Live Discussion: One Night Stand 1/6/2008

[Papa Shango]

There hasn't been a Taker/Cena feud has there?

They had a brief fued back I think it was 03, but they both have different gimmicks and mentalities now, plus it's been awhile, so I think we could all live with seeing them go again.

 

[slipnut]

ya like i said hhh has to move over let kennedy hardy as i look at it raw has orton hhh and cena smackdown had edge batista and taker thats the champs and ecw has who ever is around at the time

 

[slipnut]

i wouldnt mind seein kennedy jbl match for the belt or hardy something new

 

[Moon Knight]

He's not being held back, he's simply not ready for a main event push.

I disagree, I am MVP fan and think he has all the tools to get a shot. He is wasting away in the midcard fighting people beneath him.

Which could be done on RAW OR SD!, doesn't matter,

Draft, send Umaga to SD to fued for the title.

which has already been done,

What? Once? Kennedy is ready for a main event push and going against Taker for the title would help him. HHH makes him look weak and a Edge/Kennedy fued wouldn't work just yet.

I would. Foley is old, and crippled, and a match between the two would be ridiculous. If Taker won, people would complain it was predictable. If Foley won, people would complain that Vince is insane, it's not believable for Foley to be able to beat Taker nowadays.

It wasn't believable back then either. It's just a filler fued between major fueds to quiet Foley's fans. And Foley is still ok, he can work a passable match once and a while..Which is more than JBL can do.

ALSO been done to death over the years. They've fought with each other against each other, they've been tag champs together. They've wrestled each other in almost every possible premise known in the wrestling business.

In what? 5 years which was the last PPV between them at Wrestlemania 19. Austin/Rock has been done to death but people still pay to see it.

I don't count that 2006 Punjabi Prison match because both deserve better and it was way too brief, I mean Show replaced that Pile of crap Khali. After that I wanted one more between them done right.

Vince isn't too stupid to see them, he HAS seen them, and so has everybody else.

False. Vince has yet to see how to book him right, and rather than try to book him right he stripped him and fired him (Kayfabe). Vince lacks the creative insight to make fueds and title runs work anymore, and the ratings and pissed fans back that up. If anybody should retire it's Vinny.

This is WWE's biggest problem. ALL their talent has fueded with each other over the course of the last ten years or so. There is nothing new left to see until Kennedy, MVP, and CM Punk break into the main event and HHH, HBK, and Taker finally call it quits. Yes, it would suck to see such talented men leave, but there's nothing left for them to do but collect paychecks and title belts.

2 of the are ready now and CM Punk is boring as hell. Can he draw a dime? The man has no charisma and a title run with him would fail. MVP and Kennedy are ready now, and there is no reason not to put Kennedy against a huge star like Taker or HHH and win the belt. HBK doesn't need to go right now, and he doesn't want or need another belt as he had his 200+ day run, he is just putting over young guys now and that works for him, which is what HHH should do and Taker had done. There is lots of talent there, Vince just doesn't know how to use them, and the brand split has limited fueds. But as I have said a million times, Vince is a moron and needs to go.

 

[Moon Knight]

i would have loved to see cm punk come out tonight and take edge out after he won that would have been awsome

Yeah, if Punk wasn't boring as hell. Atleast Edge has charisma too match his in ring skills and can draw heat.

 

[bige69er]

Hardy v Umaga : Decent match. Nothing special. I personaly think the ending was done terrible by not showing Hardy's impact, it ruined the product. Overall, 5/10

Singapore Cane - Big Show v Morrison v Chavo v Dreamer v Punk : The worst match of the night and the outcome was blaintily obvious. Overall, 3/10

First Blood - JBL v John Cena : Pretty entertaining match. I thought it was done well. I loved the ending and it was one of the best matches of the PPV. Overall, 7.5/10

"I Quit Match" - Beth Pheonix v Melina : First of all, Melina is the finest chick I have ever seen in my life. With that out of the way, it was a really good diva match. I thought the best part was when one of Melina's papparazzi fell. Overall, 6/10.

