How far would you "Push the Envelope" in WWE?

Ambiguous Turd

Mid-Card Championship Winner
Imagine a WWE with no PG rating.

A dream come true for many fans out there. As a matter of fact I am going to do one better. Let's give you total control over having any rating you want for the show. The only catch to this is that you can't get the show thrown off the air. If you do, then you lose this exercise (in other words, an "X" rating is probably not a good idea).

What I specifically would like to gauge is each of your tolerance level for what you feel is "appropriate" and what is not "appropriate". Some of you are going to have very low thresholds, because of your personal preference. Some of you, on the other hand, are going to have very high thresholds.

There are two parts to this post:

Just a quick note: "WWE Shareholders" are asked to use caution when posting in this thread. I'm looking for what YOU feel is appropriate for the audience (and it doesn't have to be WWE's current audience, either) ... not what Vince McMahon feels is currently best for his business goals/current audience.


1) Tell everyone what, if any, controversial subject matters/factors that you feel are edgy, but would either be appropriate in WWE ... or should be Off-Limits in WWE. Briefly elaborate your thoughts as to WHY you feel those subject matters are appropriate or inappropriate.

These topics could include:

Excessive Violence
Foul Language
Blood
Drug References / Use
Violence against Women (can include Rape)
Discrimination against Women- Misogyny
Sexuality- Implied Sex
Nudity
Pregnancy
Racial Violence / Discrimination issues
Racial Stereotypes
LGBT characters / Relationships / Stereotypes
Murder
Suicide or Self-Harm
Religion
Politics (ie: character preaching Ultra-Conservative or Liberal Views)
Incestual Relationships
Crime- Stealing



2) How would you take a current or recent WWE storyline/program and alter it to fit your standards of tolerance .... with the goal of generating as much interest as possible in the storyline/program and ultimately, with the goal of obtaining higher ticket sales/PPV buys for the program.


And don't worry, I'm going to be chiming in as well.

But if I have ever had an interest in a thread and seeing what YOU would do if in total charge of Creative with a single recent storyline/program, this would be it. We may have some hot debate in here.
 
As far as possible. I'd try to get away with whatever I could without the FCC taking a shit on the WWE, and maybe even a little bit past there. More sex, more violence, mature storyline themes, drug references, profanity, man I'd do anything I could. Not just for the sake of being outrageous like the Attitude Era, though, I'd try to concentrate the controversy into storylines that actually make sense, or basically what ECW did in the 90s. I'd introduce some real hard hitting writing into the storylines, instead of the tired old "I'm a good guy, you're a bad guy, let's fight!" I'm talking about racism, drug addiction, pregnancy, the whole nine fuckin' yards.

It's time the WWE stop catering to children. They aren't going to be the ones forking over fifty dollars for your PPVs.
 
I just feel like going through your list and deciding what I wouldn't mind seeing.
Excessive Violence
Kind of the point of wrestling. