Legalize Marijuana

[Raw Power]

Oh, you mean like on cigarette packs? You know, the writing on the side of the box that NO ONE EVER READS???

The government, believe it or not, makes decisions for all of the citizens of our country to improve the quality of human life. If you disagree with the rules they set, that doesn't mean they're wrong and you're right. MUCH smarter people have come before you and helped make the decisions that have shaped our way of society. Those decisions have improved the quality of life in our great country and will continue to do so.

No, I mean how pretty much everyone knows these days how cigarettes have a good chance of causing lung cancer. Seriously, at least here in the UK, more or less EVERYONE knows that. If marijuana could be talked about openly and freely, without the stigma of being illegal, the problems caused by it would be out there for everyone to judge and make their own decisions.

And your second argument is so, so pathetic. Just because a decision has been taken by the government doesn't mean it's right, or that they know better. Are you implying that in the past, racial segregation was a good thing, because it was a law? Are you saying the Nazi's knew what was best for their people when they passed anti-semetic laws? Law does not = definetly right/moral etc.

 

[D-Man]

When has weed ever killed anybody? Please show me a news story of someone overdosing on marijuana. The gateway drug argument is bullshit. Marijuana doesn't lead to other drugs. The fact that people need drugs to fill a void in their life leads to other drugs. Marijuana is the safest drug you could possibly take.

Ok, so now we know that you are capable of quoting X from a few posts back.

Marijuana is the safest drug you can take? To quote a famous movie, "That's like being the smartest kid with Downs Syndrome." It doesn't make it right.

Safest drug, safer drug, safe drug... it's a DRUG. And the gateway argument is bullshit?? Why, because YOU say so? Like I said in a previous post... MUCH smarter people than you and I made laws against marijuana for GOOD reasoning. It is a substance that impairs judgment and can easily be abused to cause harm. That is why it should be completely illegal along with alcohol and cigarettes. I'm not condoning the other two drugs. I think they're ALL bad.

Listen, there are always 'exceptions to the rule.' You may be one of them. But the MAJORITY of people wind up doing other drugs after they've done marijuana. It is ignorant to think otherwise.

 

[Slyfox696]

Bullshit alert people.

Point One - So what if it's a gateway drug? Why let the people do do move on to other drugs ruin it for people who don't? People are more likely to try marijuana if they've smoked or drank alcohol before I bet. Why not ban them. Crap argument.

You're not paying attention. I've already supported banning them. Please don't post if you're high.

And so what? Are you really unaware of the dangers of drugs like cocaine and heroin?

Point Two (minor) - Where do you get the idea that just because something is illegal, it is automatically wrong? That's beyond ******ed.

This doesn't make sense. Marijuana is illegal because it is harmful. You're not making sense. The only reason pot smokers try to say it's not harmful is to justify them breaking the law.

Point Three - Yes, it is. Although, high driving is ******ed and shouldn't be legal, but I can't fathom that any intelligent individual would try and argue otherwise.

No it isn't. Because people shouldn't be drinking and driving. Trying to say that weed should be legal because people break the law by drinking and driving is a completely stupid reason.

Point Four - So, because people flouted the ban and the alcohol was controlled by crime lords is the reason why alcohol was un-banned - guess what, that's exactly the same situation with marijuana now. Either you're suggesting alcohol should return to being a controlled substance, or marijuana should follow the alcohol path and be a regulated drug...which one?

Alcohol should be banned.

Overall, I think most drugs should be legalised. Real, factual information on the drugs should be readily available and people should be able to chose for themselves what they want to do, and deal with the consequences.

Sorry, I choose to not support cokeheads who might kill me when their heroid addled brain decides to pick up a gun.

What are you, a 15 year old pothead? You don't make sense.

Oh Slyfox I really expected more out of you man.

The harmful effects of marijuana? I think you mean the harmful effects of SMOKE. THC itself has never once been proven to seriously harm any of the body's functions or facilities, ever. Using marijuana with a vaporizer or ingesting it orally is perfectly safe and will in no way harm you in the short or the long term.

But please Sly, cite me some studies about how the evil marijuana kills people.

HAHAHA..yeah, OK X. I'm sure nobody smokes marijuana.

As far as those studies are concerned, the fact you admit they exist, prove you know it's been researched as harmful.

I would love some studies to back up your statement Sly. But be well aware that I can than cite another twenty studies saying the exact opposite.

I've already given them to you. Follow the links.

A recent twelve study done at the University of Pittsburgh would suggest otherwise. I can direct you to it if you'd like.

And studies by respected medical associations say it is.

