"Mom, Dad. I think I'm gay!"

[#hamler]

The oh so touchy journey we're about to embark up on is a thread I've been thinking about doing for quite some time now. LSN helped with some ideas and I went with it. So credit him as well.

While the modern day war over homosexuality may make it seem like homosexuality is a 20th century product, when reality is that our history is filled with homosexual behavior. Indeed, the Spartan troops of ancient Greece were said to have been encouraged to get it on in a homo-centric way so as to strengthen the bonds within their ranks. The sex lives of historical figures such as Alexander the Great, Plato, Hadrian, Virgil Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo and Christopher Marlowe were centred upon relationships with people of their own gender. There's clearly no doubt that homosexuality has left it's mark on our history no matter the country your are from.

But with current situations, Homosexuality seems to be a bigger problem now more than ever. The United States alone is having a huge problem with this right now. While some people think homosexuality makes our country look bad, others will say that not recognizing homsexual marriages goes against what our whole country stands for. Marriage- the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc. Religious ceremony? Wouldn't banning homosexual marriages fuck up our entire 1st admendment? All this confusion and chaos leads to an un-easy feeling during teen years when teenagers really start to explore their sexuality. They don't know who to turn to. Which leads me to the discussion questions.


-Are Homosexuals born this way?

-Or is it something they can help?

-How would an individual go about telling their parents they're homosexual?

-If not explained above, what are your views on homosexuality?


I get that this is a touchy subject. Feel free to bash anyone disagreeing with your view. My views are very strong on this subject. I feel anyone has the right to marry whomever they please. But anyway, here's a pic.

Spoiler

Discuss this shit.

 

[Pole Smoker]

Are homosexuals Born this way ?

No. Not in my opinion anyway. I feel it is the way they are programmed. For instance if they watch certain things on TV, are around certain people I feel it can influence them becoming homosexual.

Or is it something they can help

Well I feel that no matter what every gay person would still have sex with the opposite gender. I have known of gay people to claim they are fully gay but would still have sex with this one certain girl. I think they can help it and can't at the same time. If they are programmed this way then they can't.

How would an individual go about telling their parents their homosexual?

I honestly can't answer this. I have no idea. This is up to them to decide. I have no experience with this situation.

If not explained above what are your opinions on homosexuality?

Well I feel that most gay people I have met are not really gay. I think it is either because they are programmed this way, because they are attention seekers or because they are in a phase. When was the last time you saw a gay Grampa couple?

I feel many teen gays do it for attention. How can they know if they are gay if they have not been with a male or female. They want people to go "oh my god did you know so and so is gay". I know many of these people. They play up to it perfectly. They have a gay hairstyle, gay shoes, gay voice (which kills me inside a little when I hear it), gay jeans etc. They crave attention.

When I said phase I mean that they are only gay for awhile. Some gays in their 20's end up having a straight family when they are older. I have no idea why they go through this phase though.

Also when I said you never see a gay Grampa couple that leads to another point. I feel that the generation of Grampa were tough and manly and had seen wars like WW2 so they pushed that hard throughout the years which lead this generation to rebel. The dad's push them to like girls and be strong so they try and rebel and be gay.

Do I like gays?

Hell no. Why? I have had terrible experiences with these people. Gay people that hit on straight people that they know are straight are most annoying and selfish people I have ever met. Why hit on someone that is straight. That is disrespectful to them and contradicts what they say about straight people not giving them respect.

Also the way they talk in a certain voice just to let people know they are gay is a pain. They wear feminine shoes and skinny as hell jeans and say word like fabulous. It's like get out of my face.

Now I know not all gays are like this but ALL the ones I have met are.

On the other side if they are gay and always will be, are not in my face about it, wear normal clothes, talk in their natural voice then they don't annoy me. They can do it if they want. While I still find it disgusting they don't get on my nerves as they just live their lives and let me live mine. If they adopt then thats great because they are iving a child a chance at a family.

Lastly I would add that they would be making a mistake to kiss in public.It is not natural and people will find it disturbing and repulsive. Thats why they should be smart about it.

I'd just like to add that I mean no offence.I have had bad experiences with gay's.Like when a gay was hitting on me all night.I took it lightly at first but after he had continued i got angry. When he came up and felt my back and leaned in to kiss my cheek I kicked lumps out of him and jumped on his head. You can't take that crap.

These are just my opinions and experiences and I mean no harm or offence.

 

[Ultra Awesome]

I expect to be called stupid for my answer on this subject as I know there will be some people to tell me how wrong I am. But in any case: No. People are not born gay.

Within the past few years or so it's been said that homosexuality is caused by a "gay gene." Years ago, it was thought that the marker xq28 found by Dean Hamer was that gay gene. Unfortunately, later studies have disproved Hamler's theory of the gay gene. Though that didn't stop others from trying to prove that the alleged gay gene was existant. However, most if not all of these tests resulted in flaws and/or were proven false. To put it bluntly, Science has pretty much disproven every single theory that gays are born gay.

With all the prejudices out there, it's easy to understand why they would want something to hold onto that says: "I didn't choose this!" But lets be honest, if a gene exists for homosexuality, there exists a opposite gene for other forms of sexual attraction. From the normal, to the dangerous. Once we start assigning genes to our behaviors, pretty soon everything is excused because of them. By this, I mean the more dangerous behaviors such as: sexual attraction to children, asexual attraction to animals, etc.

People are not born "gay" just as no one is born "straight." It is simply that the society that they are raised in has influenced or forced them into decisions with which they face. In other words, it is the environmental/psychological factors that affect these people into becoming what they are. With that said, I'm not saying being Gay is a choice people make. No, of course not. I'm merely saying that genetics has little to nothing to do with the reason for someone's homosexuality. The real world--the reality that one faces--that's what affects these people to become homosexual.

_________________

With that all said, let me adress that I, myself am not against gays in the very least. I find it perfectly normal that a guy would choose to be with another guy than a woman. Same vise-versa. The morals that I have towards these types of issues are far different than that of the average person. Most people often find it insulting or funny [to insult] that homosexuals live amongst them. I, however believe in equality for all--an equality that should alolw everyone to like who they please. Of course, this little disclaimer excludes pedophilism because that is just...well...wrong and stupid.

As for how does a child confront their parents with such issue: well, that there's a toughy. Not many parents are able to accept that their child is a homosexual. In this department, I honestly have no clue. The best thing is that I can suggest for these people to do what it takes to prove that homosexuality really isn't as bad as many claim it to be. Because, well, it really isn't.

 

[#hamler]

Let's discuss this shit.

Well I feel that no matter what every gay person would still have sex with the opposite gender. I have known of gay people to claim they are fully gay but would still have sex with this one certain girl. I think they can help it and can't at the same time. If they are programmed this way then they can't.

Wow, I've never met a homosexual or lesbian individual to have sex with the opposite gender, unless they are bisexual. And what do you mean "programmed this way"? Gays doint choose to be gay. Just like you don't choose to be straight. You're naturally attracted toi the opposite gender. If homosexuality was the norm, I'm sure you'd be gay too.

Well I feel that most gay people I have met are not really gay. I think it is either because they are programmed this way, because they are attention seekers or because they are in a phase.

Again with the "programmed this way"? who's programming them? And no, they're not gay because they are not attention seekers. Last I checked, gays and lesbians are getting harrassed for their ways. Being gay wouldn't be the best idea then now would it?

When was the last time you saw a gay Grampa couple?

Elton John? Rossie O'Donnel? Or are you talking about the real old people from the 30s or 40s where being gay was looked down upon and promised a lifetime of misery by the KKK or other radical groups? Or what about from the 1960s where a lot of this started? First click on google popped this up--Bod Davis and Henry Schalizki, both 89, have been together for 62 years. They recently got married in Washington DC.--moving on then.

I feel many teen gays do it for attention. How can they know if they are gay if they have not been with a male or female. They want people to go "oh my god did you know so and so is gay".

Highschool. Or even school period. The worst possible place to want people going around talking about you being gay. There are so many deceitful people in school. Why would anyone want to start that shit in highschool?

I know many of these people. They play up to it perfectly. They have a gay hairstyle, gay shoes, gay voice (which kills me inside a little when I hear it), gay jeans etc. They crave attention.

