Is The WWE Finally (And Justly) Over Randy Orton?

[MFR0mack]

I'm an Orton fan & generally disagree with the original post, but...

Randy never has/never will draw? Yeah that's why when he first won the title people would go NUTS when he came out. When he departed from Evolution he shot to the top and became an instant star. Nobody MADE him. He defeated Chris Benoit cleanly and from that point on took over the ship. He then feuded with HHH. You clearly weren't watching WWE at that time. Orton got massive pops.

This is a blatant lie. Orton's first title reign was one of the biggest failures in the past ten years. It was as much of a flop as Jack Swagger's. The crowd was not into him AT ALL as a face at the time, he couldn't get a decent pop to save his life. All he had going for him was fueding with Triple H who was Supreme Heel at that point, so of course fans booed him. But even then Triple H got more cheers than Orton when they faced off at Unforgiven 2004.

Just because the little kiddies don't all wear it during the fruity pebble Cena era doesn't mean that Orton's merchandise doesn't sell.

Problem is, we haven't been in the "fruity pebble Cena era" for a few months now. CM Punk's been the #1 seller and John Cena's new shirts are black, not multi-colored. Randy Orton's shirts still don't show up in many crowds on Raw, Smackdown or PPVs.

I have seen MANY people in Southern California with Viper T-Shirts.

I live on the border of Long Beach/LA and routinely commute to Seal Beach, Huntington Beach, Los Alamitos, Venice Beach, San Diego, Vista, Oceanside, Corona & Carlsbad. My work takes me a lot of places and I notice a lot of people and I haven't seen a SINGLE person wearing a Randy Orton t-shirt this entire year. Your post reeks of Orton fanboyism. When you're blind to the truth and make things up for your argument, you don't really deserve to make an argument.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

What a fucking mark the OP is.
Orton gets a top 5 pop every night. Orton sells a ton of merch.

You just don't understand business. Orton is a cash cow, this means he'll draw with or without much effort from marketing. When it's time to really cash in though, he'll be in the forefront along Cena, Punk, Rock, and the other money makers.

I'm sorry, but you're dumb. Not as a put-down, but as a perfect description. You are deaf, dumb, and blind if you don't think Orton is over.

Orton never put on good matches? That's entirely an opinion. However, Bret hart put his in ring ability over. I've heard Harley Race put over his in ring ability. They both know more than you about wrestling.

Orton never drew? In relation to.....Hogan? Orton is a draw and has been a draw for some time, you are a blind mark.

 

[Wald]

Orton is probably the best in the world right now, him being willing to put guys like Henry, Rhodes and Barrett over only strengthens that claim for me

 

[red ass skull muhfukkah]

I can't say whether his merch draws as I don't feel like looking up the numbers but to say he isn't over is completely false. Other than the Rock, Orton still gets the loudest clean face pops (Cena's are louder but they're always mixed with boos). Just because he didn't get a loud pop last night doesn't mean he doesn't get one every other night plus the New York crowd always has a mind of their own.

As for his matches, I'll be the first to say that for years I could not get into an Orton match no matter who he was facing, I found him bland and a little lazy. But over the last year he's been putting on fantastic match after fantastic match with a variety of opponents. His feud and matches with Christian were some of the best matches this year, they put on 4 or 5 matches and each one felt different, it never got boring and they always managed to make the matches feel fresh even after feuding for the many months they did.

The only reason he's been losing as much as he has is to put other guys over. WWE knows Orton is one of those guys that can lose matches and still be over with the crowd. It's something that needed to be done, SD! really only has two big heels, Christian and Henry, and Christian is injured right now and who knows how long Henry has left.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Orton is probably the best in the world right now, him being willing to put guys like Henry, Rhodes and Barrett over only strengthens that claim for me

based on your other posts, I'm guessing you're at about stage 2 of the smark development.

Getting over makes you the best in the world. Guys don't typically decide who to put over. Only a very VERY small percentage of guys have that say and even then, Vince can typically make you job. Especially in this day when WWE is publicly traded.

