**MERGED** Chris Jericho Suspended
- Thread starter JETER123
- Start date
I would be very offended if someone started *********ing in public. You wouldn't be?
Let me reiterate when I say there are more important things than the artistry of a professional wrestling performance. Saying "but it was only a work!" means absolutely jack and shit to me. I know what a work is; the problem is that the work was taken too far.
You are wrong when you say a heel's job is to offend people; you only understand part of the equation. A heel's job, like every other professional wrestler, is to draw money. A heel doesn't do it by making the fans love him and buying his merchandise; a heel draws money by giving the face something to contrast against. The whole system gets fucked up when a heel forgets the difference between making a face look good, and just plain pissing people off, which is the case here.
You might not agree with people's opinions on flag desecration, but your opinion doesn't matter for shit in Brazil.
ITrippedTheShockmaster
A Role Model and Paragon of Virtue
I believe it's legit and NOT an angle. As said earlier, if they wanted to write him off for when he leaves to tour with Fozzy, they'd do something on camera. This was Jericho trying to draw heat in a match with C.M. Punk and ad-libbing to do so (WWE has stated that they did not script this), only making a pretty big mistake. I'm a huge Jericho fan, but I have to admit that he screwed up here and I'm kind of disappointed. He should know better than this.
From everything I hear about Brazil, it's a beautiful country that I'd love to visit some day... with citizens who are very patriotic, especially when it comes to sports. If you want to draw heat, then disrespecting a country's flag is a pretty good way to go. But in Brazil, it seems like it goes a step further there. I understand that they have laws about disrespecting the flag, as many countries do, and kicking it into a crowd seems like it fits that bill. For people who are comparing it to what Shawn Michaels did to the Canadian flag, it's apples and oranges. Yes, wrestlers have disrespected flags before on numerous occasions, dating back to the 80s with The Iron Sheik and Nikolai Volkoff and the early 90s with Sgt. Slaughter (maybe further, but I remember that from being a fan in the 80s). but think about where it happened and which flags it happened to? Mainly in the U.S. and Canada, which are a lot more loose about disrespecting flags. This happened in Brazil. WWE talent should know their boundaries as to what they can do to draw heat from an international crowd. Jericho overstepped that boundary with this. He broke the law and was lucky they let him off by apologizing.
Do I believe Jericho really almost got arrested for doing this? Yes. They stopped the match and made him apologize in public or be arrested. Think about that. If he wouldn't have, things could have escalated. Jericho is not an idiot, so he chose the smart option.
Do I think Jericho should have been suspended? No, but I understand why they did it. This wasn't planned, people, but WWE had to do something in terms of PR. I don't know how long Jericho will be suspended (the rest of the SA tour, perhaps?), but I feel like this had to be done to respond to it and appease the Brazilian people (especailly the ones WWE works with to bring live events there). Gotta keep that good relationship. Does this mean that Jericho will just be written off quicker to allow him to go on his tour with Fozzy, as was planned? Perhaps, but I think that it's coincidence that it happened now, not a work.
From everything I hear about Brazil, it's a beautiful country that I'd love to visit some day... with citizens who are very patriotic, especially when it comes to sports. If you want to draw heat, then disrespecting a country's flag is a pretty good way to go. But in Brazil, it seems like it goes a step further there. I understand that they have laws about disrespecting the flag, as many countries do, and kicking it into a crowd seems like it fits that bill. For people who are comparing it to what Shawn Michaels did to the Canadian flag, it's apples and oranges. Yes, wrestlers have disrespected flags before on numerous occasions, dating back to the 80s with The Iron Sheik and Nikolai Volkoff and the early 90s with Sgt. Slaughter (maybe further, but I remember that from being a fan in the 80s). but think about where it happened and which flags it happened to? Mainly in the U.S. and Canada, which are a lot more loose about disrespecting flags. This happened in Brazil. WWE talent should know their boundaries as to what they can do to draw heat from an international crowd. Jericho overstepped that boundary with this. He broke the law and was lucky they let him off by apologizing.
Do I believe Jericho really almost got arrested for doing this? Yes. They stopped the match and made him apologize in public or be arrested. Think about that. If he wouldn't have, things could have escalated. Jericho is not an idiot, so he chose the smart option.
