Let's Talk Tipping

[Loveless]

A little less than $14.75 an hour, about $66 in tips. AKA: ***** got paid!

Shit, never mind, the Euro is a little less than the British pound in currency translations. Still, a shit ton more than any American in his position would make.

9.5 Euros
8.16 pounds
12.66 dollars

Which is basically why tipping isn't big over here. Minimum wage means restaurant staff don't get paid less than anyone else. Ireland is a pretty expensive place when it comes to food.

 

[Stormtrooper]

At the end of the day, if I'm pleased with the food and the service, I'll tip reasonably well. If it is really good, I'll tip generously. But if the food and/or the service is poor, I've got no problem whatsoever with tipping poorly or not at all. The whole idea of feeling compelled to tip or I'm an asshole, to hell with that. And having the gratuity automatically added on, I'm dead set against that.

Take the experience Dave mentioned. Why should they get a tip? Slow being seated and poorly prepared food. In other words, bad food and bad service. Why should they receive a tip, not to mention 30% and added automatically. If that was me, I guess I would pay it but rest assured, they'd know of my displeasure, as would everyone in earshot or anyone else I knew planning to go there another day. And I'd never go back.

I bolded the portions that I found rather wrong.

Why would the actual food affect your tip? The tip is something that is exclusively to the SERVER. The server doesn't cook your food. You can have amazing service at a place with shitty food, why would the server get shafted then? She did her job great.

You should judge the servers based solely on their service, not the products they are serving (at least the ones they have no control over, as servers usually do the non-alcoholic drinks).

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Can you translate that to real money?

Made around €120 for one days work with an additional €42. And €42 is a small nights tip for me, most I've made is €114, came close to breaking it a couple times now but a few euro off.

 

[Captain Morgan Freeman]

Made around €120 for one days work with an additional €42. And €42 is a small nights tip for me, most I've made is €114, came close to breaking it a couple times now but a few euro off.

Where the fuck do you work?? Irish people are terrible for tipping.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Where the fuck do you work?? Irish people are terrible for tipping.

Dublin, worked in The Big Tree yesterday but it's not my contractual employer, that would be a pub on Dame Street (not Sweeneys, wouldn't work there if they paid me €15.00 an hour with the amount of freaks that come out of there.) We're in every Dublin tour book as a "must visit" pub, Michael Collins used to drink in the back bar so its considered a historical landmark of sorts. And yes, we're horrid for tips, luckily Europeans make up for it and Americans owe me money for constantly asking me questions such as, "so do you know any Keogh's? My ancestors were Keogh's so that makes me part Irish."

No, no it doesn't!

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I think my problem would be this idea of generally accepted. The process has been completely inverted.

Servers used to tip the customer?

The idea behind tipping is motivation of people that provide mundane services to do a good job. I think it is an alright concept that has been perverted so far that it now is used primarily to benefit everyone except the actual consumer and the only motivation is also on that consumer not to appear cheap.

I haven't seen The History of Tipping on the History Channel. How was the system different before it became "perverted"?

If consumers are only motivated out of concern not to appear cheap that is on the consumer and their hang ups. Maybe if they are so concerned about looking cheap, it is because they are cheap.

The problem is that the tip became expected without any justification.

Huh? So you go to restaurants and you get charged for ordering and getting your own food and drink? Do you bus your own tables and make your own drinks?

The tip getters have no desire to change the system to something like minimum wage yet they become indignant when they get bad tips.

Why would a documented worker strive to want minimum wage? Wouldn't you get pissed if you didn't get something you feel you deserve?

Your saying a lot of things but I have no idea what you are trying to say.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. A tip isn't a bonus, a bonus comes from your employer.

A tip is an amount of money paid from one party to another that goes beyond base salary. Why does the source matter in this context?

I am suggesting that when they make more than minimum wage in the current system they shouldn't be complaining about facets of it because that is probably more than they are worth.

And there it is. You just have a low opinion of servers and don't want to pay them. Unfortunately others value the job and their food higher than you and you are wasting your time if you think you're going to get anywhere. I've waited tables. In some ways it is harder than the job I do now. Even if it is not hard, when you enter a restaurant it is expected that you will meet the customs that are expected of you. If you don't like that, eat at home.