Cena made both ADR and Punk look like bigger stars, which made Punks match with ADR mean more. He's making Miz (again) and Truth look like big stars also. Let me guess, you also like workrate?

 

[newteenforbb]

Cena made both ADR and Punk look like bigger stars, which made Punks match with ADR mean more. He's making Miz (again) and Truth look like big stars also.

Good point and another reason why Cena>>>Orton. I don't think Orton has the capabilities to make anyone look like bigger stars. If anything, his recent feuds with Christian, Mark Henry, and Cody Rhodes only came off well because those guys put in the extra effort. It is quite funny and ironic but for all the reasons people were hating on Cena for years, those reasons are now only maginified with Orton. At least with Cena, it was fun. With Orton, not even close.

 

[BASSER911414]

You know whats so funny... Comments about how Orton was so selfless in letting Barrett win. Give me a fucking break. It wasnt about his being selfless. It was how the match was booked. Faces win too many times and Barrett has been looking like a weakling more and more. This was creatives genius not Ortons oh so big warm heart.

That being said. I agree and disagree with the OP. Yes he does tend to get boring and still is a big draw but for how long we dont know. Hes heading down that path anyway. Hes a solid performer, his mic skills are crap and the 'Im bad, I dont work well with other, I dont care about anyone but myself but im still a face' gimmick is getting dry.

I loved Orton as a heel but I get it now, with the fan base he has its impossible to turn him back into a heel. Hes fine the way he is, feuding with guys like Cody Rhodes and maybe elevate Dibiase as well. Use him as a midcard pusher. Hes good for that.

 

[newteenforbb]

I loved Orton as a heel but I get it now, with the fan base he has its impossible to turn him back into a heel. Hes fine the way he is, feuding with guys like Cody Rhodes and maybe elevate Dibiase as well. Use him as a midcard pusher. Hes good for that.

Exactly. And my original intent for this thread was saying just that. I think the WWE is finally coming around to the idea that being a midcard pusher is what he is good for. No need for championship runs or main event matches on every PPV. Save that for the young and fresh.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Exactly. And my original intent for this thread was saying just that. I think the WWE is finally coming around to the idea that being a midcard pusher is what he is good for. No need for championship runs or main event matches on every PPV. Save that for the young and fresh.

So, genius, who are these young and fresh guys that you would put in place in Orton because to get to that point, you need a top guy to help? Who has given Wade Barrett a majority of his good matches? Randy Orton. Randy Orton is only 31 years old and has been a top face for about a year. God forbid a top face is out of the title picture and the masses start to think that maybe he isn't as good as everyone thought he was. Cena's been out of the title picture numerous times.

And to reference some poster that I can't remember on this thread talking about how Orton can't carry somebody or something to that effect, his matches with Punk were great. I bet most of you couldn't think of two or three great Christian matches before he feuded with Orton. He lost clean twice to Mark Henry and now is building up both Barrett and Rhodes to be top main event heels. I've been impressed with Orton this year alone than I have in his previous eight years combined.

 

[newteenforbb]

So, genius, who are these young and fresh guys that you would put in place in Orton because to get to that point, you need a top guy to help? Who has given Wade Barrett a majority of his good matches? Randy Orton. Randy Orton is only 31 years old and has been a top face for about a year. God forbid a top face is out of the title picture and the masses start to think that maybe he isn't as good as everyone thought he was. Cena's been out of the title picture numerous times.

I don't think Orton being out of the title picture is an indicator that he isn't as good as I thought he was. Quite frankly, he was never good to me. And being out of the title picture is both a welcome surprise and something about three years in the making.

I find it unfortunate that he is only 31 because excluding time off for perhaps a real injury or a created one in order to give him time off, that means he is going to be around for quite a while. But I have faith his presence as has been discussed in this thread, is going to be much different than it has ever been before. It would actually be a pleasure to see an upcoming PPV card without him on it- and I wouldn't be surprised if that happens at some point soon.

