Is Cena really as bad as most fans make him out to be?

I find John Cena rather strange to me. From most forums and from my friends I constantly hear that John Cena is a very overrated wrestler. But on the other hand, when I watch some of his matches I can't help but not too be impressed. And then on some days, he lives up to his hype.

One example of this can be the Over The Limit PPV main event when he AA Batista through the stage floor, The main event match with CM Punk where Mason Ryan made his intro. Then however, some of his performances bore me and feel forced on. Like recently the Royal Rumble, and the Elimination Chamber.

So do you guy's believe that John Cena is not a guy who can perform at a high level weekly or is it just flashes of greatness, discuss.

The IWC has Cena completely underrated.

And you know what? It's old, it's tiring, it's just plain stupid now.

It's one thing to criticize a guy, but it's another to throw out the same old tired crap "Cena only knows 5 moves", "Cena can't wrestlle", "Cena sucks". And so on, and so on.

Cena is a great wrestler, he can talk, has a great look and he's a legend in WWE. He's had plenty of great mtaches and memorable moments.

He's been the face of the WWE for years and done a damn good job if I do say so myself.

His passion, his charity work, all shining examples.

When he retires he'll be top 10 easily.
 
Read the whole thread, people have nothing negative to say about him personally, if they do they are brainless and most of us have well and truly moved past the Cena's 5 moves of doom. That was then, this is now

He has improved in ring but he's still Stale, He's still can't or doesn't sell moves most of the time and the match layouts are exactly the same 95% of the time and the promo's are lame. Storytelling 101
That's the issue, not whether he can pull off moves, or isn't entertaining or isn't a great ambassador

He proved on Monday that mic wise he can cut it but as a PG character his promo's are just average, not shit, not great!!!!
He could take a leaf out of Hogan WrestleMania 5 promo aimed at the Macho Man.
(may not be exact i can't recall it totally)
"I don't care where you stand, i don't care what you believe in.
All i want from you is your best, I want the Macho Madness to be at it's peak.
Because when Hulkamania rules, when Hulkamania lives forever, When Hulkamania puts your down on your knees,
I want the whole world to know i beat you at your best. And at the end of WrestleMania 5 i will be the WWF Champion.

And whaat ya gonna do Maho Man, when the whole world full of Hulkamaniacs DESTROYS YOU!!!!"
pretty much sums it up, he wasn't totally squeeky clean but was still morally good which catered to everyone - 5 moves of doom, really bad acting, impervious to clean defeat and all

Cena character in a similar situation would be something along the lines "I respect you, you are a great champion but i am gonna try my hardest to beat you" LAME!!!! lol
 
I'm so tired of hearing the same old shit about change it up and lose cleanly. It's rather old and you sound like obnoxious pricks. First of all, you want the guy to lose cleanly, but in all reality, HE'S A FUCKING FACE, THE FACE OF THE COMPANY!!!! He's not supposed to lose cleanly. That's why he doesn't lose as many matches as iwc *******s want him to lose. Heels don't win cleanly.... That's what makes them heel. I've been watching wrestling long enough (probably longer than a lot of you have been alive and before it was the "cool" thing to do) to know this. Flair, as a Heel Champion, RARELY won cleanly. That's just the way wrestling works. Aside from one period in wrestling (the Attitude Era, which is NOT coming back, btw) this has been the formula for booking in order to appeal to the younger audience. You don't like it, don't watch... There are plenty of younger generation fans getting Mommy and Daddy to fork over that cash to keep the company going, as well as old school fans who know that it's entertainment and enjoy it as such...
 
The IWC has Cena completely underrated.

And you know what? It's old, it's tiring, it's just plain stupid now.

It's one thing to criticize a guy, but it's another to throw out the same old tired crap "Cena only knows 5 moves", "Cena can't wrestlle", "Cena sucks". And so on, and so on.

Cena is a great wrestler, he can talk, has a great look and he's a legend in WWE. He's had plenty of great mtaches and memorable moments.

He's been the face of the WWE for years and done a damn good job if I do say so myself.

His passion, his charity work, all shining examples.

When he retires he'll be top 10 easily.


:lol::lmao::lmao::lmao::lol: When he retires he will be top 10 easily :confused::wtf: Top 10 WHAT? Most over guys in the wwe cause that's the only top 10 he will be in. It for damn sure want be top 10 greatest of all time if he keeps performing like the way he has been. Just cause he is over doesn't mean he has been good the whole time he has been over.

