense on paper, but considering the their precarious future in net, it too smells of desperation to me, as Lou quite obviously wants to load up as best he can to get one more championship out of Marty before he rides off into the sunset. As of this moment, I doubt it happens, but I've been wrong about this type of thing before, so take it as you will.

Signing older players are somewhat desperate moves as well but they are much cheaper ones. Shanahan played just one year and got less then one million dollars. Arnott is entering the last year of his contract so they basically traded for a one year loaner. Small and expiring contracts have much less risk then 17 year 100 plus million dollar contracts. But I guess the bigger the risk the bigger the reward so we will see how this whole thing plays out.

 

[simpsons_fanatic742]

Finally this whole Kaovalchuk saga is over with. I can't believe that LA couldn't close the deal on this, but you can't really blame them since they couldn't sacrifice the cap with big name players having to be resigned there (Doughty, Simmonds, eventually Schenn). Still though, it seemed like the easiest signing since it was clear that LA wanted Kovy and he wanted to go to LA, but money prevails.

This is a good signing for NJ, but I hope it's not for the rumoured 17 years/100 million. He's 27 now and having a players locked up until he's 44 isn't good for the team. Lou wanted to make a splash and wanted to bring Kovy's fire power back to his defensive team, but sacrificing the future may bite him in the ass. If the deal isn't the 17 year one then it could turn out to be a beneficial signing. At least it's over with.

LA lost out on another forward they were rumoured to be going after. Gagne was traded to the Lightning in a very good deal for Tampa. Yzerman is doing a great job so far running that team and adding Gagne to Lecavalier, St. Louis, Stamkos, and Malone is going to be awesome. The Flyers had to make this trade to relieve cap space, but you would think that they could of gotten a better return. At least get a forward not another defenceman. They are stacked with d-men now and you have to think that another trade is in the works.

The signing of Kovalchuk was indeed the move that set off the dominoes and I fully expect there to be a slew of trades and signings now that the big fish is off the market.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Signing older players are somewhat desperate moves as well but they are much cheaper ones. Shanahan played just one year and got less then one million dollars. Arnott is entering the last year of his contract so they basically traded for a one year loaner. Small and expiring contracts have much less risk then 17 year 100 plus million dollar contracts. But I guess the bigger the risk the bigger the reward so we will see how this whole thing plays out.

Arnott in his last year or not, makes $4.5M (cap hit), which is a significant contract in a hard-cap era. Had he never been acquired to begin with, you wouldn't be up against the wall (at all, really) with the idea of re-signing Parise.

If Kovalchuk is worth $100M+ over 17 years, what is your supposed franchise player in Parise worth?

Finally this whole Kaovalchuk saga is over with. I can't believe that LA couldn't close the deal on this, but you can't really blame them since they couldn't sacrifice the cap with big name players having to be resigned there (Doughty, Simmonds, eventually Schenn). Still though, it seemed like the easiest signing since it was clear that LA wanted Kovy and he wanted to go to LA, but money prevails.

This is a good signing for NJ, but I hope it's not for the rumoured 17 years/100 million. He's 27 now and having a players locked up until he's 44 isn't good for the team. Lou wanted to make a splash and wanted to bring Kovy's fire power back to his defensive team, but sacrificing the future may bite him in the ass. If the deal isn't the 17 year one then it could turn out to be a beneficial signing. At least it's over with.

LA lost out on another forward they were rumoured to be going after. Gagne was traded to the Lightning in a very good deal for Tampa. Yzerman is doing a great job so far running that team and adding Gagne to Lecavalier, St. Louis, Stamkos, and Malone is going to be awesome. The Flyers had to make this trade to relieve cap space, but you would think that they could of gotten a better return. At least get a forward not another defenceman. They are stacked with d-men now and you have to think that another trade is in the works.

The signing of Kovalchuk was indeed the move that set off the dominoes and I fully expect there to be a slew of trades and signings now that the big fish is off the market.

