Mistico Returns as Sin Cara

[The Dragon Saga]

Luis Ignascio Urive Alvirde, the original Sin Cara, returned to action at Saturday's SmackDown live event in Tacoma, Washington.

Alvirde is eligible to resume performing since his thirty-day suspension for his first violation of WWE's drug testing policy expired on Tuesday. He claimed in an interview that he did not know what he had tested positive for and that he had only gotten a routine injection for his injured knee in Mexico.

Alvirde's future with the organization was believed to be in doubt since developmental talent Jorge Arias (a/k/a Hunico) assumed the Sin Cara character at the last two SmackDown tapings. There was talk that the move would be permanent since company officials were reportedly sour on Alvirde due to his attitude and lackluster performances.

The following is not a direct report claiming that Arias won't continue to portray Sin Cara at tapings but this confirms that Alvirde's job is secure going into the future and that he will eventually return to play his Sin Cara character.

And for what it's worth, one fan in attendance noted that it looked as if Cara was rocking a blond mo-hawk under the mask, a look he was once spotted after removing his mask at an event in Mexico.

There you have it. Sin Cara will soon be portrayed yet again by Mistico, who returned last night at a live event and defeated Tyson Kidd with the Spanish Fly.

I've been fully backing Mistico to return, its more bias on my own front as I know of his Mexican work, unlike many others, and a part of me sides with him because the biggest complaint is, "ZOMG HE BOTCHES LULZ!" Of course he's going to botch, his style is risky, if I throw you off a seven foot ladder I highly doubt you can tell me you'll land in a percise position each and every time.

Ignoring that, I do hope Hunico is either brought to television to once again portray his own character or they continue with him portraying Cara and bring the original Cara back to have a "Sin Cara" vs. Sin Cara bout, mask vs. mask. He showed he has the skills to be on the main roster. Oddly, I don't see people jumping on his back every time he lands an inch to the left of an opponant but, you'll have that with the IWC.

Anyway, Mistico is back. Can't keep a good Lucha down.

 

[#hamler]

Cool story bro. Mistico should stay off live tv for a little while longer only making appearances at house shows and whatnot. Have Hunico portray Sin Cara making it real obvious it's not the real one. Then set it up as a fake Sin Cara vs. real Sin Cara feud. Sin Cara can't keep being booked in random matches if he wants to get anywhere. Sure Tyson Kidd is a good opponent to match his style but if the WWE wants him to move up the card, a solid feud is very necessary. After all is said and done, I'd love it for Hunico to return under another mask to challenge Sin Cara again. Could be hilariously fun for those of us who know who the fake Sin Cara really was. Glad to have the original back though. That doesn't mean they should just drop Hunico back down to developmental.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Cool story bro. Mistico should stay off live tv for a little while longer only making appearances at house shows and whatnot. Have Hunico portray Sin Cara making it real obvious it's not the real one. Then set it up as a fake Sin Cara vs. real Sin Cara feud. Sin Cara can't keep being booked in random matches if he wants to get anywhere. Sure Tyson Kidd is a good opponent to match his style but if the WWE wants him to move up the card, a solid feud is very necessary. After all is said and done, I'd love it for Hunico to return under another mask to challenge Sin Cara again. Could be hilariously fun for those of us who know who the fake Sin Cara really was. Glad to have the original back though. That doesn't mean they should just drop Hunico back down to developmental.

Agreed.

With hope Mistico spent his thirty days off learning a few more basics down in Florida. It wouldn't have been a bad idea, and he is supposed to be learning English in his spare time also, so I have no ill feelings towards the dude. His style is unique and fun, the crowds everywhere love him, WWE don't even need to pipe reactions in on Smackdown for Mistico; or Cara in-general, as seen at Money in The Bank. That was the true indication to me that he has gotten over in a big way, most people dig him at live events too which is cool.

WWE's tour of Mexico would suit this brilliantly. Mask vs. Mask matches draw truck loads, and when you consider the guy under one of the masks is the biggest Mexican draw in the last decade It'd almost be stupid for WWE not to do it. But what I found interesting watching Smackdown this week is that Sin Cara fended off ADR.

Dos Caras Jr. vs. Mistico would draw large too, so WWE have a couple options here to draw in some big time figures. Still happy Mistico is back though, just hope Hunico is made use of as well.

 

[AmneonX]

I think they need to bring Hunico and Epico up to the main roster and attack Sin Cara. Have Rey come out and make the save, and we can have a good ole WCW style lucha libre cruiserweight match.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

There you have it. Sin Cara will soon be portrayed yet again by Mistico, who returned last night at a live event and defeated Tyson Kidd with the Spanish Fly.

