If Randy Orton didn't have famous relatives and/or HHH's backing, would he be Champ?

[Rich the UK WWE Fan 2k14]

Topic.

Just something I've thought of recently.

If Orton didn't have Hall of Fame relatives, namely his Dad and Grandfather, and wasn't one of HHH and the McMahon family's favourites, would he be where he is now in WWE circles?

Over the years as well, he has had several demerits for backstage behaviour as well as several "Wellness" violations, in fact almost anyone else with as many would've been fired a LONG time ago.

So, would Randy Orton be WWE World Heavyweight Champion without certain "connections"?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I think that Randy Orton is someone that's LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG since proven that he's gotten where he is mostly because of talent. For some strange reason, and I don't know why, some fans refuse to believe that guys who make it to the top in WWE get there by being talented. I honestly don't know where it comes from. Is it personal jealousy that they themselves didn't have what it took? Is it bitterness because they made it while other wrestlers they were bigger fans of didn't?

As far as Orton's father & grandfather goes...c'mon...Randy Orton was a bigger star in the first few years he was in WWE than in all the years his father & grandfather had combined in the business. I'm not saying that to belittle Bob Orton, Sr. & Jr., but it is what it is. When Randy Orton came on the scene back in the mid 2000s, how long had it been since we'd seen "Cowboy" Bob Orton in WWE? How long had it been since we'd even given him a second thought? How many of us didn't even know who Orton's grandfather was?

As much as it flat out pisses some people off to acknowledge this in any way, shape or form; Randy Orton is a damn talented professional wrestler that's delivered FAR more times than he hasn't. Let's not let all the controversy in the title scene for the past 6 months make us forget that. Orton has helped make a lot of money for WWE, he's been involved in some very memorable feuds and very memorable matches. Some aren't into the guy, understandable since it's like that with every wrestler, but if Orton wasn't somebody that was able to deliver for WWE in a satisfactory way, he wouldn't have spent most of the past 10 years as one of the top guys. Would he be WWE World Heavyweight Champion? Who knows? From what I understand, WWE moved up their plans for title unification to TLC. As a result, luck & timing had to play some part in it as well as it does for everything in wrestling and life. Orton having not had the goods is almost as ridiculous as the notion that Triple H only became as big of a star as he has because he was banging Stephanie McMahon. If by some microscopic fluke that was the primary reason...well then...pretty nice work if you can get it.

 

[MCMG]

We could argue about him getting an initial job in the company. They probably ensured he got a chance but thereafter Orton has proven he is an incredible talent. I honestly don't buy this argument that Orton has had everything handed to him. He is one of the best wrestlers in this company and is, overall, underrated on the mic.

The family thing is pretty much a non-issue. Would he even like wrestling if his dad wasn't a wrestler? Can I say Bray Wyatt is only facing John Cena because his dad worked for the company. Ridiculous.

It wouldn't have hurt that he was in a stable with HHH and Flair but, again, he got over all by himself. He was doing a lot of work as IC champ; became popular and then won the World title. It was Orton being a damn good superstar then lead to his success and NOT his links.

 

[closet_fan]

Well you can really say that for a few wrestlers now, including Bray Wyatt. He's a favorite of HHH and has wrestling in his family.

Bob Orton Sr. and Jr. really weren't that big back when they were in their prime. Jr. had a couple big matches, including one with Hogan, but most of his fame came from being connected with Piper.

Orton is simply a talented wrestler who still gets a strong crowd reaction. And the fact he's been able to sustain that for as long as he has says a lot. From what I read, Orton was pretty close to being canned. But he turned his life around and saved his career.

Family connection doesn't mean a lot. Just look at Ted DiBiasi Jr.

Family background. Officials were high on him early, but he failed miserably.

 

[Alex]

Like Jack-Hammer said. He's talented. He may be a massive dick but he's talented.

I had to look up his father and grandfather because quite frankly I'd never heard of them. Apparently his dad did something with a cast during the 80s. But with all do respect they never did anything really noteworthy.