Stretcher Match - Batista v Shawn Michaels : A pretty good match. Nothing extraordinary, I thought HBK would win but he didn't. Overall, 7/10

Last Man Standing for the WWE Championship - Triple H v Randy Orton : Not a good match at all. It didn't last very long at all with a shit ending. I am mad b/c Orton didn't win and now hes hurt. I hate HHH and I think the match sucked. Overall, 2/10

TLC for the World Heavyeight Championship - Edge v Undertaker : The best match of the night and the first one to go very extreme. A lot of great action and I hate that Taker's gone (he'll be back), but I love Edge and glad he won. Pretty emotional when Taker left, and I thought he was going to cry as he left, but it was easily the best match of the night. Overall, 9/10

Overall, the PPV wasnt't terrible. Better than Judgment Day. I think it sucked that we didn't see Y2J wrestle, because he is the best in the WWE. But, overall I give One Night Stand 6.5/10

Oh yeah, WZ editors, dont block me for spaming again. Youve done it 3 times and I have no clue why. If it was for cussing, well I read replies everyday that have the F word and stuff, so dont screw me over

 

[Papa Shango]

I disagree, I am MVP fan and think he has all the tools to get a shot. He is wasting away in the midcard fighting people beneath him.

I like MVP too, I'm just not sure that he's ready to be in the main event. Maybe it's because he's been fed to Batista a few too many times this year. But MVP has just lost the US Championship. He needs to beat of few of the guys vying for that title before moving up the roster. It's like when King Booker couldn't win the US title, so he won the World Heavyweight title instead. It just doesn't make much sense to move up the roster after having suffered several losses lower on the card. Now, if MVP were to start winning again, then maybe in six months or so I could see him wrestling for the World title at a smaller PPV, like No Mercy. But if you mean push MVP into the title picture next Friday night, then no way.

Draft, send Umaga to SD to fued for the title.

I guess so, but the way I see it, Umaga would have to come out on top in the fued, at least at first, and have a world title reign. But he doesn't seem the least bit ready for the world title, at least form a booking standpoint. It's all about natural progression. It would make no sense for Umaga to come out on the losing end of a match with Jeff Hardy, then move to SD! and immediately wrestle Undertaker for the Heavyweight title.

What? Once? Kennedy is ready for a main event push and going against Taker for the title would help him. HHH makes him look weak and a Edge/Kennedy fued wouldn't work just yet.

They had a fued lasted the last portion of 2006, which resulted in, I believe, three PPV matches, including a First Blood match and a Last Ride match. Personally, I had my fill, and I'd like to wait awhile until I see it again. Maybe when Kennedy has been built up a bit. I agree that HHH makes him look weak, for now, but you can't tell me that you're not wholeheartedly expecting Trips to change his attitude once Vince thinks for himself and decides to make Kennedy champion. THEN HHH will be first in line to volunteer to do the job, making it look like his idea all along. So, EVENTUALLY, Kennedy WILL beat Triple H. I also agree that a Kennedy/Edge fued wouldn't work right now. It WOULD have worked, had they turned Kennedy face LAST year and capitalized on the events surrounding the MITB contract. But now that opprtunity has passed, and WWE needs to start a stroyline from scratch in order to make it work.

It wasn't believable back then either. It's just a filler fued between major fueds to quiet Foley's fans. And Foley is still ok, he can work a passable match once and a while..Which is more than JBL can do.

His last great match was against Edge at WM22 two and a half year's ago (I never saw his match at ONS 06, so I can't testify to the quality.) That match was only great due to some truly gory stunts, and great facial storytelling by Edge. So unless Foley and Taker go at it in some form of gimmick match that NEVER fails to please, then I don't see any money in it, ESPECIALLY if you still have Taker as your champion. There should never be a filler fued when it comes to the World Title, at least that's IMO.

In what? 5 years which was the last PPV between them at Wrestlemania 19. Austin/Rock has been done to death but people still pay to see it.