Which is your problem right there. No SHIT people who smoke marijuana are more likely to try other drugs. It has nothing to do with marijuana, it has to do with the fact that people who use drugs are looking for something to fill a void in their lives. You think people take a hit of a joint and say to themselves "Damn this is good, I want to go try some heroin now!"?

This is the biggest issue I have with the gateway drug argument. Marijuana isn't causing people to try harder drugs, and if you believe that, you're a fool. The only reason people so oftenly start with marijuana is because it's the most readily available illegal drug there is. If psilocybin mushrooms were the most readily available drug to the youth, would we than say that mushrooms are a gateway drug to cocaine?

Who cares? The fact of the matter is that if marijuana is legalized then MORE people are likely to try mind-altering substances. THAT'S the problem. If you make it more accessible, which it will be if it's legalized, then more people will seek more drugs, because of the pleasure marijuana gives.

Please tell me again how a drug being a "gateway" drug makes that drug harmful to your body. Marijuana has little to no negative effects on the body, and has in fact been proven to have certain positive effects.

And citing statistics from NIDA would be akin to me citing gun statistics from the NRA. They clearly have a bias, and using them as your primary source is laughable.

I've also used Journal of American Medical Association, and could find a ton more studies, if you really like. Are you really suggesting the only "credible" studies on dangers of marijuana use come from those who find there are no dangers?

Because, that would simply be asinine.

It is if the people opposed to marijuana legalization have no problem with alcohol being legal. You cannot event attempt to debate the fact that alcohol is by FAR more dangerous and destructive drug than marijuana. It's a perfectly valid argument Sly, if one substance that is by far more destructive and damaging than another is legal, than why shouldn't the other one be? It's hypocrisy.

How does the legal status of an activity have any bearing on it's safety? Marijuana does not inhibit your senses in the way that alcohol does. Therefore, it is safer to drive while under the influence of marijuana than alcohol. Does that mean people should be smoking joints and driving around at 100 MPH? No. But it's still far safer than driving under the influence of alcohol.

Okay, glad to see that you believe alcohol should be illegal. That means we can toss away the whole alcohol compairson argument here, because you yourself don't share the absurd belief that alcohol is safe but marijuana isn't. Glad to see that.

Right, I am of the opinion alcohol should be illegal. That should cover this part.

You haven't made a very convincing argument. All you've done is mention the fact that people who try marijuana might try a harder drug later. Which has absolutely nothing to do with marijuana's effect on the body.

I've mentioned that marijuana is a gateway drug, which if made legal would be more accessible to more people, giving those people even more opportunity to find they like mind-altering substances. I've also pointed out numerous sources that show marijuana's harmful effects.

All of which are justification to not legalize marijuana.

What's not logical about it? All three of those things have the ability to cause harm to you. Weed causes less damage then both, especially alcohol. So why is one illegal and the other two legal?

I can't answer that. But the fact that the other two are legal carries NO weight when trying to decide if the third should be. They're all harmful, and in my opinion, should all be banned.

It's a poor argument.

 

[D-Man]

No, I mean how pretty much everyone knows these days how cigarettes have a good chance of causing lung cancer. Seriously, at least here in the UK, more or less EVERYONE knows that. If marijuana could be talked about openly and freely, without the stigma of being illegal, the problems caused by it would be out there for everyone to judge and make their own decisions.

Yes, people have been made aware. It took YEARS AND YEARS to get this much knowledge out to our youth so they are educated on the consequences of smoking cigarettes. But, marijuana is still a substance that impairs judgment, and is used in conjunction with physical labor, driving, and other bad decisions made by people that smoke it. It may not kill you directly, but it sure kills you INdirectly.

Now, I know you're going to say that other things in this world can kill you indirectly... like a moving car or a plane crash. The difference is that pot has many uses that are, in fact, LEGAL... medicine, rope, clothing... but it's PRIMARY use has been ruled illegal.

And your second argument is so, so pathetic. Just because a decision has been taken by the government doesn't mean it's right, or that they know better. Are you implying that in the past, racial segregation was a good thing, because it was a law? Are you saying the Nazi's knew what was best for their people when they passed anti-semetic laws? Law does not = definetly right/moral etc.

You're comparing racial segregation to the legalization of marijuana?? Wow... you're really reaching out for something there, aren't you. Racial segregation was not a LAW... it was just something that was collectively done by society and followed by its leaders. It was wrong, disgusting, and embarrassing... but it still wasn't a LAW.

And I'm talking about the laws of the USA... not Germany. Besides, the Nazi movement was started by a power-hungry dictator... not a body of citizens of that country.