I think it is almost impossible to work a job where your coworkers have no impact on your performance. This isn't something that only happens to waiters but they sure act like it is.

How much research are you doing on the topic? Are you a restaurant critic on the side? Where are you having these experiences and conversations? What do you expect from a waiter? I get the feeling you enter restaurants looking to be an ass and have things go wrong just so you can be cheap.

If my job kept resulting in me getting less than I was worth then I would go work somewhere else. If once I looked around the job that paid better didn't exist I would realize I was already getting my market value, regardless of how that number came about.

Again, what makes you such an authority on waiters and waitresses? You sound like you are preparing a novel or documentary on the topic but I think your just pulling some expertise out of your ass.

I am not advocating getting rid of tipping. I agree it has a solid purpose. I think most of Europe the standard is more like 10% which is probably a good system in my opinion. In the US the standard is 20% and that is the real issue. It should not be entirely on the consumer to motivate an owners staff.

Nevermind, you're just cheap. Just know that if you pass the wages on to the owner, the cost (which is even higher now because of taxes) will just be paid by the customer.

I was shocked at the amount people tip when I first went to America, even for bad service. KB and I went for a meal one night; the waitress got my order wrong twice and we complained about her to a manager. I eventually just ate the meal that was wrong as KB had finished his food by this point. I therefore could not believe, in my English frame of mind, that he still left her a tip!

Were you in Kentucky? If so, anything ordered beyond a pack of smokes needs to be requested in a drawing.

I also do not understand the attitude some of you have towards those who don't tip - surely your attitude should be aimed at the managers who get away with paying waiters/waitresses so little, rather than the people who choose not to pay for their food AND the salary of the employees?

If I go to Europe and am not educated or abide by the customs, I am looked at as an American heathen. Why can't Americans expect Europeans to abide and be educated to our customs when they come to this country?

 

[HBK-aholic]

If I go to Europe and am not educated or abide by the customs, I am looked at as an American heathen. Why can't Americans expect Europeans to abide and be educated to our customs when they come to this country?

I'm not talking about Europeans; this thread alone proves that there are Americans who do not understand or abide by the 'custom' of tipping, as do the thousands of waitresses who have complained about those who tip badly, or not at all - now unless every one of those customers was a 'European', I don't know what you're getting at here.

Just because someone - American or otherwise - doesn't leave a tip on top of paying for their meal, doesn't make them an asshole.

 

[Captain Morgan Freeman]

Dublin, worked in The Big Tree yesterday but it's not my contractual employer, that would be a pub on Dame Street (not Sweeneys, wouldn't work there if they paid me €15.00 an hour with the amount of freaks that come out of there.) We're in every Dublin tour book as a "must visit" pub, Michael Collins used to drink in the back bar so its considered a historical landmark of sorts. And yes, we're horrid for tips, luckily Europeans make up for it and Americans owe me money for constantly asking me questions such as, "so do you know any Keogh's? My ancestors were Keogh's so that makes me part Irish."

No, no it doesn't!

That reminds i must go back to the big tree soon.
Im head barman for weddings in The landmark hotel in carrick. I have to say the only time ive ever cleared more then €40 in tips is at christmas or when we have Americans in, and the Americans are always great to deal with. The Irish are the complete opposite in that they always try and haggle with you and call you a cunt when you dont take something off the price. On saturday on woman tried to tell me i should take €25 for €28 worth of baby guiness as it was all she had despite the fact i could see her purse was full of €50's.


In regards to America why don't restaurants in America pay waitresses the minimum wage? Is the food that cheap there that they can't afford to?

Personally i think you should be entitled to tip whatever you want rather then there being a set percentage. If im eating at a nice restaurant and the service is good then ill tip about €10. The waiter/waitress would have to be absolutely terrible for me to not tip them and if they are "that" bad they should probably find a job that suits them better anyway.

