Impact 1 Raw 0

Who won the first round

  • TNA Impact

  • WWE Raw


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First off, Im not a TNA mark screw you. I enjoy all wrestling and if WWe had put on a better show I'd be praising them but they didn't entertain me. Simple as that. And just like Jack you seem to think that if it doesn't entertain you then it's the shitty show in general and no one should like it. That my friend makes you the mark.


The promo was boring after Taker gave his speech. After that it was just there. And you are right I don't know who will win and that's why I will watch WrestleMania. But that doesn't mean I have to sit and listen to every little thing they are gonna say. It's all been said before and honestly the build up is nowhere near as good and exciting as last year. Are you also gonna tell me that if you don't know who the face/heel is in the WWE stuff it's ok but if TNA does it it's shotty booking? Demsond Wofle was not really known as a face or a heel until he attacked Hogan last week. Was that bad booking? No. What about Eric? We don't know if Bischoff if good or bad. Is that crap booking? No it's intrigue.


I'd rather have it peak early then too late and that's the issue with Legacy. It's been too long to no longer does someone watch and think "hit him Ted just knock his block off". Now when I watch wrestling with people they just turn their back and talk to others because it wasn't going to happen and now they have two weeks to put their match together and the build up will be what? Randy challenges them to a three way dance and they accept? I know they have hatred but it's not read hot like it was several months back. Their match last night was great however.


Again..screw you not a TNA smark and you just look ridiculous by calling me that time and time again. And yes, Mark Henry, Vladimir Kozlov and Jack Swagger are jobbers. Jack is the only one who has talent in those three and that's what he is doing. Losing. I'm glad he's in MITB and hopefully he'll have a good showing but Mark Henry and Kozlov couldn't scare a field mouse. And I am sure you are gonna claim that the guys TNA brought in from WWE are jobbers too right? Well is Burke one? You were probably one of the people praising him when he was in WWE. Hardy? One of the biggest stars of the last three years. Get off your high horse of "bigger is better" cause trust me, ROH is whooping the shit out of WWE in terms of in ring ability and characters. WWE's guys are all the same, guys in tights. ROH & TNA have at least characters.


And what exactly is the guest host thing for again? Yeah that's what I thought.


Did I say last week's impact was great? No. But did I enjoy it? Yes therefore it was good. Plus TNA has me excited again about wrestling. I am glad when Mondays come around now because I get to watch TNA. I used to be happy about Mondays because I could watch Castle.

And just because you want something to be bad really really really badly, doesn't make it so. Again you and Hammer are both under the impression that if you don't like it then anyone who does is wrong, and you know what that's called? Communisim. Welcome red friends! Deal with it. Other people have other tastes. I provide reasons why and if someone can give me reasons in rebuttle, great but if they can't they come off as foolish. If you could have given me reasons you thought it was bad then I would have been fine with that and been willing to do the whole point/counterpoint thing but you insted resorted to calling me a mark, a smark taking shot after shot at TNA with no basis for your attacks.

First of all, let me apologize for the whole "TNA smark" comment which appears, for some unknown reason, to have really hit a nerve with you. I do not intend this in a derogatory fashion at all, I really don't, I use this expression all the time and no one has ever appeared to be offended by it in the past. I mean this to suggest you're a passionate fan of the product, albeit with a little bit of a one track mind and apparently a little defensive about it. No offense intended. Honestly.

I have never said that TNA was putting out a shitty show. I have said they're nowhere's close to WWE and likely never will be and I stand by that assessment. Just the low budget appearance of the Impact Zone, not to mention the product itself, makes it look second place. I have said that they will not be able to keep the quality of the show in future weeks up to the status of last week, and they won't. The last two months proved that.

I enjoyed iMPACT last night, I really did. As a WWE "mark" myself, I found myself checking out TNA and staying there longer than I would have anticipated. I hope TNA succeeds, not instead of the WWE, but in addition to it. I would like to see both organizations flourish so I could watch both. But I truly believe if TNA continues to"attack" WWE and try to surpass it, they'll ultimately fail and won't survive.

Oh, and by the way, Desmond Wolfe has ckearly been a heel since day one. And I'm not a Communist either.
 
Dude please get a new speech. I've seen you pimp that blow their load/internet darling thing for the last few days. If it doesn't interest you that's fine. 'm not really talking about YOU as my example when I say this and if you thought I did I apologize, but it's gettign quite old when people just think "Hogan, Biscoff, not WWE...it's gonna suck" and deny that there are people on here that do that. Yes it happens vice verca but how many times have I had to read the WrestleZone poles where someone just goes "it's TNA so it's gonna suck! 1 Star"? People are showing their immaturity by doing that so why should I have to listen to their point of view when they have none?