And young and fresh SD guys? Barrett, Henry, Sheamus, Rhodes, Bryan, Ziggler. Any of those six guys are stellar, if not spectacular right now compared to Orton.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The reality is that Orton has not set anything on fire with the opportunities handed to him, in fact he has been lacklustre at best in the last year, while others, even Mark Henry have brought more to the table in terms of effort and improvement.

Its telling that Orton has now moved out of the title picture and can't even really be called a top 3 face with so many others ahead of him. Barrett, Sheamus, Christian, Rhodes, Henry, Show, Bryan and Taker are all going to be ahead of him in the line and rightly so.

He isn't a terrible worker, just lazy... he hasn't brought anything to main event that Ken Anderson couldn't have done with the same opportunities. He was outshone by Barrett in the Nexus feud, Seamus and Christian and more recently Cody is doing the same.

Hitting the mat and having others sell a punt is great if you back it up by selling the other way, but Orton is the worst seller on SD in my opinion. RKO is starting to reap what he has sown a little, he was an ass in the past and now he is seeing guys who play the game the right way and avoided being the way he was moving past him at a rapid rate of knots. I wonder how long till we see him accuse another talent of botching against him?

 

[The Dragon Saga]

No. Only an idiot who looks too far into things would think WWE are going to let Randy Orton fall from their main picture.

Last night, who got the biggest pop in the five-on-five match? Orton, because the guy still sells. He doesn't need to always win to be on top, the same way he's showing he doesn't need the World Heavyweight Championship to be involved. Orton ended up losing due to the numbers game, hardly a hard loss to swallow. He lost to Barrett on Smackdown due to a thumb to the eye, again, it isn't as if that makes Orton look bad. Barrett had to resort to cheating to gain a victory.

Randy Orton was featured in the adverts for WWE '12. They market him, his name, his t-shirts, he was the last person to be eliminated last night, main events Smackdown near weekly, is only coming off the back of losing his World Heavyweight Championship two months ago and a feud with Cody Rhodes he won. So the answer is no, Randy Orton isn't falling down the WWE pecking order and WWE aren't "(justly) over" him either. He's still the face of Smackdown, still one of their top faces and he's still one of their top draws.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

These threads are really kind of stupid in some ways.

I get that some people don't like Randy Orton all that much. Ain't a thing in the world wrong with that either. Every wrestler has fans that just aren't into him or what he's up to. That's 100% natural and expected. However, too many posters try to pass off their dislike of certain wrestlers, in this case Randy Orton, as representing the view of the majority and that's just not at all true.

You know how I know it's not true? Because I have eyes and ears that function properly. Whenever Randy Orton's music hits, there's just this explosion of energy and sound that erupts from the live crowd. His pops are so loud sometimes that you can't hear his music over the crowd and that's not an uncommon happening. Whenever the camera goes to a shot of the crowd, you'll see people of every age wearing Randy Orton merchendise, holding up pro Randy Orton signs, women practically creaming themselves at the sight of him. Whenever Orton cuts a promo, the simple truth is that he has the crowd hanging on his every word and every motion. A twitch of a facial muscle and the crowd explodes. A piercing stare at an opponent and the crowd erupts.

The point I'm trying to make is that Randy Orton is massively over. He delivers on whatever WWE asks of him pretty much each and every time so no, the WWE is not "over" Randy Orton. There's no reason why they should be "over" Randy Orton with his popularity skyrocketing?

I like Orton overall. I'm not a huge Orton mark by any stretch but the man's hugely over. It is what it is.

As for him losing as of late, not a thing wrong with it. I wish it was something that WWE would do more with John Cena quite frankly. Over the past several months, Orton has put over Mark Henry, Cody Rhodes & Wade Barrett and he's done it extremely well & all without his stock going down even the slightest. When you consider the fact that Orton is only 31 years old and has long since already done everything there is to do in WWE multiple times over, using his star power to help put over other wrestlers and build their credibility is a perfect use of him.