I've been fully backing Mistico to return, its more bias on my own front as I know of his Mexican work, unlike many others, and a part of me sides with him because the biggest complaint is, "ZOMG HE BOTCHES LULZ!" Of course he's going to botch, his style is risky, if I throw you off a seven foot ladder I highly doubt you can tell me you'll land in a percise position each and every time.

Ignoring that, I do hope Hunico is either brought to television to once again portray his own character or they continue with him portraying Cara and bring the original Cara back to have a "Sin Cara" vs. Sin Cara bout, mask vs. mask. He showed he has the skills to be on the main roster. Oddly, I don't see people jumping on his back every time he lands an inch to the left of an opponant but, you'll have that with the IWC.

Anyway, Mistico is back. Can't keep a good Lucha down.

It's not that he botches (which he shouldn't, if you can't do moves 100% of the time don't do them, called "staying within yourself"), it's that he doesn't tell a story or sell. He just does a bunch of random flips and roll bumps. When he does botch, instead of selling it and then getting to the next spot in a creative way. He just resets everything. It looks incredibly fake.

Saying "well his style is complex" is a shitty excuse for botching. Mysterio in the late 90s was incredibly complex, he never fucked up. If he did, they sold it as a mistake the wrestler made and went with it and turned it into part of the story of the match.

I too have seen his stuff from Mexico. However, like Mike Quackenbush says, Lucha Libre and American Pro Wrestling aren't really the same thing, more cousins. So Mistico needs to adapt his style.

I do like that Mistico is back under the mask because if he ever learns the american style, it'll be spectacular, plus it'll be a bigger draw in Mexico.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

You're quickly becoming the most repetitive poster on these boards, every post you make you either have a comment to make about "telling a story" or "because the smarks are wrong", in the words of Chris Jericho please shut the hell up and find some new material. Some material that people actually may find entertaining to read.

It's not that he botches (which he shouldn't, if you can't do moves 100% of the time don't do them, called "staying within yourself"), it's that he doesn't tell a story or sell. He just does a bunch of random flips and roll bumps. When he does botch, instead of selling it and then getting to the next spot in a creative way. He just resets everything. It looks incredibly fake.

If you want a story go buy the Harry Potter series. If you want entertainment stick around these forums and learn about the different opinions on wrestling. Mistico may not do everything perfect Mr. Smark, but what he does wrong is a hell of a lot more entertaining than what most people within the company do. And remember, Sports "Entertainment."

Saying "well his style is complex" is a shitty excuse for botching. Mysterio in the late 90s was incredibly complex, he never fucked up. If he did, they sold it as a mistake the wrestler made and went with it and turned it into part of the story of the match.

No. Mysterio vs. Psychosis, Rey tries to use the guard rail as a launching pad to dive onto Psychosis, he slips, falls back, gets back up and does the move again, so using Rey isn't one of the smartest moves you could have done there chief. Secondly, during his match with Tyson Kidd, Mistico didn't land a Springboard Dive correctly and sold it, sold it so much that Kidd was up before him.

I too have seen his stuff from Mexico. However, like Mike Quackenbush says, Lucha Libre and American Pro Wrestling aren't really the same thing, more cousins. So Mistico needs to adapt his style.

I'd listen to Necro Butcher lecture me about parralling styles of professional wrestling before Quackenbush. Mistico improved week-after-week, when they bring the guy in and don't send him to development like they should have done they only have themselves to blame for any mistake he may make.

I do like that Mistico is back under the mask because if he ever learns the american style, it'll be spectacular, plus it'll be a bigger draw in Mexico.

At least we agree on one thing. And not once did you mention the word, "smark", well done. Try and continue the streak.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

You're quickly becoming the most repetitive poster on these boards, every post you make you either have a comment to make about "telling a story" or "because the smarks are wrong", in the words of Chris Jericho please shut the hell up and find some new material. Some material that people actually may find entertaining to read.



If you want a story go buy the Harry Potter series. If you want entertainment stick around these forums and learn about the different opinions on wrestling. Mistico may not do everything perfect Mr. Smark, but what he does wrong is a hell of a lot more entertaining than what most people within the company do. And remember, Sports "Entertainment."