A lot of people think TNA blew their load in one night on January 4th, it's not just me. Whether or not some of those others are WWE loyalists that don't want to give TNA a chance or they just weren't impressed by TNA overall is on them. For me, if TNA puts on a better product featuring wrestlers I want to see, I've got no problem changing the channel at all. I did it quite a few times back when WCW and the WWF were competing. However, I do believe that there are some that are so desperate for competition that they hype TNA out to be much better than it actually is. I've watched iMPACT! for about three and a half years and I'm comfortable with my position that the WWE puts on an overall better product. I'm well aware that there are those that rundown TNA without giving it a chance. It's unfortunate that people do that. Giving fans options is a good thing as it means more potential money for wrestlers and means that creative can't afford to be as lazy.

I understand that TNA has not been able to keep the audience that they had on January 4th, and hopefully they try to fix that and I'm hopefull they will , but you slipped into the trap that most WWE Die Hards go back to. Ratings. We are talking about a better show and it always ends up becoming about ratings when in reality ratings don't say what was the better show. It showed what some people prefer. Not TNA's fault more fans prefer watered down WWE.

I wouldn't worry about ratings so much under other circumstances. TNA wanted to go to war with the WWE. TNA wants to compete with the WWE so yes, in the long run, ratings do matter. TNA wants to be the #1 wrestling company in the world and that's fine. But that means that they're going to have to attract more than the 1.5 million people that watch them on average, a large percentage of which is made up of by internet smarks. Anyone can debate as to which company is better, who has the better wrestlers and so on and so forth. That's all well and good but its kind of moot since there is no definitive answer, only opinions. WWE Raw averages over 3.5 times the audience of iMPACT! and that's something TNA has to conquer. Also you've gone back to the trap that most TNA Die Hards go to. Bringing up the whole "watered down" argument. As I said earlier, I've read so much about TNA being more "adult" and geared more towards "more mature audiences". Now, if anything is being pimped out, it's that shit. I've been reading that ever since I started posting on this forum. It's going to take more than a few bleeped out four letter words to impress me. TNA had the chance to do something pretty innovative with Orlando Jordan a little while back and, along with the honchos at Spike, decided not to go through with it. I hear all this stuff about TNA wanting to push the envelope but it's just lip service. When push comes to shove, when the opportunity comes along for TNA and Spike to do something a little more controversial than showing some hot scantily clad women and a few four letter words tossed out now and again, they fold.
 
I don't really think "blowing their load" is a proper phrase here. If they blew their load on 1/4, how could they have "blown their load" again last night. The phrase in and of itself means they threw everything they had...you can't do that twice in such a short period of time. Seems to indicate to me that TNA has a lot up their sleeves, and has a lot to throw out there. Who's to say they won't throw more? Bill Goldberg is still out there. Stuff like that. There's all kinds of stuff to do, it doesn't have to be "surprise!" every show. It just has to be entertaining. I was vey entertained by TNA last night, and that's enough for me to give it a second chance.
 
Dude please get a new speech. I've seen you pimp that blow their load/internet darling thing for the last few days. If it doesn't interest you that's fine. I'm not really talking about YOU as my example when I say this and if you thought I did I apologize, but it's gettign quite old when people just think "Hogan, Biscoff, not WWE...it's gonna suck" and deny that there are people on here that do that. Yes it happens vice verca but how many times have I had to read the WrestleZone poles where someone just goes "it's TNA so it's gonna suck! 1 Star"? People are showing their immaturity by doing that so why should I have to listen to their point of view when they have none?


I understand that TNA has not been able to keep the audience that they had on January 4th, and hopefully they try to fix that and I'm hopefull they will , but you slipped into the trap that most WWE Die Hards go back to. Ratings. We are talking about a better show and it always ends up becoming about ratings when in reality ratings don't say what was the better show. It showed what some people prefer. Not TNA's fault more fans prefer watered down WWE.

I still don't know how you can say that the Anderson/Angle feud isn't fresh when it's been going on for what? 3 weeks? How is that not still fresh? It's entertaining and a feud between two guys who have wrestled one time and started their rivalry. Can we say the same about Legacy?

Your dismissive comments about the significance of ratings is almost laughable, and is the battle cry of the defeated, the ultimate showcase of the lack of reality and realism in the average TNA sm.. oops fan.

Of course ratings matter. It's what determines success versus failure, more so than a bunch of guys like ourselves debating on some internet forum. Rating mean success and ratings mean money. More money improves the product, breeding even more success, and the cycle continues.

I remember the real Monday Night War between WWF and WCW. And talk to any WCW who celebrates the fact that WCW was winning the war for a while, and what will every one of them, to a man, refer to: that WCW was beating WWF in the ratings for 82 consecutive weeks. In other words, WCW was successful rather than WWF because it won the ratings war for nearly 2 years, but when WWE wins the ratings war against TNA, ratings suddenly don't matter. Inconsistent and illogical.

