"Mom, Dad. I think I'm gay!"

[LSN80]

I was really hoping not to have to revisit this thread, but I feel like I have no choice here. The ignorance you display here is among the worst Ive ever seen in my time here in the CL. For the record, the term is "homosexual", not gay, ******, homo, or whatever other word you chooce to use to jude and stereotye a homosexual as. You're one of those people that if a woman for some reason unbeknownest to me decides to marry you and you have children, I sincerely hope they turn out to be homsexuals. How would you handle them there? By beating the piss out of them when they leaned in to give daddy a kiss on the cheek because he was "sexually harrassing you." Ignorant bastard. Rant over, on to your post.

Well I have. One of the gays who I know swears by gay. He looks down on straight people almost. He would tell you he is nothing but gay. Then why did he have sex with a 9/10 girl. I put emphasis on the 9/10because I think that if they are gay there are certain girls they would still do. What about my earlier post where a guy at my work who I talked to and he eventually got married to a woman. For years he had been swearing by gay and where is he now.

Swears by gay? Like he's pledging allegiance to his country or a lodge of some sort? Dude, this is a sexual orientation, not some exclusive club you receive an invite to and decide one day to join because you think it sounds fun.

About your earlier post. Ive said earlier where Ive met and been friends with women who have been dicked over by guys and formed emotional attachments with women, and were in relationships with them the next thing you knew. There's some type of interwoven fabric into the cloth of some people's sexuality that allows them to go either way. The woman she was(and still is with) has never been anything but a lesbian, by her own account, and she's 34. Explain that away.

Maybe I got carried away with the programmed this way but I still think it happens. Maybe not with all gays but I never said it did. Like if they have a dad they hate they might be gay to get back on him. It happens.

What a way to seek revenge on a parent man. Seriously? By choosing to become romantically involved with a person they arent attracted to just to piss off daddy? "Yeah, daddy grounded me for a month, so I think I'll go suck a dude's dick." If they truly are straight, who are they really punishing here? How is it not worse for them then it is for their parent(s)? Im straight as can be and disliked my parents immensely at times growing up, but the thought of doing something like that would be beyond anything I could fathom? Why? Because I have no attraction to men. None. Second theory debunked.

My "programmed this way" comments should of been put as revnge or gay for the sake of it.

Really? For the sake of it? For the sake of what? What is a person choosing by willlingly changing one of the most significant things that makes them who they are just because they're angry, or to prove a point? They're hurting themselves most on every level. I defy you to tell me differently.

Well I have never seen a gay grampa couple. Of course they exist but I asked when was the last time you saw one. You can find anyone on the internet. You could find a guy who only has sex with dogs if you wanted. I never saw a gay older couple.

I have. Hamler gave an example of someone he's never met. How about 72 year old George Takei of Star Wars fame, whose been with his partner Brad Altman of 18 years? Let me give you an example from my own personal life.

My first job was at a convenience store. Every day, a homosexual couple that were 62 and 64 respectively came into the store to buy cigarettes. They were nice guys, and i talked to them frequently. One day, one of the men came in alone. As I was waiting on him, his eyes began to well up with tears. I asked him what was wrong, and he told me he had just come from his partner's funeral. You want to tell me that had something to do with revenge, programming, or defying normal stereotypes? Those were real freaking emotions from someone who genuinely loved his partner. People who engage in sexual activity with dogs are committing beastiality, a crime, and most likely have a severe mental disorder. And you're lumping them together in the same paragraph? Are you friggin kidding me? Damn dude, you're really digging your hole here. Ill continue in a bit.

 

[Pole Smoker]

No, Homo means same. Homosexual means same sex. He would obviously be bisexual if he would still do said girl. Hence the word Bi--as in 2.



Well he was obviously in some sort of phase. There's no doubt the dude is probably still attracted to other men. He's probably too bisexual.



WHAT?!

So now gays are gay to get revenge on their father for leaving them or some shit? Wow. I'm not even adressing this. Moving on.



What is your point here? Have you seen a billion dollars? Does it exist just because you haven't seen it? There are plenty of gayer older couples, just because you have saw any, doesn't mean they aren't there.



So they take advantage of being harrassed and picked on for being gay in your school? No right minded individual would do this.



Ok, first, I didn't twist shit. I know what you said. I simply responded to it. You're narrow minded because your stereotyping a certain"race" of people just like blacks were treeated back in the 1960s. I explained myself pretty well there. Your narrow minded by stereotyping homosexuals based upon on or two expiriences.



Your rights? What about their rights to hit on whomever they feel like hitting on? Just like you'd hit on a girl even if she was so not into you. Your the one being disrespectful to their rights. They have the right to make out in public and do whatever they feel is necissary to show their love.



So I guess next time a girl turns you down she should just turn around knee you in your balls and your ok with it? Gottcha.



But your giving them a negative steroetype. And yes, one of my best friends is gay. He hasn't ever hit on me. Your saying that because of a bad expirience, you don't like gays. That's not a good enough reason to not like a certain type of people when in reality, they're just like you and me. They have their way of thinking, you have yours, and I have mine.



Oh so stereotypical gays annoy you? Then whynot just say that. You do realize stereotypes aren't ever true right. That's why I said earlier we can asume all browns are terroist or blacks will mug you...because your stereotyping gays the same exact way.



Same with the straight couple making out in the movie theater or the mall. No one wants to see that. Straight or gay. But kissing...come on...



For kissing in public? Same with the blacks getting hanged for drinking in a white only water fountain in the 60s correct? See what I'm getting at? See the similarities? If you find it disgusting, then don't look... I'm sure they might find it disgusting when you make out with a girl in public. Who's right here?



...Is horse shit.

EDIT



All of this shit. Very well done.

lmao I love you so much.

No my point was the guy was saying he was gay but then turned out not to be. Another example of the phase.

Wait you're telling me you have never heard of gays trying to lash out out at fathers. Granted it doesn't happen often but I have heard of it.

I still stand by that there are hardly any Grampa couples.

Of course they use it to their advantage I have saw it before with all the people who were gay at my high school.

Actually you did indeed "twist shit". When I said "these people" you know fine well I meant the ones that play up to being gay. You know I did not mean every gay. Don't even start your shit again about me being racist or something. Your trying to make it look like I am hating on every gay.

Oh so you're telling me it is ok to keep hitting on someone even though they have been told many times to leave them alone and they're not interested. Do you also agree it is fine to try and kiss someone on the cheek. That's complete shit if you do.

What? If a girl tells me she is not interested I will not go back to her. I certainly won't try to kiss her as well. If a girl doesn't want me or is not interested then I will leave it at that.

Again you're twisting my word. I said I don't like the gay stereotype of people. I clearly stated that I am fine with a gay if he is normal about it and is a cool guy. Am I against homosexuality? Yes. If I could it would not happen. But it does so whatever.

Once again you twisted my words. I said if they were french kissing and touching each other it would be stupid. Why? Because someone might jump them. Gays get attacked for being gay often. It happens. I was merely saying. I'm sure the guy who kisses a girl like that might get abuse but a gay couple could have a higher risk of someone saying something. I was basically saying don't shove it down people's throats. Sheeshed.

Are you bringing up that racist shit again? When did I ever say that it is ok to kill a gay?

My opinion is horseshit? Quite frankly I think the way you go about expressing your's is horseshit. You never argued against my points against you. Like when you stereotyped the gays as being "pretty cool guys". I still need to check with the fact you think it is ok to hit on a close friend's girl. Thats shit right there. You must be one terrible friend.

The way you try and make it look like I hate all gays and think gays and blacks should die tells me you don't have a proper argument. Half of what you say is lies about what I have said.

I'll make this clear for you again: If they are cool, not in my face, don't hit on me than I'm fine with them. I don't like it much but I am entitled to that. You telling me you like to watch gay men kiss. However I would never say that to a gay's face as I'm not like that.

Also I told you I am fine with hearing other opinions but the way you go about yours makes me take your opinion very lightly. You twist words, don't argue back to the points where I pointed out your mistakes and you try to make it look like I hate all gays.

Also if a gay hits on you over and over even though you have told him you are straight and are not interested every time and then he tries to sexually harass you I think he deserves the shit beaten out of him.

 

[Pole Smoker]

I was really hoping not to have to revisit this thread, but I feel like I have no choice here. The ignorance you display here is among the worst Ive ever seen in my time here in the CL. For the record, the term is "homosexual", not gay, ******, homo, or whatever other word you chooce to use to jude and stereotye a homosexual as. You're one of those people that if a woman for some reason unbeknownest to me decides to marry you and you have children, I sincerely hope they turn out to be homsexuals. How would you handle them there? By beating the piss out of them when they leaned in to give daddy a kiss on the cheek because he was "sexually harrassing you." Ignorant bastard. Rant over, on to your post.





Swears by gay? Like he's pledging allegiance to his country or a lodge of some sort? Dude, this is a sexual orientation, not some exclusive club you receive an invite to and decide one day to join because you think it sounds fun.

About your earlier post. Ive said earlier where Ive met and been friends with women who have been dicked over by guys and formed emotional attachments with women, and were in relationships with them the next thing you knew. There's some type of interwoven fabric into the cloth of some people's sexuality that allows them to go either way. The woman she was(and still is with) has never been anything but a lesbian, by her own account, and she's 34. Explain that away.



What a way to seek revenge on a parent man. Seriously? By choosing to become romantically involved with a person they arent attracted to just to piss off daddy? "Yeah, daddy grounded me for a month, so I think I'll go suck a dude's dick." If they truly are straight, who are they really punishing here? How is it not worse for them then it is for their parent(s)? Im straight as can be and disliked my parents immensely at times growing up, but the thought of doing something like that would be beyond anything I could fathom? Why? Because I have no attraction to men. None. Second theory debunked.



Really? For the sake of it? For the sake of what? What is a person choosing by willlingly changing one of the most significant things that makes them who they are just because they're angry, or to prove a point? They're hurting themselves most on every level. I defy you to tell me differently.




I have. Hamler gave an example of someone he's never met. How about 72 year old George Takei of Star Wars fame, whose been with his partner Brad Altman of 18 years? Let me give you an example from my own personal life.

My first job was at a convenience store. Every day, a homosexual couple that were 62 and 64 respectively came into the store to buy cigarettes. They were nice guys, and i talked to them frequently. One day, one of the men came in alone. As I was waiting on him, his eyes began to well up with tears. I asked him what was wrong, and he told me he had just come from his partner's funeral. You want to tell me that had something to do with revenge, programming, or defying normal stereotypes? Those were real freaking emotions from someone who genuinely loved his partner. People who engage in sexual activity with dogs are committing beastiality, a crime, and most likely have a severe mental disorder. And you're lumping them together in the same paragraph? Are you friggin kidding me? Damn dude, you're really digging your hole here. Ill continue in a bit.

I think you have been reading to many of Hamburglar's posts.

I never put dogs and gays in the same group of people. I merely said you can find anyone on the internet. I said you can find someone that has sex with dogs on the internet. I did not say they are like gays.

yes I am aware of gay Grampa's existing but I never seen one. There's all kinds of people you can find on the internet (don't twist my words here please).

When I said swears by gay I meant he says he is only gay and thinks everyone should be.

See above for the revenge part. I never said all gays are not gay in late age I merely said most are not.

Well obviously if your kid is kissing you it's different to some random gay guy.

Oh so you hope my kids are gay? That's very mature. I hope your kids eat poo. I'm so cool for saying that.

If my kid was gay and lived up to the stereotypes of gay or was in my face. I would not speak to him anymore becuase he's being an idiot.

It seems you to are trying to twist my words. Well done.

 

[LSN80]

Well High School's in the USA are different. In my school the thugs take the piss out them but they use that to their advantage to get pit of their friends that are all girls. There were a few in my high school and all of them were gay stereotype extremists.

High schools were no different 10 years ago when I was there, and Ive lived in the good ole USA my entire life. People like you would badger, harrass, and even beat up those who are different, whether they be gay or just dress different. And sure, there were some who used this to draw attention from females, but they paid for it by getting their ass kicked daily by stereotypical heterosexual extremists. Where i livede, you learned quick who was sincere and who wasn't, because of that fact.

Can you explain to me what a gay stereotypical extremist is? Is it anything like being a heterosexual stereotypical extremist? You know, the type of person who looks down on others who aren't the same as them and thinks they're better then those who aren't of the same orientation as themselves? Sound like anyone familar. Look in the damn mirror.

When I said these people I mean these people that play up to being gay. I meant the ones that have the voice and shoes etc. How am I narrow minded?

The voice? You mean the one they were born with that God gave them? Ohhhh, that voice! Because Ive met just as many straight people who sound just like "that voice" that I have homosexuals. And what, pray tell, is this "homosexual line" of shoes thats come out recently? I want to check them out! Dude, you proved your narrow mindedness right there.

I said some gays go through a phase not all. Ifyou looked at what I said later I am ok with some gays. If they don't bother me I won't bother them. If a gay is hitting on me then he's being disrespectful to my rights.

Which contradicts the fact that you said earlier that all "gays" are stereotypical homosexual extremists. Come on, man, this is too easy. Are you disrespecting the rights of a woman by hitting on her? Maybe you just have "that look". You know, the "gay" one.

Its a double standard to say that its disrespectful for a homsexual to hit on you if you've ever hit on a woman. How did you know in advance that she wasn't a lesbian? You didn't.

As a matter of fact more gays means less competition for the ladies .

Dude, just carry the attitude you have towards homosexuals around all the time and you'll never get a woman, even if you're the only straight man in the place. .

Well if I tell him I am straight and would appreciate it if he leaves me alone but then he hits on me then how on earth can you say that is ok.

Its not. Its disrespectful to you, and you make a valid point here. But have you ever hit on a woman only for her to tell you "piss off" or something of the like, only to try again with a different maneuver? Same concept. Maybe you just have "that look", and he thought if he was persistent enough, he'ld land you. Take it as a compliment.