LA's last offer to Kovalchuk was worth $80M over 15 years – an aggregate cap-hit of $5.33M.

Ilya will retire by age 40, anyway – this deal will be heavily front-loaded, to the point he makes $10M in probably the first 8 years, easily. He'll leave a few million on the table, but of the $100M, he'll have earned at least 85% of it, I'd guess.

 

[Big Sexy]

Arnott in his last year or not, makes $4.5M (cap hit), which is a significant contract in a hard-cap era. Had he never been acquired to begin with, you wouldn't be up against the wall (at all, really) with the idea of re-signing Parise.

Arnott's contract comes off the books after this year so it really doesn't have any bearing on Zach Parise signing an extension that would start in the 2011-2012 season. Lou Lamoriello is notorious for waiting until a player is an actual free agent to sign them anyways. Only Brodeur to my knowledge has ever received an extension from Lou in the middle of a season since the lockout.

 

[The People's Peep]

As a devils fan, I am really on the fence about this.

I was elated last year when they traded for him. He is easily one of the best players in the league and he was the offense spark that they needed. Now he signs what is rumored to be a 17 year/over $100 million contract to come back to the team. Having his ability to move the puck is needed with the loss of Paul Martin, and his shot is among the best in the game. But the contract is outrageous and I think resigning Zach Parise was more important that resigning Kovy.

Parise does so much more for the Devils than just what he does on the ice. He is a leader and his work ethic pushes the whole team. He will score the same amount of goals, if not more, than Kovalchuk. They really didnt need Kovalchuk. Now they need to move a lot of players to free up some cap room too. I really think more bad than good can come from signing this contract.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Arnott's contract comes off the books after this year so it really doesn't have any bearing on Zach Parise signing an extension that would start in the 2011-2012 season. Lou Lamoriello is notorious for waiting until a player is an actual free agent to sign them anyways. Only Brodeur to my knowledge has ever received an extension from Lou in the middle of a season since the lockout.

Yes, it does, because Parise has to sign a contract that will affect this season, as well as future ones that the contract duration would undoubtedly touch on in addition. Arnott's $4.5M forces them to dip into the summer cap tremendously, and for what – another failed attempt at a throwback? Holik? Failure. Shanahan? Failure. Rolston? Failure.

What's next, we call up Mogilny to see if he wants in? Kenny Danyko? Scott Stevens? One-year or not, it was a pretty stupid move to make all things considered.

As a devils fan, I am really on the fence about this.

I was elated last year when they traded for him. He is easily one of the best players in the league and he was the offense spark that they needed. Now he signs what is rumored to be a 17 year/over $100 million contract to come back to the team. Having his ability to move the puck is needed with the loss of Paul Martin, and his shot is among the best in the game. But the contract is outrageous and I think resigning Zach Parise was more important that resigning Kovy.

Parise does so much more for the Devils than just what he does on the ice. He is a leader and his work ethic pushes the whole team. He will score the same amount of goals, if not more, than Kovalchuk. They really didnt need Kovalchuk. Now they need to move a lot of players to free up some cap room too. I really think more bad than good can come from signing this contract.

Zach Parise is a top-5 performer in the NHL in that he's a two-way player. Guys like Kovalchuk are fantastic in their ability to score goals, but Parise's value to that Devils club far surpasses Kovalchuks. Far surpasses.

 

[Big Sexy]

Yes, it does, because Parise has to sign a contract that will affect this season, as well as future ones that the contract duration would undoubtedly touch on in addition. Arnott's $4.5M forces them to dip into the summer cap tremendously, and for what – another failed attempt at a throwback?

This is directly from the collective bargaining agreement:

Extensions may be negotiated but only in the final year of the contract and only if such extension is for an amount that can be accommodated in a Club's upper limit for the current year OR as computed for future years.

The fact that Arnott's contract comes off the books at the end of this year does not affect Parise if he signs an extension.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

This is directly from the collective bargaining agreement:

The fact that Arnott's contract comes off the books at the end of this year does not affect Parise if he signs an extension.

