It's Wrestling, Not Shakespeare

[Con T.]

Well Barrett had a contract and title shot which he gave up to beat up cena for the hell of it and spend a few months trying to ... get a title shot?

Yeah... Cena was champ at the time of Nexus' inception. He's also the one that took the initiative to attack Nexus. They made it quite clear the attacks on Cena would stop, and they'd focus on Sheamus, had Cena not actually attacked them.

Thanks for watching though

If you don't watch don't comment. Hogan was still pretending to be a good guy then. They made that beyond obvious. And no one in nexus fought on nxt?

Yeah, this is what we like to call revisionist writing. At it's best. So in other words, he needed to turn heel, so they had to explain his actions after the fact. Great, thanks for clearing that up.

For the record, yes, I watch. That doesn't stop me from believing that the writing is not only convoluted, but downright bad. To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen, I know the Attitude Era, I watched the Attitude Era. TNA is no Attitude Era. In spite of how much they'd like to recreate it

The difference is that it can be whichever one you want because of the nature of wrestling stories. If you want to be a dick about it all wrestling stories fail. If you want to watch for entertainment they more or less pass.

Yeah, not buying that. It takes a good amount of writing, which Vince Russo is capable of. But the issue is, most reasonable fans don't enjoy TNA. They just don't. One person not liking something is probably hatred; an entire group of people saying they dislike something, all for the same reason, must have some legitimacy to it

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

I thought TNA was a brand. Came with a label: exciting when least expected.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I inadvertently made the point about Shakespeare not long ago. About a JoMo promo oddly enough. Except I was all sophisticated and actually referenced a speech from Julius Caesar.

On another note, this thread is better for Coco The Monkey's involvement.

 

[ABMorales787]

Stating facts isn't being blind, Killjoy. TNA will never be at the level of WWE.

Would I like to see TNA as a formidable threat to WWE's fanbase and modern day-phenomenon? Yeah, of course I would.

Although, that has about as much chance as me growing an arm out of my left nut and naming it Alberto Dorito.

The rating as of late have been sniffing Smackdown's ass. 1.1 to 1.7. So the whole "TNA's ratings are shit thing" is something a WWE blind boy would say. Raw ratings haven't changed a bit over the year either. And this is a show that made it to the 8's with ease.

TNA may be struggling, but WWE is sloppy and uncaring. And as long as they keep going on their little powertrip across their "WWE Universe", I ain't gonna like them. If they could get their heads out of their asses they could have everything they've been "struggling" to get. higher ratings, higher PPV buyrates, media acceptance. But if they want to keep up what they are doing, fine by me. I'll just sit here and laugh at how the mighty have fallen and how the blind lead the blind.

 

[shattered dreams]

Yeah, this is what we like to call revisionist writing. At it's best. So in other words, he needed to turn heel, so they had to explain his actions after the fact. Great, thanks for clearing that up.

No its called a storyline. If you didn't think there was something odd about hogan cutting a promo about ecw being good then you are an idiot. He also looks around suspiciously pausing. Then he leaves, after promising them a surprise in the ring to get them there in the first place, and they get beat up by fortune. But sure they just said why not make hogan a heel with fortune a few months later on a whim. Give me a break.

One person not liking something is probably hatred; an entire group of people saying they dislike something, all for the same reason, must have some legitimacy to it

KKK FTW

 

[The Raven's Epitaph]

The rating as of late have been sniffing Smackdown's ass. 1.1 to 1.7. So the whole "TNA's ratings are shit thing" is something a WWE blind boy would say. Raw ratings haven't changed a bit over the year either. And this is a show that made it to the 8's with ease.

TNA may be struggling, but WWE is sloppy and uncaring. And as long as they keep going on their little powertrip across their "WWE Universe", I ain't gonna like them. If they could get their heads out of their asses they could have everything they've been "struggling" to get. higher ratings, higher PPV buyrates, media acceptance. But if they want to keep up what they are doing, fine by me. I'll just sit here and laugh at how the mighty have fallen and how the blind lead the blind./QUOTE]

Now who's being blind?

 

[The Raven's Epitaph]

The rating as of late have been sniffing Smackdown's ass. 1.1 to 1.7. So the whole "TNA's ratings are shit thing" is something a WWE blind boy would say. Raw ratings haven't changed a bit over the year either. And this is a show that made it to the 8's with ease.