Yes Randy Orton had Triple H's backing. You know who else had Triple H's backing...Sin Cara, how did that work out. If you have the backing of someone you still have to prove you're the bees knees. It may be easier to get a shot with the backing of a high ranking person but you still have to prove yourself.

He's a good wrestler and competent on the mic as well as just having an energy about him (especially as a heel) that makes him believable. When he was attacking the McMahons in 2009 he legitimately came off as a psychopath. That's hard to pull off.

I think his attitude is what rubs people the wrong way and makes people feel he's undeserving. If he had a better attitude people would probably be a lot more forgiving...Or not seeing as he's a Triple H guy and that automatically makes you shit according to the IWC.

 

[James]

Orton would be some random guy discharged from theArmy and nothing more.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I think that Randy Orton is someone that's LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG since proven that he's gotten where he is mostly because of talent. For some strange reason, and I don't know why, some fans refuse to believe that guys who make it to the top in WWE get there by being talented. I honestly don't know where it comes from. Is it personal jealousy that they themselves didn't have what it took? Is it bitterness because they made it while other wrestlers they were bigger fans of didn't?

As far as Orton's father & grandfather goes...c'mon...Randy Orton was a bigger star in the first few years he was in WWE than in all the years his father & grandfather had combined in the business. I'm not saying that to belittle Bob Orton, Sr. & Jr., but it is what it is. When Randy Orton came on the scene back in the mid 2000s, how long had it been since we'd seen "Cowboy" Bob Orton in WWE? How long had it been since we'd even given him a second thought? How many of us didn't even know who Orton's grandfather was?

As much as it flat out pisses some people off to acknowledge this in any way, shape or form; Randy Orton is a damn talented professional wrestler that's delivered FAR more times than he hasn't. Let's not let all the controversy in the title scene for the past 6 months make us forget that. Orton has helped make a lot of money for WWE, he's been involved in some very memorable feuds and very memorable matches. Some aren't into the guy, understandable since it's like that with every wrestler, but if Orton wasn't somebody that was able to deliver for WWE in a satisfactory way, he wouldn't have spent most of the past 10 years as one of the top guys. Would he be WWE World Heavyweight Champion? Who knows? From what I understand, WWE moved up their plans for title unification to TLC. As a result, luck & timing had to play some part in it as well as it does for everything in wrestling and life. Orton having not had the goods is almost as ridiculous as the notion that Triple H only became as big of a star as he has because he was banging Stephanie McMahon. If by some microscopic fluke that was the primary reason...well then...pretty nice work if you can get it.

You have to remember that Orton was part of that OVW class that had so many important guys in there. Of that crop only Brock was ever singled out for greatness from the start.

Cena, Orton, Batista, Benjamin, Dinsmore all had equal chance to rise up at that time but in reality this is the order WWE would have looked at them in terms of who they'd like to get over... equate it to the last batch of NXT guys to come up to the roster, you'll have an order of how important they are even before they debut. Shield were a priority and deputed strong, but even within that group there was a pecking order with Ambrose at the top and Rollins the "bonus" if he gets over. Bray Wyatt is a priority cos he has been booked super strong but even within the guys on the show the other night in NXT there will be a pecking order - by giving Neville that belt they have singled him out at the next most important guy, then Zayn and Paige...

So back to Orton.

In 2002 they're looking an a pretty athletic kid, not the ugliest guy in the world so someone who has the right "look" and has a name that will resonate. How many people in 2002 even remebered Cowboy Bob? not many, he was a bit part player for 3 Manias... but the 2nd generation thing does hold a big attraction for casual and hardcore fans alike and Orton was the first one they perhaps used this to their advantage rather than the standard repackaging like Owen initially got.

