**MERGED** The Shield Discussion - Matches, angles, etc (Keep It In Here!!!!)
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The Butcher
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You say "not another lame stable," but I feel the exact opposite. Having strong factions and stables governed by a central manager are old wrestling tropes that haven't been used enough in recent years. Go ahead and make Heyman's guys a stable. It doesn't destroy any future prospect of Punk vs Lesnar; it would actually help build that story. In the meantime, they're collectively the number one menace in the business.
NotoriousMEAT
TWITTER: @Son_Broku
I'd prefer Punk not know anything about all Heyman's schemes. Heyman did a fantastic job during Punk's reign playing this, borderline obsessed advisor. Always crying tears of joy, sometimes tears of sadness. He was in love with Punk's success. He being so desperate to keep a good thing going that he always ensures there's a plan B for Punk makes sense. And this was a special title reign that will be remembered for a long time. I'd hate for them to tarnish it by having Punk paying people for 4 months to help him retain. I don't think Heyman can manage both Punk and Brock (unless they form a destructive power trip) and Heyman going behind Punk's back would be a great way for Punk to tell Heyman to piss off. He can go into Elimination Chamber determined to beat Rocky on his own. Heyman just had Maddox mugged in a dark corridor, so that's pretty much the end of that alignment. Shield and Heyman may stay associates through Mania season.. but I don't see any stable coming out of all this. Just Heyman and Lesnar reuniting.
I don't see this becoming a stable as much as I would love for these guys to form a group, with the exception of Maddox.
I love CM Punk as the leader of a stable though it never seems to work out for the best.
Brock Lesnar is a loaner. He doesn't need a group of people to kick someone's ass, he does it himself.
The Shield have been revealed as mercenaries. They're only helping Punk & Heyman because they're being paid to do so. They're their own unit.
For the most part I see these guys doing they're own thing. They might interact every now and then but nothing that says were officially a group.
I love CM Punk as the leader of a stable though it never seems to work out for the best.
Brock Lesnar is a loaner. He doesn't need a group of people to kick someone's ass, he does it himself.
The Shield have been revealed as mercenaries. They're only helping Punk & Heyman because they're being paid to do so. They're their own unit.
For the most part I see these guys doing they're own thing. They might interact every now and then but nothing that says were officially a group.
I think Heymans Mafia is catchier.
Think about it. Maddox made everything too obvious, he was too "loud" with his Heyman love. He got beaten down as his punishment. I don't think Punk should know about it, but him going face would be horrible right now. He's on fire as a heel.
Think about it. Maddox made everything too obvious, he was too "loud" with his Heyman love. He got beaten down as his punishment. I don't think Punk should know about it, but him going face would be horrible right now. He's on fire as a heel.
NotoriousMEAT
TWITTER: @Son_Broku
As much as I don't want CM Punk to have anything to do with all of Heman's plots, that doesn't mean I want him to turn face. As far as I'm concerned, Punk should stay heel for the remainder of his career. After losing a rematch to The Rock at EC and getting bumped from the title picture, him challenging to end Undertaker's streak is the perfect angle for him to prove he's still a threat and can beat anyone on any given night.
I think somewhere down the line we will see a Punk vs Brock fued, but not now. Rock is Champ, Cena is in the title picture, Ryback is around.....there is no room for a top face!!!
I said back back in August on here that at WM29 I would have Taker/Triple H vs Brock/Punk in a tag match at WM29. Not saying it is going to happen but looks like the seeds could have been planted. I can tell you one thing, Brock vs Triple H is a given now, I just hope Punk and Taker are added to the match! It makes complete sense.....
So after losing to Rock at the Rumble and Elimination Chamber you want Punk to challenge the streak 1 on 1?!
I said back back in August on here that at WM29 I would have Taker/Triple H vs Brock/Punk in a tag match at WM29. Not saying it is going to happen but looks like the seeds could have been planted. I can tell you one thing, Brock vs Triple H is a given now, I just hope Punk and Taker are added to the match! It makes complete sense.....
So after losing to Rock at the Rumble and Elimination Chamber you want Punk to challenge the streak 1 on 1?!
I agree on facing Taker, but Punk can't just shrug off Heyman keeping it a secret.