Because Austin/Rock was GOOD. Despite the fact that you KNOW that Undertaker and Big Show have gone at it many many times, how many of their matches stand out clearly in your mind as GOOD matches?

False. Vince has yet to see how to book him right, and rather than try to book him right he stripped him and fired him (Kayfabe). Vince lacks the creative insight to make fueds and title runs work anymore, and the ratings and pissed fans back that up. If anybody should retire it's Vinny.

Maybe. A new captain at the helm could possibly make things better. But think of who the new captain WOULD be if Vince were to retire. It would be another McMahon, most likely Stephanie or Triple H. Not as enticing when you think of it that way, is it?

2 of the are ready now and CM Punk is boring as hell. Can he draw a dime? The man has no charisma and a title run with him would fail. MVP and Kennedy are ready now, and there is no reason not to put Kennedy against a huge star like Taker or HHH and win the belt. HBK doesn't need to go right now, and he doesn't want or need another belt as he had his 200+ day run, he is just putting over young guys now and that works for him, which is what HHH should do and Taker had done. There is lots of talent there, Vince just doesn't know how to use them, and the brand split has limited fueds. But as I have said a million times, Vince is a moron and needs to go.

I also agree that two are ready now, but we disagree on which two. While agree that Punk tends to be a bit boring, the general audiences eat him up. I worked at an amusement park, and of all the WWE merchandise I'd see, CM Punk merchandise was in the top 3-5, behind only Cena, and DX (and HHH and HBK, if you want to include their individual merch seperately.) And that was LAST year. Punk is bigger this year, and one of the most over wrestlers with the general audience. He makes money... a lot of it. Therefore, he should be higher up on the roster. Everyone knows how I feel about Kennedy. Hell, I'm the president of the fan club. And I already told you that I feel that MVP is still one of "Not Yet Ready for Primetime" players. Now that Regal is gone, I see no reason why WWE shouldn't hotshot Kennedy's push, and give him the title at Summerslam. HBK DOES do the right thing when it comes to putter over the younger guys, but the last guy he did that for was Kennedy back in January, and I'm not sure if Kennedy came off lookinf as good as he could have. Since then, HBK has wrestled the other top guys in an EC, wrestled Ric Flair and won, wrestled Batista, and won, wreslted Y2J, and won, and tonight, returned the favor for Batista. He's not wrestling the young guys lately. Taker just gave Edge, a young guy, the future top heel of the company, the rub of the lifetime. For maximum effect, Taker should retire now and never come back full time again. I don't know if Vince needs to GO, but he should once again start to trust the ideas of people other than himself.

 

[Papa Shango]

Hardy v Umaga : Decent match. Nothing special. I personaly think the ending was done terrible by not showing Hardy's impact, it ruined the product. Overall, 5/10

Agreed. The ending was a bit cheesy. But each guy looked pretty good, and got some strong offense in. I don't think both guys came off looking good. 6/10

Singapore Cane - Big Show v Morrison v Chavo v Dreamer v Punk : The worst match of the night and the outcome was blaintily obvious. Overall, 3/10

What are you talking about?! That match was great. Thouroughly entertaining. I mean, what do you expect from this kind of match? A mat-based classic? Great psychology with the other four men taking out Big Show early, then pairing off into pairs who have been fueding recently (Morrison vs. Dreamer; Punk vs. Chavo). Then we got to see Shawn Merriman hit Chavo with a cane. It looked to me like Big Show got busted the hard way by those steps, and if so, it brought a whole new dynamic to the match. And the winner, Big Show, came off looking strong and a worthy opponent for the champion. AND Mike Adamle didn't make a COMPLETE ass out of himself. I thought he did rather well. And when he DID start to mess up, he'd realize he was stuck, trailed off a little, and let Tazz do the talking until he was comfortable jumping back in. 7.5/10 with a bonus half point for Adamle showing improvement, and NOT saying HAVE MERCY ten times. 8/10
As a side note, if play-by-play doesn't work out, Adamle has a future in backstage segments. First his appearance on The Dirt Sheet, now tonight. Adamle actually stole the spotlight from John Cena. I didn't even know that was possible. Mike Adamle> Todd Grisham, Big Dick Johnson, and Boogeyman COMBINED.

