Is Bryan Danielson the Most Famous or Anticipated Indy Wrestler EVAH?

[Thriller Ant]

On Raw, we saw our first glimpse of Bryan Danielson, aka Daniel Bryan, on WWE TV as a contracted performer. The excitement of just this brief few seconds of him looking at a monitor may have been the most exciting part of the show for me and a few others, I'm sure.

Looking back at my reaction, it is hard to think that a guy who has never really proven himself on the biggest stage in the U.S. can have an effect like that. Indy wrestling is almost definitely at an all-time high in exposure due to the internet and DVD sales, and Danielson is a perfect example of this. Through his work in ROH and other companies, he became very well know worldwide to the point where even the WWE has to acknowledge, however anonymously, the success he has had in his career previously.


So with all this excitement and buzz going around, I have two questions for you:

1. Is Bryan Danielson the most famous Indy Wrestler of all-time?

and

2. Is his debut in a major company the most anticipated of all-time?

 

[The Doctor]

Yes and yes. Bryan Danielson is a household name amongst educated fans. Even people who only watch WWE know his name. If you go to the WWE Universe site you will see marks and smarks alike buzzing about his imminent arrival. Half these people have no idea who Austin Aries or Tyler Black are but they know Bryan Danielson.

Seeing an internet favorite and arguably the Best Wrestler in the World debut on a major stage is huge. ROH is the third company and seeing their top star who is already famous debut for the top company is going to be a special moment.

 

[Notorious718]

I sadly have never seen Danielson's ROH work so when he makes does his thing on NXT, it's gonna be the first time I've seen his work. But judging by what I've read on here, I wouldn't be surprised if he is the most famous indy wrestler. As far as being the most anticipated, I think it's safe to say that he is. I can’t get over how much the WWE keeps plugging Danielson. He hasn't even made his debut yet and they've been plugging him constantly on PPV and free TV. They even actually showed him in the back watching a match. They even went so far as to address the fact that there is controversy over The Miz being his mentor. I'm excited to see where this will lead to.

 

[D-Man]

It's a well-known fact that Danielson is a famous indy worker. However, I never heard of him until about a year ago. Prior to getting knowledge about him, the only "king of the indies" that I ever heard of was CM Punk. Now, I fully admit that I'm not well-versed in the independent circuit, but being a mainstream wrestling watcher, if Bryan Danielson was the king of the indies, wouldn't I have heard of him before CM Punk?

For this reason, I cannot put Danielson in my personal category for the most famous indy wrestler of all time, nor would be be in my bracket for the most anticipated debut in a major company. Those titles would go to CM Punk.

 

[RVDgurl]

It's a well-known fact that Danielson is a famous indy worker. However, I never heard of him until about a year ago. Prior to getting knowledge about him, the only "king of the indies" that I ever heard of was CM Punk. Now, I fully admit that I'm not well-versed in the independent circuit, but being a mainstream wrestling watcher, if Bryan Danielson was the king of the indies, wouldn't I have heard of him before CM Punk?

For this reason, I cannot put Danielson in my personal category for the most famous indy wrestler of all time, nor would be be in my bracket for the most anticipated debut in a major company. Those titles would go to CM Punk.

My first reaction is to say yes to both questions simply because I absolutely love Bryan Danielson. However, when I took a moment to think about the question, CM Punk was the name that came to my mind, as well.

I'm not sure that I can say that one had more indy fame than the other. I know that CM Punk came first - He had the indy fame and loads of anticipation surrounding his WWE debut. In fact, The WWE put alot more hype into Punk's debut as they included weeks of promos before his first match.

I also know that the minute CM Punk left ROH, Bryan Danielson stepped in and filled his shoes with ease. Since Punk's departure, Danielson has been the king of the indies for the past 4 years. Now Bryan Danielson is being pushed by the WWE as the face of NXT. He's the guy who was chosen to actually appear on RAW, even if it was just a few seconds.

Personally, I'm a huge fan of them both. Objectively, I think they are parallel in regard to the question posed. They both had more indy fame than any other wrestler and their WWE debuts were/are both highly anticipated.