Sure he has been the face of the company for years now I'll give him a 7/10 for entertainment over these years. Great wrestler? NO!! Okay wrestler? Yes!! Mic Work? Only good when he is able to let loose a little bit just like he did this past Monday elsewise he is 5/10 to 6/10 most days. His passion, & his charity work has nothing to do w/the fact that the man acts like he can't entertain his way out of a paper bag most nights in his matches & on the mic. Just cause he is geared to the young fans doesn't mean he has to bore the hell out of the adult fans.
 
I'm so tired of hearing the same old shit about change it up and lose cleanly. It's rather old and you sound like obnoxious pricks. First of all, you want the guy to lose cleanly, but in all reality, HE'S A FUCKING FACE, THE FACE OF THE COMPANY!!!! He's not supposed to lose cleanly. That's why he doesn't lose as many matches as iwc *******s want him to lose. Heels don't win cleanly.... That's what makes them heel. I've been watching wrestling long enough (probably longer than a lot of you have been alive and before it was the "cool" thing to do) to know this. Flair, as a Heel Champion, RARELY won cleanly. That's just the way wrestling works. Aside from one period in wrestling (the Attitude Era, which is NOT coming back, btw) this has been the formula for booking in order to appeal to the younger audience. You don't like it, don't watch... There are plenty of younger generation fans getting Mommy and Daddy to fork over that cash to keep the company going, as well as old school fans who know that it's entertainment and enjoy it as such...

Alright, let's check out this vid:

[YOUTUBE]KsDh3DR-Uy8[/YOUTUBE]


Rock the WWf champion, THE FACE OF THE COMPANY, just got his ass handed to him by the american badass(not the original undertaker) in just 5 min, and he did it cleanly. Hell taker wasn't even in the top 3 at that time(Rock, HHH, Angle).

I also remember when lesnar(rookie) beat rock THE FACE OF THE COMPANY cleanly to capture the wwe undisputed title.

One last thing didn't austin THE FACE OF THE COMPANY at that time(2001) last the war against HHH in NWO 2001? Yes he did. HHH did it cleanly(since there was no DQ), and by himself. But that's not the case with cena, I believe...
 
I think it's important to point out that the "most fans" that hate on John Cena are internet smarks that just outright hate the man and very much exaggerate any shortcomings that he has to an almost obscene degree. John Cena isn't a mat technician or submission specialist and he's never tried to be. The "faults" that John Cena has are "faults" that every single wrestler working today or 50 years ago has. For instance, Cena's so called "5 Moves of Doom" are signature moves that he uses in just about every match. Every wrestler has signature moves from Lou Thesz to Harley Race to Ric Flair to Shawn Michaels to Kurt Angle and so on and so forth. It's a tired argument that basically just screams of desperation to explain why they don't like the guy.

That's not to say that there's no reason to dislike Cena. If you find him boring in the ring or to listen to or if you just don't care about the guy, that's all well and good and that's perfectly reasonable. But that's generally not what you hear when it comes to people complaining about Cena. Many internet smarks have a specific set idea as to what they believe a great professional wrestlers should be. Anybody that doesn't fit all of their criteria is labeled a bad wrestler. The single most important job Cena or any wrestler can do is to make fans care and be interested in whatever he's involved in. I'm not a huge fan of Cena, guy gets on my nerves sometimes quite frankly, but the man most definitely makes fans interested in his storylines, feuds and matches. It doesn't matter how athletic a wrestler might be, it doesn't matter how high he can jump, doesn't matter how toned his body is, doesn't matter how accomplished of a mat technician he might be if the fans don't give a shit about him. John Cena does not have that problem.
 
If we are strictly talking about John Cena, the in-ring performer, there is something you need to consider:

John Cena is in what I refer to as the "Hulk Hogan position". This is not some lewd reference to Hulk Hogan being on all fours in any sense, but a reference to the fact that Vince McMahon has placed John Cena as his most valuable asset, the asset that makes him the most money.

Now consider Hulk Hogan: he was a very sound and capable worker (if you don't believe me, take a look at the matches he was having outside of the WWE, particularly in Japan). But since Vince McMahon had invested so heavily into Hulkamania and making Hogan his top draw, either Vince or Hogan made the conscious decision that he should take a less-is-more approach to his ring work in the hopes of minimzing downtime due to injury and maximizing profit through his appearances and matches.

