Gay marriage

[Slyfox696]

I agree with you evansnowwolf. Nobody is gona say anything angainst this because they know there outnumbered here at wrestlezone. It's funny how these people post these, with the intent of getting a good discussion with different views, so they can argue and prevail with there beliefs. But nobody is arguing with them. If I say anything, given the amount of posters for gay rights, I'll end up posting for days. I have things to do.

It's not our fault that there are ignorant people in the world today who still think that others are inferior based upon genetics.

I have not once criticized anyone for their beliefs, I've just told them how unfair it is to treat people differently based upon pre-determined genetics. I've even proposed that we should allow marriage to be between man and woman, but hold no state benefits. To gain state benefits, you have to engage in a civil union, no matter who your partner is. That way, the religious part of marriage is saved, but all people are treated equal.

But, there are those who don't believe that people should be treated equal, and to be honest, I really don't care about whose feelings I might hurt fif their feelings are ones of intolerance and prejudice.



Like is about to be said, if you can give a GOOD reason for why people should be treated unfairly based upon genetics, then so be it. The simple fact is that there is no excuse for unfair treatment of people based upon their genetics.

I would like to think that if you can come up with a rational, logical view clearly stating why you are against said topic, then at least people will respect that.

Ok, here I go

NB. I am speaking of Australia in this, I cant and wont speak for any other countries.

I am not for gay marriage and it is due to the word marriage. Whether we like it or not marriage is historically a religious event with religious meaning and in this day religion still has a major influence on a great deal on political and social views and outcomes. Also if history has shown us anything it is that religion is not really tolerant when it comes to so called alternative lifestyles, by that I am referring to the GLBT section of society. Although I am aware that there are religions out there that acknowledge and respect all people, regardless of differences, these are in the minority.

Getting back on track, as long as religion is still a dominant force in society I highly doubt that the gays will ever be allowed to be married and have that marriage recognised by the state.
Civil unions and equal rights are a different question altogether IMO and I believe they are just around the corner here in Oz.

Although even if my boyfriend and I could get married, I would honestly choose not to and I know he feels the same way, simply because of the religious history associated with marriage. I view marriage as just a piece of paper, my boy knows I love him, and I want him to know that I am with him because I want to be, not because some piece of paper says I should be. Also as many people have said before these days getting married pretty much equates to shite when you consider the revolving door at the divorce court.

I cannot speak for others but all I want is the same rights, legally, that any hetero couple have, eg. super, medical proxy, wills, tax. and I am fully aware that I have totally contradicted myself but while I have the freedom to be who I want to be then unfortunately so does the church, which means that I do not want them to force their beliefs onto me, I cannot in all good conscience ask them to perform something they dont want.

In summary marriage, no thanks. Some other word that pretty much means the same thing minus the religous attachment yes, but I do not wish to partake but that doesnt mean that others shouldnt be able to.

As I've said, I have no problem preserving marriage as a religious institution for man and woman. So, what you do is remove all state benefits from marriage. Marriage becomes a religious ceremony only. Instead of marriage, civil unions now receive all the benefits from the state. And if a couple is married, the only way they receive state benefits is engaging in a civil union. That way everyone is treated equally.

 

[Deexter Jorgan]

The way i see this situation is simple, if a married couple of the opposite sex can get all the benefits such as tax breaks and celebrate there union being one so to speak, why not homosexuals, i have no problem with that, my religion teaches me that its wrong but personally im ok with it, gay rights have been a big part of our ever changing society and people keep going on about racism, well about sexual preference ism, people cant see things on way and ask for rights then deny someone else those same rights its emorally wrong, and isnt something as a society we should past down to our children, as our society ever changes we need to face facts we will see more cultures more differences in our society and we can either do two things, shun them or give them a chance to build there lives and i for one would never shun anyone as long as they are not harming people

Thats my two cents

 

[wzf2]

Because posting for days about something is generally called a debate.

It depends how many days. When I say days, I don't mean "2" days. Enough to quilify the "s" in days. I mean a long amount of days. What, did you think I meant a short amount of days when I said days? Typical smart alec remark from a liberal. What are you gona come up with something else to "show me." Leave me alone. Anyway I got to go watch the cavs and celtics game, so goodbye.

 

[kiriyama]

I may be atheist, but as the Christians say, "If God wanted a man to be with another man, he would have made Adam and Steve not Adam and Eve... but God would have made Amanda and Eve if he hadn't already created with Adam."

 

[kieran_devlin]

In the Catholic church it is not homosexual to love another man it is actually encouraged. However gay sex is not allowed because this goes against the creation of life and the sanctity of sex.

Sex however people think of it is ultimately for the creation of life the church says Gay sex goes against this.

