Marketing: How TNA Could Become a Real Contender Again

[BigBombB]

This generalization *facepalm*. In my opinion, you are only appealing to small niche of plus sized athletes with this. Your average couch potatoes couldn't care less or actually want to watch the 'perfect body type' wrestle because TV has to be 'idealised'.

Let me play the same game. How do you KNOW that people wouldn't be drawn to a character like that? How does it only appeal to a 'small niche'? People are interested in what stands out, and in an industry of guys with great bodies, Samoa Joe stands out. He would be primarily marketed toward those who 'feel' their body shape holds them back somehow but he would still be a badass that beats the crap out of people which would appeal to a lot of others. It is more 'providing a proper focus' than it is about completely changing his character.

1) Tell girls they have a new role model.
2) ??????
3) MAAAAAAIIIIINNNNNSTTRRRRRREEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMM EXXXXXXPOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSUUURRRRRRRRRREEEEEE!

Trolololololllll?

You seem to have this whole 'role model' relationship backwards. People pick their own role models. You don't just get to announce, "Gail Kim is now a role model for young females, and celebrities should come on our show to support that!" What's your plan to sell, to market, Gail Kim as a 'girl power role model'?

You may want to take a few psychology courses but, for the sake of argument, let me explain it this way. Why is John Cena a role model but a guy like The Undertaker isn't? Is it because the Undertaker COULDN'T be a role model? No, he certainly has many years of hard work and respect that a typical role model would have, yet you wouldn't list him at the top of any 'role model' list. But John Cena would definitely make any list. Why? Because WWE has specifically tailored him to be that way.

To some extent people choose their own role models, sure. I was more a Raven guy than I was a Hulk Hogan guy but Hogan, on the whole, was one of the biggest role models in the entirety of America during his day. Is it because he was playing his real life self that made him a role model? No, he was specifically tailored to appeal to people of a certain type, to provide inspiration to them.

How did Trish Stratus, the type of woman that almost no other woman has anything in common with, become such a huge star and the epitome of 'what a woman should be'? Because of her inspirational personality? No, because WWE marketed her that way. She went from being a dog to being an inspiration, that isn't a transition the people at home made for her. They had no idea they wanted her to be inspiring until WWE told them as much.

If people repeatedly telling you "but what's your actual plan to market these, not your end goals" is starting to get to you, just pretend people are TNA Executives, and that you're asking them to commit their financial future and that of all their employees on your idea. Since that's the base level of acceptance you'd need to get any ear time with TNA, I don't think it's too unreasonable that you stop telling people you're just going to create role models, and perhaps explain how they're created, without using terms like "role models are a thing, so people will obviously choose the role models I create for them, because. And, also, these new role models will be bringing in hundreds of thousands of viewers who aren't currently watching, yet won't affect our current audience."

I think you mean "if people repeatedly not reading the parts where you explain some ideas for how to market these is getting to you", but it isn't. If I was actually talking to a TNA exec I would have a more heavily researched presentation with potential groups to work with, ways the person should carry themselves, qualities they should and shouldn't exude, ideas for 'branding', and all that other fun stuff. All I'm providing here are the basics of a plan I think would work.

 

[Rayne]

You may want to take a few psychology courses but, for the sake of argument, let me explain it this way. Why is John Cena a role model but a guy like The Undertaker isn't? Is it because the Undertaker COULDN'T be a role model? No, he certainly has many years of hard work and respect that a typical role model would have, yet you wouldn't list him at the top of any 'role model' list. But John Cena would definitely make any list. Why? Because WWE has specifically tailored him to be that way.

To some extent people choose their own role models, sure. I was more a Raven guy than I was a Hulk Hogan guy but Hogan, on the whole, was one of the biggest role models in the entirety of America during his day. Is it because he was playing his real life self that made him a role model? No, he was specifically tailored to appeal to people of a certain type, to provide inspiration to them.

How did Trish Stratus, the type of woman that almost no other woman has anything in common with, become such a huge star and the epitome of 'what a woman should be'? Because of her inspirational personality? No, because WWE marketed her that way. She went from being a dog to being an inspiration, that isn't a transition the people at home made for her. They had no idea they wanted her to be inspiring until WWE told them as much.

HOW?!?!?!

Yes, John Cena's don't just miraculously happen. They are a product built by the WWE. Now, how are you, BigBombB, going to create this product and convince people to accept half a dozen TNA performers as role models? How are you, how is your plan, going to get people to choose your role models? (Bearing in mind you aren't allowing yourself room for failure, or if you are, it doesn't seem like you have financial skin in the game to care about. Which the people who would eventually pass/fail your idea most certainly DO.)

We know role models exist. You claim that you're going to create them. Quit telling people that, and move on to how you create them.

I think you mean "if people repeatedly not reading the parts where you explain some ideas for how to market these is getting to you", but it isn't. If I was actually talking to a TNA exec I would have a more heavily researched presentation with potential groups to work with, ways the person should carry themselves, qualities they should and shouldn't exude, ideas for 'branding', and all that other fun stuff. All I'm providing here are the basics of a plan I think would work.

Any idiot can provide 'the basics of a plan'. That's the easiest part of the job. The next step is convincing people that your plan would work. I have a plan to construct a giant orbiting space station capable of destroying planets, but when people ask me about budgeting, contracting labor, the melting point of adamantium and mythril, I end up at a loss for words, and amazingly, no one wants to invest in my Death Star unless I can show them a plan for how this all comes together.

Simply telling people "this will work, promise!" hasn't gotten anyone to listen to me about my giant orbiting death machine, but they've all been willing to listen to a well-constructed plan. You seem to be eager to tell us about how powerful the lead laser will be once construction is finished, and a bit about how all the other orbiting battle stations will want to be in our fleet, but that's about all we can get out of you.

What you're doing is leaving all of the heavy lifting- the actual creation of the role models you're depending on to save TNA- and saying "it'll get done somehow, but wouldn't that be a nice looking Death Star when it's done?" Everyone in this thread is asking you, "but how do we get from this pile of steel and rubber to that?", and you respond, "but won't it be a nice looking Death Star when it's done?"

 

[BigBombB]

HOW?!?!?!

Yes, John Cena's don't just miraculously happen. They are a product built by the WWE. Now, how are you, BigBombB, going to create this product and convince people to accept half a dozen TNA performers as role models? How are you, how is your plan, going to get people to choose your role models? (Bearing in mind you aren't allowing yourself room for failure, or if you are, it doesn't seem like you have financial skin in the game to care about. Which the people who would eventually pass/fail your idea most certainly DO.)

So what exactly is it that you're looking for here, because you talk a lot about how I'm not 'providing the right details' but aren't listing any that I've supposedly left out. I've identified groups to be targeted, ways in which to do so, and reasons why it is logical to believe that there could be success there. What exactly have I not touched on that is so important?

You're all caught up in things being 'magic' and your apparent need to tell me I'm 'wrong' that you've completely ignored the numerous places where I have expanded upon the ideas to explain them better.