No. Mysterio vs. Psychosis, Rey tries to use the guard rail as a launching pad to dive onto Psychosis, he slips, falls back, gets back up and does the move again, so using Rey isn't one of the smartest moves you could have done there chief. Secondly, during his match with Tyson Kidd, Mistico didn't land a Springboard Dive correctly and sold it, sold it so much that Kidd was up before him.



I'd listen to Necro Butcher lecture me about parralling styles of professional wrestling before Quackenbush. Mistico improved week-after-week, when they bring the guy in and don't send him to development like they should have done they only have themselves to blame for any mistake he may make.



At least we agree on one thing. And not once did you mention the word, "smark", well done. Try and continue the streak.

Entertaining to read? "Telling a story" is what they do...in the words of CM Punk.

By "a story" I don't just mean the storyline. I mean the 10-15 minute story they tell in the ring. Yes, it is sports "entertainment" but the mainstream american audience doesn't like random flippiness, they never have and likely never will because it looks too fake. The example I always use is Mysterio vs Guerrero Halloween Havoc '97. A ton of amazing spots those people had never seen. However, they all had reason and every move meant something and told a story and Rey sold his ass off. Mistico doesn't do that.

That was a younger Mysterio you used. I said late 90s, which is when he learned the American style, not the mid 90s Mysterio still wrestling a more Lucha style in ECW. Wrestler's evolve. I mean, I could say "Ric Flair is awesome" and you could say "That kid in the 70s who was chunky?" but that'd be fuckin stupid.

Mistico fell off the top rope, halfway sold it, then gets up and reset the spot. It looked embarrassingly fake. I'm not saying he won't improve, I'm saying he needs to adapt his style.

Why would you listen to Necro before Quack? Quack is pretty respected. Yes, there are a lot of similarities. I'm not saying they're different. They both tell stories and both are combat entertainment. However, the way you get over in each is slightly different. They even have different rings. A "lucha ring" is one with a hard surface because they do more roll bumps and need a more stable platform for balance when they base for lucha moves. Their ropes are stiffer too so they can spring more. A "bump ring" is what they use in the WWE. Looser ropes because they do more hitting the ropes instead of springing off and a less stiff mat because they take more flat bumps. The fact that they use different rings alone should show you just how different the two styles are.

Mistico did improve and he should have been sent to FCW first. He still has a long way to go though.

Don't lecture me on smarks. That's what most people on here are. I'll start segregating it into "spot marks" and "attitude era marks" instead if you'd like me to be more clear.

I'm definately not repetitive, how many "unlike Cena" comments do you see? Say the same things you hear a lot of pro wrestlers say. It's about storytelling and creating an emotional response from the audience. Just because I'm not the typical moves counting spot mark who hates Cena and loves any undersized kick pad wrestler who isn't over doesn't mean my opinion is less valid. I don't follow the smarky trends because I actually think for myself.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Entertaining to read? "Telling a story" is what they do...in the words of CM Punk.

Telling a story and entertaining the masses. Sometimes giving people pure entertainment is all one needs, instead of being like you and simply trying to negate a match because it doesn't fit into your defintion of what wrestling should be. I've read enough of your shit posts, all you do is blab on about how a match should all but be ignored if it doesn't tell a story.

You need to wake up a take in a new perspective of professional wrestling my friend.

By "a story" I don't just mean the storyline. I mean the 10-15 minute story they tell in the ring. Yes, it is sports "entertainment" but the mainstream american audience doesn't like random flippiness, they never have and likely never will because it looks too fake. The example I always use is Mysterio vs Guerrero Halloween Havoc '97. A ton of amazing spots those people had never seen. However, they all had reason and every move meant something and told a story and Rey sold his ass off. Mistico doesn't do that.

Mistico's style differs to that of the American one, we were discussing this last month. Its the WWE's fault if the "mainstream American audience" dislike what Mistico does, because Mistico wasn't sent to the appropiate development territory to train and do what people like YOU want! But yet every week he came out, in our Live Discussions on this forum everyone praised him. There is always those couple that'll bitch because he lands a Diving Crossbody a little to the left, but that's because they are smarks.

I hope you're catching on to the fact I'm refering to your little snippet from your first post, let me help you remember. "if you can't do moves 100% of the time don't do them." It takes two people to do half of his move-set, it was even pointed out in a thread from about a month ago that he lands the majority of his moves but his opponent is either out of position or catches him awkwardly, not his fault.

And he doesn't sell. He sold pretty well against Christian. He sold pretty well against Tyson Kidd. And he sold damn well when he was driven threw the Ladder at Money in The Bank.

