Is now the best time to turn Cena heel?

Look, I'm the biggest Cena fan with the next guy. But let's face it, Cena hasn't been heel since 2002-2003 & Cena's heel character was what made me his fan & made him my favorite WWE Superstar. He then evolved into a face, still edgy though. (anybody remember 2004-2007? Feuds with JBL? Kurt Angle? HHH? RVD? HBK? JBL? And the feud with Orton Pre-Super-Cena era?) Cena NEEDS this, WWE NEEDS this. And having Cena vs. The Rock will gain get HUGE RATINGS, HUGE BUYRATES! I myself am still a Cena fan, he's my favorite superstar but I want to see Cena turn HEEL! Dammit, Vince, do something! I really hope some of the WWE Creative Team's members read these forums so they can see that even the biggest Cena fans want to see a Cena heel turn.
 
I liked the idea of somebody who said Cena cheats to win over Taker at WM 28.

So what if Vince announces himself to be the Guest Referee for Wrestlemania 28, then Taker tombstones Cena but Vince stops the count at two. Cena then low blows Taker and Cena shakes hands with Vince. Then Cena lifts Taker up for the FU and then he pins him by using the rope AND a Vinny Mac fast count. Ultimate (kayfabe) screwjob and that will get people to boo Cena out of the arena louder than One Night Stand 2006. If Vince says it would have to be the biggest turn in history, what better way?

And like others said- a great heel makes a great face. How epic would Austin have been without Vince? How epic would Rocky have been without HHH? Not as much. Cena could make Morrison the next great face if Cena is this gigantic heel.
 
You all make very valid points about Cena's heel turn but I think it won't happen. As far as t-shirt sales, they would go down. Would some people buy his shirt? Of course but the bulk of where they make their money, the under 10 population would not and why? Because unlike us older fans who don't have the ability to not criticize the show for the backstage info we like to think we have, kids watch and take the show at face value. Whoever is a bad guy is a bad guy and whoever isn't, isn't.

Second, the idea of Cena being heel for beating up the Rock isn't positive either. Going back to his under 10 population, most of which who don't know or care about that Rock, wouldn't care if he beat the Rock up. This idea that everyone in the world loves the Rock is just plain dumb. There are dare I say, some people out there who don't love the Rock especially the people who are pretty damn sure he won't stick around after Mania. Just like there are people who actually want Hunter to end Taker's streak (shock I know). In fact the Raw after Mania will probably be the last one he's on. Think about it, you think the WWE would waste a Cena/Rock which has been called a dream match on WWE television or a PPV like Judgement Day? Extreme Rules ect when they could have done it at Mania? HELL NO.

Third, it's not so much about Cena's t-shirt sales as it is the way WWE has marketed him. He is the Make-A-Wish Foundation Ambassador, you think WWE is going to jeopardize the relationship they have built and Cena has made with the kids for a heel turn that as someone said, isn't needed. Could he still do that as a heel? Sure but why would they? Can he even be the ambassador when the kids stop "wishing" to meet Cena cause he's not a good guy anymore? The WWE is going to please their newer generation of fans over their older, why? They know the attitude era fans are getting older and on their way out! Because the 30 year old man who is watching is not going to spend over 100 bucks on merchandise, isn't going to pay 40-45 bucks for every ppv and go to 3 or 4 or more shows a year. It will be those 5 and 6 year old fans of Cena's that will be doing that stuff. And those 5-6 year old fans who will still be watching in 10 years. WWE wants to get the parent watch groups off their back about how dangerous, aggressive wrestling is, so they went PG. To stay PG, they need a role-model for the kids. That is what Cena's gimmick is for. From what I have seen the only wrestler parent's do approve of is John Cena. It isn't for us it's for the kids, never back down, never quit. No matter how likable Randy Orton is, no one is going to want their children to "look up" to Randy Orton or many of the other babyfaces.

