KB Answers Wrestling Questions

[klunderbunker]

Uh yeah and again, about 193 other factors. For instance:

Advertising (Austin's first pay per view defense had a horrible buyrate because the card wasn't announced until late. I doubt you would argue Austin wasn't the hottest draw in the world at the time)

How recently had they been there

Opponent

The rest of the card

Ticket prices (NXT sold out before Summerslam. Not because they were necessarily a hotter ticket, but because they cost about half the price)

What night of the week was it? The last house show I was at saw Cena headlining and the attendance sucked. The fact that it was a Sunday evening on Mother's Day probably had something to do with it.

How had these people been featured on TV around this time

I could go on, but you get the point. Just going off ticket sales alone is no indication of what kind of star power someone really has. Maybe very long term it can be, but off selected shows? It doesn't work that way.

 

[NSL]

Not my thread, but here's my two cents.

If I had two tickets to any show, anywhere in the world, but I had to pick between Daniel Bryan or Kane in the main event...

Daniel Bryan gets my money eleven out of ten times.

 

[Bernkastel]

Uh yeah and again, about 193 other factors. For instance:

Advertising (Austin's first pay per view defense had a horrible buyrate because the card wasn't announced until late. I doubt you would argue Austin wasn't the hottest draw in the world at the time)

Since these are house shows I imagine they don't receive much advertising. Not like a RAW or SD.

How recently had they been there

That was factored into the baseline averages.

Opponent

I think opponent only matters if one star is reaching the baseline or close to it, while the other isn't. Like if Cena vs Orton draws a high number in a B+ city then we can assume it's because both are huge stars. If Cena vs Reigns draw a big number and reaches the baseline for that city, but none of Reigns matches have gotten close, then we can assume it was due to Cena. But since Kane was drawing all around good numbers with everyone, I'm a little reluctant to place all the success on some of his bigger gates squarely on his more popular opponents.

The rest of the card

Not given, but I don't think house shows have an announced card before do they? Just a main event. And maybe some stars to be featured.

Ticket prices (NXT sold out before Summerslam. Not because they were necessarily a hotter ticket, but because they cost about half the price)

Wouldn't house shows have cheaper tickets than RAW and SD? I suppose I could look up the prices for some of the upcoming house shows, but I'd imagine they'd all have the same minimum and maximum range. With big PPV's there is seating available that wouldn't normally be found at smaller shows.

What night of the week was it? The last house show I was at saw Cena headlining and the attendance sucked. The fact that it was a Sunday evening on Mother's Day probably had something to do with it.

The date is factored in.

How had these people been featured on TV around this time

Bryan was off TV at the time, so it makes sense why he was was featured so little as a headliner.

I could go on, but you get the point. Just going off ticket sales alone is no indication of what kind of star power someone really has. Maybe very long term it can be, but off selected shows? It doesn't work that way.

You're right, but I imagine WWE imposes similar pricing for all house shows. Of course you'd pay more for the premium seats, but I'd imagine that there would be less of those available than for RAW, SD's, and PPV's. I'd argue that normalizing gates over a 5 year period based on past attendance records for different sized cities and comparing those from 2014 is a solid way to measure drawing power. WWE advertises which stars are to be present on a house show, but doesn't give a card. And many of factors that you suggested, like date and time, were featured in the study anyway. Abnormalities like poor weather will show up in the data. The Sheamus/Kane match that drew so badly I had to look up to see if weather was a factor. But considering their other matches drew much better whatever the cause for that low draw was can't be attributed to either.

 

[klunderbunker]

Since these are house shows I imagine they don't receive much advertising. Not like a RAW or SD.



That was factored into the baseline averages.



I think opponent only matters if one star is reaching the baseline or close to it, while the other isn't. Like if Cena vs Orton draws a high number in a B+ city then we can assume it's because both are huge stars. If Cena vs Reigns draw a big number and reaches the baseline for that city, but none of Reigns matches have gotten close, then we can assume it was due to Cena. But since Kane was drawing all around good numbers with everyone, I'm a little reluctant to place all the success on some of his bigger gates squarely on his more popular opponents.



Not given, but I don't think house shows have an announced card before do they? Just a main event. And maybe some stars to be featured.



Wouldn't house shows have cheaper tickets than RAW and SD? I suppose I could look up the prices for some of the upcoming house shows, but I'd imagine they'd all have the same minimum and maximum range. With big PPV's there is seating available that wouldn't normally be found at smaller shows.



The date is factored in.



Bryan was off TV at the time, so it makes sense why he was was featured so little as a headliner.



You're right, but I imagine WWE imposes similar pricing for all house shows. Of course you'd pay more for the premium seats, but I'd imagine that there would be less of those available than for RAW, SD's, and PPV's. I'd argue that normalizing gates over a 5 year period based on past attendance records for different sized cities and comparing those from 2014 is a solid way to measure drawing power. WWE advertises which stars are to be present on a house show, but doesn't give a card. And many of factors that you suggested, like date and time, were featured in the study anyway. Abnormalities like poor weather will show up in the data. The Sheamus/Kane match that drew so badly I had to look up to see if weather was a factor. But considering their other matches drew much better whatever the cause for that low draw was can't be attributed to either.