Also I would never hit on one of my friends girl's. I don't know what kind of friend you are but I think guys that do that should think long term. If it's a true friend then how could you be such an ass to risk your friendship. Especially with some girl that is willing to let me hit on her and possibly take it further! I don't want some ho who cheats.

Ahhhh, my wife flirts innocently with my male friends all the time. It doesn't make her less of a wife, it's just who she is. Im the same way with her female friends. Taking it further would be the problem, as you said.

Yea well if they have been told not to and still do they are creeps and need to learn some respect for someone.

Like I said earlier, people are persistent. Not only homosexuals, but heterosexuals as well. Id be willing to bet you a hundred dollars that you've hit on a woman and she's brushed you off at first, but you persisted anyway. How do you think I got my wife? Persistency. She thought I was "just another jock" in college. Its no different then with a homosexual. If he shows you in some way that he's really not a creep, and digs the same things that you do, he thinks he may have a chance. Its human nature to be persistent with someone we like or find attractive.

You've never met a stereotypical gay.Lucky for some then!Actually I meant that the stereotypical gays annoy me.

You've yet to describe what the stereotypical gay is. What exactly does this person look, dress, and act like? What is it that bothers u so much about someone daring to be different then you? Is it really so hard to accept the fact that some people in this world dont act, think, and behave the same way that you do?

You say that all the homosexual people that you've met have been assholes. Have you ever stopped to consider the fact that they're "assholes" because they've spent their entire life being treated like shit by people like you who won't accept them for who they are and ridicule them for it? You know, for having "that voice", or wearing "those shoes". How dare they!

You Don't see my problem? what about the disturbing way a gay hit on me.Leaning in to kiss my cheek? Then he can get the hell away by running damn fast or take the beating of a lifetime!I am happy. i was in the right. He was just about to sexually harass me so I kicked the living sh** out him. Honestly I blacked out. I literally stomped on his face. He ruined my night. He showed no respect for me and didn't leave me alone. Next time he might think twice.

This here is sexual harrassment. No doubt about it. Its a crime. But instead of going into roid rage(you said you blacked out, common side efffect) and beating the living hell out of him, did you ever think the sensible and reasonable thing to do would be to move away from him or call the police and have his ass arrested? Ive been in far worse situations with heterosexual people and I couldn't imagine the thought of beating the piss out of them. I had a guy spit in my face once because I was out with his ex-girlfriend, he swung at me, and I restrained him. I could have easily beaten the piss out of him, and would have had far more cause then you. But because of your "stereotypical heterosexual behavior, you committed aggravated assault, far worse then the simple sexual harrassment he committed against you. You must feel so proud.

Honestly, you weren't in the right. When you stomp a defenseless person in the face, you're in the worng. What if a heterosexual woman you had no interest in were to do the same to you? Would you beat the shit out of her and stomp her face/ Because if you wouldn't, its a double standard.

All I was saying that if they are going to do a full on french kiss while touching each other they should be prepared for the consequences.
They could honestly get the sh** beat out of them for doing it.Also I do find it disgusting. My opinion. Honeastly if a gay is a normal dude I have no problem with him.

But if a straight couple were to do it, it would be normal and acceptable, correct? I don't think you have any indication as to how biased and indignant your point of view is. Just because the "consequences" of doing something outside of what you consider normal occurs, it doesn't make it wrong. It makes you wrong for taking the stance that you're better then the "offending" parties. It shows no tolerance for views or ideals outside of your own, which I find offensive. You say you have no problem with a "gay being a normal dude", but contradict yourself in the sentence before it by saying that if homosexuals make out in public, they should face the consequences. We heterosexuals make out in public all the time too, you know. What consequences should be headed our way?

It's just one of those things where you simply don't get it. Your ideal of homosexuals is that they be locked in their own homosexual community where they only interact with their own damn "kind". Your posts at least indicate as much. And that my friend, is the worst kind of ignorance and intolerance imaginable. You talk about homosexuals using different voices and wearing different shoes, and the consequences they should face for public affection. It's those types of fucking views that jump started the rise of Hitler's regime in Germany. They did away with anyone who dared to look, act, or sound different. While Im certainly not comparing you to Hitler, or the Nazi's, the points of view that you ascribe to are similar. And that angers and saddens me at the same time.

Man, I dont think Ive ever sworn this much before in a post!

 

[#hamler]

lmao I love you so much.

...and you say you hate gays...

No my point was the guy was saying he was gay but then turned out not to be. Another example of the phase.

People don't just turn. Maybe he realized he couldn't settle down and have a reeal family/life while being gay. So he married. Like I said, Bisexual. I'd put your life on the line to say he's still attracted to the same sex.

Wait you're telling me you have never heard of gays trying to lash out out at fathers. Granted it doesn't happen often but I have heard of it.

You said gays try and get revenge? That's their reason for being gay. Which is bullshit. Yes, I have never heard anyone wanting to be gay simply for revenge.

I still stand by that there are hardly any Grampa couples.

Why? LSN, myself and others have disaproved this dumb theory.

Of course they use it to their advantage I have saw it before with all the people who were gay at my high school.

What exactly is the advantage of being gay? When I've stated gays are being harrassed day in and day out for being homosexuals. Who would want that?

Actually you did indeed "twist shit". When I said "these people" you know fine well I meant the ones that play up to being gay. You know I did not mean every gay.

When you say "these people" you mean "these people". There's no way around it. That's not twisting shit.

Don't even start your shit again about me being racist or something. Your trying to make it look like I am hating on every gay.

You are. You said they are disgusting plenty of times in several ways. About being racist, I know you're not, I'm comparing your HATE for gays to the Hate for blacks in the 60s. Very narrow minded and ignorant.

Oh so you're telling me it is ok to keep hitting on someone even though they have been told many times to leave them alone and they're not interested. Do you also agree it is fine to try and kiss someone on the cheek. That's complete shit if you do.

Ok, yeah its not right. Sorry about that one. But say it's not right for anyone to do that not just gays. It would be no more right for a girl to do that than a homosexual to do that.

Again you're twisting my word. I said I don't like the gay stereotype of people. I clearly stated that I am fine with a gay if he is normal about it and is a cool guy. Am I against homosexuality? Yes. If I could it would not happen. But it does so whatever.

Which is why I call you ignorrent and compare you to a racist.

Once again you twisted my words. I said if they were french kissing and touching each other it would be stupid. Why? Because someone might jump them. Gays get attacked for being gay often. It happens. I was merely saying. I'm sure the guy who kisses a girl like that might get abuse but a gay couple could have a higher risk of someone saying something. I was basically saying don't shove it down people's throats.

You said ealier it was disgusting. You gave your opinion oin the matter and said it was digusting. That's not twisting your words.

Back to what you were saying ealier, why would someone risk all of this to be gay when they really aren't? And what's being shoved down people's throat? Them making out in public is the sme as if a girl and guy were making out in public. If I saw a gay getting harrassed physically or mentally, I'd no doubt help out. They deserve every right you and I share or any other straight human being. They're not different people.

Are you bringing up that racist shit again? When did I ever say that it is ok to kill a gay?

Your not getting the comparrision. Comparing your hate for homosexuals to hate for blacks in the 60s. Both representing ignorence.

My opinion is horseshit?

Very.

Quite frankly I think the way you go about expressing your's is horseshit. You never argued against my points against you. Like when you stereotyped the gays as being "pretty cool guys". I still need to check with the fact you think it is ok to hit on a close friend's girl. Thats shit right there. You must be one terrible friend.

Well, I've given you examples and went against everything you're saying. I hate the fact when someone sees a certain type of people as beneath them. Your hate for gays is clearly an example of ignorrence especially when you have no reason to hate gays other than "they annoy me" and "a gay guy licked my butthole once". Other than that, you've failed to give any type of clear reasons as to why you disaprove homosexuals

The way you try and make it look like I hate all gays and think gays and blacks should die tells me you don't have a proper argument. Half of what you say is lies about what I have said.

Nope. I've respnded to your "arguments". Again, I didn't say you hated blacks. I know you don't. Just comparing the two hates...hope you get that.

I'll make this clear for you again: If they are cool, not in my face, don't hit on me than I'm fine with them. I don't like it much but I am entitled to that. You telling me you like to watch gay men kiss. However I would never say that to a gay's face as I'm not like that.

Wait what? I'm straight. But I'm clearly not ignorent and gay people have every right to do what ever just as you do. If one can't come to you and ask you to date, then you should get pissed when a girl does that. I agree, no one should force themselves on you, GAY or STRAIGHT.

Also I told you I am fine with hearing other opinions but the way you go about yours makes me take your opinion very lightly. You twist words, don't argue back to the points where I pointed out your mistakes and you try to make it look like I hate all gays.

Show me where I've done this please. If I didn't argue back, then who the hell were you responding to. And when saying you hate all gays when you clearly stereotyped them all earlier.

Also if a gay hits on you over and over even though you have told him you are straight and are not interested every time and then he tries to sexually harass you I think he deserves the shit beaten out of him.

Same with a girl correct? If your gonna get all pissed about it, then you should be pissed when a girl does it to you. Gays have every right to do whatever every other human has the right too. Now I know they shouldn't force themselves on you, nor should anyone else.

 

[Pole Smoker]

High schools were no different 10 years ago when I was there, and Ive lived in the good ole USA my entire life. People like you would badger, harrass, and even beat up those who are different, whether they be gay or just dress different. And sure, there were some who used this to draw attention from females, but they paid for it by getting their ass kicked daily by stereotypical heterosexual extremists. Where i livede, you learned quick who was sincere and who wasn't, because of that fact.

Can you explain to me what a gay stereotypical extremist is? Is it anything like being a heterosexual stereotypical extremist? You know, the type of person who looks down on others who aren't the same as them and thinks they're better then those who aren't of the same orientation as themselves? Sound like anyone familar. Look in the damn mirror.



The voice? You mean the one they were born with that God gave them? Ohhhh, that voice! Because Ive met just as many straight people who sound just like "that voice" that I have homosexuals. And what, pray tell, is this "homosexual line" of shoes thats come out recently? I want to check them out! Dude, you proved your narrow mindedness right there.




Which contradicts the fact that you said earlier that all "gays" are stereotypical homosexual extremists. Come on, man, this is too easy. Are you disrespecting the rights of a woman by hitting on her? Maybe you just have "that look". You know, the "gay" one.

Its a double standard to say that its disrespectful for a homsexual to hit on you if you've ever hit on a woman. How did you know in advance that she wasn't a lesbian? You didn't.


Dude, just carry the attitude you have towards homosexuals around all the time and you'll never get a woman, even if you're the only straight man in the place. .





Its not. Its disrespectful to you, and you make a valid point here. But have you ever hit on a woman only for her to tell you "piss off" or something of the like, only to try again with a different maneuver? Same concept. Maybe you just have "that look", and he thought if he was persistent enough, he'ld land you. Take it as a compliment.



Ahhhh, my wife flirts innocently with my male friends all the time. It doesn't make her less of a wife, it's just who she is. Im the same way with her female friends. Taking it further would be the problem, as you said.



Like I said earlier, people are persistent. Not only homosexuals, but heterosexuals as well. Id be willing to bet you a hundred dollars that you've hit on a woman and she's brushed you off at first, but you persisted anyway. How do you think I got my wife? Persistency. She thought I was "just another jock" in college. Its no different then with a homosexual. If he shows you in some way that he's really not a creep, and digs the same things that you do, he thinks he may have a chance. Its human nature to be persistent with someone we like or find attractive.



You've yet to describe what the stereotypical gay is. What exactly does this person look, dress, and act like? What is it that bothers u so much about someone daring to be different then you? Is it really so hard to accept the fact that some people in this world dont act, think, and behave the same way that you do?

You say that all the homosexual people that you've met have been assholes. Have you ever stopped to consider the fact that they're "assholes" because they've spent their entire life being treated like shit by people like you who won't accept them for who they are and ridicule them for it? You know, for having "that voice", or wearing "those shoes". How dare they!





This here is sexual harrassment. No doubt about it. Its a crime. But instead of going into roid rage(you said you blacked out, common side efffect) and beating the living hell out of him, did you ever think the sensible and reasonable thing to do would be to move away from him or call the police and have his ass arrested? Ive been in far worse situations with heterosexual people and I couldn't imagine the thought of beating the piss out of them. I had a guy spit in my face once because I was out with his ex-girlfriend, he swung at me, and I restrained him. I could have easily beaten the piss out of him, and would have had far more cause then you. But because of your "stereotypical heterosexual behavior, you committed aggravated assault, far worse then the simple sexual harrassment he committed against you. You must feel so proud.

Honestly, you weren't in the right. When you stomp a defenseless person in the face, you're in the worng. What if a heterosexual woman you had no interest in were to do the same to you? Would you beat the shit out of her and stomp her face/ Because if you wouldn't, its a double standard.







But if a straight couple were to do it, it would be normal and acceptable, correct? I don't think you have any indication as to how biased and indignant your point of view is. Just because the "consequences" of doing something outside of what you consider normal occurs, it doesn't make it wrong. It makes you wrong for taking the stance that you're better then the "offending" parties. It shows no tolerance for views or ideals outside of your own, which I find offensive. You say you have no problem with a "gay being a normal dude", but contradict yourself in the sentence before it by saying that if homosexuals make out in public, they should face the consequences. We heterosexuals make out in public all the time too, you know. What consequences should be headed our way?

It's just one of those things where you simply don't get it. Your ideal of homosexuals is that they be locked in their own homosexual community where they only interact with their own damn "kind". Your posts at least indicate as much. And that my friend, is the worst kind of ignorance and intolerance imaginable. You talk about homosexuals using different voices and wearing different shoes, and the consequences they should face for public affection. It's those types of fucking views that jump started the rise of Hitler's regime in Germany. They did away with anyone who dared to look, act, or sound different. While Im certainly not comparing you to Hitler, or the Nazi's, the points of view that you ascribe to are similar. And that angers and saddens me at the same time.

Man, I dont think Ive ever sworn this much before in a post!