First Blood - JBL v John Cena : Pretty entertaining match. I thought it was done well. I loved the ending and it was one of the best matches of the PPV. Overall, 7.5/10

Overall, I was disappointed in this match. The ref was annoying, the action was choppy. I mean, if you're trying to make a man bleed, you're going to be all over him til his blood is on your knuckles. You're not gonna let the ref check him after every damn punch. This match made the HHH/Regal one from earlier in the year look classic in comparison. But, the action did improve as the match progressed, with some interesting swerves, such as JBL whipping out a chain from inside his towel, or the bullwhip. The Chain-STFU was an original way to get the opponent to bleed (internal rupture). But JBL released the blood capsule WAY too early. However, I have used fake blood before, and that shit can taste NASTY, so I completely understand why JBL spit that shit out so quick. 5/10

"I Quit Match" - Beth Pheonix v Melina : First of all, Melina is the finest chick I have ever seen in my life. With that out of the way, it was a really good diva match. I thought the best part was when one of Melina's papparazzi fell. Overall, 6/10.

I thought this made the Women of the WWE look really good, and showcased a side of the girls that we rarely see. It looked like more of a Submission MAtch than an I Quit match, but both women did a good job, and Beth showed off some moves that makes put the mens' repetoires to shame. Dean Malenko is a godsend to the WWE. 7/10

Stretcher Match - Batista v Shawn Michaels : A pretty good match. Nothing extraordinary, I thought HBK would win but he didn't. Overall, 7/10

I pretty much agree. I enjoyed the story they told during the match, but I don't understand what the point was in having Y2J come out TWICE. Batista mauled HBK. I really think this could be a turning point for him, and bring a little edge back to his character, after being so one-dimensional for so long. 6.5/10

Last Man Standing for the WWE Championship - Triple H v Randy Orton : Not a good match at all. It didn't last very long at all with a shit ending. I am mad b/c Orton didn't win and now hes hurt. I hate HHH and I think the match sucked. Overall, 2/10

I didn't bother to watch this match. I'm essentially boycotting HHH as champ, so I went make a sandwhich instead. When I came back, Orton had the steps. I turn away for a sec, I look back, and Orton is injured. rating n/a

TLC for the World Heavyeight Championship - Edge v Undertaker : The best match of the night and the first one to go very extreme. A lot of great action and I hate that Taker's gone (he'll be back), but I love Edge and glad he won. Pretty emotional when Taker left, and I thought he was going to cry as he left, but it was easily the best match of the night. Overall, 9/10

I agree. I love TLC matches, their my favorite match. Plenty of action, lots of near wins. Parts seemed a little sloppy, but odds are they were stretching, seeing as the previous match ended so abruptly. I really alowed myself to get drawn into the match and not know who was going to win. Undertaker's exit was done REALLY WELL. It really has me believing that Taker may be gone for good. 8/10

Overall, really good PPV. Much better than Judgement Day, which I felt was a little hit-or-miss. And now I'm really looking foward to the next couple of weeks. BUT... where was MRRRRRRRRRRRRR... KENNEDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
















... KENNEDYYYYYYYYYYYYY???
Overall- 7/10

 

[Moon Knight]

I like MVP too, I'm just not sure that he's ready to be in the main event. Maybe it's because he's been fed to Batista a few too many times this year. But MVP has just lost the US Championship. He needs to beat of few of the guys vying for that title before moving up the roster. It's like when King Booker couldn't win the US title, so he won the World Heavyweight title instead. It just doesn't make much sense to move up the roster after having suffered several losses lower on the card. Now, if MVP were to start winning again, then maybe in six months or so I could see him wrestling for the World title at a smaller PPV, like No Mercy. But if you mean push MVP into the title picture next Friday night, then no way.

