Mark Madden - your opinions?

[Maestro48239]

ok, now that I've had a chance to sleep,...aaaand sober up!

as for dixie and crew using the ECW formula, its completely business, and that's what wrestling is at that level isnt it? a business, and in a business, the idea is to make money. ask VKM about that.

so when dixie has an opp to try and expand the fanbase a bit, by wooing some of the disgruntled former ECW fans, why shouldnt she? maybe she can put it over better then Vince did.

what vince did with ECW was this: imagine he showed us a brand new kitten, awwwww look, a cute little kitten, he got us excited about it, then...he fed it to a snake much to our horror and chagrin.

I really hope this works out for TNA, I love the show, the stars, the storylines, etc etc
and I feel like so many other people that VKM made us watch him execute ECW so he could prove once again he was the king of wrestling.

as for mark madden, I wonder if he self-high fived himself for that brutal rant. then of course picked a french fry out of one of his fat rolls!

 

[Ferbian]

Honestly? Why should I give a damn? I watch WWE primarily. But Mark has a point. He does state the obvious that it's ridiculous for TNA to promote a concept they could practically get their ass sued for.

They're basically remaking One Night Stand. And it doesn't even seem interesting anymore. These talents are older, they're aged. The majority of them probably wouldn't be able to hold a candle to their 90's performances. Much less the ridiculousness behind the fact that the fans started chanting for Sabu. Arguably the most dangerous man in the ring, and not because of his gimmick.

And don't get me wrong. I don't mind what TNA is doing with it, I really don't. Because in the end I don't care enough for it. ECW has always been garbage to me. Back in 90 it was garbage, it was garbage in WWE, and it's gonna be garbage now.

So I can totally follow Mark Madden's opinion. He has a point in it being a bad move, and that Dixie knows zero. Sure it brings a few fans in here and there. But the exact same fans are gonna be complaining when they see that TNA couldn't even bring back half the greatness that they thought of ECW in the 90's. The only reason One Night Stand was special was due to it being something fresh in an old way, and unscripted. And look where that went.

 

[Travaje]

Most people don't like being put on blast by anybody. Even though he doesn't say it directly, When Madden puts TNA on blast, Madden is essentially putting TNA fans on blast, saying that TNA is garbage, and that if you like TNA, you like garbage. And there are always going to be a percentage of fans out there who don't want to believe it, for whatever reason, be it that they can't stand WWE, or they're longing for something in the past that doesn't exist anymore but wish it still did, or something else. And instead of looking at the message, they're going to simply try to put the messenger back on blast.

In my opinion, Madden is absolutely right and has incredible insight into the business. Jim Ross, someone who I respect a great deal, shares this opinion, and Jim Ross is someone who has time and again stated that TNA has major problems, yet wishes them the best and hopes that they are successful. And Ross works for WWE. Nobody ever gets worked up when Ross essentially mirrors Madden's statements, maybe because he's more respected or he's more subtle, or whatever the case may be.

I know that for some people here, the bottom line for them is wrestling, but to those in the wrestling business, the bottom line is money. Period. Madden may think a lot of things WWE does is ridiculous, and in many cases I'd agree, but he doesn't hold them in contempt like he does TNA because their business is run very well and they make a substantial profit. TNA, back in 2005 when it was much better, or today, struggles to make any kind of a profit, and only does so by not paying their talent the kind of money that's going to inspire them to work the kind of matches you're hoping for. Their PPV's draw less than the nightly adult movie being run on the back channels of your cable box. Do I want to TNA to succeed? Absolutely. But those who blindly defend it and cannot be honest with what they are watching, deserve to be put on blast, by Madden or by anybody.

Madden's not putting the brand, or the talent, or the matches on blast. He's putting the people running the show on blast, because even if TNA were producing 5-Star matches on a weekly basis and giving us some of the best wrestling we've seen in years, he believes that the people running the company would fail to capitalize and not draw money. And he would be correct. And no company is going to succeed if they cannot draw. I would ask those who blindly defend TNA and not take any of these things into consideration....how much of your money are you investing and spending on TNA? And if you are, show proof. If you're loving TNA, but watching the PPV's on Justin.tv and not going to any live shows, how the hell do you think they're going to be able to continue?

I don't want TNA to shut down, but Madden's point is that if they don't, Dixie Carter is going to cost her father's company a ton of money. Argue that, instead of arguing if TNA sucks or if it doesn't.

 

[ilapierre]

Let me start off by saying I am not a fan of TNA. I do watch once and a while but nothing ever keeps me watching. I neither love it or hate it. It does nothing for me. Mark Madden has made comments about TNA or WCW or WWE that have in the past made me laugh and he has made seemingly valid points and observations about the behind the scenes stuff about wrestlers and management personnel. But over time i've come to see that his overall arguments are always biased and flawed.