 

[Shocky]

It depends on what you consider to be an Independent Wrestler. Now I'm guessing this is probably going to only be in the time frame of when all of the territories came to become the Big Two companies over the last 25 years. The WWF/E as one, and the NWA/WCW/TNA amalgam that has existed along that time.

When you look at big Indy Stars, Danielson isn't near the top of the list of guys the way I see it. When you talk about the most coveted free agents, you have to look at the Original ECW. Guys like Raven, Taz, the Dudleys, hell, even Sandman, Douglas or what not, all had decent IWC reputations when they were picked up by WCW or ECW. They were established guys in a pretty well known 3rd territory, and I think all of htose guys were more well known going into their new company then Danielson.

If you want to talk about the most coveted of the ECW free agents, then it's certainly Rob Van Dam. The pop this guy received on Raw when he showed up with Tommy Dreamer was insane. The only other time RVD was seen on WCW or WWF Tv was a short little cameo 4 years earlier in 1997. The crowd pop for a guy like RVD with relatively no exposure to the main stream was big, and I still say RVD is to date the biggest of the modern Indy Stars.

However, all due respect to CM Punk. The guy will be a bigger star then RVD when it's all said and done, and Hell, I'll listen to the argument that he is now. He's already won more world title's then RVD, and Vince McMahon apparantely loves him, something I don't think RVD had the luxury of.

If you count Samoa Joe and AJ Styles, I would rank them ahead of Danielson right nwo as well.

 

[TheThirdHebner]

Are we counting the original ECW? If so, I don't think so. RVD was the IWC darling (and still is, to a large extent), and was hugely anticipated when he came in. Maybe it was a personal bias, but I remember being most excited for RVD coming to a big show.

 

[RVDgurl]

Throwing ECW into the mix here certainly changes things- I wasn't counting the original ECW. Since Shocky brought it up, I would agree that many of the bigger ECW stars that made the transition to either WCW or the WWE, such as RVD, Taz, Raven and the Dudley's may have been a little more "famous" than either Danielson or CM Punk. However, I still don't remember the anticipation for their debuts being on par with that of Punk or Danielson. In fact the only ECW guy that I can clearly remember any hype proir to their debut was that of Taz coming to the WWE.

 

[jmt225]

You know, I think I would have to go with Steve Corino.

For someone who's never got his chance in WWE and WCW, he sure did make a name for himself in the World of professional wrestling. Think about this... he remained on top of ECW for a good year and a half, ran a successful wrestling company in Japan (Zero1), MLW built themselves around him (the Florida area) and WWE starting looking at that company as a legitimate thread, headlined ROH numerous times, had a few tapings with TNA before they hit big, headlined in Puerto Rico plenty of times (plus winning a championship there), headlined in Hawaii, headlined in Germany, had a run with the NWA Championship, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

He did all that, without ever getting ANY television exposure on WWE, WCW, or today's TNA. To me, that shows that he's the mostfamous independent wrestler of all time, because he truly is an independent wrestler to the fullest degree. You can't say the same for guys like RVD and Sabu.

Now, as far as anticipated... yeah, Danielson's gets the edge because of the internet. Every wrestling fan who's ever visited a wrestling site has at least heard the name "Bryan Danielson." Are there plenty of wrestling fans out there who had never heard of him before tonight? Yes, there are, but those fans can't anticipate anyone debuting for WWE anyway, so their opinions don't matter on this subject. Danielson though has gotten an unbelievable amount of hype from 'net fans since his ROH debut, and since that time there has been countless arguments between fans of both the indy scene and of WWE if whether or not Danielson could ever make it in WWE. Well, he made it there tonight, and in my opinion... did quite well for himself. I think time will tell that the Danielson hype and anticipation was lived up to, just like it was with CM Punk.

 

[dogman]

from what ive heard from people christoper daniels is. apparently he was like the king of the indies in the 90s. this is just from what ive heard from a few people.