First of I would like to say please stop reading into every little thing I say. You guys twist everything to suit yourselves.

Right there. In the first paragraph. LSN80 giving me a paragraph I do not need to read. I am from Scotland. I am saying that the USA schools are different. Again I am from Scotland. Says it in location.

Again can you actually read my posts. I have explained so many times what the stereotypical gay is now. Long hair, gay ass shoes, skinny jeans, t-shirt showing their chest etc etc. Happy? Also straight people are usually normal about being straight. Of course there are hundreds of different types of straight people.But these stereotypical gay's are all the same.

When I was referring to the voice I was meaning one they put on. Have you honestly never heard the forced gay voice. It's energetic, high pitched, etc etc.

I have no idea what crap you are talking. If I hit on a woman and she's not interested then I will move on. It's what you do you know. I have said that before too. Damn.

How is it disrespectful to hit on a woman if I don't know what she is. I have clearly said it is disresoectful for gays to hit on straight people if they KNOW they are straight. Please read my posts more carefully.

Oh so now you're saying I'll never get a woman. Your judging that of an internet forum you know.

If a woman has told me to piss off because she's not interested then that's exactly what I'll do.I have "the look"? Oh so even though I have told him I'm not interested it is still ok because I have "the look". I may have taken it as a bit of a compliment the first 2 times but after 6 times and attempted sexual harassment how can I possibly take that as a compliment.

Your wife can do whatever I don't care.

Read my posts. I told him no interest 6 times. 6 TIMES. I would never hit on a woman more than once. It's pretty disrespectful if I do more actually.

Your damn right I am proud for kicking the shit out of him. High five. I could not move away he would've followed.

If she had hit on me 6 times and tried to sexually harass me your damn right I'd kick the shit out of her.

READ MY POSTS. I never said that they SHOULD face the consequences. I said it is more likely. A simple heads up.

Ummm I think you just did compare me to Hitler. READ MY POSTS. I never said they should face consequences I said they could. I am not explaining the stereotypical gay again.

 

[Pole Smoker]

...and you say you hate gays...



People don't just turn. Maybe he realized he couldn't settle down and have a reeal family/life while being gay. So he married. Like I said, Bisexual. I'd put your life on the line to say he's still attracted to the same sex.



You said gays try and get revenge? That's their reason for being gay. Which is bullshit. Yes, I have never heard anyone wanting to be gay simply for revenge.



Why? LSN, myself and others have disaproved this dumb theory.



What exactly is the advantage of being gay? When I've stated gays are being harrassed day in and day out for being homosexuals. Who would want that?



When you say "these people" you mean "these people". There's no way around it. That's not twisting shit.



You are. You said they are disgusting plenty of times in several ways. About being racist, I know you're not, I'm comparing your HATE for gays to the Hate for blacks in the 60s. Very narrow minded and ignorant.



Ok, yeah its not right. Sorry about that one. But say it's not right for anyone to do that not just gays. It would be no more right for a girl to do that than a homosexual to do that.



Which is why I call you ignorrent and compare you to a racist.



You said ealier it was disgusting. You gave your opinion oin the matter and said it was digusting. That's not twisting your words.

Back to what you were saying ealier, why would someone risk all of this to be gay when they really aren't? And what's being shoved down people's throat? Them making out in public is the sme as if a girl and guy were making out in public. If I saw a gay getting harrassed physically or mentally, I'd no doubt help out. They deserve every right you and I share or any other straight human being. They're not different people.



Your not getting the comparrision. Comparing your hate for homosexuals to hate for blacks in the 60s. Both representing ignorence.



Very.



Well, I've given you examples and went against everything you're saying. I hate the fact when someone sees a certain type of people as beneath them. Your hate for gays is clearly an example of ignorrence especially when you have no reason to hate gays other than "they annoy me" and "a gay guy licked my butthole once". Other than that, you've failed to give any type of clear reasons as to why you disaprove homosexuals



Nope. I've respnded to your "arguments". Again, I didn't say you hated blacks. I know you don't. Just comparing the two hates...hope you get that.



Wait what? I'm straight. But I'm clearly not ignorent and gay people have every right to do what ever just as you do. If one can't come to you and ask you to date, then you should get pissed when a girl does that. I agree, no one should force themselves on you, GAY or STRAIGHT.



Show me where I've done this please. If I didn't argue back, then who the hell were you responding to. And when saying you hate all gays when you clearly stereotyped them all earlier.



Same with a girl correct? If your gonna get all pissed about it, then you should be pissed when a girl does it to you. Gays have every right to do whatever every other human has the right too. Now I know they shouldn't force themselves on you, nor should anyone else.

You understand sarcasm so well.

Nope.He told me he is fully straight. Next.

It happens.

How many gay Grampa's you seen compared to younger gay's?

To get self pity.

Yes "these people" as in the stereotypical gay's. I hate them. Despise them. They've made my life less enjoyable thus far.

Yea but if it's a girl then it's still possible. If I am straight and he is gay then there's no chance. They try to turn you gay. Their pieces of shit.

Why yes I do find it disgusting. Gay kissing would disgust me. They can do it but I won't be pleased.I won't run up and beat the shit out of them but I'll have to turn my head in disgust.

If they are letting me know they are gay with their style and voice and are hitting on me then they are shoving it down my throat.

READ MY POSTS. I hate the stereotypical gay that hits on me. If a gay is a cool guy and doesn't hit on me or shove it down his throat then cool. Wow deja vu.

Every opinion is valid son.

I disapprove of the stereotypical homosexuals for many reasons I have written before. I will add though that they are usually feminine, talk crap and are so happy and friendly it's creepy.

Well do you still think it is ok to class most homosexuals as "pretty cool dudes". That's a pretty big stereotype to me. What about hitting on a good friend's girl. Do you actually approve of that? If you were to get her then she's a cheating ho anyway. Your a crap friend if you would do such a thing.

None should force themselves on you. Especially gay's though.

I have said time and time again that not all gay's were like this. Yes I was talking to you. Look two paragraphs above. There's my questions for you. At least I did not stereotype every single gay in the world. You contradict yourself so bad there.

Like I said earlier if a girl hits on me 6 times and then tries to sexually harass me then I'm going to kick the shit out of her. Fact.

Read my post clearly please

 

[Ultra Awesome]

Mozz, I respect you as a fellow CL poster but you pretty much misunderstood everything I said.

There doesn't need to be a particular gene inside of you in order to prove you are actually gay. Being gay doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with genetics.

Hold on, man.You’re assuming quite a lot here. First, I never said that in order to be gay, there had to be a gay gene. No. I only stated a brief history lesson of a certain theory that was disproven by later studies.

Motherfucker, of course a gay gene isn’t the cause of someone being gay—thinking that way is asinine. What I said was that the gay gene is non-existent.

Science hasn't disproved anything - it only eliminated possible hypotheses.

Disprove – The act of proving something false. Hamer’s theory: genetic marker in the X chromosome is connected to male homosexuality; it is xq28. Later studies proves Hamer’s theory false.

Yup. Pretty sure Science disproved that right there.

You have to understand how the human mind works [ ] before you jump to slippery slope conclusions that a gay gene would require a child/animal attraction gene. Our biological makeup provides instinct to our brains that make us want to reproduce. Homosexuality is shown all over the natural world; it's simply not understood. But you can't make the decision that just because a certain aspect of the study was disproved, that homosexuality essentially doesn't exist. That's remarkably ignorant, and you absolutely should approach the subject with a different viewpoint.

Shit, man. Is that really how my argument is coming out to you? When the fuck did I ever say homosexuality did not exist? Of course it exists. The key difference is that the GAY GENE does not exist. The reason people become gay is NOT the result of a gay gene – but that of other aspects of life such as childhood, environmental factors, and psychological factors. Although what specifically, we’re still not completely clear of.

But who are you to make that decision? You, as a straight man, don't get to decide whether or not homosexuals are born gay or not, nor do you get to cite reasons for homosexuality without any peer-reviewed scientific studies on the subject. What you're saying right now is pure conjecture based on a narrow-minded world view.

Uh, nooo. Let’s review on what I have said so far, shall we? The gay gene is non-existent. There is no evidence that points to homosexuality being the result of that of genetics. If that were really the case, I’m pretty sure DNA microarray technology would have found it by now. But last I can remember, it hasn’t found anything to PROVE that gays are born gay. So therefore, it remains to be seen that there really is any hard evidence to clearly pinpoint that gays ARE born gay.

Gays become homosexual as a result of environmental factors/psychological factors that they have faced throughout their childhood. When one is a child, their mind is like a sponge. They have the ability to absorb so much aspects of life and thus adapt to it. Whatever viruses this child gains is what inevitably influences their thinking and thus becomes the reality that they live. Over time, the child better adapts to such reality and they start to see it as what is “right” or what is “true”. When everything is said and done, these “rights” and “wrongs” become the morals that they live by. Homosexuality becomes one of these rights or truths. And thus, homosexuality comes into play.

Sometimes, however, one is tired of being that way as they are tired of being ridiculed for who they are and how they think. But just because they do not choose to be or act this way does not mean that they were born this way. Such ideology is false adnd nothing more than a fallacy.

Sure, there are environmental factors that cause emotional or mental problems that can cause homosexuality, and I think that's one of the main causes for homosexuality in today's society, but you have to understand that this is also the main cause for pedophilia and zoophilia, which brings us back to the argument that maybe pedophiles and zoophiles could also be born that way.

But they’re not. While, sure, it’s a mystery as to why pedophiles etc would ever think to think the way they do; however, just because they think a certain way does not mean that that is the way that they were born. Why? Because there is no proof to show that such reality is true. As of right now, it is but a mere misconception that people are starting to form in their minds and starting to believe.

Man, you’re telling me I should first learn how the human mind works before speaking?... hahaha, if only you knew…

You can't put the blame on somebody simply because you dislike the way they carry out their lives.

But I’m not. And neither am I saying that I dislike the way homosexuals live their life. You’re just assuming something that isn’t there.

A couple of disclaimers before anyone reads on:
-Pedophiles hurt children, and they should be distanced from society as much as humanly possible.
-Zoophiles hurt animals, and they should be distances from animals as much as possible, if not society all together.
-I believe these people should be rehabilitated.

Homosexuals, however, practice a form of sex that is consensual, between legal adults. Homosexual sex is absolutely no different from straight sex in the amount of third-party people it effects (exactly zero).

Cool.

This contradicts everything you just said. You went from, "science has disproved the argument that homosexuality is not a choice," to "it has nothing to do with genetics."

Again with the assuming… Motherfucker, I stayed with the same argument all the way. The problem here is that YOU misunderstood the meaning behind the context of my words. Throughout my entire argument, I said that the gay gene was non-existent. Gays weren’t born gay. Being gay has nothing to do with genetics. Gays are gay because of psychological/environmental factors they face through childhood. And lastly, you assume to much.

What I find especially funny here is that you even agreed with me in the beginning that I was saying that genetics was not the result of homosexuality. And now you’re saying I jumped theories from: science has disproved the argument that homosexuality is not a choice.

If you don’t understand what I mean, I’ll show you right now:

There doesn't need to be a particular gene inside of you in order to prove you are actually gay. Being gay doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with genetics.

This contradicts everything you just said. You went from, "science has disproved the argument that homosexuality is not a choice," to "it has nothing to do with genetics."

Why? Pedophilia comes from emotional and mental factors out of the person's control. It would be hypocritical of you to put the blame on a pedophile and not a homosexual or a zoophile.

Ehm… let’s save this topic for a different time, shall we?


Mozz, I respect you as a great poster. But please try to understand what I say before you start trying to make me look stupid because, well…it didn’t work. Better luck with someone else, dude..

 

[#hamler]

You understand sarcasm so well.

Doesn't go so well over the internet.

Nope.He told me he is fully straight. Next.

He bullshitting you. People don't just stop being gay.

It happens.

Please explain to me, or hell, find some website that proves gays are gay for revenge.

How many gay Grampa's you seen compared to younger gay's?

Well, on the count of how accepting people are now toward gays and lesbians have changed a lot since then. I'm sure there are more gay older men than you think.

To get self pity.

Self pitty for being gay?

Yes "these people" as in the stereotypical gay's. I hate them. Despise them. They've made my life less enjoyable thus far.

Good. I'm glad they have. I still don't get why though. Just because of one bad expirience.

Yea but if it's a girl then it's still possible. If I am straight and he is gay then there's no chance. They try to turn you gay. Their pieces of shit.

Since when have gays try and get others to join them?

Why yes I do find it disgusting. Gay kissing would disgust me. They can do it but I won't be pleased.I won't run up and beat the shit out of them but I'll have to turn my head in disgust.

That's good.

If they are letting me know they are gay with their style and voice and are hitting on me then they are shoving it down my throat.

What? So I could say scottish people are being shoved down my throat because of their voice and what not? They're not being shoved down your throat in any way.

READ MY POSTS. I hate the stereotypical gay that hits on me. If a gay is a cool guy and doesn't hit on me or shove it down his throat then cool. Wow deja vu.

You clearly said you don't like them. You even said you dissaprove of them. Them as a whole.

Do I like gays?
Hell no.

This^

Every opinion is valid son.

I disapprove of the stereotypical homosexuals for many reasons I have written before. I will add though that they are usually feminine, talk crap and are so happy and friendly it's creepy.

See above. You stated you hated gays... you say you disaprove of stereotypical gays but say you dont like gays but then go on to say you think some are cool. Pick one.

Well do you still think it is ok to class most homosexuals as "pretty cool dudes". That's a pretty big stereotype to me.

Yes because unlike you, I'm not giving them a negative stereotype like you are.

What about hitting on a good friend's girl. Do you actually approve of that? If you were to get her then she's a cheating ho anyway. Your a crap friend if you would do such a thing.

Show me where I say this. I said would you hit on a friends girl?

None should force themselves on you. Especially gay's though.

Why especially gays? They have every right a girl does when hitting on a guy. That's my main problem right there. Your not giving gays simple human rights. Yes, they should not force themselves on you, but to give some else the right to do something but not the other is wrong.

