Pay Per Ghost
What they f*ck happened in the thread section here
About Daniel Bryan's momentum being culled like bird flu in Guatemala.
Is Madden Kinda Sorta Right?
- Thread starter Pay Per Ghost
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George Steele's Barber
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Didn't read the article. Haven't watched much Raw the last three weeks but here goes:
I miss Daniel Bryan the neurotic, comedy character underdog. I miss his unstable emotions. I miss his social awkwardness. I don't like that he is getting the pretty girl. I love that the fans love him but wish he weren't so comfortable with that. He used to make me laugh and he used to make me think and he used to make me care.
I am not sure if it is possible but I think he can be the best wrestler in the world (as in winning matches) and still be the looney character we grew to embrace. I am not sure if I would slap him before our bouts in Japan right now. He may as well be Cena without the jawline, muscles, or public speaking diploma.
I miss Daniel Bryan the neurotic, comedy character underdog. I miss his unstable emotions. I miss his social awkwardness. I don't like that he is getting the pretty girl. I love that the fans love him but wish he weren't so comfortable with that. He used to make me laugh and he used to make me think and he used to make me care.
I am not sure if it is possible but I think he can be the best wrestler in the world (as in winning matches) and still be the looney character we grew to embrace. I am not sure if I would slap him before our bouts in Japan right now. He may as well be Cena without the jawline, muscles, or public speaking diploma.
I usually agree with Mark Madden. And in cases like this, where I disagreed with him, it turns out that he was still right. He makes his points in a fashion that won't necessarily convince people opposed to his point of view to agree with them. I sympathize, because that's sort of my deal too.
I thought for sure the WWE was giving Daniel Bryan the full-on Jesus Christ treatment. Put the odds against them, and have the crafty face find a way to thwart the powerful bad guy. It's like, the go-to professional wrestling story of the past twenty years, because it works, again and again and again.
Instead, the powerful bad guys make the good guy look like a bitch every week. He never gets even, he gets... neutral. You want to run a disputed title storyline? Madden was right- the ONLY thing Daniel Bryan should be saying for three months is "I'm the real champion. You're a fake champion." Randy Orton goes apeshit. They trade beatings.
Writing really isn't that hard. Once you figure out that we've been telling each other the same dozen stories with different characters since we started writing on cave walls (Shakespeare moved things along some), there's a basic pattern you can follow that sells. Every time. But the WWE has this bizarre habit over the past few years of starting to tell a story, then giving up and starting to tell another.
They were afraid they'd fuck up Ryback; they did. They were afraid they were going to fuck up Daniel Bryan, and somehow, they did.
So what I do now? When I read Madden and disagree with him, I just wait. In three months, it turns out he's usually right. There are very, very, very few people I'll give that credit to about anything in the world, but when it comes to professional wrestling, Mark Madden's one of them.
I thought for sure the WWE was giving Daniel Bryan the full-on Jesus Christ treatment. Put the odds against them, and have the crafty face find a way to thwart the powerful bad guy. It's like, the go-to professional wrestling story of the past twenty years, because it works, again and again and again.
Instead, the powerful bad guys make the good guy look like a bitch every week. He never gets even, he gets... neutral. You want to run a disputed title storyline? Madden was right- the ONLY thing Daniel Bryan should be saying for three months is "I'm the real champion. You're a fake champion." Randy Orton goes apeshit. They trade beatings.
Writing really isn't that hard. Once you figure out that we've been telling each other the same dozen stories with different characters since we started writing on cave walls (Shakespeare moved things along some), there's a basic pattern you can follow that sells. Every time. But the WWE has this bizarre habit over the past few years of starting to tell a story, then giving up and starting to tell another.
They were afraid they'd fuck up Ryback; they did. They were afraid they were going to fuck up Daniel Bryan, and somehow, they did.
So what I do now? When I read Madden and disagree with him, I just wait. In three months, it turns out he's usually right. There are very, very, very few people I'll give that credit to about anything in the world, but when it comes to professional wrestling, Mark Madden's one of them.
Pay Per Ghost
What they f*ck happened in the thread section here
http://www.wrestlezone.com/editorials/279649-pavlovian-nothing-more-bryans-run-is-over
Samo, what's a Pavlovian?
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
Ive seen plenty of people saying this, almost as a trendy thing.
Wrong. The crowd still flips a shit when his name is mentioned, or he does a run-in on Orton.
Wrong. The crowd still flips a shit when his name is mentioned, or he does a run-in on Orton.
The Dragon Saga
Whale in a Teardrop
A conditioned reflex, such as Bryan saying "Yes!" and fans automatically chanting it. Madden believes that is all Bryan is now, a chant fans will chant back at him.
As per-usual Madden's words seem true on a computer screen but in reality are wrong. Bryan is more over than everyone on the roster. And I mean everyone. I am including Cena if you don't catch the hint. And this whole "fake wrestling" bullshit Madden continually uses is annoying. It's what he wants though so he gets it in the end.
Pay Per Ghost
What they f*ck happened in the thread section here
Thank you and wrestling fans have always been pavlovian then. They still chant 'Si' after booing the shit out of ADR week in week out.