Not this friday but later this year. I would have had him or Kennedy win the King of the ring..BS Regal won it then got suspended. MVP can be hotshoted to the Main Event in some good higher up fueds with the likes of Edge.

They had a fued lasted the last portion of 2006, which resulted in, I believe, three PPV matches, including a First Blood match and a Last Ride match. Personally, I had my fill, and I'd like to wait awhile until I see it again. Maybe when Kennedy has been built up a bit. I agree that HHH makes him look weak, for now, but you can't tell me that you're not wholeheartedly expecting Trips to change his attitude once Vince thinks for himself and decides to make Kennedy champion. THEN HHH will be first in line to volunteer to do the job, making it look like his idea all along. So, EVENTUALLY, Kennedy WILL beat Triple H. I also agree that a Kennedy/Edge fued wouldn't work right now. It WOULD have worked, had they turned Kennedy face LAST year and capitalized on the events surrounding the MITB contract. But now that opprtunity has passed, and WWE needs to start a stroyline from scratch in order to make it work.

That is going onto 2 years now. Kennedy has a different mindset now, the difference is that wasn't for the title. You can always go back to fueds as long as you don't over do them. HHH makes Kennedy look weak and I don't see that ending anytime soon. Kennedy needs to go Face while I think Taker is best as a heel. Kennedy was a mid-carder when he went against Taker the first time, Just like Cena/Taker may work so will this, mainly due to the difference in this point in Kennedy's career.

For Kennedy/Edge to work both need to go in the same direction. Meaning Kennedy needs to get on roll first.

His last great match was against Edge at WM22 two and a half year's ago (I never saw his match at ONS 06, so I can't testify to the quality.) That match was only great due to some truly gory stunts, and great facial storytelling by Edge. So unless Foley and Taker go at it in some form of gimmick match that NEVER fails to please, then I don't see any money in it, ESPECIALLY if you still have Taker as your champion. There should never be a filler fued when it comes to the World Title, at least that's IMO.

Classics do profit, mostly if Foley revisits his Mankind gimmick. I am high on nostalgia so I do see money in one more time types of fueds. Put those 2 in a gimmick match like Hell in a Cell and it can work as nobody does spots like Foley. Filler fueds do work sometimes, they are just small fueds until somebody else is ready for the push. Like if MVP needs to finish his fued with Edge before a major program with Taker, what do you do with Taker in the meantime? A filler fued is just something to keep the champ occupied for a month or two. Sometimes the Champ is a trans champ, like Shiek.

Because Austin/Rock was GOOD. Despite the fact that you KNOW that Undertaker and Big Show have gone at it many many times, how many of their matches stand out clearly in your mind as GOOD matches?

I kinda liked them all. Mainly because few people can work well with Show due to his size.

Maybe. A new captain at the helm could possibly make things better. But think of who the new captain WOULD be if Vince were to retire. It would be another McMahon, most likely Stephanie or Triple H. Not as enticing when you think of it that way, is it?

Steph no, but as long as HHH retires I can see it working if they split the control. I have heard the way the company will be split when Vince/Linda step down.

I also agree that two are ready now, but we disagree on which two. While agree that Punk tends to be a bit boring, the general audiences eat him up. I worked at an amusement park, and of all the WWE merchandise I'd see, CM Punk merchandise was in the top 3-5, behind only Cena, and DX (and HHH and HBK, if you want to include their individual merch seperately.) And that was LAST year. Punk is bigger this year, and one of the most over wrestlers with the general audience. He makes money... a lot of it. Therefore, he should be higher up on the roster.

It can vary, but everytime I have ever seen Punk in the ring I could hear crickets. Right now he is boring and works stiff. If you saw his OVW work under Heyman he can be just as charismatic as Kennedy. Right now I don't think he has the charisma to be champion.