And just because Flair and Hogan bleed all over the arena like they always have, or just because they curse a little, or just because the Beautiful People (who are glorified Divas if you asked me) show a litle more T & A doesn't make TNA a more adult program.
 
Your dismissive comments about the significance of ratings is almost laughable, and is the battle cry of the defeated, the ultimate showcase of the lack of reality and realism in the average TNA sm.. oops fan.

Of course ratings matter. It's what determines success versus failure, more so than a bunch of guys like ourselves debating on some internet forum. Rating mean success and ratings mean money. More money improves the product, breeding even more success, and the cycle continues.

I remember the real Monday Night War between WWF and WCW. And talk to any WCW who celebrates the fact that WCW was winning the war for a while, and what will every one of them, to a man, refer to: that WCW was beating WWF in the ratings for 82 consecutive weeks. In other words, WCW was successful rather than WWF because it won the ratings war for nearly 2 years, but when WWE wins the ratings war against TNA, ratings suddenly don't matter. Inconsistent and illogical.

And just because Flair and Hogan bleed all over the arena like they always have, or just because they curse a little, or just because the Beautiful People (who are glorified Divas if you asked me) show a litle more T & A doesn't make TNA a more adult program.

The problem with your argument is that nobody's saying ratings don't matter. Of course they do. But TNA is in the process of building ratings, it's not going to jump by 3 full points overnight. Ratings are a determining factor of who's more successful, but not what is better. If 10 million people watch Grey's Anatomy, that doesn't mean it's a better show than House, M.D. It may mean it's am ore profitable show, but not necessarily better.
 
And just because Flair and Hogan bleed all over the arena like they always have, or just because they curse a little, or just because the Beautiful People (who are glorified Divas if you asked me) show a litle more T & A doesn't make TNA a more adult program.

THANK YOU! I have been saying this for the past few weeks. For a program to be adult, it needs some adult-level writing. Tits, blood, and swearing do not an adult program make. Deep storylines that we as adults can get into do.

I will have to say that this Angle/Anderson feud is exactly what I'm looking for. It has some nice build, interesting and personal motives, and some very complicated characters, people who aren't two-dimensional.

I don't think we can really declare a winner of the first round just yet. TNA had the better show, but WWE will have the higher ratings. A winner cannot really be declared until:
A. They actually compete in ratings.
B. TNA gets crushed.
 
The problem with your argument is that nobody's saying ratings don't matter. Of course they do. But TNA is in the process of building ratings, it's not going to jump by 3 full points overnight. Ratings are a determining factor of who's more successful, but not what is better. If 10 million people watch Grey's Anatomy, that doesn't mean it's a better show than House, M.D. It may mean it's am ore profitable show, but not necessarily better.

Excellent point. However if you read the comments of many TNA wrestling fans (and I am not singling out the poster I was talking to specifically when I say this) they make it sound like ratings are irrelevant, and of course, nothing could be further from the truth. Because fact of the matter is, if ratings don't indicate success and progress, Panda, or Spike, or both, could pull the plug. War over.

You say TNA is in the process of building ratings. Jesus it's been years now, the ratings are not budging, not significantly anyway. A spike on Jan 4, likely a spike last night, but that's it. No one is expecting them to jump by 3 points overnight, but over the last several years they've probably increased from 0.8-1.2 maybe? I'm all for patience but Hogan and Flair are practically senior citizens already. If we have to wait years for the rating to improve, these guys will be in a retirement home before an actual Monday Night War occurs. Over the last few months of the Eric and Terry show, with the exception of the two spikes I mentioned, the ratings are stagnant. The new regime hasn't brought the results at all. And if I were a TNA fan or executive, this would concern me.
 
Your dismissive comments about the significance of ratings is almost laughable, and is the battle cry of the defeated, the ultimate showcase of the lack of reality and realism in the average TNA sm.. oops fan.
ThirdHebner made my case for me as he said everything I was going to say. Of course they matter but guess what, again we are debating who had the better show but of course to WWE fans or "marks" as you like to call yourself it's always ratings which to put it midly is also the cry of the defeated. If all you can ever say is, we have better ratings then in reality you are admitting that if you didn't have that you would have nothing.

I remember the real Monday Night War between WWF and WCW. And talk to any WCW who celebrates the fact that WCW was winning the war for a while, and what will every one of them, to a man, refer to: that WCW was beating WWF in the ratings for 82 consecutive weeks. In other words, WCW was successful rather than WWF because it won the ratings war for nearly 2 years, but when WWE wins the ratings war against TNA, ratings suddenly don't matter. Inconsistent and illogical.
I've never stated that ratings were the reason I considered WCW #1. I know many did but they are as short sided as the rest of teh WWE die hards using them now. WCW had better wrestlers, better stories and better matches. I just don't think that but many do, including the WWE's beloved Jim Ross. When wrestlers are weighing in and saying this company is better then our own, how can you not agree? TNA guys have stated before that WWE is #1, but they are trying to get there.