Heyman is the ultimate heel. Heyman doesn't care for Punk. He cares for himself. He cares for the fame. He used Punk because he was the champion. Heyman used whatever he could to keep the title on Punk, for himself. Punk lost the title and the very next night, Heyman made sure Brock was there. He can't trust Punk to win the title. He will keep Punk around to be a part of ending the streak and when Punk fails to do so at Wrestlemania, Heyman loses it.
That's why I think on the next night of RAW after Mania, The Shield takes out Punk for Heyman.
Punk comes back like Austin. A bad ass motherfucker.
That's the only way I can see Punk ever being a face, again and he will get his break after Mania "due to injuries from The Shield."
Heyman is the ultimate heel. Heyman doesn't care for Punk. He cares for himself. He cares for the fame. He used Punk because he was the champion. Heyman used whatever he could to keep the title on Punk, for himself. Punk lost the title and the very next night, Heyman made sure Brock was there. He can't trust Punk to win the title. He will keep Punk around to be a part of ending the streak and when Punk fails to do so at Wrestlemania, Heyman loses it.
That's why I think on the next night of RAW after Mania, The Shield takes out Punk for Heyman.
Punk comes back like Austin. A bad ass motherfucker.
That's the only way I can see Punk ever being a face, again and he will get his break after Mania "due to injuries from The Shield."
NotoriousMEAT
TWITTER: @Son_Broku
Yeah? The Undertaker vs CM Punk at WrestleMania is a match I've always wanted. In a perfect world, Punk never would have lost the belt, and it would have been his 500+ day title reign against The Streak!
BenChillin
Pre-Show Stalwart
Well, we'll see what happens after the Chamber match.
It's obviously The Shield vs. Cena, Sheamus, and Ryback. Probably a tornado elimination 6 man in the Chamber.
But could this turn Brock and Punk into a match if he's not in the triple threat for the title at mania?
It's obviously The Shield vs. Cena, Sheamus, and Ryback. Probably a tornado elimination 6 man in the Chamber.
But could this turn Brock and Punk into a match if he's not in the triple threat for the title at mania?
I'd prefer if Heyman acted like Bobby Heenan with his Heenan Family and was the sole constant link running through all his stable. I don't need the Shield being swallowed up by Brock and Punk as I feel they can stand alone.
It could make for an interesting storyline in a few months if Brock continues down the path of being the uncontrollable monster. That Heyman started something that he regrets by unleashing Brock on the WWE and he needs to turn his other guys against Brock to try and stop him
It could make for an interesting storyline in a few months if Brock continues down the path of being the uncontrollable monster. That Heyman started something that he regrets by unleashing Brock on the WWE and he needs to turn his other guys against Brock to try and stop him
Top heel? Sure. He's being considered the top heel atm since they're making him feud with The Rock. But as far as his character goes, he's just too generic and dull. And Brock or The Shield could easily take his "top" spot.
boywithbluehanger
I have to poop.
The way The Shield have been made out last night, they're basically APA version 2.0. Albeit a heel APA but hired hands nonetheless. I'm ok with this by the way but I'd like to see them branch out in a more effective way. I mean, The Shield is a heel faction now but at some point they need to be able to make the transition to face or anti-heroes even. So I think the best way to accomplish this is to drop the whole justice aspect of their initial debut and chalk it all up to them keeping their mouths shut about who was paying them.
Also, they'll need to be put in matches on RAW and Smackdown eventually so why not have them infiltrate two divisions of the roster - The tag team division and the midcard. Ambrose can work his way up the midcard through The Shield's help in his matches and Rollins/Reigns can move up in the TT tier with Ambrose's interference. However what's inevitable, is that a few players are going to have to be dragged down to jobber status to make way for them. The roster is just way too full of guys for everyone to get pushed. So you might see guys like Sandow and Rhodes staying a TT, Kingston being used for transitional titles, Miz and Cesaro having an extra dull feud, and other guys like 3MB waiting longer and longer for their sliver of a chance.
Also, they'll need to be put in matches on RAW and Smackdown eventually so why not have them infiltrate two divisions of the roster - The tag team division and the midcard. Ambrose can work his way up the midcard through The Shield's help in his matches and Rollins/Reigns can move up in the TT tier with Ambrose's interference. However what's inevitable, is that a few players are going to have to be dragged down to jobber status to make way for them. The roster is just way too full of guys for everyone to get pushed. So you might see guys like Sandow and Rhodes staying a TT, Kingston being used for transitional titles, Miz and Cesaro having an extra dull feud, and other guys like 3MB waiting longer and longer for their sliver of a chance.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
What does this mean for them going forward? While we've always suspected that The Shield have been in cahoots with Heyman & CM Punk, it revealed officially that there has been an alliance between them. I'm guessing that Brad Maddox, who was assaulted by The Shield, is the one who ultimately sent the video to Vince to incriminate Heyman, which will probably result in Maddox being "given" a contract with WWE.
