LaBar: 'The Icon' Sting "Isn't an Icon in Pro Wrestling; Needs WWE to Be Considered"

[GrandSword]

So there is the other side of the argument that says Sting needs to work for WWE to be an icon. WWE is the top company. He does need to work for the top company

Wait a minute LeBar... when Sting worked for WCW, WCW was the top company. He did work for the top company...

He obviously has no idea what he is talking about. If Sting isn't an Icon in prowrestling I don't know who is? When you think of wrestling you think of big muscley dudes beating up each other, you think of lucha masks and face paint.. and who else for personifies the painted wrestler than Sting? That's right nobody.

I think Animal is jealous because even though he painted his face, he didn't have the charisma of the Stinger and couldn't make it as a singles star.

The Great Muta I think hasn't worked for WWE either, so have many others.

Sting = Icon

LeBar = Troll.

 

[i'm a cm punk girl]

He's someone that the WWE will put in their Hall of Fame when the day comes despite never working for them OR having a tape library they want to buy.

Says something, I think.

I disagree with the perspective that he hasn't gone with the top people in the business. His programs with Hogan ,Flair,vader alone are the thing of legend. He doesn't need a program with The Undertaker, Austin, or The Rock to be an "icon." It's just a ridiculous statement.

 

[Born To Fly]

Anyway as for LaBar's and Animal's comments, they're missing on this one. Sting certainly is a huge icon in wrestling. Going to WWE doesn't make you more famous. Look at Flair. He went to WWF in 1991 and while he had a good run there with two world titles, did it make him a bigger star? No, it didn't. It proved he wasn't as big of a draw in WWF as he was in WCW. Think of Flair's top moments. How many of them are in the WWF? How many of them are before 1991? The answer would be most of them. The same is true of Luger. His time in WWF is little short of a failure as he never won the world title, never became the next big thing, and is most famous for getting a huge push and never getting the world title. He was huge in WCW though, both before and after he left. The same is true of Goldberg. He never reached the level in WWE that he had in WCW.

I agree with what you wrote, KB, but the reason Goldberg wasn't a star, just like most of the guys who came over from WCW, was how they were booked. Vince just decided to run them into the ground. Sure, it would have been tough for Goldberg to climb higher than he did in WCW with his win streak and all, but he still had big enough name recognition where he could be a star for a while in WWE. I'd also argue the same for DDP. Even though I'm a mark for him, DDP had charisma for ages and could work in the ring, yet gets stuck in the stalker angle and you know where it went.

 

[klunderbunker]

I agree with what you wrote, KB, but the reason Goldberg wasn't a star, just like most of the guys who came over from WCW, was how they were booked. Vince just decided to run them into the ground. Sure, it would have been tough for Goldberg to climb higher than he did in WCW with his win streak and all, but he still had big enough name recognition where he could be a star for a while in WWE. I'd also argue the same for DDP. Even though I'm a mark for him, DDP had charisma for ages and could work in the ring, yet gets stuck in the stalker angle and you know where it went.

It's not that simple with Page. It was a combination of Taker refusing to sell ANYTHING for him, and another factor that gets overlooked a lot. Page grew up in front of the WCW fans. He went from a manager to a midcard guy to the hottest thing in the company to world champion. The fans cared because they we weith him the whole time. That meant nothing in the WWF, which is where his push partially died.

As for Goldberg, he wasn't pushed into the ground. he beat Rock in his first major match, he won the world title, he had a big time Mania match, and he barely ever lost, all in one year. The problem was that we were just supposed to care about him with no effort put into it. it doesn't work that way.

 

[Born To Fly]

It's not that simple with Page. It was a combination of Taker refusing to sell ANYTHING for him, and another factor that gets overlooked a lot. Page grew up in front of the WCW fans. He went from a manager to a midcard guy to the hottest thing in the company to world champion. The fans cared because they we with him the whole time. That meant nothing in the WWF, which is where his push partially died.

As for Goldberg, he wasn't pushed into the ground. he beat Rock in his first major match, he won the world title, he had a big time Mania match, and he barely ever lost, all in one year. The problem was that we were just supposed to care about him with no effort put into it. it doesn't work that way.

You speak a lot of truth here.

On DDP: Do you remember the pop Page got when he pulled off the mask to reveal himself as the stalker? Fans knew who he was, but were quick to turn because it's obviously not cool to cheer a deranged stalker. I agree with you that Undertaker didn't help his cause, but if they booked it correctly, it would have been a great launching point for DDP to come into the WWE.