Another good example of this is, believe it or not, Randy Orton. When Orton first started getting hot with Evolution, he was having the match of the night with everyone he was placed in the ring with. He was taking sick, sick bumps, landing on his head and dangling all over the ropes in awkward positions. But as he progressed in his career, became injured more frequently and Vince invested more and more in him, again, Randy started taking a less-is-more approach. Now, a Viper match consists of punches, the occasional dropkick, his rope hung DDT (a great spot for the crowd to go nuts) and then his finishing sequence consisting of clotheslines, snap-powerslam, modified backbreaker and of course the RKO.

Sounds familiar, right? 5 moves of Randall doom.

So it is my opionion that John Cena isn't showing us absolutely everything he is capable of in the ring. But what he IS showing us is that he is capable of holding his own with absolutely anybody and, dare I say it, having great matches when with a great worker to hold up their end when his shortcomings are evident.

Do I enjoy his "Superman" character? Not always. It doesn't make sense from a psychology stand point, but then again, neither did Hogan's "Hulking up". What WWE is attempting to do here, I think, is re-establish the possibility of some sort of in-ring super hero for the kids to believe in and scream incoherently when he doesn't in fact back down. With screaming kids comes families, and a family of 4 - 5 means the chance of more money as opposed to one disgruntled wrestling fan purchasing one ticket.

So, in short, no, I don't think John Cena is really all that bad. We aren't even discussing his greatest strengths as a WWE Superstar which are his ability to project honesty and generosity in his promos and having a superhuman work ethic which is channelled specifically into the business that he and all of us love. So, yeah, he is great for the WWE in my humble opinion.
 
I usually don't chime in on Cena threads, mostly because they usually get crazy, but I'm gonna do so today. I think, just like the man in question has stated many times, if you choose to hate John Cena for whatever reason, that is your right. I personally have no problem with him. He's a good worker who has worked hard to get where he's at and despite the fact he's at the top, he CONTINUES to work his tail off. I get that he's constantly in the main event scene, but I feel that complaint if rife with double standards, as many of the other big stars aren't any less in the main event. Cena, for whatever reason is just a polarizing figure in this respect.
As for him being able to overcome odds and his comeback abilities a.k.a. being "Superman", if you watch WWE programming, every other face does this same song and dance. It is more identified in Cena because so many people have soured on him for other reasons which in reality are not Cena's fault in the least(long title reigns, pushed down our throats, etc.). The comeback is babyface 101. It happens to some degree in every match. Sure, alot of the time the face doesn't win, but they do a large part of the time. Cena being the #1 guy in the company just does it more because let's face it, you can't have your main guy look weak.
Also, if you look at wrestling for what it is, in a lot of ways it is like a live action movie. Part of watching a movie like that is having a willing suspension of disbelief. If you don't have that, an action movie most times would be lame. Every action movie always has those times that the hero overcomes some impossible scenario or escapes something that in the real world is certain death. I think you ahve to have a little of that to really enjoy wrestling. Cena doing what he does is a perfect example of this. Of course in the real world Cena would be done in minutes with the beatings he takes, however no more less than his opponent would be after taking the beatings Cena usually opens his matches with.
If you look at a lot of arguements against him, there are double standards in them. Not saying that's true of everyone who hates Cena, cause I'm sure some genuinely dislike him for their own reasons. I just think alot who jump on the hate bandwagon don't really consider why they really hate him.
 
Really?! Let's see:


Stone Cold: (Not ring master, not stunnig steve austin, only stone cold)

Moveset:2000-2001
-Stunner
-Cobra Clutch
-Mudhole Stomps
-Back Drop
-Catapult
-Stomp To The Groin
-Elbow Drop From The 2nd Rope
-Lou Thez Press(followed by an elbow drop)
-Superplex
-Boston Crab
-Spinbuster
-Suplex

-Austin is way better than cena as far as technical wrestling.
-Austin was a brawler, that's his style(because of his character), but he showed that he can be a very good technical wrestler. vs hbk KOTR1997, vs benoit SD2001(in benoit's hometown), vs angle Raw(Thier 1st match), vs bret(Actully all of their matches), all of these matches prove what I mean.
-Austin's neck(&knees) injuries limited his move-set as the time goes by.
-He's one of the best ever when it comes to ring generalship and psychology.






