If You Are British And Over 18, Look At This Thread

[HBK-aholic]

Not necessarily. I mean, I completely agree with so many votes seemingly wasted each election - I just stated earlier that I didn't see the point going when Labour always wins in my constituency. But I don't think AV is fairer necessarily. One person, one vote is what our democracy is built upon. Not "Oh well who you want doesn't have enough so we'll give your vote to your second choice..oh no, wait, you can have a third vote.." And I don't listen to anything Nick Clegg says, it's all lies.

 

[Miko]

I voted this morning. Having voted for SNP in both the National and the Local Government election and AV in the referendum, I am happy with myself.

I am voting BNP. That is as acceptable as voting SNP right? Right?

 

[The Rob]

If you couldn't care, why did you vote?

I voted solely for my local election. My neighbour's wife is running for local MP and she's a very nice woman who has done a lot for the village I live in. If it wasn't for her, I wouldn't of bothered voting at all, local and/or AV.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Because the main reason people vote against it is because the party they support stand to lose more seats than gain.

This is basically why people are voting FOR it too. Nothing to do with what's fairer, but only what their party stands to gain.

 

[Lee]

Not necessarily. I mean, I completely agree with so many votes seemingly wasted each election - I just stated earlier that I didn't see the point going when Labour always wins in my constituency. But I don't think AV is fairer necessarily. One person, one vote is what our democracy is built upon. Not "Oh well who you want doesn't have enough so we'll give your vote to your second choice..oh no, wait, you can have a third vote.." And I don't listen to anything Nick Clegg says, it's all lies.

But you just get one vote, just more numbers. This is the one time Clegg has got it right, surely he's better than Cuntemron.

 

[HBK-aholic]

But you just get one vote, just more numbers. This is the one time Clegg has got it right, surely he's better than Cuntemron.

So, I place a vote for the Conservatives (LOL), and someone else votes for the BNP..they only look at my one vote because it's for a popular party, but someone voting for the BNP gets a second and maybe third choice? The first vote for the BNP counts by eliminating them from the options. And besides, most people don't realistically have a list in their minds of their favourite to worst parties.

Not to mention my annoyance at wasting money on something as pointless as this while we're cutting back on major services. For fuck sake Clegg, are there not more important things in the world? Clearly not.

 

[Gelgarin]

Wasting what money?

 

[Lee]

Typical Argument #1: The BNP will get in

You do realise the BNP is against the AV system as they would lose any seat?

Typical Argument #2: But few countries have this system

Few countries drive on the left side of the road.

Typical argument #3 But it's a complicated system

If you find writing numbers anymore complex than doing a cross you don't deserve to vote.

Typical argument #4 We're wasting money

This will barely cost anything to impliment and the No to AV side actually had adverts banned by trading standards as they were misleading, but hey they don't tell you about that.

 

[Dave]

I am voting BNP. That is as acceptable as voting SNP right? Right?

Absolutely!

This is basically why people are voting FOR it too. Nothing to do with what's fairer, but only what their party stands to gain.

Well, you can say that about other people but I am just an advocate for democracy. As Lee said, our PM was not voted in by 64% of the people in the UK. How can that be justifyable. I don't care less about the Lib Dems or any of the parties for that matter. I vote for the party with the best policies and that is that.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Typical Argument #1: The BNP will get in

You do realise the BNP is against the AV system as they would lose any seat?

Typical Argument #2: But few countries have this system

Few countries drive on the left side of the road.

Typical argument #3 But it's a complicated system

If you find writing numbers anymore complex than doing a cross you don't deserve to vote.

Typical argument #4 We're wasting money

This will barely cost anything to impliment.

I agree the first 3 are stupid, and I've used none of them. It IS a waste of money though - even having this referendum costs how much? All the leaflets, advertisements, organisation. And 'barely anything' is, first, debatable, and second, still too much.

 

[Lee]

You do realise that the "All the leaflets, advertisements, organisation" are not paid for by the taxpayer but by donors? That's how election campaigns work.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Absolutely!



Well, you can say that about other people but I am just an advocate for democracy. As Lee said, our PM was not voted in by 64% of the people in the UK. How can that be justifyable. I don't care less about the Lib Dems or any of the parties for that matter. I vote for the party with the best policies and that is that.

Why do people seem to think AV is suddenly going to make everyone agree? People are going to use numbers of 'over 50%' as a technicality and nothing more. Are peoples views going to change? No. Just because 'over 50% agree' using first, second and third choices, it hardly means anything. And I've already said the idea of democracy is one person, one vote, not people who vote for lesser parties getting more of a say, which is what happens regardless of how the Yes to AV campaign has made it sound.

 

[Gelgarin]

The leaflets cost... approximately nothing. Documentation is sent to voters every election anyway, it will just read differently this time.

The referendum cost... fuck all. We had to have local elections today anyway, some very minor expense that won't even register on the country's balance sheet.

The advertisements cost... exactly nothing. Private funding.


Finally, why exactly is that a reason to vote no? It still costs the same amount, except this time all the money has been for nothing instead of being put towards a moderately worth while electoral change.

 

[Барбоса]

With the size of modern polity makes proper democracy unworkable.