These people? You're treating them like they're a different race. Gays are what the blacks were to the 60s. Look at it like that. People like you, are too narrow minded to see the comparison and don't realize they are discriminating against a certain "race".

When I said phase I mean that they are only gay for awhile. Some gays in their 20's end up having a straight family when they are older. I have no idea why they go through this phase though.

I like how you said some gays go on to have families but then said gays go through a phase. I agree with you, sometimes it is a phase. Its usually a phase during your tennage years. When kids are expirimenting with their sexuality.

Also when I said you never see a gay Grampa couple that leads to another point. I feel that the generation of Grampa were tough and manly and had seen wars like WW2 so they pushed that hard throughout the years which lead this generation to rebel. The dad's push them to like girls and be strong so they try and rebel and be gay.

Already covered this. There are plenty of gay older men.

Hell no. Why? I have had terrible experiences with these people. Gay people that hit on straight people that they know are straight are most annoying and selfish people I have ever met. Why hit on someone that is straight.

They like saiod individual. Its natural to hit on them. Would you hit on a friend's girl if you really liked her? You would. Ah you're so annoying and selfish.

That is disrespectful to them and contradicts what they say about straight people not giving them respect.

Not really. As I said before, people hit on people they like. Straight or gay.

Also the way they talk in a certain voice just to let people know they are gay is a pain. They wear feminine shoes and skinny as hell jeans and say word like fabulous. It's like get out of my face.

Your so stereotypical. Not all gays are like this. Its sad that you expirienced the select few that are. But most aren't. You can't go around say all blacks will rob you or all brown peiople are terrorists. Not all gays act like this. Most gays are actually pretty cool dude.

Now I know not all gays are like this but ALL the ones I have met are.

Ah well dammit, spoke to soon.

On the other side if they are gay and always will be, are not in my face about it, wear normal clothes, talk in their natural voice then they don't annoy me. They can do it if they want.

Whoa whoa whoa!!! So you don't like gays because they annoy you. Why not just say that? That's the most bullshit answer to have ever graced one of my threads. Like I said, you're stereotyping these type of people. I've yet to meet this stereotypical gay. Like I siad before, most are not like this. I don't see what your problem is.

While I still find it disgusting they don't get on my nerves as they just live their lives and let me live mine. If they adopt then thats great because they are giving a child a chance at a family.

Well, you do have a little morals.

Lastly I would add that they would be making a mistake to kiss in public.It is not natural and people will find it disturbing and repulsive. Thats why they should be smart about it.

Mistake?? To kiss in public? Because it's repulsive? Hold on a sec.

Spoiler

Moving on.

I'd just like to add that I mean no offence.I have had bad experiences with gay's.Like when a gay was hitting on me all night.I took it lightly at first but after he had continued i got angry. When he came up and felt my back and leaned in to kiss my cheek I kicked lumps out of him and jumped on his head. You can't take that crap.

Couldn't have happened to a better person.

 

[Loveless]

-Are Homosexuals born this way?

Nature Vs Nuture is never so simple as picking a side. I have always believed they have a genetic pre-disposition towards homosexuality but that doesn't mean it's all done and dusted from the moment they're born. In all likelihood certain enviroments may supercede genetics.
I've used this argument as a way of explaining mental health issues before but imagine twin brothers. Both are carrying the psychosis gene

Brother 1 leads a stress free life and the pre-disposition is never activated.
Brother 2 suffers a trauma that triggers a breakdown

Genetically they're the same but different life experiences change who they are.
So the answer is yes and no. The potential is there, it's just a case of steering.

-Or is it something they can help?

No, nothing they can help. We're not in control of our experiences, things happen to us and we react off that, we can't pre-empt experience because we can't see it or control anything outside of us.
Now if you mean can it be surpressed, hell yes. People have done it for thousands of years. Whether they should have to surpress it is another matter entirely.

 

[Loveless]

Wow, I've never met a homosexual or lesbian individual to have sex with the opposite gender, unless they are bisexual.

I have and I know her very (yes, very) well. She's clearly gay, has been since the moment I met her even though she can't admit it, it's our vagely unspoken thing.
The reason she won't admit it is because she's horrified by the idea. So instead of being faced with the option of being alone forever, she will occasionally go out and find a guy. It never ends well, it's an empty experience for her and she's incredibly sad because of it. For that reason, I'd never encourage someone to hide their sexuality. It's a terribly sad existence.

 

[Disturbed]

I have mixed emotions on gays but before I start I would like to say they are regular people like you or me and shouldn't be treated different then you or me.

I guess I can start by saying that I don't think they were born gay. Many of you will hold up the arguement that they can't help who they like but I think they can. I think that is just how they think. For example, some gay people were raised without a dad, so they didn't have a man in the house to teach them and guide them. Those people act more feminen(pardon my spelling) because they were raised by a female or females without a male. Now they can control who they like and who they don't like, it's just the fact that they don't want to but that doesn't matter because they should have feelings for whichever gender they want. Sorry if I am confusing but I just have mixed feelings about the subject. Some people turn gay because they had no luck with women. So how were they born that way if they used to like girls? I have no problem with homo sexuals, I just don't think they were born that way.

If I was homo sexual, then I would try and talk to my friends about it before family first to try and get some advice about it. I can't really speak on this topic because I don't know what it is like to be in this sitiuation. I just think your family should love you no matter what you are.

I used to be against Homo sexuals but now I realize that it isn't wrong and they are regular people. They are just given a really bad name. Like Orlando Jordan's bisexual gimmick at the moment is really a stereo typed. I don't know if he acts like that in real life but most bisexuals do not. They are normal people and they have feelings to.

My view on Homo Sexual as a whole is that they are normal people and should be wth whoever they love but they need to know the risks involved and what will happen before they take the next step, so just be prepared. Remember, I don't think being gay is wrong but I do think that they weren't born that way. They were born just like straight human beings but that doesn't matter. I used to talk bad about Homo Sexuals but that was before and my thoughts have changed. I no longer, speak bad about them and if you are gay or bisexual then don't let anyone talk you down.

 

[Loveless]

For example, some gay people were raised without a dad, so they didn't have a man in the house to teach them and guide them. Those people act more feminen(pardon my spelling) because they were raised by a female or females without a male.

It's far more complicated than that and it differs between the sexes, before you even start on personality traits. Girls will (providing there are 2 parents) nearly always reject their mother in favour of their father (providing the father is welcoming) between the ages of 5-8. It's complicated stuff but it's about empowerment and resentment, the idea is they then switch back around age 8 at the point that they start to associate with the mother (basically the child realises they're both female and it creates a bond).
Now the issues start when the child doesn't reassign for whatever personal preference. At that point you've got a female who doesn't see herself as "one of the girls" and there's the beginning of a possible issue.
Now there's plenty of other stuff that follows that, the association may come later, puberty can create a rift between father and daughter, sexual experience, sexual abuse, all these things push you in one direction or another. It's not just a simple case of living in a predominantly female house.

 

[LSN80]

Are homosexuals Born this way ?

No. Not in my opinion anyway. I feel it is the way they are programmed. For instance if they watch certain things on TV, are around certain people I feel it can influence them becoming homosexual.

Or is it something they can help

Well I feel that no matter what every gay person would still have sex with the opposite gender. I have known of gay people to claim they are fully gay but would still have sex with this one certain girl. I think they can help it and can't at the same time. If they are programmed this way then they can't.

How would an individual go about telling their parents their homosexual?

I honestly can't answer this. I have no idea. This is up to them to decide. I have no experience with this situation.

If not explained above what are your opinions on homosexuality?

Well I feel that most gay people I have met are not really gay. I think it is either because they are programmed this way, because they are attention seekers or because they are in a phase. When was the last time you saw a gay Grampa couple?

I feel many teen gays do it for attention. How can they know if they are gay if they have not been with a male or female. They want people to go "oh my god did you know so and so is gay". I know many of these people. They play up to it perfectly. They have a gay hairstyle, gay shoes, gay voice (which kills me inside a little when I hear it), gay jeans etc. They crave attention.

When I said phase I mean that they are only gay for awhile. Some gays in their 20's end up having a straight family when they are older. I have no idea why they go through this phase though.

