Implementing The "Piggy James" Angle Was A Great Creative Decision

[Viola Moonlight]

For many times over the boards, I have heard people complain and bitch about the fact that the women's division has been absolutely terrible with Trish and Lita leaving, Victoria being reduced to a jobber role then leaving and bringing up/promoting models instead of wrestlers. Basically, the last time anyone took notice of the women's division for a feud was the Mickie/Trish psychotic storyline and people wanted the division to mean more than a piss break.

The WWE finally "listens" to the cries and actually develops a credible feud. Mickie James and Michelle McCool have not faced off before this ever happened (and if it did, it was on rare occasion), so there was some potential. McCool was coming into her own as a heel and really got the crowd to boo her. Mickie is over with the fans and actually gets a decent reaction from the crowd everytime. So, instead of throwing a masterpiece away, they decided to add some storyline that would get people to watch. They decided to use a real life scenario and exploit it in over-the-top fashion so the heel (McCool) could gain some serious hate and the face (Mickie) would get the backing from the crowd. And the best thing is, they featured it on a brand that right now is doing wonders in all aspects of creative. The particular storyline involved McCool teasing Mickie about her weight issues, something well noted over the past years before with the masses (people noticing she is gaining weight) and the IWC (her "doghouse" issues). This has never been done on a full scale like this has been and is quite the well-done angle in putting McCool over as the next big dog of the WWE, using Mickie to provide her with the rub (someone who will be over no matter what happens).

And then what does everyone do? They bitch about it. They complain that this storyline was distasteful, disguisting and low, promoting to the audiences that being thinner than a twig was the in thing, and that normal sized women are considered fat. Then, they reverted back to the issues where Diva's are known to be pretty and thin with huge knockers and say how Mickie is only there because of her popularity.

Well guess what guys? This has cultimated as one of the better feuds that the women's division has seen and could easily be ranked up there with the best. Due to the overwhelming reaction by the audiences on how Michelle teases Mickie, and how Mickie portrays her side, they entire thing has been well done. They have had limited wrestling matches, and they both are ace in their respective alignment roles, so there is an actual wanting to see a Diva's match. The factors are all there to create one heck of a storyline... but there are people who are blinded by political-correctness that won't allow themselves to suspend their beliefs for a moment to enjoy a treat we may not get to see for a while come.


So, I ask all of you out there, from what you have seen so far, do you regret what you have said about the angle being distasteful and accept that this is one of the more interesting feuds (and possibly match at the RR)? Or are you still stupid enough to believe that this angle should be scrapped and never thought of? In other words, how do you feel about this "Piggy James" angle as time has gone past and the story has developed?

 

[Dagger Dias]

So, I ask all of you out there, from what you have seen so far, do you regret what you have said about the angle being distasteful and accept that this is one of the more interesting feuds (and possibly match at the RR)? Or are you still stupid enough to believe that this angle should be scrapped and never thought of? In other words, how do you feel about this "Piggy James" angle as time has gone past and the story has developed?

I am one of the very few who has defended the Piggy James storyline since it began. In countless posts I have discussed how this storyline not only did what it was supposed to do, but it's also the best storyline the divas have had since Trish and Lita left 4 years ago. I agree with your post completely. Everyone ranted on here about how this angle is "unfair" to Mickie because it is a personal issue that shouldn't be in the storylines, etc.... That's exactly how WWE wanted us to react! It gave hatred towards Michelle as the top heel (she deserves at least half the credit for this awesome feud!) and fan support/sympathy for Mickie. The angle has so far fulfilled the objectives it was created to do. I think that anyone who is still complaining about this storyline has no excuse to rant about the divas lack of good storylines after this one ends, because this is the best we are going to see for a long time. I have honestly enjoyed every minute of it, despite the fact that I'm rooting for Michelle instead of Mickie.

I do not regret any past statements about this angle, mainly because I supported it from the beginning. There is no reason for WWE to not have done this angle, it's nowhere near as controversial as people tried to make it look. In fact, I honestly hope Michelle wins the whole feud! It would solidify her status as the top heel diva if she gets the best of "Piggy James". Most fans will want Mickie to win because her character (kayfabe) deserves it after what she's been through. So there is a good outcome no matter who wins in the end. I hope that the people who bashed this angle take some time to think about what good it has been for the divas, IT IS GIVING THE DIVISION MORE ATTENTION! Fans actually CARE about a divas feud for the first time in years! I've enjoyed this feud since it began and when it ends it will go down as one of most memorable divas feuds, probably THE best one if you disregard any of Trish's.

 

[RayneJames81]

I absolutely love the angle/storyline between these two ladies. I think that it has built up the interest in the Divas division on Smackdown and these two ladies along with Layla are playing it up ever so well!!!!! I think some people feel they are using this story because they really feel Mickie is overweight and is being punished. People, I dont think so. Anyone who thinks Mickie is fat, needs to get a pair of glasses. I am very stoked to see how things turn out at the Rumble, but I am HOPING Miss James kicks the tar outta Michelle and wins her 5th Womens Champion!!! Go Mickie!!!!

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

I can never truey like this feud without hating it at the same time.

I agree that it has been the biggest feud since the mickie vs trish storyline and that it has brought many attention to the womans division. It has FINALLY build michelle into a heel that everyone boos. It has also shown that the divas CAN have a feud that allot of people would care about and (hopefully) the creative teams would be making more feuds like these to build the womans division further into a strong division.

But it has it's negatives non the less. If you are going to bring real life problems into a feud, it is disrespectful to the wrestler/diva no matter what. I stand by this point because it what I feel that is human. WWE have gone overboard with this and I just can't stand to see them pushing mickie's weight gain down her throat.
It is also gives WWE itself heat. I for one hate the WWE for doing this and don't know if I will continue to watch WWE when my favorite wrestlers leave.

