I don't get where Cena's coming from....

You also complain about Cena never losing cleanly yet CM Punk hasn't lost in 9 months PERIOD
If you just hate Cena say that you hate Cena, dont use your hate for Cena to justify CM Punk
If Cena got hurt or left there is no way anyone can tell me that CM Punk can fill the stadiums and sell Merch the same way sorry just not going to happen

Really? Really? Really?
Im sorry to say, but you saying there is no way Punk can't fill stadiums and sell as much merch as Cena can is completely bogus! CM Punk is as popular as Cena is, he puts on far better matches and rarely ever gets booed even as a heel. Before Rock came back, Punk was ahead of Cena in merch sales!
 
Ok so this past week, Cena came out and explained that Punk is taking a backseat to everyone else. Then he goes onto explain that CM Punk needs to beat Cena at NOC to define his career and truly become great. Okay....

#1. CM Punk has had a breakout year and is considered by millions to be the best wrestler in the world. He has been the WWE's most talked about superstar all year. I know Punk is a heel and he's trying to make Cena look like a hero, but how do they figure CM Punk has been in the backseat? With the exception of Wrestlemania, he's been the headliner.

#2. What makes this title defense so substantial? How is it any different from the other times Punk has defeated Cena over the past year? How does Cena figure that winning at NOC will define CM Punk's career? I just don't understand.

Anyway, the thing that really sucks is NOC takes place in Cena's hometown. And if you're a face, and you have a main event match in your hometown, you're going to win. For example, CM Punk won the WWE title in Chicago, the Rock beat Cena at Wrestlemania in Miami, let's face it, Punk's reign is over.

Let me give you an example of another situation. Back in the 90's there were 2 superstars that were either the main event or on the cusp of being the main event. I'm referring to Hulk Hogan and Bret Hart.

Hogan was the super hero, the face of the company, the backbone, and the guy that the fans knew, looked up to, and tried to emulate. By no means did his in ring work earn him the title of best wrestler in terms of wrestling skill, but none-the-less he was the epitome of the WWF.

Along came Bret Hart, who had some of the best in ring mechanics of any wrestler on the planet. He defined "wrestling ability" in terms of maneuvers, holds, and general mechanics inside the ropes. He didn't possess the same character ability that Hogan had, but Bret was by far a better "wrestler". The problem was that Hart always took a backseat to Hogan. Hogan was the one that sold out arenas. He was the one the fans came to see. Some fans wanted to see him win and others wanted to see him lose. He could play the character like none other.

Another example that you could also use would be Austin and the Rock. Rock was clearly the better wrestler, yet Austin was the better character. Austin's style of match was mainly kicking and punching with the cool finisher. He didn't put on great holds, or great athletics, but he didn't have to because his character carried the show.

In wrestling they're 3 traits that a person needs.
1. Wrestling Skill (which involves your athletic ability, stamina, wrestling knowledge, etc). It encompasses everything in terms of wrestling skill. Some are better than others. Anyone who came from the Dungeon had great skill, most Canadian wrestlers or collegiate athletes, etc.

2. Character (which involves your ability to create, mold, and act like a character. You have to be able to play the role so acting is a key. Speaking is another key component). Hogan, Austin, Rock, Cena, Jericho, Piper, etc. These guys had the character that entertained. Punk is comfortable on the mic as well.

3. Combining both to catch the audiences attention (which involves exactly what it says. The crowd has to be involved, they have to cheer or boo, they have to relate, they have to love or hate, they have to have an emotional response). Fans think that wins and losses matter, but in reality wrestling is fake, it's outcomes are staged, and it's entertainment. If you cheer or boo as a fan then you're entertained. Entertained is not defined as liking, but rather as having an emotional response. Cena, like Hogan and Austin could get more fans involved than any other superstar on the planet.

The Character that generates the most attention is always the main event because you have to think from a business standpoint. Who's the guy people are coming to see win or lose? It's always the character that draws the most attention. That was Hogan, that was Austin, and that's Cena today. It doesn't matter the feud, or the match. The only way Punk can main event, the only way for Hart to main event was to get rid of the current main event (Hogan, Cena). It was slightly different with Austin and Rock because for Austin to be the babyface main event the Rock had to be heel.