Yeah I'm not going through this point by point. I'll go with something simple: as NSL said, there's a much simpler way to test this theory: one guy is a career upper midcarder who has had cups of coffee in the main event and was in a 3 minute squash loss at Wrestlemania XXX. The other was Wrestlemania XXX.

 

[Da Prophet]

Did you like Foley's little heel run during the ECW angle in 2006?

 

[klunderbunker]

I did. He and Edge pining for the days of the Alliance was tremendous.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

While it wasn't quite the attitude era yet by the time 96 rolled around there are numerous examples of the product shifting like Goldust and Mankind's characters as well as Sunny going from just a regular valet into being sold exclusively for her body.

Why then with the boundaries being stretched as they were and the product continuing to move in a edgier direction was Shawn's character during his title run in 96 kept so clean considering he was probably more of a tweener the year before?

 

[klunderbunker]

My guess would be Vince was willing to test out a thing or two here on lower levels but pulling the trigger on something big in the main event was too much of a risk. That and Shawn was basically writing himself back then so he might have wanted to stay as the pure face.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

No, Kane worked the B cities. According to the study the A city workers were Cena, Orton, and Bray Wyatt. I wouldn't have pegged Bray to be as big of a draw as implied, but looking at his recent opponents and feuds it makes sense.

LMFAO...

You are single-handedly driving me off of this site.

Kane is a bigger draw than The Shield and Daniel Bryan... LMFAO...

 

[Bernkastel]

LMFAO...

You are single-handedly driving me off of this site.

Kane is a bigger draw than The Shield and Daniel Bryan... LMFAO...

Good. Nobody is going to miss you.

 

[Crocker]

I've seen it all.... Kane is a bigger draw than dB and The Shield..

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Let me veer this back to ya, KB.

So Sycho Sid is the only known wrestler to come out of Arkansas, isn't he? Go ahead. I can take the hit.

 

[klunderbunker]

Well the Godwinns were billed from there.

You also have Ron Bass (he was in the first ever match at Survivor Series) and ZEUS.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

This is way more than I thought. Thanks KB

 

[rbv13]

Lets keep the focus on point here. Like the other questions I bring to the table they stem from bar room conversation. Tonight's topic was "Big Show" rituals. The most humorous I heard was a guy who tans and shaves before Live Events to feel like a wrestler. Others were typical things like watching past shows, certain drinks and food.

Yours?

 

[klunderbunker]

I don't really have any. Whenever I go to a show (save for Wrestlemania due to the absurd prices), I get nachos and a Sprite/Sierra Mist if they're those horrid Pepsi servers.

 

[NSL]

With 26 days to go until the record is broken, do you think Summerslam, or Raw the next night, would have been a better time to trigger the "revolution"?

If Stephanie had to be involved, it could have worked for her to tell Nikki she won't get the record, and has a match against a surprise opponent Sunday. Have her fight any one of the 4 that showed up, and then the other 3 jump her after she wins. Then they come out on RAW and talk about how they're here to take the title from her, and we get the build until the record's broken.

It'd require a little build with Stephanie and Nikki, but a few segments over the last few weeks would have gotten us to the same point we're at anyway.

 

[klunderbunker]

Yeah for sure. The last month has been fun, but it's been a glorified waste of time with nothing to fight over.

 

[Da Prophet]

Does Nikki keep the title past Night of Champions to try and play this thing off like it had nothing to do with AJ Lee or do they just admit what we already know and have Nikki drop the title ASAP?

 

[klunderbunker]

I think the latter, though in my top scenario, she drops the title the night before she breaks the record.

 

[Da Prophet]

How much longer do the teams last? Will it be a thing that last for months or is it simply something to fill the gap before the chase for the title begins?

 

[klunderbunker]

I can't picture it lasting much longer. Nikki's line of being the most powerful woman in sports entertainment is a calling card for Stephanie, so I can see it all coming up soon.

 

[NSL]

I would hope she'd drop the belt the night before the record, but it's highly unlikely, UNLESS AJ came back...And that ain't happening. I'm sure they'll wait a few weeks after the record, so they can play it off that the record was not that important, but it wouldn't be too long.

Are these teams in place, just to have pre-set feuds once the title is dropped? For instance, Sasha wins, but has to screw over Naomi to get it, or Charlotte does the same to Paige or Becky.

 

[klunderbunker]

Yeah there are a ton of ways to go with it. They just need to get there.

 

[Da Prophet]

I can't picture it lasting much longer. Nikki's line of being the most powerful woman in sports entertainment is a calling card for Stephanie, so I can see it all coming up soon.

With that in mind I would have to believe that Team Bella wins at SummerSlam and then we get Nikki calling herself the most powerful woman in sports entertainment until Stephanie shows up and finally makes her defend the title.

That sound about right?