While there is technically "one person, one vote," there is always going to be a vast number of wasted votes in a parliamentary, party based democracy like the UK or USA. If the person you vote for does not win, your voice is not heard at Stormont, Holyrood, the Senedd or Westminster. AV will not fix that. It will only water down any powers to govern that these assemblies have and then we will have a whole other set of problems on top of those we already have.

 

[HBK-aholic]

You do realise that the "All the leaflets, advertisements, organisation" are not paid for by the taxpayer but by donors? That's how election campaigns work.

I'm not debating WHO pays for it, I just think anyone who thinks this is a worthwhile cause when there are so many more about with so little money are stupid. And in all likelihood it's not going to pass anyway.

the No to AV side actually had adverts banned by trading standards as they were misleading, but hey they don't tell you about that.

I truly could not care less..why is this even an argument? Because a politician has lied and been misleading? So is every person involved in this debate, whether in the Yes camp or the No camp. Listening to politicians who are arguing based solely on what they have to gain is stupid on anyones part.

 

[Daniel]

My mum just told me she voted no because it would hurt Nick Clegg. I told her voting yes would devastate David Cameron. I thought she'd like that as a committed socialist, but she wasn't having any of it.

Ridiculous.

 

[Lee]

The more pressing matter is English devolution.

 

[Gelgarin]

Newcastle for independence?

 

[Барбоса]

There is an uprising in Cornwall just waiting to happen

 

[Captain Morgan Freeman]

We use the single transferable vote in ireland which is pretty much AV and i have no problems with it. We voted out our corrupt fiana fail goverment and voted in a fine gael/labour coalition. Despite being the most unpopular/corrupt goverment in the last 30 years they still retained 20 seats out of a possible 166 when many felt they would struggle to get any.

But heres my main point a good goverment needs good oposition. Every goverment needs to be challenged on every possible topic to ensure they opperate to the peak of their abilities. So just because AV will give seats to opposition parties it is not necessairily a bad thing. If the goverment had a bad opposition that did not challenge them when possible then they would get lazy/complacent implementing the policies that suit them and that is not how goverment should be run.

And miko of course it is acceptable to vote for them. Everyone has the right to vote for whoever they want.
And to those who think theres no point voting because their candidate wont get in, in the last election i voted for a man who wants to legalise cannibis and is very outspoken about it. He was ridiculed in the news because of this. He also once sent a joint of weed to every polititan in goverment.

I voted for him and guess what? He got in he is now a politian in the irish goverment.

Politics its a funny old game

 

[Lee]

No just English MPs have say on English matters. Why should the Welsh, Scottish and Norn Irish have a say on English matters when we don't on their matters?

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

The thing with PR is that while using the argument of 'the BNP will get into power' is putting it a bit strongly, the system DOES make it easier for smaller parties to gain seats seeing as it roughly allocates the same %age of seats to votes irregardless of geographical fluctuations.

PR/AV is also more likely to lead to Coalition Governments, haven't we learned yet!? Dictatorship, that's what we need. A nice friendly totalitarian Orwellian nightmare... or countless more Coalitions which no-one votes for.

 

[Барбоса]

No just English MPs have say on English matters. Why should the Welsh, Scottish and Norn Irish have a say on English matters when we don't on their matters?

Payback for centuries of imperialist dictatorship?

 

[Tastycles]

So, I place a vote for the Conservatives (LOL), and someone else votes for the BNP..they only look at my one vote because it's for a popular party, but someone voting for the BNP gets a second and maybe third choice? The first vote for the BNP counts by eliminating them from the options. And besides, most people don't realistically have a list in their minds of their favourite to worst parties.

This is a terrible argument. If you vote for the BNP, and they go out in the first round, they use your second choice in the next round, when the count starts again. If you vote Tory, and the BNP go out in the first round, they use your first choice again in the second round, when the count starts again. Both people have their vote counted twice, but the BNP voter has their second choice.

Not necessarily. I mean, I completely agree with so many votes seemingly wasted each election - I just stated earlier that I didn't see the point going when Labour always wins in my constituency. But I don't think AV is fairer necessarily. One person, one vote is what our democracy is built upon. Not "Oh well who you want doesn't have enough so we'll give your vote to your second choice..oh no, wait, you can have a third vote.." And I don't listen to anything Nick Clegg says, it's all lies.

Nick Clegg said AV was a shit compromise, so vote for it.

No just English MPs have say on English matters. Why should the Welsh, Scottish and Norn Irish have a say on English matters when we don't on their matters?

Err... You know the mines in Wales are all shut because of the decisions of Tory MPs in the 80s, right? The Tories are the fourth most popular party in Wales. Also, and more importantly, the budgets of those countries are set by Westminster. I see your argument, but to say English MPs have no say in Wales is ridiculous, especially considering the Assembly are only allowed to make laws for the first time on Monday.

 

[Lee]

Err... You know the mines in Wales are all shut because of the decisions of Tory MPs in the 80s, right? The Tories are the fourth most popular party in Wales. Also, and more importantly, the budgets of those countries are set by Westminster. I see your argument, but to say English MPs have no say in Wales is ridiculous, especially considering the Assembly are only allowed to make laws for the first time on Monday.

But devolution happened in 97