Do I think Jericho should have been suspended? No, but I understand why they did it. This wasn't planned, people, but WWE had to do something in terms of PR. I don't know how long Jericho will be suspended (the rest of the SA tour, perhaps?), but I feel like this had to be done to respond to it and appease the Brazilian people (especailly the ones WWE works with to bring live events there). Gotta keep that good relationship. Does this mean that Jericho will just be written off quicker to allow him to go on his tour with Fozzy, as was planned? Perhaps, but I think that it's coincidence that it happened now, not a work.
Poop Master Flex
Mid-Card Championship Winner
So HBK picks his nose with the Canadian Flag, Fucks the Canadian flag. JBL Goosesteps in Germany and they don't get suspended but Jericho did?
I know JBL lost a job over it but not in the WWE, he just stayed champion for almost a year. Technically what JBL did was illegal and way worse than anything Jericho did but Jericho is the one suspended? Give me a break.
Jericho may have made a bad judgement call but all he did was crumple and kick a flag to get some heel heat. Vince once tried to get Slaughter to burn the American flag, I'm just saying there is some major loopholes going on here.
I don't think what Jericho did warrants a suspension, he apologized for it so move on.l
I know JBL lost a job over it but not in the WWE, he just stayed champion for almost a year. Technically what JBL did was illegal and way worse than anything Jericho did but Jericho is the one suspended? Give me a break.
Jericho may have made a bad judgement call but all he did was crumple and kick a flag to get some heel heat. Vince once tried to get Slaughter to burn the American flag, I'm just saying there is some major loopholes going on here.
I don't think what Jericho did warrants a suspension, he apologized for it so move on.l
ECW Sandman
Getting Noticed By Management
Natch there was a very high possibility he would have went to jail or prison for kicking the flag it's has something to do with there law in there country the police said to him he could go to jail or say sorry to the people of Brazil so he picked saying sorry to everyone there, WWE Did not approve nor did they know anything before hand so this is truly legit, there is no way they can script that and not get in to a shit ton of trouble.
Xemmy
of the Le'beau family
The two don't equate. Yes there are things more important than artistry. Freedom of Speech is one of them. I'm not wrong. We all know what wrestlers do as a whole. Drawing money. I'm not saying that it was a smart move on Jericho's part. I AM saying that what he did is no where near the same as public *********ion. Thank you for telling me my opinion doesn't matter in Brazil. I had no idea. No clue at all.
Anyways, heels piss people off so the face can come in and look good. Pissing people off is the first step into making the face look good. Was it unwise to do so in a country that is intolerant of flag desecration? Of course. He probably didn't realize what he was doing was against the law. Jericho didn't forget what he was doing.
I wouldn't be offended if someone were to desecrate the American flag in front of me. Especially if it was done fictitiously. It's not a private matter. It's merely a move to provoke emotion. It's not going to scar children in the audience.
That's the difference between displaying one's genitalia, and crumbling up a piece of colored cloth.
18dionlyone
Dark Match Jobber
I really Cant believe some of you. "Its a work, its a bullshit law, Brazilians are sensitive" People its a law there. If you break a law you get punished. in my opinion JEricho got off super lucky three times. Once because the police let him say sorry. Two because the WWE didnt fire him ( Yes Im sure if Orton or Punk or Cena did this they would get the same treatment no one is bigger than the law) and three that the Brazilians didnt kill him. like someone said earlier say anything short of "Pele is God" there and they want your head on a silver platter. People there comes a time when you gotta stop thinking everything is a storyline. this isnt about wrestling anymore this is about whats right and whats wrong. If he wouldve done that here would he have gotten in trouble? probably not but thats because were in the land of the free. Unless you live in Brazil, which judguing by most of these idiotic responses,then you cant say what should happen to him. this isnt about a storyline or writting someone off (seriously people why would WWE write someone off in a stupid way off camera and by breaking a law??) this is why people hate us unless its done our way then its the wrong way.get your heads out of your asses and think logically I dont care if Jericho can draw money or draw heat youre not above the law. YEs HBK did worse with the Canadian flag but that was in the late 90s and they dont have flag laws..well none that I can think of. stop comparing what HBK did to now of ever there were a time to use the phrase apples to oranges itd be now. at any rate this isnt storyline I saw the video of it and the half assed apology. I still wouldve had him arrested for it.seriously guys reading some of your responses makes me sick
MrMojoRisin
Championship Contender
I absolutely love the way that the WWE is bringing kayfabe back.