He had some problems and some work was needed. You don't get thrown out the Marines for nothing, he had a cocky streak a mile wide and that is arguably the reason they put him in with Flair and Triple H to help teach him to control that and channel it into performance rather than life. Whatever you say about both guys, neither Flair or Triple H are known for being overly cocky or obnoxious in public or backstage but can be among the worst onscreen or when playing their roles... I got to meet Trips many years ago when he was still with Chyna and he was not cocky, he was pretty much what he portrays now onscreen albiet younger and not the bosses son yet and it was a nice brief chat cos I wasn't marking out but talking to he guy about anything but wrestling... Flair can be prickly if you try and be smart and plays up to the Ric Flair gimmick but again, most people would say he is a class act unless you try and make out you're part of his business. All are valuable to a kid like Orton, especially one with a preconceived chip on his shoulder and sore points built in like his military record... You could imagine someone needling him about it in 02/03 and him losing it where as now he'd probably shrug and ask you how much you earned last year.

In Orton's case he improved where he needed to in the ring (with those two teaching you you should) but his attitude continued to let him down. This led to him losing titles and steam at crucial times of his career. Be it trashing a hotel room or the fabled shitting in a handbag (Sorry Amy Weber, saying it never happened is classy but I am not so sure...) Muck sticks to Orton in a way it only really has for Shawn previously but on the whole the positives outweighed the negatives.

When he had his last wobble when working with Barrett I am convinced he should have been 3rd striked but they swept it... and I am convinced it will happen before too long - his record shows he has peaks and valleys and is due a valley right about now...

In terms of family we can agree Orton Sr has probably hindered rather than helped. Any initial boost he got from the name quickly fizzled as Randy is now by far the most famous Orton and Bob's astonishing faux pas when working with Taker and blading despite carrying something communicable was unforgivable - he's never been seen since and won't be. His uncle Barry blowing the whistle on Mel Phillips and Pat Patterson's blowing whistles probably also still is a black mark so to speak, even if there was wrongdoing.

Being backed by Triple H? Is Orton really backed by Triple H? Perhaps in the sense that he is someone he has "trained" himself and thus can rely on to perform in the ring, if not always behave outside of it. In ring he's not "as good" as Trips was (in Paul's head anyway) so there's little danger of them being compared in that way but again, when he's good Orton can be a great headliner... when he's going through the motions as he has through a lot of this title run then he can suck ass... the only thing saving him right now is that people hate Dave more than they hate him...

I personally think Vince wouldn't have gone with Orton this time out, he'd have gone with Cena or Ryback if he could... but as this is "Trips time" then Orton is a compromise Vince can't argue against, he served his penance for his last misdemeanors, he has name value and is "a good hand". He's also someone who can "take the flak" and be that "villain the WWE Universe needs", Orton can take a lot of shit sticking to him and deflect from any failings in Cena.

Where Orton goes post Mania is going to be interesting. I see Cena taking time off to heal injuries. If Punk returns then he is likely getting top billing with Bryan for a while and Bootista now has the top heel role for the forseeable... with Wyatt quickly taking the other spot...

If Orton is ever gonna pick up that 3rd strike it's then... if he's pissed off, unhappy or tries too hard to force his way back into it... it might not even be Wellness related, he might just get frustrated and so something stupid again. If he did get canned for a 3rd violation, I don't think it would kill his career by any stretch, a year out may make the fans miss him, let him get his personal life stable, spend time with his daughter and decide if he wants to be a career guy and ultimately become a jobber to the stars ala Alberto, Christian and the like or become another part timer who comes in for odd spells. If it had been Orton returning instead of Dave, I don't think he'd be getting the boos at all...

 

[Mongoose McQueen]

I am not a fan of Randy Orton and frankly, I find him to be a very boring main event talent. However, I believe that he has lived up to his potential. Of course, he was given the opportunity because he already had a Father who had been in the industry and knew people and had contacts, this helped him. Overall I'd say that it does not matter if you are from a famous wrestling family because it's up to you to make a go of it.

 

[resignedknight]

Thanks for the thoughts and info Robtaylor. I was just wondering what the wobble with Barrett was, I haven't heard about that. I hadn't heard about the Bob Orton hep thing either, but I was able to find some stuff about it, pretty F'd up.

 

[dhines1671]

The question is hard to answer. In the current era where the brand split and 2 titles watered down the main event picture I believe Orton makes it whether he's 3rd generation, or not.

