Is The New ECW Officially A Flop? *MERGED*

[Mania23OffThaHook]

so i just read the results for December To Dismember and I must say WOW. not the good way its more like the bad WOW. they did a good job with the Hardyz/MNM match which was almost half an hour and the crowd sounded really into it. but between that and the main event the rest of the show was pretty much crap except for sandman caning kevin thorne all the way to the back. and even the elimination chamber sounded OK but nothing to write home about. i know rvd and sabu are in hot water (sabu's probably already been fired) but c'mon. at least with rvd and cm punk they could have down some sweet moves. dreamer vs daivari and balls vs striker are matches that wouldnt get much interest even on tuesday night. and you have people booing and chanting TNA... ouch. on top of that all of the ECW originals are unhappy with the direction of the brand, tazz and styles are taken off survivor series for whatever reason. oh yeah and vince wants higher ratings. so the "new ECW" has been going strong for almost half a year and this is where we're at. hmmm. ok i was never one of the hardcore loyal ECW fans from back in the day but i watched a good number of matches and those fans have to be disgusted. i realize extreme rules matches cause injuries and shorten careers but this just aint workin. and you know wwe's going to try and make it work becuz they dont want the new ECW to be considered a failure. it just seems like they could have down so much more with the brand and the storylines. even if they only get 1 hour a week they could have down a little more dont you think? so can we all officially say the "new breed unleashed" is a flop? i wanted to see it become a huge success just like everybody else. maybe they should just make up some storyline about the brand being disbanded get rid of the guys that never get used and put the rest of the talent on RAW and SmackDown. what does everyone else think should and will happen to ECW in the future?

 

[henrywang693]

ECW when first re-created by WWE was not meant to be a flag ship program. But with that being said, this new brand has not lived up to exceptions. The fact that it is only one hour long really inhibits creative from really doing there thing. And yes, that PPV blew ass, excpet for the 1st match.

 

[xDJx]

i have nothing to say just that wwe needs to get on the ball and make ecw as graphic as it was back in the days this is just fuckin lame and yes the 1st match was the best

 

[CCFC Bluebirds]

I was so pumped when i heard the news that ECW was being brought back however i did have a few reservations, but after the first couple of shows i thought that the new ECW was great, but now it is really really bad it's just like watching an episode of Smackdown - and god i hate Smackdown. People don't want to see Test, Hardcore Holly, Matt Stryker and ex Smackdown bums wrestling in ECW. I thought that the new ECW was going to start to produce or introduce new up and coming stars onto the show? They have to a certain to degree with CM Punk but most people knew about him before anyway. One last thing, ECW was well known for it's violent and fast paced action packed wrestling matches but were just getting poor, slow submission move matches, which just stinks of WWE. One thing that really has blown my top is the introduction of Extreme Rulz matches, firstly because in the old ECW every match was extreme and not just specific ones and secondly we would be lucky to see an Extreme Rulz match once every two weeks.

 

[gunnerg]

ECW really sucks ass, its even worse than SmackDown. Im not a fan of the seprate rosters idea it would be much better if Raw was 3 hours and they just put guys like undertaker, kane etc.. with the raw guys, they get twice the ratings they do now for all 3 brands and it wouldnt suck so bad. Im WWE till i die but TNA is really kickin WWE's ass at the minute for feuds and entertainment (apart from DX. who should invade TNA like they did wCw)

 

[The Chlamydia Kid]

See now, I would agree with you guys if you werent such morons, no offense. You talk about ECW being like Smackdown in a bad way. When was the last time you turned on Smackdown. If there is one thing you can count on @ Smackdown it is seeing atleast 1 good, long match every week. It is a lot more wrestling oriented and to me far more exciting to watch than 1998 replays of RAW that we see today.

As long as ECW band goes I think WWE dropped the ball with it. But at the same time I think that the old school ECW fans and just wrestling fans in general have set 2 high of exectations for it. You are never going to see ECW the way it was 10 years ago and you can either deal with it or not watch the show. Bitching about it won't help because you that bitch about it are a minority who Vince McMahon could give a shit less about. And for a good reason if I may add. The way I see ECW dropping the ball is failing to franchise itself. They are having their shows played on a channel that pretty much advertises violence and blood. They could put on a lot edgier shows with more blood, riskier style of wrestling, more sex, etc.

I mean, right now you have SD, a solid wrestling show. You have RAW,a flagship show, mostly etertainment based for people all ages and all that crap. Why not make ECW differnet than both of those? Make it badass, dark style of wrestling, with more blood, more violence, edgy storylines, something that will make people talk about it. To be honest, I could really care less who is on the show. It can be Sabu, Rob Van Dam or Test, I don't care as long as they have a purpose of being there. Wrestlers can only do so much. Bookers are the ones who give direction to the product.