Let me ask the people who swear that this is real something:
Why wouldn't the Brazilian cops wait until Jericho came to the back to speak with him? Why storm out in the middle of a live event, where the situation could have potentially gotten ugly? And why put Jericho on the spot by asking him to apologize to the live crowd or be arrested? What if Jericho's defiant and doesn't apologize? What if Jericho thinks this is a rib and stays in heel character? Do they arrest him on the spot, take away the paying customers main event, and potentially have a riot on their hands?
Are these Brazilian cops entertainers in their off hours and wanted to get in on the action?
It's more logical for them to wait for Jericho to come backstage, advise him that what he did was illegal in Brazil and that he can either go back out and do his apology if that's what they wanted, or they will have to detain him right there. The live crowd is none the wiser, and there's no chance of an angry crowd getting out of hand. (I'm sure this is one of those laws that the common person isn't even aware of, and to any wrestling fan, since things like this have happened many times in the past, would have been looked at as just a part of the show).
Plus it is kind of convenient that Jericho's 'suspension' coincides nicely with his upcoming UK tour with Fozzy... which he had previously mentioned he would be taking time off for.
As for the WWE stating that this is real and that they're taking it seriously... what do you expect them to say? They're the ones that have been pushing these off camera, 'reality' angles for the past several months. Just wait till next year, when they're back in Brazil with no incident.
Gotta love kayfabe.
Let me ask the people who swear that this is real something:
Why wouldn't the Brazilian cops wait until Jericho came to the back to speak with him? Why storm out in the middle of a live event, where the situation could have potentially gotten ugly? And why put Jericho on the spot by asking him to apologize to the live crowd or be arrested? What if Jericho's defiant and doesn't apologize? What if Jericho thinks this is a rib and stays in heel character? Do they arrest him on the spot, take away the paying customers main event, and potentially have a riot on their hands?
Are these Brazilian cops entertainers in their off hours and wanted to get in on the action?
It's more logical for them to wait for Jericho to come backstage, advise him that what he did was illegal in Brazil and that he can either go back out and do his apology if that's what they wanted, or they will have to detain him right there. The live crowd is none the wiser, and there's no chance of an angry crowd getting out of hand. (I'm sure this is one of those laws that the common person isn't even aware of, and to any wrestling fan, since things like this have happened many times in the past, would have been looked at as just a part of the show).
Plus it is kind of convenient that Jericho's 'suspension' coincides nicely with his upcoming UK tour with Fozzy... which he had previously mentioned he would be taking time off for.
As for the WWE stating that this is real and that they're taking it seriously... what do you expect them to say? They're the ones that have been pushing these off camera, 'reality' angles for the past several months. Just wait till next year, when they're back in Brazil with no incident.
Gotta love kayfabe.
TheJujuMan
Dark Match Winner
CHRIST WEEPING ON A CROSS! One of the BEST works in recent times...
Y2J was going to leave WWE for a while. He WILL be back. Plaine and simple, he thought of a great way to leave without losing another PPV match. This gives WWE a "legit" reason to "suspend indefinitely" and for Chris to go tour and record new material for Fozzy.
I am just surprised at how many people actually BELIEVE that this was real???
BRILLIANT! Again, proving why he is the best in the business.
Y2J was going to leave WWE for a while. He WILL be back. Plaine and simple, he thought of a great way to leave without losing another PPV match. This gives WWE a "legit" reason to "suspend indefinitely" and for Chris to go tour and record new material for Fozzy.
I am just surprised at how many people actually BELIEVE that this was real???
BRILLIANT! Again, proving why he is the best in the business.
For Christ sake, you jingoistic fuck, it isn't a colored cloth, it's a fucking symbol. And frankly, if you aren't pissed if someone did that to the American flag, that says a fuckton more about you than it does me.