In the end it was a good feud and it has done the womans division some good. It has brought many attention to it and that is what the division needed. Now lets hope that the creative teams capitilize on this and continue doing a good job. If hey continue like this than thee will be a great future for the division.

Now for the results of this feud is really critical in my opinion. Sure, michelle needs to solidify her heel role and this might be the way for her to do that. But there are to many negatives in my opinion.

First of all u need to think that allot of kids are watching. This feud has allot of meaning for heel to win the feud in my opinion. We don't want kids acting like michelle now do we.

We also need to think that giving mickie the win is a really good payback for all the bull that the wwe has done to her in this feud. It was way over the extreme and wwe needs to have her win this feud to show that they still have respect for her. If she looses, I feel that its just a slap to her face and just disrespectful.

And with Mickie James winning is the only way that I will say that this feud was a great creative decision. Let' see what happens at the rumble.

I just hope I have enough time for it since I have calculus midterm on monday and a quiz :S.... FML

 

[D-Man]

I'm all for the Piggy James segment, but I think there's a bigger issue here that should be plain to see. I don't think that people are necessarily knocking the segment because they believe it's bad. In the same sense, I don't think people are knocking Mickie James because she's "fat", or the Bella Twins because they're "ugly."

The issue that's plaguing the women's division is a tough pill to swallow... people hate women's wrestling. Sorry, but it's true. It's not a matter of Mickie being fat, or the women can't wrestle... at least not so much anymore. The division has gone into such a downward spiral and hit such an all-time low that no one can find one shred of positivity in the division, no matter what storylines the WWE comes up with. The women will always be ridiculed for one reason or the next, the writing is never going to be good enough, and unless every female in the division turns into a wrestler with Beth Phoenix's skill and Maryse's looks, no one will ever be satisfied.

We have to face facts... women's wrestling suck out loud and has done so for years. They're stuck in a major rut right now. Case in point, the ODB/Tara storyline in TNA. The storyline's direction has ODB making fun of Tara because she gained her notoriety in a women's division that is a joke to the professional wrestling world, yet it's in the world's largest wrestling promotion. If I were a female wrestler in the WWE, I'd be embarrassed, too. Imagine being in the greatest company in the world as it pertains to the business that you're in, except your division is a joke to the industry. It's a hard pill to swallow.

Obviously, the WWE is trying to fix all of this. The Piggie James segments are HUGE steps in the right direction. However, it takes a lot more than a storyline to build a division from nothing. You also need star power and visually stunning television. Weekly both-fests in the women's matches aren't helping things much. Having very good women's wrestlers and very crappy women's wrestlers facing off is a recipe for disaster. The division needs to be treated like the tag team division was treated... find your best talent and completely cater the division around them. One problem: There isn't enough talent like Beth Phoenix and Mickie James on the roster. Not to mention that those two have feuded a billion times and can't seem to draw any attention.

In conclusion, the problem that Falkon has here is much bigger than just one interesting storyline. The bad taste that's been left in the fans' mouthes from the dogshit we've been fed since Trish and Lita's departure is pretty substantial. It's going to take a lot of time to fix. But don't expect one storyline to do it. At the rate they've been going, the women's division is going to need about 20 "PIGGY JAMES" segments to get out of the hole.

 

[ZeroVX]

I disagree entirely. I despise this angle and pray for the day it's finally over. I can't even watch Smackdown most of the time because of this.

Never mind the fact that this has dragged on for WAY too long, but the damage this has done to Mickie James' character is what's bothered me much more. Four years ago, she was the next big women's wrestler, in an innovative feud with Trish Stratus, and even won the belt from her at Wrestlemania. She has since gone on to have excellent matches with Melina and Beth Phoenix, two of the best women's wrestlers today. She's been portrayed as a spunky, strong-willed person. She's basically the female John Cena.

Now, here she is, with rumours floating about that she's leaving to focus on her country music career, and the current champion, Michelle McCool, who has improved in-ring wise but is still annoying on the mic, is now calling her fat. That's the big thing here. She's calling her fat.

And that's not what bothers me about this. What bothers me is that James is actually taking offense to this. So much so that she's crying in the ring while the promo is going on.

2006: Stalking Trish Stratus and eventually beating her at Wrestlemania.

2009-2010: Crying at being called fat.

BULLSHIT.

First of all, she is not fat. Let's throw that out of the way right now. Cedric the Entertainer, he's fat. Samoa Joe, he's fat. Hell, I'M fat compared to her! And the worst I have is a gut. The idea of calling Mickie James fat just because her ribs aren't visible through her skin is ludicrous.

Second, it makes no sense to have her be insulted by being called fat. Out of all the things that could've been used as an insult to her, that is the weakest and most-used insult I can think of. Saying that Mickie can't sing would be more plausible. And, I have to reiterate, because this is important, THIS CAUSED HER TO CRY. I'm sorry, but I can't get over that. I get that Vince McMahon thinks that if it happened more than 3-4 months ago that fans forget it ever happened, but if you payed attention to James' character from even a year ago, she was the last person to have CRIED AT BEING CALLED FAT. She was, and in many ways, still is, the most popular diva on the roster, and one of the most athletically gifted as well. She was confident, strong-willed, and very likable. This does not fit in with that character at all.

OK, so it makes Michelle look like a high-school bitch. Fine. It makes Layla look like a stupid high-school bitch for following her. Fine. But the way they're going about this is just burying Mickie James. I get that the fans should be patient and wait and see what happens, but honestly, James has gotten buried in this feud. Yes, there have been one or two moments where she seems to be making a comeback, but in between beat-downs from Team LayCool (as they put it), as well as an attack from Beth Phoenix, and THE CRYING, and what's going to happen tonight (if you've read the spoilers, you know), she hasn't shown any promise that she's going to win this Sunday.

All I can say is that if she really is leaving, after what's happened here, I can't blame her.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I can never truey like this feud without hating it at the same time.