Also when I said you never see a gay Grampa couple that leads to another point. I feel that the generation of Grampa were tough and manly and had seen wars like WW2 so they pushed that hard throughout the years which lead this generation to rebel. The dad's push them to like girls and be strong so they try and rebel and be gay.

Do I like gays?

Hell no. Why? I have had terrible experiences with these people. Gay people that hit on straight people that they know are straight are most annoying and selfish people I have ever met. Why hit on someone that is straight. That is disrespectful to them and contradicts what they say about straight people not giving them respect.

Also the way they talk in a certain voice just to let people know they are gay is a pain. They wear feminine shoes and skinny as hell jeans and say word like fabulous. It's like get out of my face.

Now I know not all gays are like this but ALL the ones I have met are.

On the other side if they are gay and always will be, are not in my face about it, wear normal clothes, talk in their natural voice then they don't annoy me. They can do it if they want. While I still find it disgusting they don't get on my nerves as they just live their lives and let me live mine. If they adopt then thats great because they are iving a child a chance at a family.

Lastly I would add that they would be making a mistake to kiss in public.It is not natural and people will find it disturbing and repulsive. Thats why they should be smart about it.

I'd just like to add that I mean no offence.I have had bad experiences with gay's.Like when a gay was hitting on me all night.I took it lightly at first but after he had continued i got angry. When he came up and felt my back and leaned in to kiss my cheek I kicked lumps out of him and jumped on his head. You can't take that crap.

These are just my opinions and experiences and I mean no harm or offence.

Im sorry dude, but this post is so full of ignorance and bias that it gets me worked up, and Im as straight as an arrow and happily married. I could punch you in the face and say "no offense" right after, but the damage would still be done right? When you objected and called the police on me, I could tell them I meant "no harm" by it! That would work, right? Just about as much as you putting no harm, no offense at the end of this ignorant post. You dont like a guy kissing your cheek? Walk away, call the police, and be the better man that you seem to think you are then homsexuals. Because beating the crap out of the guy was just as wrong. I dont recall the question being in there about whether or not you "like gays" being part of the discussion either man, so keep your freaking prejudice to yourself, would ya? Thanks. Anyway, rant over.

Originally posted by the Hamburglar>
1.Are Homosexuals born this way?

Im in the middle on this one. I believe that some people are, and some people make the choice. Ive known people who knew they were homosexuals from the moment they were born, according to them. Ive also known two women who were tired of man after man treating them like garbage, found empathy in a female friend that was a lesbian, and their orientation suddenly changed. Obviously, there's the old nature vs nurture debate in here, and i guess we'll never truly know.

My only observations that would make me say "no" is that men are made with penises, women vaginas, and they fit well together. Also, homosexuals are unable to procreate of their own volition, so why would the God(however you chose to picture or him, or dont at all) make them this way without giving them the same opportunities that heterosexuals have? If this is the case, then all men truly weren't created equal, as our forefathers have said.

-2.Or is it something they can help?

I don't know. My instincts tell me to say yes, based upon what I know about human sexuality. To go into more detail, I had a feamle friend in graduate school who was dating four men at the same time because she was tired of being screwed over, so she decided the odds were good that one of the four would turn out to be decent. Well, none of them did, according to her, and she wound up turning to another friend of mine that was in the same program(we were all friends, small program) for friendship, and as a result, they formed first an emotional connection, then a sexual one. But I really feel that it was a combination of her being screwed over so many times and the emotional connection she made with the other woman that prompted her change. Im going to say yes, its something that possibly can be helped, because if it works in one direction, why can't it in the other?

3. How would an individual go about telling their parents their homosexual?

This is such a tough question, because every family is different. I once had a client in my work as a therapist that tried to kill himself because he was a homoseexual and saw how his mother treated her brother, who was also gay. He left it in his attempted suicide note, which certainly isnt a way I would recommend. But religion looks down so badly on people that are homosexuals that some feel so cornered and filled with guilt as well that telling their family becomes near impossible, so they're stuck burying their feelings. From my experience, thats generally never a good thing.

As for me, Im 28, so I would just straight out tell them. I would probably due it in a flippant and nonchalant way because thats how I view it: No big deal. My parents are religious(for lack of a better word) and believe homsexuality is wrong, but that doesn't mean what they think would matter all that much to me, even though I love and respect them. I would just tell them in a lighthearted manner, but thats just me.

Obviously that wouldnt work for everyone, as their feelings toward how they feel about their parents knowing may differ. Some, like me, wouldn't care whatsoever. But for those who would, the saying of honesty is the best policy works here. If your parents opinion matters and them not knowing would bother you, then one needs to be straightforward and tell them. Even if theres some semblance of backlash, I think that would subside over time, where the feelings of frustration and anxiety of them NOT knowing would not.

4.If not explained above what are your opinions on homosexuality?

This is a loaded question and I think Hamler added this one at the last minute because he knows me decently well and wanted to get me heat. Last time I give you a thread idea!

Anyway, anyone whose read my posts on here especially in the Cigar Lounge know that Im a Christian. Im not a Christian in the traditional sense that I look at the Bible and say "God says it, I believe it", because the Bible is pretty strong in its views on homosexuality and other things Im somewhat ambiguous about. In the Old Testament, you would get stoned to death. In the New Testament, Paul noted homosexuals will be denied access to heaven because of the act.

I don't know, as I stated above, men were born with a penis and women a vagina, and they fit quite well together. Its always worked out well when Ive tried it with my wife. Homosexuals aren't born with any "traditional" ways to have sex, and have to use unconvential methods, especially women. Theres also no way for them to naturally procreate, so it makes me wonder why God or whatever way you believe that made humans come to be didn't allow for this option. JUst a thought, nothing more.

But personally speaking, I dont really have an opinion other then the pne I stated above. I know and obviously have friends in the past who are homsexual, but mostly female. My opinion on them didn't change as their orientation did. They're still human being with thoughts, feelings, and emotions, and they deserve to be treated with the same respect and dignity I as a heterosexual would like to be treated with.

 

[SalvIsWin]

No. Not in my opinion anyway. I feel it is the way they are programmed. For instance if they watch certain things on TV, are around certain people I feel it can influence them becoming homosexual.

No. People are not born gay.

Within the past few years or so it's been said that homosexuality is caused by a "gay gene." Years ago, it was thought that the marker xq28 found by Dean Hamer was that gay gene. Unfortunately, later studies have disproved Hamler's theory of the gay gene. Though that didn't stop others from trying to prove that the alleged gay gene was existant. However, most if not all of these tests resulted in flaws and/or were proven false. To put it bluntly, Science has pretty much disproven every single theory that gays are born gay.

I guess I can start by saying that I don't think they were born gay. Many of you will hold up the arguement that they can't help who they like but I think they can. I think that is just how they think. For example, some gay people were raised without a dad, so they didn't have a man in the house to teach them and guide them. Those people act more feminen(pardon my spelling) because they were raised by a female or females without a male. Now they can control who they like and who they don't like, it's just the fact that they don't want to but that doesn't matter because they should have feelings for whichever gender they want. Sorry if I am confusing but I just have mixed feelings about the subject. Some people turn gay because they had no luck with women. So how were they born that way if they used to like girls? I have no problem with homo sexuals, I just don't think they were born that way.

The current evidence and literature on whether homosexuals, lesbians, and bisexuals are born this way, adopt behaviours based on childhood, or a mix of the both actually suggests the opposite of what every one in this thread has stated. There is no evidence for a 'gay gene', or a specific part of the brain that determines whether or not you're going to be gay or not, but the evidence and research strongly suggests that whatever the cause, the cornerstones lie within the prenatal environment; in other words before they are born. It's fine to have your own opinion on the matter, but just be aware that the evidence goes against what you're saying.

So with that in mind, homosexual, lesbian, and bisexual behaviour and tenencies are developed and set in the prenatal environment, but through what means and causes we are yet unsure of. Therefore the only logical conclusion would be that these people are born this way. Anything set within the prenatal environment is very difficult to influence or change, so it's unlikely that this behaviour can be changed if so desired.

How would an individual go about telling their parents that they're gay?