TNA may be struggling, but WWE is sloppy and uncaring. And as long as they keep going on their little powertrip across their "WWE Universe", I ain't gonna like them. If they could get their heads out of their asses they could have everything they've been "struggling" to get. higher ratings, higher PPV buyrates, media acceptance. But if they want to keep up what they are doing, fine by me. I'll just sit here and laugh at how the mighty have fallen and how the blind lead the blind.

Now who's being blind?

 

[Coco]

He's not. WWE's been sloppy and uncaring since at least the brand split.

 

[The Raven's Epitaph]

Why has that just double posted? Forum lag is being obvious.

 

[shattered dreams]

Lots of ophthalmologists in this thread.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Reminds me of my dream tag team, Christopher Daniels and Kaz. KKK - Kookie Kutter Kruiserweights.

 

[Con T.]

No its called a storyline. If you didn't think there was something odd about hogan cutting a promo about ecw being good then you are an idiot. He also looks around suspiciously pausing. Then he leaves, after promising them a surprise in the ring to get them there in the first place, and they get beat up by fortune. But sure they just said why not make hogan a heel with fortune a few months later on a whim. Give me a break.

Seeing as he was, what co-partner with Dixie Carter, of course he'd say something about ECW. Hogan's part of the company, of course he was going to come out and say something.

Look, I'm done trying, really am. Understand this; I want to like TNA. AJ Styles is currently my favorite wrestler going today. But really, if you separate yourself from your fanhood, you will come to find that TNA, with what it has, just isn't making as good use of all their talent as possible

 

[ABMorales787]

Now who's being blind?

I gave you legitimate facts. You just exaggerated about ratings and talked about naming your arm after nachos chips. You tell me who's blind? Not me. I give proof and reasons.

 

[Uncle Sam]

CCM's right. I watched TNA for a good four years and I can tell you that he's right.

 

[The Raven's Epitaph]

Lots of ophthalmologists in this thread.

Don't use words that are too big for your brain, shittered. It doesn't become you.

 

[D-Man]

The rating as of late have been sniffing Smackdown's ass. 1.1 to 1.7. So the whole "TNA's ratings are shit thing" is something a WWE blind boy would say. Raw ratings haven't changed a bit over the year either. And this is a show that made it to the 8's with ease.

TNA may be struggling, but WWE is sloppy and uncaring. And as long as they keep going on their little powertrip across their "WWE Universe", I ain't gonna like them. If they could get their heads out of their asses they could have everything they've been "struggling" to get. higher ratings, higher PPV buyrates, media acceptance. But if they want to keep up what they are doing, fine by me. I'll just sit here and laugh at how the mighty have fallen and how the blind lead the blind.

I cannot argue with much of this except the part I boldfaced.

Catering to wrestling fans is not the way to grow a product. Face it... pro-wrestling is still frowned upon by the mainstream and media. Until you can get them on your side and make wrestling the "cool thing to watch", you're basically just recycling your fans over and over again. In time, they will grow up and realize what everyone does; after all, wrestling is not very "cool." But once those recycled fans grow up and move on, the pro-wrestling audience as a whole (that includes WWE and TNA collectively) diminishes.

This is TNA's problem. They are too busy catering to the "wrestling" fan and the "smark" that they forget to cater to "ALL people." Therefore, they keep their product hardcore and racy to get a quick buck. Pro-wrestling is CHESS, not CHECKERS. The WWE is brilliant because their writers, staff, and superstars are trying to cater to children and advertisers at the slight expense of pissing off a few smarks and wrestling-fanatics.

So stop crying about the fact that WWE toned down their product and caters to people that aren't YOU. They're smarter than you think. (that wasn't just aimed at Killjoy)

 

[The Raven's Epitaph]

I gave you legitimate facts. You just exaggerated about ratings and talked about naming your arm after nachos chips. You tell me who's blind? Not me. I give proof and reasons.

I also gave you legitimate facts. TNA have wasted money since 2006 getting new talent that have done hardly anything for them whilst throwing more than half of their home-grown talent to the curb.

This is why I have a problem with TNA fans saying "we need time to grow". 8 years is enough.

 

[shattered dreams]

Look, I'm done trying, really am.