So now that this has been revealed, I think it's time that WWE moved forward with The Shield. The beatdowns are all well and good, and still entertaining to me, but the group is in danger of becoming stale. We're on the Road to WrestleMania, so this is the perfect time for the company to do something more concrete with them apart from the vague search for justice thing that's been their M.O. since they arrived.
Since Vince McMahon is injured with a "broken pelvis", I'm assuming this means that Heyman isn't "fired" after all. I'd like to see Heyman take a direct role in managing The Shield. The idea of CM Punk, Brock Lesnar & The Shield as a faction of Paul Heyman guys is intriguing. Pairing The Shield up with Punk, Lesnar & Heyman openly during the build to WM is a great way for the "rookies" to get a rub heading towards the biggest show of the year.
At the very least, I think it's time for The Shield to become more frequent members of the roster. You know, conduct promos inside the ring and wrestle matches rather than popping up and beating down guys. It's helped establish them very well, but I think it's time for WWE to take the next step with them.
So now that this has been revealed, I think it's time that WWE moved forward with The Shield. The beatdowns are all well and good, and still entertaining to me, but the group is in danger of becoming stale. We're on the Road to WrestleMania, so this is the perfect time for the company to do something more concrete with them apart from the vague search for justice thing that's been their M.O. since they arrived.
Since Vince McMahon is injured with a "broken pelvis", I'm assuming this means that Heyman isn't "fired" after all. I'd like to see Heyman take a direct role in managing The Shield. The idea of CM Punk, Brock Lesnar & The Shield as a faction of Paul Heyman guys is intriguing. Pairing The Shield up with Punk, Lesnar & Heyman openly during the build to WM is a great way for the "rookies" to get a rub heading towards the biggest show of the year.
At the very least, I think it's time for The Shield to become more frequent members of the roster. You know, conduct promos inside the ring and wrestle matches rather than popping up and beating down guys. It's helped establish them very well, but I think it's time for WWE to take the next step with them.
Now they've been revealed as Paul Heyman guys they'll now become the guys who get beaten down so the bigger Paul Heyman guys are protected. That's how I see it anyway. Hopefully I'm wrong.
What needs to happen first is that they need to be booked in matches. Beatdowns are all well and good, but they need to face and defeat some mid-card talent. Have them win the tag titles and have them adopt a Freebird type rule. At the same time also have them face some headline talent and, in singles matches, have them lose but give them experience in Raw main events.
On the road to WrestleMania I'd use them specifically to protect Punk and to a lesser extent Lesnar. Have them get beat down plenty whilst at the same time have them take out three specific superstars so that a 6-man match can be made between them at Mania.
What needs to happen first is that they need to be booked in matches. Beatdowns are all well and good, but they need to face and defeat some mid-card talent. Have them win the tag titles and have them adopt a Freebird type rule. At the same time also have them face some headline talent and, in singles matches, have them lose but give them experience in Raw main events.
On the road to WrestleMania I'd use them specifically to protect Punk and to a lesser extent Lesnar. Have them get beat down plenty whilst at the same time have them take out three specific superstars so that a 6-man match can be made between them at Mania.
#hamler
That's all folks.
Damn straight. For anyone who is new to the roster like these three gentlemen, even being in the same sentence as Brock Lesnar and CM Punk could do wonders for their career. I too would love to see the three of them in more traditional wrestling matches to see what they're truly made of; I know I've been dying to see Dean Ambrose knee someone's face off. Now that Paul Heyman has officially admitted that the Shield was his creation, I'd love to see them remain in cahoots with Heyman and help Punk and Lesnar is their respective feuds going toward Wrestlemania. What a better way for three young guys to get a rub then by continuously attacking both Punk and Lesnar's opponents for Wrestlemania in the upcoming weeks. And if the rumors are indeed true – Lesnar/Triple H, Punk/Undertaker – imagine the amount of heat these three would get. With that said, their match a couple months back at TLC was a delight. It makes me want to see what these guys can do as singles wrestlers.