In your red rep to me, you try to make some ads backwards sense that racism never fully affected you, and it offends you. Great. You don't get to decide what offends and doesn't offend someone else, which is why the fucking rule is in place. They don't have the law for arbitrary reasons; they do it because it's an offensive gesture, and again, you don't get to decide what other people are offended by.
As I said in my own lil rep... Are you seriously that stupid?
Honkey_Kong
Championship Contender
The incident is probably a work. But let's assume it is legit.
Why can't WWE show some balls and back their talent? He went out there to generate heat to make THEIR product good and it didn't end up as roses. WWE should be protecting him right now and not suspending him.
If Brazil is that ********* over it, the WWE can run another couple shows in a developed nation where they can charge full price for tickets and concessions. They were doing those third worlders in The City of God a favour by bringing their entertainment to their country. Brazil needs WWE more than WWE needs them.
Why can't WWE show some balls and back their talent? He went out there to generate heat to make THEIR product good and it didn't end up as roses. WWE should be protecting him right now and not suspending him.
If Brazil is that ********* over it, the WWE can run another couple shows in a developed nation where they can charge full price for tickets and concessions. They were doing those third worlders in The City of God a favour by bringing their entertainment to their country. Brazil needs WWE more than WWE needs them.
Well, this isn't arrogant at all.
First of all, Brazil doesn't need the WWE. They have plenty of resources for money. Fuck, MMA is leaps and bounds bigger in Brazil than wrestling is; Brazil isn't as third world as you're stating, so go read up, and get fucking educated.
Second of all, why should the WWE have his back? He did something real stupid, that offended people that the WWE needs to do good business with. In our business, if you piss off the people that you're company is trying to do business with, you're likely going to get the punishment, because you fucked up.
Police Penis Sucking Goat Fucker
Pre-Show Stalwart
That is a stupid law Brazil has I don't get what he did that was wrong that just makes me like Jericho more now, by Jericho apologizing just makes him look weak. I thought it was bullshit of WWE to fire Finlay because a few National Guard members had to go crying to them too, or how the marines got their panties up their ass and went crying to get Orton out of a movie that no body is going to see because is what considered disrespectful to our country. What they are doing is simply generating heel heat by Jericho kicking the flag it should just make the fans want to see him get beat up even more. Heels have been doing things to piss off the crowd since the beginning of wrestling. We have seen worse in the WWE.
Martin Gabriel
Pre-Show Stalwart
Wow, pretty shocking. I'm not really upset with Jericho or anything. WWE's done worse, but you've got to consider other nation's standards of propriety. I kind of hate that it resulted in an outright suspension though. What exactly's the point if he's poised to leave soon anyway? Maybe they're just suspending him until his contract expires so they don't have to pay the remainder of it, earning back whatever fines, refunds or whatever they had to pay off due to the instant.
Honkey_Kong
Championship Contender
First of all, if Brazil has plenty of sources for money, they wouldn't be dirt poor. Look at the favelas there. It's poor country with corrupt officials that are bought by criminals.
Now why shouldn't they? He did that for THEIR show. Granted it wasn't probably the best move on his part, but in the heat of the moment stuff happens. The WWE should back their independent contractors, it's the right thing to do. He wouldn't have done that crap if the WWE didn't book him for that show that night.
The Dragon Saga
Whale in a Teardrop
It's not a work. If you think it is, you're an idiot. I have to go over this again.
If WWE went to a foreign country and they told Chris Jericho, "By the way, you're going to step on the Brazilian flag!" Don't you think WWE, a multi-million dollar company trading on the stock market, possibly if not probably more employee's than regularly posters on this forum would check to see if the act was allowed?
Plus, read the reports. A fan threw the flag to CM Punk; it wasn't even planned for Punk to hold up the flag. Jericho being a heel thought he'd react to Punk's playing up to the crowd by doing the opposite, sadly for him in Brazil they have laws protecting their flag because they're a sensitive country. It was a spur of the moment mistake, and sadly he didn't even draw much good heat from it.
The fact that he was close to being legitimately arrested in an abroad country and some of you are saying "It's probably a work, because everything newsworthy in wrestling is a work" shows how fucking ignorant and oblivious you are to the signs of a work and what's legitimate.