 

[dman1373]

i don't feel its at all fair to count ecw as indy. It had monthly ppvs, a nationally seen tv show, and it had star power. Bigger names went their. If anything it was the last territory. Now CM Punk came like 4 years ago and to be honest, i had never seen ROH. But he got major hype from WWE. Now about three years ago i started watching roh and now i go to the tapings each month. So i knew Daniel Bryan [eek]. I looked up his FCW videos. He actually got hyped without the videos by indy fans that wwe had to put him over. He actually reminds me of eddie guerrero, chris benoit, chris jericho, and dean malenko. They wrestled around the world and mastered their craft before going to the big times.

 

[Tastycles]

It really depends what you mean by independant. TNA was arguably still an independant company by any criteria you could call ROH independant until 2004-5. In that case, there were much bigger names there. Similarly, ECW was also widely considered to be an Indy back in the day too, so you have guys like Raven being much bigger prospects. If we ignore those promotions though, the answer is probably yes, however there's an obvious reason for that. CM Punk was probably the biggest deal before that and maybe Samoa Joe before that going into TNA.

The reason is simple really, it's all to do with the internet. As the IWC grows, the hardcore wrestling fan base becomes more unified. This means that indy guys rather than being local heroes, are more national. This means that as time goes on, indy guys will be more well known before debuting. Obviously, there will be a saturation point, and we'll probably reach it soon, but I don't think we've reached it yet, so the next generation of indy darling, be it Austin Aries or whoever else, they will arrive with as much if not more hype.

 

[shattered dreams]

It seems heavily dependent on the size of the largest wrestling company that qualifies as independent. It is no coincidence once certain groups are ruled out people are naming a string of the largest allowed (ROH), with the most recent being most anticipated since the company continues to grow its fanbase. What would be equally interesting and hard to determine would be what is the wrestler that had best ratio of anticipated debut to prior exposure to the masses.

 

[TimtheKabim]

I disagree whats all said about Danielson.


My gripe with him is that he doesn't put all of these great moves together to make one good match, he just goes out there, slaps them on, and has awkward filler in between each spot.


What it all comes down to, if you believe that Danielson is the best wrestler in the world today, you're a bigger mark than any Cena fan.


Id say KENTA is the best in the world, Omega is a great upcomer and a goood friend of mine.

 

[RVDgurl]

I disagree whats all said about Danielson.


My gripe with him is that he doesn't put all of these great moves together to make one good match, he just goes out there, slaps them on, and has awkward filler in between each spot.

This is borderline ridiculous. There are some people that simply don't care for his style, but to say that he doesn't have good matches is crazy talk. Danielson has great ring psychology and very rarely does he ever slap on a move just for shits and giggles. Danielson is a tremendous technician and utilizes mat wrestling very well.

I'm going to assume that the "awkward fillers" you refer to are the rest holds or stretch holds that he has become famous for. Is this assumption correct? I honestly would love to know what awkward fillers you are talking about.

What it all comes down to, if you believe that Danielson is the best wrestler in the world today, you're a bigger mark than any Cena fan.

Again, I shake my head. I'm not grasping the point of this comment.

Id say KENTA is the best in the world, Omega is a great upcomer and a goood friend of mine.

KENTA is a great wrestler who has had countless 5 star matches with Bryan Danielson. They work well together. Yet more proof that Danielson is a phenomenal worker.

Also, I adore Kenny Omega. I've been in Omega withdrawl at ROH shows over the past couple of months. He is the guy on the card I look forward to seeing most in ROH since Danielson's departure.

 

[SteveAustinsucks]

This is borderline ridiculous. There are some people that simply don't care for his style, but to say that he doesn't have good matches is crazy talk. Danielson has great ring psychology and very rarely does he ever slap on a move just for shits and giggles. Danielson is a tremendous technician and utilizes mat wrestling very well.

I'm going to assume that the "awkward fillers" you refer to are the rest holds or stretch holds that he has become famous for. Is this assumption correct? I honestly would love to know what awkward fillers you are talking about.



Again, I shake my head. I'm not grasping the point of this comment.



KENTA is a great wrestler who has had countless 5 star matches with Bryan Danielson. They work well together. Yet more proof that Danielson is a phenomenal worker.

Also, I adore Kenny Omega. I've been in Omega withdrawl at ROH shows over the past couple of months. He is the guy on the card I look forward to seeing most in ROH since Danielson's departure.