We know role models exist. You claim that you're going to create them. Quit telling people that, and move on to how you create them.
Any idiot can provide 'the basics of a plan'. That's the easiest part of the job. The next step is convincing people that your plan would work. I have a plan to construct a giant orbiting space station capable of destroying planets, but when people ask me about budgeting, contracting labor, the melting point of adamantium and mythril, I end up at a loss for words, and amazingly, no one wants to invest in my Death Star unless I can show them a plan for how this all comes together.

Simply telling people "this will work, promise!" hasn't gotten anyone to listen to me about my giant orbiting death machine, but they've all been willing to listen to a well-constructed plan. You seem to be eager to tell us about how powerful the lead laser will be once construction is finished, and a bit about how all the other orbiting battle stations will want to be in our fleet, but that's about all we can get out of you.

What you're doing is leaving all of the heavy lifting- the actual creation of the role models you're depending on to save TNA- and saying "it'll get done somehow, but wouldn't that be a nice looking Death Star when it's done?" Everyone in this thread is asking you, "but how do we get from this pile of steel and rubber to that?", and you respond, "but won't it be a nice looking Death Star when it's done?"

And here you're just jumping the shark. I have absolutely made it clear that I understand the difficulty of the process and some of the more subtle things that need to be addressed, but apparently all you see is "someone says Samoa Joe is a role model, he magically becomes a role model", which is in no way at all what has been implied at any point in time. I'm starting to think the problem is more that you don't know what constitutes a marketing idea worth pursuing and believe it to have a bunch of extra steps that you can't even name.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

So what exactly is it that you're looking for here, because you talk a lot about how I'm not 'providing the right details' but aren't listing any that I've supposedly left out. I've identified groups to be targeted, ways in which to do so, and reasons why it is logical to believe that there could be success there. What exactly have I not touched on that is so important?

You're all caught up in things being 'magic' and your apparent need to tell me I'm 'wrong' that you've completely ignored the numerous places where I have expanded upon the ideas to explain them better.



And here you're just jumping the shark. I have absolutely made it clear that I understand the difficulty of the process and some of the more subtle things that need to be addressed, but apparently all you see is "someone says Samoa Joe is a role model, he magically becomes a role model", which is in no way at all what has been implied at any point in time. I'm starting to think the problem is more that you don't know what constitutes a marketing idea worth pursuing and believe it to have a bunch of extra steps that you can't even name.

You keep saying you already did it, but I went over your mindless posts in this thread and I didn't see that oh so wonderful "Blueprint for ratingz and moneyz and rolemodelz" anywhere. Where is it? Link me to it.

Even if you DO understand how intricate a marketing pitch is, you somehow manage to shatter that by trying to shove your half-baked ideas in our faces. Give up, it won't work, it's unfinished, it lacks detail, it's just a theory about what could happen. A bad one, too. Usually theories are derived from something and have some meat in them. Your skinny little thing will die of anorexia any moment now.

Just ... no.

 

[Rayne]

So what exactly is it that you're looking for here, because you talk a lot about how I'm not 'providing the right details' but aren't listing any that I've supposedly left out. I've identified groups to be targeted, ways in which to do so, and reasons why it is logical to believe that there could be success there. What exactly have I not touched on that is so important?

What I'm looking here- I think other people gave up- is the step 2 of how you go from the "idea" of making your brand new role models for a new generation, to the actual having of brand new role models. You've stated time and again that they exist. You've stated that you have target groups, although they aren't necessarily realistic ones. (We're still hung up on why young girls are going to start tuning into a two-hour program featuring mostly men performing imitations of physical combat, but there's a lot missing here. Let's start from the ground floor.)

I think there's a fundamental disconnect here in that you don't actually understand that marketing is a process. At the very best here, you've got a rough sketch for an idea; you've identified target groups you'd like to reach. Beyond that, you've merely picked your favorite TNA performers, and said, "they should do this instead!" People have been trying, ever since the invention of radio and the mass media market that followed, to tell people "buy into this guy, he's a role model!" You are far from the first person to suggest creating role models as a way to increase sales and viewership; that's pretty much Mass Marketing 101.

So then. You have Gail Kim, as she is today, whom no one in professional wrestling would currently care if she disappeared off the planet. You have FUTURE Gail Kim, who is a role model to a brand new generation of young girls who have been convinced to watch a two-hour professional wrestling program. How do we get from point A, to point B? You've established that you want to build a Death Star. You've told us again and again how awesome the laser would be, if people weren't hung up on doubting your Death Star. Now, tell us about the construction of your Death Star.

You're all caught up in things being 'magic' and your apparent need to tell me I'm 'wrong' that you've completely ignored the numerous places where I have expanded upon the ideas to explain them better.

And here you're just jumping the shark. I have absolutely made it clear that I understand the difficulty of the process and some of the more subtle things that need to be addressed, but apparently all you see is "someone says Samoa Joe is a role model, he magically becomes a role model", which is in no way at all what has been implied at any point in time. I'm starting to think the problem is more that you don't know what constitutes a marketing idea worth pursuing and believe it to have a bunch of extra steps that you can't even name.

You understand that there's a lot of hard work; so you should understand when people completely doubt you when you provide the absolute easiest parts of a plan, and skip over the hard parts with a "but this'll happen, because." Your 'expansion of ideas' is just a reiteration of points you've already made; we've never gotten past the basic obstacle of you telling us the path from plan A to plan B. "Gail Kim is married to someone famous" doesn't count; the baseline for acceptance of your idea is that you'd be asking a few hundred people to commit their financial future and well being to its success, so I don't think asking for an actual plan on how to create role models is too much. We know you want to create role models; now, tell us how we get from 2014 Gail Kim, to 2016 Gail Kim.

As far as not knowing what marketing means, I run my own sports business with events management as a significant wing. I get about one person a week who comes to me with what they think is this super awesome idea that will totally change everything, if I would just agree to commit myself to a huge risk on the basis of "but I'm sure it will work!" It is very easy to tell people how completely awesome your idea is when you have absolutely nothing to lose on it.

Marketing is the process of selling an idea to people. On the very ground floor of your marketing attempt, trying to sell your ideas to the posters on this board, you're down to "well, you just must not understand marketing then". You're going to need a better marketing plan.

 

[Alastor]

Let me play the same game. How do you KNOW that people wouldn't be drawn to a character like that? How does it only appeal to a 'small niche'? People are interested in what stands out, and in an industry of guys with great bodies, Samoa Joe stands out. He would be primarily marketed toward those who 'feel' their body shape holds them back somehow but he would still be a badass that beats the crap out of people which would appeal to a lot of others. It is more 'providing a proper focus' than it is about completely changing his character.

Because research in the past shows plus size advertising is only effective in certain areas? Maybe I am too out of the loop now since that was 3-4 years ago. The few industries that it does work is in weightloss products like gyms or pills or what not. I highly doubt wrestling fans watching Samoa Joe wrestle will be inspired to lose weight or get fitter. Or change anything. How many people out there are those that feel their body shape holds them back in their line of work? Seriously? If that isn't a niche I don't know what is. Looks like you agreed with me it is appealing to a niche already.

 

[Rayne]

I can clarify the gap in your thought process, here. You're saying you have this guy, called The Prototype, but you think he has real potential, and you're going to bill him under his given name, and he'll be a role model to children. What you've skipped over is the entire middle part; his introduction to fans, his position in 'build' roles (him getting the best lines in the cast for his "Doctor of Thuganomics" era was no accident- that was him, being marketed to people.) What you're doing is saying Gail Kim will be a role model to girls, because girls need role models. What will Gail Kim do to convince girls that not only is she a figure worth emulating, but that they should watch two hours of professional wrestling a week for? What will Samoa Joe actually DO to convince fat kids to tune in and watch two hours of professional wrestling a week? How will these new characters of yours avoid alienating your current audience, which would defeat the entire purpose?

Don't tell us "well how do you know it wouldn't work?" That's your job, to convince people it will work. That is exactly what marketing is. Marketing is selling an idea, and all people here are doing is pointing out that you aren't selling them an idea, you're telling them you have an idea to sell. Why do people want to buy it? People are looking for actual reasons, not how they are big meanies who just want to crap on your dreams. "Working with YouTube celebrities no one has heard of, but someday might?" "Her husband is a famous chef, back two years ago when America was going through the chef craze, so surely celebrities will show up to cross-promote with our product when we have nothing to offer?" Those aren't ideas, those are wishes, and TNA has tried and completely failed at the celebrity game, many times before.

So, please stop with the 'people are against my idea for no good reason' nonsense; that never sold a dime. You're playing at marketing- SELL. Convince people here that your idea can't miss. Give us an actual process that we can look over and follow a coherent logical process to get from A to B, not a list of ideas and wishes and no plan of action.

 

[BigBombB]

Because research in the past shows plus size advertising is only effective in certain areas? Maybe I am too out of the loop now since that was 3-4 years ago. The few industries that it does work is in weightloss products like gyms or pills or what not. I highly doubt wrestling fans watching Samoa Joe wrestle will be inspired to lose weight or get fitter. Or change anything. How many people out there are those that feel their body shape holds them back in their line of work? Seriously? If that isn't a niche I don't know what is. Looks like you agreed with me it is appealing to a niche already.

OMG people, it has nothing to do with weight loss, it has to do with being comfortable in your own body even if it is a little heavy. That appeals to a LOT of people who feel that way about themselves, I'm sure a little market research on that would prove that pretty easily. And it is a niche but it is a pretty significant niche.

I can clarify the gap in your thought process, here. You're saying you have this guy, called The Prototype, but you think he has real potential, and you're going to bill him under his given name, and he'll be a role model to children. What you've skipped over is the entire middle part; his introduction to fans, his position in 'build' roles (him getting the best lines in the cast for his "Doctor of Thuganomics" era was no accident- that was him, being marketed to people.) What you're doing is saying Gail Kim will be a role model to girls, because girls need role models. What will Gail Kim do to convince girls that not only is she a figure worth emulating, but that they should watch two hours of professional wrestling a week for? What will Samoa Joe actually DO to convince fat kids to tune in and watch two hours of professional wrestling a week? How will these new characters of yours avoid alienating your current audience, which would defeat the entire purpose?

Don't tell us "well how do you know it wouldn't work?" That's your job, to convince people it will work. That is exactly what marketing is. Marketing is selling an idea, and all people here are doing is pointing out that you aren't selling them an idea, you're telling them you have an idea to sell. Why do people want to buy it? People are looking for actual reasons, not how they are big meanies who just want to crap on your dreams. "Working with YouTube celebrities no one has heard of, but someday might?" "Her husband is a famous chef, back two years ago when America was going through the chef craze, so surely celebrities will show up to cross-promote with our product when we have nothing to offer?" Those aren't ideas, those are wishes, and TNA has tried and completely failed at the celebrity game, many times before.

So, please stop with the 'people are against my idea for no good reason' nonsense; that never sold a dime. You're playing at marketing- SELL. Convince people here that your idea can't miss. Give us an actual process that we can look over and follow a coherent logical process to get from A to B, not a list of ideas and wishes and no plan of action.

Ok, now that I know what you're looking for, challenge accepted.

Samoa Joe

Step One: Make Joe the #1 contender to Bobby Lashley's title.

Step Two: A new YouTube channel is started specifically for Joe, one where he will upload occasional vlogs and whatnot to make it feel more 'personal', but mainly it will be a place to house a couple inspiring videos. The first video would be Joe talking about his dreams, how he had a dream to become a professional wrestler, a dream that seemed more and more impossible as he looked in the mirror each day and began to realize his body wasn't the right 'type'; but that just made him want it more. He worked harder, he learned different styles, until he became the most badass man ever to step into a wrestling ring. "Bobby Lashley represents everything people think a pro wrestler should be...and me, I'm going to destroy him."

Future videos could touch on how he was turned away from the top promotion in the world because he 'didn't fit their look' but kept at it to find his own path to success. One might show him working out, him talking about the difficulties he may have compared to the 'average size', and some tips for how 'big guys' can still be strong and healthy.

The hope is to get something that can appeal to everyone, even if they aren't necessarily the type that would normally tune into wrestling. People sharing Joe's story on Facebook and getting it spread virally is the ultimate goal. After that, the task is to get as many new eyes watching as possible and to turn a percentage of those temporary watchers into people who tune in weekly. The Joe angle would run for a minimum of six months, starting with the build to his defeat of Bobby Lashley (which would last two months), then focusing on his championship run where he becomes a proud and dominant champion.

Step Three: Joe's look doesn't need to change drastically, it just needs to be more refined. His in-ring personality should be one of a 'killer' while his outside the ring personality should be focused but relaxed. The way people react to him, however, should change drastically. People with good physiques should be hurling insults at him backstage ('you think you deserve a championship fatty?') to mocking him with flexing in the ring. Joe just takes it at first, growing to a slow boil, until he finally begins exacting revenge on everyone who mocked him. People can live out their fantasies through Joe as Joe kicks the crap out of the people who berate him.

Step Four: Sell merchandise, create new foes to try to derail Joe, ride the wind as far as it will go.

Gail Kim

Step One: Gail Kim is already Knockout's champion, she is already the most dominant in-ring performer in the company, so how can anyone get under her skin? Angelina Love begins to attack how Gail looks, saying 'Someone that looks as trashy as you has no business being a champion. That belt deserves beauty, that belt deserves someone like...me!" Gail then comes to the ring to rile up the crowd, saying 'OK boys, what do you think? Do you think I'm beautiful?" which would naturally get a good pop. This would set the stage.

Step Two: Gail also gets her own YouTube channel, in a very similar style to Joe's, perhaps answering some fan questions (especially if they are asked by girls), but primarily to release a few inspiring videos. The first would be her talking about the treatment of women in wrestling and how the top company in the industry only cares about sex appeal. Gail says that she is an athlete, not just a pretty face, and that women can do anything a man can do...maybe even better!

In future videos, Gail can share some personal stories about how she has experienced the world from a woman's perspective and how she intends to help be a part of the 'wave of progress' for the value of women in society. Gail can also put out a video where she is hanging out with friends, wearing typical 'going out' attire, and show the way women are treated...then at the end of the same video, Gail can talk about how she can appreciate that men enjoy 'looking' at her, but that she wants more than that. She wants to be respected as a performer, as an athlete, as a WOMAN, not just a piece of eye candy.

The unique place that Gail has in the world outside of wrestling, given her famous husband, would likely give her some contacts to other famous women in the world. But even if that isn't the case, she is friends with other successful women's wrestlers and starting a movement within that community could eventually spread outside of it. I call it the "Women As Athletes" movement, where I would expect former stars like Molly Holly, Victoria, and hey, maybe even Trish Stratus herself would push for 'girl power' and to inspire women of all types to strive to be more than just a 'body'.

Step Three: Gail already embodies this sort of attitude, but the storylines she is involved in could tell a lot of stories women can relate to. For example, Gail defeats Angelina yet again and Angelina leaves for a short time after a huge hissyfit. Madison Rayne takes her place as the 'pretty girl' who can taunt that 'You may matter in those few minute you're inside the ring, but outside the ring people only care about me! No one gives a damn about a girl shaped like a boy, they want a real woman, and that is exactly what I am." Then Gail has to begin to take the fight 'outside the ring', to show there is more to life than being a set of tits and an ass. This would then lead to Angelina's return, where all three ladies are in the ring, and Angelina puts Madison in her place with a comment like "Madison, not only are you not the prettiest woman in this ring, I'm not even sure you're the SECOND prettiest woman in this ring". Madison would cast her eyes down and Gail would stand up for her, even though Madison had said terrible things to her before. The rest of the angle would play out as Gail talking to Madison, asking her how it feels to be treated like you're ugly, and leading up to some revenge against Angelina. Ideally, Madison would attack Angelina and give her a 'make over', only for Gail to come out to help Angelina. "While it is a bit funny to see her this way, bullying is never ok, even if it is to a bully."

Important messages, storylines people can relate to even if they have never watched wrestling before, and an attempt at creating some positive social change. I think that is miles better than the aimless wandering they are currently doing.

 

[Rayne]

You've written storylines again. You're trying, but you honestly don't seem to understand the difference between marketing and storytelling.

What you are proposing is that you use professional wrestlers as role models to draw people to a television program featuring professional wrestling. You've written a story about how they triumph over adversity (the YouTube thing has been tried repeatedly and largely abandoned- the audience share vs. production effort vs. profit numbers don't make sense). This is a story that could be slotted into any television program on any network, except maybe local news. NOW: How do you use these role models to convince your audience to watch two hours of professional wrestling a week?

A major flaw already in your plan (it's been there the whole time, but we've been trying to explain this marketing thing) is that you're using singular characters to provide to various niche audiences, while not providing much else for those niche audiences to watch in the meantime. Why does a young girl who (skipping to point B) idolizes Gail Kim want to sit around and watch Samoa Joe's trials against adversity? Why does a fat kid want to listen about the hard work women have to put in to make it in professional wrestling? How are you providing a program that gets these people to sit down and watch two hours worth of advertising, bearing in mind you're targeting an audience previously unexposed to professional wrestling?

I mean, c'mon, re-read your "Step 3" for Gail Kim and tell me that doesn't read like bad fan fiction.
You understand that role models (spokespeople) are a powerful force in marketing, and that it is desirable to have them. You've at least fleshed out your ideas for building a role model with a basic story about how you'd create a role model, but there's still not a word about how you'd use these models to expose the TNA brand, and professional wrestling in general, to an audience of people who haven't been watching professional wrestling.

Pretend you're a viewer with no interest in professional wrestling. What you've heard about professional wrestling is that it's a fake sport in which muscular men grind up against each other in tights. What is it about Gail Kim, Samoa Joe, or whoever else you want to create a role model out of that gets you watching professional wrestling?

 

[Rayne]

You also seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of celebrity, and seeing as celebrities seem to be a major part of your plan, this should probably be addressed.

People won't want to work for TNA on the basis of knowing a famous chef who's wife works with them. Imagine if every time you had something to offer, your friends' girlfriends all gave you a call and asked if you could make an appearance. While these relationships can open doors; you have to know the people first in order to make a deal with them- those personal relationships aren't exploited for professional gain. That's how you lose your friends and business contacts, by talking them into an idea for personal reasons through which they lose professionally.

So, you either cross-promote, or you buy their services with an appearance fee. Here's the problem; TNA has absolutely nothing to offer in terms of cross-promotion right now, and their budget cutting mission precludes spending money on non-essential expenses (lights, power, lawyers, etc- not "essential hot new ideas".) If you haven't been paying close attention lately, TNA hasn't brought in many celebrities recently. That's your reason.

Think of celebrity like high school dating. You improve your own celebrity by working with people who have either the same or more celebrity than you, and if the difference in celebrity level is substantial, you usually end up paying a very high price for it. TNA right now is the heavyset girl in coke bottle glasses with ass-acne that shows itself every time she bends over. Who increases their celebrity by working with her?

 

[BigBombB]

You've written storylines again How do you retain any audience that tunes in to see this person if the storyline doesn't have to do with the marketing? You don't, so it is a crucial element. You're trying, but you honestly don't seem to understand the difference between marketing and storytelling. And again, you don't seem to understand marketing if you don't know how what I just laid out could bring a lot of eyes to the product, and star power to the two I specifically listed.

What you are proposing is that you use professional wrestlers as role models to draw people to a television program featuring professional wrestling. Correct You've written a story about how they triumph over adversity (the YouTube thing has been tried repeatedly and largely abandoned- the audience share vs. production effort vs. profit numbers don't make sense this is easily the most ridiculous thing you've said, if you already have a camera and the person that will be in the video, you're already writing television, how much extra money does it cost to do this? ZERO (maybe a few bucks to the person who edits the video but that is negligible), and they have tried the YouTube thing before but it was completely without focus and everything was tailored to the wrestling fan...viral marketing is an artform, no different than 'just because I can paint a picture doesn't mean it isn't going to suck', and if you don't do it right then nobody cares...."Why can you do it right BBB?" I also have a background in marketing and keep up to date with every new marketing book I can get my hands on, this is why when you tell me what I'm talking about "has nothing to do with marketing", I know you're totally wrong). This is a story that could be slotted into any television program on any network, except maybe local news. NOW: How do you use these role models to convince your audience to watch two hours of professional wrestling a week? that is the age old question, one even WWE has trouble answering

A major flaw already in your plan (it's been there the whole time, but we've been trying to explain this marketing thing) is that you're using singular characters to provide to various niche audiences Vince McMahon stated long ago that the exciting thing about wrestling is that it 'provides something for everyone', you are NEVER going to get a product where every segments appeals to everyone, you're always risking somebody tuning out, but you can lead them along with the old "Joe is in action in the main event!" after he pops up at the start of the show, giving the audience some incentive to sit through the show (which is admittedly harder now thanks to the internet and literal thousands of television stations) while not providing much else for those niche audiences to watch in the meantime. Why does a young girl who (skipping to point B) idolizes Gail Kim want to sit around and watch Samoa Joe's trials against adversity? You think a girl isn't going to have been bullied about their weight or the way they look? Is this only a guy issues? I think a young girl would be just as intrigued as a guy Why does a fat kid want to listen about the hard work women have to put in to make it in professional wrestling? Here is the special secret to this, even though the angle is about 'girl power', the girls are still hot chicks wearing skimpy outfits, I think your average teenage male is going to be an easy sell on anything regarding that How are you providing a program that gets these people to sit down and watch two hours worth of advertising, bearing in mind you're targeting an audience previously unexposed to professional wrestling? Variety, running angles based on popular trends in the media today, have a few completely over the top characters that they feel they have to see with their own eyes, and trying to put on the highest quality product possible with the fans in mind...the formula for success in wrestling has never changed, they way that it is done has changed, and that is the point that needs to be striven for