Gays/homosexuals/lesbians cannot get married under the eyes of God because marriage is the union between opposite sexes to pronounce their love to God and his people, marriage is the basis of creation generally marriage is between couples who would want to have children or already have children.

Civil partnerships can be between any sex or no sex. It is the union of two individuals a recognition of partnership under the eyes of the state.

 

[CaseyisBA52'sGFnow]

i have no problem with gay people it just so happens i love lesbians
especialy hot blonde lesbians i dont care for them getting married
BUT im tired of seeing to Gay men kissing in public it makes me sick
they always start tongue wrestling when your trying to eat it ridiculous
mr and my lady friend dont do that shit in public WHY because no one wants to
see it even thou she is hot and the losers probably fantasise about her
but thats not the point . if i see one more gay man kiss another gay man
in my presence i will Drop the Homos like a Cow at a meat Factory

 

[Uncle Phatso]

There is a point were homosexuality and gay marrage are ok and arent ok. Caseyismy gf you went to far with that last post, No man or woman should be killed for there own belief's. In some countrys its illegal, Some it comes with a jail sentance, And in some it comes with the death penelty. But my point on gay marrage is I dont want to see 2 dudes kissing, But if they do so fucking what? Omfg there kissing kill them, I wont say that ill go on my marry damn way and forget about it.

If 2 men or 2 wemon want to be married go for it. For about 3 years i lived by 3 lesbians, The nicest people you would ever want to meet, But 3 of the butch'est leasbians you would ever meet. I went fishing with them, Played a little bit of sports. Hell i went to the mall with them and talked about chicks walking by or whatnot just to have fun. The one woman had a kid to and she understood that her mother was lesbian. Strait out when she asked her mom told her about it and told her that she was lesbian.

My problems with gays and lesbians, Is this. The one's that want to have kids but don't want to talk to there kids about it. OR if there kids are getting teased about it at school and dont have the sence to talk to the school about it and just let it happen. That how suicide's happen. IF I was gay and my children asked about it I would strait out tell them, The facts on it and that I was gay.

I live by a couple right now down the block that have 2 foster kids and have had them since they were babys. No problems there but there 12 and turning 13 in 2 weeks now. And The still dont no about there moms being lesbian, That there parents choice, But when I see there kids getting teased about it at school and have no clue what the other kids are talking about it pisses me off.

 

[Dark Blaze]

I personally have no problems with homosexuals, it's their choice to do what they want, if they wanna get married, let them, it's no business of mine. Sure, I admit, I may get slightly weirded out of two dudes kissing ( never two girls..hypocritical, I know) , but i'd simply ignore them, rather than some individuals who may get violent or disrespectful, they're humans like us all, they have their rights, and I respect that.

However, I have had some bad encounters with some homosexuals- the really flamboyant ones, dress feminine, act so..normally I'd have no problem with that. But some here, are very disrespectful and seek conflicts with individuals for little to no reason, go around being all loud and trying to draw attention to themselves. However, I am not generalizing homosexuals, just like heterosexuals, there are bad bunches.

 

[Murfish]

As far as my view on gay marriage. As far as I am concerned I have no problem with homosexual marriage. They should have the same rights that everyone else has in this government. The thing is that marriage is not purely a religious thing. If it were you wouldn't be able to be married by a judge. When people talk about the sanctity of marriage I believe they are referring more so to the sacrament of matrimony, which is different from marriage. Matrimony as a sacrament should not be infringed upon because it is of the church. The church really doesn't have to change and adapt to the views of the majority because the hierarchy of the church(catholic) is set up from the top down. In essence the government should let homosexuals do their own thing, it should also let the church do it's own thing.

2. Marriage vs Civil Unions. Ok, so there is "compromise" giving gay couples the rights and benefits of marriage but refusing to grant the title "marriage." What the fuck? This is such elitest, pretentious garbage, and for some reason, it is because it violates "the sanctity of marriage." More on that in a moment. But the government SHOULD grant benefits between gay, consenting adults - so just let them be "married." This is the same type of bullshit black people went through during the "three-fifths compromise," where blacks were compromised to be regarded as three-fifths of a person, and thus their vote was worth three-fifths of a white vote.
Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-fifths_compromise. Why should gays have to compromise and settle for "marriage light" because the straight people don't want to share a title?

Irish Canadian, I respect you as a poster and as a person. I respect and agree with most of your points, but I don't think you got the point of the 3/5ths compromise(that or you didn't express your point clearly). If the 3/5ths compromise gave black 3/5ths the vote of a white person, that would mean slaves could vote.