Adding the tip automatically to the bill is absolutely ridiculous and would stop me ever going back again, the tip should be at the customers discretion and used to reward good service, not as an excuse for a restaurant owner to not pay their employee's.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I'm not talking about Europeans; this thread alone proves that there are Americans who do not understand or abide by the 'custom' of tipping,

At least Europeans can plead ignorance or lack of familiarity but Americans that don't do it are cheap.

as do the thousands of waitresses who have complained about those who tip badly, or not at all

If you do a reasonably good job at something and expect to get paid for it, isn't it also reasonable to complain if you don't get paid? Don't get me wrong, shitty service does not warrant a tip. But I've rarely, if ever, in my mind have ever received such bad service. Getting an order wrong twice is bad but I've never had that experience so I wonder if maybe you're lack of familiarity with Kentuckian culture (like wiping your face with your shirt or marrying your uncle) may have had to do with the mix up?

- now unless every one of those customers was a 'European', I don't know what you're getting at here

I'm just taking this opportunity to point out that Americans have a bad reputation for not following customs in foreign countries when I have found that Europeans aren't exactly the most worldly folk to travel across the pond.
.

Just because someone - American or otherwise - doesn't leave a tip on top of paying for their meal, doesn't make them an asshole.

Kind of does if you receive some semblance of reasonable service in countries where it is customary to tip.

In regards to America why don't restaurants in America pay waitresses the minimum wage?

Ask Shattered, he is a tipping historian.

Is the food that cheap there that they can't afford to?[/QUOTE]

I believe the food is cheaper here than in Europe. We have a ton of farmland and the government subsidizes some foods. However, that isn't why server receive such a low hourly wage. I think it is because the belief is that payng more would remove the incentive to maintain a high level of hospitality.

Personally i think you should be entitled to tip whatever you want rather then there being a set percentage.

Generally you are entitled to tip what you want. It is just customary to tip around 15 to 20% of the pre-tax bill.

If im eating at a nice restaurant and the service is good then ill tip about €10. The waiter/waitress would have to be absolutely terrible for me to not tip them and if they are "that" bad they should probably find a job that suits them better anyway.

Adding the tip automatically to the bill is absolutely ridiculous and would stop me ever going back again, the tip should be at the customers discretion and used to reward good service, not as an excuse for a restaurant owner to not pay their employee's.

But the problem is that large parties can make or break a server's night due to the system that is set up. Most servers can shake off a bad tip or two but if you have to take care of a big group and somehow get the shaft because Shattered or Phatso are picking up the bill you might as well have not come to work that evening. So restaurants reserve the right to charge for that.

 

[HBK-aholic]

At least Europeans can plead ignorance or lack of familiarity but Americans that don't do it are cheap.

If you do a reasonably good job at something and expect to get paid for it, isn't it also reasonable to complain if you don't get paid? Don't get me wrong, shitty service does not warrant a tip. But I've rarely, if ever, in my mind have ever received such bad service. Getting an order wrong twice is bad but I've never had that experience so I wonder if maybe you're lack of familiarity with Kentuckian culture (like wiping your face with your shirt or marrying your uncle) may have had to do with the mix up?

First of all, they do get paid - and at least minimum wage. As I said before, while people like to throw about the $2 an hour figure, the truth is no one actually gets paid that little as, even if tips don't cover it - the company has to.

Once again - maybe people should aim this anger and judgement at the companies who get away with it, instead of the customers.

I'm just taking this opportunity to point out that Americans have a bad reputation for not following customs in foreign countries when I have found that Europeans aren't exactly the most worldly folk to travel across the pond.

Very true; there are Americans who are dicks when abroad and Europeans who are the same. Has nothing to do with this debate, though.

Kind of does if you receive some semblance of reasonable service in countries where it is customary to tip.

Of course it doesn't make someone an asshole. The only people who reasonably believe that is those with a background in the service industry. The truth is, tipping is not mandatory, and opinions differ so widely on the subject, from percentages, to when tipping is appropriate, to even whether to leave one at all that I'm not sure which 'custom' I should be following.

And yes, I do personally tip servers when I'm in the States, but if for whatever reason I didn't, it wouldn't suddenly turn me into an 'asshole'.

 

[hatehabsforever]

I bolded the portions that I found rather wrong.

Why would the actual food affect your tip? The tip is something that is exclusively to the SERVER. The server doesn't cook your food. You can have amazing service at a place with shitty food, why would the server get shafted then? She did her job great.

You should judge the servers based solely on their service, not the products they are serving (at least the ones they have no control over, as servers usually do the non-alcoholic drinks).