Honestly, there's likely no easy way to do it. Your parents are either going to be upset, not upset, or a mixture. If it's a mixture, or they are accepting, you're probably OK and it will just take them time to adjust. If they're upset, you can try to change their beliefs by telling them what evidence suggests, and point out their warped logic in believing that there is something wrong with being gay, but beyond that there's nothing else you can do. It's tough to do, but I think being true to yourself and seeing who can handle it is the only way to go about coming out. Understandably if you suspect your parents would disown you then you would be scared, so it might be best to look out for yourself and wait to come out when you can sustain yourself, but I don't think hiding it is healthy.

What are your views on homosexuality?

There's really not a lot of issues that I feel really strongly towards, but two issues that I definitely have strong feelings about are gay marriage/rights, and religion/Atheism. There is no good reason to be against homosexuality. Until there is proven adverse effects, to hold a negative belief against gay persons is idiotic. People try to come up with a lot of different reasons, and the research and evidence always comes back to show that they are wrong. Allegations of gays being poor parents, of raising children that grow up to also be gay, and things of the like have been researched and been shown to be without merit. How you can look at the research and evidence and still feel this way is actually ridiculous.

The only somewhat, but still weak argument, would be that it's dictated within your religion that homosexuality is wrong, however that opens up a whole new realm of warped logic. Personally, if your holy book is the best argument you have to defend your intolerance, you might want to reconsider your position. One consolation is that people seem to be more accepting every day, and that's a start.

 

[Smartie]

I'm living in some country where homo and bi people are really silent about their interests and actions , therefore I haven't had any real contact with them in order to talk about them, But based on what I've read , heard and seen about homosexuality , I can tell that :

Are Homosexuals born this way?

I think they're not born this way , they've become what they are.

Let's face it , Are gay people physically different from the others?Not at all.

So sexual orientation,or I'd better say sexual preference is a mental subject.

Does anyone born with mental issues?No.Just pretty much like people grow and learn to use their eyes to see and their ears to listen , boys learn they've got a dick to fuck girls and girls have got a vagina to be on the side of the action.

I think people will grow up normally straight , and It's not because they're raised in a society which forced them to , but because they are born like that.At early ages which there were no society ,most of people were still straight.

Therefore,I think there's only 2 ways for some people to be gay. 1)We accept being homo as some kind of a disease or disability which I think is wrong and I'm sure gays do too.2)They simply choose to swim against the flow , for whatever reason.They're not born this way.They choose to do the unusal thing,as a lot of people choose to do unusual things.

Or is it something they can help?

They definitely can help.They just need to be introduced to a sweet girl , in case they're a guy , and vice versa.

I've not met a 100% full time gay person , but I've met guys who thought they're not attracted to girls , or have more interest in boys , and their problem was just that they have not had met the right girl.

It's natural if some guy doesn't find his favorite in girls , start to look among the other half to find it.

-How would an individual go about telling their parents they're homosexual?

I really don't know.But whatever they do , they really shouldn't expect a warm or supportive reaction.I mean if their parents were this way , He or she wasn't even born!

I think they should just go and tell , and from that point It's parents' mission to find out the reason and help out the guy.

If not explained above, what are your views on homosexuality?

I certainly have no problem with gay people or people being gay unless it starts to mess with things.

One example is gay people hitting on you.Although I haven't experienced it literally but It's really annoying and disgusting.This kinda stuff is what makes some people hate these guys.

The other thing is that some people consider every little bit of unusual behavior ,sex wise,as a sign of one is gay.

Some times some boys(girls) show a little girlish(boyish) attitude , But It really doesn't mean that they're homos.

That's the problem I have with gays being able to do everything in public.When you look at it , You see nothing wrong with it and you really can't.But I think these people must try to keep their stuff to themselves as much as possible.

I used to hate people in USA who didn't want a homosexual be their children's teacher , but I found out about some teacher who tried to talk about homosexuality whit her students and kinda get them to become one.There's no problem with a homo being a teacher,But If you're a homo teacher , you MUST keep that to yourself.

I don't call these people sick , I call the unusual , and I'm Okay with it , unless they try to make other people unusual too.That's the reason I think they'd better not make out in public , because it may and it will affect other people's lives , and sometimes in a really bad way.Just keep it to yourself.It's not a big request,It's a fair request.

The bottom-line is , I can stand some guy thinking that he's a homo,I can't stand a guy being proud of it or trying to make other people to become one.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I don't have a problem with homosexuals. It doesnt bother me who they decide to have sex with, it's their business. I dont particularly like it, I don't really like seeing 2 men kissing but as long as it doesnt negatively affect my own life, why would I be against it? It is up to the person who they want to be with, same as it is my decision to choose my partner.

I am kinda on the fence with the Gay Marriage situation. While I do agree with the argument that if we are accepting homosexuality as perfectly fine (which I think we should), then why shouldn't two gay men be able to adopt an orphaned child? This would be giving the child a chance at a better, more privaliged home life from two loving people, no matter their gender.

The alternative view, which I can also understand, is that the child will undoubtably suffer terrible bullying in school from other kids once they find out he has no Mum and two Dads, and knowing how cruel schoolkids can be this is almost certain to happen. I saw kids at my school being really badly bullied for smaller thins than this. However, the question must be asked....is having two Dads and being bullied for a while over it worse than having no family life at all? My answer would probably be NO. So, while it will be harder for the child having two parents of the same gender, their life will still probably be better than it would have been in an orphanage.

Do I think people are born gay? I am unsure on this, although I do think that some boys are born with more feminine tendancies. Is it due to differing levels of hormones or testosterone or something similar? I dont know, but I think that your perspective and sexual orientation is definitely influenced by your upbringing, surroundings and things that you see and hear as well as the possibility that some people or born in certain ways, but I am of course no expert on the topic.

I know a guy who was brought up by his Mum and Grandma with no male influence...and yes he is gay. He had no father figure in his life to teach him how to be a man. He doesnt like sports, listens to girlie music and has an incredibly feminine voice. I do think that this has been influenced by who he was brought up by, even though it was an incredibly loving family and he is very happy. Personally, I believe that my Dad helped me to become the man I am today by providing me with a balanced, normal family life with exposure to masculine things as well as the more feminine things my Mum likes. Therefore I turned out straight. Plus, being around other Males helped me to in my exposure to girls as sexual interests.

If I had lived in a house with no-one but women, hearing them saying how attractive Male X or Male Y was, and having no interests in sports, rock music or male fashions, and hearing very few male voices on a day-to-day basis, then I think my outlook and sexual interests would quite easily have been different. I am not saying I am the most macho man in the world, I am not, just a normal guy, but I do honestly think my thought processes would be altered had I not had a regular upbringing. I think if you looked up how many people brought up by women turned out gay I reckon the perecentage would be higher than the percentage of gay people who had balanced home lives with a Mum and a Dad.

Also, I think in todays more forgiving society, that the number of celebrities who have come out as gay has influenced people and they think it more acceptable to be gay. Whether I am right or wrong on this I don't know but it is just my personal opinion on the subject.

Another reason why I think some people are not born gay is the fact that the lesbian girls I know only came out in their late teen years having never been able to get a boyfriend in school due to the fact they are fat and unnattractive. I do think that sometimes people choose to be gay in order to find a partner, as they have been unsuccessful in attracting anyone of the opposite sex. This is fine, again their choice but it backs up my initial thoughts.

I have not had that much exposure to homosexual people in my life, I have 2 gay friends although they are not close friends, and I do not see them regularly and there were a couple of other gay guys in my year at school. I see no reason to mock these people, as some do, because as long as they do not keep chatting me up after being told I'm straight then they can do what they want can't they? The only things I dislike about gays is the fact that just because they are gay, these people feel the need to use a high-pitched feminine voice with feminine movements/walking style etc. You talked normally about a year ago before you came out, so why change it now? I think this voice is quite often faked as a way of fitting in with the other homosexuals. And it grates my ears, I cannot stand it. This is just the same as a straight guy trying to fit in with a group of friends by altering the way he talks to sound similar to the rest of the gang, and is something that really bugs me. You shouldn't need to do this to fit in with people.

Also, on 2 occasions a guy has tried to chat me up, and after politely telling them I am straight and I am not interested, they insist on keep trying, stroking my chest and trying to kiss me. Obviously, this has resulted in me losing my temper and being asked to leave (or thrown out) of a club.