I have said time and time again that not all gay's were like this. Yes I was talking to you. Look two paragraphs above. There's my questions for you. At least I did not stereotype every single gay in the world. You contradict yourself so bad there.

Actually I didn't. I said negative stereotype. Which is worse, to negative stereotype or positive stereotype.

Like I said earlier if a girl hits on me 6 times and then tries to sexually harass me then I'm going to kick the shit out of her. Fact.

I failed to see that.

Read my post clearly please

Did. And I answered clearly.

 

[Pole Smoker]

Doesn't go so well over the internet.



He bullshitting you. People don't just stop being gay.



Please explain to me, or hell, find some website that proves gays are gay for revenge.



Well, on the count of how accepting people are now toward gays and lesbians have changed a lot since then. I'm sure there are more gay older men than you think.



Self pitty for being gay?



Good. I'm glad they have. I still don't get why though. Just because of one bad expirience.



Since when have gays try and get others to join them?



That's good.



What? So I could say scottish people are being shoved down my throat because of their voice and what not? They're not being shoved down your throat in any way.



You clearly said you don't like them. You even said you dissaprove of them. Them as a whole.



This^



See above. You stated you hated gays... you say you disaprove of stereotypical gays but say you dont like gays but then go on to say you think some are cool. Pick one.



Yes because unlike you, I'm not giving them a negative stereotype like you are.



Show me where I say this. I said would you hit on a friends girl?



Why especially gays? They have every right a girl does when hitting on a guy. That's my main problem right there. Your not giving gays simple human rights. Yes, they should not force themselves on you, but to give some else the right to do something but not the other is wrong.



Actually I didn't. I said negative stereotype. Which is worse, to negative stereotype or positive stereotype.



I failed to see that.



Did. And I answered clearly.

Your back gorgeous. nah I kid lol

How are you so sure?

I'll do that later it's almost 2am here and I am very tired.

So it's not something they can't control?

No self pity for the abuse.

Oh so you're happy someone's life is less enjoyable? Ok then... Also I have had many bad experiences with gay people not just one. Do you want more experiences? What about the gay guy that had sex with a slow guy from my school?

Since when you ask. Forever man. Wake up. You fail to see this. Gay's try to hit on straight all the time.Thus trying to get them to be gay.

I do find it disgusting yes. Would you gaze on and watch? No. I know they can do this and whatever. Do it. It's just I won't enjoy seeing it.

Oh my god did the legendary Hamburglar just mention Scotland. I feel so starstruck.

When I say shoved down my throat I mean trying to let me know they are gay as soon as they meet me. Like when I meet a fellow business man who is gay. They try and let me know by the way they talk.

I meant to say I disapprove with stereotypical gay's. For that I am sorry man.

This^.

I never said I think some are cool.I don't think their gayness is cool. I think if they are normal, cool guys and don't shove it down my throats then they are ok. I will never understand them though.I certainly won't look down on those ones

Oh so as long as it is a positive stereotype it is ok. Your bending the rules now.

You asked if I would hit on a friend's girl if I really liked her.Then you replied you would which suggests you're saying in a normal situation said person would hit on the girl including yourself.

Because they are into the opposite thing. That means there is no chance.If a girl hits on a guy she knows is straight then fine. Nature at it's best.But if a guy was to hit on a guy even though he knew he was straight is wrong because he is disrespecting him.

Any stereotype is stupid because they are not true. You say most gay guys are "pretty cool dudes". How can you say that then accuse me of putting gays in a stereotype.

You fail to see it. Check post 31 and remember: Please read my posts carefully.

Thank you for answering clearly for the first time

I am willing to listen to your arguments but you put them over too hard and take this thread really seriously.

I got a question for you: What would you have done in my situation with that gay guy that tried to touch me?

Great discussion here by the way lol

 

[SalvIsWin]

The key difference is that the GAY GENE does not exist. The reason people become gay is NOT the result of a gay gene – but that of other aspects of life such as childhood, environmental factors, and psychological factors. Although what specifically, we’re still not completely clear of.

Uh, nooo. Let’s review on what I have said so far, shall we? The gay gene is non-existent. There is no evidence that points to homosexuality being the result of that of genetics. If that were really the case, I’m pretty sure DNA microarray technology would have found it by now. But last I can remember, it hasn’t found anything to PROVE that gays are born gay. So therefore, it remains to be seen that there really is any hard evidence to clearly pinpoint that gays ARE born gay.

Gays become homosexual as a result of environmental factors/psychological factors that they have faced throughout their childhood. When one is a child, their mind is like a sponge. They have the ability to absorb so much aspects of life and thus adapt to it. Whatever viruses this child gains is what inevitably influences their thinking and thus becomes the reality that they live. Over time, the child better adapts to such reality and they start to see it as what is “right” or what is “true”. When everything is said and done, these “rights” and “wrongs” become the morals that they live by. Homosexuality becomes one of these rights or truths. And thus, homosexuality comes into play.

The consensus of the latest rsearch is that homosexual tendencies and behaviours develop in the prenatal environment. There's contradictory reports and studies, some that show the result of stress, some that show the result of lutenizing hormones, etc. However one common element to all papers is that the prenatal environment is where it began.

The conclusion therefore would be that being gay is most definitely not a choice, and most likely the result of unique prenatal environments on the fetus and fetal development. Studies post-birth that look for correlations or connections for homosexuality yield nothing - so there's actually no evidence to say that it's a result of upbringing, post-birth environment, etc.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

A little something I want to get out of the way - I don't mean to come off as if I'm trying to make you look stupid. It's just kind of the way I process things in my head, and they come off condescending when typed over the internet, and we all know that tone can't really be properly read over this medium. Believe me, if you and I were talking about this in person, it would have come off a lot more respectful.

Moving forward...

Hold on, man.You’re assuming quite a lot here. First, I never said that in order to be gay, there had to be a gay gene. No. I only stated a brief history lesson of a certain theory that was disproven by later studies.

Motherfucker, of course a gay gene isn’t the cause of someone being gay—thinking that way is asinine. What I said was that the gay gene is non-existent.

When I say non-existent, I mean in the sense that something is biologically causing someone or something to become homosexual, whether it be a human being or any other animal that appears in the natural world. I don't mean to say non-existent in the sense that there aren't really gays around. I probably should have clarified this in my original post.

Disprove – The act of proving something false. Hamer’s theory: genetic marker in the X chromosome is connected to male homosexuality; it is xq28. Later studies proves Hamer’s theory false.

Yup. Pretty sure Science disproved that right there.

No, the theory that homosexuality was caused genetically is disproved, not the idea that something is physically causing an animal to present itself as a homosexual.

Uh, nooo. Let’s review on what I have said so far, shall we? The gay gene is non-existent. There is no evidence that points to homosexuality being the result of that of genetics. If that were really the case, I’m pretty sure DNA microarray technology would have found it by now. But last I can remember, it hasn’t found anything to PROVE that gays are born gay. So therefore, it remains to be seen that there really is any hard evidence to clearly pinpoint that gays ARE born gay.

So then we can be clear that there is no proof as to whether or not homosexuals are born gay. (I'll expand on this at the end of the post)

Gays become homosexual as a result of environmental factors/psychological factors that they have faced throughout their childhood. When one is a child, their mind is like a sponge. They have the ability to absorb so much aspects of life and thus adapt to it. Whatever viruses this child gains is what inevitably influences their thinking and thus becomes the reality that they live. Over time, the child better adapts to such reality and they start to see it as what is “right” or what is “true”. When everything is said and done, these “rights” and “wrongs” become the morals that they live by. Homosexuality becomes one of these rights or truths. And thus, homosexuality comes into play.

And I absolutely do not doubt the fact that there probably are a lot of cases of homosexuality that were caused by emotional or mental problems due to their environment. But this absolutely does not explain homosexuality appearing in the natural world.

But they’re not. While, sure, it’s a mystery as to why pedophiles etc would ever think to think the way they do; however, just because they think a certain way does not mean that that is the way that they were born. Why? Because there is no proof to show that such reality is true. As of right now, it is but a mere misconception that people are starting to form in their minds and starting to believe.

I completely agree, and that's not my position. My position is while there are a number of clear-cut cases of homosexuality/pedophilia/zoophilia that stem from a number of different environmental factors, there is no way to tell whether or not any number of people were born a certain way, or why this appears in the natural world. There have been theories that state that a certain instinct kicks in someone's brain that basically says "your immediate area is overcrowded, it's time to stop wanting to reproduce," or it could be a faulty system in which not enough testosterone is being produced, and more estrogen is being produced, causing you to act more "feminine" (so to speak), and you start to think you're gay, etc. All these tings are physical problems.

But I’m not. And neither am I saying that I dislike the way homosexuals live their life. You’re just assuming something that isn’t there.

A couple of things:
A) I meant "you" in general, not you specifically.
B) I was referring mainly to pedo/zoophilia. We can both agree that homosexuality is pretty universally more accepted in this world than pedo or zoophilia.

Again with the assuming… Motherfucker, I stayed with the same argument all the way. The problem here is that YOU misunderstood the meaning behind the context of my words. Throughout my entire argument, I said that the gay gene was non-existent. Gays weren’t born gay. Being gay has nothing to do with genetics. Gays are gay because of psychological/environmental factors they face through childhood. And lastly, you assume to much.

You don't know this. There's no possible way you can know this. That's YOUR assumption.

What I find especially funny here is that you even agreed with me in the beginning that I was saying that genetics was not the result of homosexuality. And now you’re saying I jumped theories from: science has disproved the argument that homosexuality is not a choice.

No, I absolutely was agreeing with you, and I left that point there.

Ehm… let’s save this topic for a different time, shall we?

But it's absolutely relevant to the situation. Zoohpiles and pedophiles are probably (and most likely moreso than homosexuals) the way they are because of environmental factors. THIS is what I meant by placing world-view bias on a group of people. YES, they should be distanced from society, and probably castrated, depending on who you are, but if you can agree that the choice is taken away from homosexuals due to environmental factors (and you've implied this), then it's only fair that I can assume you would agree that the choice is taken away from zoophiles and pedophiles as well. The only difference is the outcome of these environmental factors. Zoophiles hurt animals. Pedophiles hurt children.

Mozz, I respect you as a great poster. But please try to understand what I say before you start trying to make me look stupid because, well…it didn’t work. Better luck with someone else, dude..

I just think we had a bit of a miscommunication, and hopefully we're both on the same page here .

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Are Homosexuals born this way?

I certainly do believe that homosexuality has something to do with genetics or as Salvis said, with the prenatal environment. There might not be any conclusive proof for it but there can simply be no other way.

If gays are not born this way then are you saying homosexuality is a choice? That's a ridiculous statement and there is no reason which would suggest why a person should go against nature's laws. The other thing is that an enviroment in which a person is raised might have an effect on one's sexuality. Well then how do you account for the fact that a gay person might have a straight sibling when they have been raised in the same environment? Also are you telling me that if a straight guy is made to watch gay porn continuously he will turn gay? That again is impossible, in my opinion. Sexuality is an inherent quality. It cannot be changed in any way. In the same manner a person raised by a gay couple should turn out to be gay. He sees stuff at home which the outside world normally terms as gay behavior. But that is not always the case. Children raised by gay parents do turn out to be straight. How can you explain this if you are saying that the environment has an effect on sexuality?

So I definately do believe that homosexuality is related to your birth in some way or the other.

Or is it something they can help?

Are you asking if homosexuality can be rectified? Tell me can you turn a straight man gay? If that is impossible then the reverse process has to be impossible as well.

How would an individual go about telling their parents they're homosexual?

Well at the end of the day the individual has got to go up to his parents and just say it. Obviously the way homosexuality is seen makes it a difficult proposition. I think it would be best if the individual tries to find out what his parents think about homosexuality.

Also it would be best if you reveal this thing after you have established yourself in life. That way you can always say that you are a successful person regardless of your sexuality and that is what matters at the end of the day.

If not explained above, what are your views on homosexuality?

As far as gay marriages go, I think if two people want to spend their lives with each other, they should be allowed to do so regardless of their gender. Marriage is more than just about having children. Its about happiness and if you can find happiness with a member of the same sex as yours then I do not see a problem.

However I do find homosexuality unnatural and that is because I do not know why it comes about. You cannot accept something you do not understand and that is the biggest bane of homosexuality. I would surely like to understand it better. I would like to have some answers that clearly explain homosexual behavior. Once more knowledge is available to us about it, homosexuality will cease to be as much of an issue as it is today.

 

[Freddy4190]

I think it's quite annoying how people haven't learned to accept homosexuality into today's culture STILL. I used to be kind of iffy about it when I was younger, because I just didn't understand, and when I thought gay, I thought of the flamboyant guy wearing a pink scarf and sashaying down the street hitting on every guy that he saw. Now i'm older, more mature, wiser. It doesn't bother me, at all. I know a bunch of gay dudes, they're pretty chill. People still act like they are scum and it's pretty sad actually. I know a few lesbians as well, they're not any normal from regular females, except.. they like vagina. Do I think they were born with the gene? It depends really, some could be. Most of them develop it through their childhood, or through their upbringing. Some always say "I knew I was gay when I was young." So I guess they could be born with it? It's really hard to determine I suppose.

 

[LSN80]

Right there. In the first paragraph. LSN80 giving me a paragraph I do not need to read. I am from Scotland. I am saying that the USA schools are different. Again I am from Scotland. Says it in location.:

The post was relevant because I was arguing that high schools(at least the ones that I attended) were the same as you described in Scotland. That was my point, friend.

Again can you actually read my posts. I have explained so many times what the stereotypical gay is now. Long hair, gay ass shoes, skinny jeans, t-shirt showing their chest etc etc.

No, Im not. What I was asking you to describe was the stereotypical type of homosexual. What you did was describe your idea of a pattern of dressing. We as people are so much more then then the clothes that we wear and how we grow our hair. That's what I was asking you to describe.