 

[X]

Marijuana is the safest drug you can take? To quote a famous movie, "That's like being the smartest kid with Downs Syndrome." It doesn't make it right.

Marijauna is hardly the safest drug you could use, but it's much less harmful than say, aspirin. Aspirin will eat right through your liver long before marijuana ever kills anyone.

It's not about marijuana being "safe" though D-Man, it's about adults being able to make responsible decisions for themselves on whether or not they choose to use certain substances or not. No different from a smoker or a drinker.

Safest drug, safer drug, safe drug... it's a DRUG. And the gateway argument is bullshit?? Why, because YOU say so?

No the gateway argument is and always has been bullshit because it doesn' take into account the REASONS why people use drugs. People don't try cocaine because they like marijuana, and if anyone thinks that, they're a fucking idiot. People try cocaine because they feel like it's something they want/need to do, to self-medicate themselves. Trust me on this one, I'm more than willing to bet that I by far have the most knowledge of substance abuse on these forums, having spent the majority of my life around, having been a former addict myself, and having worked in a rehabilitation center for over a year. I didn't use cocaine because marijuana led me to it, I used it because I wanted to further escape from my problems and try to make up for the fact that I had no idea of what I was doing with my life.

Like I said in a previous post... MUCH smarter people than you and I made laws against marijuana for GOOD reasoning.

Well, clearly you aren't very well informed on the reason why marijuana was made illegal. It has absolutely nothing to do with the government looking out for you. I'd suggest EVERYONE go to the following link if they'd like to know why marijuana is actually illegal.

WHY MARIJUANA IS ILLEGAL

It has nothing to do with the governemnt looking our for your best interests. Have you ever seen "Reefer Madness"? Do you also think marijuana causes people to murder people as well?

It is a substance that impairs judgment and can easily be abused to cause harm.

Obviously it impairs judgment, but "easily abused to cause harm"? You mean actual harm on someone's body and mind? Because if that what you mean, you're gravely wrong.

That is why it should be completely illegal along with alcohol and cigarettes. I'm not condoning the other two drugs. I think they're ALL bad.

This is what I don't get...so what if they aren't good for you? Should we just ban all unhealthy things on the Planet Earth? All fast food restaurants should be torched right now and any sugary snack cake or fatty fried food should be banned across the globe? What asinine kind of logic is that? Quite frankly it's insulting to me that you have so little faith in mankind that you can't trust adults to make responsible decisions. We're not all foolish apes trying to shovel drugs and candy down our throats, D-Man.

 

[Big Sexy]

You're kidding right? How many police people actually go out of their way to bust people for smoking weed? There's youtube videos of people getting stoned. People have myspace profile pictures with them smoking joints. Police know weed dealers and where they work in a town. But they don't particularly care cause there's more important things to be worrying about than stoners.
Hell, I've heard stories of people in America stoned off their asses going up to police to ask for directions and stuff. The police just send them on their way.
Call it police corruption, or lazyness, or just having other stuff to worry about, the police don't really care that much.

Well let's see. Three of my friends have been arrested in the last 4 months for possession so obviously someone cares.

Ok, so now we know that you are capable of quoting X from a few posts back.

I made a thread a few months ago about weed and made a lot of the exact same arguments. But yes I used his post as a reference because it's a great point that I hadn't brought up yet in this thread.

Safest drug, safer drug, safe drug... it's a DRUG. And the gateway argument is bullshit?? Why, because YOU say so? Like I said in a previous post... MUCH smarter people than you and I made laws against marijuana for GOOD reasoning. It is a substance that impairs judgment and can easily be abused to cause harm. That is why it should be completely illegal along with alcohol and cigarettes. I'm not condoning the other two drugs. I think they're ALL bad.

Well those are the same people who made laws saying it's ok to drink and it's ok to smoke cigarettes so they can't be too smart. When weed was made illegal very few studies had been done on it. If everything we now know about weed was known back when it was first made illegal, then I believe it would be legal today.

 

[Raw Power]

OK, I'm not high, I don't even smoke weed. Very funny.....

Look at these statistics, then reevaluate your argument.

"In the Netherlands 9.7% of young adults (aged 15–24) consume soft drugs once a month, comparable to the level in Italy (10.9%) and Germany (9.9%) and less than in the UK (15.8%) and Spain (16.4%) (where it is illegal), but much higher than in, for example, Sweden (3%), Finland or Greece. Dutch rates of drug use are lower than U.S. rates in every category.

The reported number of deaths linked to the use of drugs in the Netherlands, as a proportion of the entire population, is lower than the EU average (bear in mind soft drugs includes stuff like ecstasy as well)

The Dutch government is able to support approximately 90% of help-seeking addicts with detoxification programs. Treatment demand is rising."