Also, when I look at SD and RAW I see 1990s shows. One being New School 1990s and 1 being old school 1990s (1980s). We are in year 2006 (almost 2007) now. Lets make a third show fit the time. Bring in some MMA fighters, get the music more involved into the shows, play into the interests of todays teenage society. Thats the way you win people over.

But as long as measuring success goes, how can you say that ECW flopped. Hell, they have killed TNA in ratings every week since they started in June. People watch ECW a lot more than they watch TNA. But I think that it has so much more to offer.

 

[Jerry]

God from this discussion, I am so glad I didnt waste my money on tonights show...

 

[ktownsfinest424]

So dam what the hell happened to Sabu....This ppv seriously fucking dropped the ball....Man Vince shape up please...I have been a WWE loyalist since the Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior days....I like TNA but hell please dont ever let them be competition ever...

 

[Kasey]

See now, I would agree with you guys if you werent such morons, no offense. You talk about ECW being like Smackdown in a bad way. When was the last time you turned on Smackdown. If there is one thing you can count on @ Smackdown it is seeing atleast 1 good, long match every week. It is a lot more wrestling oriented and to me far more exciting to watch than 1998 replays of RAW that we see today.

Not to ruffle feathers, but I've watched Smackdown each week for the past few years and it is horrendous these days. I mean, does anyone remember the days when Edge took on Eddie in a classic ladder match? I sure as hell do. That's when Smackdown was amazing to me. Or Lesnar versus Angle in a televised Iron Man match? One long match (and quality of the length is debatable) is okay, but out of a two-hour broadcast? That's a lousy, lousy ratio. Especially when the show has a wealth of under-utilized or just plain misused talent that's walked that aisle in recent years. Benoit as a midcarder? Give me a break. Any show that has Dianabol Dave at the helm is definitely not going to break any new or even decent ground with me.

But at the same time I think that the old school ECW fans and just wrestling fans in general have set 2 high of exectations for it. You are never going to see ECW the way it was 10 years ago and you can either deal with it or not watch the show. Bitching about it won't help because you that bitch about it are a minority who Vince McMahon could give a shit less about. And for a good reason if I may add. The way I see ECW dropping the ball is failing to franchise itself. They are having their shows played on a channel that pretty much advertises violence and blood. They could put on a lot edgier shows with more blood, riskier style of wrestling, more sex, etc.

We original ECW fans have a right to bitch about it. I loved the company and always got our money's worth for PPV's and was always entertained with the TV programs, whether it was the Sunshine Network broadcasts or the TNN show. Wrestlezone is the place to come discuss these things...or bitch if you will. You're highlighted portion here is the smartest thing you've said as it gets to the point I have been trying to bang into the heads of the rest of the mooks around here for months. That description IS what ECW was. Almost to a T.

I mean, right now you have SD, a solid wrestling show. You have RAW,a flagship show, mostly etertainment based for people all ages and all that crap. Why not make ECW differnet than both of those? Make it badass, dark style of wrestling, with more blood, more violence, edgy storylines, something that will make people talk about it. To be honest, I could really care less who is on the show. It can be Sabu, Rob Van Dam or Test, I don't care as long as they have a purpose of being there. Wrestlers can only do so much. Bookers are the ones who give direction to the product.

You're very right, but yet again, preaching to the choir and saying the exact thing the old-school ECW fans have been saying from the get-go. ECW's only problem in its original tenure was mismanagement with regards to finances. The promotion was over like nothing ever seen in the United States. That end of the bargain was working like a charm. The handling of the business aspect was what sucked. If you mixed McMahon's marketing and exposure with that product, it'd be f*cking scary.

Also, when I look at SD and RAW I see 1990s shows. One being New School 1990s and 1 being old school 1990s (1980s). We are in year 2006 (almost 2007) now. Lets make a third show fit the time. Bring in some MMA fighters, get the music more involved into the shows, play into the interests of todays teenage society. Thats the way you win people over.

But as long as measuring success goes, how can you say that ECW flopped. Hell, they have killed TNA in ratings every week since they started in June. People watch ECW a lot more than they watch TNA. But I think that it has so much more to offer.

MMA fighters were brought into ECW back in 1996 when Taz made the Polar Bear tap out. The music was top notch and was light years cooler than anything the WWE does as ECW used actual band's songs with no restrictions to what a wrestler could enter to. That was half of the fun of watching Sandman come to the ring. It was a goddamn sing-along to Metallica while he pounded beers en route to caning someone's ass. No one knows how disgusting to me it is to see Balls Mahoney not come down to the ring to AC/DC anymore.