Danielson's matches with Morishima, Paul London, Samoa Joe, Roderick Strong, Low Ki, AJ Styles, Nigel McGuinness, James Gibson etc were alot better than those one against KENTA.

And really, Danielson aint the best, KENTA carried Danielson in those matches, and they didnt have countless 5* matches. Watch ROH Glory by Honor V Night.


People just screaming around that Danielson in the best caus of his nickname " Best in the world " Its like the catchphrase of Hart, " Best there is, was, ever will be! " And Bret isnt the greatets of all time. Thats a fact. Danielson is not the best either.


KENTA is better than Danielson, everytime he stepps in the ring he shows great matches. Hell, id say even Kobashi is still nowdays the better worker, though people saying he gotten bad, he still shows amazing matches.

 

[RVDgurl]

Danielson's matches with Morishima, Paul London, Samoa Joe, Roderick Strong, Low Ki, AJ Styles, Nigel McGuinness, James Gibson etc were alot better than those one against KENTA.

Agreed. I simply used the KENTA matches as an example of Danielson's work because that's the name the poster brought up. Although later in this post you attempt to run Danielson down, you sure as hell acknowledge how good he is with this statement.

And really, Danielson aint the best, KENTA carried Danielson in those matches, and they didnt have countless 5* matches. Watch ROH Glory by Honor V Night.

Isn't the best according to who? I've seen the match from GBH V and it was good, but thanks for the suggestion.

People just screaming around that Danielson in the best caus of his nickname " Best in the world " Its like the catchphrase of Hart, " Best there is, was, ever will be! " And Bret isnt the greatets of all time. Thats a fact. Danielson is not the best either.

Wrestling is a matter of personal preference and opinion. It has nothing to do with who has the saavy catchphrases. There are many people who would argue both of your examples here. There are many fans who agree with my opinion on Bryan Danielson and there are probably more that would argue that Bret Hart is the best ever. Please do not confuse your opinion with "fact".

KENTA is better than Danielson, everytime he stepps in the ring he shows great matches. Hell, id say even Kobashi is still nowdays the better worker, though people saying he gotten bad, he still shows amazing matches.

Fact- this is your opinion.

 

[SteveAustinsucks]

No its not opinion. " I think" or " Whats if" is not how you win a debate. People need to get facts straight or just shut up. And no one would say Bret Hart is the best ever, just when your a Mainstream-mark who doesnt care whats outside the linear spectrum. No Worker on this planet will bring themself into say that Hart is the best ever. Just dumb little marks LOL. Mark Callous is so great because of his Ringpsychologie. The only thing you rlly need to be great is Ringpsychologie, without it, your terrible.
If people cant find something intelligent to say (and "I think" is not intelligent, I mean a statement of facts to back up your rhetoric)


And for the record: Im definetly not bashing Harts work. Hes one of the greatest guys this business has ever seen. Most guys had theit best match in their entire career, because they had to work with Bret Hart. Nash had his best match against Hart at SS 95. Owen Hart and Bulldog had their best matches with Hart. Anf dont forget Steve Austin( One of the worst and overrated Workers of all time ) also had his best match, because he had to wrestle with Hart. Hart made all of them look good in the ring, hes one of the greatest performers.
He was the first true Workers to get a push and started that pathway for other guys to get a push, but hes still far away from the best ever. He cant fuck with guys like Flair, Steamboat, Kobashi, Mutoh, Liger etc. And if someone here trying to bash Flairs work, im gonna shot every statement down like duck hunt.

 

[Барбоса]

It is all opinion. There are no facts when it comes to proving who is the best wrestler. There are no real stats to back up who you think is the best in the way you can in competitive sports. In that sense it is like comparing actors. They can have awards and can demand massive salaries the same way a wrestler has titles and headline major shows but in the end it all comes down to an individual's opinion as to who is the best.

There are plenty of people out there who think Bret Hart is the best wrestler ever. You might not agree and the person who holds it might not know much about wrestling outside of WWE but it is not bullshit to state that preference.

Personally, my favourite wrestlers to watch are Kurt Angle and CM Punk. They may not be considered amongst the best ever but they are my favourites.