That was a younger Mysterio you used. I said late 90s, which is when he learned the American style, not the mid 90s Mysterio still wrestling a more Lucha style in ECW. Wrestler's evolve. I mean, I could say "Ric Flair is awesome" and you could say "That kid in the 70s who was chunky?" but that'd be fuckin stupid.

Nah, I'm a fan of Ric Flair. I digress though, Rey Mysterio injured himself in '99 didn't he? I am certain he did, in a tag team match when he was in the Filthy Animals, and he was out for a few months. Why don't you jump on his back, huh? Injuring yourself doesn't count as telling a story, does it?

Mistico fell off the top rope, halfway sold it, then gets up and reset the spot. It looked embarrassingly fake. I'm not saying he won't improve, I'm saying he needs to adapt his style.

Oh Jesus, you're going back to his second week in the company? When you don't know English and you can't spot call, you're in a pretty hard situation. AGAIN, not his fault, WWE's fault. They didn't send him to development to learn what they feel is neccesary and therefore you can direct your complaints through the corporate WWE website.

Why would you listen to Necro before Quack? Quack is pretty respected. Yes, there are a lot of similarities. I'm not saying they're different. They both tell stories and both are combat entertainment. However, the way you get over in each is slightly different. They even have different rings. A "lucha ring" is one with a hard surface because they do more roll bumps and need a more stable platform for balance when they base for lucha moves. Their ropes are stiffer too so they can spring more. A "bump ring" is what they use in the WWE. Looser ropes because they do more hitting the ropes instead of springing off and a less stiff mat because they take more flat bumps. The fact that they use different rings alone should show you just how different the two styles are.

I knew a decent bit of that, but you're ignoring my point so I shall state for the third time in this post alone.

Mistico. Was not. Sent. To development in Florida. Therefore. Any style issues. That he may have on live television or elsewhere. Any adaptibility issues he may have. Are. Because. WWE. Didn't. Send. Him. To. Florida. To. Develop.

I even made it as bright as day on this occasion. That's a lot of full-stops.

Mistico did improve and he should have been sent to FCW first. He still has a long way to go though.

So you understand that he wasn't sent to development and you STILL criticize him? Fuck. Me!!

Don't lecture me on smarks. That's what most people on here are. I'll start segregating it into "spot marks" and "attitude era marks" instead if you'd like me to be more clear.

Please. Don't! You badger on needlessly about smarks as it is, hell I'm contemplating setting you up your own thread so you can post in there day-by-day about smarks, even though you come across as one which I find hypocritcial on your part but I digress.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Telling a story and entertaining the masses. Sometimes giving people pure entertainment is all one needs, instead of being like you and simply trying to negate a match because it doesn't fit into your defintion of what wrestling should be. I've read enough of your shit posts, all you do is blab on about how a match should all but be ignored if it doesn't tell a story.

You need to wake up a take in a new perspective of professional wrestling my friend.



Mistico's style differs to that of the American one, we were discussing this last month. Its the WWE's fault if the "mainstream American audience" dislike what Mistico does, because Mistico wasn't sent to the appropiate development territory to train and do what people like YOU want! But yet every week he came out, in our Live Discussions on this forum everyone praised him. There is always those couple that'll bitch because he lands a Diving Crossbody a little to the left, but that's because they are smarks.

I hope you're catching on to the fact I'm refering to your little snippet from your first post, let me help you remember. "if you can't do moves 100% of the time don't do them." It takes two people to do half of his move-set, it was even pointed out in a thread from about a month ago that he lands the majority of his moves but his opponent is either out of position or catches him awkwardly, not his fault.

And he doesn't sell. He sold pretty well against Christian. He sold pretty well against Tyson Kidd. And he sold damn well when he was driven threw the Ladder at Money in The Bank.



Nah, I'm a fan of Ric Flair. I digress though, Rey Mysterio injured himself in '99 didn't he? I am certain he did, in a tag team match when he was in the Filthy Animals, and he was out for a few months. Why don't you jump on his back, huh? Injuring yourself doesn't count as telling a story, does it?



Oh Jesus, you're going back to his second week in the company? When you don't know English and you can't spot call, you're in a pretty hard situation. AGAIN, not his fault, WWE's fault. They didn't send him to development to learn what they feel is neccesary and therefore you can direct your complaints through the corporate WWE website.



I knew a decent bit of that, but you're ignoring my point so I shall state for the third time in this post alone.