One last thing is that Cena would have to WANT to turn heel. He has a lot of pull in the backstage area "supposedly" so I would assume he would have a say in whether or not he wanted to do it and from what I can tell and what Cena has always said. He could care less what people think and he doesn't have to. Unless viewership actually goes down because of JOHN CENA and nothing else but John Cena, they have no reason to change. Cena fighting Morrison, fighting Truth, whoever isn't enough to make him a heel, faces fight eachother all the time, no one cares anymore, they will cheer for who they want. The only real way for him to be heel is if he talks crap about the fans and face it, THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
 
Miz winning at Mania won't make him this huge mega star? Please back this up. How, just how, can one become more established than retaining the title against Cena in the main event at Mania? In a way I see him now as Orton was three years ago. While he was becoming bigger and bigger, Orton retaining the WWE title at Mania against Cena AND Trips, IMO, solidified him into where he is now. Miz MAY fall down the ladder if he loses at Wrestlemania. You wanna give Cena the title? Do it at Extreme Rules. But do you know how much credibility the Miz would have by beating Cena?

1. Undertaker vs HHH is the mainevent
2. Win, lose, or draw the Miz winning wont make him a "Huge Mega Star"

Huge Mega Stars
Austin
Rock
Hogan
Savage
Piper
Cena
Flair
Andre the Giant

Not one of these guys became that overnight not one, and the Miz has not had any memorable feuds previously to make a victory over cena the icing on his cake to being a mega star, If anything the Miz is on his first layer.
 
1. Undertaker vs HHH is the mainevent
2. Win, lose, or draw the Miz winning wont make him a "Huge Mega Star"

Huge Mega Stars
Austin
Rock
Hogan
Savage
Piper
Cena
Flair
Andre the Giant

Not one of these guys became that overnight not one, and the Miz has not had any memorable feuds previously to make a victory over cena the icing on his cake to being a mega star, If anything the Miz is on his first layer.

You act as if the Miz winning at Wrestlemania does absolutely NOTHING for the Miz. But I think this will cement Miz's status as a permanent main eventer if he wins at Wrestlemania. Vince wants Miz to be the next face of the company? Best way to start is if he beats Cena IMO. If you ask me, the difference between Miz moving down the ladder and staying a maineventer is if he wins or loses.
 
You act as if the Miz winning at Wrestlemania does absolutely NOTHING for the Miz. But I think this will cement Miz's status as a permanent main eventer if he wins at Wrestlemania. Vince wants Miz to be the next face of the company? Best way to start is if he beats Cena IMO. If you ask me, the difference between Miz moving down the ladder and staying a maineventer is if he wins or loses.

It will do something for his career but that will NOT get him over with the crowd and we already know that. The idea that Miz beating Cena will somehow make him into this huge BABYFACE star which was what the original post was about is just ridiculous. The only people who give a damn about Miz's career are Miz fans. Does he have talent? Sure he does and he's great on the mic, but that will never be enough of a reason for me to actually like him and a lot of other people feel the same.
 
Is this topic really that important that there has to be a thread about it evey week? Now we have to have a thread on it twice in one day WWE is not going to turn the top face of their company and top merchandice selling character heel not gonna happen. Not until they have somebody that can match him or surpass him in popularity, or bringing in the money its just not gonna happen.
 
It would make Raw more interesting for sure, but will Vince allow it? As we all know Cena is the King when it comes to merchandise sales in the company. That would probably greatly impact that. Even though it's just scripted entertainment some of those kiddos take it pretty seriously when it comes to baby faces. At least it seems that way. :shrug:
 
Does Cena need to turn heel right now? Not IMO. I would wager that he has been given the rub from The Rock. Even though his last promo wasn't that great, and the Doctor's Note promo was one of the corniest ever from him, by showing that he can simply hang with The Rock, he has one over a lot of people. Need proof? Read the Cena/Rock thread on this very forum.

Cena won't turn heel until the little kids that like him right now grow up a bit. Similar to what happened to some of us and Hulk Hogan. I remember thinking one day that Hulk Hogan was the corniest thing to ever exist. It was around that time that he joined the NWO. But it took damn near 15 years.

Besides, as pointed out earlier, who can even come close to taking his spot? Stone Cold had The Rock, Hogan had The Macho Man, and Ultimate Warrior. Who does Cena have that can even come close to equaling him in popularity? Orton's not there yet, and probably never will be. Morrison, IMO, doesn't have it in him to be the top man. Triple H is almost done, as is Taker. Cena's basically an island onto himself.
 
@CelticCorey

I love your idea:), This would automatically boost Cena into the top heel of the WWE. Although this would never happen (im 99% sure. You never know the WWE:suspic:) This would be the fastest and easiest way to get Cena over.