King Patrick Star
K. O. T. R. 2007 - Team Undisputed
It is time for the Shield to move up to the next step. It is time for the Shield to challenge for Championships in the WWE. Its also time for the Shield to gain a 4th member from the NXT roster. Id like to see them win the Intercontinental, United States, and Unified WWE World Tag Team Championships some time this year with CM Punk and Brock Lesnar in the WWE and World Title picture. I want the Paul Heyman Guys to be portrayed as the Extreme Dangerous Alliance. Now the question is, whos the 4th P. H. Guy??
MWRedskins
Mid-Card Championship Winner
well, my hope is that they keep denying they work for them, but anyways, as for what I want, personally, I am hopeful that they work an EC tag match with the team of Cena, Sheamus and Ryback and not get squashed...I wonder if they can do an Elimination Chamber Tag Team type of match?? that would be good to watch.....anyways, my hope after they end the feud with those 3 at EC, that they move on and win the Tag Team titles at WM. I am a big fan of Rollins and Ambrose. Ambrose can really speak and Rollins reminds me so much of Punk and Reigns is nice being the muscle of the group...I wouldn't mind seeing them as Tag Champs with the Freebird Rule where all 3 are Tag Team Champions.
I was waiting for the Brad Maddox camera crew to be involved with this angle in some manner. When Vince shared there was footage, I was hoping it would be something questionable and inconclusive.
Instead we clearly get Heyman spilling the beans and see how they plus Maddox had all been working together.
In the end, we get Lesnar back, but I really wanted the WWE to provide some nice twist with this angle. I wanted Punk to be telling the truth just to complicate things even more. It just seems like they could have done so much more with this angle.
So all that being said, were you disappointed that Heyman was behind it or was that the outcome you hoped for?
Instead we clearly get Heyman spilling the beans and see how they plus Maddox had all been working together.
In the end, we get Lesnar back, but I really wanted the WWE to provide some nice twist with this angle. I wanted Punk to be telling the truth just to complicate things even more. It just seems like they could have done so much more with this angle.
So all that being said, were you disappointed that Heyman was behind it or was that the outcome you hoped for?
Fire Marshall Bill
Let me show ya somethin!!!
The problem with the angle of Punk not knowing about it is it would eventually lead to him turning face. Paul Heyman just cost him the title. Do you really think Punk would just sit back and whine about it to Paul Heyman? No, he'd kick his ass, or threaten to until Brock saved Heyman and then you have the feud.
What sense would it make to Punk going back to being a face so quickly?
Could they have done something better than align them with Punk/Heyman? Of course. I mean, what does attacking Rey, Cara, Cena, Sheamus and Orton have anything to do with Punk? They don't really. At least right now. It's most likely another case of the WWE writers starting a story and launching it before ever writing the end. For example, the anonymous Raw GM. It also explains why most of their attacks just didn't make a whole lot of sense, even with the "injustice" angle, because half the guys weren't doing any "injustice" that they could explain. They never had the "injustice" angle written to the end, so they just wrote it off by aligning them with Heyman.
What sense would it make to Punk going back to being a face so quickly?
Could they have done something better than align them with Punk/Heyman? Of course. I mean, what does attacking Rey, Cara, Cena, Sheamus and Orton have anything to do with Punk? They don't really. At least right now. It's most likely another case of the WWE writers starting a story and launching it before ever writing the end. For example, the anonymous Raw GM. It also explains why most of their attacks just didn't make a whole lot of sense, even with the "injustice" angle, because half the guys weren't doing any "injustice" that they could explain. They never had the "injustice" angle written to the end, so they just wrote it off by aligning them with Heyman.
SuperKick36
Pre-Show Stalwart
While I found the angle rather predictable, I felt that there weren't many other options to go with. I was really hoping for a shocking result, such as Lesnar being behind The Shield.
Before the past couple weeks, I was also hoping for The Rock to turn heel and be behind them, but then he was attacked.
The following were a few other characters I thought could be behind The Shield that I personally thought were possible (though doubtful):
1. Chris Jericho
2. Wade Barrett
3. Ric Flair
4. Michael Cole
5. HHH
6. JBL
7. Cena
8. Brad Maddox (yeah, this one is wierd but... you never know)
Heyman (and Punk) being behind The Shield is probably the most logical option, however.