I agree that it has been the biggest feud since the mickie vs trish storyline and that it has brought many attention to the womans division. It has FINALLY build michelle into a heel that everyone boos. It has also shown that the divas CAN have a feud that allot of people would care about and (hopefully) the creative teams would be making more feuds like these to build the womans division further into a strong division.

But it has it's negatives non the less. If you are going to bring real life problems into a feud, it is disrespectful to the wrestler/diva no matter what. I stand by this point because it what I feel that is human. WWE have gone overboard with this and I just can't stand to see them pushing mickie's weight gain down her throat.
It is also gives WWE itself heat. I for one hate the WWE for doing this and don't know if I will continue to watch WWE when my favorite wrestlers leave.

In the end it was a good feud and it has done the womans division some good. It has brought many attention to it and that is what the division needed. Now lets hope that the creative teams capitilize on this and continue doing a good job. If hey continue like this than thee will be a great future for the division.

Now for the results of this feud is really critical in my opinion. Sure, michelle needs to solidify her heel role and this might be the way for her to do that. But there are to many negatives in my opinion.

First of all u need to think that allot of kids are watching. This feud has allot of meaning for heel to win the feud in my opinion. We don't want kids acting like michelle now do we.

We also need to think that giving mickie the win is a really good payback for all the bull that the wwe has done to her in this feud. It was way over the extreme and wwe needs to have her win this feud to show that they still have respect for her. If she looses, I feel that its just a slap to her face and just disrespectful.

And with Mickie James winning is the only way that I will say that this feud was a great creative decision. Let' see what happens at the rumble.

I just hope I have enough time for it since I have calculus midterm on monday and a quiz :S.... FML

Bro.... once again you prove my point and this isn't even the thread we were debating in lol.... You and I have been going back and forth ever since before the Piggie James angle started. The thread about Mickie has around 140 replies to it, and probably 100 of those is us debating. You are reacting exactly how WWE wants you to, and that's what's so good about this feud. It got Michelle some more heel heat and Mickie some fan sympathy/support. I understand that you have your reasons for thinking it's controversial, but it's honestly nowhere near as controversial as some of the stuff from the Attitude Era. Besides, it's a great decision by creative to have made this feud because the fans FINALLY care about a divas angle for the first time in years.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I disagree entirely. I despise this angle and pray for the day it's finally over. I can't even watch Smackdown most of the time because of this.

This is the major problem. Fans complain about how the divas division is terrible, then you are given the best angle the girls have had in 4 years, and still people complain. Not necessarily you, I meant a lot of people.

Never mind the fact that this has dragged on for WAY too long, but the damage this has done to Mickie James' character is what's bothered me much more. Four years ago, she was the next big women's wrestler, in an innovative feud with Trish Stratus, and even won the belt from her at Wrestlemania. She has since gone on to have excellent matches with Melina and Beth Phoenix, two of the best women's wrestlers today. She's been portrayed as a spunky, strong-willed person. She's basically the female John Cena.

How is this damaging Mickie's character? She is sticking up for other nice girls who have been treated bad by the mean girls. If anything this feud is bringing her further up in terms of how good of a character she has. Trish did pass the torch to Mickie, but she wasn't able to save a dying division. I wouldn't call her the female John Cena though.... Mickie is not the face of womens' wrestling. Trish was back when she was still around, so if anyone was the female John Cena it was Trish.

Now, here she is, with rumours floating about that she's leaving to focus on her country music career, and the current champion, Michelle McCool, who has improved in-ring wise but is still annoying on the mic, is now calling her fat. That's the big thing here. She's calling her fat.

That's to get heel heat for Michelle. You're SUPPOSED to be upset at Michelle's character. She's doing her job since this obviously bugs you. As for rumors on Mickie leaving, that's a green light for her to pass the torch. Michelle can get more heel heat by bragging about "scaring away Piggy James" or something, and will continue to improve as the top heel diva.

And that's not what bothers me about this. What bothers me is that James is actually taking offense to this. So much so that she's crying in the ring while the promo is going on.

That's to get fan support and sympathy. She's the face and you're supposed to want her to win. She's doing her job since you feel bad for her.

2006: Stalking Trish Stratus and eventually beating her at Wrestlemania.

2009-2010: Crying at being called fat.

BULLSHIT.

Not everyone remains on top forever. The divas tend to have shorter careers than the guys, and Mickie's might be ending. This feud would be a good time for her to pass the torch to Michelle or Beth if Mickie really is leaving soon. Rumor or not.

First of all, she is not fat. Let's throw that out of the way right now. Cedric the Entertainer, he's fat. Samoa Joe, he's fat. Hell, I'M fat compared to her! And the worst I have is a gut. The idea of calling Mickie James fat just because her ribs aren't visible through her skin is ludicrous.

Agreed. However, since Michelle's comments bother you AND you feel bad for Mickie then it means BOTH of them are doing their job fantastically because you're not the only upset one out there, I have noticed it among several others.

Second, it makes no sense to have her be insulted by being called fat. Out of all the things that could've been used as an insult to her, that is the weakest and most-used insult I can think of. Saying that Mickie can't sing would be more plausible. And, I have to reiterate, because this is important, THIS CAUSED HER TO CRY. I'm sorry, but I can't get over that. I get that Vince McMahon thinks that if it happened more than 3-4 months ago that fans forget it ever happened, but if you payed attention to James' character from even a year ago, she was the last person to have CRIED AT BEING CALLED FAT. She was, and in many ways, still is, the most popular diva on the roster, and one of the most athletically gifted as well. She was confident, strong-willed, and very likable. This does not fit in with that character at all.

Yes it does fit with her character. She is the top face, you're supposed to want her to win. Michelle making her cry was kayfabe'd for the most part. I'm sure it hurts her in real life, but she's not fat she is gorgeous and I bet she knows it. This is just a storyline meant to get her more fans and to get Michelle more hated. It's working.