Who could take his place? Personally I dont like Orton and think he's the most boring thing in the company, but you can't deny he's over with the crowd. Little kids etc... buy into him as much as Cena and he really could be a suitable replacement.
 
I wouldn't be against a Cena heel turn at WM. It could be great. I mean why not follow up Cena's best year (not championship wise, but story and character-wise) but having him turn heel? It could be perfect, a whole new year of brand new Cena that we haven't seen before, to end all the haters. And speaking of, I can't stand some of these people's sentiments to Cena's "gimmick". I haven't read every post on this thread so sorry if I am copying someone, but some people drive me crazy. Someone earlier said, in the exact same post, that his gimmick is tired and old and stale. Then immediately said they won't turn him heel because he is a huge cash cow and 50% of their sales will be gone. Maybe its just me, but that makes NO SENSE.

Okay, so maybe Cena isn't your demographic. We get it, he appeals to kids and chicks. So what? If they're buying his crap hand over fist he can't be that stale. Obviously his gimmick is working where its supposed to. Creative knows that, hell even Cena knows that on his "last day" after being fired, he asked for the "kids and women" to yell lets go cena, and the "guys" to yell "cena sucks". (which was brilliant by the way).

That all being said, why turn him when he is already stale? What impact will that have? Why bother when even the 4 year olds are thinking "holy crap with this guy, when will he be heel?" WM would be perfect, you want it to be when people will talk about it, not when there is a sigh of relief and people go "okay finally".
 
why turn cena heel? it doesnt really make much sence. yes cena is getting torn apart by rock's promos (him and every other superstar (excluding taker and triple hhh, sice they are at the same level together) ), however turning heel? thats a lil rash, and highly unrealistic. sorry to rain on your parade but cena as heel wouldnt work out to swell now.
 
having a heel rock vs a face cena would be much better i think... Have the rock turn heel and lay out cena with acouple chair shots at wrestlemania and than hug the miz would be much much better...Like said before cena is wwe cash cow and the lil kids love him to much n vince cares about one thing and its MONEY and turning cena heel not a smart idea..

The only flaw here, is that the fans love The Rock so much, that if he were to hug Miz and side with him, fans most likely would start cheering the Miz and ruin him as a heel.
 
The only flaw here, is that the fans love The Rock so much, that if he were to hug Miz and side with him, fans most likely would start cheering the Miz and ruin him as a heel.

The people that would cheer this are the same people that already boo Cena. Cena's younger fans couldn't give two shits about the Rock, he wasn't around when they were watching, he's just the Tooth Fairy to them.

Again, Cena should not and most likely will not go heel anytime soon. No faces to take his spot. Who's going to do Make-A-Wish like he does? The guy has made more wishes than anyone else in history. Every kid in the arena, which is far more than the adults now, have the purple shirt and wristbands and hat. What kind of merchandise would Orton sell? Temporary generic tattoos? He's boring, and really isn't very good. He's over, but not nearly on the level of Cena, despite his super pushes. Sin Cara will be popular, he will sell some masks and such like Rey but he can't talk so that limits him already. They won't give anyone like Kofi or John Morrison a real chance so....looks like we get stale Cena for the foreseeable future.
 
Not necessarily sure as to when it will happen, but a Cena heel turn is inevitabe and has been for a long time. Vince has worked his ass off to try and make sure that Cena is the top babyface and that he stays that way. There's a problem, though...he gets his fair share of boos at arenas and (this is the biggest problem) the fans are tired of him. Michael Cole, as much as I hate to admit it, was right one night on RAW when he said that Cena comes out and says the same crap time and again. Cole is right!! Cena needs a major overhaul to his character. I still think, somehow, someway, his heel turn will get tied to Wade Barrett who brought up the "bigger picture" or the "master plan" recently again on SmackDown. Get Cena to go to SmackDown via the draft, have The Corre beat down on some faces, then have Cena run down the ramp only to join in the beatdown where he is ultimately revealed as the guy who's been coaching Barrett this whole time, including the attack on Undertaker during his Buried Alive match with Kane. This leads to Taker-Cena at SummerSlam or Survivor Series at the latest where the match will be, you guessed it, Buried Alive. I know that we could speculate all day long and come up with storylines as much as we want to. The bottom line is this: A Cena heel turn is inevitable, he is getting booed as much as he getting cheered, his character needs a major overhaul, the fans are tired of his gimmick and tired of him, and finally Vince will have no choice but to go with it. And let's remember this, too, that HHH is over Vince's shoulder and has his ear. Who knows better about doing heel turns the right way than HHH?
 