They have killed TNA in the ratings, you're correct. However, TNA's ratings stay fairly consistent, which means they aren't necessarily losing their audience, but are at least maintaining. ECW's started out in the 3's and are now in the 1's. That means they've lost the equivalent number of TNA's whole fanbase inside of six months. That's not upward growth in any sense of the phrase. That means a large portion of WWE and TNA's fanbase wants nothing to do with the show as the RAW/Smackdown crowd's lead-in ratings have vanished like a fart in the breeze.

 

[The Chlamydia Kid]

Let me correct you on several things. We seem to agree on most of stuff but TNA ratings are consistent, true, the only problem with that is that they are consistently low. ECW might get 1.5 one week, 1.9 the next, but those are atleast somewhat competitive numbers. Getting 0.8 one week then 0.9 the next is not something to be proud of nor is it something that will grant you a long term success.

ECW was more hype than it was good back in the day. Sure, the fans got their moneys worth, but they weren't paying all that much to begin with. Seeing people fly off rafters and crash through tables is fun but most of the times it was just minless, reckless entertainment. When we watch ECW highlights these days we hear about the great storylines such as Raven Vs Dreamer, we hear about great matches such as RVD Vs Sabu, we hear about all the things ECW innovated back in the day (a lot of which were done in Japan), but what we don't hear is all the garbage that ECW spat out. What about the Taipei deathmatch, or mindless New Jack hardcore matches. The list goes on and on...

What I am trying to say is that new ECW had a chance to stay away not only from WWE-esque entertainment style but also stay away from the old ECW garbage wrestling. You have a guy like Paul Heyman who is extremely creative, and you have some of the top talent in the world working there yet you can't come up with 2 shows that don't look alike. To me, thats just bullshit. So yeah, there are some themes from the old ECW that work well, sex, violence, blood, but those are just basics concepts. To actually incorporate those into the product you need to create storylines that people will care about, and think about what todays wrestling fans like and not what they used to like back in 80s and 90s.

 

[Wall_of_Jericho]

I would say without a doubt the answer is "Yes!"

It should not be called ECW, with it being called ECW then fans like me will always try and link it and compare it to the past. And always expect it to one day to go back to it's glory days but there aint no way that's gonna happen with Vinnie Mac in charge.

 

[Downward Spiral]

This is from another thread that I posted in. I just get so angry at people who continue to be upset that ECW is not the way it used to be and I expressed it in this rant, although I know Kasey will probably pull it apart and blast it lol.

