John Cena- 21st Century Hulk Hogan!

[I_Like_All_Wrestling]

I'm going to get here for this, but John Cena just doesn't have what Hogan had. Hogan was larger than life and you always felt that way seeing him on screen. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see that with Cena. I think he's boring on the mic. I don't think he hypes things up. I don't think he's funny. I don't think he's clever. He just happens to be the guy who got put in the spot. Hogan had the superstar feeling. Cena doesn't. But, that's just my opinion. Because of that, I think people give Hogan more of a pass (on top the the already stated lack of internet, etc at the time).

 

[Mustang Sally]

The fact is, you wrestling fans changed, not the wrestling landscape.

That's for sure. In another topic, we're being asked to vote for the greatest pro wrestling champion of all time. Included in the poll are people like Bruno Sammartino, Hulk Hogan and John Cena.....representing three generations of performers. It's almost impossible to compare apples to oranges to bananas because pro wrestling was at drastically different places in the world of sports entertainment at those times.

Wouldn't it be interesting to see how Hulk Hogan in his prime would do today? I remember him as more of an entertainer than a wrestler. Sure, he received some criticism back then, but nothing compared to what Cena gets today. Honestly, I would have thought Cena would be more appreciated universally for being a true wrestler, rather than a celebrity who happens to wrestle. The situations he faces are far more realistic than what Hogan saw. On several occasions, I've used the example of Cena standing in the ring and watching all seven members of Nexus bearing down on him.

What did he do? He left the ring, hopped over the barrier and left, apparently realizing that discretion is the better part of valor......keeping safe today in order to pick them off one-by-one on another day. Was this a realistic action to take? You're darn right it was! What would you do?

Yet, would Hogan have done that? No way.....he would have taken on all seven of 'em, getting beat down in the end but being cheered like crazy for his "courage."

No, John Cena is a lot more than a 21st century Hogan; he's a real person dealing with kayfabe problems in heroic fashion, yet in far more realistic fashion than Hogan ever faced.

Still, most fans adored everything Hogan did, while booing Cena. I suppose the increased cynicism of today is simply a product of where we are as a society. Go figure.

 

[Blade]

That's for sure. In another topic, we're being asked to vote for the greatest pro wrestling champion of all time. Included in the poll are people like Bruno Sammartino, Hulk Hogan and John Cena.....representing three generations of performers. It's almost impossible to compare apples to oranges to bananas because pro wrestling was at drastically different places in the world of sports entertainment at those times.

Wouldn't it be interesting to see how Hulk Hogan in his prime would do today? I remember him as more of an entertainer than a wrestler. Sure, he received some criticism back then, but nothing compared to what Cena gets today. Honestly, I would have thought Cena would be more appreciated universally for being a true wrestler, rather than a celebrity who happens to wrestle. The situations he faces are far more realistic than what Hogan saw. On several occasions, I've used the example of Cena standing in the ring and watching all seven members of Nexus bearing down on him.

Yes, exactly. Hogan was on top at a time when wrestling, or at least WWF, was seen as easy, shallow entertainment by the audience. People accepted Hulk Hogan's unlikely feats of heroism like they accepted He-Man's or GI Joe's or the A-Team's. Because that's how WWF was viewed in the 80's, and Hulk Hogan was a hero character. Emphasis on the word character.

As is the case with anything that people over-analyse, wrestling suffered from taking it too seriously. Now there's a large group of wrestling fans who demand a realistic and grounded product, to the point where John Cena is hated because of his heroic feats, which are nothing compared to some of the things that Hogan overcame.

Like people have said here, Hogan gets some criticism, and sometimes it's quite harsh. But he gets a fraction of the backlash that Cena gets. You can only look at the past through rose-tinted nostalgia glasses, not the present.

And the irony in all this is that John Cena has far more of the qualities that present day wrestling fans look for. He's a very good in-ring competitor, with countless great matches and a WON 5 star match under his belt from Money in the Bank 2011. Y'know which wrestlers don't have 5-star matches to their name? Kurt Angle, the Rock, Daniel Bryan, Chris Jericho, and plenty of other wrestlers that are adored on the internet.

People on the internet complain about John Cena's promos, but look at some internet indy darlings: Homicide, Bryan Danielson, the American Wolves, Roderick Strong, Low Ki, and countless others who are very solid in the ring but are are average or worse on the microphone.