CM Punk has great in ring work, and a pretty good character, but he relates to an older demographic. He doesn't fit the mold of PG entertainment. As long as Cena is in the WWE he's always going to be the main event. This happens all the time from one wrestler to another and after Cena they'll be someone else. And as long as the WWE is PG they need a PG character to carry the ship. CM Punk is not PG, he's not something little kids will follow and that's the nature of the beast. Like it or not, Cena is that guy. The irony is that as long as people continue to watch, buy tickets, merchandise, complain, cheer or boo Cena then he's always going to be the main event and the WWE has done their job of entertaining you.
 
Many things do not make any sense, such as John Cena giving us a speech after his match against Brock on how he had to go away and basically manipulated the few fans to cry in the audience to think he was leaving.

---Absolutely--- nothing was done with this, it came out of nowhere and was never, ever mentioned again.

They also had that firing thing, that again pulled the fans strings and he was back next week.

Its like a abusive relationship with WWE, they just jerk you around and cannot make their mind up regarding anything.

You know the company is struggling when their biggest star has no defining characteristic, lets not even mention that whole Kane vs Cena storyline where they for once admitted that fans hated him and "hate flowing through him" that was also dropped.

If such little care is put in your biggest star, then what hope do "nobodies" like Zigglers, Miz's, Swagger's etc have? There is a higher chance of a dog starting to speak in fluent english on the street at any given moment than them being given any characteristics.

I know i know, i am just flaming WWE and its what you have been seeing for the past 10 years, and its getting tiring for some fans just to read about people whining about the content of their shows. But there is simply no way around it, when something is this horrible, then it is impossible to overlook it and provide some half assed explanation why nothing makes any sense.

TLDR: They are booking 1 show at a time, often with many rewrites, it is WCW 101. WWE is WCW in every conceivable way. We all live in a M. Night Shamalamadingdong movie and the major twist at the end is that WCW actually bought WWF, at least that alternative reality set in a movie makes more sense than the sad reality that is pro wrestling today.
 
I was going to post something similar.

I'm not a Cena basher. I like Cena, and I think the IWC and the so-called "vocal males "often hate him for hate's sake, and I get tired of it. However, the whole reason for any championship is that it gives you the right to say that you're the best and grounds to expect others toacknowledge that you're the best. When Cena can't bring himself to say Punk is the best, it doesn't tell me that Cena's competitive instincts are giving him an admirable sense of pride, it tells me he's a churlish creep and a hypocrite for every time he boasted "the champ is here!"

People go into an athletic endeavor for many reasons: beating someone else who's considered the tops in their field is certainly one of them, but championships should be the main reason. People didn't have a lifelong dream of going into wrestling to beat John Cena -- they went into it dreaming of becoming champion.

Punk won the triple threat fair and square by the rules of that contest. He wasn't lucky (anymore than Shamus was "lucky" that Daniel Bryan turned his head to kiss AJ at WM), and when Cena labels him as such, Cena sounds like a whiny, pathetic bitch.

Add into the mix Cena stealing Punk's moment of glory at the NXT taping with a really condescending promo, fake cheers cynically dubbed over the actual fan reaction, and I want to see Punk kick Cena's ass more than I did last July, regardless of how whiny he gets about "disrespect" and how many announcers he kicks.
 
He is not the best on the Mic ( I give that to Cena)

Dude Cena isn't even close to Punk's Level on the mic.
Back on topic though, it seems like this match has been building up ever since EC with the main eventing and Cena has a point. A win for Punk at NoC can't do wonders for his title reign as well as legitimize the WWE Title. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
As far as thr defeating Cena cleanly goes each time Punk and Cena had a match at a PPV Punk was the heel its the heels job to not win cleanly. I think Cena ment if Punk beats him at NOC he would pass Cena's longest title reign of consecutive days as champion nothing to do about defeating him cleanly.
 
What I hate is the MINUTE you say anything bad about Cena, you're a Cena hater. I am not a Cena hater, I just find him boring and bland with limited wrestling and mic skills. But he is the top guy so we are stuck with him. I respect the stuff he does for Make A Wish and can only assume from reports about the guy off camera he's not the nicest guy in the world.