And just because Flair and Hogan bleed all over the arena like they always have, or just because they curse a little, or just because the Beautiful People (who are glorified Divas if you asked me) show a litle more T & A doesn't make TNA a more adult program.
Never said it made a more adult show but TNA doesn't have one thing WWE does. A little leprechaun running around crotch chopping people so kids can giggle. I just don't feel like my needs as an adult wrestling fan are met by the WWE and it's obvious that they are aiming their programming at children and trying to do little things to keep the adults there as well. TNA makes me feel like they are saying "if you are a kid or adult that enjoy our shows we are here for you, no matter what your age"

You say TNA is in the process of building ratings. Jesus it's been years now, the ratings are not budging, not significantly anyway. A spike on Jan 4, likely a spike last night, but that's it. No one is expecting them to jump by 3 points overnight, but over the last several years they've probably increased from 0.8-1.2 maybe? I'm all for patience but Hogan and Flair are practically senior citizens already. If we have to wait years for the rating to improve, these guys will be in a retirement home before an actual Monday Night War occurs. Over the last few months of the Eric and Terry show, with the exception of the two spikes I mentioned, the ratings are stagnant. The new regime hasn't brought the results at all. And if I were a TNA fan or executive, this would concern me.
When WCW started where they ratings juggernauts as well? Hell no. They had to build and I will be willing to bet that WWE wasn't pulling 3's when they started with RAW either. That's the problem with wrestling fans in general they are not patient anymore and expect everything to be given to them right there.
 
I originally said last night that it was a draw, but after talking to X about it I decided to rewatch both shows.

To me aside from the HHH/Sheamus promo and the Legacy match (which most people didn't like) Raw had nothing really. The guest host segments are just getting more and more cringe worthy as the weeks go on. Raw brought NOTHING new to the table, nothing "Raw"

If you wanted Raw last night, you had Impact. Now those who know me know how much of a mark I am for WWE. However last night (and rewatching today) Impact had me sucked in. From the opening match of Hogan blading, to having Sting appear and turn heel, to the rather good X Division match, to Beer money turning heel, to the beautiful people finally winning the tag belts, to Rob F'n Van Dam, to Angle/Anderson, to a rather good main event with Style/Flair Hogan and Abyss, plus the pope/Wolfe segment and of course Jeff Hardy. The production value was lacking, so fricking what. It was entertaining...South Park has shit production value but I love the show. Needless to say this was a very Raw Impact...the question is can they keep this up? For the short term they're drawing in viewers and that should be the goal at the moment and then build for the long term.
 
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I don't think there's really a question as to what the better show last night was. It had to be TNA. Just like the 1/4 show, the excitement level was through hte roof. The crowd was great and there were more than a few surprises, none bigger than the Sting heel turn. We also had some pretty decent wrestling with the X Division match and they didn't overdo it with the Jarrett and Foley stuff like they have been recently.

Raw wasn't bad and it wasn't really good. It was kind of just there. I actually quite liked the main event, but other than that, everything was pretty ho-hum. Raw will obviously have a significantly higher rating, but it doesn't mean it was the better show.

However, going forward, namely next week, WWE looks to have the big advantage. Let's see if they can produce what could be a spectacular show.
 
Dude that opening between Shawn & Taker was just ok. Nothing spectacular and their litle talk a few weeks ago was ten times better. It just kept going on and on and with TNA you had Sting returning and turning heel. TNA gets that one. WWE would have been better in the closing segmant but lets face it you have a big brawl in TNA involving Hogan, Flair, AJ, Abyss, Wolfe, Dinero & the return of Jeff Hardy. On WWE you had Batista/Vince/Cena and return of....Vladimir Kozlov? Yawn. The only good thing about RAW that was not miss was Randy vs Legacy. TNA had much better matches, not to mention more wrestling than RAW did. Did you even watch TNA or did you just say it sucks like the WWE marks?

Actually I did watch TNA and the whole point of why TNA was bad was the fact that Hogan was in the ring wrestling. He doesnt belong in a ring wrestling at all. Sting turning heel? hate to say it but i saw that one coming simply because it was so out there and tna would do it to try and shock us. I'm not a total hogan hater either because the guy was good and still has drawing power, but get out of the ring. He is simply awful to watch
 