The funny thing here is, I find myself agreeing with you to a significant degree. The quality of the service and the quality of the food are two separate and distinct entities and as such, one should not be penalized due to incompetence by the other.

Having said that, I doubt my approach will change. The quantity and quality of my tip is dictated by my overall dining experience. At the end of my meal, if I have had a pleasant experience, I will tip accordingly but if my experience was negative along any parameters, my tip decreases and sometimes dramatically. That may be terribly unfair to the waitress who gets penalized by a poor performance by the cook, but that's the breaks. If my meal is poor, I'm not tipping ver much. Frankly that's pretty rare, but I'm not tipping out of obligation or a feeling of sympathy for the plight of my poor underpaid waiter or waitress.

 

[Барбоса]

I'm not tipping out of obligation or a feeling of sympathy for the plight of my poor underpaid waiter or waitress.

For me, this sums up my thoughts on tipping pretty well. It might seem in certain lights to be asshole-ish but once tipping becomes seen more as an obligation or charity donation then it essentially ceases to be what I would consider tipping. Less a reward for a job well done and more an extra charge that is barely advertised.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

First of all, they do get paid - and at least minimum wage. As I said before, while people like to throw about the $2 an hour figure, the truth is no one actually gets paid that little as, even if tips don't cover it - the company has to.

Why is how much the server gets paid an hour the concern of the customer? Minimum wage sucks. The hourly wage should be no concern of the customer.

Once again - maybe people should aim this anger and judgement at the companies who get away with it, instead of the customers.

They're not getting away with anything. Everyone knows what they are getting in to in the restaurant industry. It's been this way as long as I can remember.

[/QUOTE]
Very true; there are Americans who are dicks when abroad and Europeans who are the same. Has nothing to do with this debate, though.[/QUOTE]

Consider the topic dropped.

Of course it doesn't make someone an asshole. The only people who reasonably believe that is those with a background in the service industry.

There are millions of people with no experience in the restaurant industry who follow the custom. You're saying none of them are ok with it?

The truth is, tipping is not mandatory,

Agreed

and opinions differ so widely on the subject, from percentages, to when tipping is appropriate, to even whether to leave one at all that I'm not sure which 'custom' I should be following.

Being confused is not a good reason to avoid doing something. If you're confused Google it. I'm sure there is some Molly Manners or some type of etiquette that you can easily find to end any confusion you have. Until then, remember that you are on a similar side of this argument as Shattered, by default that makes you wrong.

And yes, I do personally tip servers when I'm in the States, but if for whatever reason I didn't, it wouldn't suddenly turn me into an 'asshole'.

No, but I would hope you have a reasonable reason for not tipping beyond dissatisfaction or confusion with the system, what hourly wage the owner pays the server, or how much Mac N Cheese kb drops on his lap.

 

[shattered dreams]

Servers used to tip the customer?

Employers used to pay their employees.

I haven't seen The History of Tipping on the History Channel. How was the system different before it became "perverted"?

They didn't start showing their kankles for tips until 1869.

If consumers are only motivated out of concern not to appear cheap that is on the consumer and their hang ups. Maybe if they are so concerned about looking cheap, it is because they are cheap.

Maybe waiters appear to be entitled ingrates because they are entitled ingrates. Monkey bars, half past noon, be there or be square.

Huh? So you go to restaurants and you get charged for ordering and getting your own food and drink? Do you bus your own tables and make your own drinks?

I'd happily walk over and open a beer and walk back for a dollar a pop. I have never argued that waiters don't deserve to be paid minimum wage. I just don't believe in this cockamamie scheme they have going on where they cry like little girls over bad nights when it is irrelevant if you understand what an average is and how the current system is beneficial to them. The vast majority of stores I go to charge me one price for a good or service. Why are waiters special when there is nothing special about what they do?

Why would a documented worker strive to want minimum wage? Wouldn't you get pissed if you didn't get something you feel you deserve?

Why do they constantly quote their "pay" as less than minimum wage if not getting that isn't a goal? Oh right, that whole pity party scam they have going. I might get pissed but if I was carrying plates and making more than minimum wage I would not be pissed because I would feel I was getting more than I deserve based on market value. That isn't to say I wouldn't need more but that shouldn't be everyone else's problem. It isn't the consumers holding the waiters back, you lying crybabies would get paid less (by owners) if it wasn't for our collective generosity but you parasitic swine still want even more.