I mean, c'mon, re-read your "Step 3" for Gail Kim and tell me that doesn't read like bad fan fiction. Any angle about girls is fan fiction, got it
You understand that role models (spokespeople) are a powerful force in marketing, and that it is desirable to have them. You've at least fleshed out your ideas for building a role model with a basic story about how you'd create a role model, but there's still not a word about how you'd use these models to expose the TNA brand, and professional wrestling in general, to an audience of people who haven't been watching professional wrestling. In viral marketing there is a careful balance that needs to be reached, I wouldn't want it to come off too obviously that this is a pitch to get people to watch wrestling, but it obviously needs to be mentioned (for example, in the Joe video, he could say something like "the top promotion wouldn't even look at me because of my size, and that is when I heard about this little start-up promotion that wanted to change the face of wrestling, it was a place to make a living, a place to make a name for myself, and a place that I was happy to call home...Total Nonstop Action Wrestling." During one of the videos (not the first), have a few spliced in bits where Joe is kicking ass...the idea is to get people interested in Samoa Joe the person first and then get them interested in Samoa Joe the wrestler. You don't have to explain that it is 'difficult', obviously it is, and the only way to get it to work isn't through writing something beforehand, it is getting the idea out there, seeing how people take to it, and tweaking it as necessary, no amount of prep work can change what the market will react to, I just think this is a perfect marriage of ideas that the market would respond to, it is just a matter of how many, which is all made up conjecture for any idea until the eyes start viewing

Pretend you're a viewer with no interest in professional wrestling. What you've heard about professional wrestling is that it's a fake sport in which muscular men grind up against each other in tights. What is it about Gail Kim, Samoa Joe, or whoever else you want to create a role model out of that gets you watching professional wrestling? a lot of people watched WWE at it's peak for Stone Cold, they loved that 'no good son of a bitch that was giving his boss hell', the fact that it was wrestling was secondary, people were interested in seeing Stone Cold 'whoop some ass', the guy made it cool, the rest of the product just needed to support that good thing they had going, that would be the strategy

You also seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of celebrity, and seeing as celebrities seem to be a major part of your plan, this should probably be addressed.

People won't want to work for TNA on the basis of knowing a famous chef who's wife works with them. This is you creating 'fan fiction' out of my writing. They don't hire people based on their famous past or connections, but if they happen to already have them? Use that for all its worth, it would be silly not to. Imagine if every time you had something to offer, your friends' girlfriends all gave you a call and asked if you could make an appearance. While these relationships can open doors; you have to know the people first in order to make a deal with them- those personal relationships aren't exploited for professional gain. That's how you lose your friends and business contacts, by talking them into an idea for personal reasons through which they lose professionally. This is why it is connected to a legitimate social movement...the hard sell is more to get Gail Kim to work that hard than it is to get other people to buy into it...if you are passionate enough about an idea that others are already prone to be passionate about, then it is just a matter of waiting until it catches fire...no, there is no telling exactly when it would happen, but modern marketing techniques allow it to happen a lot faster than it ever used to

So, you either cross-promote, or you buy their services with an appearance fee. Here's the problem; TNA has absolutely nothing to offer in terms of cross-promotion right now, and their budget cutting mission precludes spending money on non-essential expenses (lights, power, lawyers, etc- not "essential hot new ideas".) If you haven't been paying close attention lately, TNA hasn't brought in many celebrities recently. That's your reason.

Think of celebrity like high school dating. You improve your own celebrity by working with people who have either the same or more celebrity than you, and if the difference in celebrity level is substantial, you usually end up paying a very high price for it. TNA right now is the heavyset girl in coke bottle glasses with ass-acne that shows itself every time she bends over. Who increases their celebrity by working with her? This, again, is why I suggested targeting YouTube celebrities. Who in the world is going to put a guy like PewDiePie on television? But if you get him on the show, put him in a skit that you let him write (with your approval) and work in a guy like Eric Young in the aforementioned heel angle, Young gets the rub of working a fun angle with a popular YouTuber (the angle would obviously have to get over whatever feud Young is in at the time but that would be where TNA would have final say over what is in the final skit) and PewDiePie gets to be on national television...maybe PewDiePie is a bit of a stretch, but there are bound to be YouTubers with a lot of viewers that would bite for something like that and cost very little, especially if the YouTuber is already a bit of a wrestling fan to begin with, it would have a be a long vetting process but I think it is totally doable

I made comments in the quotes!

 

[HereComesThePain87]

THIS JUST IN... Impact Wrestling has just signed Ray Rice!! Lol

 

[Alastor]

OMG people, it has nothing to do with weight loss, it has to do with being comfortable in your own body even if it is a little heavy. That appeals to a LOT of people who feel that way about themselves, I'm sure a little market research on that would prove that pretty easily. And it is a niche but it is a pretty significant niche.

Past market research has shown it doesn't move the needle either way. And even when it does, having someone plus size in advertising doesn't make the already skinny people feel better. Makes the fatter people feels worse. Only the niche you are appealing to feels better. Hence why there is no extra appeal to have such plus sized advertising. You gain very little and can be potentially losing appeal to those who prefer the ideal aesthetics in things they use or watch.

So we went from you generalizing that people want Samoa Joe types to now accepting the idea has a limited appeal. You want to talk about TNA storylines and not marketing. If we can get pass that I am sure the discussion can be less hostile.

This, again, is why I suggested targeting YouTube celebrities. Who in the world is going to put a guy like PewDiePie on television? But if you get him on the show, put him in a skit that you let him write (with your approval) and work in a guy like Eric Young in the aforementioned heel angle, Young gets the rub of working a fun angle with a popular YouTuber (the angle would obviously have to get over whatever feud Young is in at the time but that would be where TNA would have final say over what is in the final skit) and PewDiePie gets to be on national television...maybe PewDiePie is a bit of a stretch, but there are bound to be YouTubers with a lot of viewers that would bite for something like that and cost very little, especially if the YouTuber is already a bit of a wrestling fan to begin with, it would have a be a long vetting process but I think it is totally doable

Why are you assuming just because they are YouTubers there would be any difference in what Rayne said? In your mind they would sell their brand cheaper just because you think 'it is only Youtube'? Why in the world would a guy like PewDiePie want to appear on television for cheap when he makes 4mil+ a year making videos? WWE did the celebrity shitfest a few years back and it was one of the worst era of RAW for me. You have to cater to their brand as well as making a good show.

 

[BigBombB]

Past market research has shown it doesn't move the needle either way. And even when it does, having someone plus size in advertising doesn't make the already skinny people feel better. Makes the fatter people feels worse. Only the niche you are appealing to feels better. Hence why there is no extra appeal to have such plus sized advertising. You gain very little and can be potentially losing appeal to those who prefer the ideal aesthetics in things they use or watch.