The Rock: (Not Rocky Maivia)

Moveset:2000-2001
-The People's Elbow
-The Rock Bottom
-Rock's Sharpshooter(A different version than bret's or sting's...)
-Dragon Screw
-Spinebuster
-Floatover DDT
-Swiniging Neckbreaker
-Running Thrust Lariate
-Samoan Drop
-Rock's Punch Combination
-Snap Overhead Belly To Belly Suplex
-Powerslam
-Side Belly To Belly Suplex
-Oklahoma Slam
-Opponent's Finsher move(You can count that out)
-Russian Legsweep

-Rock's Style is more of a Fast-Paced style.
-He's not the best technical wrestler in the world(better than cena though), but the combination of his great athletic abillity and that umatched showmanship is more than enough to put on great matches.
-Just like austin, rock is one of the best in terms of ring psychology, whether he's a heel or face.










Beside, cena's matches are too predictable and boring. First he get his ass kicked, later on he come back, do the shoulderblock 5 times which really pisses me off, counter a punch with twisting belly to belly suplex, five knuckle shuffle, attempt to deliever the AA, if he hit it then it's over if it got countered he'll counter back with the stf, end of the match. If the match was a tag match or triple threat match, Oh god, he'll double all the moves I mentioned on all of his opponent, you see that not wrestling, that's BS. That's why alot of people agree that cena can't wrestle. So please, stop comparing cena to rock and austin, he's simply not in thier league. And pls, stop talking about something you know nothing about.


You ever listen to Cena's colleagues in the biz(people who DO know what they're talking about) talk about Cena? Universal praise, from the Rock to Ric Flair. AS A WORKER. Speaks for itself.
 
You ever listen to Cena's colleagues in the biz(people who DO know what they're talking about) talk about Cena? Universal praise, from the Rock to Ric Flair. AS A WORKER. Speaks for itself.

Did I mention anything about him being a bad worker? There is no deny that cena is the hardest worker in the"biz", but that doesn't change the fact that he's a bad "In-Ring Performer". And as far as being praised by everybody, well since he's the face of the company I don't expect from any memeber of the wwe to say a bad thing about him. And when did the rock praise cena?


Oh and believe me I DO know what I'm talking about, but I'm not sure about you, mixing movies with wrestling matches?! :rolleyes:
 
Did I mention anything about him being a bad worker? There is no deny that cena is the hardest worker in the"biz", but that doesn't change the fact that he's a bad "In-Ring Performer". And as far as being praised by everybody, well since he's the face of the company I don't expect from any memeber of the wwe to say a bad thing about him.

Just making my point for me. You talked about folks not knowing what they were talking about. The term worker in "the biz" is most often used to describe a performer's in ring ability. I'm not trying to start a flame war, so don't take it personally. Most of us here really have no knowledge of the "inner workings" of the business and if you do, then by all means talk down to us who don't. If not, you have no right to say you know what you're talking about either. You're entitled to your opinion,but it is just that. I just think that him being a weak in ring performer is just not a valid reason. He can go when it's required of him, which should be every match. I'd think it was only smart to save your best stuff and spread it out, lest that starts to bore people. And as far as these guys not bashing Cena cause he's the face of the company, that may be the case. But it also may not be and until they give me reason to think they were just towing the company line, I've no reason to question their thoughts on Cena.
 
Just making my point for me. You talked about folks not knowing what they were talking about. The term worker in "the biz" is most often used to describe a performer's in ring ability. I'm not trying to start a flame war, so don't take it personally. Most of us here really have no knowledge of the "inner workings" of the business and if you do, then by all means talk down to us who don't. If not, you have no right to say you know what you're talking about either. You're entitled to your opinion,but it is just that. I just think that him being a weak in ring performer is just not a valid reason. He can go when it's required of him, which should be every match. I'd think it was only smart to save your best stuff and spread it out, lest that starts to bore people. And as far as these guys not bashing Cena cause he's the face of the company, that may be the case. But it also may not be and until they give me reason to think they were just towing the company line, I've no reason to question their thoughts on Cena.

Well explain to me how would you respond to a young fan, who started to follow wrestling 2yrs ago and say "Hey, Rock, austin, and hogan are bad in-ring performers"? That's just ain't right. Hogan used to be a very good technical wrestler when he was in japan. Same thing with austin, the matches he had with hbk and bret are classics. And yes even after the neck surgery, he came back and had some great macthes, yes he wasn't the same but still better than cena in the ring. As far as the rock goes, yes he wasn't great technically, but the combo of of his athletic ability, showmanship, and psychology were more than enough to put on some great matches. Andfor those who said that austin did nothing but punching, stomping, and stunning just watch austin pre WM 17 when he came back. Even though he was limited he had more moves than cena.