Clearly shows, in a country where drug use is wide open, but controlled sensibly, they have less drugs users than places where it is driven underground.

 

[Raw Power]

Yes, people have been made aware. It took YEARS AND YEARS to get this much knowledge out to our youth so they are educated on the consequences of smoking cigarettes. But, marijuana is still a substance that impairs judgment, and is used in conjunction with physical labor, driving, and other bad decisions made by people that smoke it. It may not kill you directly, but it sure kills you INdirectly.

Now, I know you're going to say that other things in this world can kill you indirectly... like a moving car or a plane crash. The difference is that pot has many uses that are, in fact, LEGAL... medicine, rope, clothing... but it's PRIMARY use has been ruled illegal.



You're comparing racial segregation to the legalization of marijuana?? Wow... you're really reaching out for something there, aren't you. Racial segregation was not a LAW... it was just something that was collectively done by society and followed by its leaders. It was wrong, disgusting, and embarrassing... but it still wasn't a LAW.

And I'm talking about the laws of the USA... not Germany. Besides, the Nazi movement was started by a power-hungry dictator... not a body of citizens of that country.

1. Same can be said for alcohol.

2. They were laws. Jim Crow laws etc.. Seriously, I study law at University and we were given these as examples to show that law doesn't equal morality. Please stop editing history to suit your argument.

3. Hitler was democratically elected - i.e. people chose him. He didn't storm the German parliament or anything. Misinformed yet again.

 

[D-Man]

First of all, out of all of the arguments that are for LEGALIZING marijuana, I respect this post the most. It has statements of fact, intelligence, and maturity.

Now, to break it down...

Marijauna is hardly the safest drug you could use, but it's much less harmful than say, aspirin. Aspirin will eat right through your liver long before marijuana ever kills anyone.

True. But when kids get a headache and pop two Tylenol, they don't get so high that they say, "Wow... this feels awesome. I'm not in pain OR depressed anymore. Since my life sucks so badly, maybe I should try something stronger... like crack." Yes, I was a little drastic in that statement, but it's true.

It's not about marijuana being "safe" though D-Man, it's about adults being able to make responsible decisions for themselves on whether or not they choose to use certain substances or not. No different from a smoker or a drinker.

Agreed 1,000,000,000%. But, no one should even have the option of easing depression or personal pain by doing ANY types of drugs.

No the gateway argument is and always has been bullshit because it doesn' take into account the REASONS why people use drugs. People don't try cocaine because they like marijuana, and if anyone thinks that, they're a fucking idiot. People try cocaine because they feel like it's something they want/need to do, to self-medicate themselves. Trust me on this one, I'm more than willing to bet that I by far have the most knowledge of substance abuse on these forums, having spent the majority of my life around, having been a former addict myself, and having worked in a rehabilitation center for over a year. I didn't use cocaine because marijuana led me to it, I used it because I wanted to further escape from my problems and try to make up for the fact that I had no idea of what I was doing with my life.

I can respect where you've come from and what you've done, but ANY reasoning behind doing drugs is complete and utter stupidity. No one should subject their bodies to anything that impairs their judgment. Especially when it's so easy to impair your judgment and then do things like drive cars.

Well, clearly you aren't very well informed on the reason why marijuana was made illegal. It has absolutely nothing to do with the government looking out for you. I'd suggest EVERYONE go to the following link if they'd like to know why marijuana is actually illegal.

WHY MARIJUANA IS ILLEGAL

It has nothing to do with the governemnt looking our for your best interests. Have you ever seen "Reefer Madness"? Do you also think marijuana causes people to murder people as well?

For every article like this, there are 100 that say the exact opposite. Either way, any substance that impairs judgment and harms the quality of life to a significant amount of people should be illegal. Now, people are still going to use it. They'll still get their hands on it. Nothing will ever stop that. But why make it easier for everyone to do so?

Obviously it impairs judgment, but "easily abused to cause harm"? You mean actual harm on someone's body and mind? Because if that what you mean, you're gravely wrong.

I mean the results of it, either directly or indirectly, causes harm.

This is what I don't get...so what if they aren't good for you? Should we just ban all unhealthy things on the Planet Earth? All fast food restaurants should be torched right now and any sugary snack cake or fatty fried food should be banned across the globe? What asinine kind of logic is that?

About as asinine as half of your arguments. And I know that we're going to agree to disagree, so let's accept that and leave out the name-calling.