So, as long as you dont try to kiss me after being told to go away, then feel free to do whatever you want. Other than what I just mentioned, I don't have a problem with it.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

-Are Homosexuals born this way?

No, surely it's a matter of personal experience through upbringing and individual brain chemistry.

Emotions are literally nothing more than chemical reactions in the brain. A homosexual person's brain chemistry would probably differ somewhat from a straight persons, otherwise they wouldn't naturally do the opposite of what everyone else naturally does.

Or is it something they can help?

Why should they have to? Why can't the world simply accept them for the person that they are? When is everyone in the world going to realise that their opinions and prejudices are completely worthless except to the people who ask them for it? So if gays don't care what you think, why should they have to try and ignore/change the way they feel?

How would an individual go about telling their parents they're homosexual?

Why tell them anyway? To all the straight people here, do you actually discuss your sex life with your parents? Seriously? I know i sure as hell fuckin' don't. If they ask me questions i tell them to butt out or i give them far more information than they wanted and they quickly regret asking.

I'm not saying hide it from them, but if they don't ask, then there's no need to say is there?

The most likley scenario is that your old man will go apeshit and your mother will just look at you with a sad look on her face, because they don't want to handle the 'shame' of having a homosexual child. Well if that's the kind of parents you have, fuck them! If they can't love their child regardless, their approval isn't worth having.

If not explained above, what are your views on homosexuality?

Homosexuals have every right to do what ever they want in private. They have every right to do what they want in public. We may find it disgusting and revolting, but if we're not going to tell fat people on the beach to cover up because they look revolting, what right do we have to say the same thing to homosexuals?

I too am not going to respond well to a homosexual trying it on with me, especially if they know for fact that i'm straight. You know what most of them say?

'You're just not comfortable with your sexuality'

No dumb ass, i'm perfectly happy with my sexuality, it's your sexuality i'm not comfortable with, especially when you're trying to project it on to me!

Everyone's sexuality is there own, and should be left at that. Share with like minded people, but gays who try it on with straight people are idiots, but straight people who slander homosexuals just for being homosexuals are even more stupid.

The only thing I don't agree with, is homosexual couples having children. I know that sounds hypocritical, but in my view if you can't conceive a child naturally between the two of you, then you should not be having children. Obviously that's unfair to couples who have fertility problems, but when that's not the case, i simply think it's unfair on the child, to be given two helpings of one parent and none of the other.

Children should be raised by a mother and a father, not two fathers or two mothers. I'm not saying that homosexual couples have no right to have a child, but i simply don't think it's fair on the child themselves.

I'm not gay, but a LOT of people who meet me for the first time assume i am for a number of reasons:-

A) I'm articulate and well spoken with a deep voice. Now a lot of you will think 'so?' well there's been more than one occassion where i've been chatting up girls and i actually asked them 'you think i'm gay don't you?'
and they each said yes, and each time it was because of the way i speak..... allegedly.

B) I'm not into the majority of things that most men are.

For example, i couldn't give a flying fuck about cars. I have no interest in learning to drive, i have no interest in owning a car, and know nothing, literally nothing about how they work, to the point that i couldn't even identify which manufacturer it was if you removed the badge. Cars bore me to death. When my friends start baging on about cars, i leave the room, every time.

I also don't give a flying fuck about sports. Any of them. Just about every sport bores me to tears. 90 minutes of watching the same 20 guys run up and down kicking the same ball does not excite me. Watching guys ram into each other, only to stop for 30 seconds, throw a ball and then take two steps and then WHAM, they ram into each other over and over again also, does not interest me.

Now i was raised with by my mother alone while my dad worked abroad to provide for my family. I saw him for a week or two every other month, but he didn't have a profound effect on my life until he came back permanently when i was 13. By 13, it's far too late to try convince your son to take things up, especially when you yourself are too old to particiapte with him.

So based on that, i feel that by not having both types of parent, it can have an impact on your childhood, not in an overly negative or dramatic way, but in a way that makes everyone else think there's something not quite right about you.

 

[jmt225]

No, I don't think gays are born the way they are. I simply think something happens in their childhood that makes them who they are later in life. I'm pretty sure if you were able to rewind the clock and view a homosexual's childhood, you would easily be able to pinpoint why he or she grew up to be gay. It's definitely not his or her fault, or something he or she can control, but I certainly don't believe it was determined while they were in their mother's belly that that person was going to grow up to be attracted to the member of the same sex.

How can a person tell their parents that they're gay? Well, that's a case-to-case matter. Very hard to answer. Take myself. If I were gay, I'm sure I would have no problem telling my mother; my dad, on the other hand, I most likely would have never opened up to about it. It all just depends what kind of parents you have, but I certainly do not blame any gay person who decides to keep their sexuality away from their parents. As long as they're true to themselves, that's ultimately all that matters.

And do I have a problem with homosexuals? Well, to be honest, there are the stereotypical kind who I simply find to be loud, extremely obnoxious people who only think about themselves and are just a burden to society, but I firmly believe (and hope) that that's only a small percentage of the homosexual community. I think the majority are quiet, nice, simple people who just want to live happy lives. It's just a damn shame that the flamboyant gays out there give those people such a horrible name.

 

[Pole Smoker]

Let's discuss this shit.



Wow, I've never met a homosexual or lesbian individual to have sex with the opposite gender, unless they are bisexual. And what do you mean "programmed this way"? Gays doint choose to be gay. Just like you don't choose to be straight. You're naturally attracted toi the opposite gender. If homosexuality was the norm, I'm sure you'd be gay too.



Again with the "programmed this way"? who's programming them? And no, they're not gay because they are not attention seekers. Last I checked, gays and lesbians are getting harrassed for their ways. Being gay wouldn't be the best idea then now would it?



Elton John? Rossie O'Donnel? Or are you talking about the real old people from the 30s or 40s where being gay was looked down upon and promised a lifetime of misery by the KKK or other radical groups? Or what about from the 1960s where a lot of this started? First click on google popped this up--Bod Davis and Henry Schalizki, both 89, have been together for 62 years. They recently got married in Washington DC.--moving on then.



Highschool. Or even school period. The worst possible place to want people going around talking about you being gay. There are so many deceitful people in school. Why would anyone want to start that shit in highschool?



These people? You're treating them like they're a different race. Gays are what the blacks were to the 60s. Look at it like that. People like you, are too narrow minded to see the comparison and don't realize they are discriminating against a certain "race".



I like how you said some gays go on to have families but then said gays go through a phase. I agree with you, sometimes it is a phase. Its usually a phase during your tennage years. When kids are expirimenting with their sexuality.



Already covered this. There are plenty of gay older men.



They like saiod individual. Its natural to hit on them. Would you hit on a friend's girl if you really liked her? You would. Ah you're so annoying and selfish.



Not really. As I said before, people hit on people they like. Straight or gay.



Your so stereotypical. Not all gays are like this. Its sad that you expirienced the select few that are. But most aren't. You can't go around say all blacks will rob you or all brown peiople are terrorists. Not all gays act like this. Most gays are actually pretty cool dude.



Ah well dammit, spoke to soon.



Whoa whoa whoa!!! So you don't like gays because they annoy you. Why not just say that? That's the most bullshit answer to have ever graced one of my threads. Like I said, you're stereotyping these type of people. I've yet to meet this stereotypical gay. Like I siad before, most are not like this. I don't see what your problem is.



Well, you do have a little morals.



Mistake?? To kiss in public? Because it's repulsive? Hold on a sec.

Spoiler

Moving on.



Couldn't have happened to a better person.

Well you certainly are a lucky person for not meeting a stereotypical gay. I have met about 5 or 6 and have met not one normal gay. So I'm going of experience.

Also I am happy the gay hit on me becuase I got a chance to knock some sense into one of them

Also there are very few gay older couples. I have never saw one except for on TV.

A guy at my work used to be gay and now is married to a woman with 3 kids.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

I expect to be called stupid for my answer on this subject as I know there will be some people to tell me how wrong I am. But in any case: No. People are not born gay.

Within the past few years or so it's been said that homosexuality is caused by a "gay gene." Years ago, it was thought that the marker xq28 found by Dean Hamer was that gay gene. Unfortunately, later studies have disproved Hamler's theory of the gay gene. Though that didn't stop others from trying to prove that the alleged gay gene was existant. However, most if not all of these tests resulted in flaws and/or were proven false. To put it bluntly, Science has pretty much disproven every single theory that gays are born gay.