As much as we all want Cena to go heel the WWE would never do it. 1) It would cost them way too much money 2) I really don;t think he has the ability to pull it off. He hardly gets by now as a good guy. Everyone carries him in the matches and have to dumb down on the mic or in the ring to make him look better. 3)It really wouldn't have the impact it did when Hogan did it. Outside of wrestling, people would be like Cena who? Hogan was/is a household name.

WWE really has dropped the ball with Punk. He or anyone has YET to beat Cena cleanly in years. First the whole HHH thing squashing Punk's momentum, then not even having Punk main event and putting over Cena's useless old re-hash matches.They even gave Cena Punk's whole against the establishment thing, which made it even more stupid as Cena's the biggest company mark.
 
Dude Cena isn't even close to Punk's Level on the mic.
Back on topic though, it seems like this match has been building up ever since EC with the main eventing and Cena has a point. A win for Punk at NoC can't do wonders for his title reign as well as legitimize the WWE Title. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

Are you serious? Punk can't hold a candle to Cena on the Mic.

I will admit that Punks in ring ability is better then Cena's but it was Cena's Mic Skill that got him the push he has to day. Did you ever see his Thuganomics Gimmick?

Granted Cena is stale is in need of a Character tweak badly, but even with that said he is still the best full time entertainer the wwe has. Note I said Entertainer not Wrestler.

Cena is right all we remember about punks title raine is punks pipe bomb. It was good no doubt but since then he has just become another generic wrestler. People said he had a good feud with Chris Jericho. Please. Chris Jericho carried that fued it was one sided and Chris Jericho did all the work.

Hell Punk and D Bryan feud was getting so stale they had to throw in AJ and she ended up over shadowing the WWE Champion CM Punk.
 
I REALLY DONT GET WHERE CENA IS COMIN FROM....DONT GET ME WRONG IVE ALWAYS LIKED CENA BUT LIKE EVERYONE SAYS & ME SEEIN IT FOR MYSELF HE IS BORING, HOW DARE HE SAY PUNK NEEDS TO BEAT HIM FOR A LEMME GUESS....3RD TIME & IN HIS HOMETOWN WHICH HE WILL LOSE TO PUNK AGAIN!....I REALLY DONT SEE CENA WINNING AT NOC, IF HE CAN BE THE 1ST TO LOSE MITB BRIEFCASE HE CAN LOSE AT HOME.....BUT DONT WORRY EVERYONE.....

PUNK WILL KEEP WINNING UP UNTIL RUMBLE, CENA WILL WIN THE RUMBLE, ROCK WILL BEAT PUNK, & CENA VS. ROCK II AT WM 29, CENA WILL WIN & PUNK WILL BEAT HIM AGAIN AT MITB OR SOMETHING NEXT YEAR
 
1. I know CM Punk is meant to be the whining Champion and is just about to turn heel

2. I know Cena is meant to be the goodest of the good and that what he is meant to say is righter than right

But everything that Cena said was wrong and it made me hate him. To say that Punk's reign means nothing until he beats him is BS. I think that Cena saying that a World Champion is not the best is wrong. No matter who Punk has beaten he has beaten the #1 contenders the WWE have given him time after time, so Cena is saying the WWE isn't doing its job and he is saying that Punk is what the IWC has been and that Punk is a mid card champion, or a mid carder playing main eventer.

Cena came off as being so full if himself and even though Punk fad beaten him several times, Cena seems to have concur fly forgotten that. Cena sucks more than ever after that "retelling" of history.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, if Punk is the best because he is champ, then do you concede that when Cena has been champ, that he has beaten the best as well.

Or is it only when the champ is someone you like that it applies?
 
The way I view the order of “importance” in regards to Championships is:

1. WWE
2. World Heavyweight
3. TNA

So, with that being said, I believe CM Punk has been the “Best In The World” since Survivor Series 2011. Until someone takes the WWE Championship from him, I’ll consider his catchphrase to be the truth. I don’t care if you’re the opening match, the bathroom break, or the Main Event. The WWE Championship, the Company’s Championship, is the top prize.

The only thing I can say about Cena is, he’s more of a full time Legend, or a very active part timer. He appears to be getting treated as if he’s on the same level as the Rock, Brock Lesnar, Triple H, and Undertaker, with the only difference being is that Cena has more dates in his contract than all 4 of the Stars I mentioned…combined. He is, how Kurt Angle says, a Main Attraction SuperStar. He is Hulk Hogan from WM VIII onward.