As for your comments about banning ALL foods that can possibly kill you, that's a little overboard. Some food may be bad for you, but it's still food. Shit... excessive intake of WATER can kill you. But, we need it to live. It's got some form of nutritional value. Pot, however, has no reason to exist except to be smoked or abused.

Quite frankly it's insulting to me that you have so little faith in mankind that you can't trust adults to make responsible decisions. We're not all foolish apes trying to shovel drugs and candy down our throats, D-Man.

First of all, I could give two squirts of piss about how my completely generic statement "offended you." Secondly, no, we're just thrill-seeking ass holes that do drugs for selfish reasons, without taking other human lives into consideration, nor looking at the BIG PICTURE. If you want to live your life with one foot in front of the other and without looking into the future like a chess game, then so be it. But don't drag the rest of society down with you.

 

[X]

HAHAHA..yeah, OK X. I'm sure nobody smokes marijuana.

Way to not read what I actually said and try to demean my point of view because you don't agree with it. Top notch maturity there.

Did I EVER say that the majority of people ingest marijuana orally or use vaporizers? No, I did not. What I did in fact say was that the majority of the negative health effects that have been linked to marijuana are related to smoking marijuana, and not soley THC. Smoke of any kind isn't good for your body, I don't think anyone is debating that.

As far as those studies are concerned, the fact you admit they exist, prove you know it's been researched as harmful.

Yep, biased studies are made all the time in fact. I'm sure you're well aware of this.

I've already given them to you. Follow the links.

Oh you mean the studies funded completely by the US federal government? The same one that has classified marijuana as being as dangerous as heroin for the last 30+ years? Clearly the people illegalizing the drugs in the first place are the most reliable source for info, right?

Considering you're an intelligent man Sly, I'm going to assume you know the true reasons for why marijuana was banned in the first place. They have nothing to do with concerns of the American public's health.

Who cares? The fact of the matter is that if marijuana is legalized then MORE people are likely to try mind-altering substances. THAT'S the problem. If you make it more accessible, which it will be if it's legalized, then more people will seek more drugs, because of the pleasure marijuana gives.

If you're opposed to marijuana bringing more people to unhealthy lifestyles (cocaine abuse, etc), than I sure as hell hope you're opposed to the fast food industry, and the dessert industry, and the smoking industry, and the alcohol industry, and the gun industry as well.

When did human beings become mindless drones who can't be trusted to make decisions that effect soley themselves for themselves?

The problem here is that you're trying to prevent a problem (drug abuse) by attacking the problem itself, and not the REASONS for why that problem exists in the first place. We should work much harder to curb adolescent depression than we should adolescent marijuana use, because it would infact help deter the latter.

I've also used Journal of American Medical Association, and could find a ton more studies, if you really like. Are you really suggesting the only "credible" studies on dangers of marijuana use come from those who find there are no dangers?

And I too could cite medical journals for you if you'd like.

The problem with everyone throwing studies at each other, is that honestly you can find a study proving literally ANYTHING. You could find a study that links brain cancer to jumping jacks. It all depends on what the criteria of those studies were.

I've mentioned that marijuana is a gateway drug, which if made legal would be more accessible to more people, giving those people even more opportunity to find they like mind-altering substances. I've also pointed out numerous sources that show marijuana's harmful effects.

All of which are justification to not legalize marijuana.

Once again Slyfox, you need to address the REASONS behind drug abuse if you actually give a shit about curbing it. Just taking away the drugs isn't going to do anything, as the failed "drug war" has proven to us.

I don't believe marijuana is some wonderful vitamin that should be put in kid's cereal of anything for God's sake, I just feel that human beings are more than intelligent enough to be able to make decisions concerning their own health for themselves.

 

[D-Man]

Well those are the same people who made laws saying it's ok to drink and it's ok to smoke cigarettes so they can't be too smart. When weed was made illegal very few studies had been done on it. If everything we now know about weed was known back when it was first made illegal, then I believe it would be legal today.

1,000,000,000% agreed. I think it should ALL be illegal, and I stated that a few times earlier.

 

[Big Sexy]

1,000,000,000% agreed. I think it should ALL be illegal, and I stated that a few times earlier.

If you think they should all be illegal then I can respect that. I just don't like the people who think it's ok that alcohol and smoking are legal, but marijuana isn't.

 

[Nate DaMac]

After reading everyone's thoughts, I have drawn my conclusion. I really see no harm in leaving it illegal. The legality of it has never impacted my decision whether or not to do it, but where to do it. I will toke up in the comfort of my own home, but not in public where it could affect others. I believe decriminalization to be a just solution. What is the point of putting a user in jail? If they really believe that it is a drug and people are addicted to it, wouldn't it be more logical to put them in rehab? If you got someone selling it, yes, throw their ass in jail. They are contributing to criminal activity far more dangerous than smoking a joint. I guess it could be argued that legalizing it would stiffle said activity, but I don't agree.