This was clear from your nonsensical response.

Understand this; I want to like TNA. AJ Styles is currently my favorite wrestler going today. But really, if you separate yourself from your fanhood, you will come to find that TNA, with what it has, just isn't making as good use of all their talent as possible

And I suppose WWE is?

Its all opinions dude. Why do you not get this? If the only way I can shed the stevie wonder shackles is to fabricate my opinions to conform to the masses I'll be content playing signed, sealed, delivered.

 

[D-Man]

I also gave you legitimate facts. TNA have wasted money since 2006 getting new talent that have done hardly anything for them whilst throwing more than half of their home-grown talent to the curb.

This is why I have a problem with TNA fans saying "we need time to grow". 8 years is enough.

Another bullshit argument. Listen, I'm a WWE fan, too, but the WWE has had over 80 years in the business and has grown, lost, grown, lost, grown and lost their fans. They have less fans now than they did 12 years ago. Does that mean they suck, too?

There are many more factors to making pro-wrestling better than the ones you're talking about and than what posters on this site discuss on a daily basis. Stop looking at what's right in front of your face. It's more than meets the eye.

If you're going to have this argument, talk about something that isn't an easy copout and hasn't been to hell and back with discussion.

 

[ABMorales787]

I cannot argue with much of this except the part I boldfaced.

Catering to wrestling fans is not the way to grow a product. Face it... pro-wrestling is still frowned upon by the mainstream and media. Until you can get them on your side and make wrestling the "cool thing to watch", you're basically just recycling your fans over and over again. In time, they will grow up and realize what everyone does; wrestling is not very "cool."

I don't have a problem with them not catering with wrestling fans. My problem is them not tapping to what their PG Era can really do. You tell me. John Cena is pretty much a media icon. Why hasn't WWE bothered with another guy? Aren't 2 heads better than 1? Back in the Attitude days you had Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H, The Undertaker and others making TV appearances everywhere. Remember the Chef Boyardee commercials? It wasn't limited to center itself to one guy. But nowadays, whenever a new babyface comes ahead, we get stuff like Randy Orton berating his ring work, when that's none of his business, they get fired for breaking rules they weren't cleared on, they get pushed, but eventually it dies out due to lack of interest on creatives part. That's a major issue I have. This isn't the 80's. The world has changed. The days of a leader and his followers in the pop culture world are long gone. Today is about equality. Celebs team up for their work and grow on it. Not act on their own and carry the entire load.

Not to mention all the storylines they've squandered to satisfy themselves instead of the crowd.

This is TNA's problem. They are too busy catering to the "wrestling" fan and the "smark" that they forget to cater to "the people." Therefore, they keep their product hardcore and racy to get a quick buck. Pro-wrestling is CHESS, not CHECKERS. The WWE is brilliant because their writers, staff, and superstars are trying to cater to children and advertisers at the slight expense of pissing off a few smarks and wrestling-fanatics.

TNA is trying to access the adult demographic. It ain't easy. Especially in this day and age. And I admit they have their flawed strategies. But to say they cater to smarks now isn't really fair. TNA's been a lot more smark friendly in the past. I believe some of their employees even posted here.

Plus the company has been in far worse shape.

So stop crying about the fact that WWE toned down their product and caters to people that aren't YOU. They're smarter than you think. (that wasn't just aimed at Killjoy)

I know. They've shown it in the past. But not today.

 

[shattered dreams]

Catering to wrestling fans is not the way to grow a product. Face it... pro-wrestling is still frowned upon by the mainstream and media. Until you can get them on your side and make wrestling the "cool thing to watch", you're basically just recycling your fans over and over again. In time, they will grow up and realize what everyone does; after all, wrestling is not very "cool." But once those recycled fans grow up and move on, the pro-wrestling audience as a whole (that includes WWE and TNA collectively) diminishes.

This is TNA's problem. They are too busy catering to the "wrestling" fan and the "smark" that they forget to cater to "ALL people." Therefore, they keep their product hardcore and racy to get a quick buck. Pro-wrestling is CHESS, not CHECKERS. The WWE is brilliant because their writers, staff, and superstars are trying to cater to children and advertisers at the slight expense of pissing off a few smarks and wrestling-fanatics.