So we went from you generalizing that people want Samoa Joe types to now accepting the idea has a limited appeal. You want to talk about TNA storylines and not marketing. If we can get pass that I am sure the discussion can be less hostile.

So, you can make huge assumptions and definitive statements with no proof? Everything you just said was an assumption, a personal opinion, and really just defeatist ideology. "No sense trying something because it has failed in the past", and under what circumstances has marketing like this failed? How hard did the company work to make it big? How competent were they? You talk about me making huge assumptions when you're attributing that an entire market of people 'would never be interested' with absolutely no basis.

And you realize a niche market doesn't have to be small right? Apple appeals to a niche market, that niche market happens to be huge, this is just a ridiculous argument. Then you toss in 'you're only talking about storylines', which leads me to believe people are commenting without reading.

Why are you assuming just because they are YouTubers there would be any difference in what Rayne said? In your mind they would sell their brand cheaper just because you think 'it is only Youtube'? Why in the world would a guy like PewDiePie want to appear on television for cheap when he makes 4mil+ a year making videos? WWE did the celebrity shitfest a few years back and it was one of the worst era of RAW for me. You have to cater to their brand as well as making a good show.

WWE shoved celebrities down our throats, doing a fun angle with a relevant personality on the internet that only takes up a short time on the show is entirely different. You can toss said segment up on YouTube and get a ton of views thanks to that YouTubers fanbase. This may seem 'crazy' but it is well within the 'so crazy it might work' realm.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

New idea Game Rage. King of Queens was on TV for years. The Simpsons is a monstrous success. How about we abandon wrestling but take your idea and make Joe a blue collar guy with Gail Kim as his "how did he get her?" wife.

This is half hour sitcom gold. Eric Young will play the wacky neighbor. It will be huge since he is already a D-List celebrity. They can cross promote with the link T-Mobile girl.

I just saved TNA.

 

[Alastor]

So, you can make huge assumptions and definitive statements with no proof? Everything you just said was an assumption, a personal opinion, and really just defeatist ideology. "No sense trying something because it has failed in the past", and under what circumstances has marketing like this failed? How hard did the company work to make it big? How competent were they? You talk about me making huge assumptions when you're attributing that an entire market of people 'would never be interested' with absolutely no basis.

And that is different from what you are doing in how? I stated having read past market research as showing plus sized models isn't effective. I can't be bothered to google for you that. I never said entire markets. Stop putting words in other people's mouth.

And you realize a niche market doesn't have to be small right? Apple appeals to a niche market, that niche market happens to be huge, this is just a ridiculous argument. Then you toss in 'you're only talking about storylines', which leads me to believe people are commenting without reading.

Apple niche? When they dominated the digital music, MP3s (still remember those?) and smartphones markets?

WWE shoved celebrities down our throats, doing a fun angle with a relevant personality on the internet that only takes up a short time on the show is entirely different. You can toss said segment up on YouTube and get a ton of views thanks to that YouTubers fanbase. This may seem 'crazy' but it is well within the 'so crazy it might work' realm.

What makes you think it would be any different in TNA?

I'm done with this. Nothing gets to you unless someone pander and agrees with you.

 

[BigBombB]

And that is different from what you are doing in how? I stated having read past market research as showing plus sized models isn't effective. I can't be bothered to google for you that. I never said entire markets. Stop putting words in other people's mouth.

"Plus sized models didn't work" is your relation to how it wouldn't work in the storyline driven world of wrestling? Ooookay.

Apple niche? When they dominated the digital music, MP3s (still remember those?) and smartphones markets?

And did they start by trying to appeal to everybody? No, they targeted a niche that then grew to dominate the industry. They grew because Steve Jobs was a brilliant man who understood the subtle ways to get his product a huge viewing audience. And he started with a niche market of people who bought into what he was doing then turned that niche into a widely encompassing business. It seemed impossible to do before he did it, no different than how it seems impossible to turn around a wrestling company until someone does it.

What makes you think it would be any different in TNA?

See above.

I'm done with this. Nothing gets to you unless someone pander and agrees with you.

You come in the topic, dismiss most of what I've said, claim to be an expert yourself while making a comparison of the modeling industry to the wrestling industry, then claim my finding that ridiculous isn't valid. No one in this topic has pandered to me and I answer perfectly respectfully to statements that aren't veiled ad hominem attacks. Which is mostly what you offered so this isn't a huge loss.

 

[Rayne]

Stop.

Every time you say, "well you just must not understand marketing if you don't agree with me", "but how do you know it wouldn't work", "and hopefully it goes viral", what you're doing is stopping your thought process and demanding people agree with you. You aren't selling people on why your idea can't miss; you're arguing with people when they tell you they aren't sold on your ideas.

This is the point at which you need to ask yourself, "am I trying to be a marketer, or am I looking for group approval?" If you are trying to market (either, actually), your approach is not working and you need to reevaluate it.

For what it's worth, filming YouTube vignettes requires paying the actor for the time above their downside guarantee, the camera and lighting staff, studio rental time, plus incidentals for those. (Craft services, etc) I'm working on the assumption that we are creating a professional video designed to look like it was shot casually, and not amateur videos taken on an iPhone that look like the prelude to a snuff film in a hotel room. (Because TNA tried exactly that four years ago, and it bombed so hard they dropped the idea without a word.) Like this whole thread, you have the very, very, very, very, very rough sketch for an idea, but it's plainly obvious that you haven't done any of the hard thinking that turns those thoughts into things. If you have, it's plainly obvious that you've failed to convince your audience of that- and this is the nicest audience you'll get without calling your mother. People here don't even have their own money in the game;if you can't convince one person here, how do you expect to convince people to spend their own money on your idea? Again, are you MARKETING, or looking for public approval? Save us all the effort if it's the latter, we'll pat you on the head and send you on your way. If you're trying to market though, quit insisting your audience agree with you, and CONVINCE them.

 

[Rayne]

Starting point: I am entirety unconvinced that you can successfully use spokespeople to market professional wrestling to young girls, an advertising segment which has almost no overlap with wrestling's traditional audience, men 18-30. You are claiming that you can not only draw young girls to a product that historically they have had no interest in, but that you can do it in statistically significant numbers, WHILE not alienating your present audience- PLUS, accomplishing all of this in a time frame that has those new viewers in place before TNA loses their television spot for lack of ratings.

This is why people are skeptical. Your job is to convince people your idea of some crazy enough to work; right now, people just think it's crazy.

 

[BigBombB]

I'm not looking for anything in particular here, but saying this is a 'friendly environment' for this sort of thing has untrue so far. For example, when you say something like 'you're just looking for approval' it is an attempt at discrediting what I'm talking about without making any effort to help figure out a way to make it work. I would expect an actual company would be far more receptive to ideas than a message board, because instead of a bunch of naysayers, it would be a bunch of people who would bounce the idea around themselves to figure out ways that it could work.