CM Punk did in fact have a breakout year. The thing is, since Punk won the title, Cena has teamed up with the Rock, took December off, faced the returning Masked Kane, faced the People’s Champion on the Grandest Stage Of Them All, defeated the “Last Big Thing”, fought the “Boss”, toppled the World’s Largest athlete, became Mr. Money In The Bank, cashed in “honorably”, and didn’t lose his Championship match at SummerSlam. Seriously compare that run to CM Punk’s current Title reign. Win, lose, or draw, Cena hasn’t exactly been slouching since losing the Title to Alberto Del Rio at Hell In A Cell.

At Night Of Champions, the only thing that makes this WWE Championship match substantial, is that it’s what’s now. That’s all there is to it. I think what Cena meant when he said winning at NOC will define his career means defeating Cena, in Boston, would be a great victory under Punk’s Belt.
 
I could gladly see Cena vs Punk play out for the rest of the year. Those two have an amazing dynamic. Always have.
 
Who HAS beaten Cena cleanly in the last year and a half?
In the last 4 years?

Punk should continue with the belt because nobody is buying into this "CM Punk heel" garbage- The HEEL should NOT be getting the loudest cheers at house shows or anywhere else for that matter.

As far as where Cena is coming from I agree I can't seem to figure out. So in order for his title reign to mean something he has to beat Cena? Because Cena is the greatest wrestler ever right? I mean I know when Vince is blowing him he tells him that but come on. Punk has had a great run. He's had solid matches and yes he has taken a backseat every PPV essentially to Cena. But remember
Cena= Biggest pant-load EVER.
Won't lose cleanly to anyone (Don't even say Rock because holy crap we all know where this nonsense with the Rock is going)
Last time I really remember Cena being beaten cleanly was Batista in 2008? maybe an occasional fluke CLEAN win here and there but nothing really that speaks out in masses. Even his loss to CM Punk at MiTB was tainted because of Vince & Johnny Ace.

Punk needing to beat Cena for his title reign to mean anything is garbage. Watch- Even in Cena's hometown/state he won't get as loud an ovation as CM Punk does.
Nobody is buying this CM Punk heel garbage? I doubt you'll be saying that now. Heels get cheered all the time, the fact that the crowd approves of this new character change is actually a good sign. Furthermore Cena is the top dog as far as the WWE is concerned. He's their biggest active star and if Punk wants to solidify his career he should beat Cena cleanly. Punk, for the kind of push he was given, has had a slightly lackluster title reign. If they make Punk the chasing heel it opens the doors up creatively. Its rather boring seeing Cena chase the title at this moment because hes not going to pull a fast one on Punk. His character can only stand there, refuse to shake Punks hand, cut a promo, and repeat until the PPV. After an almost year long reign, Punk can lose the title without being looked down upon.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, if Punk is the best because he is champ, then do you concede that when Cena has been champ, that he has beaten the best as well.

Or is it only when the champ is someone you like that it applies?

Where exactly did I ever say I liked Punk? Take the fruity pebbles coloured glasses off for a second champ. If Cena was champ then I would have the sme issue if someone came out and rewrote history on him also. But because he is the face, the be all and end all us fans have to just accept what he said as gospel even though it's far from it. Am I even complaining about Cena or the creative content which is put in his mouth which makes him 1. Come off as an egotistical self-riteous bastard and 2. Since I'm actually paying attention to every Raw and SD, a liar.

CM Punk, who for the record I am not a fan of has been the WWE Champion for 9 months and has taken a backseat to Cena vs. Kane, Show etc. Punk wants his goddamn respect and Cena won't give it to him because ... Why exactly?

In 2001 at No Way Out, the WWF title match ended the show even though Austin vs HHH in a 3 stages of hell match was on the same card. Punk as Champion is sick of playing second fiddle to a guy who doesn't have the title.

But Cena walks out and says his nine month reign means nothing unless he faces Cena, even though he just beat him 24 hours earlier as well as the Big Show in a 3 way where the odds of him retaking are worse and Cena still won't give him respect. As I said before BS creative or Vince whoever is putting that shit in Cena's mouth makes me hate him and want to cheer Punk.
 

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