Also straight people are usually normal about being straight. Of course there are hundreds of different types of straight people.But these stereotypical gay's are all the same.

again, what im asking you to describe is the stereotypical type of behavior. What does a "normal" straight person behave like? In contrast, what does a "stereotypical extremist" homosexual behave like?

When I was referring to the voice I was meaning one they put on. Have you honestly never heard the forced gay voice. It's energetic, high pitched, etc etc.

Who in the hell are you to say that their voice is forced, and not the voice they were born with? Honestly, who would go out of their way to change the tone and pitch of their voice? At what end does that accomplish? Geez...

I have no idea what crap you are talking. If I hit on a woman and she's not interested then I will move on. It's what you do you know. I have said that before too. Damn.

You've never hit on a woman, been rejected, then tried again? Ever? Then you'ld be the first male in history to do so. As I explained earlier, my wife wasn't interested in me at first, the night we met. I was persistent. The rest is history. There are ways of going about being persistent without being disrespectful and ignorant.

How is it disrespectful to hit on a woman if I don't know what she is. I have clearly said it is disresoectful for gays to hit on straight people if they KNOW they are straight.

How did the homosexual man know you were gay when he first hit on you? Was it because of your "normal heterosexual dress"? If you were with your buddies, just male friends, maybe he thought all of you were gay. It's your incredible closemindedness that doesn't all you to see that it's not someone's "look" that necessarily is indicative of their sexual orientation.

If a woman has told me to piss off because she's not interested then that's exactly what I'll do.I have "the look"? Oh so even though I have told him I'm not interested it is still ok because I have "the look".

Never said that. I said that was possibly the reason he hit on you in the first place. The "look" is nothing more then a stereotype created by people like you who are disgusted by homosexuals.

I may have taken it as a bit of a compliment the first 2 times but after 6 times and attempted sexual harassment how can I possibly take that as a compliment. I think you've been reading too many of Hamburglar's posts.

Its hard to read your posts sometimes because you don't differentiate between a "?" and a "." I didnt say to take it as a compliment that he sexually harrassed you. Convenient that you left the part of my post out where I agreed that you were sexually harrassed. You were, no doubt about it. I was simply saying to look at it from a different standpoint such as taking it as a compliment, the FIRST time. You whine and moan about people not reading your posts, but you grossly misquote mine.

And of course I read Ham's posts. I only helped him start the thread and all.

Your wife can do whatever I don't care.

What does my wife have to do with this? I was giving an example, that's all. Its my last experience hitting on a woman because Ive been with her for 7 years, the last 3 and a half of them in marriage. Don't make this personal dude. You really don't want to go there.

Read my posts. I told him no interest 6 times. 6 TIMES. I would never hit on a woman more than once. It's pretty disrespectful if I do more actually.

Read it. Called it sexual harrassment and said he was wrong. Did you read that in my last post that you just quoted? Apparently not....

Your damn right I am proud for kicking the shit out of him. High five. I could not move away he would've followed.

Its called aggravated assault, dumbass. A felony. Your proud of committing a felony? Awesome. And you're a mindreader now that you know he would have followed? Call the police. Rally your crew and make threats. Two wrongs don't make a right. Yours was much more aggregious.

If she had hit on me 6 times and tried to sexually harass me your damn right I'd kick the shit out of her.

A proponent of gay bashing and beating women. Got it. Your parents must be so proud of the upstanding person you've become.

READ MY POSTS. I never said that they SHOULD face the consequences. I said it is more likely. A simple heads up.

Originally posted by cm_punk12
All I was saying that if they are going to do a full on french kiss while touching each other they should be prepared for the consequences.

You were saying? I just quoted your post dude. Im not sure how I could misinterpret that. They should "prepare for the consequences." You then went on to say that....

]Originally posted by cm_punk12

Yes "these people" as in the stereotypical gay's. I hate them. Despise them. They've made my life less enjoyable thus far.

What did i misread or misinterpret here? You're the epitome of homophobia.

Ummm I think you just did compare me to Hitler.

I did, in a sense. He singled out and stereotyped a group of people(the mentally handicapped, then the entire Jewish race) and euthanized them. Your views on the "stereotypical homosexual" are similar. Im not saying you're encouraging killing them, so please don't go there.

Oh so you hope my kids are gay?I hope your kids eat poo. I'm so cool for saying that.

I do. Would you love them less or treat them differently if they acted like the "stereotypical extremist homosexual"? I'm not being immature, Im making a point. I think you proved it in....

If my kid was gay and lived up to the stereotypes of gay or was in my face. I would not speak to him anymore becuase he's being an idiot.

Wow. The epitome of homophobia here. What if they were the "stereotypical lesbian?".

READ MY POSTS. I never said they should face consequences I said they could. I am not explaining the stereotypical gay again.

[/QUOTE]

I did. It would have been impossible for me to respond, 4 times, without doing so. What I gathered from it is youre a proponent of gay bashing and beating up women, given certain circumstances. You also are a stereotypical homophobic. Do I need to explain what that is to you?

 

[Pole Smoker]

The post was relevant because I was arguing that high schools(at least the ones that I attended) were the same as you described in Scotland. That was my point, friend.



No, Im not. What I was asking you to describe was the stereotypical type of homosexual. What you did was describe your idea of a pattern of dressing. We as people are so much more then then the clothes that we wear and how we grow our hair. That's what I was asking you to describe.



again, what im asking you to describe is the stereotypical type of behavior. What does a "normal" straight person behave like? In contrast, what does a "stereotypical extremist" homosexual behave like?



Who in the hell are you to say that their voice is forced, and not the voice they were born with? Honestly, who would go out of their way to change the tone and pitch of their voice? At what end does that accomplish? Geez...



You've never hit on a woman, been rejected, then tried again? Ever? Then you'ld be the first male in history to do so. As I explained earlier, my wife wasn't interested in me at first, the night we met. I was persistent. The rest is history. There are ways of going about being persistent without being disrespectful and ignorant.




How did the homosexual man know you were gay when he first hit on you? Was it because of your "normal heterosexual dress"? If you were with your buddies, just male friends, maybe he thought all of you were gay. It's your incredible closemindedness that doesn't all you to see that it's not someone's "look" that necessarily is indicative of their sexual orientation.



Never said that. I said that was possibly the reason he hit on you in the first place. The "look" is nothing more then a stereotype created by people like you who are disgusted by homosexuals.



Its hard to read your posts sometimes because you don't differentiate between a "?" and a "." I didnt say to take it as a compliment that he sexually harrassed you. Convenient that you left the part of my post out where I agreed that you were sexually harrassed. You were, no doubt about it. I was simply saying to look at it from a different standpoint such as taking it as a compliment, the FIRST time. You whine and moan about people not reading your posts, but you grossly misquote mine.

And of course I read Ham's posts. I only helped him start the thread and all.


What does my wife have to do with this? I was giving an example, that's all. Its my last experience hitting on a woman because Ive been with her for 7 years, the last 3 and a half of them in marriage. Don't make this personal dude. You really don't want to go there.



Read it. Called it sexual harrassment and said he was wrong. Did you read that in my last post that you just quoted? Apparently not....



Its called aggravated assault, dumbass. A felony. Your proud of committing a felony? Awesome. And you're a mindreader now that you know he would have followed? Call the police. Rally your crew and make threats. Two wrongs don't make a right. Yours was much more aggregious.



A proponent of gay bashing and beating women. Got it. Your parents must be so proud of the upstanding person you've become.





You were saying? I just quoted your post dude. Im not sure how I could misinterpret that. They should "prepare for the consequences." You then went on to say that....

]Originally posted by cm_punk12


What did i misread or misinterpret here? You're the epitome of homophobia.



I did, in a sense. He singled out and stereotyped a group of people(the mentally handicapped, then the entire Jewish race) and euthanized them. Your views on the "stereotypical homosexual" are similar. Im not saying you're encouraging killing them, so please don't go there.



I do. Would you love them less or treat them differently if they acted like the "stereotypical extremist homosexual"? I'm not being immature, Im making a point. I think you proved it in....



Wow. The epitome of homophobia here. What if they were the "stereotypical lesbian?".




I did. It would have been impossible for me to respond, 4 times, without doing so. What I gathered from it is youre a proponent of gay bashing and beating up women, given certain circumstances. You also are a stereotypical homophobic. Do I need to explain what that is to you?

First off in my I gave you an answer to each of your paragraph's so I did not leave any of your quotes out.

Well that's my point. Straight people are different. Stereotypical gay's are all the same.

Give me a break. So you have never heard of the gay voice. I smell lies. So every stereotypical gay somehow has the same voice. What a coincidence.

No I have never "hit" on a woman more than one. I have however talked to girls I liked more than once who have rejected me. Hitting on a woman is different to talking to one you know. I am persistent but I'm not with hitting on woman at a party or something.

No you see I was talking about situations where the gay person know's they are straight. Also the gay man knew I was straight after 1 time so...

Well the stereotypical gay does exist. How many exist that act like them are straight?

Whine and groan? I write the truth.

I meant you've been reading too many of his posts because you miss out parts.

I didn't make it personal you did.

cool.

Well he followed me the whole night. He hit on me 6 different times. After 7 attempts at me I had had enough and kicked the shit out of him. Why would he stop following me this time?

Dude I would kick the shit out of straight people too.

If I was to let woman do it then surely I'm not giving her the same treatment as males which in a sense is sexist. They want to be treated the same as men so... Also my dad hates people who try to sexually harass someone too so I guess he is very proud. "Don't make this personal dude you don't want to go there" Well it seems your now making this personal.

I'm a bit homophobic yes. If that counts hating watching gay's do it and the stereotypical gay guy anyway.

Well you are comparing me to a guy that did so please use another example.

please do explain the stereotypical homophobic.

 

[SSJPhenom]

First off, if you don't know me then you don't know what I'm about to tell you. Let me start off by saying, I'm bisexual. I will love and sleep with a woman and at the same time have feelings for a man. Now that that's out of the way......

Are gays born this way?

Idk. I'm not a scientist and I could care less about the science behind it. It could be human nature or it could be human nurture. Who knows? All we have are theories on the subject and nothing can be proven. However, I don't believe whole heartedly that it is in the way a person is raised. I was raised with a strong father figure and in a family where I didn't know of anyone being gay. I played sports, I worked out, I played outside, I got hurt on the road, I fell off my bike, I mowed the lawn, I did yard and house work, etc. Look, I'm still bisexual. So to say that it is just in a person's environment, I think, is wrong.

Is it something they can help?

Hell no!!! For me, being with a man or woman is as natural as breathing. There are periods of time when I do crave the attention and affections of a woman over a man and vise versa. So, I don't think it is something that I have any control over and for anyone who cares, I don't try to have any control over it.

How would a gay person go about telling their parents?

It's a case to case situation. For me, I just staight up said, "Mom, I love women, however, I have feeling for men too." I said that exactly as it's posted. She didn't care. I was still her son and she still loved me. I said, "Dad, I'm bisexual." He said, "Are you saying you like men?" I said, "Yeah, but I like women too!" He said, "So. You're still my son and I love you no matter what." I had it easy. I doubt that most gay or bi people have it this easy.

What are my feelings towards gay people?

Well I love them obviously.

 

[Ultra Awesome]

My bad, dude. I saw you quote me earlier but completely forgot about your statements when I saw Mozz’s argument.

The consensus of the latest rsearch is that homosexual tendencies and behaviours develop in the prenatal environment. There's contradictory reports and studies, some that show the result of stress, some that show the result of lutenizing hormones, etc. However one common element to all papers is that the prenatal environment is where it began.

So going by this statement you made, is it right for me to conclude that you found out that the result of stress (etc) is because of the prenatal environment? If I may say, that’s a very bold statement. If it is true that homosexual tendencies are the result of pre-birth, then the contradictory statements involving stress would cause the first argument to be full of flaw, would it not?

The conclusion therefore would be that being gay is most definitely not a choice, and most likely the result of unique prenatal environments on the fetus and fetal development. Studies post-birth that look for correlations or connections for homosexuality yield nothing - so there's actually no evidence to say that it's a result of upbringing, post-birth environment, etc.

Before I go on, let me address that I never believed that being gay was entirely a choice. Because, judging by the factors of the real world, it’d be pretty ludicrous to think someone would choose to be ridiculed for the way they are. However, that does not mean SOME choose to be gay as more often than not, it has been shown that such occurrences do in fact happen.

With that said, I’m having a hard time buying that theory that you’ve mentioned. Perhaps if you provided a link, I could further believe you. However, when one is a fetus, their anatomy barely starts to form. It does not decide whether what their sexual orientation will be. Such things do not happen until after they are born. Besides, I doubt that there is any hard evidence to prove those studies to be truth. As it has been with Hamer’s, LeVay’s, and those other two guys (whose names I forget) theories – they have all been disproven at one point or another.

Your theory has got me curious, though; so, I decided to do some research of my own. Along my searching I found this little article. I think you will be very interested to read what is found in it. It not only disproves the common ‘being born gay’ theory, but it proves that the environmental/psychological factors contribute to the possibility of one becoming a homosexual. Here is the link:

http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/genetics_of_homosexuality.html


====================================================================================================================================

A little something I want to get out of the way - I don't mean to come off as if I'm trying to make you look stupid. It's just kind of the way I process things in my head, and they come off condescending when typed over the internet, and we all know that tone can't really be properly read over this medium. Believe me, if you and I were talking about this in person, it would have come off a lot more respectful.

Hahaha, alright then, Mozz. Sorry for the misinterpreting. It’s just after the recent occurrences with the Fanchick, I thought you were trying to do the same to me. Also, let me address that I call many people ‘motherfucker’ for no particular reason; it’s not something that one should take as an insult; it’s just a way for me to address said person. But in any case, let’s move on to the debate…

When I say non-existent, I mean in the sense that something is biologically causing someone or something to become homosexual, whether it be a human being or any other animal that appears in the natural world. I don't mean to say non-existent in the sense that there aren't really gays around. I probably should have clarified this in my original post.