This argument i'm gonna make is biased, but it's not flawed. I'll build my argument's foundation on a simple fact and then back it up with evidence. Mark Madden is a world class moron. In one of his latest columns he says Dixie doesn't look in the mirror. Ha. Looks who is talking. He's a bully trapped in the body of a fat pimply juvenile 14 year old bratty nerd. He's far too busy looking for the worst in people as people in his past probably did with him..he looks for people's shortcomings and focuses all his energies bringing attention to them and exaggerating these flaws as part of an agenda to destroy a person and their credibility all because the person 10 years ago might have looked at him funny. He looks for the negative in everything, to cover up how bad of a columnist he is and color commentator he was. Jim Ross gave him compliments a few weeks ago, but we all know JR butt kisses those with power or an influential voice, and Madden's ego catapulted into space. He said a few odd positive things about TNA and took a few digs at WWE (the company Jim Ross is reportedly having his problems with lately). In each and every column, he'll give credit to two or three things about a wrestler, a company, or company figure that he intends to pick to pieces. He does this so he can't be called completely biased although it's obvious he has an agenda as he vents his venomous hatred week after week with the same exact complaints over and over again about the people who stood in his way at WCW. He tries to come across credible by doing this and to somewhat cover up his obvious hatred of the people from his past and the new guys and gals there like Dixie who would never think of hiring such a talentless hack. Velvet Sky could go on record saying Madden is a total douchebag and the guy would turn around and focus his career on convincing wrestling fans that the Knockouts aren't hot anymore.

Anyway, i've voiced my piece on Madden before and I'm starting to feel the way that Madden must feel saying the same negative thing over and over again to get my point across. But here's one new (and long) point i'll leave here with. A lot of posters say "Madden rubs me the wrong way but at least he tells it the way it is." And that my friends is the biggest load of BS and anybody who makes such a statement in his defence here can be totally written off as dumb.

Simply put, Madden makes statements and tells people they are true. Go back and look through his columns and verify every fact he throws out in his initial statement. It's always his point of view, but its never really a fact. It's always something that's been speculated. See, he assumes something simple and then writes it in his column to persuade simple minded people it is complete truth and uses that self-proclaimed 'truth' to explain the rest of his argument. Sometimes what he bases his argument on is true or widely perceived to be true, but then he makes a secondary statement that follows from his original half truth and it seems to naturally follow his original line of thinking. So people assume that Madden is speaking the truth, all because he has a coherent line of thinking stemming from a half truth. Ultimately, his whole argument rests upon this 'half truth'. If the unproven 'half truth' isn't truth, then his whole argument is bull. And this happens to be the case more often than not. But he trucks on as if his self-professed assumption is true and then denounces somebody or someone who challenges that based on this skewed kind of logic. And a lot of people go along with it without questioning the simple things wrestling fans can easily take for granted as true. This happens in each and every column. He builds his arguments not on a foundation of a simple truth but a foundation of propaganda and rhetoric. It's important for people who respect themselves and their own opinions to learn how to question even the simplest truth and not get carried away with what they want to hear. Madden tells TNA haters what they want to hear because they are the majority here and he has an axe to grind. These are simple truths that any rational thinker must keep in mind.

For example. A column a week or two ago started off like this. 'If Dixie Carter, as reported, blames the wrestlers for the mess TNA is, that merits congratulations. She’s even dumber than I thought. Either that, or Dixie doesn’t own a mirror.'

First question. As reported? By who? Where was it reported? How credible is the report? He never states this. For all we know it could have been reported by Triple H. Second question. What if Dixie Carter doesn't blame the wrestlers? What if its been reported wrong or what if it's only speculation? Third question. Who says TNA is a mess? A lot of TNA haters and some jaded TNA fans think its a mess but a lot of wrestling fans don't think its in a mess at all. TNA haters here for all we know are just obsessed internet wrestling geeks who think everything has been a mess since the Net began. Internet smarks with chronically negative opinions about whatever it is they don't like (like a 10 year old who won't stray from his safe routine of eating kraft dinner) essentially don't count.

Anyway, you can't trust a Madden column because he takes half truths and makes them real truths and then uses them to back up his agenda filled argument against TNA management and creative. He's a lazy armchair columnist. He's using rhetoric each and every week, his columns are propaganda. Anyone with a university education can see through this.

One more example:

But if I’m one of the guys or gals making $300 or $600 per show for a minimal amount of shots, my blood would be boiling.