I watched both shows and I will admit tna really stepped it up, and threw the first major blow. I believe it probably didn't hurt wwe ratings yet. But the momentum they have if they keep going the way they are going with getting guys like Jeff hardy, rvd, Shannon moore, mr Anderson, and now Kenny dykstra maybe. It shows the x division is alive and well. Now overall wwe's show was nothing short of a basic program! They didn't worry about tna! That's why I watched tna until 11 then wwe. And man was it stale . The whole criss angel every 15 minutes for a trick was stupid , you couldve just watched stings heel turn, and about four or five desent matches compared to wwe's 1 or 2 . Wwe you lose round 2.
TNA wrestling 2. - wwe wrestling 0 ( oh well it true)
 
Actually I did watch TNA and the whole point of why TNA was bad was the fact that Hogan was in the ring wrestling. He doesnt belong in a ring wrestling at all. Sting turning heel? hate to say it but i saw that one coming simply because it was so out there and tna would do it to try and shock us. I'm not a total hogan hater either because the guy was good and still has drawing power, but get out of the ring. He is simply awful to watch
So because someone you don't like is int he ring the WHOLE show is bad? So does that mean that even though they can put on PPV quality matches but if Mark Henry wrestles once I can claim the whole show was bad? I'll remember that for next time. The idea of calling an entire show bad because of one man is just ridiculous and shows once again that people will use ANYTHING to try to bash TNA when it's been shown that more people preffered TNA to WWE last night.
 
So because someone you don't like is int he ring the WHOLE show is bad? So does that mean that even though they can put on PPV quality matches but if Mark Henry wrestles once I can claim the whole show was bad? I'll remember that for next time. The idea of calling an entire show bad because of one man is just ridiculous and shows once again that people will use ANYTHING to try to bash TNA when it's been shown that more people preffered TNA to WWE last night.

To be fair in the posters defence Hogan wrestled twice and had a fair few promos to remind us of that. If Mark Henry wrestles twice and has three promos then sure you're entitled to bash.

Though to make the post seemingly on topic: I hate the old man wrestling argument. TNA had Hogan and Flair, both looked decent ring wise though I thought Hogan looked unwell during his backstage promo with Hebner. Meanwhile on WWE we had Vince in a ring, who in turn will wrestle a man at wrestlemania who hasn't wrestled for quite some time.

Both sides are playing the nostalgic factor on this one.
 
To be fair in the posters defence Hogan wrestled twice and had a fair few promos to remind us of that. If Mark Henry wrestles twice and has three promos then sure you're entitled to bash.
Eh maybe one match and a beatdown segment but I get what you are saying. Allow me to change my Mark Henry to let's say.......John Cena? Do I get the right then? Not a fan of Johnny boy so I am entitled right?

You are right about the nastalgia factor though. People complained about Flair & Hogan but are clammering for a 50 year old stroke victim to try to kill himself at WrestleMania. The whole "old guy wrestling" argument is pretty much dull and worthless in the last few weeks. Hell two years ago people were still marking for Naitch but since he's not in WWE it's horrible. Hell he looked pretty decent in the ring and Hogan didn't limp around and roll around as much as people thought and let us not forget the most important thing that people proclaimed....Hogan DID NOT get the pin. That's right I called it last week in saying Abyss would pin AJ. I claimed it a week ago and I was getting all sorts of comments that I was wrong but who has egg on their face now? For all the moaning and complaining everyone did Abyss got the win over AJ on the second Monday show and Hogan didn't clean house in the brawl, that would be Jeff.
 
TNA Destroyed WWE. And i say that as a WWE Fan. Well i use that term losely. I Put up with it for a while til about last nov. When the guest hosts and Hornswaggle finally Got to me. But i occasionaly will watch smackdown. And i've been watching Impact since Jan. 4th. I had watched it priviously in past years but wasnt too impressed. But With Hogan, Bischoff Working for another opponent company to the WWE i was Intrested. Jan. 4th TNA Also Destroyed WWE. TNA had Hardy, Morley, Sting, Flair, Hall, Syxx that all showed up. WWE Had Bret Hart which was pretty impressive i must say. But they have included Cena In the Storyline in the past weeks which i feel watered down they effect cause i love bret but i hate cena. Then TNA Last Night Was unbelieveable. Sting Came Back and Turned Heel destroyed Abyss and Hogan. And Pushed Around Dixie. Then RVD Came Back with a victory over sting which was pretty cool. And Sting Demolished RVD with the bat. Now thats just genuine story telling. The X Division was awesome. And Hogan Really Gave it his all in his tag team match. WWE What did they do, nothing. They Had Undertaker and HBK And im looking forward to this match but there was no excitement. TNA had Electricity in the impact zone. WWE Was Slow and Boring. I watched 90% of TNA because their product was much more impressive. And Raws Gauntlet against Cena Sucked. Very Predictable. The TNA Knockouts were awesome. Anderson, Angle Was had a very different Feel to it and they made interesting storylines. And Dispite what others may say, I love The nWo. So I think TNA Is doing the right thing with "The Band". They Arent Winning Matches. They Are There For Entertainment Purposes. And Puting Eric Young With Nash Against Syxx and hall Thats Just Good Booking Not really Pushing the older guys but just having them there for storylines and not for main events. So TNA By Far Won The First Round of The War. Which IDK If TNA Will win ratings. (i really Doubt it) But The Fact that they had the better product is big. They Need to Divid The Adience And Get A Greater Fan Base.
 