I believe the word Worker describes superstar's overall performance, but when you hear "he's a great performer!" that means he's a great in-ring performer.


Alright let's hear the opinion of one of the greatest in ring performers of all-time and a former wwe superstar on cena's cena's wrestling skills:
[YOUTUBE]mFq6KDaAt7w[/YOUTUBE]
 
Lets get some things straight. Cena is no Kurt Angle or Undertaker or Willaim Regal by ANY means. Nut I don't find himexactly overrated, more so we could use a little less of him. Cena is without a shadow of a doubt one of if not THE most loyal, hard working guys in the E. For that alone, I think he deserves to be the hero to kids and deserves to be in the E. Also, I find it highly disrespectful when losers chant "You can't Wrestle" when they are fat, lazy, and couldn't throw a proper DDT or dropkick and would bitch and moan about how hard the mat is.
 
To quote Vince McMahon, "Its all about the monaaay!"

John Cena brings the WWE money. And money makes Vince McMahon happy. Can you imagine how many kids buy his T-Shirts, hats, etc.

I was a big fan of Cena when he was fueding with Edge 5 years ago. I remember having a John Cena t-shirt and a John Cena hat, and I wore it everywhere I went. I was about
1O years old.

John Cena is not bad, he has entertaining mic-skills and good wrestling skills. He just has this "Super Cena" gimmick that bothers some people. And it does bother me, too. But I still find it entertaining to watch Cena in action. And how about 2 weeks ago when punk beat him? Maybe CM had like kryptonite in his hands or something but he did it!

So to answer the question, I dont think Cena is as bad as the fans take him to be.
 
Well explain to me how would you respond to a young fan, who started to follow wrestling 2yrs ago and say "Hey, Rock, austin, and hogan are bad in-ring performers"? That's just ain't right. Hogan used to be a very good technical wrestler when he was in japan. Same thing with austin, the matches he had with hbk and bret are classics. And yes even after the neck surgery, he came back and had some great macthes, yes he wasn't the same but still better than cena in the ring. As far as the rock goes, yes he wasn't great technically, but the combo of of his athletic ability, showmanship, and psychology were more than enough to put on some great matches. Andfor those who said that austin did nothing but punching, stomping, and stunning just watch austin pre WM 17 when he came back. Even though he was limited he had more moves than cena.

I believe the word Worker describes superstar's overall performance, but when you hear "he's a great performer!" that means he's a great in-ring performer.


Alright let's hear the opinion of one of the greatest in ring performers of all-time and a former wwe superstar on cena's cena's wrestling skills:
[YOUTUBE]mFq6KDaAt7w[/YOUTUBE]

I agree with most of what you're saying. I've never taken issue with anybody's in ring performance you listed above. I just think Cena is better than most people think he is. The bottom line is you can be the best most charasmatic guy who gives it your all but if you can't work, you are doomed. Cena can wrestle and can do so well. I'm not saying the guy is on like Shawn Michaels or Ricky Steamboats level, he's just not as bad as people say he is. Granted on a lot of occasions he doesn't get to show it because of how he's booked, but to base the hatred of him on the fact that he isn't a great worker is flawed in my opinion. As far as that Kurt Angle vid, while i love Kurt to death, THAT was a perfect example of a guy towing the company line. TNA almost on WWE's level? One point behind them in the ratings? In his dreams. If Vince would give Kurt a reduced shedule and good money, bet your bottom dollar he would be on a Cena video right now talking about how great he is. That is TNA's m.o.: Make it seem like the WWE isn't what we all know it is, the best and biggest company out there that is handing TNA it's rear on a regular basis.
 
No, he is not.

I can not, for the life of me, see how somebody can complain about Cena on one end and praise Hogan on the other. It boggles my mind.

I've seen Hogan "even in Japan" (as people like to say) and I was still not impressed in the least. Hogan was big and had charisma. Period. That's it. No in ring prowess, no agility, nothing but arms, height, a loud voice, a good gimmick w/nice catchphrases, and smiles and wild eyes. Oh. And a moustache.