Revenue??? Are you joking. Cena turns heel, somebody else takes his spot. Do you think they cared when they turned Rock heel in 1998, Austin in 2001?? My only concern is if Cena turns heel, which would be huge, and Cena would pull it off no dramas. But who is there for him to wrestle. I have no problem Alex Riley turning on Miz and going face, gives them something to do, Awesome Kong to be unveiled as Miz bodyguard would be super heel heat. We do not need to see Cena vs Orton over and over, so WWE needs to maybe pull the trigger on John Morrison and Daniel Bryan. Cena gets the wins obviously and retains, and keeps the hatred up for him by having him versus guys who are super over with the masses. CM Punk too could pull a face turn down the track, and whammo have 3 ready made chalenges to keep Cenma and the title stage fresh for Cena vs Rock at Summerslam. Cena retains in that match by the skin of his teeth, and hopefully a rematch at Survivor Series with the belt hopefully off Cena by then. Rock gets the win, one all with the rubber match at Wrestlemania 28. Plenty of time in between for Rock to make a movie. They could play this out for a full year.
 
I'd love for Cena to turn heel at Wrestlemania.Talk about controversy.Millions of kids watching around the world going to bed crying because their Yabba-Dabba-hero turned on them.However,the WWE has to turn Cena heel in a way which 1)doesn't completely rely on The Rock and 2)doesn't turn Miz face.

Let's be honest,The Rock isn't going to stick around and even if he does stick around,the WWE would have to convince him to put his movie career on hold and come back to the ring.I like the idea of Cena beating the crap out of The Rock at Wrestlemania,then going on Raw the next night to tell the fans that they were the ones that turned on him and they can go f*ck themselves(but not in those exact words).The Rock can come out and they can brawl before Vince runs out and tells his 2 most marketable superstars to stop fighting.THEN Vince can turn on The Rock with a low-blow and Cena and Vince can put the beat down on The Rock.Put him out of commission for a while so Rocky can make his Disney movies while Vince echos Cena's sentiments about The Rock ditching his blood and soul to go make movies.Have them tell the fans that they are all fools for buying into The Rock's load of BS and that Cena has busted his ass for 9 years and did everything to win the fans over,and all it took for all the fans to turn on him was someone going "IF YOU SMELLLLLLLL..." Have Cena become Vince's corporate champion.Ditch the purple shirt for suits or a new shirt in a neutral color (white/black).Have him start cursing in his promos and have him change the AA back to the FU and the STF back to the STFU.Hell,they can even use Cena's heel turn to change the WWE title belt.Merchandise sales won't suffer much,believe me.There are more 13-35 year old males watching wrestling than there are 8 year old boys and girls.Just look at all the Rated-R and Orton shirts in the crowd.The majority of the audience are dudes that want to get behind bad-ass wrestlers.

Give The Miz his rematch and have Cena beat Miz clean.That'll elevate Cena's heel status and it can help Miz remain as a heel,because he didn't get screwed over and he can simply keep on boasting his empty boasts.His gimmick simply won't work as a face.The Miz as a face would,to quote The Rock,"Absolutely SUCK."Ever heard of a lovable loudmouth?He can still be in the main event scene,but he'll obviously not be the top heel.He can feud with Morrison and/or Orton for the number 1 contender spot.There wouldn't be a need to push him into mid-card,and even if he does go back to mid-card,so what?There's plenty of good wrestlers for him to improve his in-ring skills and when someone wins the belt off Cena,they can push him back up into the title picture.Better yet,have him become a tweener.Fans love tweeners.