OK, so it makes Michelle look like a high-school bitch. Fine. It makes Layla look like a stupid high-school bitch for following her. Fine. But the way they're going about this is just burying Mickie James. I get that the fans should be patient and wait and see what happens, but honestly, James has gotten buried in this feud. Yes, there have been one or two moments where she seems to be making a comeback, but in between beat-downs from Team LayCool (as they put it), as well as an attack from Beth Phoenix, and THE CRYING, and what's going to happen tonight (if you've read the spoilers, you know), she hasn't shown any promise that she's going to win this Sunday.

Mickie doesn't HAVE to win. Yeah, I said it and I know you'll probably disagree. Look, Michelle has more to gain from winning this feud than Mickie does. Mickie had her time on the top of the division in 2006-2007. After that she got a bit sloppy in the ring and somehow maintained her popularity because of the epic feud with Trish. Michelle however has only just recently reached the top of the divas as the main heel. Her winning this feud solidifies her status as the top heel. Remember the heat that Punk got for "getting rid of Hardy"? Same thing can happen here. If Mickie does leave then she can pass the torch to Michelle, who then uses the results of this feud (if she wins it) to keep getting heel heat.

All I can say is that if she really is leaving, after what's happened here, I can't blame her.

If she's leaving then it's to begin a music career, it has nothing to do with the Piggy James angle. This angle is kayfabe'd.

I'd be willing to debate this further if you still disagree.

 

[ZeroVX]

This is the major problem. Fans complain about how the divas division is terrible, then you are given the best angle the girls have had in 4 years, and still people complain. Not necessarily you, I meant a lot of people.

I fail to see how this is a good angle, let alone the best one in 4 years. This is an angle better suited for the weaker divas, like Layla and Maria or something, not the two best divas on the brand.

How is this damaging Mickie's character? She is sticking up for other nice girls who have been treated bad by the mean girls. If anything this feud is bringing her further up in terms of how good of a character she has. Trish did pass the torch to Mickie, but she wasn't able to save a dying division. I wouldn't call her the female John Cena though.... Mickie is not the face of womens' wrestling. Trish was back when she was still around, so if anyone was the female John Cena it was Trish.

If she was sticking up for girls who have been bullied like this, then she wouldn't have cried in the ring. She would've just brushed the comments off. Her reaction just shows that she's equally vulnerable to being bullied as the people she's trying to defend. You may say that makes her relatable, but when you're being bullied, you want someone to look up to, not someone to relate to. And, again, considering how she's been treated in this feud, she's not been the prime role model.

And I probably should've clarified that she's the female John Cena TODAY. Obviously when Stratus was around, it was her.

That's to get heel heat for Michelle. You're SUPPOSED to be upset at Michelle's character. She's doing her job since this obviously bugs you. As for rumors on Mickie leaving, that's a green light for her to pass the torch. Michelle can get more heel heat by bragging about "scaring away Piggy James" or something, and will continue to improve as the top heel diva.

I get that it's supposed to give Michelle heat. But when I'm getting pissed off at the people who wrote this angle and not at Michelle, the whole point fails.

Trish Stratus was allowed to leave with her head high. She even won the title one last time before she left. Lillian Garcia was allowed to leave peacefully. You mean to tell me Mickie doesn't deserve to leave with some dignity left?

That's to get fan support and sympathy. She's the face and you're supposed to want her to win. She's doing her job since you feel bad for her.

Yes, I do feel bad for her. But not because she was called fat. I feel bad for her because the geniuses backstage think she's leaving, and need to ruin her credibility before she does.

Not everyone remains on top forever. The divas tend to have shorter careers than the guys, and Mickie's might be ending. This feud would be a good time for her to pass the torch to Michelle or Beth if Mickie really is leaving soon. Rumor or not.

OK, fine. I have no problem with Mickie passing the torch to someone who deserves it. I have no problem with her losing her last match. I have a problem with her taking part in stupid angles like this that ruin any credibility she had, and then by losing, she winds up becoming a total joke.

Agreed. However, since Michelle's comments bother you AND you feel bad for Mickie then it means BOTH of them are doing their job fantastically because you're not the only upset one out there, I have noticed it among several others.

Yes, the comments bother me, but for the wrong reasons. I'm not pissed at Michelle for saying them, I'm not pissed at Mickie for reacting to them in the way she did. I'm pissed at the idiots who told them to do that.

Yes it does fit with her character. She is the top face, you're supposed to want her to win. Michelle making her cry was kayfabe'd for the most part. I'm sure it hurts her in real life, but she's not fat she is gorgeous and I bet she knows it. This is just a storyline meant to get her more fans and to get Michelle more hated. It's working.

Yes, she is the top face, and yes, I want her to win. But this is the wrong way of garnering sympathy. If she was just being attacked by LayCool week after week, without the comments floating about, it would be slightly better. Not by much, but at least she'd still have some shreds of dignity left.

Mickie doesn't HAVE to win. Yeah, I said it and I know you'll probably disagree. Look, Michelle has more to gain from winning this feud than Mickie does. Mickie had her time on the top of the division in 2006-2007. After that she got a bit sloppy in the ring and somehow maintained her popularity because of the epic feud with Trish. Michelle however has only just recently reached the top of the divas as the main heel. Her winning this feud solidifies her status as the top heel. Remember the heat that Punk got for "getting rid of Hardy"? Same thing can happen here. If Mickie does leave then she can pass the torch to Michelle, who then uses the results of this feud (if she wins it) to keep getting heel heat.

I can see the similarities between the Punk/Hardy feud and the Michelle/Mickie feud. Difference being, though, is that Hardy accepted what was being thrown at him and dealt with it. He didn't cry in the middle of the ring because Punk called him a drug addict. That would just sound stupid and ruin any credibility the feud had. And after Hardy lost, he was still allowed to leave with some form of respect still attached to him. And, you'll notice, Hardy didn't get completely buried in the feud, and actually beat Punk more than once. This isn't what happened with Michelle and Mickie.