Cena is a much better performer and all around package. He's ripped and beastly, yet he can perform aerial moves and work like nobody's business. He sells a hell of a lot better, and takes punishment much more believably than the "Ah, ah, ah" and head bobbing Hogan did.

But we're not here to compare, I just had to get that off my chest. Cena is, undoubtedly, one of the rare, true greats to come along in a very long time. If you haven't, check out dvd 1 of his My Life set. I've had it about a year and didn't watch it until the other day. You just see the determination this kid had in him and will to succeed. (Funny side note. In the video you hear them talking about the 5 knuckle shuffle, how it came about, and how it was just added for spectacle. They then mention others that had things like that and immediately showed a clip of the People's elbow. lol Cena haters and Rock lovers, take note. The People's elbow was just as ridiculous, if not more than, the 5 knuckle shuffle. And if you're still not convinced, I'll bet a lot of you even marked out for the Worm...)

And he did it with a smile on his face and a positive attitude. Maybe that's it, maybe he's TOO decent of a person. That kind of thing invokes rabid jealousy. He hasn't had people coming out to air any "personal demons" besides the fact that he worked out too hard sometimes. The worst thing mentioned about him is that he's a hard worker? Oh, shit. Good thing WWE is footing those rehab bills for everyone now...

He genuinely loves the business AND the fans. He is genuine in his interaction, you can see it in vids and clips. You can see it in his eyes, tell it in his expressions. Not a lot of people shine through while being in character. (Hogan and Michaels were two off the top of my head. Their backstage attitude was told to be a lot different than how they came across onscreen.)

For somebody to love what he does for so long and still have that same amount of energy and dedication as when he first started is a testament. (See also: Kurt Angle) How many have gotten to the top and "took it easy" from there? How many have shown that it's went to their heads? You don't see that in Cena. I'm sure that he's grown and adjusted to his success, but you don't hear of him throwing fits, playing backstage politics like it's a game of Stratego, turning into a money/glory hound, or getting wrapped up in drugs/alcohol. Just sayin'.

I think that maybe he's too good for his own good. In society today, from a psychological standpoint, I honestly think that maybe he's seen as "not controversial enough". People seem to like to bitch and/or feed on drama these days. They want a reason to rip somebody so they can feel superior, or make fun of, or to vent and write about. From celebrities to politics to personal, everyday life, it seems like people enjoy tearing things apart these days. Maybe it's because he doesn't give them enough fodder to occupy their time so they have to criticize and find something, anything.

I personally don't like rap. I don't like drama. I have liked gimmicks that are nothing but comedy, non-serious things (Shark Boy, Eric Young, Santino). I've liked guys that don't work super great but have had decent charisma (Sandman and New Jack for instance). I've liked guys that were great in the ring but just lacked something to catch on in the mainstream (Ultimo Dragon, Lance Storm, Jerry Lynn, Vampiro). I've even liked guys that could have been something but wasn't for whatever reason (Saturn, Shane Douglas). So I don't just like "mainstream" guys. But Cena, to me, is a class act all around, can work his ass off in the ring, keeps his energy and positive attitude, and brings something to the table that doesn't come around all that often.

And I think that "something" is that he's real. Real, but not easy fodder for gossip or capitalizing on somebody else's drama.

Edit: Just saw the vid above me. Kurt's right about one thing. TNA does have more solid wrestlers on their roster. The problem is with the booking and utilizing of said talent. They could be exploding right now, given the right format, the right angles, the proper amount of exposure to certain people. I know you can't have everything, but it needs to change drastically.

Keep the legends in the back and use them in extremely limited fashion on screen (or get rid of 99% of them altogether). Start building young talent now while they have these veterans to help teach them. Put them in simpler storylines, with maybe one or two "more complex" storylines for the dramatic, entertainment aspect. You could easily have 2 shows with their roster and talent. But you still have to produce quality programming.

WWE still does that for the most part. It may seem a little "vanilla" but it flows, and it's not overly convoluted. And stories are given time to develop, build, and climax. It's like reading a book. You have to give it time to build up before the climax, declining action, and/or resolution. TNA can't achieve that if they have a "spot monkey booker" at the reigns.
 