Ah, you're right – I just realized he's still got a year left on his extension that'll allow them to re-sign him for next season – that's my fault. I was working under the impression that deal had expired this past season and that an extension was being worked on for the upcoming season, not the one following.

 

[RT]

To All You Toronto Maple Leaf fans on this forum what do you think Brian Burke does with Kabby. Burke has stressed the need of a top six forward so i have been thinking where do they send Kaberle and what do they get in return if they do trade him this summer?.

Kaberle is the longest serving Maple Leaf still on the roster and personally is one of my favorite Leafs at the moment in mind I think they keep him for a while until Burke gets a trade that really makes him happy.

 

[simpsons_fanatic742]

To All You Toronto Maple Leaf fans on this forum what do you think Brian Burke does with Kabby. Burke has stressed the need of a top six forward so i have been thinking where do they send Kaberle and what do they get in return if they do trade him this summer?.

Kaberle is the longest serving Maple Leaf still on the roster and personally is one of my favorite Leafs at the moment in mind I think they keep him for a while until Burke gets a trade that really makes him happy.

Hey, another Leafs fan, welcome!

I believe Burke trades Kaberle. Now that Kovalchuk has signed, Kaberle becomes a big player on the scene. There are a lot of teams out there who need a good puck-moving defenceman and Kaberle is one of the top ones available. Burke has made it clear that he wants a top 6 forward in return for Kaberle and maybe more and if he doesn't get what he wants he will keep him. Some team will pay his price for Kaberle I'm sure.

Now, there are many teams interested, but right now the strongest suitor is apparently the San Jose Sharks. It seems like the rumours going around now are that they are willing to part with either Setoguchi or Clowe and it seems that Burke is very high on Clowe. The Sharks could use Kaberle on the back end and they appear to have something to offer to the Leafs.

There's 2 sides to the fence here. One, Kaberle is a great player and has been very loyal to Toronto for his whole career. A team needs a player like him and he can still help this rebuiliding team. Keeping Kaberle won't be a bad decision by any means. The other side though, trading Kaberle would bring us what we need, scoring. We saw what happened with Sundin. We could of gotten a great return for him and sped up the rebuilding process, but he wouldn't waive his no-trade. Kaberle's no-trade is lifted right now and I think it's the best time to trade him to make sure we get something back. Of coursee, if Kaberle stays Burke can sign him to another contract which is a good possibility if Burke doesn't get what he wants.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Burke will have a much easier time netting a "top-6 forward" for Kaberle then he would have trying to snag a first-rounder as he was searching for prior to the draft. Kaberle is good player, but in no way shape or form is/was he worth a first-round pick in addition to a roster player – you'd have a hard enough time moving him at 32-year old version of him for a first-rounder alone.

Columbus has expressed a desire for a veteran puck-moving defenseman, so perhaps the Jackets are a viable option, but aside from them the Ducks, Sabres and Avalanche I think would all be in the market for his services, though I'm not sure just how many teams will be willing to give up what Burke might be asking for.

 

[Joe's Gonna Kill You]

The NHL is rejecting Ilya Kovalchuk's 17-year, $102 million contract with the New Jersey Devils because it circumvents the league's salary cap, a sources told ESPN.com's Scott Burnside. This will be interesting to see how the contract is reconstructed

 

[The People's Peep]

The NHL is rejecting Ilya Kovalchuk's 17-year, $102 million contract with the New Jersey Devils because it circumvents the league's salary cap, a sources told ESPN.com's Scott Burnside. This will be interesting to see how the contract is reconstructed

Just when I thought the whole Kovy fiasco was over.