The BEST time to turn Cena heel in the past several years was this past Monday when they surrounded the ring. BEST CHANCE. But no, Cena is too selfish and the WWE doesn't value suprises and shock anymore... but I digress.
I think that there COULD BE more to this whole story than we have seen, and perhaps Punk really doesn't have as much involvement as we thought initially. Then again... WWE's writing lately has been shockingly PREDICTABLE. Hopefully, they right the ship soon. TNA has been far more entertaining (IMO), even WITH the Brooke/Bully wedding.
Before the past couple weeks, I was also hoping for The Rock to turn heel and be behind them, but then he was attacked.
The following were a few other characters I thought could be behind The Shield that I personally thought were possible (though doubtful):
1. Chris Jericho
2. Wade Barrett
3. Ric Flair
4. Michael Cole
5. HHH
6. JBL
7. Cena
8. Brad Maddox (yeah, this one is wierd but... you never know)
Heyman (and Punk) being behind The Shield is probably the most logical option, however.
The BEST time to turn Cena heel in the past several years was this past Monday when they surrounded the ring. BEST CHANCE. But no, Cena is too selfish and the WWE doesn't value suprises and shock anymore... but I digress.
I think that there COULD BE more to this whole story than we have seen, and perhaps Punk really doesn't have as much involvement as we thought initially. Then again... WWE's writing lately has been shockingly PREDICTABLE. Hopefully, they right the ship soon. TNA has been far more entertaining (IMO), even WITH the Brooke/Bully wedding.
I think the whole point was Heyman saying he "paid" the Shield to help Punk which would lead the audience to believe that they are hired guns. Who's the say that Heyman was the only one paying of the Shield? Perhaps there is another puppet master who is pimping the Shield's sevices out to the highest bidder. Or maybe it's part of a secondary agenda that the Shield has.
Point is there is a logical way to work around this and explain the other attacks.
Point is there is a logical way to work around this and explain the other attacks.
They don't really have to still be behind the Shield though, do they? They were careful with the language they used, Paul saying 'We pay the Shield when we need them'. That could imply that alot of the other beatdowns are still them, and for someone else, and they were just on loan to Punk/Heyman as needed.
King Patrick Star
K. O. T. R. 2007 - Team Undisputed
The WWE is far from perfect. I could go back all the way to March 31, 1985 and revise everything and I probably still wouldnt be 100% happy with the product. Ive even revised my WWE Universe in WWE 12 and WWE 13 so many times, you would think I was Vince McMahon.
With that said, I agree that revealing Brad Maddox and the Shield as Paul Heyman Guys all along could have been done a lot better. It was plausible, but there was room for improvement.
Instead of simply showing the video in its entirety, I would have had the feed cut out with CM Punks entrance music. CM Punk comes out on stage with Brad Maddox behind him and points to his left. Out comes the Shield. They all enter the ring and proceed to beat down the Chairman, Owner, CEO, and King of the WWE. Then here comes John Cena, followed by Randy Orton, followed by Ryback, followed by Sheamus and finally Triple H himself. Its 5 on 5, Faces getting the advantage and then here comes the Pain!! The last thing you see is the Heyman guys standing tall over the Faces of the WWE.
Then next week it could be revealed that Brad Maddox used Paul Heyman to get in, only to turn on him and trade the video evidence to Vince in exchange for a WWE contract.
Im sure there are a hundreds of scenarios that could have been better than what we got, but what actually happened wasnt that bad.
With that said, I agree that revealing Brad Maddox and the Shield as Paul Heyman Guys all along could have been done a lot better. It was plausible, but there was room for improvement.
Instead of simply showing the video in its entirety, I would have had the feed cut out with CM Punks entrance music. CM Punk comes out on stage with Brad Maddox behind him and points to his left. Out comes the Shield. They all enter the ring and proceed to beat down the Chairman, Owner, CEO, and King of the WWE. Then here comes John Cena, followed by Randy Orton, followed by Ryback, followed by Sheamus and finally Triple H himself. Its 5 on 5, Faces getting the advantage and then here comes the Pain!! The last thing you see is the Heyman guys standing tall over the Faces of the WWE.
Then next week it could be revealed that Brad Maddox used Paul Heyman to get in, only to turn on him and trade the video evidence to Vince in exchange for a WWE contract.
Im sure there are a hundreds of scenarios that could have been better than what we got, but what actually happened wasnt that bad.