Who said Dixie said this? Where did this get reported? Did Dixie on record get quoted as saying this? He uses this 'half truth' to attack the 'overpaid' stars that everyone loves to hate on. Then he throws in small paycheck amounts to push his agenda home. He wants the people from his past who are overpaid to be hated by the online wrestling community and he knows this will happen if he uses rhetoric and propaganda overtime to persuade them. The internet wrestling community of geeks will continue to call for these overpaid people's heads, and eventually they'll be fired and Madden will be there to tell you he told you so. And we all know young 'nobodies' won't make TNA competitive with WWE..overpaid 'somebodies' are essential for the young nobodies to get over. So his agenda is to destroy TNA and make himself look right in the process. I wish wrestling fans here who didn't want their minds controlled could stand up against such awful journalism and turn on him rather than TNA.

 

[Dum Dum Dudley]

So I can totally follow Mark Madden's opinion. He has a point in it being a bad move, and that Dixie knows zero. Sure it brings a few fans in here and there. But the exact same fans are gonna be complaining when they see that TNA couldn't even bring back half the greatness that they thought of ECW in the 90's. The only reason One Night Stand was special was due to it being something fresh in an old way, and unscripted. And look where that went.

I agree with you, man. I think the problem is that some TNA fans can not take any criticism of their product and Mark Madden can not sugar coat his opinions. You put the two together and people get pissed off, but i for one enjoy his columns and i think that 9 times out of 10, he's spot on about what he says.

Honestly? Why should I give a damn? I watch WWE primarily. But Mark has a point. He does state the obvious that it's ridiculous for TNA to promote a concept they could practically get their ass sued for.

They're basically remaking One Night Stand. And it doesn't even seem interesting anymore. These talents are older, they're aged. The majority of them probably wouldn't be able to hold a candle to their 90's performances. Much less the ridiculousness behind the fact that the fans started chanting for Sabu. Arguably the most dangerous man in the ring, and not because of his gimmick.

And don't get me wrong. I don't mind what TNA is doing with it, I really don't. Because in the end I don't care enough for it. ECW has always been garbage to me. Back in 90 it was garbage, it was garbage in WWE, and it's gonna be garbage now.

Again, i couldn't agree more. ONS was not something i was overly impressed with but for the one night, i thought it was entertaining... mainly down to the personnel involved. But with no Heyman/Jericho/Guerrero/Benoit/Mysterio confirmed, and the fact others like Tajiri and Super Crazy have commitments in Japan, you're essentially left with TNA wrestlers like RVD, Team 3D and Taz that have to turn around now and fly the flag for ECW. It makes no sense. Would WWE have their world champ(s) spend a month out of the title picture to play host to some memorial PPV? But hey, it doesn't bother me. I'll just take a month out of TNAECW and carry on watching WWE and then hopefully, by the time i get back, guys like Kurt Angle (y'know, the ones that actually have storylines going on) will be the focus as opposed to Rhyno and co.

 

[Ferbian]

Again, i couldn't agree more. ONS was not something i was overly impressed with but for the one night, i thought it was entertaining... mainly down to the personnel involved. But with no Heyman/Jericho/Guerrero/Benoit/Mysterio confirmed, and the fact others like Tajiri and Super Crazy have commitments in Japan, you're essentially left with TNA wrestlers like RVD, Team 3D and Taz that have to turn around now and fly the flag for ECW. It makes no sense. Would WWE have their world champ(s) spend a month out of the title picture to play host to some memorial PPV? But hey, it doesn't bother me. I'll just take a month out of TNAECW and carry on watching WWE and then hopefully, by the time i get back, guys like Kurt Angle (y'know, the ones that actually have storylines going on) will be the focus as opposed to Rhyno and co.

It's not so much the whole "Oh boo-fucking-ho we don't have half the exciting talent that One Night Stand or ECW originally had". Because I firmly believe that if these guys remaining were actually younger they could've easily carried the pay per view themselves.

But they're not. They're elder men nearing or already in their 40's. They won't be able to perform like they did in their 20's 30's when they were in ECW. They simply won't. And it's not a lash out at TNA for wanting to do it. I've already covered that I'm happy for them wanting to get fans. But in the end, it will be a bitchfest by the hardcore ECW crew. Not the casual fan that managed to live a little bit with the WWE product only to switch to TNA. I mean the die hard fans that did stuff like this.

[YOUTUBE]BTmm_icx8Bc[/YOUTUBE]

Do you see the potential danger we have here? Elder performers, and a few hundreds of die hard fans that will most likely do their best to riot if it does not go their way.

[YOUTUBE]g5NPVl26C6A[/YOUTUBE]

Vince should have been happy he booked RVD to win. Happy I tell you!