For the last time:
THEY CANNOT EVER GO BACK TO THE WAY THEY WERE AND HOW ECW WAS. IF THEY DID, THEY WOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR THE HOSPITAL BILLS AND PAY THE WRESTLERS WHEN THEY GET INJURED DOING STUPID SHIT THAT THEY DID BEFORE. IT IS COMMON SENSE THAT IT IS NEVER GOING TO BE THE SAME, SO GET OVER IT!!! NOT ALL FANS, INCLUDING CHILDREN, WANT TO SEE THAT HARDCORE STUFF ANYMORE, AND VINCE IS NOT GOING TO SHELL OUT THE STUFF TO THE MINORITY OF WRESTLING FANS (SMARKS) EVER, SO STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT IT. AND DON'T FORGET PAUL HEYMAN. HE STARTED ECW, SO IF HE WAS UNHAPPY NOW, HE WOULD HAVE QUIT SO IT'S NOT JUST VINCE WHO RUNS ECW. THE ORIGINALS ARE TOO OLD TO HAVE ANY SORT OF ROLE IN WWECW AND PROBABLY DON'T WANT TO. THERE IS NOT ENOUGH OF THEM, SO THAT IS WHY YOU SEE NEW FACES ON ECW - GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD THAT THERE WOULD BE NO ONE ON ECW IF IT WAS JUST ORIGINALS SO THAT IS WHY YOU SEE GUYS LIKE KNOX AND THORN, AND NOT MANY HATE CM PUNK WHO IS NEW AS WELL. IF PEOPLE HATE THE WWE SO MUCH, JUMP OVER TO TNA FOR ALL I CARE. IF YOU CANNOT SEE ANYTHING, LIKE THIS ECW, FROM ANYONE ELSES POINT OF VIEW EXCEPT YOUR OWN, FIRST GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND THEN CUT THE INTERNET CORD SO YOU CAN JUST SIT THERE AND ENJOY WRESTLING INSTEAD OF COMPLAINING ABOUT IT. FURTHERMORE, YOU CANNOT EXPECT ANYTHING FROM A 1 HOUR SHOW THAT PLAYS THE LITTLE SISTER ROLE TO THE BIG SHOWS, SO DON'T EXPECT A GENERATION OF HARDCORE WRESTLERS TO COME ANYMORE AND MAKE A BRILLIANT SHOW. THE ONLY THING I WOULD AGREE WITH THE COMPLAINERS OUT THERE IS THAT THE NAME SHOULD BE CHANGED - SIMPLY TO STOP PEOPLE TALKING SHIT AND EXPECTING BETTER OF SOMETHING THAT COMMON SENSE WOULD SUGGEST CANNOT DO. IN SHORT, ECW WILL NEVER BE HARDCORE FOR MANY REASONS....EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW, LOOK AT THE INDONESIAN INCIDENT. DO YOU THINK THAT THE WWE WOULD WANT KIDS TO BE IMITATING THE HARDCORE STUFF? THINK OF THE COMPLAINTS AND THAT IS ONE LIABILITY THE WWE ARE TRYING TO AVOID. PARENTS WOULD NEVER LET THEIR CHILDREN WATCH WRESTLING IF THEY SAW REAL ECW STUFF AND THE SCI-FI CHANNEL KNOWS THAT. THE ONE THING I THINK THEY CAN BRING IN IS MORE HARDCORE PPV'S WHERE THEY ARE ABLE TO SHOW OFF THAT STUFF ONCE A YEAR, BUT THAT IS STILL NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. WWE CUT THE CRAP WHEN THEY BOUGHT ECW SO YOU SHOULDN'T EXPECT THEM TO RESORT TO THE OLD ECW, NO MATTER HOW POPULAR/CONTROVERSIAL. THE ENTERTAINMENT PART IS WHAT MAKES WWE MORE POPULAR THAN TNA AND WWE WOULD BE STUPID TO IGNORE THAT.

 

[travelerthe]

Watching ECW has become like going to the county fair.
You will see the rare talent there on it's way up but mostly you see talent that used to sell out arenas now lucky to even get a gig.

If it wasn't presented as ECW then it might pass inspection. I know it will never be the old ECW but this version doesn't even come close.

 

[CKess316]

WWE got my hopes up about the new ECW brand. Sure they had some things giong against it, like talk of aliens and vampires, but I was psyched when Joey Styles delivered that speech on RAW when he "quit". RVD carried the WWE title and the ECW title. One Night Stand 2006 was true to form for the most part. Things were looking up. So what happened?

Here's what made ECW stand out before:

-no DQ
-no countouts
-clean finishes
-blood
-exciting matches
-big spots
-technical wrestling
-violence

pretty much everything that young males ages 14-48 want to see

so what does ECW do now
-DQ at least half their matches
-countout another quarter of them
-there are clean finishes, but when the matches are streamlined under WWE rules, nobody really wins
-blood is spray painted on
-matches blow
-big spots are non existant
-technical wrestling left with kurt angle
-RAW is more violent

basically, ECW is just a way to make WWE look more violent in comparison. Unless you're on RAW and/or in with the McMahons/DX kliq, you ain't going anywhere. This is like WCW circa 1997....only a little less fun

 

[Wall_of_Jericho]

Here's what made ECW stand out before:

-no DQ
-no countouts
-clean finishes
-blood
-exciting matches
-big spots
-technical wrestling
-violence

Another few things you forgot that made ECW stand out before.

- Small areans
- No flashy lights
- No pyros
- Real fan interaction

The fact the new ECW gets filmed before Smackdown each week in 20,000 seater arenas just doesn't give the close to the action, intense atmosphere you got with ECW of old.

 

[edward2k7]

just look at how bad vince screwed up the whole wcw thing, back with the invasion storyline where raw was part wwe wrestling and then had like buff bagwell vs booker in the main event. vince did nothing but screw that up and killed wcw off within a year, along with the ecw brand that joined in the invasion storyline then.

mcmahon knows nothing but to make his show raw & smackdown look good, and to make his wwe ppv's look really good. he will never let a ecw show or ppv top one of his shows.

i just wish heyman would get his head out of the mcmahons ass (or pocket book) and just disband ecw b4 it gets any worse, or least buy back the rights and start from scratch...i can only wonder what styles & heyman really think of vince and the wwe, i bet vince pays them alot just so they dont say something.