Unifying the titles would be meaningless without longer runs as champ. Daniel Bryan will lose something once he gets his big moment and goes over clean. After a couple months and 2-3 defenses then what? Without an abundance of legit main event guys monthly PPV only hurts title prestige.

Randy Orton was the best option WWE had at the time. I think his current run has zero to do with who he is, and more to do with who he isnt, John Cena. WWE had to go with someone else. Daniel Bryan couldn't go into mania with the title. Punk is out, No Rock this year. Brock is busy with Taker.

 

[HBKistheHOF]

Would Randy Orton have been a top superstar & World Champion without his "connections"? Yes, definitely. He has the talent, the look, etc. Pretty much everything except for really solid promo skills. Which these days it's seems like as long as the majority of the superstars can just read from a script then that's enough for the WWE as far as promos go.

But without those same "connections" would Randy Orton have been the youngest World Heavyweight Champion ever, would he have been given multiple second chances (both backstage & on screen), would he have been the guy to unify the WWE's two main world titles & as of now, be the only guy to hold the WWE World Heavyweight Championship? I don't think so. Randy more or less peaked years ago. His in-ring skills are pretty much in their prime but he hasn't really progressed much in any other categories in years. & in that time not only has he had several screw ups & what not that might have led to him being released if he had not had any "connections" but Randy is known for attitude problems, has had health issues & fell out of the main event scene & became more or less irrelevant on multiple occasions, among the many other circumstances that might have changed or been altered.

So while I've been a fan of Randy's since day one, he is a bit of a "problem child" & I think a majority of his best work is already behind him. He is talented & I'm sure has worked for at least some of what he has achieved but Randy should definitely thank his lucky stars & be happy he has so many "connections" because otherwise who knows where he would be.

 

[darkdays]

You've got to be kidding me. This again? If anything,people like Orton who have famous relatives in wrestling to it even harder because they've got more to proof that they belong and not getting there because of their relatives and/or friends.

Some make it and don't cave in and some don't(Erik Watts,David Flair, Greg Gagne etc). And heres a question. In 5 years will we be reading these same type posts about Cody Rhodes or Roman Reigns if theyre huge stars too? I mean they too have got famous relatives and friends too that will and have helped them too.

I bet we wont because unlike Orton,they're not IWC Public Enemy #1. This is just another Orton basher trying to start crap. And btw THTRobTaylor, the Barrett match were he took time off after the thrown down the stars angle wasn't for any drug suspension. He was having back problems and had to get them checked and missed time from it.And to those that said he has "peaked" in regards to his in ring work???LOL. If that's the case I guess I was just imagining those great matches hes had these past few months with Cesaro,Bryan,Cena,Sheamus,Christian etc.Hes still one of the Top 5 workers in WWE today.

 

[haydo 434]

Randy orton is one solid performer in the ring I also believe that he is great on the mic and fits the role of a hated heel very well.
I dont understand how people believe he is 'boring', his character is to portray that of a ruthless heel and yeah although lately he has being quite cowardly I.e running out the ring, the randy of the past was very very entertaining, you want boredom look at sheamus the man is stale.

Randy is still only in his early 30's and has a ton more to give to the wwe. Above all else he is a workhorse who is at not only raw and smackdown but live shows also. Randy orton is going to get even better in the next few years.

 

[The Life Of Pablo Ren]

Well... I think a better question is, "Would Randy Orton have a job?". Let's assume that he did though, I still think he would be a main event player... but I don't see any way he would've won the title at the age of 24 if he was just Randy Orton and had no connections to the business.

And as many have touched on, he has proven himself. You can say he's boring and that's fine, although a huge fan of Orton I find his chin locks a bit redundant... but many Professional Wrestlers, active competitors on the roster and past ones have said that they would like to work with Randy Orton, calling him among the best workers in main-stream wrestling. He's as athletic as anyone, and has a great look. Yes, he still would've become World Champion, it just would've taken him longer to do so.

 

[Softcore Holly]

His relatives at best got his foot in the door, that's pretty much it from them since I doubt they had much or any influence backstage.

Having help from the higher ups is a obvious plus, it helped him a chance to show what he can do at the bigger stages and that's where Orton delivered. He really did shine when he had the chance and that's what got him to where he is today.