 

[joesgoingtoeatu]

Guys like him or not, hes completely on the money here and thats the real point. To build up a storyline for weeks on what was obviously coming, have an attack go on and then for the next week to say we respect tna and compare it to ecw is a joke. Does Dreamer really believe that they are simliar and does he really need a 2nd closure ? I find that hard to believe.

So now we get 1 pay-per-view where half the TNA roster will get pushed aside for the likes of Balls Mahoney, Axl Rotten, and the Sandman ? How do you think the TNA wrestlers who wont be on the pay-per-view because of them feel about that ? And what happens when its over , do the ecw guys just go away ?

At least it should have been an invasion with Mick Foley in charge, is it believeable Mick Foley wouldnt be bitter at Dixie for letting Bischoff book him in a retirement match with Jarrett ? I mean this shit can not be booked any worse. Hogan is probably in Connecticut right now on his knees begging Vince for a job.

Say what you want about Mark Madden, it doesnt matter how he says it because its true. I mean for people to say, well why doesnt he give them credit for the things they do well ? Its because whatever they do well does not last very long and gets shoved to side when things like this become the focus. (and btw he gave the flair/lethal program credit, so theres one thing lol). Mark Madden speaks the truth and does not have any motives behind it whatsoever, i think

 

[Dum Dum Dudley]

It's not so much the whole "Oh boo-fucking-ho we don't have half the exciting talent that One Night Stand or ECW originally had". Because I firmly believe that if these guys remaining were actually younger they could've easily carried the pay per view themselves.

But they're not. They're elder men nearing or already in their 40's. They won't be able to perform like they did in their 20's 30's when they were in ECW. They simply won't. And it's not a lash out at TNA for wanting to do it. I've already covered that I'm happy for them wanting to get fans. But in the end, it will be a bitchfest by the hardcore ECW crew. Not the casual fan that managed to live a little bit with the WWE product only to switch to TNA.

I see what you're saying but even today Jericho and Mysterio can put on entertaining matches that may be better than TNA's current product so it would make a little bit of sense to have them on board (even though that isn't possible). And i agree, in their prime guys like Dreamer and Raven could put on solid matches but guys like Richards/Rhyno/Sandman are not solid wrestlers, they can't put on the matches that the guys i listed could. Even back then they couldn't so Lord knows what state a standard wrestling match with those guys would be in. So you mention a valid point. Do TNA allow these men to wrestle at a standard much poorer than Joe, AJ and Angle to entice the casual wrestling fan; or do they allow these 40 year old men to be battered and destroyed in a hardcore environment to entice the old ECW crowd that may not be as dedicated to TNA's product? But my main concern with this PPV is the involvent of AJ/Angle and the other guys who may, in theory, have o delay the storylines they are in for a month so that this experiment can be conducted. If i was to pay for a TNA PPV (i don't becasue they are broadcast for free on Bravo here in the UK, but for the sake of the arguement i did pay) i would rather pay to see AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Kurt Angle and the guys that they already have on the roster than whoever they bring in from ECW.

 

[dwith]

IMO I honestly think Dixie is trying to do something that WWE didn't do. TNA has already gone more hard core than usual ever since WWE diecided to go kiddie tv. I think the way ECW had ended was a disgrace to all the wrestlers who busted their ass for the original company, and was tossed out in Vince's new ECW. I think Dixie is trying to show up Vince McMahon, and let wrestler's know that she seem's to care about history, and their wrestler's more than Vince seem's too.

I have to give credit to Dixie in some way's for being as brazing as she is with the whole ECW show. I think she is trying to get Vince's attention if not for anything than to make Vince publicly admit their is another company out there, and they are trying to show the world there is a alternative. Now with Dixie having already gone more hardcore even before this ECW was ever a thought, I think to a certain extent she is making a descent choice. Have a hardcore pv(try the market), and why not do it with the original hardcores, and see how the ratings go. If go up a bit, keep on a couple of the ECWERS that still can go, and use them to create their own hardcore division with a belt.

I do think that if it is strictly all ECW wrestler's and not any of the TNA wrestler's I think that's a huge mistake. Cause if the ratings go up in the Hardcore PPV it means TNA who has been running for 10 years still isn't as good as ECW was when it closed 10 years ago. That wouldn't be good. She need's to mix the ECW roster with the TNA roster .

So I see where Madden his harsh on her, and TNA, but I think he's going over board and looking at this decision from the wrong perspective.

 

[Ferbian]

I firmly believe this will be all hardcore wrestling. And it's a shame. It's been done before. It's still being done in WWE on a yearly basic. The fact that TNA believes it will be a success worthy of airing on Pay Per View is laughable. At least to me.