I dont expect this to be a quick and easy fix. With such a large amount of money involved, they really have to take the time and sort things out. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes somewhere else now. Its going to be tough for them to make the contract manageable and its possible that both side simply back out of the deal.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Contract was negated, which means the NHLPA has five days to file a grievance (if they plan to) to combat the decision, in which case an arbiter will be brought in to hear both sides out and subsequently make a decision over the contract status. However, if the PA have no gripes, the Devils will obviously have an opportunity to try re-signing Ilya, which they undoubtedly will do if that presser they held today means anything, and hope that he and his agent Jay Grossman can come to terms on a shorter-term deal that'll still allow the Devils to decrease the yearly cap-hit he'd carry – not an easy task by any means.

For those curious, his contract structure was deemed as cap circumvention because of the final six years on the contract – none of which the NHL believed he had any intentions of actually playing.

2010-11—$6 million
2011-12—$6 million
2012-13—$11.5 million
2013-14—$11.5 million
2014-15—$11.5 million
2015-16—$11.5 million
2016-17—$11.5 million
2017-18—$10.5 million
2018-19—$8.5 million
2019-20—$6.5 million
2020-21—$3.5 million
2021-22—$750,000
2022-23—$550,000
2023-24—$550,000
2024-25—$550,000
2025-26—$550,000
2026-27—$550,000

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Just when I thought the whole Kovy fiasco was over.

I dont expect this to be a quick and easy fix. With such a large amount of money involved, they really have to take the time and sort things out. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes somewhere else now. Its going to be tough for them to make the contract manageable and its possible that both side simply back out of the deal.

He'd be abhorred by the NHL community if he signed with another NHL club after holding that presser earlier today – a PC in which he praised the Devils organization and was vocally thankful and quite excited to be a "Devil for life" during – which tells me he won't be rushing to talk with Dean Lombardi or Glen Sather anytime soon.

I'd imagine a couple years or so are cut off the deal so the Devils can argue that him playing to the age of 40-42 is more reasonable than 44, and the years he makes $11.5M in actual salary will roll back to a more reasonable number that'll allot for the loss of a few years that would have otherwise been used to bring his aggregate cap-hit down.

It's KHL or Devils for Kovalchuk, if I'm a betting man.

 

[The People's Peep]

Contract was negated, which means the NHLPA has five days to file a grievance (if they plan to) to combat the decision, in which case an arbiter will be brought in to hear both sides out and subsequently make a decision over the contract status. However, if the PA have no gripes, the Devils will obviously have an opportunity to try re-signing Ilya, which they undoubtedly will do if that presser they held today means anything, and hope that he and his agent Jay Grossman can come to terms on a shorter-term deal that'll still allow the Devils to decrease the yearly cap-hit he'd carry – not an easy task by any means.

For those curious, his contract structure was deemed as cap circumvention because of the final six years on the contract – none of which the NHL believed he had any intentions of actually playing.

Is there any chance for the arbitration hearing to uphold the contract? It is pretty obvious that the last few years were meant to lower the cap hit. But there have been other contracts like this that were accepted and now they turn down this contract. Thats something they can use to support the contract.

The NHL has to prove that they tried to circumvent the cap, but how can they do that? Sure, the contract shows that the last few years lowered the cap hit. But is there a way to show that cap circumvention was the motive for the last years?

He'd be abhorred by the NHL community if he signed with another NHL club after holding that presser earlier today – a PC in which he praised the Devils organization and was vocally thankful and quite excited to be a "Devil for life" during – which tells me he won't be rushing to talk with Dean Lombardi or Glen Sather anytime soon.

I'd imagine a couple years or so are cut off the deal so the Devils can argue that him playing to the age of 40-42 is more reasonable than 44, and the years he makes $11.5M in actual salary will roll back to a more reasonable number that'll allot for the loss of a few years that would have otherwise been used to bring his aggregate cap-hit down.

It's KHL or Devils for Kovalchuk, if I'm a betting man.

Now there are reports that the Devils knew that the contract would get rejected. I could be wrong, but was this a way to basically get an upper hand on everyone else? If what you say is right, he wont go and talk with anyone else now. So they give him this contract, quickly give him a welcome press conference, then when it gets rejected, he has no other option but to try and do whatever it takes to remain with the Devils, including taking less money.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Bettman just TOTALLY fucked the NHL and himself more than the Devils or Kovalchuk.