If she's leaving then it's to begin a music career, it has nothing to do with the Piggy James angle. This angle is kayfabe'd.

I'd be willing to debate this further if you still disagree.

Yes, the angle is kayfabe. But, the truth is, before this started, I didn't believe the rumours that Mickie was leaving. Now, I'm willing to bet this just pushes her out the door even sooner.

 

[Sean Valjean]

I agree with the OP. While I was a little iffy about this angle when it began, it really has turned into the best divas feud I've seen in quite some time, controversial or not. Michelle and Layla have the mean girl role down to a tee and Mickie promos have been some of her best ever. I haven't been this interested in her since her feud with Trish. Not to mention the wild card that is Beth Phoenix; one week she helps James, the next she's with Michelle. How will she play into all of this?

I don't understand why some people are saying this hurts Mickie's character. So just because she cries, she's ruined? Mickie's been portrayed as a strong person, but people can only take so much. Having her breakdown a bit makes her more human and gives her more depth; she'd be boring if nothing fazed her and just went after Michelle. This gives girls someone to relate to, not to mention giving her a ton of sympathy and Michelle a lot of heat.

So while the angle may offend some, I think it's been a success overall. I seriously can't wait for their title match at the Rumble and I haven't felt that way about a diva's match in a while.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I fail to see how this is a good angle, let alone the best one in 4 years. This is an angle better suited for the weaker divas, like Layla and Maria or something, not the two best divas on the brand.

It's a good angle because fans care about it. Layla and Maria would have the audiences falling asleep. No one cares about either one of them. Well.... ok a few people. Many people care about Mickie and Michelle. If the two best divas shouldn't be in what's the best story in 4 years then I'd be interested in knowing what you would suggest they do instead?

If she was sticking up for girls who have been bullied like this, then she wouldn't have cried in the ring. She would've just brushed the comments off. Her reaction just shows that she's equally vulnerable to being bullied as the people she's trying to defend. You may say that makes her relatable, but when you're being bullied, you want someone to look up to, not someone to relate to. And, again, considering how she's been treated in this feud, she's not been the prime role model.

Her crying shows that her character is a human being, and the girls who have been teased can relate to that. Heck, I'm a guy and I can relate to being hurt by teasing because of things from back when I was younger. The young girls can still look up to her and think "it happened to Mickie James, I can say things back and stand up for myself like she did". Even if Mickie doesn't win in the end, it still gives them a role model because she stood up for herself.

And I probably should've clarified that she's the female John Cena TODAY. Obviously when Stratus was around, it was her.

Alright, good point. This time I agree.

I get that it's supposed to give Michelle heat. But when I'm getting pissed off at the people who wrote this angle and not at Michelle, the whole point fails.

Another good point. However a lot of fans legitimately hate Michelle's character and feel sorry for Mickie's.... so the "idiots" who wrote this angle did their job.

Trish Stratus was allowed to leave with her head high. She even won the title one last time before she left. Lillian Garcia was allowed to leave peacefully. You mean to tell me Mickie doesn't deserve to leave with some dignity left?

Absolutely. If I worked for WWE then I would be in favor of letting Mickie leave after a great victory so she finishes strong. Unfortunately though I don't work for WWE's creative team. Those who actually do, will probably have Mickie put Michelle over.

Yes, I do feel bad for her. But not because she was called fat. I feel bad for her because the geniuses backstage think she's leaving, and need to ruin her credibility before she does.

No, they probably just want to find ways to give Michelle heat and give Mickie a good angle all at once. They don't have much of a reason to ruin her credibility, besides she's a multi-time champion so she has plenty of credibility.

OK, fine. I have no problem with Mickie passing the torch to someone who deserves it. I have no problem with her losing her last match. I have a problem with her taking part in stupid angles like this that ruin any credibility she had, and then by losing, she winds up becoming a total joke.

Alright, I gotcha. Could you please explain how being involved in this angle messes up her credibility? You might be onto something, but at the moment I disagree.

Yes, the comments bother me, but for the wrong reasons. I'm not pissed at Michelle for saying them, I'm not pissed at Mickie for reacting to them in the way she did. I'm pissed at the idiots who told them to do that.

Those "idiots" did their job though because the fans haven't cared about an angle as much as this one since Trish left 4 years ago. Plus many of those fans legitimately feel sorry for Mickie AND hate Michelle's character.

Yes, she is the top face, and yes, I want her to win. But this is the wrong way of garnering sympathy. If she was just being attacked by LayCool week after week, without the comments floating about, it would be slightly better. Not by much, but at least she'd still have some shreds of dignity left.

You're still proving my point though about fan sympathy. You feel bad for Mickie and WWE wants you to.

I can see the similarities between the Punk/Hardy feud and the Michelle/Mickie feud. Difference being, though, is that Hardy accepted what was being thrown at him and dealt with it. He didn't cry in the middle of the ring because Punk called him a drug addict. That would just sound stupid and ruin any credibility the feud had. And after Hardy lost, he was still allowed to leave with some form of respect still attached to him. And, you'll notice, Hardy didn't get completely buried in the feud, and actually beat Punk more than once. This isn't what happened with Michelle and Mickie.

Hardy didn't cry, no.... but Hardy's a guy and Mickie's a girl. Most guys when insulted either insult back or start a fight, many girls when insulted will cry. That's a little sexist, but it's true, especially for kids to be able to relate to, and WWE is marketing towards kids with the PG product. The rest of your argument in that quote is valid though and a good point.

Yes, the angle is kayfabe. But, the truth is, before this started, I didn't believe the rumours that Mickie was leaving. Now, I'm willing to bet this just pushes her out the door even sooner.