Back to the question at hand, Danielson was certainly one of the most anticipated indy workers of recent times, alongside CM Punk and Samoa Joe. However, if ECW counts as an indy, I would say that Raven was the most famous and anticipated. His debut in WCW was seen as a way to keep the momentum going and perhaps even advance the product.

 

[Dr. Stinger A. Zoidberg]

Yes he is. In my opinion, he is one of if not the best wrestlers in the world. For the sake of this thread, I have gathered a list of awards given to him by Wrestling Observer Newsletter:
Best Technical wrestler:
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009

Match of The Year:
2007

Most outstanding wrestler:
2006
2007
2008
2009

For those of you that dont know, in the Most Outstanding wrestler category, he gets the award more times than Kurt Angle, Ric Flair, Jushin Liger, and Misawa. All of whom have gotten 2 or more of these awards.

In the Best Technical Wrestler category, He is tied with Chris Benoit at 5 awards. He beats out people like Dean Malenko, Jushin Liger, Tiger Mask, and Tatsumi Fujinama

If that doesnt say that he is the most anticipated absed on ability. I dont know what does.....

 

[SteveAustinsucks]

Yes he is. In my opinion, he is one of if not the best wrestlers in the world. For the sake of this thread, I have gathered a list of awards given to him by Wrestling Observer Newsletter:
Best Technical wrestler:
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009

Match of The Year:
2007

Most outstanding wrestler:
2006
2007
2008
2009

For those of you that dont know, in the Most Outstanding wrestler category, he gets the award more times than Kurt Angle, Ric Flair, Jushin Liger, and Misawa. All of whom have gotten 2 or more of these awards.

In the Best Technical Wrestler category, He is tied with Chris Benoit at 5 awards. He beats out people like Dean Malenko, Jushin Liger, Tiger Mask, and Tatsumi Fujinama

If that doesnt say that he is the most anticipated absed on ability. I dont know what does.....

What point are you try to make with that statement? Danielson never beats out Liger. In no aspect. Watch Liger in the 90s, he was with Kobashi Non-Plus-Ultra and the best Worker in Japan. So this awards doesnt say anything. Liger is one of the greatest High-flyers, Mat-technicans and performers of all time. THE greatest Junior Heavyweight of all time. Hes a level all by himself. I dont care about the awards man, and i dont care about Meltzer either LOL. Its behind me how Ultimo Dragon doesnt have one legit 5* match in his entire career. And id say those matches against Liger, Otani and Delfin are easily 5* potential. Danielson was maybe more outsanding Wrestler than Flair and Liger, but that still doesnt make him better! Just because someone has won more awards and has more 5* matches than someone else, doesnt mean hes better. Bret Hart has more 5* matches than Liger, Mutoh and Ultimo. So what? That still doesnt make him better. People need to realize that god damn it.


And youre saying Danielson has won the most outstanding awards of the year often than Flair. Well..then i gotta say, Flair has won the Wrestler of the year award often than Danielson and anybody else! So the point you make is foolisch and nonscence. Judging Workers because of the awards.


Jushin Liger and Misawa are by light years better than Danielson LOL. Danielson doesn't compare to Misawa in the ring in any fashion and anybody with a brain knows that. Misawa was the better Worker, Ringpsychologiest and athlete. Misawa beats Danielson in every single aspect. Your a huge fanboy with no knowledge.

 

[Dr. Stinger A. Zoidberg]

What point are you try to make with that statement? Danielson never beats out Liger. In no aspect. Watch Liger in the 90s, he was with Kobashi Non-Plus-Ultra and the best Worker in Japan. So this awards doesnt say anything. Liger is one of the greatest High-flyers, Mat-technicans and performers of all time. THE greatest Junior Heavyweight of all time. Hes a level all by himself. I dont care about the awards man, and i dont care about Meltzer either LOL. Its behind me how Ultimo Dragon doesnt have one legit 5* match in his entire career. And id say those matches against Liger, Otani and Delfin are easily 5* potential. Danielson was maybe more outsanding Wrestler than Flair and Liger, but that still doesnt make him better! Just because someone has won more awards and has more 5* matches than someone else, doesnt mean hes better. Bret Hart has more 5* matches than Liger, Mutoh and Ultimo. So what? That still doesnt make him better. People need to realize that god damn it.