By calling the Devils on this "circumventing the cap" rule, he's effectively creating a scenario where the Devils may not resign him because they need to keep cap room for guys like Parise. The LA Kings may sign him, but they weren't offering the money the Devils were.

If this contract is voided and no greivance goes through, I'd say there's a 50% chance Kovi takes the tax-free money to play in the KHL, meaning Bettman will have lost the top goal scorer over the past 6 years to Russia. And if that happens, I'd like to see Bettman's head on a silver platter.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Is there any chance for the arbitration hearing to uphold the contract? It is pretty obvious that the last few years were meant to lower the cap hit. But there have been other contracts like this that were accepted and now they turn down this contract. Thats something they can use to support the contract.

The NHL has to prove that they tried to circumvent the cap, but how can they do that? Sure, the contract shows that the last few years lowered the cap hit. But is there a way to show that cap circumvention was the motive for the last years?

Little to no chance the arbitration award would validate what the NHL had deemed a cap circumventing contract already – they'd likely remove a few years from the deal to bring the cap hit up (marginally) and the "retirement" angle down, closer to age 40.

The Hossa and Pronger deals – both "retirement" contracts – were warned by the NHL brass to the owners and agents to be cap circumventing, and though they aren't "illegal" by textbook standards, they weren't going to be accepted (and won't be moving forward). Both Hossa and Pronger's deals should have been negated as well, but because they were the first real instances of teams showing they found a way around the salary cap, a precedent has been instituted to disallow any contracts from completing the same moving forward – much the way headhshots are now barred while actions from games prior are not subject to disciplinary actions – they're "grandfathered" in a sense.

The average age of retirement will play heavily here, and that's 38 – no where near 44.

Now there are reports that the Devils knew that the contract would get rejected. I could be wrong, but was this a way to basically get an upper hand on everyone else? If what you say is right, he wont go and talk with anyone else now. So they give him this contract, quickly give him a welcome press conference, then when it gets rejected, he has no other option but to try and do whatever it takes to remain with the Devils, including taking less money.

The Devils were warned by the NHL that rejection was a serious possibility, but went ahead with the presser anyway, yes. Hard to say what the motive was there, but Lou is not an idiot, though I doubt he was as conniving as to think it would give him any type of leverage, really – it won't.

Kovalchuk has no loyalty to New Jersey. His loyalty is to the money, which Jersey offered him the most of – plain and simple. I doubt he signs with another club because of the backlash he'd receive for it, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking he honestly believed half the rhetoric he spit at that presser.

The Devils have informed the league they will not appeal the decision, which means one of three things:

1. They want the NHLPA to grieve it.

2. They willl make a new offer.

3. They will walk away.

If you're asking me what I think will happen, I think he and the Devils will work something out, or he will go to the KHL (remote possibility).

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Bettman just TOTALLY fucked the NHL and himself more than the Devils or Kovalchuk.

By calling the Devils on this "circumventing the cap" rule, he's effectively creating a scenario where the Devils may not resign him because they need to keep cap room for guys like Parise. The LA Kings may sign him, but they weren't offering the money the Devils were.

If this contract is voided and no greivance goes through, I'd say there's a 50% chance Kovi takes the tax-free money to play in the KHL, meaning Bettman will have lost the top goal scorer over the past 6 years to Russia. And if that happens, I'd like to see Bettman's head on a silver platter.

This isn't Bettman's fault – he didn't craft the CBA, the owners did. If you want anyone to blame, blame them – they're the ones who allowed this type of loophole to exist in the first place despite the fact it was rigorously covered (for this very reason) in the NBA – the same league who's CBA the NHL's is modeled after, and the same league Bettman himself worked tirelessly for when he helped issue theirs in the first place.