So because someone you don't like is int he ring the WHOLE show is bad? So does that mean that even though they can put on PPV quality matches but if Mark Henry wrestles once I can claim the whole show was bad? I'll remember that for next time. The idea of calling an entire show bad because of one man is just ridiculous and shows once again that people will use ANYTHING to try to bash TNA when it's been shown that more people preffered TNA to WWE last night.

Umm did u watch impact? Hogan was all over the show and seemed to be the main focus. Sure there were some quality matches, but overall the show centered around hogan. You may say that it didnt, but when I hear about or see Hogan in almost every segment of the show, it centers around him. And u mention Mark Henry when he was on the show for like 5 minutes at the most. In no way did the show center on him. And as to saying that more people prefered TNA to WWE on monday, dont look at a poll of a few people of the IWC, look at the ratings. Sure WWE was down a bit, but TNA couldn't even draw a 1, it had to be rounded up to that for them. I won't try to use anything to bash TNA because I would love for a promotion to come up and compete, but TNA just isnt putting their best foot foward and giving me a reason to think they are better.
 
did any of you see the ratings. more ppl watched wwe so how th ehell did impact win. TNA got its lowest ratings so how did they win. they produce a clusterfuck while raw doesnt and you give TNA the win.:confused: a show got its lowest rating and u guys consider that a win. I dont know why there are so many TNA marks yet they cant get decent ratings consistnetly
 
Eh maybe one match and a beatdown segment but I get what you are saying. Allow me to change my Mark Henry to let's say.......John Cena? Do I get the right then? Not a fan of Johnny boy so I am entitled right?

You are right about the nastalgia factor though. People complained about Flair & Hogan but are clammering for a 50 year old stroke victim to try to kill himself at WrestleMania. The whole "old guy wrestling" argument is pretty much dull and worthless in the last few weeks. Hell two years ago people were still marking for Naitch but since he's not in WWE it's horrible. Hell he looked pretty decent in the ring and Hogan didn't limp around and roll around as much as people thought and let us not forget the most important thing that people proclaimed....Hogan DID NOT get the pin. That's right I called it last week in saying Abyss would pin AJ. I claimed it a week ago and I was getting all sorts of comments that I was wrong but who has egg on their face now? For all the moaning and complaining everyone did Abyss got the win over AJ on the second Monday show and Hogan didn't clean house in the brawl, that would be Jeff.

Actually after seeing them in the hulkamania tour videos I saw where they really can't put on a match anymore. It isn't just their age. Ricky Steamboat dispite being 60 can still put on a greast match if he wanted to, and did put on a few good matches last year. Now that dosn't mean I want to see Steamboat come back, I don't. But he proves the proublem isn't age.

The idea of calling an entire show bad because of one man is just ridiculous and shows once again that people will use ANYTHING to try to bash TNA when it's been shown that more people preffered TNA to WWE last night.

Well, while I agree calling a entire show bad because of one worker is dumb, it's clear that while maby not on here, the majority do prefer the wwe, hence why the ratings were better.
 
If TNA produces a show and no one watches it did it really happen? Jk seriously a rating of 0.98 which is what TNA actually got on their big move to monday has to be sort of a dissapointment for all of those who support the company. I have been watching TNA pretty constant since Hogan jumped on board having only watched it on a limited basis before and I think TNA has a great group of talent but to be honest since Hogan and Bischoff jump on I got to admit I have been dissapointed. I dont think their move has transcended the company as a matter of fact it has regressed the company because it has force them to turn their back on the real talent that got them their name recognition. Will I stop watching TNA? No I am intrested in seeing what direction they take the show but I do wish them luck in their fight againts WWE because they surely will needed if they want to make a mark on the wrestling scene I just dont see that happening with some of the product they are pushing right now. TNA has potential but that can only carry you so far. 4 or 5 months down the line will TNA supporters and Spike still be happy about the program drawing in the range of 0.98, or 1.1 ?

Btw First time poster been following this forum for several months now. Hope to contribute in some of the conversations that go on in here. Thank you. Peace.
 
I'll chime in, and I will get to my opinion as to who "won" at the end, but before I do, I want to just address some of the ongoing dilemmas and sub-arguments:

1) Ratings matter for the masses. It does not matter to your personal enjoyment of a show. However, for a show to survive, there has to be mainstream appeal. You could hear about a show like "freaks and geeks" being a lost classic, but it lasted only 1 season due to poor ratings. I have gone back and watched the show and it's actually quite good, but that doesn't replace the fact that it didn't get enough people watching its "quality programming" to keep it alive past 13 episodes. As this pertains to wrestling, the goal is to appeal to as many people as possible. Thus, TNA's program needs to continue to grow, because whether some internet fans like it or not, that won't grow the audience.