Mistico. Was not. Sent. To development in Florida. Therefore. Any style issues. That he may have on live television or elsewhere. Any adaptibility issues he may have. Are. Because. WWE. Didn't. Send. Him. To. Florida. To. Develop.

I even made it as bright as day on this occasion. That's a lot of full-stops.



So you understand that he wasn't sent to development and you STILL criticize him? Fuck. Me!!



Please. Don't! You badger on needlessly about smarks as it is, hell I'm contemplating setting you up your own thread so you can post in there day-by-day about smarks, even though you come across as one which I find hypocritcial on your part but I digress.

I'm not saying it should be ignored if it doesn't tell a story. I say that it won't get over. Watch impact, people cared more about Mickie James vs ODB because it told a story than the clusterfuck spotfest X gauntlet.

A "new perspective" of pro wrestling? Here's the deal, I started as a mark like anyone else, then became very smarky, I hated Cena and loved spotfests. Then I started to realize why those guys (spotters) weren't over. So really, I've already seen things from these other perspectives. I think it's stupid to work a style of match that won't and has never gotten over. What's wrong with that? If I say "a batter shouldn't bat with his eyes closed" should I really just try to look at a new perspective? This whole "don't worry about selling or ring psychology" thing isn't a "new perspective" the internet marks have been doing it for years. Even inventing terms like "workrate" that don't exist.

So now you know what I like? I don't ever really say what I like because I'm one person. I look at what gets over and that's what I think most guys should strive for, getting over. Who gives a shit if a few spot marks like what he does. They also like Alex Shelley who has never been over with anyone but the smarks. Alex Shelley who doesn't sell and looks fake. Their opinion doesn't matter. What matters is the mainstream audience (when you're in a mainstream company).

You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to review an ROH show so you can see where I'm coming from. You see, every audience is different. I don't look at ROH matches the same way as WWE matches. If you have a match in ROH and WWE, and identical match, it can be awesome in ROH and bad in WWE. The audiences aren't the same. In pro wrestling, you work your audience. Maybe then you'll stop thinking you know what I like. What I like is wrestler's who know how to work their audience and adapt. Chris Hero is one of the best in the world at this, he even makes fun of his audiences at times without them knowing. Like when he would randomly do gymnastics in front of the ROH crowd, kinda of like "this is what you guys like right? Moves?"

If you and your opponent can't do all the moves, then don't do them. How's that? Also, nobody on here (at least 99.9%) hasn't been trained by a reputable trainer, so no one on here actually knows what "out of position" is. If you fuck up a spot, then go with it. If you fuck it up pretty bad and it looks fake, then you probably shouldn't have done it. Mistakes happen though, like I said, I honestly don't mind botches that much. If you slip on the top rope, if you stumble when taking a cross body you're supposed to catch and fall down, that's fine. That's understandable and can add a new layer to the match. If your opponent completely whiffs on a kick and you still sell it like crazy, then that's a botch I can't stand.

Selling is a long term thing. Yes, Mistico got a LOT better. Selling isn't just taking a move in a really gruesome mannor and then going back about the match 30 seconds later. You have short and long term selling. RVD is a great example of a guy who has great short term selling but pretty weak long term selling. Watch how Daniel Bryan sells the arm against ADR on SD. That's fantastic all around selling. Trevor Murdoch, for what it's worth, once said "try to steal the show with your selling".

That's just ignorant, that last part about getting injured. Injuries happen. They can also tell a story. I forget the PPV, but Mysterio had never tapped out before. He was against Jericho. Jericho works the leg then kills it against the stairs. Mysterio goes for a top rope rana, Jericho counters it into the walls (really awesome looking counter). This was the old WCW walls too, not the boston crab. Mysterio taps immediately, which really put over how hurt his knee was.

I agree, WWE should have sent him. I'm not really complaining about Mistico. In my original post you said you were a fan of him, then said a lot of people weren't because "he botches". I said "no, I wasn't as big of a fan of him because he was too spotty". I appreciate the work he does and how much he tries. It is the WWE's fault, they should have sent him down. That doesn't change the fact that I didn't like his matches.

When I say "smark" I'm referring to the majority of posters who want to push guys who aren't over and think more moves=better wrestling. Neither of those makes sense and neither of those have never been true in pro wrestling. The majority of posters on here bitch about the WWE doing the same thing any other business would do and then don't get why the WWE doesn't do exactly what they want and push the wrestlers they like.

Most people don't actually know what wrestlers I like or what my favorite matches are because I don't throw in "I like this wrestler, WWE should push him" I say "this guy is over, I understand why they push him" or "this guy isn't over, so why push him?"