That’s the thing though. Roughly a year ago, I was under the impression that gays were in fact born gay. However, through much research I quickly began to learn that all these theories and hypothesis were more often than not disproven and ultimately made false through later studies. Hamer’s theory of the xq28 is but the most commonly referenced one.

But as for homosexuality being the result of biological factors: If that were really the case, then there wouldn’t be a possible way for those that are homosexuals to adapt a heterosexual life. Why? Because being homosexual would have already been defaulted into their brain – thus, any conversion would be nearly impossible. But to contrast this, many studies have proven that while although a homosexual cannot fully convert to becoming a heterosexual, their sexual orientation can be made flexible so that they adopt more heterosexual thinking.

No, the theory that homosexuality was caused genetically is disproved, not the idea that something is physically causing an animal to present itself as a homosexual.

True, homosexuality is very real – that is a fact. However, you said physically. What do you mean by that?

So then we can be clear that there is no proof as to whether or not homosexuals are born gay. (I'll expand on this at the end of the post)

Yeah. The only reason I’m stating that gays aren’t born gay is because I have yet to encounter any strong factual evidence to prove me otherwise.

And I absolutely do not doubt the fact that there probably are a lot of cases of homosexuality that were caused by emotional or mental problems due to their environment. But this absolutely does not explain homosexuality appearing in the natural world.

Natural world? So you want examples as to why gays think the way they do, right? Well, there could be a lot of reasons. One of the most common would be a distant relationship with a same-sex parent. When something like this occurs, it causes the said child to want to find acceptance in the arms of other same-sex gender because the original same-sex parent did not offer that acceptance to the child. Another example could be isolation from same-sex peers. This would undoubtedly cause the said person to begin to take interest in the things the opposite gender would normally be interested. Vise-versa: frequenting too much with the same-sex gender could cause one to gain a love interest in them. All these factos and many more are crucial in what makes one become a homosexual.

But as for how this ties into what I said earlier in this specific quote, let me explain it in a broad detail. When one is experienced to a phenomenon as the one I explained above, it starts to become the reality that they live – the reality that they start to see as true. It is the reality that starts to characterize them a certain way and thus, subconsciously, they start to find acceptance into what he or she is and how it is they think.

If a guy starts to find acceptance in males more than females, he will most likely start to go with the belief that males are the gender that he’d much rather prefer. This isn’t something that happens intentionally, but rather, it is something that their subconscious mind starts to believe. The frequenting too much with guys causes the mind of the said person to start to believe that that is the way things should go. He should start to find interest in guys; and believe that that is the way he should live his life. Now, does the child consciously want to live this life? Most likely not; but it comes to the point where it is asked if their will power is stronger than the ideas (or misconceptions) that are caused by the brain.

I completely agree, and that's not my position. My position is while there are a number of clear-cut cases of homosexuality/pedophilia/zoophilia that stem from a number of different environmental factors, there is no way to tell whether or not any number of people were born a certain way, or why this appears in the natural world. There have been theories that state that a certain instinct kicks in someone's brain that basically says "your immediate area is overcrowded, it's time to stop wanting to reproduce," or it could be a faulty system in which not enough testosterone is being produced, and more estrogen is being produced, causing you to act more "feminine" (so to speak), and you start to think you're gay, etc. All these tings are physical problems.

You’re right. As of right now, it [still] hasn’t been found as to whether or not biology REALLY does play an issue to which whether one is gay or not.

But let’s think about this for a moment, shall we? Suppose homosexuality did have something to do with one being gay. Suppose there was a gene(s) that contributed to the way one thinks (etc). My question here is: So what? Just because we are programmed to be a certain way means that we have to act out that way? What if we don’t want to act that way? Are we just gonna stand idly by and let biology choose our destiny? – the way that we choose to live our lives?

Comparing this to drug abuse, every year it’s been hypothesized more and more that genetics plays a role in drug abuse. But just because that is so does not mean that one should automatically go out and OD themselves (etc). Biology does not and should not control the way we live. We, ourselves are in charge of that. DNA is not the one that determines the way we think. Also,

This is why I have turned myself to believe that perhaps the real reason that homosexuals are gay is because of the environmental/psychological factors that they face throughout life (specifically childhood).

A couple of things:
A) I meant "you" in general, not you specifically.
B) I was referring mainly to pedo/zoophilia. We can both agree that homosexuality is pretty universally more accepted in this world than pedo or zoophilia.

Ah, sorry about that then. But yeah, you're right. People haven't come to view as zoophillia and pedos as normal people of our society because they just go against all the morals that mankind (specifically America) live by. In the world we live in, an adult having sex with a child is viewed as horrundeous. Same if a male has sex with an animal. And if people are seen commtiing these acts then they will be viewed as disgusting or mentally ill bastards.

But is this really so? Are they really soick fucks? The real answer is no. The reason thhey are viewed the way they are is because that is the reality that people have spread amongst the population. Older men having sex with children is bad. Therefore, it shouldn't be done.

You don't know this. There's no possible way you can know this. That's YOUR assumption.

Well yeah. Of course it is. Though it should be fairly noted that this assumption was formed after all the research and evidence I have done in the past year or so. But, hey, I could be wrong. Maybe biology really DOES play a role in homosexuality. The only probelm is: it hasn't been proven.

But it's absolutely relevant to the situation. Zoohpiles and pedophiles are probably (and most likely moreso than homosexuals) the way they are because of environmental factors. THIS is what I meant by placing world-view bias on a group of people. YES, they should be distanced from society, and probably castrated, depending on who you are, but if you can agree that the choice is taken away from homosexuals due to environmental factors (and you've implied this), then it's only fair that I can assume you would agree that the choice is taken away from zoophiles and pedophiles as well. The only difference is the outcome of these environmental factors. Zoophiles hurt animals. Pedophiles hurt children.

By choice, do you mean the issue concerining whether Zoophiles and pedophiles are born the way they are? Yeah, I DO think that both zoophillia nad pedophillia come as a result of the environmental/psychological factors that they faced throughout their life as well. I once remember reading an article on a pedophile who explained the reason as to why he did what he did. The reason was that supposadly his father molested him as a child and thus began to go with the idea that he too should molest other children. I read this more than a year ago so my memmory is very vague on the situation. But yea, I think that zoophillia and pedophillia is not the result of genetics.

just think we had a bit of a miscommunication, and hopefully we're both on the same page here .

Yeah, it's all good mate. Though upon previewing my post, I have noticed that I wrote alot more than I had intended. Feel free to dismiss some parts of my post or quote a few parts together so this doesn't get too out of hand.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Hahaha, alright then, Mozz. Sorry for the misinterpreting. It’s just after the recent occurrences with the Fanchick, I thought you were trying to do the same to me. Also, let me address that I call many people ‘motherfucker’ for no particular reason; it’s not something that one should take as an insult; it’s just a way for me to address said person. But in any case, let’s move on to the debate…

It's all good. It happens all the time, especially on this forum. You'll see plenty of examples in The Cage. Also, yeah, I got a friend who says "motherfucker" every third word, so I never really take it to heart, even if you were saying it seriously.

That’s the thing though. Roughly a year ago, I was under the impression that gays were in fact born gay. However, through much research I quickly began to learn that all these theories and hypothesis were more often than not disproven and ultimately made false through later studies. Hamer’s theory of the xq28 is but the most commonly referenced one.

That's what I've been trying to say. Those theories don't disprove the theory that homosexuals are born gay. It just disproves one, single possible cause for it. There could be a number of different things going on in the body that would cause it to act in certain way, sending weird signals to the brain. There just haven't been enough studies on the human body to determine anything of that sort, which is why I found it so weird that anybody can hold a position that gays can either be born gay or they can't be.

It's not really an opinion. Just like, "There is a god," or "There is no god," is not an opinion, it's a belief. If there is a way to prove something or disprove it, then you're entering the territory where opinions can be right or wrong.

Hypothetically, if God is proven to absolutely, 100% not exist, and you still have people say, "In my opinion, God still exists," then I'm sorry for that guy, but he's still wrong.

Back on topic, if you know something can either be proved or disproved, then there's no reason to hold a position on it, because, well, you are either right or wrong. It's just yet to be seen.

But as for homosexuality being the result of biological factors: If that were really the case, then there wouldn’t be a possible way for those that are homosexuals to adapt a heterosexual life. Why? Because being homosexual would have already been defaulted into their brain – thus, any conversion would be nearly impossible. But to contrast this, many studies have proven that while although a homosexual cannot fully convert to becoming a heterosexual, their sexual orientation can be made flexible so that they adopt more heterosexual thinking.

That's not necessarily true. I've heard of closet-homosexuals with a wife and kids. It's kind of wired into your brain to get an erection and ejaculate when your penis is touching a warm hole, regardless of whether the person you're having sex is is a male or a female.

But I thought the topic was whether the homosexuality is defaulted at birth, or if it develops later on.

True, homosexuality is very real – that is a fact. However, you said physically. What do you mean by that?

Meaning, there is something physically causing homosexuality, rather than the emotional or mental factors believed to cause it, e.g., genetics, etc.

Yeah. The only reason I’m stating that gays aren’t born gay is because I have yet to encounter any strong factual evidence to prove me otherwise.

I've yet to encounter a black, gay Muslim. That doesn't mean they don't exist.

Natural world? So you want examples as to why gays think the way they do, right? Well, there could be a lot of reasons. One of the most common would be a distant relationship with a same-sex parent. When something like this occurs, it causes the said child to want to find acceptance in the arms of other same-sex gender because the original same-sex parent did not offer that acceptance to the child. Another example could be isolation from same-sex peers. This would undoubtedly cause the said person to begin to take interest in the things the opposite gender would normally be interested. Vise-versa: frequenting too much with the same-sex gender could cause one to gain a love interest in them. All these factos and many more are crucial in what makes one become a homosexual.

I mean the natural world, encompassing everything in the animal kingdom, not just humans. We know homosexuality appears in our species. But what about other species?

But let’s think about this for a moment, shall we? Suppose homosexuality did have something to do with one being gay.

lol Okay, I'll grant that.

Sorry, I'm not laughing in a mean way.

Suppose there was a gene(s) that contributed to the way one thinks (etc). My question here is: So what? Just because we are programmed to be a certain way means that we have to act out that way? What if we don’t want to act that way? Are we just gonna stand idly by and let biology choose our destiny? – the way that we choose to live our lives?

If you're biologically programmed to act a certain way, then you are going to want to act that way. It's not like some outside party is forcing us to act in a certain way against our will. Our will is[/i] our biology. If you're a cat, you don't WANT to stand up on two legs, talk, and go to work for a living. You want to hunt small objects or animals, and kind of hang out and be comfortable all day. If you're a bird, you want to fly, protect your offspring, and eat.

Comparing this to drug abuse, every year it’s been hypothesized more and more that genetics plays a role in drug abuse. But just because that is so does not mean that one should automatically go out and OD themselves (etc). Biology does not and should not control the way we live. We, ourselves are in charge of that. DNA is not the one that determines the way we think. Also,

You see, you're crossing the line from biological programming to biological defects. Doing something you KNOW is going to hurt you, or prevent you from doing something you're also biologically programmed to do, is a defect. It happens.

Ah, sorry about that then. But yeah, you're right. People haven't come to view as zoophillia and pedos as normal people of our society because they just go against all the morals that mankind (specifically America) live by. In the world we live in, an adult having sex with a child is viewed as horrundeous. Same if a male has sex with an animal. And if people are seen commtiing these acts then they will be viewed as disgusting or mentally ill bastards.

But is this really so? Are they really soick fucks? The real answer is no. The reason thhey are viewed the way they are is because that is the reality that people have spread amongst the population. Older men having sex with children is bad. Therefore, it shouldn't be done.

If you can't control who you're attracted to, then what makes you think that pedophiles can control who they're attracted to? Yes, it's horrible, it's disgusting, they should be distanced, castrated, or both. It IS horrendous, but you have to understand, the only difference between pedophiles and homosexuals is that pedophiles indoctrinate children and hurt them. Homosexuals have sex with other adults who are able to think for themselves.

I think people view pedophiles and zoophiles the way that they do based on the things they do. Someone does a horrendous thing, they get viewed horrendously.

Well yeah. Of course it is. Though it should be fairly noted that this assumption was formed after all the research and evidence I have done in the past year or so. But, hey, I could be wrong. Maybe biology really DOES play a role in homosexuality. The only probelm is: it hasn't been proven.

The lack of proof isn't disproof.

By choice, do you mean the issue concerining whether Zoophiles and pedophiles are born the way they are? Yeah, I DO think that both zoophillia nad pedophillia come as a result of the environmental/psychological factors that they faced throughout their life as well. I once remember reading an article on a pedophile who explained the reason as to why he did what he did. The reason was that supposadly his father molested him as a child and thus began to go with the idea that he too should molest other children. I read this more than a year ago so my memmory is very vague on the situation. But yea, I think that zoophillia and pedophillia is not the result of genetics.

Who knows? Until we find that out, we can't really make that decision. I do believe, however, if that pedophilia and zoophilia, and -philias of that nature, where someone is compelled to have sex with someone/something that can't think for itself, or can't refuse sex, is the result of either genetics or something biological, I think we as a society should put a lot of work into correcting this problem.

If this problem can't be corrected, I wouldn't not be in favor of cutting off society's dead weight.

 

[Ultra Awesome]

That's what I've been trying to say. Those theories don't disprove the theory that homosexuals are born gay. It just disproves one, single possible cause for it. There could be a number of different things going on in the body that would cause it to act in certain way, sending weird signals to the brain. There just haven't been enough studies on the human body to determine anything of that sort, which is why I found it so weird that anybody can hold a position that gays can either be born gay or they can't be.

How so? It’s perfectly logical that you have two sides to this argument. On the one half, you have people saying that nature is the cause of one being homosexual. On the other, you have people saying the cause is by nurture. Nature vs. Nurture – this debate has been going on for roughly 20 years or more, dude. It’s nothing new.