Everyone knows how I feel about Kennedy. Hell, I'm the president of the fan club. And I already told you that I feel that MVP is still one of "Not Yet Ready for Primetime" players. Now that Regal is gone, I see no reason why WWE shouldn't hotshot Kennedy's push, and give him the title at Summerslam.

Agreed. But I doubt HHH is going down anytime soon as he doesn't like Kennedy. He has a lot of pull. But I do agree he needs to step aside and put over Kennedy. I am still sold on a Face Kennedy vs a Heel Cena fued.

HBK DOES do the right thing when it comes to putter over the younger guys, but the last guy he did that for was Kennedy back in January, and I'm not sure if Kennedy came off lookinf as good as he could have. Since then, HBK has wrestled the other top guys in an EC, wrestled Ric Flair and won, wrestled Batista, and won, wreslted Y2J, and won, and tonight, returned the favor for Batista. He's not wrestling the young guys lately.

Flair was an awesome match, I couldn't have picked a better man. Y2J was BS, HBK should have put him over. But right now he needs some fueds against older guys, the point behind him is to put over younger talent and there is no talent left for him to put over until MVP is on the same show. Right now RAW doesn't have the young talent for HBK to face. After a period in time you go thru everybody.

Taker just gave Edge, a young guy, the future top heel of the company, the rub of the lifetime. For maximum effect, Taker should retire now and never come back full time again. I don't know if Vince needs to GO, but he should once again start to trust the ideas of people other than himself.

I am not so sure this was Taker as much as it was Vince. This was Vince's idea and Taker just went along with it. I am a HUGE Taker fan and am not pleased that he never got the long title run he deserved. There was no reason why Taker couldn't have held it for a long time and have this match happen at Survivor Series instead of ONS. Taker debuted there and I always wanted to see it end there.

Vince has lost it, he doesn't listen to fans or the right people anymore. He his in his 60's and he needs to seriously look at retiring. It looks about time for it.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Shock TV my ass. I saw this coming from a mile away, I was just hoping it would change. Did you miss the stories about Vince thinking Edge is a better champion than a challenger and Taker might be taking time off? This was telegraphed.

You gotta be kiddin DIAR. Look at the thread leading up to this, in the PPV section. Every FOOL and there mother was like "ZOMG no waaaay Taker is gonna loose now that they said he is done if he does!!!"

People are morons. They were all shocked. Shock TV.

 

[Moon Knight]

You gotta be kiddin DIAR. Look at the thread leading up to this, in the PPV section. Every FOOL and there mother was like "ZOMG no waaaay Taker is gonna loose now that they said he is done if he does!!!"

People are morons. They were all shocked. Shock TV.

After I started putting things together it was obvious he would lose. McMahon stripped him of the title because he didn't think Edge was a good challenger and Taker needed great challengers, then there was the recent story about Taker taking some time off. It was obvious he would lose. Not Shock TV when you telegraph the ending, anybody could see it. I know I did, not my fault a few did not.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

More than a few bro. Look in the thread. 90% of everyone was wailing about how obvious it was that Taker was gonna win. It was driving me insane. Obviously I wasnt the only one who could easily and clearly see Edge was going to win. But I think that makes two of us.

 

[Moon Knight]

More than a few bro. Look in the thread. 90% of everyone was wailing about how obvious it was that Taker was gonna win. It was driving me insane. Obviously I wasnt the only one who could easily and clearly see Edge was going to win. But I think that makes two of us.

I can only speak for me, It was not shock TV as I saw it coming. I am not with them, I knew it was going to happen I was just hoping it wasn't. Too bad I made the mistake of voting for Taker in WZPC and it closed before I could change to Edge. They just may not have seen the same stuff I did, the stories just gave it away.

 

[Joker ' Ferreira]

I said that Edge was going to win it, no one believed me, now I guess I was right.

4 weeks from now Undertaker will be back to RAW and that's great, I hope CM Punk goes to SmackDown! to feud with Edge for the World Title.

One Night Stand wasn't bad, but it wasn't clearly the best PPV since Wrestlemania.