It'll be a great opportunity to push Morrison into the main event because with Cena/Vince as the heel,anyone up against them would get a huge pop.Miz,Morrison and Orton,that's 3 guys that are ready to feud with a heel Cena.That's plenty of feuds that will keep Cena busy until Summerslam for a potential grudge match with The Rock.Rock can win or lose,but Cena and Vince can put Rock out of commission again.Then when Jericho comes back from DWTS,he can feud with Cena.That's 4.Hell,they can even throw Triple H back into the title picture.Have him feel slighted because he busted his ass for over 15 years for Vince and never has Vince ever called him the face of the company.If Triple H decides to retire within the next 12 months,why not have Cena retire him?That's 5 big feuds that can go all the way to Wrestlemania 28,just in time for The Rock to return and layeth the Smacketh Down on Cena's candy ass.Cena doesn't even have to carry the WWE title for the whole year.He can drop it,win it again,and drop it in the Elimination Chamber.The WWE title match at Wrestlemania 28 can be Morrison vs. Miz or even Morrison vs. Miz vs. Orton.

Basically my idea for turning Cena heel resembles Austin's heel turn in 2001,except Cena won't be playing guitar for Vince or hugging Vince.Having Cena become Vince's corporate champion will get him huge heat even from the fans that will cheer the heels no matter what.We may witness the biggest heel in the WWE since the McMahon-Helmsley era.
 
If it was for me i'd make cena heel at this point.......... i thought for this a few days back and this is the best place to share my thoughts with all of you!!!!!!!!!! as the contest between cena , miz and The rock is at its peak the best chance for him to turn heel would be to attack ' THE ROCK" At the grandest stage of them all!!!!! he will be heel in a good fashion but there is one problem we all will booo him as we are doing from 1st as " cena sux , cena can't wrestle etc." but will the kids stop cheering him? rock is heel for all those childrens and i have seen many time children are booing "The rock" are u kidding .... booing the rock?? so, this is a thing to worry about cena will be supercena for children all children idolize him and he makes the most of merchandises!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so, i don't see him turning heel but in wwe anything is possible, isn't it? just my $0.02
 
Look...I don't want to say that I just wrote an article on this...but I just wrote an article on this. If you would like to read it, please do! http://goo.gl/HUDmZ

In order to not make this a spam-tastic post, I should probably mention something worth mentioning...

The Rock is likely the only star big enough to turn Cena heel. Not matter who Cena could try and take out, his loyal fans are going to stick with him. And if he just up and turns out of the blue, it won't make any sense. But the Rock provides Cena and the WWE with an avenue to make it happen. Everyone loves the Rock. The Rock was gone and Cena was around. Cena is pissed that people flocked to the Rock as soon as he showed his face again despite his loyalty to all of them. BAM. Cena disowns the fans. It paves the way for Miz, Morrison, or any of the other potential main eventers to take his spot. This really is an ideal time to turn him heel.
 
Okay so everybody in the IWC is talking about turning John Cena heel & have been for quite some time now. But, Vince McMahon has said that if the time comes to turn Cena heel, he will have to be the biggest heel that WWE, if not all of wrestling/sports-entertainment has ever seen. Now, we all want that, even me, a huge Cena mark since his 2002 debut, but if he turns heel, how do we make him the "Super-heel" that Vince wants?*

Let's see, Michael Cole is a HUGE heel. He makes fun of EVERYBODY! Thinks he's super tough & so manly, rips on the city that RAW/SmackDown/PPV that it's in that night.

Stone Cold was the ultimate beer-drinking, spitting in the face of authority bad ass of wrestling!

Orton was the Legend Killer destroying all legends (most of the time) & bragging.

Then we have Jericho, Angle, HHH, CM Punk, Nexus, etc. All these are great heels, but what does Cena have to do? What will his character be? What will his mannerisms, move-sets, promos be like?*

Discuss, I want to hear tour thoughts.
 
The thing about Cena, is that he is soooo deep in the Mr. Goodguy persona that that leaves both a good way for this to go, and a very difficult way for this to go.

The first would be the hard way to turn him into a great heel. He's in a deep 'face' hole that would be a hard climb out of and hop onto the bad guy's team. It's possible, but gradually getting more heat probably isn't the best option, especially if you're wanting him to be the greatest heel which won't happen over time.

The second would be to take advantage of all the fan support and the WWE universe, and since they're majorly on his side (most of them) a major betrayal and completely switching the fan tide would work out nicely.


I think him losing his cool and destroying the backstage sets, assaulting staff and anyone that gets in his way, possibly including another superstar who happens to be wandering around the back and shoving or hitting him and having it prove to be a hard hit and accidently injuring him for a while.
Someone could come out to the ring and say Cena has lost it and has no regard for anyone else in the back. But again, this makes it hard because he always talks about respect and all that.