There doesn't need to be a particular gene inside of you in order to prove you are actually gay. Being gay doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with genetics. Science hasn't disproved anything - it only eliminated possible hypotheses.

With all the prejudices out there, it's easy to understand why they would want something to hold onto that says: "I didn't choose this!" But lets be honest, if a gene exists for homosexuality, there exists a opposite gene for other forms of sexual attraction. From the normal, to the dangerous. Once we start assigning genes to our behaviors, pretty soon everything is excused because of them. By this, I mean the more dangerous behaviors such as: sexual attraction to children, asexual attraction to animals, etc.

You have to understand how the human mind works before you jump to slippery slope conclusions that a gay gene would require a child/animal attraction gene. Our biological makeup provides instinct to our brains that make us want to reproduce. Homosexuality is shown all over the natural world; it's simply not understood. But you can't make the decision that just because a certain aspect of the study was disproved, that homosexuality essentially doesn't exist. That's remarkably ignorant, and you absolutely should approach the subject with a different viewpoint.

People are not born "gay" just as no one is born "straight." It is simply that the society that they are raised in has influenced or forced them into decisions with which they face. In other words, it is the environmental/psychological factors that affect these people into becoming what they are. With that said, I'm not saying being Gay is a choice people make.

But who are you to make that decision? You, as a straight man, don't get to decide whether or not homosexuals are born gay or not, nor do you get to cite reasons for homosexuality without any peer-reviewed scientific studies on the subject. What you're saying right now is pure conjecture based on a narrow-minded world view.

Sure, there are environmental factors that cause emotional or mental problems that can cause homosexuality, and I think that's one of the main causes for homosexuality in today's society, but you have to understand that this is also the main cause for pedophilia and zoophilia, which brings us back to the argument that maybe pedophiles and zoophiles could also be born that way. You can't put the blame on somebody simply because you dislike the way they carry out their lives.

A couple of disclaimers before anyone reads on:
-Pedophiles hurt children, and they should be distanced from society as much as humanly possible.
-Zoophiles hurt animals, and they should be distances from animals as much as possible, if not society all together.
-I believe these people should be rehabilitated.

Homosexuals, however, practice a form of sex that is consensual, between legal adults. Homosexual sex is absolutely no different from straight sex in the amount of third-party people it effects (exactly zero).

No, of course not. I'm merely saying that genetics has little to nothing to do with the reason for someone's homosexuality. The real world--the reality that one faces--that's what affects these people to become homosexual.

This contradicts everything you just said. You went from, "science has disproved the argument that homosexuality is not a choice," to "it has nothing to do with genetics."

Of course, this little disclaimer excludes pedophilism because that is just...well...wrong and stupid.

Why? Pedophilia comes from emotional and mental factors out of the person's control. It would be hypocritical of you to put the blame on a pedophile and not a homosexual or a zoophile.

 

[Pole Smoker]

Let's discuss this shit.

Ok.



Wow, I've never met a homosexual or lesbian individual to have sex with the opposite gender, unless they are bisexual. And what do you mean "programmed this way"? Gays doint choose to be gay. Just like you don't choose to be straight. You're naturally attracted toi the opposite gender. If homosexuality was the norm, I'm sure you'd be gay too.

Well I have. One of the gays who I know swears by gay. He looks down on straight people almost. He would tell you he is nothing but gay. Then why did he have sex with a 9/10 girl. I put emphasis on the 9/10because I think that if they are gay there are certain girls they would still do. What about my earlier post where a guy at my work who I talked to and he eventually got married to a woman. For years he had been swearing by gay and where is he now.



Again with the "programmed this way"? who's programming them? And no, they're not gay because they are not attention seekers. Last I checked, gays and lesbians are getting harrassed for their ways. Being gay wouldn't be the best idea then now would it?

Maybe I got carried away with the programmed this way but I still think it happens. Maybe not with all gays but I never said it did. Like if they have a dad they hate they might be gay to get back on him. It happens.

My "programmed this way" comments should of been put as revnge or gay for the sake of it.


Elton John? Rossie O'Donnel? Or are you talking about the real old people from the 30s or 40s where being gay was looked down upon and promised a lifetime of misery by the KKK or other radical groups? Or what about from the 1960s where a lot of this started? First click on google popped this up--Bod Davis and Henry Schalizki, both 89, have been together for 62 years. They recently got married in Washington DC.--moving on then.

Well I have never seen a gay grampa couple. Of course they exist but I asked when was the last time you saw one. You can find anyone on the internet. You could find a guy who only has sex with dogs if you wanted. I never saw a gay older couple.


Highschool. Or even school period. The worst possible place to want people going around talking about you being gay. There are so many deceitful people in school. Why would anyone want to start that shit in highschool?

Well High School's in the USA are different. In my school the thugs take the piss out them but they use that to their advantage to get pit of their friends that are all girls. There were a few in my high school and all of them were gay stereotype extremists.



These people? You're treating them like they're a different race. Gays are what the blacks were to the 60s. Look at it like that. People like you, are too narrow minded to see the comparison and don't realize they are discriminating against a certain "race".

You have twisted my words here.

When I said these people I mean these people that play up to being gay. I meant the ones that have the voice and shoes etc. How am I narrow minded. Your basing that of one post which makes you narrow minded. I will listen to any argument you put in front of me. Who knows? By the end of this I might be in a gay pride parade screaming my heart out for the gays with my hair fixed perfectly and wearing gay ass jeans. Nah just kidding but I might have changed my opinion a little.

I like how you said some gays go on to have families but then said gays go through a phase. I agree with you, sometimes it is a phase. Its usually a phase during your tennage years. When kids are expirimenting with their sexuality.

I said some gays go through a phase not all. Ifyou looked at what I said later I am ok with some gays. If they don't bother me I won't bother them. If a gay is hitting on me then he's being disrespectful to my rights.

As a matter of fact more gays means less competition for the ladies .



Already covered this. There are plenty of gay older men.

Not that I have seen.



They like saiod individual. Its natural to hit on them. Would you hit on a friend's girl if you really liked her? You would. Ah you're so annoying and selfish.

I don't know what you are talking about here. Are you referring to when a gay hit on me?

Well if I tell him I am straight and would appreciate it if he leaves me alone but then he hits on me then how on earth can you say that is ok.

Also I would never hit on one of my friends girl's. I don't know what kind of friend you are but I think guys that do that should think long term. If it's a true friend then how could you be such an ass to risk your friendship. Especially with some girl that is willing to let me hit on her and possibly take it further! I don't want some ho who cheats.

Remind me never to take a my girlfriend around you. Nah I kidd lol

Not really. As I said before, people hit on people they like. Straight or gay.

Yea well if they have been told not to and still do they are creeps and need to learn some respect for someone.


Your so stereotypical. Not all gays are like this. Its sad that you expirienced the select few that are. But most aren't. You can't go around say all blacks will rob you or all brown peiople are terrorists. Not all gays act like this. Most gays are actually pretty cool dude.

Did I ever say I think all blacks are terrorists? I think not.

Oh I'm stereotypical? You just stereotyped gays as most of them being pretty cool dudes. Have you met ever gay in the world. How do you know most of them are "pretty cool dudes". I could be civil to some gays and know there are some good ones. If they are nice people, don't hit on me' have respect and he is indeed a pretty cool dude then no problem. I have yet to meet one of these though. Out of the something like 20 gays I have witnessed I can honestly say they are all ass*****.



Ah well dammit, spoke to soon.

Why yes you did .



Whoa whoa whoa!!! So you don't like gays because they annoy you. Why not just say that? That's the most bullshit answer to have ever graced one of my threads. Like I said, you're stereotyping these type of people. I've yet to meet this stereotypical gay. Like I siad before, most are not like this. I don't see what your problem is.

You've never met a stereotypical gay.Lucky for some then!

Actually I meant that the stereotypical gays annoy me.

You Don't see my problem? what about the disturbing way a gay hit on me.Leaning in to kiss my cheek? Then he can get the hell away by running damn fast or take the beating of a lifetime!

I have explained my problems with gays many times now.


Well, you do have a little morals.