 

[MFR0mack]

Last night, who got the biggest pop in the five-on-five match? Orton, because the guy still sells.

No, man. That's one of the reasons this thread was made, according to the TC. The crowd was dead-quiet when Orton came out or did anything in the ring. Ziggler & Rhodes EASILY got the biggest pop, and Rhodes had people chanting for him throughout the match and after it. Orton didn't get that.

 

[The_Reptile_]

No, man. That's one of the reasons this thread was made, according to the TC. The crowd was dead-quiet when Orton came out or did anything in the ring. Ziggler & Rhodes EASILY got the biggest pop, and Rhodes had people chanting for him throughout the match and after it. Orton didn't get that.

Dude, they were in fucking New York. I have rarely heard a WWE face get cheered while in New York if they didn't have an indy pedigree. Last night was the exception to Orton's tendency to get monster pops rather than the rule.

 

[MFR0mack]

Dude, they were in fucking New York. I have rarely heard a WWE face get cheered while in New York if they didn't have an indy pedigree. Last night was the exception to Orton's tendency to get monster pops rather than the rule.

The past few weeks on Smackdown have kinda contradicted your statement, unfortunately. And every other face on Orton's team got more of a pop than he did for a crowd that doesn't cheer faces...

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

This is awful. Flat out awful.

What has Orton done over the past year? Oh, that's right - he's given great match after great match, and put just about anyone and everyone over. Christian, Rhodes, Barrett, Mark Henry - I guess that means nothing to morons.

Orton is one of the two or three best wrestlers on the planet. He's boring! He's stale! Some of you wouldn't know a good wrestler if he were to punt you square in the face. Orton is in character, 24/7. He's as technically sound as any guy in the business. Great look, decent on the mic, perfect in-ring execution - the list goes on and on and on.

Oh, and for those saying turn him heel - good luck with that. I guess most of you have forgotten how he came to be a face in the place - we turned him. Vince didn't make a decision, FunkMan didn't make a decision, hell, not even Orton wanted it - the FANS did. They were booing a heel because he was better than those he was facing. Plain and simple. No one is making that call, mainly because it isn't possible (at the moment). He's too over. Oh, and he is over, that's a fact. If you don't think so, you're wrong (and probably really stupid).

 

[JBK2008]

The original poster here needs to be shot to death, revived, and shot to death again lol. Seriously man? The crowd pops for him and are so behind him in matches. Orton makes his opponents look good in the ring and loses to push them, unlike John Cena. Randy Orton may not be the typical face some may want, but he's doing a darn good job and has improved greatly in the past year!

Orton will lose from time to time, but it's to elevate others around them. There's no need for a Super Cena 2.0 as it does nothing for anyone in the long run.

 

[KoC417]

I'm an Orton fan & generally disagree with the original post, but...



1..This is a blatant lie. Orton's first title reign was one of the biggest failures in the past ten years. It was as much of a flop as Jack Swagger's. The crowd was not into him AT ALL as a face at the time, he couldn't get a decent pop to save his life. All he had going for him was fueding with Triple H who was Supreme Heel at that point, so of course fans booed him. But even then Triple H got more cheers than Orton when they faced off at Unforgiven 2004.



2..Problem is, we haven't been in the "fruity pebble Cena era" for a few months now. CM Punk's been the #1 seller and John Cena's new shirts are black, not multi-colored. Randy Orton's shirts still don't show up in many crowds on Raw, Smackdown or PPVs.



3...I live on the border of Long Beach/LA and routinely commute to Seal Beach, Huntington Beach, Los Alamitos, Venice Beach, San Diego, Vista, Oceanside, Corona & Carlsbad. My work takes me a lot of places and I notice a lot of people and I haven't seen a SINGLE person wearing a Randy Orton t-shirt this entire year. Your post reeks of Orton fanboyism. When you're blind to the truth and make things up for your argument, you don't really deserve to make an argument.