So far this topic has been me trying to defend my point of view against people who have no interest in finding a way that it could work, just people that are of the mindset that 'any idea will fail because TNA is basically dead'. This is a mindset you, Rayne, have expressed in various ways and others have put more bluntly. I was hoping when I initially started the topic to perhaps get some debate on what might work and what might not, I laid out a few ideas I thought would make for a good landscape and figured people would either try to discredit the foundation of the ideas or offer some of their own.

Instead I got a lot of 'well, that isn't marketing!' which is blatantly untrue and hurts the credibility of the people saying it. It isn't the entire process, no, but they are ideas that I feel could be successfully marketed and I've gone into further detail about why I believe that throughout the topic. If rather than simply trying to 'poke holes', people were putting that effort into trying to find ways that my ideas might work (or as mentioned earlier, coming up with their own ideas) then this could be a fun little thread.

Thinking 'outside the box', coming up with new directions that TNA either hasn't considered or could have utilized in a better fashion, maximizing the value of the talent on their roster, etc...this is all marketing related stuff that I hoped would make for a fun topic. And it has to some extent, I certainly enjoy the opportunity to think but it would definitely be more interesting (perhaps even productive) if everyone were thinking 'together' rather than trying to think of every reason something might not work.

How about this time, instead of me answering those questions, you come up with some stuff that might tackle those problems? Hey, you might even like it. I'm not saying we're going to save TNA in a topic on WrestleZone but it is certainly more upbeat to figure out a scenario that might rather than the usual doom and gloom.

 

[Rayne]

I didn't say that this was a friendly audience; just the friendliest one you'll ever get. If you can't handle people criticizing your ideas when people disagree with them, marketing is not the field for you. I don't say that to try and be insulting, I say that because you seem utterly unprepared to handle criticism, which is part and parcel to the whole marketing thing. People "picking holes in my ideas" is something a marketer EXPECTS, and is prepared to account for with a convincing counterargument, not "well, YOU aren't generating lists! ".

You did get debate on what people thought about your ideas; it was just one-sided and not what you anticipated.

How about this time, instead of complaining that people aren't supporting your idea, you try and convince people to support your idea? This will require more than simply stating the idea and telling people, "but how do you know it won't work?" It's your job to convince us, not our job to help you come up with easily dismissed lists of ideas.

 

[BigBombB]

I didn't say that this was a friendly audience; just the friendliest one you'll ever get. If you can't handle people criticizing your ideas when people disagree with them, marketing is not the field for you. I don't say that to try and be insulting, I say that because you seem utterly unprepared to handle criticism, which is part and parcel to the whole marketing thing. People "picking holes in my ideas" is something a marketer EXPECTS, and is prepared to account for with a convincing counterargument, not "well, YOU aren't generating lists! ".

You did get debate on what people thought about your ideas; it was just one-sided and not what you anticipated.

How about this time, instead of complaining that people aren't supporting your idea, you try and convince people to support your idea? This will require more than simply stating the idea and telling people, "but how do you know it won't work?" It's your job to convince us, not our job to help you come up with easily dismissed lists of ideas.

No, this post of yours is more the problem. You make wide sweeping assumptions, turn the debate into a strawman ('you can't handle criticism'), and offer nothing yourself. I'm fine with someone criticizing my ideas, if I wasn't I'd have 'taken it personally and flipped out' a long time ago, what I'm not ok with is people making the same non-points over and over.

And really, in the marketing field, it is only my 'job' to convince them that I have ideas that could work, not provide a three hour dissertation on how the market has been in the past. You keep repeating 'you have no business talking about marketing' and I keep repeating 'you don't understand marketing' because the latter is true simply because you don't realize that few top companies find any worth in past figures anymore. They are indicative of nothing, they don't prove whether an idea will work or not, only the execution of it and how the market takes to it will.

That isn't to say any old crappy idea will work, but one that has legs and that becomes refined rather than everyone complaining 'omg I didn't think of it so I'm going to be a critic because I get to feel important that way' is one that can go somewhere. The endless pessimism and ego-centric viewpoint that your opinion is right just because its yours (exactly what you just displayed in that post) is the real issue here.

 

[Rayne]

And yet again, instead of attempting to convince people why they should support your idea, you've gone into another speech about how it must be the people listening to your argument, and you'd just find that super supportive audience for your great ideas elsewhere.

And really, in the marketing field, it is only my 'job' to convince them that I have ideas that could work, not provide a three hour dissertation on how the market has been in the past.

This is why people keep saying you don't understand marketing. That is exactly your job. Even the parts that you do understand, that you have to convince people your ideas could work, you aren't doing. You're like a fish telling a dog that he doesn't know how to run.

Every asshole in the world has ideas. Every asshole in the world believes that their own personal ideas will work. However, not all ideas are good ones. It is your job to convince people that your idea is a good one and will work. That is the VERY essence of marketing. That's not even Marketing 101, that's what freshmen marketing majors are supposed to know before selecting a major. I have absolutely no clue where you're getting this idea that you can walk into a company, pitch the first idea that comes into your head, and then expect a room full of people to embrace it and build upon it, because I can tell you from personal experience that shit is just not how it works.

A more realistic experience, or what's called a 'pitch meeting' would be as such:

BigBombB: "I had this idea where we take Gail Kim, we get some celebrities, and we pitch her to young girls, and they'll come watching the product."
Boss: "Got anyone lined up? No? That idea sucks. Who else has anything?"

And that's your pitch meeting. If you don't have anything else, or an extremely compelling argument to change the mind of the person who controls the money to make your wishes reality, you're done. What you were expecting was a room full of supportive people to embrace your idea and give you that seventh-place participation medal for having an idea. By all means, if you think I'm mistaken, please try and convince your audience that your idea is worth consideration.

A lot of ideas 'could' work. A meteor 'could' strike New York City this afternoon. Gail Kim 'could' inspire a new generation of young girls to watch professional wrestling on the basis of her celebrity husband knowing people. They just aren't very fucking likely. As a marketer, as someone who sells a product to another person, it is exactly your job not to tell someone why something 'could' work, but that it WOULD work, and that the person buying would be a fool not to support it.

----------------------

The irony to all of this is that right this very second, I'm drafting a marketing proposal. I'm trying to convince a parks commission to install a disc golf course, and they have no reason to support me. It's literally my job to convince them that the installation of a disc golf course would be a can't-miss decision for their park, and I'm pretty sure that if I went to them, gave them the very rough outline of my plan, and told them "well other parks would be more supportive and build upon my ideas", they'd tell me to go see those other parks. Instead, I have an hour-long presentation (three hours is too long, you lose people) demonstrating how various local and national trends make a course at this particular park a potential travel destination. I point out that a championship course placed on this property 'would' attract world and national championship events to the area, and supply a list of reasons to that effect- not wishes like "celebrities, I don't know who, will totally show up", but actual, concrete reasons that these people can go out and investigate for themselves. I provide a projected budget, a means to pay for it, and reasons backing up that those means won't fall through. I provide a projected construction, demonstration, and opening schedule. AND- after all this- someone who sits on the board could simply say "we're not interested". They don't even need any good reasons to tell me why they aren't interested, which is why it's my job, as someone marketing an idea, to convince them that they'd be foolish not to support it. Of course I believe my idea is awesome, but *I'm* not the person I have to convince, and I suspect that telling a parks commission that they just don't understand how ideas are sold isn't going to get me anywhere.