Whether Mickie leaves or not, Michelle has more to gain from winning this feud, and it was a great move by creative to make this feud happen because it has fulfilled exactly what it set out to do. Heat for Michelle, support for Mickie.... and best of all.... fans actually are generating a lot of interest in a DIVAS FEUD. Mickie's taking one for the team by letting the feud go as long as it did, and Michelle has done a fantastic job in her role as well because thanks to this feud she's the best heel since Lita.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Wait, people like this? Wait again, people like this yet the Little Peoples Court segment was shat all over? At least that was entertaining, who finds a woman, who IS NOT fat, wearing a pig nose and fat suit entertaining? Really now, there are people out there who like this? It was the worst part of Smackdown, I could hrdly watch from how stupid it was. Sure, this is the way to give diva's credibility.

 

[ZeroVX]

It's a good angle because fans care about it. Layla and Maria would have the audiences falling asleep. No one cares about either one of them. Well.... ok a few people. Many people care about Mickie and Michelle. If the two best divas shouldn't be in what's the best story in 4 years then I'd be interested in knowing what you would suggest they do instead?

If they're going to have Michelle insult Mickie, they could've at least used an insult that might actually hurt. Like I said, being called fat has to be the weakest excuse for an insult there is. Anything else could've been used.

Her crying shows that her character is a human being, and the girls who have been teased can relate to that. Heck, I'm a guy and I can relate to being hurt by teasing because of things from back when I was younger. The young girls can still look up to her and think "it happened to Mickie James, I can say things back and stand up for myself like she did". Even if Mickie doesn't win in the end, it still gives them a role model because she stood up for herself.

If they followed what happened in this exactly, then they wouldn't stand up for themselves, because they'd just get beat up like Mickie has week in and week out.

Another good point. However a lot of fans legitimately hate Michelle's character and feel sorry for Mickie's.... so the "idiots" who wrote this angle did their job.

And I'm willing to bet an equal amount of people find Michelle more annoying than mean, and wonder why Mickie is losing to her so much.

Absolutely. If I worked for WWE then I would be in favor of letting Mickie leave after a great victory so she finishes strong. Unfortunately though I don't work for WWE's creative team. Those who actually do, will probably have Mickie put Michelle over.

And again, I have no issue with that, as long as it's done right. This hasn't been done right.

No, they probably just want to find ways to give Michelle heat and give Mickie a good angle all at once. They don't have much of a reason to ruin her credibility, besides she's a multi-time champion so she has plenty of credibility.

Sure they do. At least, Vince has a good reason, according to him anyway: She's leaving. Look at history and you'll see that Vince rarely lets anyone leave without being humiliated first. Just look at Lita.

Alright, I gotcha. Could you please explain how being involved in this angle messes up her credibility? You might be onto something, but at the moment I disagree.

Well, besides the whole "crying over being called fat" thing that I've already talked about, it's her treatment in the terms of the feud itself. If you want any feud to be successful, you need to perpetrate the belief that either side could win. Outside of one instance where Mickie James stood up for herself, she's been buried in this feud. First the insults came, followed by her crying. Then the next week she stood up for herself, only to be beaten down by LayCool and have Maria, of all people, save her. Maria then fights Beth Phoenix once and disappears all over again, while Mickie gets buried some more. Then Beth Phoenix attacks Mickie after she gets beat down by LayCool again. The next week, Beth gets saved by Mickie, but rather than have Mickie go after LayCool, the source of her problems, she attacks Beth. This leads to a match between them the next week, which LayCool interfere in and Beth Phoenix leaves, so Mickie gets beat down AGAIN. And last night, she didn't even show up. Which left Michelle and Layla to act like total idiots with a fat suit. There's a fine line between sympathy and pity, and this feud isn't properly creating the former.

Those "idiots" did their job though because the fans haven't cared about an angle as much as this one since Trish left 4 years ago. Plus many of those fans legitimately feel sorry for Mickie AND hate Michelle's character.

They didn't do their job. Their job was to create an angle that would make people tune in more often and drive up revenue. It hasn't. There's a good heat, and a bad heat. The good heat makes you want to keep watching to see the face get their revenge. The bad heat makes you want to stop watching because the whole thing is stupid. This angle has created the bad kind of heat.

You're still proving my point though about fan sympathy. You feel bad for Mickie and WWE wants you to.

Again, difference between sympathy and pity, and I feel bad for the wrong reasons.

Hardy didn't cry, no.... but Hardy's a guy and Mickie's a girl. Most guys when insulted either insult back or start a fight, many girls when insulted will cry. That's a little sexist, but it's true, especially for kids to be able to relate to, and WWE is marketing towards kids with the PG product. The rest of your argument in that quote is valid though and a good point.

That's a lame excuse. If WWE wanted to truly market this properly, they would have Mickie fight back properly. That way, they would prove that anyone should fight back against bullies. Sexism is the wrong thing to promote, especially to kids.

Whether Mickie leaves or not, Michelle has more to gain from winning this feud, and it was a great move by creative to make this feud happen because it has fulfilled exactly what it set out to do. Heat for Michelle, support for Mickie.... and best of all.... fans actually are generating a lot of interest in a DIVAS FEUD. Mickie's taking one for the team by letting the feud go as long as it did, and Michelle has done a fantastic job in her role as well because thanks to this feud she's the best heel since Lita.

I agree that Michelle's a good heel. I wouldn't call her the best heel since Lita, but at least the best heel diva today. But, again, I feel this feud has generated the wrong kind of heat, and I don't think fans are as interested in this feud as you say they are.

 

[Remix]

Becca, It's not so much that Layla in a fat suit is entertaining (although Matt Striker on commentary sold it for me) its that the angle itself is very, very good. The feud between McCool and Mickie is good because they're fighting for a reason (not just for the title, it's personal too), and its evoked an emotional response from the audience (i.e. they care about it, the characters involved and its outcome). Which does indeed make it a great creative decision.

And what way would you give the Divas credibility Becca, other than giving them time on the show where they actually have a point? or is it just that the fat suit idea was bad, not the actual angle?