On Goldberg: Of course he wasn't booked into the ground, but he never looked too strong. Obviously the WWE had its superheros and there was no way Goldberg was going to vault ahead of them off the bat. He did beat The Rock and earned a world title, but at the same time, he got his ass kicked in the chamber (which he looked great in, by the way) among others.

It really comes down to booking for us to care about a performer, as fans, and both of those guys weren't properly used for us to care about longer than a year or so.

 

[akrassikauda]

Is Shawn Michaels an icon because he says so or is Sean Michaels a bigger icon than Shawn Michaels(100 imaginary dollars to the person who gets that).

Most of us will agree that Sting is an icon in wrestling. Maybe Sting could have been a mainstream icon if Ready To Rumble didn't bomb (another tragic WCW mistake) but that's where it ends as being an icon in the wrestling business. When I hear Sting being called an icon it's about wrestling and nothing more. I'm fine with that, Sting didn't need MTV,Mr. T,a cartoon,late night talk shows,didn't need to be a real American (I can't believe that was for Windham & Rotundo), 10 minutes of posing, he didn't need none of it to become an icon in wrestling. The other guy needed it to become a mainstream icon. Sting had the look and tools to be that Regan era all american icon, but do people like Labar ever think maybe Sting just wanted to wrestle to be an icon without the mainstream bullshit. People forget that Flair was an icon before he ever stepped foot in the WWF. I marked out when Flair showed up so did some fans throwing up four fingers, we knew who he was. You don't need WWE to be an icon in wrestling but you may need them for the mainstream but being just an icon in wrestling is fine by me.

Sting is an icon.

 

[klunderbunker]

You speak a lot of truth here.

On DDP: Do you remember the pop Page got when he pulled off the mask to reveal himself as the stalker? Fans knew who he was, but were quick to turn because it's obviously not cool to cheer a deranged stalker. I agree with you that Undertaker didn't help his cause, but if they booked it correctly, it would have been a great launching point for DDP to come into the WWE.

On Goldberg: Of course he wasn't booked into the ground, but he never looked too strong. Obviously the WWE had its superheros and there was no way Goldberg was going to vault ahead of them off the bat. He did beat The Rock and earned a world title, but at the same time, he got his ass kicked in the chamber (which he looked great in, by the way) among others.

It really comes down to booking for us to care about a performer, as fans, and both of those guys weren't properly used for us to care about longer than a year or so.

...he destroyed everyone and only lost because he speared a sledgehammer. That sounds like being booked pretty strong to me. The half shorts and modified theme didn't help either.

Anyway back to the topic at hand here because this is getting a bit off topic, the same would hold true for Sting but I think he's a big enough name to avoid a lot of this stuff. However, most fans that only watch WWE (as in most of the younger fans) only know of the bright colored guy that shows up on DVD and is mentioned by commentators as being great. Leave it at that, as he's a shell of himself physically now. It's better for his legacy that way and going to WWE isn't going to make him a bigger star.

 

[VencomHardcore]

ANYONE WHO SAYS THAT YOU NEED TO WORK FOR WWE TO BE AN ICON IS DUMB AND STUPID !!!

Sting is one of a few wrestlers that were not made by WWE. He and Ric Flair were International stars. Flair was an icon before he ever went to WWE. Sting is an icon whether people want to agree or not. Sting sold out venues all over the world during his career.

And if Sting wasn't an Icon, then how in the hell do you explain the WWE Pimping his face on every damn WCW DVD or adding him to almost every HOF DVD that did time in WCW. Sounds like an icon to me. Whether Vince accepts it or not, Sting is a legend.

And that argument isn't only left for sting. There are other wrestlers that never worked for vince that had amazing careers of legendary status outside the Mc Mahon territory.

According to this argument, Gordon Solie isn't a legend because he didn't give Vince a few years. Yet everyone that has done wrestling commentary site him as the one who inspired them and showed them how to tell a story.

 

[RockSolid]

I dunno if anyone saw this, but on that toolbag LaBar's Twitter, Sting actually responded.

Sting wrote to LaBar: "For the record: I did not name myself "The Icon Sting", nor do I consider myself an "Icon". I'm the Stinger... Take a deep breath..."

Sting is definitely an icon. He doesn't need the WWE to fulfill his legacy. It would be one of those things where the WWE needs Sting more than Sting needs the WWE.