2) The argument using WCW as a model to "grow ratings" is basically ridiculous. When Nitro debuted, it actually outscored Raw by a tenth of a point. The ratings after that first week boom went mostly to the WWF for a few months, but by mid 1996, WCW was winning each and every week. Now I understand that WCW was around a few years before Nitro went on the air and had other television programming, but the same could be said of TNA. One could also argue that TNA has featured performers with "name value" in the same regard that WCW was able to, with the exception being that a lot of the name value TNA has is no longer able to be intricate to programming in a wrestling capacity. With that said, we must discount the argument that TNA needs years to build, because WCW had that. The truth is, it didn't, so TNA is already behind the curve.

3) Until March 8th, the OVERALL difference in content geared to an age related audience was negligent as it relates to TNA and WWE. Some have used Hornswoggle or DX (who haven't really been around in a couple of months) as reasons WWE is kid related, but up until recently, not much of an argument was presented regarding TNA as adult other than "it's TV-14, thus it's more geared towards adults". I will admit that TNA made an effort to be "risque" on Monday with a lot of blood, some more language than usual, and sexuality in relation to the champagne bath. If these items relate to you as an adult, then TNA did its job. I would argue that storyline-wise, the content is very similar between the show, and simply using a 2 minute segment of the show (Hornswoggle) as an excuse to say the ENTIRE show relates to children is a weak argument at best. If a TNA fan asks for their show not to be judged as a whole based on one segment, so too should that fan not judge WWE programming based on one performer who appears maybe 2 minutes a show.

4) Schizo and I have agreed to disagree before, but one thing I do respect about him is his ability to back up his opinions with reason. I have seen more reasoning than usual in this thread, but I have offered more. As all that relates to Monday, it's fun to share opinion, but it's also not fair to rag on someone else who differs in opinion.

I may have missed some things as I'm doing this all from memory, but with all those points made, let me give my opinion on "the wars" week 1. This time around, it wasn't so much of a war in terms of who was watching and even in terms of both sides "putting up a fight." If anything, the closer analogy would be like a freshman class challenging a few seniors to a fight. The freshman, motivated and driven, with energy out the wazzoo gather up the usual suspects and even get a few sophomores to join the cause. While motivated and perhaps good fighters, they aren't yet ready for the fight, and when this group shows up to the senior's party, they are ignored while the seniors hang out and have a good time on their own as usual. I think this analogy holds very true for the TNA vs. WWE argument. While TNA came out with guns blaring, doing everything possible to say "look at me! look at me!", the WWE went about business as usual, as it has its biggest Pay Per View of the year on the 28th.

I will admit that at first glance, I found TNA's episode to be much better than it's 1/4 version. Although there were similarities in the "look at me!" style, the surprises were better and the X-Division match was much better than the clusterfuck in the red cage last time. However, when I really sat down to watch Impact, I found too much of it hard to comprehend and somewhat laughable to remotely give it respect as a show. I will not get into every detail, but if I get questioned, I will answer anything directly. As a whole, I found TNA's program to be a lot of flash with little substance. So much was made about Hogan getting back in the ring, but it was anti-climactic at best. Throughout the show, there was questionable booking, best exemplified by RVD getting absolutely pummeled, taking any focus off of someone who could be a big draw. The focus was purely on a man who shouldn't wrestle and one who had recent shoulder surgery and can't do much either. Again, I felt this was a better effort than 1/4, but I still am not, and probably will never be a fan of Vince Russo hot-shot booking. Very rarely is the long term truly looked at and I would guess that the future is questionable at best.

Raw on the other hand did it's job. It may not have been the OMG WHAT A MOMENT type show, but there was certainly quality interwoven with some throwaway sessions. I was fond of any of the segments that pushed to wrestlemania, including the ShoMiz/Truth and Wisdom (I'm still sticking with that!) segment as it made it into a feud and not just #1 contenders against champs. Even the end of the show, which was a bit messy, got the point across the Vince will do anything he can to beat Bret because he can, because he's the boss. It also served to fuel Cena even more as Batista continues to get the uppser hand. I'm a fan of logical booking over hot-shot booking, so Raw appealed to me more. While I can understand at first glance how people enjoyed Impact for being unpredictable and fast paced, I found it too out of control and leaving it all on the field so to speak, so that moving forward, there is no way to keep that pace up, and thus, an inconsistency in booking. For me, I'd like TNA to slow down and focus on a few major things, that would raise my level of enjoyment. Also, I'm not a fan of the desperate use of blood and language. If it's needed, do it, but the more you do, the more it becomes watered down.