Your saying a lot of things but I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Big girls need loving too. Duh.

A tip is an amount of money paid from one party to another that goes beyond base salary. Why does the source matter in this context?

It matters because the inmates are running the asylum. Through collective douchebaggery you perverteers are determining your own beyond salary take. Also, according to the IRS I have to hand over 40% of any bonus I get to that cocky wanker Uncle Sam, if you get more than 8% on average Uncle Sam doesn't even have to know about it and I haven't read my tipping novela recently but I think that money is just taxed at your effective tax rate. I'd say the source matters a whole lot in that context

And there it is. You just have a low opinion of servers and don't want to pay them. Unfortunately others value the job and their food higher than you and you are wasting your time if you think you're going to get anywhere. I've waited tables. In some ways it is harder than the job I do now. Even if it is not hard, when you enter a restaurant it is expected that you will meet the customs that are expected of you. If you don't like that, eat at home.

I tend to operate by this, tip 20% when I go out but don't go out much because I think the experience is overpriced. As far as low opinion, I think it is mostly a low opinion of what the skill set is worth. Anything about the individuals is merely observational musings. There is a reason many people have their first job in food service, it doesn't take much skill. That and young people are ripe for exploitation via manipulation. Most of my observations are about 35 year old single mothers that used to be addicted to crack but now are just addicted to crackheads but they really need my money more than I do because they played ******* with the football team in high school while I was working to get into college.

How much research are you doing on the topic? Are you a restaurant critic on the side? Where are you having these experiences and conversations? What do you expect from a waiter? I get the feeling you enter restaurants looking to be an ass and have things go wrong just so you can be cheap.

Mildly interesting aside, the only research I did led to me discovering I was actually overtipping because I had been suckered in by the whining propagandists to tip post tax. Then I found out that was probably because I had been in the city for most of my tipping years and that is how they have us trained. I expect the waiter to not act like they are entitled to more money than they signed up for. I might start being cheap though, sounds like more fun.

Again, what makes you such an authority on waiters and waitresses? You sound like you are preparing a novel or documentary on the topic but I think your just pulling some expertise out of your ass.

I realize most waitresses can't read but what did that statement have to do with anything specific to food service. It was a general comment about jobs and pay.

Nevermind, you're just cheap. Just know that if you pass the wages on to the owner, the cost (which is even higher now because of taxes) will just be paid by the customer.

Between your research study, which I assume consisted of rigourously polling as many people as the owners at the places you used to work, and my historical writings we could put Barbosa out of business. Now I have to pay the waiters salary and help the owner avoid taxes? Are we still in America?

Ask Shattered, he is a tipping historian.

The trick is to only put enough in that you are covered by Florida's she was asking for it law.

But the problem is that large parties can make or break a server's night due to the system that is set up. Most servers can shake off a bad tip or two but if you have to take care of a big group and somehow get the shaft because Shattered or Phatso are picking up the bill you might as well have not come to work that evening. So restaurants reserve the right to charge for that.

How many people get paid nightly? What happened to that incentivizing thing you were just talking about for why you don't get paid "enough?" In this scenario you get paid more than enough without any incentive but that is justified because you can't do the math and see the plus nights cover the bad ones?

Did the consumer set up that system? The owners devised it, the employees agreed to it and the consumers get blamed for it.

TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!!!!!!! Is this the reason why restaurant folk stay up late teabagging each other? Find out in my next book Mein ***** of Meat.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Aside: I just had a waitress this evening get mad at me because I didn't add an extra tip to the automatic gratuity. It's really hard to defend waiters for the shit treatment they get in the restaurant industry when some of them are just shitty, awful people.

 

[.]

Where the fuck do you work?? Irish people are terrible for tipping.

The only tip i ever got from my Summer working in a pub was when i listened to some nut job tell me about his being abducted by aliens.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Why is how much the server gets paid an hour the concern of the customer? Minimum wage sucks. The hourly wage should be no concern of the customer.