And youre saying Danielson has won the most outstanding awards of the year often than Flair. Well..then i gotta say, Flair has won the Wrestler of the year award often than Danielson and anybody else! So the point you make is foolisch and nonscence. Judging Workers because of the awards.


Jushin Liger and Misawa are by light years better than Danielson LOL. Danielson doesn't compare to Misawa in the ring in any fashion and anybody with a brain knows that. Misawa was the better Worker, Ringpsychologiest and athlete. Misawa beats Danielson in every single aspect. Your a huge fanboy with no knowledge.

We're talking about the Indies here. Yeah Liger and Misawa were better than Danielson, but they were both in big name companies. New Japan Pro Wrestling. Obviously Flair is better, hes the fucking Nature Boy. Im not saying he's better than any of these guys, Im pointing out how with the awards he has and how many of them, beating out big name stars. Should make him the most famous and most anticipated Indy wrestler ever.

Btw, Learn to spell 'foolish' right.

 

[ChrisNutter]

I don't believe that Danielson is the most anticipated, because when CM Punk left and went to the WWE he received a huge pop the first time he was on television, and especially at ECW One Night Stand when he had his debut there. The place went absolutely crazy.

However define Indy wrestlers, if your talking about Japanese also, then no during the 90's when you had guys like Sasake, and Liger enter into WCW, or back in the late 80's when the Great Muta made his debut as one of the most hated heels back then with Gary Hart as his manager.

 

[RVDgurl]

No its not opinion. " I think" or " Whats if" is not how you win a debate. People need to get facts straight or just shut up.

What the fuck do you mean it's not opinion? Are you serious? Of course it's opinion. I've never seen any list that identifies all the criteria for being the best wrestler. If such a list exists, then please enlighten me.

And no one would say Bret Hart is the best ever, just when your a Mainstream-mark who doesnt care whats outside the linear spectrum.

You have succeeded in convincing me that you are an absolute moron. You are making this ridiculous statement on a forum that just voted Bret Hart the best wrestler in a tournament this year. Yes, I said voting...do you know what that is? It's people giving their opinions.

No Worker on this planet will bring themself into say that Hart is the best ever. Just dumb little marks LOL. Mark Callous is so great because of his Ringpsychologie. The only thing you rlly need to be great is Ringpsychologie, without it, your terrible.
If people cant find something intelligent to say (and "I think" is not intelligent, I mean a statement of facts to back up your rhetoric)

Mark Callous? Are you referring to the work that he did solely under this gimmick? I agree that Mark Calloway is a great worker. I like him better than Bret Hart, but the FACT is that some people think that Hart is better.

Really, you are all over the place here. Complaining about finding something intelligent to say, yet you have not made one semi-intelligent statement. You have flooded your posts with your opinion, all the while mispelling words and disregarding punctuation.

Nowhere in this entire thread did I insist that Bryan Danielson is without a doubt the best wrestler in the world. I will say that is my opinion as I would chose to watch him perform over any other wrestler. Please don't think you're going to put words in my mouth for the sole purpose of trying to "debate" with me. Which for the record, you suck at this whole 'debate" thing anyway.

 

[SteveAustinsucks]

Damn! You're a woman! Maybe I should take this disussion on a bit of a lighter edge LOL.

I dont know how Bret Hart won that tournament, but i guess most of the guys who voted clearly doesnt have any clue what so ever. Guys who voted Bret Hart as the best Wrestler ever never ever seen one Kobashi or Jushin Liger match. Typical for pathetic little marks. Ive seen people say Bret Hart is complete garbage, terrible in the ring and on the mic. So them people are underrating Bret Hart. But if someone says He's the best wrestler ever, then yes he would be overrated. I seen many people say he's better then Ric Flair, which he's not even close to Flair. Come with arguments and facts, all you said is totally your opinion there is no 'fact' based on what your saying.
You are insulting us trained professionals with this rhetoric you spew.
When Hart is considered a greater technical Wrestler than Flair by compairing him to Flairs final 15 years in the business thats nonsense.