Conclusion is a no contest. When one side doesn't consider it a competition, you can't have a winner and loser. With that said, TNA is behind the curve. They have names, good workers, a television slot, Pay Per View guarantees, but still have trouble reaching great numbers. Focus on clean up the product and making it flow better and more logically and then get the marketing machine going. That is my suggestion. Until then, they are just the internet wrestling fan show for those who like to bash WWE. I personally would like to see TNA grow and put on better shows if not for my own selfishness and wanting as much good wrestling as possible. Perhaps good in my mind is different than others, but I can dream, can't I?
 
Sorry to say but any internet fan voting on this and voting for TNA doesn't get it. I mean, yeah, TNA CLEARLY won this battle.. you know, with their lowest rating in how long? With gaining zero new audience in months. With putting out a show that was bad in so many ways and made people tune out. What a victory!

The simple fact is is that neither won, especially not TNA, because there's no "war" happening. There's no competition going on. WWE gets mid to high 3's.. TNA does 1's. That's like Sweden starting war with the USA. It's laughable because it's so ridiculous.
 
"TNA CLEARLY won this battle.. you know, with their lowest rating in how long? With gaining zero new audience in months."

Rome Wasnt Build in a day. Of Course WWE Won the ratings they have more fan awareness.

"The simple fact is is that neither won, especially not TNA, because there's no "war" happening."

If TNA Won The Battle Then How Can u sit there and say there is no war. And Saying Niether won is just asanine. Everyone wins with a war. TNA Won because they put on a great show and showed they could compete with wwe. WWE won because more fans watched. And The Fans Won Because They get to see the absolute best product coming from both companies
 
Rome Wasnt Build in a day. Of Course WWE Won the ratings they have more fan awareness.

Was Rome built over the span of 8 years, though? The fact is is that TNA was toting their highest ratings ever, yadda yadda after their January 4th show. THAT show was suppose to have caught the eye of fans, brought in the beginning of a new audience by planting the roots for TNA where they lacked exposure before.. and yet they gained no audience that carried over to this Monday, they dropped back to the low ratings they've gotten years ago. Lord knows if that's winning anything and a success then your business would go bankrupt quickly. They haven't shown growth they've actually de-evolved. Obviously this is the case of more skewered logic by TNA fans.


If TNA Won The Battle Then How Can u sit there and say there is no war. And Saying Niether won is just asanine. Everyone wins with a war. TNA Won because they put on a great show and showed they could compete with wwe. WWE won because more fans watched. And The Fans Won Because They get to see the absolute best product coming from both companies

TNA didn't win the battle. In fact, how can you have a war when both parties aren't even COMPETING. Sorry to pull up the blinders for oblivious TNA fans, but WWE doesn't view TNA as competition. The ratings don't view TNA as competition. In fact, no standard you can go by views TNA as competition to WWE.. so where's this imaginary war coming from? TNA's at a war with themselves, nothing more. And if you JUST said that WWE won because more fans watched their show, then wouldn't that mean they won the night? :lol: Ratings is all that matters in the end, and TNA failed to even reach the height they'd previously put themselves.

And if you think either product put out their absolute best, then you really have lost touch with reality. WWE isn't trying at all, and TNA's product sucks. So yes, neither company won because they're not "competing" with each other in a "war".
 
I wouldn't give the first round to either.

I thought both shows had some bad aspects to them, and although TNA pulled out the surprise's, there were too many to be effective.

TNA iMPACT was a mixed bag. I thought that the opening segment was pretty cool, although I was surprised at the lack of wrestling on iMPACT. There was far too much talking for my money, and the whole X Division/Kaz/Daniels/Bischoff thing could have been completely avoided in my opinion. Put on another match. To my surprise though, it was Sting losing in a matter of seconds that really annoyed me. Fair enough you have to try and get Van Dam over but gee's, after how many years of wrestling and they get Sting to do a job in under 15 seconds. I know it was supposed to look like the surprise element that took Sting off guard but it just looked a little bad on The Icon. And then to have him beat down RVD and then of all people Hulk come out and having Bubba The Twat Sponge stopping him all got a bit melodramatic for me. I did like some moments though, the changing of the Knockout Tag Titles was a nice touch, and Kurt Angle had a great in-ring segment.

RAW was more of the same really. They need to start advancing Taker/Michaels. Everything else bar Orton Vs Legacy was mediocre at best. But I do like the fact that the WWE are not changing anything up because of TNA's move to Mondays. They desperately need to kill off the celebrity host thing soon. Its painful. Hopefully Steve Austin can bring some well deserved credibility to the host position next week.

All in all, it was definitely no January 4th. Both shows, the TNA clusterf**k and WWE BORE were pretty sub-standard for what they were. Here's hoping they pick up soon.
 

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