 

[Rebecca]

The angle seemed bleak at first, and now it's one, if not the best thing that has been given to the women's division in years. The Mickie/Michelle angle isn't just a typical "me want title" feud, it's elaborate and unlike every other diva feud, it's been drawn out. This weeks smackdown segment albeit was boring, but Mickie not being there was good, it shows she's selling the emotional impact Michelle made on her last week. Could the segment have been done better? Definitely, but at this point I'm really just hyped about the epic match we'll be getting Sunday.

The angle itself was done so McCool could finally get over as a heel. She failed as a face, failed at getting over as a heel when feuding with Maria, Eve and even Melina, now it's Mickie's turn - and Mickie has done what no other diva could do, put Michelle over as a heel, which has enabled her to get a heat reaction from the crowd, as well as a few "you suck" chants. The storyline isn't just about just Mickie being "fat" either, it's about Michelle and Layla being the stuck up girls who bring everyone else down who aren't like them (remember them poking fun at Maria for being thin?), we all know Mickie James isn't fat, we all know she isn't a pig, but it's two heels using bully tatics to make everyone think less of themselves to get a reaction, and unlike other diva feuds, this one has got a response from the crowd.

For what it's worth, this feud obviously does have flaws, it's no Trish/Mickie but it's something, it's something the womens division has needed for a long time - a serious, emotional feud which leads up to a good, solid, title match. The feud isn't "creative", but it's decent. Honestly would you rather see random tag matches week in-week out for the smackdown divas? I wouldn't. I just hope the build over the last few months means we get a divas PPV match which is longer than 8 minutes.

 

[Stratusfaction_100%]

everyone is making a big deal about "Piggie James" so what if you are feeling bad or happy or anything towards this story. that means that the creative team are doing they're jobs right you feel as if you are really getting involved in the storyline and with the characters there has been diva stories like this before. so whats the problem now like when trish was feuding with molly holly and trish said that molly had a huge ass !! so what really is the difference????

stop complaining about it and enjoy it cause we probably wont get another storyline like this in a while . I myself believe that mickie will get her revenge at the rumble or soon after ! Goo MICKIE JAMES !!!!!!!

 

[LitasRevenge79]

I myself an a pretty curvy woman. My husband appreciates a normal sized woman. I think last nites Smackdown where layla dressed up in a fatsuit was pretty much the nail in the coffin for this. Especially since the audience did not even seem to care anymore one way or the other. Gives me hope that WWE can see the audience is smarter than they give them credit for. Especially since Layla is not all that skinny herself, she isn't much different in size than Mickie, and Michelle could use a couple meals herself. I think as good/real a story this is....it is really starting to wear out its welcome with people. <--- what my thought is on this storyline, and hopes it goes under soon.

I think if they are wanting to be family friendly, you can only push the 'vanity' thing so far. considering they took the bra/panty matches out, the no blood thing anymore. Pretty soon they'll have a bunch of bulimia-anorexic teenage girls on their hands. If you look at the divas they have on WWE now, the majority of them are all curvier shapes. Bellas, Jillian, Gail Kim, Mickie, Katie Lea, Beth, Rosa, Tiffany, Alicia.. Then you have the skinnie minnies... Michelle, Kelly, Maria, Maryse. Those 4 are in the minority actually.

 

[Schizophrenic]

I dont care for this angle because of my emotional attraction to it. My girlfriend is Mickie's exact build and I find it sexy. When they started this she started questioning her weight and her looks. Im not looking for sympathy I have a point. If that happens to a 21 year old woman who never thought about her weight before what is it doing to young girls who are still impressionable? What message is that sending. Out of the months of this feud going on, how many times has Mickie or Beth (who is also a "bigger" girl) get hte upper hand and come off looking good? Maybe 3 times? Yeah not really helping. And the fat suit was just so stupid that it made the feud lose all sense of importance. I enjoy Mickie and Beth's work. Michelle is getting better (for gods sake get her off the mic) but this has gone on for too long and needs to either come to the conclussion or just fade away without any other mention.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Becca, It's not so much that Layla in a fat suit is entertaining (although Matt Striker on commentary sold it for me) its that the angle itself is very, very good. The feud between McCool and Mickie is good because they're fighting for a reason (not just for the title, it's personal too), and its evoked an emotional response from the audience (i.e. they care about it, the characters involved and its outcome). Which does indeed make it a great creative decision.

And what way would you give the Divas credibility Becca, other than giving them time on the show where they actually have a point? or is it just that the fat suit idea was bad, not the actual angle?

The fat suit was a horrible idea. I mean, I cringed watching it and then stopped. I haven't given too much thought to the angle as a whole, because the divas are so bland for the most part. But that fat suit thing has definitely ruined it for me, there was just no point. It made everything seem cheap and stupid - like this wasn't an angle with 'emotions', it was just a cheap way to get a laugh for a second, there wasn't quality behind the fat-suit.

Regarding how I'd give the divas credibility, it'd be difficult with their current role in the WWE. Until their role is something more than 'Give the male fans something good to look at' they'll never be a really credible division in my opinion. Now, give them actual storylines, mic time, and take the size 0, silicone enhanced breasts out of the job requirements and we may have credibility.

 

[Maestro48239]

The fat suit was a horrible idea. I mean, I cringed watching it and then stopped. I haven't given too much thought to the angle as a whole, because the divas are so bland for the most part. But that fat suit thing has definitely ruined it for me, there was just no point. It made everything seem cheap and stupid - like this wasn't an angle with 'emotions', it was just a cheap way to get a laugh for a second, there wasn't quality behind the fat-suit.

Regarding how I'd give the divas credibility, it'd be difficult with their current role in the WWE. Until their role is something more than 'Give the male fans something good to look at' they'll never be a really credible division in my opinion. Now, give them actual storylines, mic time, and take the size 0, silicone enhanced breasts out of the job requirements and we may have credibility.