The main issue that caused the compromise to be developed was that the South wanted slave to be considered property and slaves to be counted as people when determining population(for House of Representatives). The North did not support slavery, but they figured that if slaves were considered property in the eyes of the law then they shouldn't be counted as people in the population. Neither side was willing to budge, and being that it was the constitutional convention(kind of important) people moved to find compromises between small states and large states(Great/Connecticut Compromise) as well as between slave and free states. The Three Fifths Compromise stated that slaves would be treated as property and that five slaves would count as three free people in a census. Slaves still could not vote and had no rights as a citizen.



This was not meant in anyway to offend you, but only to inform you about the US government. Sorry if I you meant that in the first place.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Murfish, first off there is no offense taken at all and never will be. I don't claim to know everything about everything, and the debate is what gets me going. Some of the people I respect the most on these boards are the ones who disagree with me most vehemently, such as Xfear, Sly, Will, Norcal, and Jake.

My intent drawing a parallel between the "Civil Union" compromise and the 3/5ths compromise of slave days was simply to show that this is not the first time those in power or "The religious right and religious white," have tried to get sub-cultures, separatists, and human beings with racial or sexual differences to "settle" for something less than what they deserve. I think it's a bit of a slap in the face. Some call it "progress." But civil unions attempt to deflate the energy of the protests and lawsuits by getting many of the people seeking equal rights for gays to settle.

I hope that elaborates my point better, but I welcome any rebuttles - agreement, dissention, or otherwise.

 

[Sparky]

it really doesnt bother me if they want to get married so what? its not like its going to bother anyone at all and why should it. all marriage is nowdays is two rings anyway. i dont see what the big deal is. i know everyone is aloud to have their own opinion but it realy is none anyones busness exept the two partners if they are in love regardless of gender they shouldnt have to hide it

 

[kieran_devlin]

Marriage is the union of a male and a female under the eyes of GOD.
Civil Partnership is a recognition of to peoples love in state recognition. Not like US state i mean like UK meaning government like all government.

I dont think 2 males should be partners, sure they can love each other i encourage that there is nothing homosexual about loving your fellow man but actual homosexuality is something i do not agree with. Animals dont have homosexual relations why should humans.

If you say "if they keep it private" then that should apply for anything. If we dont know about it it still dosnt make it right we just cant see it.

See my previous posts aswell.

Dose anyone else actually not think Homosexuality is okay?

 

[a7xoff]

Marriage is the union of a male and a female under the eyes of GOD.
Civil Partnership is a recognition of to peoples love in state recognition. Not like US state i mean like UK meaning government like all government.

I dont think 2 males should be partners, sure they can love each other i encourage that there is nothing homosexual about loving your fellow man but actual homosexuality is something i do not agree with. Animals dont have homosexual relations why should humans.

If you say "if they keep it private" then that should apply for anything. If we dont know about it it still dosnt make it right we just cant see it.

See my previous posts aswell.

Dose anyone else actually not think Homosexuality is okay?

Before I go into my opinion.... I work with animals every day of my life... They do have homosexual relations. So by that logic... If animals can humans can.

As far as my point.... Bear with me it's my first chit chat post in a long time so it may not be too good. Now my opinion on Gay marriage is that it is ok. I mean no I don't encourage it, but if a guy loves a guy or a girl loves a girl, then why the Hell not let them be married. People today make homosexualtiy seem like a huge deal, like it's something realitivly new. It's not though. Homosexuality has been with man kind dating back as far as ancient Greece. It's all nature. Is it the correct way things should be? No. In my opinion males should love females, but I am not biased or against anyone who does not feel that way. One of my closest friends is gay, and all that homosexuality means to me is a difference of views. That's it. If two men want to get married. Let them. If that is what makes them happy, then let them. Part of America is supposed to be pursuit of happiness. By denying gay marriage... Isn't America denying certain people happiness?

 

[kieran_devlin]

If a dog fucks a male dog it might not know it was male this is usually what happens or it is horny as hell.

Its not like animals have hugely deep homosexual relations and stay partners for life. What i was getting at was animals dont stay gay partners for life they might gay fuck but thats about it.

No one should be forced to not be gay it shouldnt be against the law sure it is frowned upon and i would prefer it to not be but im not gonna stop someone, yet i wont encourage or anything or say oh its okay or support someone.

We cant deny gay marriage because gay marriage is impossible people call it marriage when its really a civil partnership. Gays cant get married in the church for reasons i accept. Some Christian churches might have gay marriage but they are in the minority. They are going against the views of the faith. Half the time they are only Christian because they believe in Jesus they do not have the same beliefs.

 

[a7xoff]

If a dog fucks a male dog it might not know it was male this is usually what happens or it is horny as hell.

Its not like animals have hugely deep homosexual relations and stay partners for life. What i was getting at was animals dont stay gay partners for life they might gay fuck but thats about it.

No one should be forced to not be gay it shouldnt be against the law sure it is frowned upon and i would prefer it to not be but im not gonna stop someone, yet i wont encourage or anything or say oh its okay or support someone.