But let me ask you something. Do you want to know why this debate has so much attention attracted towards it? The reason stems down to this very answer determining whether society can fully accept gays or not. If a gay were born gay, then naturally, society would have no other option to accept these people as normal people. It’s not their fault they are the way they are because, well, god made them that way. However, if gays AREN’T really born gay; and it’s the factors that I speak of that make one gay, then society will have less of a reason to view them as normal. Instead, they will go with the belief that being gay is nothing more than a mental illness.

This is why this debate generates so much controversy. It’s either gays are accepted…or they’re not. Of course, people like you and me are aware that gays are just like anyone else – they deserve as much as freedom as we do; and thinking otherwise is asinine. However, society as a whole is unable to accept these people. If they’re not born gay, then there’s no reason to not treat them as lesser of society.

It's not really an opinion. Just like, "There is a god," or "There is no god," is not an opinion, it's a belief. If there is a way to prove something or disprove it, then you're entering the territory where opinions can be right or wrong.

But opinions can be wrong.

Hypothetically, if God is proven to absolutely, 100% not exist, and you still have people say, "In my opinion, God still exists," then I'm sorry for that guy, but he's still wrong.

Back on topic, if you know something can either be proved or disproved, then there's no reason to hold a position on it, because, well, you are either right or wrong. It's just yet to be seen.

Why not? Opinions are formed so that they can be expressed out in the general public and/or are tested if they are theories or hypothesis. When two opinions collide, a debate forms to see which is right and which is wrong. Without taking shots in the dark and forming opinions, society would not function the way it does today – it’d most likely be much more primitive.

That's not necessarily true. I've heard of closet-homosexuals with a wife and kids. It's kind of wired into your brain to get an erection and ejaculate when your penis is touching a warm hole, regardless of whether the person you're having sex is is a male or a female.

This doesn’t disprove anything of what I say. It’s just telling me the life of an individual. I’m talking about people who dislike being gay – the people that go through therapy to change the way they are. A good portion of these people ultimately end up having a flexible sexual orientation. They may not be completely converted, but they are living better lives now then they were before.

But I thought the topic was whether the homosexuality is defaulted at birth, or if it develops later on.

That and the realities that society faces. In the end, it’s all related so it’s all good.

Meaning, there is something physically causing homosexuality, rather than the emotional or mental factors believed to cause it, e.g., genetics, etc.

So like as in biological? Again, there is no proof for that. Therefore, as of right now, thinking that way is but an opinion that has yet to be proven false or right.

I've yet to encounter a black, gay Muslim. That doesn't mean they don't exist.

The difference is that you KNOW they exist. Common knowledge is different from theories that have no evidence to prove it.

I mean the natural world, encompassing everything in the animal kingdom, not just humans. We know homosexuality appears in our species. But what about other species?

What about them? These other species are far below humans in terms of evolution so there shouldn’t be made any comparisons. Animals display rash behavior that should not be the guideline by which we live. Many species of animals will engage with homosexual behavior to show that they are higher in the pecking order – not like humans for pleasure.

lol Okay, I'll grant that.

Sorry, I'm not laughing in a mean way.

Sorry. I ment to say: Suppose biology did have something to do with one being gay.

If you're biologically programmed to act a certain way, then you are going to want to act that way. It's not like some outside party is forcing us to act in a certain way against our will. Our will is[/i] our biology. If you're a cat, you don't WANT to stand up on two legs, talk, and go to work for a living. You want to hunt small objects or animals, and kind of hang out and be comfortable all day. If you're a bird, you want to fly, protect your offspring, and eat.

A cat wanting to hunt small objects is totally different from a man (or woman) being programmed to be gay. What a cat does on its daily life is instinct. What a human mind would do if it were created gay would be the functions of a robot. They’d be programmed to be that way. Therefore, biology controls the sexual orientation one has and ultimately, the destiny that they will have when it comes to attraction to the other sex, same sex, or both. Such ideology is absurd. Biology can’t be what influences what it is that we’re attracted to. Sure, it can influence other things such as the color of our hair – the way we look. But our mind; our thoughts – we decide what goes on in their – not what some stupid gene(s) tells us.

You see, you're crossing the line from biological programming to biological defects. Doing something you KNOW is going to hurt you, or prevent you from doing something you're also biologically programmed to do, is a defect. It happens.

Regardless of whether they are defects or affects, the point still stands: biology does not influence our way of thinking. The human mind has the capacity to do so much. The only reason we’re not that far ahead is because we aren’t aware of how to use it properly.

If you can't control who you're attracted to, then what makes you think that pedophiles can control who they're attracted to? Yes, it's horrible, it's disgusting, they should be distanced, castrated, or both. It IS horrendous, but you have to understand, the only difference between pedophiles and homosexuals is that pedophiles indoctrinate children and hurt them. Homosexuals have sex with other adults who are able to think for themselves.

I think people view pedophiles and zoophiles the way that they do based on the things they do. Someone does a horrendous thing, they get viewed horrendously.

Exactly! The reality of the issue is that society has labeled people who act out in pedophillia as horrundous soley because of what they do - have sex with children - an act that is not only considered immoral, but insane as well. But upon careful consideration, the only reason that such a thing is viewed as bad is because that is the meme that has been spread throughout the world - the meme that tells people to frown upon pedophiles.

The lack of proof isn't disproof.

No answer means there's no evidence to it existing.

Who knows? Until we find that out, we can't really make that decision. I do believe, however, if that pedophilia and zoophilia, and -philias of that nature, where someone is compelled to have sex with someone/something that can't think for itself, or can't refuse sex, is the result of either genetics or something biological, I think we as a society should put a lot of work into correcting this problem.

Either that or accepting them in society =P

If this problem can't be corrected, I wouldn't not be in favor of cutting off society's dead weight.

You used a double negative here. Was this intentional? Either way, I'm still thoroughly conviced pedophillia and zoophillia are not the result of biological facotrs in ones birth. But if that were the case, then I would take a stance like the one you have made. There should be put effort into correcting the problem so that it isn't as it is. However, the only thing is, is that it will probably be much harder than if it were a psychological problem.

But at the end of the day, things are only viewed as bad because that's just the way people look at them. They see the reality that is created by mankind and thus form morals ased on that. I bet, if people thought it was ok for a child to have sex with an older man, then we wouldn't be facing the controversial issues we face today. Fortunately, however, it IS viewed as bad for pedophillia to occur. So we CAN frown upon these people. Lol.

 

[LSN80]

Im going to say this before I respond. This is my last post here. I dont care what you have to say after this. Insult my wife, myself, and the homosexuals all you like in your response. Im done with you after this.

Well that's my point. Straight people are different. Stereotypical gay's are all the same..

We are all different. We are all the individuals that God made us. Yes, I said God, because I believe in Him. The straight, the homosexual, the lesbian, and the bisexual. We all are different. We may have some similar core traits, but we have organic differences that make us who we are. No argument about "stereotypical homosexuals" will convince me otherwise. I fail to understand why it's so hard to understand and accept these differences, and the hatred for them. You were disrespected and sexually assaulted by one homosexual. My educated guess is that you lumped them all homosexual men into one group because of this. The words of "I hate them" seem to indicate that.

Give me a break. So you have never heard of the gay voice. I smell lies. So every stereotypical gay somehow has the same voice. What a coincidence.

Ive heard the voice you've described over and over, but I don't attribute it, or dress to their sexual orientation. Until someone confirms that to me by their actions, I assume nothing. I don't believe in the idea of a "stereotypical homosexual voice", as you so put it. I fail to understand why someone would choose to change their voice to sound "homosexual". To endure endless verbal beatdowns and physical ones as well? Who would do that?

No I have never "hit" on a woman more than one. I have however talked to girls I liked more than once who have rejected me. Hitting on a woman is different to talking to one you know. I am persistent but I'm not with hitting on woman at a party or something.

I agree here, but you meant them somehow, didnt you? That's what happened with my wife. Met her junior year in college. She thought I was a stereotypical jock. It took me a year to convince her otherwise, through persistence. Was I wrong in doing so? I dont think so. The result has been the best 3 and a half years of my life being happily married to a beautiful woman with double the intelligence I could ever dream of having.

No you see I was talking about situations where the gay person know's they are straight. Also the gay man knew I was straight after 1 time so...

Then they're wrong, and as Ive said to you several times, its offensive and sexual harrassment. There's still no justification for aggravated assault. I would have kicked your ass if I had seen you beating someone down. True story.

Well the stereotypical gay does exist. How many exist that act like them are straight?

What exactly does the straight person act like? Do they walk around going "Yo baby yo baby yo"? How do they dress? Ive met plenty of homosexual men and lesbian females that Ive noticed no difference between them and straight people. I only knew when they told me.

I didn't make it personal you did.

In what way did I do so? The first time Ive made it personal was in this post, when I said if I saw you beating down a defenseless homosexual, or a woman, Id kick your ass myself. I stand by that. I mean that in the least offensive way. Its not just simplified to you. If I saw anyone behaving in the abhorrent way you did, I'd do the same to them. You crossed the line far further then he did man.

Well he followed me the whole night. He hit on me 6 different times. After 7 attempts at me I had had enough and kicked the shit out of him. Why would he stop following me this time?

Maybe he wouldn't. There's always the idea of being the better person. Calling the police. Leaving the bar yourself. Your night was ruined anyway, no? Why not just pack it in and show that you truly are better then these "stereotypical gays"? Ive asked this question 3 times, and you've failed to answer it. You've jus responded with "But he hit on me 7 times". Thats not an answer, its a cop out for being a bully.

Dude I would kick the shit out of straight people too.

This has been established. You've noted that you'ld beat up a woman. Concept understood.

If I was to let woman do it then surely I'm not giving her the same treatment as males which in a sense is sexist. They want to be treated the same as men so... Also my dad hates people who try to sexually harass someone too so I guess he is very proud. "Don't make this personal dude you don't want to go there" Well it seems your now making this personal.

I don't like it when people sexually harrass others myself. I find it to be low-brow and pathetic behavior. But there's a huge difference between hating the behavior, and hating the person. You choose the latter, which is a sad way of viewing the world.

"Don't make this personal dude you don't want to go there" Well it seems your now making this personal.

Until doing it slightly in this post, how did I do this? By mentioning my wife? I was making an example, not making it personal. Huge difference.

I'm a bit homophobic yes. If that counts hating watching gay's do it and the stereotypical gay guy anyway.

And its sad. How do you feel about watching two women do it? They're "gay" as well too, you know. Have you ever watched porn that was girl on girl and enjoyed it? If so, you're living your life as a double standard.

Well you are comparing me to a guy that did so please use another example.

I compared you to Hitler because he classified a group of people as being all the same, and hated them, So far, that sounds like you. He also decided to euthanize them. You beat up a stereotypical gay. You said you 'blacked out" with rage when stomping his head. Whose to say you wouldn't have killed him in doing so? There's no way to say.

please do explain the stereotypical homophobic.

Sure. Someone who classifies and hates homosexuals because they dress, talk, and act a certain way. In other words, you.

 

[Pole Smoker]

Im going to say this before I respond. This is my last post here. I dont care what you have to say after this. Insult my wife, myself, and the homosexuals all you like in your response. Im done with you after this.




We are all different. We are all the individuals that God made us. Yes, I said God, because I believe in Him. The straight, the homosexual, the lesbian, and the bisexual. We all are different. We may have some similar core traits, but we have organic differences that make us who we are. No argument about "stereotypical homosexuals" will convince me otherwise. I fail to understand why it's so hard to understand and accept these differences, and the hatred for them. You were disrespected and sexually assaulted by one homosexual. My educated guess is that you lumped them all homosexual men into one group because of this. The words of "I hate them" seem to indicate that.



Ive heard the voice you've described over and over, but I don't attribute it, or dress to their sexual orientation. Until someone confirms that to me by their actions, I assume nothing. I don't believe in the idea of a "stereotypical homosexual voice", as you so put it. I fail to understand why someone would choose to change their voice to sound "homosexual". To endure endless verbal beatdowns and physical ones as well? Who would do that?



I agree here, but you meant them somehow, didnt you? That's what happened with my wife. Met her junior year in college. She thought I was a stereotypical jock. It took me a year to convince her otherwise, through persistence. Was I wrong in doing so? I dont think so. The result has been the best 3 and a half years of my life being happily married to a beautiful woman with double the intelligence I could ever dream of having.



Then they're wrong, and as Ive said to you several times, its offensive and sexual harrassment. There's still no justification for aggravated assault. I would have kicked your ass if I had seen you beating someone down. True story.



What exactly does the straight person act like? Do they walk around going "Yo baby yo baby yo"? How do they dress? Ive met plenty of homosexual men and lesbian females that Ive noticed no difference between them and straight people. I only knew when they told me.



In what way did I do so? The first time Ive made it personal was in this post, when I said if I saw you beating down a defenseless homosexual, or a woman, Id kick your ass myself. I stand by that. I mean that in the least offensive way. Its not just simplified to you. If I saw anyone behaving in the abhorrent way you did, I'd do the same to them. You crossed the line far further then he did man.




Maybe he wouldn't. There's always the idea of being the better person. Calling the police. Leaving the bar yourself. Your night was ruined anyway, no? Why not just pack it in and show that you truly are better then these "stereotypical gays"? Ive asked this question 3 times, and you've failed to answer it. You've jus responded with "But he hit on me 7 times". Thats not an answer, its a cop out for being a bully.



This has been established. You've noted that you'ld beat up a woman. Concept understood.



I don't like it when people sexually harrass others myself. I find it to be low-brow and pathetic behavior. But there's a huge difference between hating the behavior, and hating the person. You choose the latter, which is a sad way of viewing the world.



Until doing it slightly in this post, how did I do this? By mentioning my wife? I was making an example, not making it personal. Huge difference.



And its sad. How do you feel about watching two women do it? They're "gay" as well too, you know. Have you ever watched porn that was girl on girl and enjoyed it? If so, you're living your life as a double standard.