However without significant backing from backstage that all those wellness violations, attitude problems and all the other stuff he supposedly did would've gotten him canned years ago, or at the very least far, far away from the main event. Since the ever burning question to these kinds of topics is "Did he get to where he is on his own?", I would say no since he obviously needed someone in the higher ups to protect him from himself.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Did the OP make a mistake and mix up Randy Orton's and Curtis Axel's names?

Here, let me look through my Bizipnabizap that allows me to look through infinite parallel universes and see what life would look like with moderate changes. Turns out if Orton didn't become a wrestler he would have dominated another industry. He would have been a dual threat taking over both the worlds of straight and gay porn.

In other words, I have no clue. Maybe I should go ask David Hart, David Flair, Nick Hogan, Garrett Bischoff, Wes Brisco, and Jimmy Snuka's greaser kid what they think. In the meantime I will try to avoid such mind blowing threads.

 

[nightmare]

Orton is damn good at this. I never understood why some people consider him a 'who you know, not what you know' guy. He grew up around this business & has worked to get where he is. Sure he has had some backstage issues along the way, but that does not change the fact he is good in the ring. He has always been a great example of just how a heel champion should be- his mic work, ring work, mannerisms & subtle details most dont seem to notice show that he does quite well regardless of who he knows.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Thanks for the thoughts and info Robtaylor. I was just wondering what the wobble with Barrett was, I haven't heard about that. I hadn't heard about the Bob Orton hep thing either, but I was able to find some stuff about it, pretty F'd up.

Threre's a lot that has happened with Orton and his family that is reason enough for him to not be where he is, so that's kinda where talent has got him to where he is rather than being anyone's boy.

With Barrett I think it was right at the time his marriage was ending so they gave him time off to "deal with issues", maybe they just didn't test him on purpose at that time or he might not have had anything at all but for them to just bail on that programme that was cooking nicely was very strange indeed and really hurt Barrett a lot. Orton seemed to serve a pennance/midcard period when he came back so he must have done something.

The Bob Sr. thing is one story they probably wouldn't want out there but it got out and rightly so. Especially since the issues with Abdullah and McGuinness.... If it's even part true then Taker would have been within his rights to quit or even sue the company... the Devon Nicholson case is one thing, Taker, one of the top guys getting something from someone not being screened or disclosing would have been armageddon for the WWE.

As with all stories the truth is probably somewhere between the lines of all that has gotten out over the years but overall Randy Orton has ridden his luck more than most. You don't go AWOL twice unless you have issues, you don't serially screw up in your job the way he has every couple of years without issues... he still has 5 on his deal so the 3rd strike within that time is a possibility... 5 years is a long time not to screw up when you have history and propensity to do so.

 

[Aeon Mathix]

I am of the opinion that yes, Randy Orton would have still gotten as big as he did. He didn't debut trying to ride the coat tails of his father like Curtis Axel and Ted Dibiase Jr. did and we know how far that took the two of them He debuted as a chizzled young guy with all of the potential in the world and don't forget, it wasn't Orton who was originally chosen to be a part of Evolution. It was actually Mark Jindrak but he fucked that up. Orton never had as much backstage pull as people may think. Do I know that for sure? No I have never worked with WWE, but he has had his suspensions and punishments and has more than paid his dues in the business.

The one thing I can say is that from watching Orton's documentary "Evolution of a Predator", is that the pro wrestling business wasn't always the first thing on his mind. He at first enlisted into the Marines and got discharged for going AWOL. It was only after that that he decided on the WWE. Do I believe Bob Orton got him a job and put in a good word with him? Yes I do. Pro Wrestling or Domino's delivery boy, no one is going to look at a guy who went AWOL with a grain of salt, especially considering WWE's contract process. So bottomline, I do think Orton having ties to the business helped him INITIALLY, but he achieved his success and legacy all on his own through sheer talent and proving he was here to stay.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

It's not like Cowboy Bob Orton was such a WWE luminary that Randy got some kind of golden ticket into the upper levels of the WWE. I'm sure it helped him get into Developmental, but he was a natural in the ring from the moment he walked into the place. He really does have everything that the COMPANY wants in a WWE wrestler.