I get what he is saying here. Sure Bryan is still over like rover, but there are a few elements that have left us unsatisfied. Like his inaction. I mean when Hunter took the title, Bryan never handed it to him (contrary to what Madden's last article said). He was RKO'd and H just picked the strap and went.
Bryan should have trashed his office or done some flippy shit. Remember how he trashed Orton's car? Yes that kinda shit. I don't want him pulling out in a pink Rise Above Cancer Yes! Yes! Yes! laced monster truck. I don't want him driving a Zamoboni with a beard. But I do want him to do something over the top besides the knee or crossface.
George Steele's Barber
Advertise Here $9.95/month
Chanting "Yes!" live in an arena is a draw but it doesn't necessarily translate to watching Raw at home, buying a PPV, or buying merchandise. These things are still important.
Mr. Artistic guy
Better Off This Way
I felt a couple of months ago, when HHH started ordering that Big Show knock people out, this storyline was going to serve him more than it did Daniel Bryan. I reckon I was right.
Kodo Sawaki
Championship Contender
Madden is the guy that thinks Bryan is over just because "Yes" chant? Yeah, that guy doesnt have a clue...
I agree to certain degree. They should do better by now with storyline. But lets wait to see what they do with it because it isnt over.
I agree to certain degree. They should do better by now with storyline. But lets wait to see what they do with it because it isnt over.
He's a cunt. And pointing out the obvious. We can see WWE can't find their way out of a wet paper bag without Cena.
It seems Madden is just trying to justify his opinion of Daniel Bryan not being a huge star in the WWE. This story has rejuvenated the careers of Big Show and Goldust, is the rocket to the top for Cody Rhodes, and continues to establish The Shield as the dominant force in the WWE.
Daniel Bryan is living up to his end of the bargain, but is/was Orton the ideal opponent for him?
Daniel Bryan is living up to his end of the bargain, but is/was Orton the ideal opponent for him?
Big Nick Dudley
Nick
The real question should be is Daniel Bryan right for Orton?
With Cena being out, WWE needed a big, dramatic storyline. One guy vs. the machine is an old but trusted story. Daniel isn't the right. Not saying DB wasn't the hottest thing in wrestling, but who else could he have gone against?
They should've made a choice - DB or the corporation story. It hasn't been good. I don't think Orton's been anything special thus far, but in terms of story, he wasn't given a great enemy.
With Cena being out, WWE needed a big, dramatic storyline. One guy vs. the machine is an old but trusted story. Daniel isn't the right. Not saying DB wasn't the hottest thing in wrestling, but who else could he have gone against?
They should've made a choice - DB or the corporation story. It hasn't been good. I don't think Orton's been anything special thus far, but in terms of story, he wasn't given a great enemy.
There have been some pretty obvious mistakes made with Bryan in this story and his momentum has started to fade somewhat from where he was in mid-summer. The issue is that he (like everyone in WWE must) takes a backseat to HHH. Madden has a point. Unfortunately, he buries it under all his childish 'fake wrestling' 'marks' 'I told you so' posturing.
Aren't we talking about a guy who was in team hell no, doing comedy skits, losing his Mania match in 30 seconds? The guy is a pushover and he was never meant to be a main event wrestler like CM Punk, Orton and Cena. He is supposed to be a jobber.
There is no mistake or shady booking. He is has a comedy gimmick. You are not supposed to take him seriously.
There is no mistake or shady booking. He is has a comedy gimmick. You are not supposed to take him seriously.
And what's the excuse for the idiotic PPV endings?
And as we all know, there's no faster way to kill a character than a quick loss at WrestleMania.
http://www.wwe.com/videos/ultimate-warrior-vs-triple-h-wrestlemania-xii-26058490
Attitude era booking for the fans that want attitude era wrestling.
waaahhhhhh
You're looking at this from the wrong perspective. The objective here is, and always has been, to make Daniel Bryan look good. To make Daniel Bryan look good, you have to have Daniel Bryan involved. Orton is the expendable part of the equation.
As a "face of the WWE," I don't think Orton's a poor choice - in fact, he's at least the second best choice (ahem, Ryback) - but everyone pales in comparison to Cena as a representation of the status quo. It's always painful when they try to sell Cena as some anti-corporation monster that must be vanquished because he's annoying the suits... by making more money than they could ever possibly spend, presumably. This isn't a "turn Cena heel" post, but rather a "don't pretend Vince doesn't want Cena as champion" post. Because that's just dumb. Oddly enough, that's a mistake they didn't make during Punk's rise.
I think the problem here is the sheer repetition of the storyline. Even then, I don't think it's been an unadulterated disaster. No, it's not been great either. My biggest concern is Cena's early return, taking the limelight away from Bryan before he's found his groove.
Pay Per Ghost
What they f*ck happened in the thread section here
I think people are complaining that the groove is all but gone now. Its like going downhill from now because of some poor booking but, I still think Bryan can make this work.
If his storyline is him Vs The Corporation, well then let him get him comeuppance against the Corporation. You know who got that moment? Big Show. And Bryan danced over Hunter's corpse.
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