The fact that TNA wants to believe that these people, while they can still perform, will be able to put on a match good enough to please the fans. Is yet again laughable. And yes I certainly do agree, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho made ECW something as well. They didn't all perform at One Night Stand though. So therefore I firmly believe they can still put on a show. But it won't be like the old ECW.

To me the ECW fans and performers are crazed. Not because they wanna put on hardcore matches for the sake of entertaining and to be entertained. Not because they're so loyal to the product. Because that's respectable and something you should be proud to present. However it is due to the fact that the ECW fans as well as the performers seems to strike me as people now firmly believing in their smashed up minds that this is the one and only way to entertain.

Mick Foley went to WWE. He performed hardcore matches on a regular basic as well. Mostly because he wasn't a great normal wrestler. But nonetheless he never let go of the ECW spirit. But he was still hated by the fans for leaving. Tommy Dreamer is considered the innovator of violence. He was barely worth watching in WWE ECW without a hardcore match. It just shows that this Pay Per View needs to be hardcore to be slightly watchable.

And it will be painful to watch either way. Again, not a bash at TNA, but a fact.

 

[tubby91]

What ever happened to just not watching something if you claim to not like it?
Just because TNA is a wrestling company and Mark Madden USED to be partially...somewhat involved in the wrestling business doesn't mean that he HAS to watch it.
I, myself, have an extreme disliking for the Jersey Shore. Now, see, what i do to make sure that i never have to see that revolting piece of garbage is...just NOT WATCH IT.
And that works.
Mark Madden has nothing else to write about apparently, so every week he sits down for two hours, watches a wrestling program that he hates, and proceeds to write the same column every week insulting TNA and the people that run TNA.
I'm sure Mark Madden could write very good columns about a number of things involving wrestling, but he truly sucks in my eyes as a wrestling journalist until he can step away from pleasing the TNA bashers and actually write a good journalistic piece about wrestling.

 

[thepalaceprince]

Mark madden craps on tna every week its nothing new. Il admit sometimes it gets a little annoying because he never writes about anything else but his criticism is usually fair. TNA is a mess the booking is a joke the roster is so overloaded that they cnt possibly showcase everyone and now they are devoting time every week to a bunch washed up wrestlers that couldnt cut it in the wwe. Why?! So they can generate a little buzz for a month or two? Thats ridiculous instead of trying to promote people that arent draws (if you think thats opinion and not fact go ask how much tommy dreamer and rhino brought in for the wwe. I bet cena brings in more cash from merchandise sold at a house show then those clowns ever brought in) TNA has a slew of problems one that really bothers me is they fail to realize that nobody wants to watch washed up stars and wwe cast offs. Instead of trying to get every last bit of energy out of a fading star why not try and create your own. Instead of bringing in flair and hogan why not find the next hogan and flair Id rather watch up and coming talent then old washed up wrestlers.
Also I wanna address your little argument with dirty jose when you said that it was his opinion that nobody in tna is a dependable draw. Well actually thats not opinion thats fact. The only three people on the roster that have ever been considered a real draw are flair hogan sting and hardy and flair sting and hogan are washed up and for whatever reason hardy without the wwe is complete and utter crap. RVD isnt a draw neither is aj styles or anyone else on the tna roster if they could draw they would either be working in the wwe or tna would be able to draw better ratings the wwe superstars.

 

[AndarielHalo]

He put into words exactly what I thought about the end of iMPACT! I couldn't quite understand, but I felt as though it made TNA look bad the way they spoke so fondly and lovingly of ECW. At first, I thought it was that TNA was so shitty, they needed to bring an entirely different promotion in to boost their ratings and PPV sells.

But Mark Madden clarified it for me. Indeed I read his columns all the time, for I find that his opinions are often most in line with how I feel towards the wrestling business as a disillusioned smark, but I do disagree with him on several persistent points, namely regarding female wrestlers.

 

[Tully]

I like Mark Madden. In this day of watered-down wussy "don't hurt anyone's precious feewings" (VOMIT), he's refreshingly candid and tells it like it is.

And on this subject, he's correct: Resurrecting the corpse of a long-dead federation which still technically belongs to your arch-rival is an asinine idea. Elevating mid-card talent like Crying Tommy Dreamer and Dancing Stevie Richards over one of the best in-ring workers of all time (Kurt Angle) is stupid, even if it's just one "hardcore" show.

Just Dixie's decision to elevate 'hardcore' is itself stupid. In its heyday, ECW was the third-string federation behind WWE and WCW. So who exactly is TNA trying to appeal to here?

Like many scenarios throughout history, getting angry at Madden's factual post is merely shooting the messenger, a tactic that's never accomplished anything before and won't here.

Face it - Madden's right. Only wussies are gonna get all upset at his method of delivering this truth.