 

[scottyshowman82]

It's kinda funny, isn't it? If he wasn't trying to use it as an argument that Sting wasn't an icon, why even include it at all? It's almost as if he is a lawyer who deliberately states something, knowing full well that not only will there be an objection, but that it would be sustained. Officially the statement is not part of the record, but it still exists in the minds of the jury members. It's like he recognizes just how stupid the Google argument is, but he still felt compelled to use it anyway...

I totally agree with this. Starrcade 1997 was a BIG DEAL when it happened. People were calling it the match of century leading up to it and Sting was in it. So I think he is an icon.

 

[Junkfood34]

This isn't like the CFL to the NFL...this is the AFL to the NFL.

finally another ozzy..........plus also why in the blue hell are u sending gail ur hair?

 

[JJ15776]

Icon is a pretty subjective thing. For me, Sting's not an icon...but this is my icon list for pro wrestling: Hulk Hogan. That's it, that's the list. Everybody else falls under the category of legend or lower.

But that said, that whole column is just idiocy. There's no other word for it. Pure, unadulterated idiocy.

First of all, clearly Animal is just a moron, so there's no reason to even acknowledge what he said.

And second of all, I submit a video clip that could best sum up LaBar's pathetic attempt at an argument for Sting not being an icon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmxfLuNto

 

[SSJPhenom]

I know that this is a thread about whether or not Sting is an icon in Professional wrestling but I have to address this comment....

It's not that simple with Page. It was a combination of Taker refusing to sell ANYTHING for him, and another factor that gets overlooked a lot. Page grew up in front of the WCW fans. He went from a manager to a midcard guy to the hottest thing in the company to world champion. The fans cared because they we weith him the whole time. That meant nothing in the WWF, which is where his push partially died.

You sir are f'n wrong....

'Taker did a hell of a lot to try and get DDP over. It's not his fault that the WWE audience wasn't the WCW audience. The WWE audience just didn't give a shit about DDP and that's why he wasn't successful in his WWE tenure. 'Taker didn't bury DDP and if you want; I can provide video proof of both men speaking on this very subject.

Now, on to Sting.

As a wrestling fan for about 19 or so years, I indeed consider Sting an icon of professional wrestling. He was the hottest thing going in WCW in '91 and '92 and then again from about '97 to '99. I, like many wrestling fans, consider Sting to be a true icon of this business. However; if you were to ask Jane Rotten-Crotch on the corner who Sting was what would you get?

I think that was LaBar's point. Do people who aren't wrestling fans know who Sting the wrestler is? IDK if they do. So; to LaBar's point, I think that would mean that there are only just a few icons of this business. Those ppl would be Hogan, Flair, Andre, Rock, and Austin. Using Labar's system; you couldn't even consider Shawn Michaels, the greatest performer of them all, an Icon of this business because he isn't really known outside the wrestling world.

So should we go by fans of wrestling or by who the public knows best?

 

[klunderbunker]

I know that this is a thread about whether or not Sting is an icon in Professional wrestling but I have to address this comment....



You sir are f'n wrong....

'Taker did a hell of a lot to try and get DDP over. It's not his fault that the WWE audience wasn't the WCW audience. The WWE audience just didn't give a shit about DDP and that's why he wasn't successful in his WWE tenure. 'Taker didn't bury DDP and if you want; I can provide video proof of both men speaking on this very subject.

Just....no. From beating Page literally every time (Page never beat Taker once. Not once) to having Sara beat Page, to no selling Diamond Cutters, to
Page doing the same stuff over and over again, to Taker's lame "now I'm stalking you" nonsense, to Taker sending Kane to destroy Page, if you think Taker put Page over, you're an imbecile.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Just....no. From beating Page literally every time (Page never beat Taker once. Not once) to having Sara beat Page, to no selling Diamond Cutters, to
Page doing the same stuff over and over again, to Taker's lame "now I'm stalking you" nonsense, to Taker sending Kane to destroy Page, if you think Taker put Page over, you're an imbecile.

I never claimed that 'Taker put DDP over, because he definitely didn't. I was just referring to you saying that 'Taker is at fault for DDP's failure in the WWE. Again; it wasn't 'Taker's fault that the WWE audience didn't give two shits about DDP.

This is a thread about Sting so this will probably be deleted, but I'll defend my Phenom till the bitter end.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Sting wants to be the most famous guy in wrestling history to "not work for Vince". Well, I hope that gets him through the night, because I think one day, many many years down the track, he will regret his stance.