 

[PlatynumX420]

you left out the most important thing that made ecw stand out before: paul heyman had the final say in anything as apposed to now where its mcmahon. it was about the extreme not entertainment unlike the alleged 'thats not extreme thats entertainment' said by vince on the ppv last night( i dont know i didnt get it and apparently i didnt miss much :s)

 

[theiceman]

Personally, I think people are way too hard on the new ECW. The brand was created less then 6 months ago. The problem that I think that most people have with the new ECW is that it's not like the old ECW. When we saw the ECW One Night Stand Pay Per View in 2005 and even in 2006, it was at least a little bit like the old ECW(though not quite). It was advertised to be like the old ECW. The brand on the other hand when it was brought back for good WAS NOT advertised as being like the old ECW at all. Paul Heyman when addressing the crowd....and Vince McMahon when addressing the press clearly said that it wasn't going to be like the old ECW. It was advertised everywhere(on commercials, etc.) as a "new breed unleashed". I think when ECW came back though, most people ignored the description of the new brand and just put emphasis on the name of the brand. It would be just like if Smackdown were to change it's name to "WCW" right now for example....no matter what you call it, it's not going to be a different show just because it's called something different.

If you're hoping that one day, ECW will miraculously become more and more like it was in the 90's....i'm sorry but you're never gonna see that day. I could give a shit less if the show that comes on SciFi every tuesday night is called "Extreme Championship Wrestling", "Extremely Crappy Wrestling", or "ShitShow" for that matter, recognize it as just another brand of WWE programming because that's all it is and that's all that it will be.

Without this third brand, ECW....as far as guys like The Big Show, RVD, Sabu, The Sandman, Matt Striker, Daivari, Balls Mahoney, Bobby Lashley, Test, Hardcore Holly, or even divas like Ariel and Trinity are concerned do you actually think these people would be getting the same opportunities if they were on Raw or Smackdown? CM Punk and other deserving guys would be stuck in the fray. You see how painful that is right now for a guy like Shelton Benjamin who is just stuck in the fray on Raw of "Intercontinental Title contenders". You need this third brand of wrestling to get these guys on TV in a better spot. Think about it.....if ECW didn't exist, the majority of these guys wouldn't even have jobs right now.

As a wrestling fan that would like to see as much performers showcased on as many different stages as possible, I like the new ECW and those other guys should too. It's an opportunity for them. In that respect, I wouldn't call the new ECW a flop. It's too early into it to call it a flop.

 

[Cboogie]

It is being reported that Paul E. has been sent home and they r making it sound like he is done with ECW and it starting to really sound like ECW is dead. Im interested to c what happens on ECW tomorrow and also if anything is mentioned tonight.

 

[Wall_of_Jericho]

It is being reported that Paul E. has been sent home and they r making it sound like he is done with ECW and it starting to really sound like ECW is dead. Im interested to c what happens on ECW tomorrow and also if anything is mentioned tonight.

Wonder if something dumb will happen like Vince appoint a new GM of ECW. Someone like Eric Bischoff...yeah that'll make sense Vince.

 

[Cboogie]

Sadly this is the demise of ECW it was going to fail no matter what because WWE tried to make it something its not. Vince was just trying to make some money and he just pulled another xfl but not as bad.

 

[Andrew V1]

I dont mean to be a bit of a jerk here but this aint the ecw room sorry lol

 

[iamwrestling]

Sadly, there are still a small amount of people who actually thought that it would succeed. I mean, how can a company based entirely around extreme rules not have extreme rules in every match? It makes no sense. Big Show as champion? Come on now. Let's have a little more sense than that. McMahon is a complete idiot. He thinks he can throw together any piece of crap and get people to watch, well that's why ratings are slipping on ECW and Smackdown and Raw ratings are low (for Raw anyways. Still high, but Raw would like much higher than that). I really can't wait for WWECW to die. It's ridiculous and firing Heyman after giving him absolutely no control in the first place is just another ridiculous move.

 

[Cboogie]

yeah any 1 see Heyman goin to TNA. that would be a perfect fit or at least it would be entertaining. he would have some great input and we could hear what really ahppened. im actually excited about this to see whats gonna happen.

 

[PlatynumX420]

McMahon is a complete idiot

i'd use the word fucktard personally. mcmahon thinks he knows what the fans want and he doesnt have a clue.i know i ve never said anything all that positive about tna but i wish tna would grow to the size(fanbase and financialy) of wwe and get a competitive timeslot against raw and kick wwe's ass in the ratings. i m about to defect to watching tna if Heyman did get let go. i was starting to appreciate wwecw for what it is and not what it used to be .

imagine heyman and russo writing for tna.....ack what am i saying?? *smacks self*