I totally agree, but when you think about it, the WWE was always famous for silly shit like that. how many times did you see the heel or face cutting the promo, and call out his arch-enemy and then you see a midget running out dressed as such. ridiculous!!!!!!

 

[X]

Lol what fucking show are some of you watching? You think the fans give two shits about this feud? Do me a favor and send me whatever it is you're smoking on, because it must be some really good shit for you to start tripping out like that. Getting barely crickets for each and every segment is not called "giving the fans a reason to care", and it's actually kind of sad how badly some of you wish these divas were over. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but no one gives a fuck about ths feud, the "Diva's Title", or any other part of this entire angle, just as they don't give a fuck about any of the divas. Feel free to wake up and join reality guys.

 

[krispix]

I have to admit, I didn't like the angle at first. It was straight up mean. When they did it to Molly Holly, she admitted that she was hurt by it, so I worried the angle was going to go the same route.

But then that golden promo happened two Smackdowns ago, where both Mickie and Maria fought back. WWE finally gave these Divas the opportunity to really work with something significant, and the girls took it and ran. It's an angle fans actually CARE ABOUT. People want to see Mickie beat the shit out of Michelle.

This angle also did developed for these Divas that rarely even happens for the male wrestlers - character depth. We saw Mickie's weak, vulnerable side and acknowledged that every confident woman can be broken down. We saw Maria go from a ditz trying to be smart to an assertive, stand-up woman. We saw Michelle have some actual personality (though she took three steps back with this week's Smackdown promo). And we got to see Layla really shine as the comedic sidekick. I don't think the angle would have worked as well without Layla compensating for Michelle's Keanu Reeves woodenness.

I happy to say that WWE more than exceeded my expectations with this storyline, and the Piggy James angle was a fantastic decision. I'm glad the women involved had enough faith to go through with it, and that creative had faith in these divas.

 

[X]

I have to admit, I didn't like the angle at first. It was straight up mean. When they did it to Molly Holly, she admitted that she was hurt by it, so I worried the angle was going to go the same route.

But then that golden promo happened two Smackdowns ago, where both Mickie and Maria fought back. WWE finally gave these Divas the opportunity to really work with something significant, and the girls took it and ran. It's an angle fans actually CARE ABOUT. People want to see Mickie beat the shit out of Michelle.

This angle also did developed for these Divas that rarely even happens for the male wrestlers - character depth. We saw Mickie's weak, vulnerable side and acknowledged that every confident woman can be broken down. We saw Maria go from a ditz trying to be smart to an assertive, stand-up woman. We saw Michelle have some actual personality (though she took three steps back with this week's Smackdown promo). And we got to see Layla really shine as the comedic sidekick. I don't think the angle would have worked as well without Layla compensating for Michelle's Keanu Reeves woodenness.

I happy to say that WWE more than exceeded my expectations with this storyline, and the Piggy James angle was a fantastic decision. I'm glad the women involved had enough faith to go through with it, and that creative had faith in these divas.

...What?! Again, what freaking show are you people watching?! Who cares about this? What fans? Every single Mickie James/Layla/McCool segment has been met with the exact same response -- DEAD silence and crickets chirping because no one fucking cares whatsoever.

I'm really baffled here. Perhaps modern fans are just so out of touch with what "being over" actually is that they somehow think this angle is getting over, when the truth is nobody fucking cares even slightly, and no one is going to care tomorrow at the Rumble either.

Good lord, what planet are you people living on?

 

[krispix]

...What?! Again, what freaking show are you people watching?! Who cares about this? What fans? Every single Mickie James/Layla/McCool segment has been met with the exact same response -- DEAD silence and crickets chirping because no one fucking cares whatsoever.

I'm really baffled here. Perhaps modern fans are just so out of touch with what "being over" actually is that they somehow think this angle is getting over, when the truth is nobody fucking cares even slightly, and no one is going to care tomorrow at the Rumble either.

Good lord, what planet are you people living on?

Are you kidding me? Did you not see or hear the crowd response during the McCool/James food segment two weeks ago? I did not hear dead silence. I heard huge pops for Mickie, bigger pops than I've heard for the Divas division for several years.

Maybe it's not the same response as anything Trish, Lita, Molly, Ivory, Sable, Victoria, or any of the predecessor Divas received, but it's simply UNFAIR to compare the two generations, because you can't compare the male wrestlers' popularity today with that back then either.

People who are fans of the Divas division and don't deem their segments as pissbreaks are excited for this angle. I know I am, and it's been a long time since I didn't feel the need to mute a Divas segment while watching wrestling.

 

[X]

Are you kidding me? Did you not see or hear the crowd response during the McCool/James food segment two weeks ago? I did not hear dead silence. I heard huge pops for Mickie, bigger pops than I've heard for the Divas division for several years.

Really? Would love to see the video of that, because I watch Smackdown every week and don't recall anything other than a minor pop at best. The kind of pop that Mickie ALWAYS gets because she's the only diva even slightly over.

Maybe it's not the same response as anything Trish, Lita, Molly, Ivory, Sable, Victoria, or any of the predecessor Divas received, but it's simply UNFAIR to compare the two generations, because you can't compare the male wrestlers' popularity today with that back then either.

I'm not comparing them at all. You are, not me. But being over requires more than 50 people in a crowd of 18,000 to cheer for you. The fans don't care about this, just as they never care about any of the diva storylines.

People who are fans of the Divas division and don't deem their segments as pissbreaks are excited for this angle. I know I am, and it's been a long time since I didn't feel the need to mute a Divas segment while watching wrestling.

A) Who's a fan of the divas, and why would anyone be? It's the saddest joke of a division ever, 99% of them are absolutely ATROCIOUS workers, shit promo-cutters, and just generally terrible at everything that is required of a wrestler. The only reason they have jobs is because of their looks.

B) Again, who are these people that suddenly care now? Not seeing any. Nobody gives a shit about the divas. Nobody. The only reason anyone ever cheers for them is because of their looks. That's literally it.