Actually I have morals. I have explained if a gay is a normal dude then I have no problem with him.



Mistake?? To kiss in public? Because it's repulsive? Hold on a sec.

Spoiler

Moving on.

All I was saying that if they are going to do a full on french kiss while touching each other they should be prepared for the consequences.

They could honestly get the sh** beat out of them for doing it.

Also I do find it disgusting. My opinion


Couldn't have happened to a better person.:thumbsup:

What do you mean here?

I am happy. i was in the right. He was just about to sexually harass me so I kicked the living sh** out him. Honestly I blacked out. I literally stomped on his face. He ruined my night. He showed no respect for me and didn't leave me alone. Next time he might think twice.

Good argument.

I HAVE MESSED UP THIS POST SORRY. MY RESPONSES ARE IN THE QUOTE. HAMBURGLAR'S WRITING IS IN BOLD. lmao my responses to the hamburglar are in normal writing in the quote. sorry again i messed up and don't know how to fix

 

[SalvIsWin]

The bottom-line is , I can stand some guy thinking that he's a homo,I can't stand a guy being proud of it or trying to make other people to become one.

Why? Your entire post is a list of things you do not like about gay people without any actual reason other than it bothers you personally. Why must a person keep their homosexuality to themself? Your argument is no more stronger than if I myself were to say that people with cancer must keep it to themselves, because it personally bothers me.

You're seemingly afraid that being gay is wrong - why? What is your reasoning for being bothered? The only somewhat legitimate point you had was that a gay person was hitting on you, and when you told them you weren't interested they persisted. Unfortunately for you and your argument, that's no more to the point of why being is wrong, as saying an overweight person was hitting on you and you told them you weren't interested, and they persisted.

Another reason why I think some people are not born gay is the fact that the lesbian girls I know only came out in their late teen years having never been able to get a boyfriend in school due to the fact they are fat and unnattractive. I do think that sometimes people choose to be gay in order to find a partner, as they have been unsuccessful in attracting anyone of the opposite sex. This is fine, again their choice but it backs up my initial thoughts.

Keep in mind that casuality does not infer causation. What I am getting at is, you said you think that some people 'turn' gay because they are having no luck with the opposite sex. This could be explained however by gay people growing up feeling different, being stressed about their lack of ability to connect with others, and eating because of it. That's just one explanation for example.

The only thing I don't agree with, is homosexual couples having children. I know that sounds hypocritical, but in my view if you can't conceive a child naturally between the two of you, then you should not be having children. Obviously that's unfair to couples who have fertility problems, but when that's not the case, i simply think it's unfair on the child, to be given two helpings of one parent and none of the other.

Children should be raised by a mother and a father, not two fathers or two mothers. I'm not saying that homosexual couples have no right to have a child, but i simply don't think it's fair on the child themselves.

So what about single parents? Should they have their children taken away from them? Support systems and other persons like uncles, grandfathers, cousins - all these can provide a male influence. Other than that, if you feel a children needs a male or female influence, you could simply enroll them in a big brother program, or some sort of mentorship. There is no reason to suggest that a gay couple are not completely adequate parents - there is research on this subject, and the conclusion is that there is no difference in male or female couples. Not only that, but there is research on the orientation of gay couples versus that of heterosexual couples, and the conclusion is that there is no difference.

 

[Pole Smoker]

Why? Your entire post is a list of things you do not like about gay people without any actual reason other than it bothers you personally. Why must a person keep their homosexuality to themself? Your argument is no more stronger than if I myself were to say that people with cancer must keep it to themselves, because it personally bothers me.

You're seemingly afraid that being gay is wrong - why? What is your reasoning for being bothered? The only somewhat legitimate point you had was that a gay person was hitting on you, and when you told them you weren't interested they persisted. Unfortunately for you and your argument, that's no more to the point of why being is wrong, as saying an overweight person was hitting on you and you told them you weren't interested, and they persisted.



Keep in mind that casuality does not infer causation. What I am getting at is, you said you think that some people 'turn' gay because they are having no luck with the opposite sex. This could be explained however by gay people growing up feeling different, being stressed about their lack of ability to connect with others, and eating because of it. That's just one explanation for example.



So what about single parents? Should they have their children taken away from them? Support systems and other persons like uncles, grandfathers, cousins - all these can provide a male influence. Other than that, if you feel a children needs a male or female influence, you could simply enroll them in a big brother program, or some sort of mentorship. There is no reason to suggest that a gay couple are not completely adequate parents - there is research on this subject, and the conclusion is that there is no difference in male or female couples. Not only that, but there is research on the orientation of gay couples versus that of heterosexual couples, and the conclusion is that there is no difference.

While I agree that gays should not have to keep gay to themselves I do agree with nexusoragainstus when he says that gays annoy him when they try to get others to be gay. They look down on straight males and act like being gay is amazing and we're missing out when actually it is them that are missing out IMO

 

[Xemmy]

-Are Homosexuals born this way?
I think some are, and some are not. My uncle is flamboyantly gay, and I couldn't see him any other way. Other guys I've met, don't seem to fit. I think you're just pulled in one direction or another. Kind of like how certain people like certain foods. Yummy...

-Or is it something they can help?
Really does depend. I think sexual orientation is subject to change the way your mind does, and throughout your experiences. If an event occurs that changes you, your orientation may very well change. But honestly I don't think it's something you can help. It just a preference. Can you just choose whether or not you like something?

-How would an individual go about telling their parents they're homosexual?
Depends on the parents. If you're in a more liberal home, it should be alot easier. Parents that have a problem with homosexuals are another matter. Personally I wouldn't until I was moved out of the house, and then I'd be short and sweet about it.

-If not explained above, what are your views on homosexuality?
I don't think it's genetic. It might be. But even if it wasn't, I don't care. You love who you love, and you're attracted to who you're attracted to. It's not something you can control. It occurs in all of nature, which means it's not a man-made perversion- so anyone that thinks otherwise can go fuck themselves. And stay out of other people's bedrooms....unless you're there to join in

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

So what about single parents? Should they have their children taken away from them?

Of course not, but that would have at least started with two parents and unless one of them died, the child is still likely to remain in contact and be influenced by both. The otherlikelihood is that the single parent will meet someone new, and then that person's behaviour around the child will start to influence them as well. Perhaps not intentionally, but purely through prolonged exposure to an adult figure.

Support systems and other persons like uncles, grandfathers, cousins - all these can provide a male influence. Other than that, if you feel a children needs a male or female influence, you could simply enroll them in a big brother program, or some sort of mentorship.

Teachers, sporting communities and neighbourhood friends can do all that too. Hell, some kids rely on TV for 'father figures'. Surely only kids with personal issues like shyness, erractic behaviour or are subject to being bullied a lot need 'support systems'.

There is no reason to suggest that a gay couple are not completely adequate parents

Indeed there isn't, and i wasn't trying to say that there was. I hope that's not how that came across. Hell, most straight couples struggle at being 'adequate parents' these days.

There is research on this subject

There would be. But i personally am not huge on psychology (despite the fact that that's what we're discussing now), but if we can't work out how to use 90% of our brains, i'm not willing to let people tell me how everyone's mind reacts to everything.

and the conclusion is that there is no difference in male or female couples.

But what about the difference between a male/male couple and a male/female couple?

Not only that, but there is research on the orientation of gay couples versus that of heterosexual couples, and the conclusion is that there is no difference.

Sorry, it's late and i've had a smoke, explain what you mean to me by 'orientation', and then explain how it relates to how being raised by a homosexual couple can still provide the same, equal experience as being raised by a heterosexual couple, please.

You won't get a response today, but i will respond.

 

[Xemmy]

I too am not going to respond well to a homosexual trying it on with me, especially if they know for fact that i'm straight. You know what most of them say?

'You're just not comfortable with your sexuality'

No dumb ass, i'm perfectly happy with my sexuality, it's your sexuality i'm not comfortable with, especially when you're trying to project it on to me!

Everyone's sexuality is there own, and should be left at that. Share with like minded people, but gays who try it on with straight people are idiots, but straight people who slander homosexuals just for being homosexuals are even more stupid.

You know, I know straight people like that. Hitting on you, knowing you have no interest, and persisting in anyway possible.