I compared you to Hitler because he classified a group of people as being all the same, and hated them, So far, that sounds like you. He also decided to euthanize them. You beat up a stereotypical gay. You said you 'blacked out" with rage when stomping his head. Whose to say you wouldn't have killed him in doing so? There's no way to say.



Sure. Someone who classifies and hates homosexuals because they dress, talk, and act a certain way. In other words, you.

It's about time.

I suppose.

Don't ask me.

I'm very happy for you.

I'm confident that I would've kicked your ass.

"yo baby yo baby yo" Do I need to respond to that?

You made it personal by bringing your wife in to start. Also again I am pretty confident I would've kicked your ass too if you stuck up for that guy. Self defence.

I'm a bully?

Well if she tried to sexually harass me then I would yes.

Good to know.

Well you said my "mum and dad must be proud" thus making it personal.

Nope two girls doing it disgusts me too. What do they even do? Scissor or something?

I done it out of self defence Hitler did not.

Well I am a little homophobic.

I will end this by saying that if everyone was gay we would not exist.

 

[Calderownz]

Honestly, I find it hard to imagine that someone would be gay for any lengthy period of time if they weren't born that way.

Some teenagers do seem to thrive for attention. Presumably, they could be faking this for that attention. However, I doubt that this is even close to the majority. I doubt it's even a large portion.

Someone said within this thread that they are "programmed to be gay." Complete and utter shit. I've played video games my entire life. Violent games. Watched wrestling at it's most violent. Watched violent movies. Read violent stories. Seen violent stories in the news. I've never once killed a man. Never even came close to it, really. Matter of fact, I don't even have anything more than a speeding violation on my record.

Blaming television or any form of multimedia for how your life turns out is a complete cop out. Good or bad. It's either something you decided to or something that you were genetically predisposed to. Take accountability.

With that being said, I believe that you're born gay if you're legitimately gay. I was born liking women. Just what I like. Couldn't help it if I tried. I don't care how many Will & Grace episodes I catch, it's not going to make me want a penis in my asshole. If every member of my family and all of my friends were gay? Then, they're gay. I'll take the chicks, thank you.

I don't care about genetic research. I don't care about how many times people may or may not have been molested (when it comes to this subject.) If you're a man, and you want to suck a penis and you genuinely do want to, then you're probably not straight. Pretty good chance of that. And most likely, you were born that way. Matter of fact, if you weren't born that way, chances are you simply prefer the same sex. And there's really nothing wrong with that. Same applies to women, of course.

However, most men have no problem with lesbians. It's only those "fudge-packers" that bother them. Interesting.

And no, you can't help what you like. Even if you weren't born that way (which you most assuredly are) it's a preference. That's simply what you prefer. Can't help what you're favorite color is, either.

My thoughts on homosexuals? I generally don't think of homosexuals. But, when I do, I treat it like everything else. If it doesn't affect me, then I couldn't give less of a shit. I don't understand hatred for the group, to be honest. If a gay guy hits on you, tell him to stop it. If he doesn't, kick his ass or handle it in a way that stops it. Either way, that's one person. I don't judge any group off of one person within it. Otherwise, I'd hate Mexicans, and considering I'm Mexican, that could conflict.

Regardless, most homosexuals get that not everyone is gay. And will not become that aggressive. Some PEOPLE are aggressive, period.

Funny thing about homosexuals, besides the parties and the outfits: It seems to be the only "sin" that really bothers religious people.

Murder? They hate it and you.

Drug addiction/hurting yourself? This person needs help.

Thievery? They must be having hard times. They need to be corrected.

Homosexuality? Disgusting fucking people that are sick and demonic. All going straight to hell and shouldn't love who they love. It's disgusting.

You'll get guys that are evangelicals coming on TV and saying that natural disasters are because of our acceptance of homosexuality. As if we have an effect on the weather, to begin with. (Sure, in terms of the O-zone and climate. But, that's ethical decisions, not moral decisions.)

Really? Even if our decisions DID have something to do with natural disasters... THAT would be the problem? Gay guys and girls? Not the murder rates climbing? Not wars happening all over the globe? But it's the people buying up all the KY that causes a typhoon? Sure....

I have love for any decent and well-minded human being. Gay or not. I can laugh at a gay joke, and I can laugh at something a gay person can say about straight people. I just don't care about the people that other people decide to love. Choose to love. Or, are born to love. If you do.. honestly, you think about gay people far too much.

Also, for the guy that said something along the lines of, "Gay people shouldn't kiss in public because it's not natural and people would be repulsed."

Let's look at it this way. Let's say you had a really sexy/hot girlfriend. And, to boot, she was an incredibly sweet and nice girl. Also, bright and funny and was successful.

It'd repulse me that she was with you. It'd repulse me that she wasted her time with you and would actually consider kissing you. Because you're an incredibly one-dimensional human being that has unwarranted hatred/dislike for a group of people that you have never collectively met. That repulses me that this hypothetical girl would be with you.

Should you not kiss her in public if I'm around?

Should you be "smart" about it?

I'm repulsed! Don't do that!

Get fuckin' real. If you don't like it, too Goddamn bad. I don't like people hanging their kids in those chest pack carrying devices. Not my business. Unless it's illegal or is somehow changing how I spend my day, no matter what I do to avoid it, then they have the right to do anything they want to.

You're fine with people as long as they talk normally and dress normally? LOL!

Yeah, and I'm fine with rape as long as it's a hot girl that swallows. You don't get to choose, sometimes.

If you don't like the way that they dress and talk... Nobody is asking you to shop and talk with them. Don't associate. But to act as if they should conform for the sake of pleasing YOU, is ridiculous.

I will admit that certain over-the-top behavior can bother me. However, that goes across the board. Because it's not authentic in any case.

I hate straight guys who are walking stereotypes, as well.

"I need to get laid, tonight, bro. I need pussy. I shoot guns and drive a big truck because my big, manly cock won't fit in a Sedan. I have to open the glove box when a friend is driving me around to make room for my shaft and balls."

That pisses me off just as much. So why single out a PORTION of gay people for that type of activity, when a portion of all groups take things too far?

Moving on; How do you tell your parents? As soon as you possibly can. Get it out of the way. Just tell them the truth and tell them that you're still unsure of a lot -- if you are, anyway -- and that you just want their support.

If they don't support you, then at least you know what you're up against. But, I hope for any teenager out there, that they have loving and caring parents.

Easier said than done, I'm sure, but life will be full of those types of moments and there's really no other way to go about things.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

How so? It’s perfectly logical that you have two sides to this argument. On the one half, you have people saying that nature is the cause of one being homosexual. On the other, you have people saying the cause is by nurture. Nature vs. Nurture – this debate has been going on for roughly 20 years or more, dude. It’s nothing new.

You're missing the point. I'm saying it's not logical to take any side n this debate, simply because nobody actually knows. You can't debate something you don't know about. The kind of people who continue this kind of debate are the people who have been bumping heads for 20 years, because the debate literally can't end without some scientific PROOF that gays are or are not biologically programmed to be gay. And there isn't.

But let me ask you something. Do you want to know why this debate has so much attention attracted towards it? The reason stems down to this very answer determining whether society can fully accept gays or not. If a gay were born gay, then naturally, society would have no other option to accept these people as normal people.

That's absolutely not true. If it were true, racism wouldn't exist either.

It’s not their fault they are the way they are because, well, god made them that way. However, if gays AREN’T really born gay; and it’s the factors that I speak of that make one gay, then society will have less of a reason to view them as normal. Instead, they will go with the belief that being gay is nothing more than a mental illness.

I'm having trouble buying this, simply because this entire paragraph implies that you subscribe to a seriously flawed ideal that people will have no choice but to accept homosexuality if it turns out that homosexuality absolutely cannot be helped.

This is why this debate generates so much controversy. It’s either gays are accepted…or they’re not. Of course, people like you and me are aware that gays are just like anyone else – they deserve as much as freedom as we do; and thinking otherwise is asinine. However, society as a whole is unable to accept these people. If they’re not born gay, then there’s no reason to not treat them as lesser of society.

Again, pointing out the comparison between homophobia and racism. We KNOW you can't do anything about race. If you were born black, you're going to be black for the rest of your life, regardless of what you do with your skin (inb4michaeljacksonjokes). Yet these people continue to experience racism, today, in the beginning of 2011.

But opinions can be wrong.

I assume you mean "can't" because I just said they can be wrong. If you actually meant "can," then please disregard this next paragraph.

Yes, opinions can be wrong.

"In my opinion, evolution doesn't exist."
"In my opinion, gravity doesn't exist."
"In my opinion, God is real."
"In my opinion, Glenn Beck is a liberal."

All of these observations can be conclusively proven wrong. These are not opinions. These are statements prefixed with, "in my opinion." Regardless of the prefix, these statements can be proven incorrect, even if they can't be proven right now.

Yes, we aren't 100% sure God doesn't exist, but at one point in the future, whether it be tomorrow, or a million years from now, we're going to know, conclusively, without a shadow of a doubt, that God either exists, or he doesn't. That doesn't mean the person making this statement isn't any less right or wrong.

Why not? Opinions are formed so that they can be expressed out in the general public and/or are tested if they are theories or hypothesis. When two opinions collide, a debate forms to see which is right and which is wrong. Without taking shots in the dark and forming opinions, society would not function the way it does today – it’d most likely be much more primitive.

Everything from the bolded statement is simply incorrect, dude-man.

An opinion and a hypothesis are mutually exclusive. You can not scientifically test an opinion. Also, debates don't exist to prove one guy right or wrong. They exist as a form of expressing opposing opinions between two or more people.

One of the biggest things about society today, is the shifting of the definition of "opinion". An opinion is a subjective expression about something. "Linkin Park is a good band," "Picasso was a great artist," "That hamburger was delicious," -- these are all examples of opinions. These can change from person to person.

"I believe evolution is false," -- This can not be changed from person to person. Evolution isn't going to become any less true if someone doesn't believe in it. It's just going to make the disbeliever incorrect.

This doesn’t disprove anything of what I say. It’s just telling me the life of an individual. I’m talking about people who dislike being gay – the people that go through therapy to change the way they are. A good portion of these people ultimately end up having a flexible sexual orientation. They may not be completely converted, but they are living better lives now then they were before.

If you can give me an example of a homosexual who doesn't want to be homosexual, it would be greatly appreciated. I've never heard of this before. Unless it has to do with being a homosexual, and not wanting to be due to heavy pressure coming from his environment, then that's more understandable. But if you know of someone living in a completely supporting environment, who wants to change who they are as a person, then by all means, please give me an example.

So like as in biological? Again, there is no proof for that. Therefore, as of right now, thinking that way is but an opinion that has yet to be proven false or right.

I never said there was. It was simply an example.

The difference is that you KNOW they exist. Common knowledge is different from theories that have no evidence to prove it.

Okay. I've yet to encounter an alien. But if scientific theories are correct, then there's an almost 100% chance life on other planets, and in other galaxies exist.

What about them? These other species are far below humans in terms of evolution so there shouldn’t be made any comparisons. Animals display rash behavior that should not be the guideline by which we live. Many species of animals will engage with homosexual behavior to show that they are higher in the pecking order – not like humans for pleasure.

How do you figure? I would say a bird's ability to fly, or a fish's ability to swim fall a lot higher than us on the evolutionary totem pole. Sure, we have a might higher capacity for coherent thought and expression, as well as a fantastic ability to advance as a species, but our bodies pretty much suck. We're pretty much stuck to dry land.

But that's not even the point. The point is, homosexuality is a purely instinctual act for animals, and it's only natural to think that it's an instinctual thing for homosexual behavior in humans. Also, humans don't have sex for pleasure. We have sex to reproduce. Pleasure is just an added perk. A gift given to us by evolution, if you will.

A cat wanting to hunt small objects is totally different from a man (or woman) being programmed to be gay. What a cat does on its daily life is instinct.

The notion that human attraction to males or females has nothing to do with instinct is absolutely absurd.

What a human mind would do if it were created gay would be the functions of a robot. They’d be programmed to be that way. Therefore, biology controls the sexual orientation one has and ultimately, the destiny that they will have when it comes to attraction to the other sex, same sex, or both. Such ideology is absurd. Biology can’t be what influences what it is that we’re attracted to. Sure, it can influence other things such as the color of our hair – the way we look. But our mind; our thoughts – we decide what goes on in their – not what some stupid gene(s) tells us.

Again, you're speaking as if we have the mental capacity to deviate from what we're biologically programmed to do. The influence is ALWAYS going to be there, whether you like it or not. Your genes aren't your annoying mother, always pestering you with chores, and threatening punishment. Your biological makeup is making you WANT to have sex with women, which is why it's theorized that something is wrong with the biological makeup of homosexuals to some extent that's making them WANT to have sex with their own gender.

Our genes make up what's going on in our minds.

No answer means there's no evidence to it existing.

Uh...

We don't have an answer for God. We don't have an answer for black holes. We don't have an answer for UFOs. We don't have an answer for dreams. We don't have an answer for hysteria. We don't have an answer for pretty much anything that goes on at a submolecular level.

Don't take this personally, but this is a piss poor argument. You can't make ANY conclusions based on a lack of evidence. You draw scientific conclusions by the evidence you FIND, not the evidence you don't.

 

[HBK-aholic]

My child can be gay if they like, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I'd likely worry a little more due to the amount of homophobia in the world, some shown even in this thread, but I'd never want my child to feel like they couldn't be themselves around me or anyone else. I want my children to be as happy as is possible - why would I ever want them to hide their sexuality from me, or anyone else, and be sad or depressed because of it? Any parent who would want that isn't a very good one.

As for whether being homosexual is a choice - of course it isn't. I fail to understand why someone would choose something which is bound to have them feeling excluded from society at some point in their life, maybe even abused/attacked/killed by strangers. I really don't think HOW they become homosexual is all that important, and certainly not as important as it's made out to be. MUCH more effort should be put into changing the mindsets of those ignorant homophobes as opposed to whether there's a 'gay gene'.