But it IS a concern for them - You do realise that the main reason people give FOR tipping is the 'poor wage a server gets per hour'? This thread alone shows that. If it ISN'T anything to do with tipping, why do people tip? Why do they only tip waiters, and not the hundreds of other jobs people work hard at, regardless of how much that person earns?

Serious questions.

They're not getting away with anything. Everyone knows what they are getting in to in the restaurant industry. It's been this way as long as I can remember.

I'm not one who believes that just because a system is 'old' it isn't broken. The truth is, companies get away with paying a rubbish baseline wage in the hope the customer will pay the excess charge, instead of the restaurant. That's like going to a grocery store, paying for my goods, then paying the cashier who rang them through for me as well. And somehow, the bosses have people not only agreeing to that, but also defending it? Very smart.

Though surely, by this frame of mind, servers know what they're getting into, so can't complain when they don't get a tip?

There are millions of people with no experience in the restaurant industry who follow the custom. You're saying none of them are ok with it?

Okay with it? I'm sure many people are. Feel as strongly as calling someone an asshole on the sole basis that they don't tip? I'd say the majority of people who feel that strongly is based on personal experiences.

Being confused is not a good reason to avoid doing something. If you're confused Google it. I'm sure there is some Molly Manners or some type of etiquette that you can easily find to end any confusion you have. Until then, remember that you are on a similar side of this argument as Shattered, by default that makes you wrong.

I don't avoid it; I usually ask KB who tells me the 'correct amount'. Still, that's just his opinion on what is 'customary' - there are so many different variations of 'customary' that for someone to say not following a 'custom' makes you an asshole, when people can't even agree on what the official custom is, is confusing and a little silly.

No, but I would hope you have a reasonable reason for not tipping beyond dissatisfaction or confusion with the system, what hourly wage the owner pays the server, or how much Mac N Cheese kb drops on his lap.

Again - what do I tip for, then? To say thank you for doing their job? To incentivise them to do a good one?

 

[The Butcher]

Best thing to do is to tip with these:

 

[Mac Attack]

When this thread eventually unfolds into a thread about cow tipping I can discuss that pretty well.

Until then I tip what I tip because I decide to. If people don't decide to it doesn't bug me nor involves me so I don't care. We all decide to live life the way we want to. At the end of the day only god judges us. And if you don't believe in God, well then I guess continue to YOLO.

 

[Nate DaMac]

When this thread eventually unfolds into a thread about cow tipping I can discuss that pretty well.

Until then I tip what I tip because I decide to. If people don't decide to it doesn't bug me nor involves me so I don't care. We all decide to live life the way we want to. At the end of the day only god judges us. And if you don't believe in God, well then I guess continue to YOLO.

I hope your kids never learn how to read.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

That....I....fuck, I've no words how to respond to that.

 

[Sparky]

The guy who cuts my hair is making a killing off my tips, deserves it too. He doesn't speak english so i just point at his hair, then point to mine, chuck him a $20 and sit in the chair. <3 that guy.

to be fair, that's Melbourne as a general.

I only tip taxi drivers. and that's only because waiting for them to find coins to give me back is awkward and takes too long. so I just tell them to keep the change. other then that, there's no place around me that takes tips. if there's a donation jar at the counter I''ll put my silver change in it. Change sucks and it's for a good cause.

 

[M]

You don't chuck your change towards your myki Sparky? If you're a melbourner who uses public transport everyday like me then those 20c coins can often mean the difference between an easy ride home or breaking a $50 at an overpriced Melbourne central cafeteria joint. Stupid myki's taking over my life, living one station away from zone 1 is fucking annoying, do I want to walk the extra 2km and save $2.50 or do I use that $2.50 and save my feet the trouble??? Life's hard man.

Melbourne's not just people who can't speak English, there's also shitloads of hipster uni students, late trams and let's not forget the eerie feeling that despite what the weatherman says there's always that little chance the clouds could say fuck you and proceed to flood the place in summer.
Lovely place though.

 

[IHW]

It's great to tip at fast food restaurants. They hardly ever expect it.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Employers used to pay their employees.

They didn't start showing their kankles for tips until 1869.

Maybe waiters appear to be entitled ingrates because they are entitled ingrates. Monkey bars, half past noon, be there or be square.