The fact is, wrestling fans today are just uppity contrarians who thrive on nostalgia. And the first time that John Cena returns for an appearance on WWE after retiring, most of those haters will be marking out.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I have been a wrestling fan since 1983. I remember the days of AWA on ESPN, Georgia Championship Wrestling on TBS, UWF and WCCW.
The thing that bothers me about Cena, he doesn't take a beat down and stay down. This superman front that he puts on kills whoever he is facing.
Atleast back in the day, Hogan, Flair, Martel, Bockwinkle, Lawler, Macho Man, ETC would take a beating, get carried out, have his ribs wrapped or whatever it took to make the opposition look legit.
With the Wyatts, they should have had a major beat down involving all three members, have Cena carted out, maybe miss a few Raws, then come back and feud with each member. But no, he supermans up and beats all three like it is no big deal.
That is why so many dislike Cena.

And how is that different to Hogan pointing and shaking his head before Hulking up?

It isn't... Hogan only ever got "injured" by one opponent and it didn't "sell" the show as well. The Bundy feud was not as big as the other options on the table and the only reason they "sold" Hogan as hurt was to make it seem that next year, when Andre challenged he would have "no chance in hell".

The issue Cena has today is the same one Hulk faced 20 years ago, that once a generation of kids start to grow up, they want CHOICE, it's a natural teenage rebellion thing. Teen fans who grew up idolising Hogan were quickly put off and wanted to go with "their pick" be that Shawn, Bret, Austin or Goldust, they don't want to see another guy "forced" down their throats right after the one they grew up with. It's why Kevin Nash bombed as Diesel, why Bret was in a no lose position and why Austin caught fire as he did. Translate that to THIS generatoion and the kids who grew up with Cena are now older, they are being seemingly offered Roman Reigns now to head things...they don't WANT him necessarily, they want Ambrose or Ziggler or Barrett or whoever they pick... That's why it's dangerous trying to replace a cash cow/kid friendly character with another before making sure the foundation is there for those you are "losing"...

A lot of these Cena fans are getting bored, they'll crap all over Reigns on general rebellion cos it's who WWE is telling them to like and they've seen the rebels one by one marginalised like Punk, Bryan and now seemingly Cesaro not being allowed to use his swing...

These are not the fans Triple H was mocking with his "tweet my displeasure" comments... those are the one who were in this spot 20 years ago... this time there is no alternative, no Monday Night Wars to energise fans and if WWE gets this wrong and does force Reigns, then these Cena fans will tune out... permanently... that means in 10 years time when it's time to create a new kid star, they won't be taking Little Jimmy to wrestling to relive their youth, they won't have that life journey with wrestling that my generation had, where they liked as kids and it became cool to like as teens as it got into Attitude... thus when we had kids ourselves, of course we'd want them to watch... that won't happen this time cos once the Cena fans grow up, WWE isn't offering them anything at all... no TV-14 show to keep them and they're making pretty clear that it's not on the cards.

Cena won't be around as long as Hogan cos as it stands, the business won't be... the next time it crashes...it burns.

 

[Bockwinkel's Class]

And how is that different to Hogan pointing and shaking his head before Hulking up?

It isn't... Hogan only ever got "injured" by one opponent and it didn't "sell" the show as well. The Bundy feud was not as big as the other options on the table and the only reason they "sold" Hogan as hurt was to make it seem that next year, when Andre challenged he would have "no chance in hell".

The issue Cena has today is the same one Hulk faced 20 years ago, that once a generation of kids start to grow up, they want CHOICE, it's a natural teenage rebellion thing. Teen fans who grew up idolising Hogan were quickly put off and wanted to go with "their pick" be that Shawn, Bret, Austin or Goldust, they don't want to see another guy "forced" down their throats right after the one they grew up with. It's why Kevin Nash bombed as Diesel, why Bret was in a no lose position and why Austin caught fire as he did. Translate that to THIS generatoion and the kids who grew up with Cena are now older, they are being seemingly offered Roman Reigns now to head things...they don't WANT him necessarily, they want Ambrose or Ziggler or Barrett or whoever they pick... That's why it's dangerous trying to replace a cash cow/kid friendly character with another before making sure the foundation is there for those you are "losing"...

A lot of these Cena fans are getting bored, they'll crap all over Reigns on general rebellion cos it's who WWE is telling them to like and they've seen the rebels one by one marginalised like Punk, Bryan and now seemingly Cesaro not being allowed to use his swing...

These are not the fans Triple H was mocking with his "tweet my displeasure" comments... those are the one who were in this spot 20 years ago... this time there is no alternative, no Monday Night Wars to energise fans and if WWE gets this wrong and does force Reigns, then these Cena fans will tune out... permanently... that means in 10 years time when it's time to create a new kid star, they won't be taking Little Jimmy to wrestling to relive their youth, they won't have that life journey with wrestling that my generation had, where they liked as kids and it became cool to like as teens as it got into Attitude... thus when we had kids ourselves, of course we'd want them to watch... that won't happen this time cos once the Cena fans grow up, WWE isn't offering them anything at all... no TV-14 show to keep them and they're making pretty clear that it's not on the cards.