Every person in a competitive enviroment wants to reach the pinnacle of their sport, and when they don't, many feel a sense of not achieving everything they want.

There are star NFL players who may have won many MVP and other awards, but regret never winning the Superbowl. I imagine that tennis ace Pete Sampras, despite winning all those Grand Slam, feels a bit unfulfiled, because he never won a French Open. Many Olympians feel gutted if they never win a Gold Medal in their career.

Now, most of these people tried to win in these circumstances and came up short. The difference with Sting isn't that someone better kept him out of a spot, or he wasn't good enough, but because of his damn pride.

There are people who fell out with Vince and yet came back to do a Wrestlemania. Even Goldberg, who swore never to join WWE, which he hated, did a Wrestlemania.

Wrestlemania is the pinnacle of professional wrestling-sports entertainment. Like it or not.There are probably people in WWE who never got on the card, who wish they had. Sting would be an automatic walk-up for a WM spot, but refuses to do it.

What, does he think "Wrestlemania" is beneath him?

I would like to see Sting fight Undertaker at WM, and then they both have it be their last matches, and both retire at the same time. That way, Sting can walk away, having done it all. But it won't happen, because of his foolish pride.

 

[Darkshot77]

Justin, do you have any idea what you are talking about?

For years it has been a major point of contention with me that Sting is given icon status in professional wrestling.

To say that Sting is not a Icon "in pro wrestling" and then say that is relevancy to pop culture is an indication of it, is like saying the AMC Javelin is not an iconic muscle car because no one would recognize it if it drove down the street. In the realm of muscle cars the Javelin is as iconic as the Dodge Challenger. In the realm of wrestling, Sing is as iconic as Flair and Michaels.

We are not debating whether Sting is a pop culture Icon like the Rock or Austin. We are not debating that Sting is Synonymous with wrestling like Hogan or McMahon. We are not debating if he is recognizable to the outside world like Savage or Andre. We are debating if he is an Icon "in pro wrestling" In the realm of professional wrestling, Sting is undoubtedly and icon.

For reasons already stated, given his match pedigree and performance in the ring, Sting is represents wrestling to those who love the business. Just because he never worked Vince doesn't matter in the slightest.

It was not football fans who decided Michael Jordan was Iconic. It was not Country music fans that first began to hail AC/DC as one of the Gods of Rock. The General Populace does not define who is iconic in wrestling, wrestling fans do, and from what I can see, sting is an Icon.

As a side note:

I mean, out of Hogan, Rock and perhaps Cena (in the US, cause out of it, I doubt so many people know him if they don't follow wrestling at a certain degree), who would be considered an icon?

You would be surprised now many small Mozambican children living in a third world county know who John Cena is.

 

[Defekt]

Sounds like someone writing a controversial article for the sake of getting attention to me.

Of course Sting is an Icon. He was one of WCW's biggest stars, main evented one of the most historically important PPV's of all time, and is more or less a household name.

 

[thebarber]

Well it was Rod Warrior Animal who stated this, Labar agrees with this and is entitled to his opinion. Sting was great, disgracing himself now though. His Joker character is great, but he has zero business being in the ring. Sure he was great in WCW, but he was a big fish in a shabby pond. He was as good a politican as the rest in WCW and he is an even bigger fish in the pond that is TNA.
Sting would not have made the top echalon in WWE because he does not trust Vince and knows Vince would have stripped the Sting gimmick off Steve Borden and had him ciompete under some fucked up gimmick and disregarded his histroy. Sting would never allow this to happen, thus why he never signed with WWE. Sting needed to have a run with WWE to be fully able to be in the ICON stable of Hogan, Flair, Austin, Michaels, Funk, Taker andHart. Sting is on the next level down with The Rocks and HHH and Pipers

 

[SomeAreSet]

I've never watched WCW (I started watching pro wrestling when WCW were on its deathbed) but when I hear the name 'Sting' I think of the wrestler first,and then the rock singer. Of course,I was a 90s kid,so I wasn't around when The Police hit it big either. My point being,when a guy like me who's never seen a single episode of Nitro or watched a WCW PPV and only watched TNA before Sting joined the company,knows who Sting is,how can he not be considered a wrestling icon?

Using LaBar's Google standard,would The Rock be considered an icon? Considering some people would think of the Sean Connery movie when you say "The Rock".