 

[Slyfox696]

Way to not read what I actually said and try to demean my point of view because you don't agree with it. Top notch maturity there.

Did I EVER say that the majority of people ingest marijuana orally or use vaporizers? No, I did not. What I did in fact say was that the majority of the negative health effects that have been linked to marijuana are related to smoking marijuana, and not soley THC. Smoke of any kind isn't good for your body, I don't think anyone is debating that.

So, you agree that we should ban marijuana? Why are we even still discussing this then?

Yep, biased studies are made all the time in fact. I'm sure you're well aware of this.

Of course I am, I've seen plenty of the ones that potheads use to justify their position.

Oh you mean the studies funded completely by the US federal government? The same one that has classified marijuana as being as dangerous as heroin for the last 30+ years? Clearly the people illegalizing the drugs in the first place are the most reliable source for info, right?

Being funded and running the study is completely different, and you know that. Furthermore, there have been studies does independent of government involvement that have proven the same things.

Considering you're an intelligent man Sly, I'm going to assume you know the true reasons for why marijuana was banned in the first place. They have nothing to do with concerns of the American public's health.

The reasons it was banned, have nothing to do with the reason it is still banned.

If you're opposed to marijuana bringing more people to unhealthy lifestyles (cocaine abuse, etc), than I sure as hell hope you're opposed to the fast food industry, and the dessert industry, and the smoking industry, and the alcohol industry, and the gun industry as well.

There's a HUGE difference between weed and cocaine and fast food/desserts.

Weed and cocaine are mind-altering drugs, which impact the brain and it's ability to think and reason. Fast food and desserts just make you fat, and there is no addictive quality to it.

Trying to compare the two is ludicrous, and you know that.

When did human beings become mindless drones who can't be trusted to make decisions that effect soley themselves for themselves?

When the people who do drugs affect the lives of other people. When people hopped up on cocaine get a gun and kills someone. When people who drink and drive cause accidents. When people with a drug addiction costs millions of taxpayer dollars.

It's not the decision for the individual that causes these things to be wrong and regulated, it's the impact it has on other people.

The problem here is that you're trying to prevent a problem (drug abuse) by attacking the problem itself, and not the REASONS for why that problem exists in the first place. We should work much harder to curb adolescent depression than we should adolescent marijuana use, because it would infact help deter the latter.

As of this time, we can't prevent child abuse, we can't prevent poverty, we can't prevent depression, etc...but we CAN decide whether or not drugs should be legalized.

The problem with everyone throwing studies at each other, is that honestly you can find a study proving literally ANYTHING. You could find a study that links brain cancer to jumping jacks. It all depends on what the criteria of those studies were.

So, then, you're in favor legalizing something that can be harmful to an individual and others, because it MIGHT not be bad?

Don't you think if we're going to err, it should be on the side of caution? Because remember, one person's decision to drive drunk doesn't just affect them, it also affects the family that was planning to be married three days before they were sent to the hospital.

Once again Slyfox, you need to address the REASONS behind drug abuse if you actually give a shit about curbing it. Just taking away the drugs isn't going to do anything, as the failed "drug war" has proven to us.

And there are millions of people who are working to address those reasons, but the fact of the matter is that it's far easier to make drugs illegal than it is to spy on houses where children are being abused, etc.

I don't believe marijuana is some wonderful vitamin that should be put in kid's cereal of anything for God's sake, I just feel that human beings are more than intelligent enough to be able to make decisions concerning their own health for themselves.

Once again, it's not just the individual that needs to be taken into account. And given the fact that MANY respected medical studies have shown marijuana to, at the very least, have potential to be a gateway drug, then why should we legalize it?

 

[Raw Power]

When the people who do drugs affect the lives of other people. When people hopped up on cocaine get a gun and kills someone. When people who drink and drive cause accidents. When people with a drug addiction costs millions of taxpayer dollars.

It's not the decision for the individual that causes these things to be wrong and regulated, it's the impact it has on other people.

Marijuana doesn't make people aggressive like cocaine and alcohol. Marijuana isn't physically addictive in the same way as heroin is, and therefore doesn't "cost the taxpayer millions of dollars" as no medical treatment is needed.

 

[Slyfox696]

Marijuana doesn't make people aggressive like cocaine and alcohol. Marijuana isn't physically addictive in the same way as heroin is, and therefore doesn't "cost the taxpayer millions of dollars" as no medical treatment is needed.

But, it is addictive, and is a gateway drug, leading people to seek more powerful mind-altering drugs such as cocaine and heroine.

It all fits together.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Should marijuana be legalized? Yes or No and why? One of the main reasons is because of the tax revenue it could generate for the country. One of the arguments against legalization is children may get their hands on it easier.
What do you say and why?

Why not legalize everything that is illegal then? If you are going by the logic that the government could make tax money off of currently illegal things that people do anyway...at what point does it become too much?

No. I have yet to hear any convincing argument which says that the smoking of cannabis is beneficial for self or society.

 

[Suneeboy]

The legalization of marijuana can save the country 7.7 billion dollars a year in law enforcement costs. It can also generate approximately 5 billion dollars in tax revenue. This does not take into the account the extra income that would be generated from liscencing, jobs created, an agricultural boom, etc. Legalization of marijuana would in many ways be a social revolution in this country and a turning point in our history. It was legal up until 1938. There have been multiple studies that show casual use is not harmful to the user, and there is no proof that it is a gateway drug.

Sure probably everyone who has used coke has smoke marijuana, but not every marijuana smoker uses coke. The percentage of users of other illicit drugs who have used marijuana is not necessarily an indicator that marijuana caused them to use that illicit drug.

If marijuana was SO dangerous, it wouldn't be approved for medicinal purposes in some states already. The fact is 85% of non-violent drug offenders are in jail for marijuana. It is illegal at this point because people have a vested interest in keeping it illegal. That vested interest is their job.

 

[Suneeboy]

But, it is addictive, and is a gateway drug, leading people to seek more powerful mind-altering drugs such as cocaine and heroine.

It all fits together.

That is not true. Have you asked a marijuana user if they have a desire to try cocaine or heroine? If they do have a desire, is that desire fueled by the high that they get from smoking marijuana?

 

[D-Man]

If marijuana was SO dangerous, it wouldn't be approved for medicinal purposes in some states already.

Oh, come on. Morphine is also used for medicinal purposes. Let's make it legal to inject it.

Doctors go to 100 years of school so they are educated enough to SAFELY prescribe these drugs to people. MANY things in this world are beneficial to society if they ARE NOT ABUSED.

 

[Raw Power]

Why not legalize everything that is illegal then? If you are going by the logic that the government could make tax money off of currently illegal things that people do anyway...at what point does it become too much?

No. I have yet to hear any convincing argument which says that the smoking of cannabis is beneficial for self or society.

Stuff shouldn't be illegal unless it's beneficial. It should be legal unless it's detrimental. I agree looking at it from a purely economical standpoint is redundant, but just because something isn't "beneficial" doesn't mean it should be illegal.

And if cannabis being legal would mean more people doing hard drugs, Slyfox, how do you explain these stats from the Netherlands (where marijuana is readily available to buy in coffee shops)

"The figures for cannabis use among the general population reveal the same pictures. The Netherlands does not differ greatly from other European countries. In contrast, a comparison with the US shows a striking difference in this area: 32.9% of Americans aged 12 and above have experience with cannabis and 5.1% have used in the past month. These figures are twice as high as those in the Netherlands."

Source: Netherlands Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, Drug Policy in the Netherlands: Progress Report September 1997-September 1999, (The Hague: Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, November 1999), pp. 7-8.



"The prevalence figures for cocaine use in the Netherlands do not differ greatly from those for other European countries. However, the discrepancy with the United States is very large. The percentage of the general population who have used cocaine at some point is 10.5% in the US, five times higher than in the Netherlands. The percentage who have used cocaine in the past month is 0.7% in the US, compared with 0.2% in the Netherlands.*"

Source: Netherlands Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, Drug Policy in the Netherlands: Progress Report September 1997-September 1999, (The Hague: Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, November 1999), p. 6. The report notes "*The figures quoted in this paragraph for drug use in the US are taken from the National Household Survey 1997, SAMHSA, Office of Applied Studies, Washington, DC".

"There were 2.4 drug-related deaths per million inhabitants in the Netherlands in 1995. In France this figure was 9.5, in Germany 20, in Sweden 23.5 and in Spain 27.1. According to the 1995 report of the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction in Lisbon, the Dutch figures are the lowest in Europe. The Dutch AIDS prevention programme was equally successful. Europe-wide, an average of 39.2% of AIDS victims are intravenous drug-users. In the Netherlands, this percentage is as low as 10.5%."

Source: Netherlands Ministry of Justice, Fact Sheet: Dutch Drugs Policy, (Utrecht: Trimbos Institute, Netherlands Institute of Mental Health and Addiction, 1999), from the Netherlands Justice Ministry website at http://www.minjust.nl:8080/a_beleid/fact/cfact7.htm.