Whether WWE use the incident or not is going to be interesting. They can use this to playoff Jericho's absence, if he's suspended "indefinitely". It's a heel tactic gone awry from being in a foreign country. At least unlike say The Miz, he's taking the brunt of the heat, so now Dean Malenko won't be fired as Fit Finlay was and have to return to wrestling on the indy circuit.
If WWE went to a foreign country and they told Chris Jericho, "By the way, you're going to step on the Brazilian flag!" Don't you think WWE, a multi-million dollar company trading on the stock market, possibly if not probably more employee's than regularly posters on this forum would check to see if the act was allowed?
Plus, read the reports. A fan threw the flag to CM Punk; it wasn't even planned for Punk to hold up the flag. Jericho being a heel thought he'd react to Punk's playing up to the crowd by doing the opposite, sadly for him in Brazil they have laws protecting their flag because they're a sensitive country. It was a spur of the moment mistake, and sadly he didn't even draw much good heat from it.
The fact that he was close to being legitimately arrested in an abroad country and some of you are saying "It's probably a work, because everything newsworthy in wrestling is a work" shows how fucking ignorant and oblivious you are to the signs of a work and what's legitimate.
Whether WWE use the incident or not is going to be interesting. They can use this to playoff Jericho's absence, if he's suspended "indefinitely". It's a heel tactic gone awry from being in a foreign country. At least unlike say The Miz, he's taking the brunt of the heat, so now Dean Malenko won't be fired as Fit Finlay was and have to return to wrestling on the indy circuit.
JWGunslinger
Warrior Forever
I'm not even mad about the fact that desecrating their flag is punishable by incarceration, but the fact that he's been indefinitely suspended is beyond bullshit. Unless the suspension part is just a move to get him back to touring with Fozzy and then bringing him back when it's "over" then that's cool but if he legitimately got suspended because he broke a Brazilian law that I doubt anyone in any other country knew about then I will be livid.
You'd think the fact that Jericho obviously didnt know about it and the fact that he was playing a heel character and trying to get heat would be more of a, "that's illegal here, dont do it again or youre fucked". But no, Brazil wants to play the power card in a stupid circumstance like this, the world's going to shit folks.
You'd think the fact that Jericho obviously didnt know about it and the fact that he was playing a heel character and trying to get heat would be more of a, "that's illegal here, dont do it again or youre fucked". But no, Brazil wants to play the power card in a stupid circumstance like this, the world's going to shit folks.
Xemmy
of the Le'beau family
You're missing the point.
Racism was no where in my rep. Your judgement was poor in analyzing what I said. You said- "Anyway, this person really looks stupid questioning a law that doesn't even affect him to begin with, and that he clearly doesn't understand the ramifications of." And that's why I red repped you.
My red rep made this point, and I'll make it more clear for you. -
Slavery does not affect me. But it still occurs in parts of the world. But by your logic I don't have the right to have an opinion on it. You've said that it isn't my place to question the policies of other countries. By your logic no matter how terrible a country's policies are- my othepinion of m simply does not have any warrant. That was the point I was making.
And this is why you are the stupid one. Drone-ish even. Say what you want about flag desecration. But there IS a difference between jacking it in public, and crumpling a flag. It does not matter how disrespectful you find it to be. It doesn't matter how offensive ANYONE finds it to be. There's a difference. They have that law in place because they don't want anyone showing their country disrespect. I do not care. I should be able say what I want to say, and do what I want to do- so long as I am not hurting someone else. I think all people should have that right. It's called freedom. It's one of those things the first world countries like to pride themselves on. And it says a lot about you and Brazil to support such a law.
Being offensive should never warrant jail-time.
Lastly- I do not take pride in the country I live in. It's how I am. It does not make me an immoral person to not care about a flag being desecrated, as you otherwise hinted.
The United States of America has a flag code too, one that directly conflicts with our First Amendment rights, actually. Plenty of nations have a flag code, it's a simple matter of respect. I get that you're trying to be all "cool" about how you feel you should be able to spew bullshit off the handle, but there's a set of boundaries you have to stay within. I'm sure you could criticize Brazil, but desecrating their flag is a different matter. Chris Jericho disrespected the Brazilian flag -- it's as simple as that. Brazil has a law preventing what he was doing and while most people may have realized he was trying to draw heat, the police officers were doing their job and trying to uphold the law.
Jericho has the right to express himself, don't try to twist that. He could have gone out and pulled a Chael Sonnen, shitting on the country left and right, never once having to fear the repercussions of the law. He took it too far. Sure, Brazil may be sensitive, but their flag is the symbol of their country -- it deserves the utmost level of respect. To kick it/step on it isn't right, you cannot justify that. When Jericho apologized, all was well, but you can't go on and get away with that. It's just wrong. It's immoral.
Brazil isn't. I'm Brazilian and never saw this law mentioned, ever before. I never saw anyone genuinelly caring for the flag either.
I doubt any non-mark fan in the crowd actually felt offended at all.
Heck, it is not like there's anything to be proud about living in this country.
I'm saddened by those events. There are a lot of misconceptions and prejudice regarding Brazil. And acting like "we" did just futher fuel those. Brazil should have been a better host.
Yes. The best way to work a crowd is from a foreign country, where only a small portion of your audience will hear about it from the internet. *nods vigorously*
But the job of the heel is to offend people, correct? Wouldn't scarring children for life be offensive? In fact, I can't think of many things more offensive, besides physically molesting them. Maybe that's where the angle could be taken.
If you think that the job of the heel really is to be offensive, then you can see no difference between desecrating a flag and *********ing in front of children. (The fact that you do not understand symbology is irrelevant to this discussion.) I'll demonstrate.
I really do enjoy freedom of speech, but people who think it's an absolute are fools. What if I were to defend *********ion in public as protected speech? I could say that it's a way of protesting goods which are pleasurable and non-enriching. Your issue isn't my protest, or my point-of-view; your issue is that I'm showing my penis. To me, it's free speech. To you, it's sexually offensive. It's all in where you place the boundaries. In Brazil, desecrating the flag is one of the boundaries on free speech. You don't have to like it or understand it, or even be offended by it yourself; you have to understand that it's a law, and a trigger point for people.
I'm not a Catholic. I find all their little rituals kind of cute, but I don't wipe my ass with the Bible and wonder why people get pissed off.
Free speech has never been an absolutely guaranteed right. When you see a police officer nodding his head at a man demonstrating how many quarters he can shove up his asshole in a public park, we can talk about absolute freedom of speech.
Honkey_Kong
Championship Contender
In the early 90's I remember there was a supreme court case about some guy who was burning American flags. The court ruled it was his right to express himself despite it being against the norm.
Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that we have a flag code, which was my point. We handle ours differently than Brazil does, but it's still the right of a nation to govern what they deem can and cannot be done to their flag. There's nothing wrong with that. Xemmy's argument was based on free speech and all that, which is nice, but there's still a law in Brazil preventing the type of behavior Jericho exhibited. The Brazilian police had every right to step in and threaten Jericho with jail time -- he broke the law.
In the States, even with this Supreme Case, there would have been quite an outrage at Jericho disrespecting our flag. The police might not step in, but he'd still be forced to apologize.
Xemmy
of the Le'beau family
Yes. A code. Not a law.
Texas v. Johnson changed that.
I'm just trying to uphold a principle here. Not trying to be cool.
The flag is a symbol. Desecrating that symbol is generally considered rude, impolite, and offensive. It does not harm anyone. Nor is it something that is sexually explicit. (I'm not even dignifying Rayne with a response)
Regardless of reason, whether to incite hatred, or to express an opinion- someone should not have be punished by the government for an act that brings no harm to no one. If you feel flags should be respected, I understand that ethic. But it's not something that should be upheld with the threat of jail time. Given the position Jericho was in- it was not the smartest move. Neither for business, nor for his image. Breaking the law is never a smart idea. I don't think breaking the law is immoral however, and I make no difference between calling people ugly, and disrespecting a symbol. (Especially when it's merely fictitious.) I'm merely criticizing the law itself- and those that would try to compare what he did to jacking it in public.
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