Of course,LaBar also seems to have a high standard for the word "icon". In that case,I can only think of 2 true-to-form icons in pro-wrestling: Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold. The Rock and John Cena can be considered close to being iconic. Triple H would be nowhere close to being an icon. Hell,even I consider Sting to be a bigger icon than Triple H.

I think the fact that Sting's never been in the WWE is irrelevant. He's a pretty big name in his own right,and if LaBar is going to stick Triple H's name in the list of wrestling icons,then Sting should definitely be up there. It's really not his fault that there's an even more famous Sting in the mainstream. If Michael Jackson was named Hulk Hogan and the Jackson 5 were the Hogan 5,would Hogan be considered a wrestling icon then? There's no way the Hulkster is more famous than Michael Jackson,and if we say the name "Hulk",do we think of a big green angry monster,or do we think of the wrestler? Sting just happens to share a famous moniker,that's all. I don't think that should count against him.

Lastly,WWE vs. WCW is not like the NFL vs. the CFL. It would be more like the top 4 European football leagues. Beckenbauer never played in La Liga or the old Division One or the Serie A. Pele never even played in Europe. Maradona never played in the old Division One nor the Bundesliga,but they're all rightly considered some of the best footballers in the world.

 

[c-trass]

of course sting is an icon, he has wrestled some of the greatest wrestlers in the world and he's sold out some of the greatest arenas in the world. if he ever wrestled for wwe he will become a jobber.

 

[Strife3]

You know I read this thread and the first thing that comes to my mind is the same thing that comes to mind when I read 90% of of these threads. Everyone has the right to their opinion. It's just funny how one thing said starts a flame war.

There are things I agree with in this thread and things I don't. For one Sting is an Icon that made himself outside WWE but he is also not 'THE ICON'. Sting is up there with the best like Hulk Hogan, Rick Flair, Shawn Micheals and afew others. If anyone is 'THE ICON' it's Hulk Hogan. It was Hogan who made wrestling what it is today.

Sting could go without being in WWE and be an Icon but even if he NEVER wrestles in WWE I see him ending up on WWE tv going into the WWE hall of fame. After reading that Sting and WWE almost came to an agreement on a contract I trully think that Sting will be the Undertakers Final WM challange either at WM 29 or WM 30. As much as TNA does for him I think one Match at WM will cement Sting forever.

 

[lowandmighty]

It doesn't matter if one ******** said Stings not an icon cause he never worked in wwe. The fact is sting is in icon and there's no denying it. WCW around late 1996 and all of 1997 was sticking it straight up wwe's tight ass hole and was the most popular wrestling organisation at that time. Sting was the main face character because of his feud with Internationally recognised greatest wrestler of all time Hollywood Hulk Hogan. When your the main good guy of a company that's doing very well in its field then you're a big part of the reason they're doing well and therefore sting is and will always be an icon. Sting didn't need wwe for international recognition and international recognition is basically all you need to be an icon which sting has so he is.

 

[lowandmighty]

I imagine that tennis ace Pete Sampras, despite winning all those Grand Slam, feels a bit unfulfiled, because he never won a French Open.

I seriously doubt someone who did as well as Pete Sampras feels unfulfilled. Serve volleyers don't very often win the french open anyway, clay is more of a baseliners surface. Despite what everyone thinks about those grand slam events its really the Davis cup which matters most and Sampras had enough of those to die with a smile on his face.

 

[Uncle Sam]

if he ever wrestled for wwe he will become a jobber.

I see this argument a lot, and I don't quite understand it. "Sting shouldn't go to WWE - he'll be fed to Brodus Clay." "Sting shouldn't go to WWE - they won't give him a reduced schedule." Etc. etc.

I know we all have this image in our heads of Vince McMahon walking round backstage at Raw in a banana hammock - no, just me? - and sexually assaulting the employees that don't agree with his earth-shatteringly good ideas, but I still don't think he's quite that nutty. He might not like it, but I'd imagine Vince would recognise how significant a name Sting would be to have, and how big that name could be again with some of them WWE advertising bucks behind it - nor do I think, and I've seen this brought up, Vince would expect a 52-year-old man to work a full schedule.

To summarise, Sting certainly doesn't have to sign with WWE to consolidate his legacy, though I doubt he'd have to worry about being repackaged as the new Doink the Clown and working 300 dates a year if he did.

Oh, and for the record: