Influence of an attitude

slimmshady

Pre-Show Stalwart
Hey guys. Last night I was watching some old matches from the attitude era and started to wonder why was that particular era more successful than the current PG era, if you like. You hear news on vince, telling how futrated he has become in realizing that he isn't producing huge stars. With the exception of john cena, mysterio and to a certain extent, batista, wwe has struggled to produce main eventers and more importantly, money makers. Now I understand that some of you guys will critisize me in saying that what about morrison, koffi etc, but the fact is they really aren't huge stars yet. I know that they have the talent to go big in the future, but without the right momentum, they will go nowhere.
Now the reason why I have decided to call this thread, "influence of an attitude", is because I truley feel that the attitude era wasn't just a physical influence upon the wwe or wwf at that time. If you really think about it, you will see that it also affected the mental side of the business and more importantly, the wrestlers. This so called "attitude" allowed a different method of approach to be used to compete against wwf's major rivals - wcw.
I know we shouldn't, but if you compare the wrestling that you see today with the wrestling during the attiude era, you will a major contrast between the style and approach. This is why the wwf created a group of huge stars during that time.
Firstly, lets kicks things off things by talking about the rock. When dwayne johnson entered the wwf ring for the first time, a few years before the attitude era, he was called Rocky Maivia. At the time, everyone in the wwf knew that dwayne had huge in-ring potential, all he needed was the right feuds and a big push. Finally dwayne got the push that he needed after only three months in the business and won his first Intercontinental title from Hunter Hearst Helmsley on Raw on February 13, 1997. But because of his goody two-shoes, one-sided gimmick, the fans grew sick of him. After returning from injury, the rock developed an "attitude" and was born as a heel. The wwf universe was shown that dwayne had major promo talent as he literally, ripped the fans week in week out. And thats what made the rock, the most electrifying man in sports entertainment till this day.
Next we have Hunter Hearst Helmsley aka. the game triple H. The same thing happened to hunter except that he was heel even from his early days of working for wcw. His major push into DX led the game developing an "attitude" to form triple H.
Then we have the undertaker. For taker, it was a different story. The undertaker was already established in the wwf as the dead man himself so basically he was a huge star from his early days of working for vince. However, as undertaker had a true understanding of what the attitude era was going to be about, combined with his talented wrestling brain, he realized that his dead man gimmick was becoming stale and really wasn't working in favour of the wwf taking a more realistic approach. So on judgement day 2000, the undertaker returned but this time with the amercian badass persona. And I'm sure that everyone here knows what this gimmick was all about. Once again, just as the others, he developed an "attitude".
Next we have shawn michaels. During his early days, michaels worked mainly as a huge face for the company. He was known as Mr Wrestlemania for his spectacular moments of the matches he competed in. Then we the development of an "attitude" when he joined DX.
And finally, we have the toughest son of a bitch that has ever walked into the wwf/e. Thats right, the texas rattlesnake himself, stone cold steve austin. Some say that he revolutionized the attitude era and that he was the one that kick started it. Austin started off as a face in wcw and eventually ended up in the wwf as both a huge heel and face. However, no one will ever forget his 3:16 promo in 1996 at king of the ring. From there onwards, austin dumped his blonde hair and went with the full clean shave look. He did things to vince that everyone else wished that they could do to their own bosses. Once again, he developed an "attitude" that led to him becoming the star that he is today.
Now with the exception of kane, everyone else that worked for the wwf during and prior to the attitude era, developed an "attitude" that somehow established their own reputation. Guys like the hardy boys. They started off as two punk kids that would job to the bigger guys and yet the evolution as the high-flying risk takers made them what they are today. The same can be said about edge and christian, the dudleys and the list goes on.
All this happened because of the influence of an attitude change and thats what kick started the glory days, knicknamed the attidude era.
Now in this current day, the wwe has struggled to adapt the image of their wrestlers into the PG era that they have created. Even the older guys like kane, undertaker etc are struggling to adapt their image to the PG rating. For example, I don't think we will ever see an inferno match, casket match, buried alive match and chain match just because they don't fit with the current PG rating. With the exception of john cena and rey mysterio, the rest of the locker room has really struggled to keep up with times.
 
It's just an attribute that fans loves so much, the same applies even when we take a look at our currents stars. Randy Orton is getting more and more cheers each passing week because of the exact same "attitude" he has that the fans dig. He was kicking his boss's skull, getting in the face of authority and don't give a damn about everyone else. Even the top baby face in John Cena truly got over during his rapper gimmick run. Which also, had that "attitude" that the fans simply loves.
 