My favorite match ever is KENTA vs Bryan Danielson ROH GBHVN2. So I'm not exactly this contrarian WWE mark version of a smark. I enjoy all pro wrestling and try to appreciate all pro wrestling. I don't think that just because I like Kenta Kobashi that the WWE should sign him and push him and have him wrestle the exact same style. That's stupid. However, just because I don't think Kobashi would work in the WWE and that his style would be bad and wouldn't get over, doesn't mean I don't enjoy the hell out of his matches. I'll even randomly watch shit I would otherwise have no reason to watch and try to understand it. I reccommend finding Rikidozan vs Thesz for a really interesting match, I think it's on youtube.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I'm not saying it should be ignored if it doesn't tell a story. I say that it won't get over. Watch impact, people cared more about Mickie James vs ODB because it told a story than the clusterfuck spotfest X gauntlet.

Again. I point to the Impact Wrestling LD. We all more-or-less shut off for the Knockouts match and watched the X-Division match, because the X-Division match was entertaining, Mickie vs. ODB was entertaining but nowhere near the same level of entertainment.

A "new perspective" of pro wrestling? Here's the deal, I started as a mark like anyone else, then became very smarky, I hated Cena and loved spotfests. Then I started to realize why those guys (spotters) weren't over. So really, I've already seen things from these other perspectives. I think it's stupid to work a style of match that won't and has never gotten over. What's wrong with that? If I say "a batter shouldn't bat with his eyes closed" should I really just try to look at a new perspective? This whole "don't worry about selling or ring psychology" thing isn't a "new perspective" the internet marks have been doing it for years. Even inventing terms like "workrate" that don't exist.

No, you need to understand that the new perspective which you need to rapidly see, is the one that everything, whether it be your beloved "telling a story" or someone elses "I love high flying spotfests", it all has a place in professional wrestling. It's what makes professional wrestling and you have no right to act like one is better than the other.

And the term work rate is a move used by professional wrestlers too. In Bret Hart's DVD, Jim Ross says Bret has the best work rate that he has ever seen to this day(Back on 2007) in the WWE. Work rate is defined as a term used to describe the in ring performance of the wrestlers. It doesn’t take into account any aspect of a wrestling other than the physical action.

So now you know what I like? I don't ever really say what I like because I'm one person. I look at what gets over and that's what I think most guys should strive for, getting over. Who gives a shit if a few spot marks like what he does. They also like Alex Shelley who has never been over with anyone but the smarks. Alex Shelley who doesn't sell and looks fake. Their opinion doesn't matter. What matters is the mainstream audience (when you're in a mainstream company).

I don't care what you like. You're a smark. I'll say it again, you = smark. I've been around wrestling forums for five years now, I've moderated on WrestleClique one of the biggest forums on the Internet, I've seen posters like you come and go and you always spew the same crap and I'm always here to shove it back down your throat.

Not everyone that likes Sin Cara is a spot mark. My current favorite wrestler overall is CM Punk, based on in-ring talent it's Daniel Bryan Danielson. I like Mistico; I ain't a spot mark. I just like to be entertained and there isn't anything wrong with that. You're basically trying to tell me I'm wrong, and that there is something wrong with it. Really, like I've said, it's you that is wrong. You have a one dimensional view on professional wrestling, and people won't take you seriously on any forum you go to due to that. So please, continue the way you are. I'm just going to sit back and smile, and allow you to keep pestering me, so I can keep stuffing this shit back down your throat.

You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to review an ROH show so you can see where I'm coming from. You see, every audience is different. I don't look at ROH matches the same way as WWE matches. If you have a match in ROH and WWE, and identical match, it can be awesome in ROH and bad in WWE. The audiences aren't the same. In pro wrestling, you work your audience. Maybe then you'll stop thinking you know what I like. What I like is wrestler's who know how to work their audience and adapt. Chris Hero is one of the best in the world at this, he even makes fun of his audiences at times without them knowing. Like when he would randomly do gymnastics in front of the ROH crowd, kinda of like "this is what you guys like right? Moves?"

I don't want you to review any show. I have Klunder and xfear for that, and both are open to all styles of professional wrestling and very rarely do I see them shit on a wrestler who doesn't deserve it - they don't babble on about telling a story either, which is why I'd take their opinions as more meaningful than yours.