They're a universal people. They're called assholes.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

You know, I know straight people like that. Hitting on you, knowing you have no interest, and persisting in anyway possible.

They're a universal people. They're called assholes.

Lol, you know i was just re-reading what i posted and when it came to that part, i thought to myself 'wait, guys do that to hot chicks non-stop.'

And you're totally right, they are assholes.......... unfortunately i've known a number of them since i was like 4 so i've learned to just ignore it and step in when things get hairy...... or just finish my drink and walk off, depending on mood.

 

[Serious Jones]

-Are Homosexuals born this way? Or is it something they can help?

Homosexuality being a choice is ludicrous. Who would ever wake one up one morning and say "Hey, I think I'm going to be attracted to the same sex, and be subjected to hate and abuse my entire life!" The whole "product of their environment" or "no male role model" thing might have some truth to it, but it's certainly not the only factor. There are plenty of homosexuals that come from complete, functional families. That only leaves one option; it's something innate that homosexuals, like heterosexuals, have had their entire lives. I never "chose" to be heterosexual.

Is it something they can help? Sure, sometimes. Some people can be "cured" from those pray the gay away camps, and some people can suppress the urges, but that's not healthy. It's brainwashing, to be frank. And why would an innate desire be suppressed? Homosexuality is not a disease, and it's not a problem. It doesn't need to be "helped."

-How would an individual go about telling their parents they're homosexual?

This is probably one of the bigger problems homosexuals face, because our society hasn't entirely embraced homosexuals as something normal yet. A lot of families still think of homosexuality as a disorder, or think of homosexuals as second-class citizens. There's not much to do if you're homosexual and live in, say, a militant Christian household. Young homosexuals are subjected to hate, and they know that many parents will hate the fact that they're homosexuals as well. If I lived in a more accepting household and were a homosexual, I would just sit my parents down and have a frank discussion. If I lived in a less approving household, I would probably wait until after I moved out, as that could destroy the parent-child relationship, depending on how homophobic the parents may or may not be.

-If not explained above, what are your views on homosexuality?

I think that homosexuality not being accepted is one of the great shames of our society, and I think future generations will look back and be disgusted with how they're being treated and portrayed. It's a cliched argument to compare homosexuals to African-Americans trying to gain civil rights, but it's certainly valid to a great extent. Homosexuality is not a sin, or morally decadent, or however people want to look at it. That argument is just homophobic people using religion or ethics to try to justify their prejudice. That kind of bigotry should never be tolerated.

It may be a bit off-topic, but I also wholeheartedly believe that homosexuals deserve all the rights that heterosexual Americans do. And yes, that includes the right to marry. America is the land of the free, and that doesn't just apply if you happen to like the opposite sex. There is no valid argument against it, that in my eyes, isn't rooted in hate and prejudice. I'm not content with civil unions, as that's "separate but equal" discrimination all over again. Homosexuals are equal human beings, and are not at all deserving of the shameful depictions and homophobia that are rampant throughout our society.

 

[#hamler]

Well I have. One of the gays who I know swears by gay. He looks down on straight people almost. He would tell you he is nothing but gay. Then why did he have sex with a 9/10 girl. I put emphasis on the 9/10because I think that if they are gay there are certain girls they would still do.

No, Homo means same. Homosexual means same sex. He would obviously be bisexual if he would still do said girl. Hence the word Bi--as in 2.

What about my earlier post where a guy at my work who I talked to and he eventually got married to a woman. For years he had been swearing by gay and where is he now.

Well he was obviously in some sort of phase. There's no doubt the dude is probably still attracted to other men. He's probably too bisexual.

Maybe I got carried away with the programmed this way but I still think it happens. Maybe not with all gays but I never said it did. Like if they have a dad they hate they might be gay to get back on him. It happens. My "programmed this way" comments shouldve been put as gay or revenge.

WHAT?!

So now gays are gay to get revenge on their father for leaving them or some shit? Wow. I'm not even adressing this. Moving on.

Well I have never seen a gay grampa couple. Of course they exist but I asked when was the last time you saw one. You can find anyone on the internet. You could find a guy who only has sex with dogs if you wanted. I never saw a gay older couple.

What is your point here? Have you seen a billion dollars? Does it exist just because you haven't seen it? There are plenty of gayer older couples, just because you have saw any, doesn't mean they aren't there.

Well High School's in the USA are different. In my school the thugs take the piss out them but they use that to their advantage to get take the piss out them but they use that to their advantage to get pit of their friends that are all girls. There were a few in my high school and all of them were gay stereotype extremists.

So they take advantage of being harrassed and picked on for being gay in your school? No right minded individual would do this.

You have twisted my words here. When I said these people I mean these people that play up to being gay. I meant the ones that have the voice and shoes etc. How am I narrow minded. Your basing that of one post which makes you narrow minded. I will listen to any argument you put in front of me. Who knows? By the end of this I might be in a gay pride parade screaming my heart out for the gays with my hair fixed perfectly and wearing gay ass jeans. Nah just kidding but I might have changed my opinion a little.

Ok, first, I didn't twist shit. I know what you said. I simply responded to it. You're narrow minded because your stereotyping a certain"race" of people just like blacks were treeated back in the 1960s. I explained myself pretty well there. Your narrow minded by stereotyping homosexuals based upon on or two expiriences.

I said some gays go through a phase not all. Ifyou looked at what I said later I am ok with some gays. If they don't bother me I won't bother them. If a gay is hitting on me then he's being disrespectful to my rights. As a matter of fact more gays means less competition for the ladies.

Your rights? What about their rights to hit on whomever they feel like hitting on? Just like you'd hit on a girl even if she was so not into you. Your the one being disrespectful to their rights. They have the right to make out in public and do whatever they feel is necissary to show their love.

I don't know what you are talking about here. Are you referring to when a gay hit on me? Well if I tell him I am straight and would appreciate it if he leaves me alone but then he hits on me then how on earth can you say that is ok.

So I guess next time a girl turns you down she should just turn around knee you in your balls and your ok with it? Gottcha.

Did I ever say I think all blacks are terrorists? I think not. Oh I'm stereotypical? You just stereotyped gays as most of them being pretty cool dudes. Have you met ever gay in the world. How do you know most of them are "pretty cool dudes". I could be civil to some gays and know there are some good ones. If they are nice people, don't hit on me' have respect and he is indeed a pretty cool dude then no problem. I have yet to meet one of these though. Out of the something like 20 gays I have witnessed I can honestly say they are all ass*****.

But your giving them a negative steroetype. And yes, one of my best friends is gay. He hasn't ever hit on me. Your saying that because of a bad expirience, you don't like gays. That's not a good enough reason to not like a certain type of people when in reality, they're just like you and me. They have their way of thinking, you have yours, and I have mine.

Actually I meant that the stereotypical gays annoy me. You Don't see my problem? what about the disturbing way a gay hit on me.Leaning in to kiss my cheek? Then he can get the hell away by running damn fast or take the beating of a lifetime! I have explained my problems with gays many times now

Oh so stereotypical gays annoy you? Then whynot just say that. You do realize stereotypes aren't ever true right. That's why I said earlier we can asume all browns are terroist or blacks will mug you...because your stereotyping gays the same exact way.

All I was saying that if they are going to do a full on french kiss while touching each other they should be prepared for the consequences.

Same with the straight couple making out in the movie theater or the mall. No one wants to see that. Straight or gay. But kissing...come on...

They could honestly get the sh** beat out of them for doing it Also I do find it disgusting.

For kissing in public? Same with the blacks getting hanged for drinking in a white only water fountain in the 60s correct? See what I'm getting at? See the similarities? If you find it disgusting, then don't look... I'm sure they might find it disgusting when you make out with a girl in public. Who's right here?

My opinion.

...Is horse shit.

EDIT

It may be a bit off-topic, but I also wholeheartedly believe that homosexuals deserve all the rights that heterosexual Americans do. And yes, that includes the right to marry. America is the land of the free, and that doesn't just apply if you happen to like the opposite sex. There is no valid argument against it, that in my eyes, isn't rooted in hate and prejudice. I'm not content with civil unions, as that's "separate but equal" discrimination all over again. Homosexuals are equal human beings, and are not at all deserving of the shameful depictions and homophobia that are rampant throughout our society.

All of this shit. Very well done.