 

[Tully]

What ever happened to just not watching something if you claim to not like it?
Just because TNA is a wrestling company and Mark Madden USED to be partially...somewhat involved in the wrestling business doesn't mean that he HAS to watch it.
I, myself, have an extreme disliking for the Jersey Shore. Now, see, what i do to make sure that i never have to see that revolting piece of garbage is...just NOT WATCH IT.
And that works.
Mark Madden has nothing else to write about apparently, so every week he sits down for two hours, watches a wrestling program that he hates, and proceeds to write the same column every week insulting TNA and the people that run TNA.
I'm sure Mark Madden could write very good columns about a number of things involving wrestling, but he truly sucks in my eyes as a wrestling journalist until he can step away from pleasing the TNA bashers and actually write a good journalistic piece about wrestling.

Since he's a 'wrestling journalist', isn't he supposed to...you know..write about wrestling? Therefore, him analyzing TNA is perfectly legit. I do wish he'd offer his WWE opinions as openly as he bashes TNA because frankly I find the WWE to be pretty crappy at the moment but that's another topic.

Madden's an industry insider and, unlike many in the IWC, has actually worked in the biz and with many of these wrestlers personally. That's why I value his take on wrestling topics: Right or wrong...agree or disagree...the opinion is coming from a guy who's been there and knows what he's talking about.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Like many have stated 1st, Madden NEVER WORKED FOR TNA, he hasn't been in the wrestling business since WCW wrapped up in 01.

Personally, even though Madden is very brash and sometmes comes off like a complete asshole, he has some very intelligent things to say about the current state of the product, in both TNA and WWE. The reason he doesn't bash WWE as much as TNA because he thinks TNA has no idea what they are doing, and from what I see whenever I turn on iMPACT or a TNA PPV, I have to say he's pretty spot on with his observations of the product. With the article you posted, Madden was spot on IMO as he is stating his true feelings, which is the feelings of many who read it.

Not everyone is going to agree with what Madden says, but by looking at the responses in this thread has, I would say he's doing just fine because alot of people have an opinion of Madden (as a matter of fact every Madden thread has plenty of responses from what I remember), not everyone has to agree with him, but he gets all of us talking and thats the most important thing.

 

[DirtyJosé]

ok, now that I've had a chance to sleep,...aaaand sober up!

as for dixie and crew using the ECW formula, its completely business, and that's what wrestling is at that level isnt it? a business, and in a business, the idea is to make money. ask VKM about that.

so when dixie has an opp to try and expand the fanbase a bit, by wooing some of the disgruntled former ECW fans, why shouldnt she? maybe she can put it over better then Vince did.

what vince did with ECW was this: imagine he showed us a brand new kitten, awwwww look, a cute little kitten, he got us excited about it, then...he fed it to a snake much to our horror and chagrin.

I really hope this works out for TNA, I love the show, the stars, the storylines, etc etc
and I feel like so many other people that VKM made us watch him execute ECW so he could prove once again he was the king of wrestling.

as for mark madden, I wonder if he self-high fived himself for that brutal rant. then of course picked a french fry out of one of his fat rolls!

First of all, thanks for the PM, I'm glad we are back on civil terms now.

Secondly, I see your point, especially the part about having to watch McMahon pull the trigger on ECW over the course of years. However, I don't think it was totally about proving he is better. Many of those originals just can't carry interest from week to week. They are good to bring in for a one-off show, but can't carry the show on their own. If they were any good at this, ECW would have been around longer.

What ever happened to just not watching something if you claim to not like it?
Just because TNA is a wrestling company and Mark Madden USED to be partially...somewhat involved in the wrestling business doesn't mean that he HAS to watch it.
I, myself, have an extreme disliking for the Jersey Shore. Now, see, what i do to make sure that i never have to see that revolting piece of garbage is...just NOT WATCH IT.
And that works.
Mark Madden has nothing else to write about apparently, so every week he sits down for two hours, watches a wrestling program that he hates, and proceeds to write the same column every week insulting TNA and the people that run TNA.
I'm sure Mark Madden could write very good columns about a number of things involving wrestling, but he truly sucks in my eyes as a wrestling journalist until he can step away from pleasing the TNA bashers and actually write a good journalistic piece about wrestling.

As others have already pointed out to you, Mark Madden is doing a job when he posts. It isn't like when you hammer out a post like this and nobody cares; he's hired to write columns that drive interest and traffic for the site. I can understand being tired of reading his negativity, but maybe you can next time address the topic instead of just flaming the guy.

madden is a bitter piece of shit and his opinion means nothing. he is like the girl who never got asked to prom but watched the guy she wanted ask out her friend lol. anyway ive been down the madden road before at this WZ shithole, im not going there again.