So stop crying about the fact that WWE toned down their product and caters to people that aren't YOU. They're smarter than you think. (that wasn't just aimed at Killjoy)

In the spirit of taking this discussion somewhere of interest I'll address this. I agree with a lot of what you are saying as pertains to the WWE D-man. It seems smart from a business perspective but I think even you would admit it hasn't exactly come to fruition yet. What I do not get is why is it wrong for people to say they do not like a product that caters to people that are not them when it used to cater to them? That seems like an obvious response from a quality perspective. Just because WWE made a potentially smart business decision doesn't mean ALL people should like what they are watching.

I also do not see TNA being too busy appealing to the IWC audience. I think the reason they take a lot of flack now is the opposite actually. That they are transitioning away from the king of the indies mentality and trying to get mainstream. They are pushing known name performers instead of unknown good in-ring wrestlers. They are pushing stories instead of matches. If they were catering to the IWC they would just have let things be and would have never grown. Much like the WWE they are in a transition period that has yet to yield a success but the potential is there. If they are looking for just some more market share and WWE is going after kids at the expense of some others, why not target some of those adults that are dissatisfied? Seems smart to me.

 

[Coco]

It strikes me that catering to an audience you have and making a profit off of them is better than wasting resources to be part of a mainstream who doesn't want you while you alienate your core audience. And yes, there is an allegory about your high school social life in there.

 

[Pole Smoker]

Well OP while some people are stupid for thinking cena would not show up at all they have made the angle stupid. They just need some believability in the storyline. Why not have Cena just take out some security guard plants before he gets in the ring or not play his music when he takes out Barrett

 

[D-Man]

I don't have a problem with them not catering with wrestling fans. My problem is them not tapping to what their PG Era can really do. You tell me. John Cena is pretty much a media icon. Why hasn't WWE bothered with another guy? Aren't 2 heads better than 1? Back in the Attitude days you had Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H, The Undertaker and others making TV appearances everywhere.

They still make TV appearances everywhere. And there are more movie stars now than there ever was in pro-wrestling. In modern day WWE, you have Kane, Big Show, Cena, DiBiase, (formerly) Kennedy, Great Khali, Austin, Nash, Goldberg, etc. They have really hit into the mainstream ever since the Attitude Era ended.

Also, you claim that multiple stars need to be in the media? Besides what I already noted, if you choose to ignore that, the 80's only had Hulk Hogan and they did just fine. It's the same formula. But let's say it wasn't fine and you feel more should be added... are they doing badly right now? Is Cena not an international icon? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You opinion is obviously not a proper reflection on what is truly successful in the pro-wrestling world.

Remember the Chef Boyardee commercials? It wasn't limited to center itself to one guy. But nowadays, whenever a new babyface comes ahead, we get stuff like Randy Orton berating his ring work, when that's none of his business, they get fired for breaking rules they weren't cleared on, they get pushed, but eventually it dies out due to lack of interest on creatives part. That's a major issue I have.

How, and in what way, do backstage politics play ANY role in what happens in the mainstream media and popularity of the product? Someone got fired because Orton used influence? Big fucking deal. Wrestlemania just got a million buyrates. They're laughing all the way to the bank.

This isn't the 80's. The world has changed. The days of a leader and his followers in the pop culture world are long gone. Today is about equality. Celebs team up for their work and grow on it. Not act on their own and carry the entire load.

But who are you referring to? This doesn't describe anyone on the roster right now. They utilize a team effort for their contributions to the military, Make A Wish Foundation, movies, television programs... I'm not seeing what you mean here.

Not to mention all the storylines they've squandered to satisfy themselves instead of the crowd.

Examples?

TNA is trying to access the adult demographic. it ain't easy. Especially in this day and age. But to say they cater to smarks now isn't really fair. TNA's been a lot more smark friendly in the past. I believe some of their employees even posted here.
I know. They've shown it in the past. But not today.

They admitted to catering to smarks! It's been in the news reports and admitted by Russo in interviews. What more do you need? Plus, Hogan is claiming that they are "shooting" now. That's a direct stab at the IWC and smarks.

TNA is still brewing a formula that lost its potency over ten years ago.

 

[shattered dreams]

TNA is still brewing a formula that lost its potency over ten years ago.

Yet your WWE defense is it worked in the 80s?