1.So you are saying that when Orton beat Benoit in CANADA and the crowd popped huge for ORTON BEATING BENOIT he wasn't over? Or when Orton spit in HHH's face and got a big pop still nothing? How about when Orton was at the head of the locker room revolt against Evolution? Nothing there? Still?

1. To be fair HHH rarely is treated like a heel. He may have the "heel status" but generally speaking he is a solid tweener. Never receives a full heel following, and when he is a face still resorts to some heel tactics. So what is your point on that one?

The joke was implying that kids still wear Cena merchandise. Fruity Pebble was my nice way of trying to not insult Cena/Cenas little fans, but of course you being so serious and oh so highly intelligent..Catch any sarcasm yet? ... you wouldn't be able to decipher any of this.



And as far as your work taking you a lot of places I wonder exactly what "work" this is where you would be driving around that much since from SD to LA on a good day can take several hours. And let's face it traffic is never "best day". And if you are doing all of this driving how exactly do you observe said "people". Because last I checked when you are driving the freeways there are usually sound-walls along the way to muffle the freeway noise. At least that's what it is like on the 23/118, and a bit of the 101. Not so much yet in the Ventura area but I'm sure they'll get going on that again. So again, where I am in Southern Cali I see quite a few Viper shirts. For all of your "travel" for business you do I again wonder exactly how many common people you run into. Because that is sure a lot of traveling. Of course if you are in LA during business hours how many people would you run into since majority of people would either be in WORK attire or at SCHOOL. And if you are forced to drive all of that during the weekend then well. I pity you. Oh and that red line under your writing. That would mean you had a typo. I'll assume that since you travel oh so much spelling isn't a serious issue but um that "fueding" he did with HHH. Is it the same FEUDING he and HHH engaged in?

You claim to be an Orton fan, yet you subject his first title reign to Swaggers!? Seems rather questionable to me. Swagger and Orton's reigns have nothing in common. What did Swagger do? Beat a guy that was essentially crippled. What did Orton do? Put on a tremendous match again THE BEST TECHNICAL Wrestler in the world. And don't try to say Benoit carried that match because it was amazing on both sides. Swagger may have held his belt for a couple months as opposed to Orton but can you tell me what Swagger has done since? Orton has remained at the top. So to even put Swagger and Orton in the same SENTENCE to me shows you aren't an Orton fan by any stretch. And me? and Orton fanboy? If I'm a "fanboy" of anyone it's gotta be Dolph Ziggler. Or even Ryder for his initiative to take charge and get noticed.

If you must know I am speaking of Ventura, Simi, Moorpark, Westlake, Agoura Hills, Santa Paula, Chatsworth, Camarillo, and surrounding areas. Maybe for you next time I'll try to snap a picture via freeway of the multitudes of people. Because according to you there are SO many people that you come in contact with when traveling on the freeway.

 

[The Champ]

2. Randy Orton does not (never did and never will) have the ability to put on great matches or carry feuds.

This is just not true. I'm not a big Orton fan, but he's put on some tremendous matches this year, and he's helped carry feuds with the likes of Triple H and Cena before. His character is a little more limited now as a face, but that applies to a lot of people. But go watch Orton kiss Stephanie while Triple H is handcuffed and tell me he can't carry a feud.

He's not a Cena-like draw by any means, but the guy is over and having him maintain some kind of a top spot makes sense. I am enjoying the fact that they're pushing Show over him right now, as I like Show and I think he can be way more entertaining than a lot of people think. But Orton will be back up in the main event scene again. It's just a matter of time.

 

[The Future Rises]

Randy Orton is not the best in the world like a lot of delusional fans like to think he his, but he's pretty damn good.

The WWE are doing the smartest thing right now, not booking Orton as an unbeatable John Cena-like babyface. Fans were actually slowly starting to turn on him, I could have sworn I heard some boos during his entrance on Raw a few weeks back.