Cena won't be around as long as Hogan cos as it stands, the business won't be... the next time it crashes...it burns.

Which is why Vince's obsession with making wrestling a kiddie show is a mistake: Yeah, you get a lot of money via merchandising for a relatively short period of time but eventually the kids grow up and most of them stop watching. The bubble bursts and the next generation of kids is may very well not watch because wrestling won't be seen by them as "cool". Each generation of kids tend to have their own fads. When you market and present wrestling for adults at least you have a chance to keep them as fans for twenty or thirty years instead of having them all grow up and stop watching in five to ten years.

Therein lays the problem: The WWF/E isn't a wrestling company. It isn't even a "sports entertainment" company. It's a merchandising and licensing company.....and kids drive merchandise sales. It's kids that drive the sales of t-shirts, hats, posters, and action figures. Junior decided a long time ago that merchandise sales was where the big money was. The problem is that because it's kids that drive the merchandising money it's a money boom that short-term and illusory.

 

[d_henderson1810]

That's because the very next night he came out with his elbow taped up, telling us he's got a busted arm & needs to leave for surgery not that he was making excuses or anything therefore completely pissing all over Bryan in the process. Implying he was going to leave whether he won or lost? They even brought his shoulder injury up before the match.

There's always a built in excuse with this guy. At least when Hogan lost to Warrior there was no weaselling out of the clean job after-the-fact.

Gee, Cena said that, to explain to his fans why he would be off air for a while.

How would you have written Cena off air? Just not mention him, and then people would constantly ask? Or would you have the Authority beat him down and have him leave? But the Authority only got formed the previous night.

It was a way to explain why he was off-air.

Guess what, Cena not being there, meant that Bryan was front-and-centre in the hottest storyline in years (the best retread of the Austin-McMahon story, where DB was Austin, Triple H was Mr McMahon and Randy Orton was the Rock), and Cena wasn't even there to steal his spotlight. Even when Cena came back, he feuded with ADR over the World Title, in a completely seperate feud.

Cena can't even explain an injury without you hating on him. You would probably wish he died instead. That would make a nasty piece of work like you happy.

Guess what,, Daniel Bryan explained his injury as well on-air. Was he burying Roman Reigns, or who they are pushing now? Notice you don't complain about that though, hypocrite!

 

[d_henderson1810]

Which is why Vince's obsession with making wrestling a kiddie show is a mistake: Yeah, you get a lot of money via merchandising for a relatively short period of time but eventually the kids grow up and most of them stop watching. The bubble bursts and the next generation of kids is may very well not watch because wrestling won't be seen by them as "cool". Each generation of kids tend to have their own fads. When you market and present wrestling for adults at least you have a chance to keep them as fans for twenty or thirty years instead of having them all grow up and stop watching in five to ten years.

Therein lays the problem: The WWF/E isn't a wrestling company. It isn't even a "sports entertainment" company. It's a merchandising and licensing company.....and kids drive merchandise sales. It's kids that drive the sales of t-shirts, hats, posters, and action figures. Junior decided a long time ago that merchandise sales was where the big money was. The problem is that because it's kids that drive the merchandising money it's a money boom that short-term and illusory.

Won't these fans grow up, eventually have families, and then have their kids watch wrestling, and get them to develop the love for it like you do? Wouldn't you want to share that passion with your children?

That is where the Network is great. Your kids can watch "kiddie" WWE, and you can watch Attitude Era stuff on another outlet at the same time.

 

[Bockwinkel's Class]

Won't these fans grow up, eventually have families, and then have their kids watch wrestling, and get them to develop the love for it like you do? Wouldn't you want to share that passion with your children?

That is where the Network is great. Your kids can watch "kiddie" WWE, and you can watch Attitude Era stuff on another outlet at the same time.

The thing is, those same kids grow up and they shed the kiddie shows. You don't see too many adults sharing there childhood love of Spongebob with THEIR kids. They grow up, see the kiddie entertainment they liked as kids for what it was, and move on to more adult forms of entertainment. That's what happened with the generation of kids that grew up on Hulkamania: They eventually grew up and stopped watched wrestling.....hence the WWF's problems in the early '90s. Yeah, the wrestling boom ended alright.....it ended because the audience that was driving the boom grew up and moved on. It took WCW presenting a more adult oriented product and the WWF following suit to get those now grown up people back into watching wrestling.