I'd happily walk over and open a beer and walk back for a dollar a pop. I have never argued that waiters don't deserve to be paid minimum wage. I just don't believe in this cockamamie scheme they have going on where they cry like little girls over bad nights when it is irrelevant if you understand what an average is and how the current system is beneficial to them.

I worked in the business for about three years. I heard some complaints but you are really dramatizing things. Where in you experience have you seen this 'crying' you speak of.

The vast majority of stores I go to charge me one price for a good or service. Why are waiters special when there is nothing special about what they do?

It's called the hospitality industry and they don't use the same model as everyone else. It's kind of been successful in the US, you should look it up.

Why do they constantly quote their "pay" as less than minimum wage if not getting that isn't a goal?

Examples?

Oh right, that whole pity party scam they have going. I might get pissed but if I was carrying plates and making more than minimum wage I would not be pissed because I would feel I was getting more than I deserve based on market value. That isn't to say I wouldn't need more but that shouldn't be everyone else's problem. It isn't the consumers holding the waiters back, you lying crybabies would get paid less (by owners) if it wasn't for our collective generosity but you parasitic swine still want even more.

What pity party scam? I really don't know where you are coming from.

And I haven't waited table in 15 years. I am a parasitic swine for far more reasons than my waiting experience years ago.

You talk about market value but aren't the wages earned transaction by transaction via tipping about as free market as you can get. The consumer actually has say in the amount they pay.

Big girls need loving too. Duh.

It matters because the inmates are running the asylum. Through collective douchebaggery you perverteers are determining your own beyond salary take.

But I thought servers were stupid, you make them sound like geniuses who set their own wages. Which is it? Stupid or smart?

Also, according to the IRS I have to hand over 40% of any bonus I get to that cocky wanker Uncle Sam, if you get more than 8% on average Uncle Sam doesn't even have to know about it and I haven't read my tipping novela recently but I think that money is just taxed at your effective tax rate. I'd say the source matters a whole lot in that context

I'm sorry, what line on the 1040 says bonuses are taxed at something beyond W-2 wages? And why should a servers tax bracket determine their tip. You can lie on your taxes as well as anyone else.

I tend to operate by this, tip 20% when I go out but don't go out much because I think the experience is overpriced. As far as low opinion, I think it is mostly a low opinion of what the skill set is worth. Anything about the individuals is merely observational musings.

You have very strong opinions and have stated quite a bit based on "observational musings". I recommend you raise your children on this level of insight.

There is a reason many people have their first job in food service, it doesn't take much skill. That and young people are ripe for exploitation via manipulation. Most of my observations are about 35 year old single mothers that used to be addicted to crack but now are just addicted to crackheads but they really need my money more than I do because they played ******* with the football team in high school while I was working to get into college.

Fact: most jobs take little skill. Hospitality is a skill. There are far easier jobs than waiting tables that get paid pretty well. Still not sure why you focus your vitriol on this group.

Mildly interesting aside, the only research I did led to me discovering I was actually overtipping because I had been suckered in by the whining propagandists to tip post tax.

Being wrong in this thread is a running theme for you.

Then I found out that was probably because I had been in the city for most of my tipping years and that is how they have us trained. I expect the waiter to not act like they are entitled to more money than they signed up for. I might start being cheap though, sounds like more fun.

I realize most waitresses can't read but what did that statement have to do with anything specific to food service. It was a general comment about jobs and pay.

Between your research study, which I assume consisted of rigourously polling as many people as the owners at the places you used to work, and my historical writings we could put Barbosa out of business. Now I have to pay the waiters salary and help the owner avoid taxes? Are we still in America?

The trick is to only put enough in that you are covered by Florida's she was asking for it law.

How many people get paid nightly? What happened to that incentivizing thing you were just talking about for why you don't get paid "enough?" In this scenario you get paid more than enough without any incentive but that is justified because you can't do the math and see the plus nights cover the bad ones?

Did the consumer set up that system? The owners devised it, the employees agreed to it and the consumers get blamed for it.

TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!!!!!!! Is this the reason why restaurant folk stay up late teabagging each other? Find out in my next book Mein ***** of Meat.

So much nonsense. I'm calling this one a GSB victory. GSB 129, SD 6 (it should be 0 but I'm a generous tipper).

Good game.