I agree with most of what you're saying. I've never taken issue with anybody's in ring performance you listed above. I just think Cena is better than most people think he is. The bottom line is you can be the best most charasmatic guy who gives it your all but if you can't work, you are doomed. Cena can wrestle and can do so well. I'm not saying the guy is on like Shawn Michaels or Ricky Steamboats level, he's just not as bad as people say he is. Granted on a lot of occasions he doesn't get to show it because of how he's booked, but to base the hatred of him on the fact that he isn't a great worker is flawed in my opinion. As far as that Kurt Angle vid, while i love Kurt to death, THAT was a perfect example of a guy towing the company line. TNA almost on WWE's level? One point behind them in the ratings? In his dreams. If Vince would give Kurt a reduced shedule and good money, bet your bottom dollar he would be on a Cena video right now talking about how great he is. That is TNA's m.o.: Make it seem like the WWE isn't what we all know it is, the best and biggest company out there that is handing TNA it's rear on a regular basis.

I know kurt said some BS statement here, but he was right about batista, henry, and cena. Plus kurt praising TNA the way he did in this vid proves the point I made earlier. Don't expect from wwe(or TNA) members to bash each other or say a bad thing about the company. And for the record, it wasn't about tna vs wwe, if that was the case, he wouldn't be giving props to hbk, austin, taker, rock, and hhh. Kurt just told the truth.
 
RJJ, seems you overlooked one major point in my post when you decided to give your rebuttal.... Every example you gave came along during the Attitude Era, when good became evil and evil became good and it was cool to curse and have all kinds of Tits and Ass in wrestling. Look at a guy like Kurt Angle, who came out during that Era... The man had just won an Olympic Gold Medal for the US with a broken neck. There is no reason he wouldn't have been a MAJOR face in any other time period, yet Vince made him a Heel. Didn't mean to get off topic, but I'm simply saying that you can't compare anything that occured during the Attitude Era with any other period in Wrestling.
 
RJJ, seems you overlooked one major point in my post when you decided to give your rebuttal.... Every example you gave came along during the Attitude Era, when good became evil and evil became good and it was cool to curse and have all kinds of Tits and Ass in wrestling. Look at a guy like Kurt Angle, who came out during that Era... The man had just won an Olympic Gold Medal for the US with a broken neck. There is no reason he wouldn't have been a MAJOR face in any other time period, yet Vince made him a Heel. Didn't mean to get off topic, but I'm simply saying that you can't compare anything that occured during the Attitude Era with any other period in Wrestling.

That was not the reason why the attitude era was so popular and successful. You see, what I really liked about the that era, is "Anything possible". It was so unpredictable. You can not miss not one show, cause you know damn sure it's gonna be one hell of a show, whether it's raw, smackdown, PPV, hell even on heat, you'd see austin or rock cutting a promo, or doing an interview.
 
He's not as bad as the Cena haters make him out to be but still, he's not that good. The main reason I can't stand him isn't his in ring skills but when he hijacks the show with a 10 minute promo, sure The Rock and Stone Cold cut long promos but I don't remember hearing their entrance music and thinking "oh god not again" like I do when I see Cena coming to the ring with a microphone. Ever since they made him the main face I always said this douche thinks he's the Rock, now he's almost like a superhero like Hogan and has a fanbase of 10 year olds like Hulkamania, Hustle, Loyalty, Respect...sounds kinda like say your prayers take your vitamins and do your homework to me.
 
That was not the reason why the attitude era was so popular and successful. You see, what I really liked about the that era, is "Anything possible". It was so unpredictable. You can not miss not one show, cause you know damn sure it's gonna be one hell of a show, whether it's raw, smackdown, PPV, hell even on heat, you'd see austin or rock cutting a promo, or doing an interview.

In which case, why continue to say you hate Cena when in all actuallity, you hate the current state of the WWE because it's not the WWF Attitude Era? Cena, more importantly "SuperCena" has been the man in WWE since the transition. At the same time, he is doing his job which is exactly what the man who signs his paychecks wants him to do.... If you hate "SuperCena", then just say that you hate Vince. Hell, just say that you hate WWE because like it or not, John Cena is WWE.

And for the record, I am not a John Cena fan. I am a wrestling fan. Have been a wrestling fan for almost 30 years. I watch it for the entertainment that it brings and stories being told in this "male soap opera".
 
I know kurt said some BS statement here, but he was right about batista, henry, and cena. Plus kurt praising TNA the way he did in this vid proves the point I made earlier. Don't expect from wwe(or TNA) members to bash each other or say a bad thing about the company. And for the record, it wasn't about tna vs wwe, if that was the case, he wouldn't be giving props to hbk, austin, taker, rock, and hhh. Kurt just told the truth.