The contract is already voided, and the Devils have agreed not to appeal the decision, which means they will not request the NHLPA file a grievance on their behalf (though that doesn't mean the PA can't still do it on their own), which tells me the Devils and Kovalchuk will work this out on their own.

If Kovalchuk flights to the KHL, the NHL wouldn't have lost out on "the top goal-scorer of the last 6 years" (which he is not, by the way – Ovechkin is, Kovalchuk is second, Heatley third...), they'd have "lost out" on a player who refused to play for a reasonable dollar amount, which isn't in any way shape or form the fault of the league – it's the fault of the player and/or his agent. Regardless of Kovalchuk's abilities, players cannot outprice their value in this leauge – we operate under a hard cap for a reason. This is the reason guys like Daniil Markov, Evgeny Nabokov, Alexei Yashin and Alex Radulov all play in the KHL right now, despite being NHL caliber players.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

This isn't Bettman's fault – he didn't craft the CBA, the owners did.

Oh no?

When Marian Hossa and Roberto Luongo signed the exact same type of front-loaded, low cap-hit contract, Bettman and "The NHL" decided to turn a blind eye. They set the precedent by not enforcing the CBA. Suddenly, with Kovi, they pulled the trigger.

"There is nothing that we have done wrong," Lamoriello said Tuesday. "This is within the rules. This is in the CBA. There are precedents that have been set. But I would agree we shouldn't have these. I'm also saying that because it's legal and this is something that ownership felt comfortable doing for the right reasons."

And this...

Johan Franzen, Red Wings
11 years
$43.5M ($3.9M cap hit)
Signed April 2009

Henrik Zetterberg, Red Wings
12 years
$73M ($6M cap hit)
Signed January 2009

Marian Hossa, Blackhawks
12 years
$62.8M ($5.23M cap hit)
Signed July 2009

Roberto Luongo, Canucks
12 years
$64M ($5.3M cap hit)
Signed September 2009

Chris Pronger, Flyers
7-year extension
$34.9M ($5M cap hit)
Signed July 2009

Marc Savard, Bruins
7-year extension
$28.05M ($4M cap hit)
Signed Dec. 2009

The Kovalchuk deal was 5 years longer than Hossa's or Luongo's, and he's a better, more proven player than either of them.

If Kovalchuk flights to the KHL, the NHL wouldn't have lost out on "the top goal-scorer of the last 6 years" (which he is not, by the way – Ovechkin is, Kovalchuk is second, Heatley third...),

Since he entered the league in 2002, he leads the NHL in goals. I just got my # of years mixed up writing on the fly.

they'd have "lost out" on a player who refused to play for a reasonable dollar amount, which isn't in any way shape or form the fault of the league – it's the fault of the player and/or his agent. Regardless of Kovalchuk's abilities, players cannot outprice their value in this leauge – we operate under a hard cap for a reason. This is the reason guys like Daniil Markov, Evgeny Nabokov, Alexei Yashin and Alex Radulov all play in the KHL right now, despite being NHL caliber players.

You serious? The NHL is on LIFE SUPPORT and is in danger of losing the #4 spot in American sports to golf or even - gasp! - SOCCER. And they're going to allow another young, dynamic, marketable star to leave for Russia?

Maybe the fucking NHL just doesn't want Kovi in NJ because it's too small a market. I bet if the Kings made him this same exact offer to play in L.A. they wouldn't have vetoed it.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Oh no?

When Marian Hossa and Roberto Luongo signed the exact same type of front-loaded, low cap-hit contract, Bettman and "The NHL" decided to turn a blind eye. They set the precedent by not enforcing the CBA. Suddenly, with Kovi, they pulled the trigger.

And the entire NHL as well as all it's active agents were warned with the NHL approved Hossa's deal (reluctantly) last season that this type of cap-circumventing (which it undoubtedly is) will not be tolerated in the future, despite the fact there was no "rule" in place to prevent it.