Plus I became known on this forum for being a Ring of Honor supporter. I'm even on the ROH forum, and they'll probably disagree with you to. Because we have a column to discuss WWE and TNA and not even they, the ROH fans shit on people for not telling a story. Not that I've seen anyway.

If you and your opponent can't do all the moves, then don't do them. How's that? Also, nobody on here (at least 99.9%) hasn't been trained by a reputable trainer, so no one on here actually knows what "out of position" is. If you fuck up a spot, then go with it. If you fuck it up pretty bad and it looks fake, then you probably shouldn't have done it. Mistakes happen though, like I said, I honestly don't mind botches that much. If you slip on the top rope, if you stumble when taking a cross body you're supposed to catch and fall down, that's fine. That's understandable and can add a new layer to the match. If your opponent completely whiffs on a kick and you still sell it like crazy, then that's a botch I can't stand.

Out of position means they aren't in position to catch their opponent, it's pretty self-explanitory mate. Mistico has "fucked up" once, attempting his version of the Flux Capacitor or the Spanish Fly as its known. The thing is, nobody actually cares - obviously, asides you and your smark friends who constantly sit by your television jacking yourselves off as Sin Cara misses a diving crossbody by an inch and it doesn't look as good as it should!

Then there are us, the real wrestling fans who appreciate what the guy does and just shrug it off. Obviously you have those who are constantly terrible, example is Abyss. Dude doesn't even cut good promos, his image brings puke from the pit of my stomach - but I don't shit all over him everywhere I go. Cara doesn't know English, he hopped back up on the top rope because he couldn't make a spot call, its so simple to understand.

Selling is a long term thing. Yes, Mistico got a LOT better. Selling isn't just taking a move in a really gruesome mannor and then going back about the match 30 seconds later. You have short and long term selling. RVD is a great example of a guy who has great short term selling but pretty weak long term selling. Watch how Daniel Bryan sells the arm against ADR on SD. That's fantastic all around selling. Trevor Murdoch, for what it's worth, once said "try to steal the show with your selling".

Now you're explaining selling to me... Ugh. I'll tell you what, you watch this...

[YOUTUBE]a7o_L-k6WF0[/YOUTUBE]

I was searching for it to include the Brogue Kick, but Mistico sells everything to perfection, and yet you have the guff to come in the thread, say he doesn't know how at first and then come back and attempt to define what selling is to me? Ignorance but I can ignore it(See what I did there?)

That's just ignorant, that last part about getting injured. Injuries happen. They can also tell a story. I forget the PPV, but Mysterio had never tapped out before. He was against Jericho. Jericho works the leg then kills it against the stairs. Mysterio goes for a top rope rana, Jericho counters it into the walls (really awesome looking counter). This was the old WCW walls too, not the boston crab. Mysterio taps immediately, which really put over how hurt his knee was.

Bash at The Beach? I have that on VHS, actually great match, but that is getting away from my initial point. Mysterio botched a move and hurt himself in late '99, an injury hes been having problems with even recently. Mysterio botched, nobody jumps on his back, do they? No, but Mistico does a few high flying moves so we'll ride his back because that's the smark way to go about things.

I agree, WWE should have sent him. I'm not really complaining about Mistico. In my original post you said you were a fan of him, then said a lot of people weren't because "he botches". I said "no, I wasn't as big of a fan of him because he was too spotty". I appreciate the work he does and how much he tries. It is the WWE's fault, they should have sent him down. That doesn't change the fact that I didn't like his matches.

You're not a fan of him because he's too spotty, and hence why I've gone into how if you're to be an actual fan of professional wrestling as a whole you need to open yourself to all styles. If not, you only like a genre of professional wrestling, in your case its telling a story.

When I say "smark" I'm referring to the majority of posters who want to push guys who aren't over and think more moves=better wrestling. Neither of those makes sense and neither of those have never been true in pro wrestling. The majority of posters on here bitch about the WWE doing the same thing any other business would do and then don't get why the WWE doesn't do exactly what they want and push the wrestlers they like.

A smark to me is somebody who thinks they know everything that there is to know about professional wrestling; when they don't. See, I could consider myself a smark, but I actually don't think I've ever been one because smarks usually don't care for gimmicks or angles, I do. Smarks usually believe that their own personal preference is correct; sounds a bit similar to how you come across when you babble on about story telling and even in your little rant about Alex Shelley, huh?

Most people don't actually know what wrestlers I like or what my favorite matches are because I don't throw in "I like this wrestler, WWE should push him" I say "this guy is over, I understand why they push him" or "this guy isn't over, so why push him?"