Another thought would be to make him extremely cocky. Stop with the smiles, ponding the crowd, get rid of some hundred layers of merchandise on his body and start insulting the rest of the superstars for not being anywhere near his level. Insult some legends, say he's bigger than Austin, screw someone out of a title.


Just a few options.

-
 
I would kinda go down the Brock Lesnar route.

Cena can cut a good heel promo. No, not rapping or any of that crap, he needs to go down the intense route. Anyone who has seen his 'Protoype' gimmick will know what I am talking about. We have also seen Cena give out some VERY intense beatings to Nexus. Do that to a Daniel Bryan, a Randy Orton or a Santino and there is your monster heat.

It would also be nice to see Cena wear a suit once in a while. This goes against everything he currently is. Lets make him corporate and maybe allign him with Vince McMahon. Thats a good way to draw heat.

Finally, put the belt on him, give him a LONG run with plenty of cheating to win. We all tune in to see him get beat.
 
The easiest way to have anybody generate a major amount of heat and be a huge heel is to end Taker's streak, but not cleanly.

Just imagine if Cena does face Taker at WM28 and Cena wins(I wouldn't want him to) using cheap tactics and maybe a weapon behind the ref's back. He'd probably be booed out of every building he would go to.

Besides that, just have him beat up a huge face for no reason and have him cut intense promos and do that for a few weeks and see what you get. Have him make fun of kids in the arena since they're his biggest supporters. Maybe even have him get a bit edgy.
 
Okay so everybody in the IWC is talking about turning John Cena heel

The IWC is talking about it? Oh my! It must be happening! SOON!

& have been for quite some time now.

Maybe not.

But, Vince McMahon has said that if the time comes to turn Cena heel, he will have to be the biggest heel that WWE, if not all of wrestling/sports-entertainment has ever seen.

I honestly think a heel Cena would fall on his face, to be entirely honest. However I must ask, where/when has Vince McMahon said this?

Now, we all want that, even me, a huge Cena mark since his 2002 debut, but if he turns heel, how do we make him the "Super-heel" that Vince wants?*

Let's see, Michael Cole is a HUGE heel. He makes fun of EVERYBODY!

zomgerz pew pew Cole is making fun of people as a heel commentator? Say it ain't so!

Thinks he's super tough & so manly, rips on the city that RAW/SmackDown/PPV that it's in that night.

:lmao: You amuse me, greatly.

Stone Cold was the ultimate beer-drinking, spitting in the face of authority bad ass of wrestling!

Stone Cold wasn't a heel during his prime. :banghead: Really man? Austin was king of the WWE throughout 1997-1999. He had a slight heel run in 2000-2001, in which he and Triple H feuded with The Brothers of Destruction. It wasn't anything particularly fancy.

Orton was the Legend Killer destroying all legends (most of the time) & bragging.

He had a nice run as the Legend Killer, i personally enjoyed it. However if you consider this as one of the greatest heels of all time, you're seriously mistaken.

Then we have Jericho, Angle, HHH, CM Punk, Nexus, etc. All these are great heels, but what does Cena have to do? What will his character be? What will his mannerisms, move-sets, promos be like?*

Hopefully, I never have to witness John Cena as a heel. He draws too much for the WWE, and sells way too many T-shirts.

Discuss, I want to hear tour thoughts.

You've heard them. I think your ideas are ridiculous.
 
:disappointed:

If John Cena turns heel within the next..five years, I'll be shocked. He may not be the draw Steve Austin and Hulk Hogan were, but WWE seems quite happy with where the company is. I'm not talking financially, I'm talking public image. Cena is a hero type, not an anti-hero. He's done a lot for WWE's image, and I think that will be his legacy.

However, I doubt it would be hard to turn him heel. It didn't work with Austin because he was 100% over with the fans. Cena isn't. I know it's unpopular to say, but it's true. His crowd reaction is mixed, even if it's improved over the last year or two. There's still a large portion of the audience that doesn't care for Cena, so I think you could turn him heel, if you wanted to.

I'm not going to draw out some crazy scenario for his heel turn, because I don't think it's coming, at least not in the near future. He means too much to the company in terms of public perception.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,851
Messages
3,300,884
Members
21,726
Latest member
chrisxenforo
Back
Top