As for having Triple H's backing, if Triple H left the business for whatever reason before Orton debuted, Orton still would have gotten the CHANCE to be a main event mainstay in the company. However, he may not have SUCCEEDED if he didn't have an older-brother type (Triple H) to call him out on his bullshit behind the scenes.

Orton was a standoffish prick, and when he got disciplined by the front office, Triple H was the only wrestler to try to knock some sense into him, and the only one that Orton wouldn't have told to go fuck themselves.

So in that sense, its very likely that Orton would not be in this position today had it not been for Triple H.

 

[nWo2]

Drew McIntyre was booked strong and personal shit interupted his push.

Chris Masters was booked strong and personal shit interrupted his push.

Matt Hardy was booked strong and personal shit interrupted his push.

Mr. Kennedy was booked strong and personal shit interrupted his push.

Triple H was booked strong and personal shit interrupted his push.

The difference here is Randy Orton has benefited from nepotism and his relationship on camera with "The Authority" is a parody of the perception. If this weren't true at all it couldnt work as an angle and probably one of the best angles Triple H and Stephanie have worked together since they have gotten together.

Randy Orton is no slouch, but since Triple H is the ONLY guy to make it out of the dog house and be a huge success and Randy Orton has violated the substance abuse policy as much if not more than lets say Sin Cara and Randy is rewarded by the championship and Sin Cara gets rebooted then YES! If Randy weren't a 3rd generation wrestler with obvious ties and favoritism to Triple H then I doubt his career would have gone so well.

He benefited from a spot for Jindrak in Evolution and it worked story line wise, but unless we see a change his character is bland and will continue to bore.

 

[Randy's_Voices]

His family connection didnt help that much. Got him in the door but thats it really. The internal push was huge for him though, I dont think he could have made it through his personal problems and still became a headliner without the push from office. He probably would have won a few titles but would he have been the youngest champ and achieved all the other high milestones? probably not.

 

[enviousdominous]

Ladies and gentlemen, we pro-wrestling fans have a big problem on our hands. A cannibalistic humanoid under-dweller is on the loose and is terrorizing our senses with horrible decisions regarding which individuals should become future superstars. That's right, a CHUD is fucking up our pro-wrestling experience. That CHUD has been going by the name of Stephanie McMahon, but be warned that it can take many forms.

Stephanie is the invasive part of Vince's conscience that his dark and lighter sides are equally terrified of, she's basically a carnivorous earwig that wanders into Vince's head and devours his brain matter before replacing the missing synapses with her own shit.

In comes a kid named Randall Orton. He's a slouching dork who only recently got discharged from the Marine Corp for desertion. He gets a job in OVW because he's a third generation prospect. He gets pushed because he's an ass kissing socially inept geek who just wants to make pro-wrestling his new family. He gets main event status well after proving repeatedly that his fame has gotten to his head and that he's a morally depraved sack of shit ONLY because the CHUD I mentioned before finds him sexually attractive.

That's the ONLY fucking reason Randall is allowed to wander into the title picture and have a line of shirts that are just Affliction knock offs with a gas mask drawn over the design. If that worthless CHUD wants to bang you, then you're a world champion.

 

[Slyfox696]

Would someone who is 6'5" with perfect bronze skin, good looks, a terrific physique and extensive knowledge and insight into pro wrestling have made it in the WWE?

I'll go out on a limb and say, "yes". I know it's not really the WWE's way to get larger than life wrestlers with a terrific physique, good looks and a great background in wrestling, but I suspect they would have made an exception this one time.


And once we establish Orton would have made it in the WWE, then you can only go by how good he's been since he started and there's no doubt Orton's career is due solely to Orton, not anyone else.

 

[lowandmighty]

I think he probably got a bit of a head start because of his family and contacts at the beginning but Its Randy Orton's talent that has taken him all the way.

I'd say he would have made it on his own eventually but it would have taken a bit longer.

His talent has prevented him from being fired, not his family and friends.