The relevance of these stats is obvious - I shouldn't need to spoon feed you. Please come up with a coherent argument for this, and don't ignroe it as you did before. It clearly shows a liberal, open minded attitude to drugs that values education and information over paternalistic patronisation produces more desirable results.

 

[D-Man]

That is not true. Have you asked a marijuana user if they have a desire to try cocaine or heroine? If they do have a desire, is that desire fueled by the high that they get from smoking marijuana?

If you're asking me, then I say yes. I smoke pot regularly, and I'm VERY curious as to what kind of high cocaine and heroin gives me i comparison to weed. Still, I'll never try it. But I never would have considered it if I never smoked pot.

 

[D-Man]

Stuff shouldn't be illegal unless it's beneficial. It should be legal unless it's detrimental. I agree looking at it from a purely economical standpoint is redundant, but just because something isn't "beneficial" doesn't mean it should be illegal.

And if cannabis being legal would mean more people doing hard drugs, Slyfox, how do you explain these stats from the Netherlands (where marijuana is readily available to buy in coffee shops)

"The figures for cannabis use among the general population reveal the same pictures. The Netherlands does not differ greatly from other European countries. In contrast, a comparison with the US shows a striking difference in this area: 32.9% of Americans aged 12 and above have experience with cannabis and 5.1% have used in the past month. These figures are twice as high as those in the Netherlands."

Source: Netherlands Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, Drug Policy in the Netherlands: Progress Report September 1997-September 1999, (The Hague: Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, November 1999), pp. 7-8.



"The prevalence figures for cocaine use in the Netherlands do not differ greatly from those for other European countries. However, the discrepancy with the United States is very large. The percentage of the general population who have used cocaine at some point is 10.5% in the US, five times higher than in the Netherlands. The percentage who have used cocaine in the past month is 0.7% in the US, compared with 0.2% in the Netherlands.*"

Source: Netherlands Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, Drug Policy in the Netherlands: Progress Report September 1997-September 1999, (The Hague: Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, November 1999), p. 6. The report notes "*The figures quoted in this paragraph for drug use in the US are taken from the National Household Survey 1997, SAMHSA, Office of Applied Studies, Washington, DC".

"There were 2.4 drug-related deaths per million inhabitants in the Netherlands in 1995. In France this figure was 9.5, in Germany 20, in Sweden 23.5 and in Spain 27.1. According to the 1995 report of the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction in Lisbon, the Dutch figures are the lowest in Europe. The Dutch AIDS prevention programme was equally successful. Europe-wide, an average of 39.2% of AIDS victims are intravenous drug-users. In the Netherlands, this percentage is as low as 10.5%."

Source: Netherlands Ministry of Justice, Fact Sheet: Dutch Drugs Policy, (Utrecht: Trimbos Institute, Netherlands Institute of Mental Health and Addiction, 1999), from the Netherlands Justice Ministry website at http://www.minjust.nl:8080/a_beleid/fact/cfact7.htm.

The relevance of these stats is obvious - I shouldn't need to spoon feed you. Please come up with a coherent argument for this, and don't ignroe it as you did before.

Let me just say that this is a debate. I'm not going to search the web for cited examples of reports on studies, tests, and others' opinions. In this debate, MY opinion is that it should be illegal.

No one is ignoring you. We just don't feel like cutting and pasting the studies done by MIT, SIT, FIT, and any other college that we could find by Googling "Legalize Marijuana."

 

[Raw Power]

Yes, but it undeniably adds legitimacy to the debate. Most arguments people have used in here are redundant when compared to a country where marijuana use is legal - surely the best way to gauge the effects of decriminalisng marijuana?

 

[Blade]

Why do marijuana supporters act as if death is the only possible negative consequence to an addiction.
"But marijuana has never killed anyone!!"
So? It has ruined lives. If you believe it has never ruined any lives you're either incredibly ignorant or just blinded by wee fanboy-ism. I know people have lost friends and family because they became so lazy and unmotivated drugs and because all they wanted to do was sit around and get stoned. Losing everyone you love is probably a worse fate than death.

Comparing weed to cigarettes is stupid because a) you need tobacco to make joints which is generally the popular form of taking marijuana and b) no one has ever messed up their life because of their nicotine addiction.

And people say "Alcohol costs lives and it's legal. So why shouldn't marijuana be legal?"
If you understand marijuana messes up lives, then that is such an ignorant statement. It's roughly saying "Alcohol costs lives and it's legal. So what's a few more lives?"