I kinda agree with you.yes in that time there was a certain "attitude" being applied by characters back then.but what REALLY aided that era was how the wrestlers were allowed to b creative and really have a say into molding their personas.with all the names you mentioned,what made them and helped them gain momentum in that age was thembeing permitted to BE THE CHARACTER they were portraying.how different would it be now,if the rock were "memorizing" his promos and not really becoming the rock an letting that natural charisma shine through?that's why wwe is having problems.witht the exception of a few,all the guys are being told what to say and then go out and "entertain".what happened to the days when the WRESTLING spoke for itself and all you had to do was make your character believable.I cAn't get behind wwe cuz mostly all the "entertainers" sound alike,look alike,and wrestle alike.there is too much parody in wwe.everyone shouldn't be the same there should be some way to distinguish one guy from the next.that's why the afformentioned stars were just that....stars.they were slowed to be different and not follow the mold.you aren't going to see a change until creative gets creative and allows the "attitude" of the WRESTLERS to shine....remarks?
 
It's just an attribute that fans loves so much, the same applies even when we take a look at our currents stars. Randy Orton is getting more and more cheers each passing week because of the exact same "attitude" he has that the fans dig. He was kicking his boss's skull, getting in the face of authority and don't give a damn about everyone else. Even the top baby face in John Cena truly got over during his rapper gimmick run. Which also, had that "attitude" that the fans simply loves.

If "attitude" is what made wwe what it is today then why haven't wwe and vince gone in favour of more "attitude"? Basically attitude = money according to the success that wwe has had in the past. What suddenly gave them the idea that PG would be the best choice? I know that john cena had a say but he is not only to blame. You know, it's one of these topics where you know what needs to be done to correct it, yet the guys behind the scenes seem to want to continue this current role. For some reason they continue to repeat the same mistake over and over again. For example, cena, orton or triple H seem to be facing eachother over and over again for the last 3 years. With the exception of WM23, where cena faced michaels and a couple of DX reunions, the same story has been used repeatedly amongst the three.
 
I kinda agree with you.yes in that time there was a certain "attitude" being applied by characters back then.but what REALLY aided that era was how the wrestlers were allowed to b creative and really have a say into molding their personas.with all the names you mentioned,what made them and helped them gain momentum in that age was thembeing permitted to BE THE CHARACTER they were portraying.how different would it be now,if the rock were "memorizing" his promos and not really becoming the rock an letting that natural charisma shine through?that's why wwe is having problems.witht the exception of a few,all the guys are being told what to say and then go out and "entertain".what happened to the days when the WRESTLING spoke for itself and all you had to do was make your character believable.I cAn't get behind wwe cuz mostly all the "entertainers" sound alike,look alike,and wrestle alike.there is too much parody in wwe.everyone shouldn't be the same there should be some way to distinguish one guy from the next.that's why the afformentioned stars were just that....stars.they were slowed to be different and not follow the mold.you aren't going to see a change until creative gets creative and allows the "attitude" of the WRESTLERS to shine....remarks?

What you say is 100% correct. The wrestlers are too alike eachother and not given enough freedom to evolve. You know, vince and the wwe really need to create something on their website that allows the fans to interact with eachother and know that what they are posting, is being read by someone if not a group of people working for the creative team of wwe. What you just said could really be used to summarize what has happened over the last 10 years and allow the wwe to fix the issues. I know that some of the comments that we make on this forum are quite harsh and unrelivant, however comments such as this one could really be used as a guiding tool to develop future stars and improve the overall product.
 
Creatively-speaking, WWE has been awful ... absolutely awful for the past several years. But that is because they wanted to move towards PG television. That is why the number of promos have been cut and the greater concentration has been placed on the in-ring action, instead. The promos that they do have, however, have been extremely toned down.

In other words, Vince wanted his fans to derive their entertainment solely from the wrestling itself, at one point. That didn't seem to work when they tried that in 2007 and 2008 and ratings dropped. Now, he has gone back to more promos on his shows, but they are very toned down.

And they are so restricted in what they can and can't do because of that damn rating. Vince wants to know why he can't create more stars ... but it's obvious to pretty much everyone who can look at things critically, that the rating is what is holding people back from showing that "attitude". Orton is about the closest thing they can get to that edginess, even though he is still being held back by the rating.

The PG Era and the Attitude Era are both extremely profitable Eras. The PG Era however, is actually more profitable than the Attitude Era was. HOWEVER, that is because of internal decisions and raising prices across the board (ticket prices, PPV prices, merchandise prices, etc.)

The key in examining the true popularity of the wrestling product is attendance, ratings, and PPV buys. And each of those are far lower than what the Attitude Era produced.

So one can conclude that The Attitude Era was unquestionably more popular, however the PG Era is simply more profitable. Had Vince charged the same prices for his product all-around in the Attitude Era what he charges today, than the Attitude Era would have been more profitable.

But, I am wandering off-topic. Yes, attitude is what is holding the talent back from breaking out and becoming "the next big thing".
 
I think that this is an interesting theory, that the actual theme of "attitude" molded all these current stars into being on top like they are today. I think the theory is sound, and needs to be applied in a modern way.

Like, even the old school cartoony WWF of the late 80's early 90's still had some bad ass attitudes in it's wrestlers. They may not have had cursing and the harsher stuff, but there was some attitude there too, just in a late 80's/early 90's type of way. Similarly, we need a 2009 type attitude to take hold and influence today's wrestlers, who all have great skills if they just had the storylines and trust of the wwe to truly be the character fit for them.

It's really hard to describe that something that makes a good wrestling show a good show, but I think people on here are getting closer to what that is and how the wwe can become better than ever.
 
I'm hoping TNA goes in the direction of the "attitude era". I'm also hoping they go in the direction of the original ECW.
Hardcore and attitude = ratings and therefore = success.
 
I'm hoping TNA goes in the direction of the "attitude era". I'm also hoping they go in the direction of the original ECW.
Hardcore and attitude = ratings and therefore = success.

I hope you didn't just use ECW and ratings in the same sentence. It was a good promotion but ratings are something they couldn't buy. Othewise the WWE as a whole is still an enjoyable show, and it will continue to be so. Sure 99% of the new guys are bland but it takes time to develop a character. In time we will see some of these dudes establish a personality or at the very least a niche gimmick that keeps them around. It wasn't a collective attitude that created the mega stars of the Attitude era, it was the freedom given to the performers to go balls to the wall and see what they could do. The only attitude shared then was the " oh shit, if we don't do something WCW is going to win this thing".
 
Well i see what you're saying......I understand what you mean. And, for the most part.....I agree completely.

But there's something i couldn't just leave untouched......

"Next we have shawn michaels. During his early days, michaels worked mainly as a huge face for the company. He was known as Mr Wrestlemania
for his spectacular moments of the matches he competed in. Then we the development of an "attitude" when he joined DX."

Ok first off, the whole "Mr. Wrestlemania" thing has only been from the past few years....that moniker is not one of the attitude era or even before. Did he put on great matches at mania? yeah.....but he was not "Mr. Wrestlemania" until recently.

Second, yes HBK was a face before DX....but you're acting like that was his whole career to that point......which brings me to.....

Point Number three, you claim he developed an "attitude" when he joined DX. Watch the Shawn Michaels of old please....learn your history. From the end of The Rockers to before his first world title....Shawn OOZED attitude. THE HEARTBREAK KID was a heel charachter who was full of himself and all about sex and controversy before there even was a DX. Anyone remember IC Champion Shawn Michaels on "USA'S Up All Night" back in the day.....making sexual jokes about Jenny McCarthy (I Think that was who was the host) How many partners has shawn turned his back on? How many times has Shawn been involved in controversy?

Shawn was Attitude before Attitude was cool.

Sorry to go off on a rant there but i just felt you were WAY off with your statement.
 
Well i see what you're saying......I understand what you mean. And, for the most part.....I agree completely.

But there's something i couldn't just leave untouched......

"Next we have shawn michaels. During his early days, michaels worked mainly as a huge face for the company. He was known as Mr Wrestlemania
for his spectacular moments of the matches he competed in. Then we the development of an "attitude" when he joined DX."

Ok first off, the whole "Mr. Wrestlemania" thing has only been from the past few years....that moniker is not one of the attitude era or even before. Did he put on great matches at mania? yeah.....but he was not "Mr. Wrestlemania" until recently.

Second, yes HBK was a face before DX....but you're acting like that was his whole career to that point......which brings me to.....

Point Number three, you claim he developed an "attitude" when he joined DX. Watch the Shawn Michaels of old please....learn your history. From the end of The Rockers to before his first world title....Shawn OOZED attitude. THE HEARTBREAK KID was a heel charachter who was full of himself and all about sex and controversy before there even was a DX. Anyone remember IC Champion Shawn Michaels on "USA'S Up All Night" back in the day.....making sexual jokes about Jenny McCarthy (I Think that was who was the host) How many partners has shawn turned his back on? How many times has Shawn been involved in controversy?

Shawn was Attitude before Attitude was cool.

Sorry to go off on a rant there but i just felt you were WAY off with your statement.

Fair enough. I'm sorry that I didn't give a detailed summary on michaels. Thanks for your summary.
 
What you say is 100% correct. The wrestlers are too alike eachother and not given enough freedom to evolve. You know, vince and the wwe really need to create something on their website that allows the fans to interact with eachother and know that what they are posting, is being read by someone if not a group of people working for the creative team of wwe. What you just said could really be used to summarize what has happened over the last 10 years and allow the wwe to fix the issues. I know that some of the comments that we make on this forum are quite harsh and unrelivant, however comments such as this one could really be used as a guiding tool to develop future stars and improve the overall product.

thats exactly what im saying.they really need to let those guys go out there and BE THE CHARACTER!!!!(we should start a tag team and start the "BE THE CHARACTER" movement going.what you think?)

they need to really get the "wwe universe" opinion of things and maybe wwe wouldnt be going down the drain like it is.sadly they wont have any competiton any time soon so they have free reign to do w/e and know that we r still gonna watch cuz there isnt really much else wrestling wise worthy of watching.(and no TNA aint it.tehy are in the same position as wwe.too much talent but no outlet for the talent to grow.why did it take 2 years to get AJ the title?!?!?!?!?!?!thats why they cant even be considered competition,just another wrestling promotion.)
 

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