Again, kind of makes you a smark. You're basing your opinions off the ins-and-outs of the company and what's going on behind the scene. In comparison and as an example, I was backing Chris Masters before his release, because I saw how much he improved on Superstars and NXT - you probably wanted Zack Ryder to be pushed because fans and his little "Revolution" jumped on everything that they could until WWE finally brought his overrated ass to the forefront?

My favorite match ever is KENTA vs Bryan Danielson ROH GBHVN2. So I'm not exactly this contrarian WWE mark version of a smark. I enjoy all pro wrestling and try to appreciate all pro wrestling. I don't think that just because I like Kenta Kobashi that the WWE should sign him and push him and have him wrestle the exact same style. That's stupid. However, just because I don't think Kobashi would work in the WWE and that his style would be bad and wouldn't get over, doesn't mean I don't enjoy the hell out of his matches. I'll even randomly watch shit I would otherwise have no reason to watch and try to understand it. I reccommend finding Rikidozan vs Thesz for a really interesting match, I think it's on youtube.

See what I underlined? You're contradicting yourself from earlier. You like this style, you have criticizms for being too "spotty" and yet you enjoy and appreciate all styles? You're more confusing than a rubic cube. I have no one favorite match, I have Kenta vs. Danielson on DVD, although I prefered KENTA vs. Joe but that's beyond the point. But I probably support two or three guys in every single style you can find.

That's enjoying all styles of pro-wrestling. And that's appreciating it.

 

[Gabriiel07]

Glad Mistico is coming back, he will be a huge draw in Mexico.

I just hope they make an actual feud for him, not only saving people, beating the ocassional heel, etc. Hoped he did some practice in his english while being suspended.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I'm glad to see the original is coming back. I do also like the idea of having a "sin cara" vs Sin Cara fued. Sounds like a interesting way to come back.

Plus- if they don't do it that way: how is Booker-T gonna explain all of his "sin cara is looking swoll. he been putting on muscle lately" bullshit that he's been spraying the last couple of weeks? What's he gonna say? Oh damn- Sin Cara lost all that weight & muscle that he gained recently. He faster/quicker now because of it.

By the way: Booker-T sucks as a announcer! When is someone gonna realize that??

 

[Skairipa Matrix]

good to see him back as sin cara i just hope we dont have sin cara vs sin cara with the whole mask vs mask whos the real sin cara angle? i just hate this idea i hated it with kane vs masked kane and i hated it when undertaker fueding with fake undertaker i never liked this idea hope it dies soon enough

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

The discussion between Dragon Saga and TWJC was pretty interesting. My thoughts on Cara are somewhat similar to that of Saga. If he botches so much and he cannot tell a story like some of the smarks love to point out, why does the mainstream audience love him so much? I'll answer that one. It is because he wrestles in a style that the WWE audience has not seen much off and they are awestruck by some of the stuff he can do. In the longer run, as he wrestles longer matches and wrestles higher up the card, he will surely have to get better but if you are evaluating the work he has done from his debut till date, you can surely not say that it is bad. Most of his matches that have been featured on television have been done for only one reason: so that he can wow the audience with his antics. Yes, he has weaknesses upon which he is improving upon slowly but he isn't really bad enough to criticize.

As for the news of him coming back, I do hope that he has learned something from this experience. Also, I do think that despite him returning to play the Sin Cara character without any mention of Hunico, a Hunico vs Mistico feud is still on the cards. I think that by showcasing Mistico, WWE really wants to highlight the difference between Hunico and Mistico. Maybe the WWE will even have Mistico wrestle as Cara this week and Hunico wrestle as Cara the week after till, one day, their paths collide.

 

[TimAH]

So he gets suspended but instead of it being much of an actual punishment they get a replacement wrestler to keep fans interested in his character while he is out. Doesn't seem like very strong discipline to me.

 

[gamma2008]

Uh...he probably isn't getting paid during that suspension, that's the punishment.

Sin Cara is one of my favorites, though I do hate the special lighting. The only reason he hasn't had any major feuds or anything is because he barely speaks english, if at all. I kinda wish Ricardo Rodriguez was working with him as a translator rather than introducing Albeeerrtooooooooooo Deeeeeeeeelllllllll Rrriiiiiiiiooooo

 

[Common man]

Mistico need a new character because I think Hunico did a great job of playing Sin Cara better. Mistico has been a botchfest again again and again. How long does it take to understand the style that Wwe play? Hunico came an did his job and did botch a single thing. Why mess with something good?