We cant deny gay marriage because gay marriage is impossible people call it marriage when its really a civil partnership. Gays cant get married in the church for reasons i accept. Some Christian churches might have gay marriage but they are in the minority. They are going against the views of the faith. Half the time they are only Christian because they believe in Jesus they do not have the same beliefs.

See this is for another discussion... On the part of animals... Most animals are not partners for life... However I have seen homosexual animals... Actually work with a pair of... The two of them are literally life long mates... Again that's for a different discussion...

Please explain to me how it's impossible. I mean if it's so impossible then how come states are legalizing it. I'm Christian, and I know that man is supposed to love a woman according to God. However no one is perfect. People have their own views. If people all did exactly what God tells them, we'd all be the same person. The fact that homosexuals can get married in a church... Though it is the minority right now shows that it is possible. Who are we as people to deny homosexuals the right to marry one another. Perhaps not in a church if it becomes a religious issue, but other places hold marriages as well. Outside of religion... I don't see what the big deal is, and I have yet to meet anyone who can give me a legit reason outside of religion that makes it wrong for a homosexual to be who they are.

 

[X]

Wow Kieran...just wow.

You don't agree with homosexuality huh? Do you disagree with the theory of gravity as well? It's not something you can "agree" with, because it's simply a fact of life. You probably disagree with the "theory" of evolution as well don't you?

Okay, a few things here.

1: There are homosexual animals who don't just fuck each other because they were horny.

2: Marriage is not an entirely religious institution, do you just think that all Athiests and Agnostics don't get married or something?

3: Keep your homophobic views to yourself.

Have a good day.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Should gay couples be allowed to adopt?​

I've seen some really good debates in this thread, great work guys. Now I want to add a new spin off to this topic, which I think goes togeter quite nicely. Should they be allowed to adopt children? There are many children in this world that need adopting, and I don't think we should stop people adopting due to their sexual origin.

Gay parents would make just as good parents as heterosexual couples in my opinion. And everyone should be able to adopt regardless of that. The fact people want to adopt shows how much they really do want a child, meaning the child will be greatly looked after. Moreso maybe than a couple who have given birth themselves.

As I've said before, I don't think gender should stop love, and therefore that also goes when it comes to looking after children. It may be a little hard to explain at first, however when you think about it it just works against homophobic people, as more children will be growing up seeing being gay as also a natural option.

 

[Father:_Polley]

I want to address something with this thread. I've stayed out of it so far because to be honest, I don't need anyone to turn around and say my opinion doesn't matter because it disagrees with what others think. So with that in mind, so what kieran's opinions don't agree with yours xfear. He's as entitled to hold his opinions as you are.

I admit i dont approve or endorse homosexuality, but last I checked that was my business and doesn't make me an awful person. I don't treat anyone differently because of who they are, but I don't have to approve of their choices in life.

Anyway, I'm done.

 

[a7xoff]

I fully believe that gay/lesbian couples should be able to adopt. Odds are they won't be able to have kids on their own, so why not allow them to adopt? The only reason I would say no to this is because of the kid's childhood. It has nothing to do with the parents, but at least in America, I don't know about England, gays are often mocked. I wouldn't want the kid of a gay/lesbian couple to be tortured due to typical sterotypes on their parents. Other than that I have nothing against homosexual couples adopting. It's a great thing and it takes kids out of a generally rough enviorment. As I said, if they do adopt... I just hope that there is a way around the child being mocked in the American school system... Or England, or wherever

 

[Kasey]

Okay. Before I dig deep into my views, understand that I am not religious and do not throw any of that rhetoric into my thought processes. Do I think homosexuality is okay? Sure. For me? No. For those who are genetically predisposed for it? Yeah.

Now, most people that are American that babble on about how gay marriage is a sin don't take a look at the stats involving marriage in this country and that the divorce rate is near 50%. Most people in this country obviously don't even slightly respect the institution of marriage and most of the women are so fucked in the head that they care more about the wedding then they do about actually being married. If they understood the importance around actually having to fight for your right to be married, then they'd likely start to get it and wouldn't dive headlong into a marriage with the first fucking guy dumb enough to tell them "I love you."

I think that everyone should only be allowed to get married once. After that, fuck off. You screw it up and make a mistake, you get to lie in your own puddle of piss. However, if your spouse runs around on you, then that's your get out of jail free card, because they screwed the pooch, not you. Or maybe if you're a widow/widower. Fuck anullments, too. You get drunk and piss away your one chance in Vegas, then too bad, so sad and fuck you very much.

I feel gays should have the same rights and privileges as straights in marriages because it's obvious (in this country at least) that the lot of people don't understand the words "till death do us part." Besides, I wonder what the stats on gay divorce are. Let's go, Google!