Oh good, because that would be, like, staying on topic. Can't have that.

im only posting because im laughing so hard at the perfect example i saw....the original post and the following reply by "dirty jose" sums up the WZ forums. completely. in two posts.

No space between "Dirty" and "Jose" buddy.

one person asks a question or a general realization/comment.

No, one guy made a spammer of an OP.

the next guy jumps in with a grammar lesson and personal attacks on the OP. he barely touches the topic the thread was constructed for. more time was spent bashing than replying.

There was barely a topic other than the OP getting mad.

this is why WZ forums are shit and always will be.

You have been a member far longer than I have, but haven't posted much. This, with your bitterness, tells me that you probably could never get the hang of non-spam posting or making decent threads. What's wrong? WZ Forums are far from shit, they are just strict about what bullshit flies in the non-spam sections. And for good reason, because most of us don't want to read posts of one liners or people like you who can only bitch and not actually bring anything to the conversation. So thank you for trying to make me part of your loathing for this place, but I suggest you instead learn how to post....or just get the hell out.

So you say you've done the Madden thing before? Why not try again here? Show me what you've got! Why is Madden's criticism invalid?

Not everyone is going to agree with what Madden says, but by looking at the responses in this thread has, I would say he's doing just fine because alot of people have an opinion of Madden (as a matter of fact every Madden thread has plenty of responses from what I remember), not everyone has to agree with him, but he gets all of us talking and thats the most important thing.

And this is why the guy has a column on the front page. Love or hate him, you know who he is. And his insight, while a little biased, is still useful and applicable. He brings people in because they love his work and think he tells it like it is, and he brings in people because they hate him and have to see what he says next. A lot like Bubba the love stooge, only with talent.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Madden is now, and always has been, a guy with a narrative. He takes a position, and pushes it, never backs off it, even when he's wrong. For instance, he's a huge, huge Flair mark. Therefore he bashes Hogan at every chance he gets, or bashes Foley saying "he'll take anything that pays", ignoring the fact that I doubt Ric Flair is doing Lotto commercials because he has a genuine love for the Lottery. Or he'll shit on certain people from WCW for using their powers to politic, blaming them for the demise of WCW, but then glosses over Kevin Nash doing the same thing because Nash and Madden are buddies. So, you have to take what he says about certain things with a barrell (not a grain) of salt. Also, he knows that hating on TNA is what pushes the meter and ups the traffic among the IWC folks, so he takes that to an extreme level, to get more hits.

 

[nutt]

I haven't read any posts on pages 2-5 before saying this, but Mark Madden is good for wrestling today.

Wrestling as we know it has become bland, too predictable and downright awful. I remember around the time the WWF/E split into two brands, I would watch RAW and read Smackdown spoilers to determine what to watch. As time went on, I started to DVR both shows, just to pick and choose what to watch (i.e. avoiding guest host disasters). The WWE is predictable...TNA is becoming that way, and even Jim Ross pointed that out during the Lethal Lockdown match on his twitter (Abyss turning heel was imminent).

Mark had a great column a couple of weeks back on predictability and he was referring to how it can be a cash cow if booked correctly. Great examples given are Sting chasing Flair in 1990, Stone Cold's title runs in 1998 and 1999, and Benoit's quest for the World Title in 2004. It's all about how people will pay to see it, because the story is presented the right way. Take Sting vs. Hogan....Hogan's creative control killed WCW, bar none.

But, back to the subject at hand...TNA is using ECW, a WWE-owned trademark, to sell PPV's, so he has a point. If the WWE wanted to, they could sue TNA for mentioning ECW (by their employers, not the fans) on the air, in reference to purchasing their product.

Face it....TNA could be the sixth most popular organization of professional wrestling in America in 2011....behind WWE, ROH, Dragon Gate USA, Wilpon Wrestling, and yes....Lucha USA.

 

[Maestro48239]

Secondly, I see your point, especially the part about having to watch McMahon pull the trigger on ECW over the course of years. However, I don't think it was totally about proving he is better. Many of those originals just can't carry interest from week to week. They are good to bring in for a one-off show, but can't carry the show on their own. If they were any good at this, ECW would have been around longer.

maybe it wasnt ego driven, but i feel that by watering down the original ECW recipe, he therefore sealed its fate

example: vince tells ECW, "we want you to run like you always have, but....you cant have bleeding. oh! and also, limit your movesets, so no one gets hurt. and above all...make sure it's kiddie-friendly!