See this is where it gets kind of hazy. For the style wrestlers they are and the way they are booked, those three guys get the job done. No one here is ever gonna accuse Mark Henry of being a great technical wrestler. Batista either for that matter. Which is fine, because that is not their style which is more a power base. Both of those guys imo are good at what they do. Just like Cena. I don't think anyone here by any stretch of their imagination thinks Cena is the best out there today. All I'm saying is he isn't as bad as he's thought to be. He can chain and mat wrestle if the match is booked that way. He's not someone who's gonna pull a great match out of every opponent, but he can put on a great match. And I didn't mean to sound TNA vs. WWE. Just pointing out that TNA's guys always try to talk up their product at the expense of downing WWE. Of course Kurt can't not give props to WWE's legends. But making their top guy sound so weak is mission accomplished. Like I said, maybe they would be blowing smoke up Cena and the WWE's butts, but most of those guys would speak from what they believe. Just look at Triple H. He recently took a pretty big shot at the Miz on AOTS. And nobody in WWE is needing to be put over more right now than the Miz. Especially if they want to make him a major face of the company.
 
In which case, why continue to say you hate Cena when in all actuallity, you hate the current state of the WWE because it's not the WWF Attitude Era? Cena, more importantly "SuperCena" has been the man in WWE since the transition. At the same time, he is doing his job which is exactly what the man who signs his paychecks wants him to do.... If you hate "SuperCena", then just say that you hate Vince. Hell, just say that you hate WWE because like it or not, John Cena is WWE.

And for the record, I am not a John Cena fan. I am a wrestling fan. Have been a wrestling fan for almost 30 years. I watch it for the entertainment that it brings and stories being told in this "male soap opera".

Man! For the 2nd time!....I never said that I hate cena, hell why would I hate a guy that I don't know? LMAO When I say he's not good in the ring or his character suck it doesn't mean that I hate him, but when you have a guy comparing cena to hogan that really get you mad, cause without hogan the wwe would've never reached that level of fame and success. And after that, you have another guy saying "hey cena is a better wrestler than austin"......:lmao:.....Without austin wwe=history
And then someone jump in and say "When It's all said and done cena will be in the top 10 list of all time" :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:......That's why I said some people really don't have any idea what they're talking about.
 
Ok, so maybe YOU don't HATE Cena, and I apologize for throwing you into that category. But many of your arguments have been very anti-Cena. But the formula being used with Cena is no worse than with any other face of the company (Attitude Era excluded). I just don't feel that the guy deserves all of the shit he takes for doing his job and entertaining unappreciative assholes who think its cool to give him a hard time.
 
See this is where it gets kind of hazy. For the style wrestlers they are and the way they are booked, those three guys get the job done. No one here is ever gonna accuse Mark Henry of being a great technical wrestler. Batista either for that matter. Which is fine, because that is not their style which is more a power base. Both of those guys imo are good at what they do. Just like Cena. I don't think anyone here by any stretch of their imagination thinks Cena is the best out there today. All I'm saying is he isn't as bad as he's thought to be. He can chain and mat wrestle if the match is booked that way. He's not someone who's gonna pull a great match out of every opponent, but he can put on a great match. And I didn't mean to sound TNA vs. WWE. Just pointing out that TNA's guys always try to talk up their product at the expense of downing WWE. Of course Kurt can't not give props to WWE's legends. But making their top guy sound so weak is mission accomplished. Like I said, maybe they would be blowing smoke up Cena and the WWE's butts, but most of those guys would speak from what they believe. Just look at Triple H. He recently took a pretty big shot at the Miz on AOTS. And nobody in WWE is needing to be put over more right now than the Miz. Especially if they want to make him a major face of the company.

I don't expect from cena to be a great wrestler, or to be kurt angle or anything, but he can work on that(In-Ring abilities), or atleast do more than 5 moves, or for the very least stop doing shoulder block 8 times per match because he really look stupid doin it. The point is he must focus on his weaknesses, since he's the face of the company, he must be nearly perfect to lead by example.

Rock was really sucks in the ring from '97 to early '00, once he became the face of the company, he stepped up his game, and start focusing on that weakness. And he really showed alot of improvement. In 2002, you can't help but notice that rock really improved comparing to the period the mentioned above.
 

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