And so I ask again. Are you marketing ideas, or looking for a support group?

 

[BigBombB]

The irony to all of this is that right this very second, I'm drafting a marketing proposal. I'm trying to convince a parks commission to install a disc golf course, and they have no reason to support me. It's literally my job to convince them that the installation of a disc golf course would be a can't-miss decision for their park, and I'm pretty sure that if I went to them, gave them the very rough outline of my plan, and told them "well other parks would be more supportive and build upon my ideas", they'd tell me to go see those other parks. Instead, I have an hour-long presentation (three hours is too long, you lose people) demonstrating how various local and national trends make a course at this particular park a potential travel destination. I point out that a championship course placed on this property 'would' attract world and national championship events to the area, and supply a list of reasons to that effect- not wishes like "celebrities, I don't know who, will totally show up", but actual, concrete reasons that these people can go out and investigate for themselves. I provide a projected budget, a means to pay for it, and reasons backing up that those means won't fall through. I provide a projected construction, demonstration, and opening schedule. AND- after all this- someone who sits on the board could simply say "we're not interested". They don't even need any good reasons to tell me why they aren't interested, which is why it's my job, as someone marketing an idea, to convince them that they'd be foolish not to support it. Of course I believe my idea is awesome, but *I'm* not the person I have to convince, and I suspect that telling a parks commission that they just don't understand how ideas are sold isn't going to get me anywhere.

And so I ask again. Are you marketing ideas, or looking for a support group?

So because I didn't provide an hour long powerpoint (that no one on a message board would ever read or watch) about why this is a workable idea that means the idea is utter shit? That is the assumption you keep putting across and why I keep questioning how much you really know about your field. I think I'm realizing where the communication breakdown here is though. You want me to do in text what you can visually do in the field, you want me to show 'passion' in text that is dependent on the person reading it. I offered something fitting to the setting, while you're expecting something that would be presented in front of real people in a real life setting. I assume I don't need to explain to you how different these settings are and what a ginormous waste of time it would be to go to the lengths you're talking about for a message board post.

You also make another very valid point that makes me question why you're being needlessly obstinate here. "I can put all this work into it, they hate the idea, I offer them proof of why it should work, they still hate the idea." Even great ideas can have people that don't care about them at all. Obviously being as prepared as possible is super important in a real life setting and believing in your idea is important too (believing what you're saying is possibly the most important part of it all). Having a good idea means less than having the audience that will be receptive to your idea, one audience may never be convinced no matter what you say (you seem to be that way toward my idea), one audience may absolutely adore it.

If you're trying to say I didn't research the market enough, I counter with this. WWE's marketing of John Cena as a role model, successful, Vince Russo says the Mike Tyson angle is what officially started the Attitude era, successful, carefully crafted viral videos catching the attention of a lot of new eyes, successful. But how does that relate to my idea? It doesn't. No one has done this specific kind of marketing in wrestling yet, creating viral inspirational videos that get people interested in the person which then gets them interested in seeing more of them. I'm sure with a lot of research I could offer tons of 'celebrities in wrestling' and 'wrestling utilizing the internet' figures that would have zero correlation to the potential success of this idea because it isn't like anything else.

My idea is essentially a long term plan. Target markets WWE isn't focusing on, place the importance back on the characters rather than on the brand (even if one of the main people gets injured, you can still show them and their working through an injury so you don't lose their value while they're hurt), focus on issues that regular every day people care about rather than issues that only a wrestler would care about, put a lot of emphasis on getting new eyes on the product and maintaining at least a 10% retention rate of all new viewers, be flexible with ideas and be prepared to go in new directions if the current direction isn't working, and utilize people with big fanbases that aren't typically thought of when bringing in 'celebrities'. A flexible, personal, but still hard hitting product that appeals to new wrestling fans while giving people who aren't fans of wrestling a reason to respect them (in spite of the sport being 'fake'). Being fun, being current, and being cutting edge in it's approach. That is what I think TNA could be.

 

[Rayne]

So because I didn't provide an hour long powerpoint (that no one on a message board would ever read or watch) about why this is a workable idea that means the idea is utter shit? That is the assumption you keep putting across and why I keep questioning how much you really know about your field.

Yes. The fish often thinks that he could outrun the dog, if only he had legs.

There is a middle ground between no information and a full presentation. What you are doing is espousing basic marketing themes- "create viral videos", "use celebrities to increase visibility"- and presenting these as the ideas that will reinvigorate TNA. To you, inexperienced in marketing but convinced you've got the chops, these are fleshed out ideas which someone will add to later down the line. However, your fresh, exciting ideas that no one's tried before are the old, stale standbys, with no information provided as to how your ideas are actually fresh and exciting.

For instance, this whole "viral video" nonsense. If you can go out and deliver a promise to an employer that you can create material which will spread virally and promote their product, you will be able to get a job with any company in the world. Everyone is trying to make viral videos these days; the trick is actually getting that video viral, in a way that makes people want to purchase your product. What makes your viral videos special? What makes people watching them want to tune in to TNA?

Considering the creation of videos that go viral is pretty much the centerpiece of your plan, and it doesn't work without it, you should probably spend more effort on a strategy to make those videos go viral, rather than assuming people will a) be interested in them, b) be interested enough in them to share it with their friends, and c) be interested in it enough to become interested in professional wrestling. I, like most of you, see fifty different videos in my Facebook feed every day that I skip over. Why are people watching yours?

Then, we have this nonsense about role models. This is Marketing 101- find a figure which resonates with your audience, and have them sell products. This has been the basic advertising operation since the invention of radio. But you list no way of creating role models; you seem to simply think that by having a girl roll around with other girls, and shoot a YouTube video, that suddenly hundreds of thousands of people from a demographic having zero historical interest in professional wrestling are going to start watching. Young girls are, God help us, looking to the Demi Lovato's and Ariana Grande's of the world. They have absolutely no shortage of role models that are being offered to them in exchange for their money. What are you actually offering that competes with those other role models and causes them to tune into your product?

This is why people keep telling you that you don't grasp this marketing thing. You understand the very, very, very broad concepts, and your plan to reach your goals frequently ends in "and this important thing just happens, because."

You also make another very valid point that makes me question why you're being needlessly obstinate here. "I can put all this work into it, they hate the idea, I offer them proof of why it should work, they still hate the idea." Even great ideas can have people that don't care about them at all.

Needless to you; you were looking for someone to tell you how great your ideas were. Out in the real world, the people you need to agree with you aren't always predisposed to agree to you. Out in the real world, obstinancy is an actual thing, which people who control the money and power which you would like to use to accomplish your goals have a right to.

Getting around that obstinancy is a very, very, very basic part of marketing ideas. Stamping your feet and insisting that your audience clearly doesn't understand your brilliance has a historically low success rate.

My idea is essentially a long term plan.

And this is alpha example #1 of why people keep telling you that your fish doesn't have legs. TNA doesn't have long term. They don't have a couple years they can spend hoping things go viral. A marketing pitch has to fit the needs of the people it's being pitched to. Great, you can save TNA in three years? Right now, they're worried about if they'll be around in four months, and need a plan for that.