WTF! the original ECW was NEVER kiddie friendly!

he knew by imposing all these limitations he would drive away any of the core fans from the old days, him being a billionaire or whatever, he should fucking know this!!

and I know it's along shot, but maybe TNA can make it work, i mean come on! its only one PPV to pay tribute the former glory of ECW! I seriously doubt that TNA would try to make this ECW angle a permanent thing

 

[ilapierre]

Mark Madden dumping on TNA each and every week would be the same if I posted a column on WZ each week telling everybody they can't enjoy Mark Madden's columns because he's fat, stupid, and talentless. But what successful person who isn't feeling inferior would do such a thing? Do I really need to state the glaring obvious about Mark Madden when it's clearly so true and does Mark Madden need to always be stating the so called glaring obvious about TNA being a mess if it really was so true. I mean c'mon, who really goes around constantly picking on the fat kid or the extreme dork with glasses who are clearly easy pickings for bullies. I mean who really cheers for the favourite against the underdog? Why state the glaring obvious..just because it's true? Why not talk about something else not so obvious if it's so obvious TNA is a lost cause that no one should like??? Anyway, my point is that Mark Madden is like a bully who picks on the fat kid or the dorky glasses wearing clutz. He has to point out the obvious every day just so people KNOW that the fat kid is fat and the dorky kid is a dork and clutzy. He's like the bully who becomes a bully cause people from his past beat him up. He grows up to be one of those douchebags who goes crazy when he gets looked at the wrong way. Those type of people go around emphasizing the negative rather than trying to be helpful with some positive thinking. Instead of saying "that fat kid is fat so what" or "that fat kid is fat and so am i" or "that fat kid can turn his life around" he focuses on the negative, as if to say 'the fat kid that looked at me funny once won't amount to shit, he's a talentless hack, he should just look in the mirror and pull the plug on his life."

That's Mark Madden for ya. He is a douchebag, and i feel stupid for having to state this over and over again but there are so many people here who don't see the GLARING OBVIOUS.

 

[Tripleb2k1]

The way he phrases his 'criticisms' is the problem.
His flaming is so turned on that you sometimes tend to never observe anything constructive and just makes Madden look like a bitter old twat!

I'm sure he's not.
I have seen TNA shows (though not very regular) and I'm familiar with their problems.
However if Madden is going to say stuff like

I am amazed by the continuing deification of a company that never built enough fan interest to stand on its own two feet financially.

Is TNA going bankrupt now??!
Never built enough fan interest to stand on it's own two feet financially?!?!?!

You know what,
TNA is just giving something a last run and I do agree about Madden's buy comments about the next PPV.
Problem is, when some new storyline comes along, TNA f*ks up their old good-running storylines ala Hogan's coming and MEM just disappearing.

So maybe Mr. Madden should just write a column where he isn't using phrases to give it wit, humour or understatement because whenever he does, he ends up looking like a disgruntled dino-mark.

The part I bolded, isnt referencing TNA, its about ECW. I honestly agree with Madden. just leave ECW alone and build your product and audience instead of putting it on pause just for a TNA:ECW PPV

 

[Tripleb2k1]

It's not Copyright Infringement until TNA starts using ECW logos and music or starts implying that it's ECW in TNA more than they have. Remember back to early nWo, when there was legitimate tension enough to Vince to sue over the implication that WWF had sent those boys over. They even went out of their way to address that on television. The situation now is drastically different, but that possibility remains the same.

Still, the point he makes is that TNA will be seen as showing that ECW is greater than TNA. And ECW is a McMahon property. Thus, it can be seen by fans as TNA admitting that WWE/ECW was/is a greater product than their own. That, or the possibility of it, doesn't seem beneficial to TNA.

Every time Taz & Mike Tenay(keep wanting to call him Cole.lol) open their mouths and say "ECW", WWE has grounds for copyright lawsuits

 

[boombox77]

I was watching something on the NFL Network yesterday and Mark Madden came on. I immediately wanted to reach through the tv and slap the shit out of him. He is a total idiot and a complete waste of oxygen.

 

[Star-ratz]

I firmly believe this will be all hardcore wrestling. And it's a shame. It's been done before. It's still being done in WWE on a yearly basic.

What?? Hold on just a minute...are you telling me that the PGWWE has a HARDCORE show that they put on once a year??
How the fuck have I missed this...what is this show called and where can I see it??

As for Mr Madden, I find it best just to ignore him. I mean it's fair enough that he doesn't like TNA, but to go on & on & on & on & on about it is just annoying. I like TNA, I understand what they are trying to do with this "ECW" themed PPV and I will watch it and enjoy it just for what it is. I am a fan of hardcore wrestling so this PPV is right up my alley and hopefully the old "ECW" guys can still perform. I think some people take wrestling FAR to seriously and maybe some of you should just take a step back and remind yourselves that it's just entertainment, an enjoyable way to kill a few hours a week, it is not life or death and certainly not worth getting all worked up over.