There was no "blind eye" turned to it, just as there was no "blind eye" turned to hits to the head, the stars other than Crosby or Ovechking who "don't get coverage" or any of the other Bettman conspiracy theories.

This, IMO, is just another case of dejected fans blaming the commissioner for the short-comings of a collective group – the NHL owners. He's your straw man.

Johan Franzen, Red Wings
11 years
$43.5M ($3.9M cap hit)
Signed April 2009

2009/10: 5.500
2010/11: 5.000
2011/12: 5.250
2012/13: 5.250
2013/14: 5.000
2014/15: 5.000
2015/16: 5.000
2016/17: 3.500
2017/18: 2.000
2018/19: 1.000
2019/20: 1.000

Two years worth of "retirement" – not six a la Kovalchuk.

Henrik Zetterberg, Red Wings
12 years
$73M ($6M cap hit)
Signed January 2009

Two years worth of retirement – not six a la Kovalchuk.

Marian Hossa, Blackhawks
12 years
$62.8M ($5.23M cap hit)
Signed July 2009

Should have been rejected but wasn't, and instead was used as the "last straw" in which the NHL sent notice out to all active agents and owners in the NHL negating the possibility for this type of circumvention to continue.

Roberto Luongo, Canucks
12 years
$64M ($5.3M cap hit)
Signed September 2009

Three years worth of retirement - not six a la Kovalchuk.

Chris Pronger, Flyers
7-year extension
$34.9M ($5M cap hit)
Signed July 2009

See Hossa.

Marc Savard, Bruins
7-year extension
$28.05M ($4M cap hit)
Signed Dec. 2009

Two years worth of retirement – not six a la Kovalchuk.

The Kovalchuk deal was 5 years longer than Hossa's or Luongo's, and he's a better, more proven player than either of them.

Irrelevant. The quality of the player has no bearing on the type of contract he should/would/is [be] allowed to sign.

Since he entered the league in 2002, he leads the NHL in goals. I just got my # of years mixed up writing on the fly.

Again, doesn't matter in the bigger picture here. Regardless of his ability, he would have refused to play for a dollar amount any teams would be willing to pay him, in which case he'd have defected to the KHL – destroying whatever shred of "loyalty" he had to the league in the process over a dollar amount.

You serious? The NHL is on LIFE SUPPORT and is in danger of losing the #4 spot in American sports to golf or even - gasp! - SOCCER. And they're going to allow another young, dynamic, marketable star to leave for Russia?

Yes, because it's not the NHL's choice what a player is worth – it's the teams that operate within it, as well as the player and the agent. In the event he thinks he's worth more money than the NHL is willing to pay, he will defect to the KHL, as others have done before him, and no one will stop him. There's nothing marketable about a player who leaves the league for more money elsewhere. Nothing. I don't care how exciting he is -*if he is willing to leave over money, he doesn't belong being advertised for anyway.

Maybe the fucking NHL just doesn't want Kovi in NJ because it's too small a market. I bet if the Kings made him this same exact offer to play in L.A. they wouldn't have vetoed it.

The Kings are as equal a pathetic market as the Devils, so that point is moot, and if you're honestly insinuating that the NHL actually dictates where a player can and/or does sign, I've got nothing left to add to this discussion except this:

 

[IrishCanadian25]

The quality of the player has no bearing on the type of contract he should/would/is [be] allowed to sign.

I'm sorry - come again? So you don't think it should make sense that the NHL's leading scorer since 2002 would be coveted enough for a team to want to lock him up long term? Are ya serious?

Yes, because it's not the NHL's choice what a player is worth – it's the teams that operate within it, as well as the player and the agent.

Well, then, let's recap:

The team - wanted to sign him for 17 years, $100 million.
The player - wanted to sign for 17 years, $100 million.
The agent - wanted him to sign for 17 years, $100 million.

Isn't is feasible to think that a 42-, 43-, or 44-year old Kovalchuk will only be worth $750K?

There's nothing marketable about a player who leaves the league for more money elsewhere. Nothing. I don't care how exciting he is -*if he is willing to leave over money, he doesn't belong being advertised for anyway.