This feud with Barrett is by no means the WWE giving up on Orton or anything like that, it's just the WWE giving Orton something to do and making Wade Barrett look good in the process. This feud can really go somewhere, I'm pretty much sure it's gonna end up with Orton getting a clean PPV win but it's still a great way to reintroduce Barrett to the upper midcard level he used to be in.

And about Orton not having the ability to put on great matches, what the hell are you smoking? He's put on fantastic high quality matches this year more than anyone else on the roster. Like I said, he's not the best in the world no one is, but he's pretty damn good.

 

[oldhamandy1]

Orton isn't about to leave come on, the internet is full of people pretending they know all about the wrestling business and I think the OP is one. I admit I have no idea what goes on backstage, and what makes a good wrestler. I know what I like and that's what I go off, maybe some people should be more honest about their level of knowledge. I liked Orton on Raw and don't like him as much now he's a face but he still entertaining.

As for all these merch sales being branded about the place, so far if you include all the threads Orton has beaten Cena, but not Punk. Punk was top only on shirts, which someone later argued against. Cena was beated by Zack Ryder according to another, so I must admit I refuse to listen to anyone when they brandy these 'facts' about.

Orton still gets cheered, that is obvious to anyone with the sound levels above mute. And if your tele is on mute then no-one gets cheered and WWE is buggered, but in real terms he is behind Cena but only him. Orton's number 2, he's Ronaldo, Cenas Messi. By the way all this Cena doesn't put people over, didn't he spend like 6 months putting Nexus over?

One more question to the OP, you said you hope he's not in the title pitcure again you just want him to put guys over? Someone who knows more than me can answer this, is it possible as to do both? Unless of course your a legend and a part-timer, surley you have to fiqure in the title picture otherwise after a few years it would be no big thng, or am I way of the mark with that one?

 

[xoxo French Kiss xoxo]

A bash Randy Orton thread? this is new.

heres my two cents.

Orton is without a doubt the best wrestler the WWE has to offer, I'm talking strictly in ring wrestling. He's got the size and strength to pull off just about any move on almost every one he faces. His finisher can be hit in a variety of ways to make it new and exciting to see during his matches. There are plenty of other great wrestlers in the WWE, but none as versatile as Orton.

He's managed to pull good matches out of Kane, Henry and Khali in the past few months.

Orton isn't selfish. He put Henry over cleanly, TWICE FFS. He's lost to Rhodes and Barrett several times over the past few months to help elevate them to the next level. He goes out and he gives his all every time he's in the ring and makes not only himself but his opponent look good.

Orton isn't being depushed, or punished. Orton is helping establish future stars by feuding with them and giving them a rub.

Everyone's beloved CM Punk wouldn't be near his level of popularity that he's at now if it wasn't for feuding with Orton leading into WM27 and briefly after.

Christians feud with Orton helped not only make Christian relevant, but it also helped Christian produce some of the best work of his career both in ring and on the mic.

They pointed out that coming off the height of Legacy that Rhodes wasn't shit, period and how over the past year he's improved greatly. The feud with Orton only helped establish Rhodes more.

Wade Barrett looks to be next in line to benefit from a feud with Orton.

Despite if you like Orton or not, you have to understand that he's good for the business. You can say that he doesn't draw, than his merchandise doesn't sale, but if that were true he would have been moved out of the lime light a long time ago. The WWE is doing smart business and using Orton to help get some younger guys over.

 

[newteenforbb]

One more question to the OP, you said you hope he's not in the title pitcure again you just want him to put guys over? Someone who knows more than me can answer this, is it possible as to do both? Unless of course your a legend and a part-timer, surley you have to fiqure in the title picture otherwise after a few years it would be no big thng, or am I way of the mark with that one?

Orton doesn't need to do both. He has had more than enough (and more than he deserved) runs with both championships. I think those days are over. If he is to be of any use to the WWE through 2012 and 2013, it should be in feuds with upper mid-card superstars in order to put them over.

He needs to lose to Barrett clean (hopefully on a bigger stage like a TLC PPV) and then perhaps be placed in a feud with Ziggler and/or Rhodes again and have them go over as well.