So David Beckham is no longer marketable in the UK?

Would one of the UK posters please comment on whether Beckham is still a marketable commodity since he jumped ship to the MLS?

Dude, are you not realizing that if these restrictions force great young players to a league we can't watch, there will be nothing left for the NHL to market?



The Kings are as equal a pathetic market as the Devils, so that point is moot, and if you're honestly insinuating that the NHL actually dictates where a player can and/or does sign, I've got nothing left to add to this discussion except this:

[/QUOTE]

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I'm sorry - come again? So you don't think it should make sense that the NHL's leading scorer since 2002 would be coveted enough for a team to want to lock him up long term? Are ya serious?

That's not the case here – you're taking two very different variables and simply treating them as a combination – it's not fair to the discussion. There's a discernible difference between a players value and a players worth –*in this case, worth is determined by market demand, where as value is determined off market value. In Kovalchuks case, his market value is worth the same (if not more) as the Ovechkin's of the league, however his market demand is low. If the LA Kings and NJ Devils are the only teams competing for his services (in the NHL), and the Kings aren't willing to pay him $10M a season and the Devils aren't willing to pay him $10M a season, he isn't getting $10M a season, regardless of whether you, he, or Jay Grossman think he is worth it – the only way he'd get it is by defecting to the KHL where SKA St. Petersburg would gladly pay it to him.

When I said the quality of the player has no bearing on the type of contract he should/would/is [be] allowed to sign, what I meant was in the case that the player is signing a "retirement" contract a la Kovalchuk, his skill level should have no bearing on that contract being allowed or disallowed – retirement contracts are retirement contracts, and though it's not possible to unequivocally prove a team did in fact factor in retirement into the contract, it's more than plausible to presume a player singing a deal to his 44th birthday isn't likely to play to it when the average retirement age in the NHL is 38.

Well, then, let's recap:

The team - wanted to sign him for 17 years, $100 million.
The player - wanted to sign for 17 years, $100 million.
The agent - wanted him to sign for 17 years, $100 million.

Isn't is feasible to think that a 42-, 43-, or 44-year old Kovalchuk will only be worth $750K?

Not the point. A 42-, 43- or 44-year old Kovalchuk may only be worth $750,000, but in the context of signing a deal that sees his annual value drop with the assumed intentions that he wouldn't be playing those years regardless, he, the team and his agent are all circumventing the salary cap. The same applies (or should have) to Hossa and Pronger, as well.

So David Beckham is no longer marketable in the UK?

Would one of the UK posters please comment on whether Beckham is still a marketable commodity since he jumped ship to the MLS?

Oh, I never said money can't be made off them, I implied money shouldn't be made off them, especially when their loyalty is what's in question. If the KHL wants to capitalize on Kovalchuk, by all means – he'd belong to them in that case anyway, but a player leaving the NHL for more money because no teams were capable of paying him what he requested here being advertised for by the same league is ludicrous.

Dude, are you not realizing that if these restrictions force great young players to a league we can't watch, there will be nothing left for the NHL to market?

If that's the case, explain Mike Richards, Alex Ovechkin, Sidney Crosby and all the other young and budding stars who signed reasonable deals with their respective teams to remain here, and who's name sales far outweigh that of Kovalchuk. It's hard enough selling foreigners to a market that's historically catered to hard-nosed North Americans as it is – the last thing they need is to cater to their greed as well.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

According to various reports, relatively enigmatic free agent Alexander Frolov is set to sign a contract with the New York Rangers in the coming days, as soon as tomorow.

With the lack of offensive the team suffers from, Frolov, though enigmatic, is an extremely talented player who should compliment soon-to-be second-line center Artem Anisimov well, though it's also possible he simply slides up to play along side stop-gap Erik Christensen and superstar Marián Gáborík.

No word on term yet, but it's said the two sides have agreed in principle barring a fall through on term or salary.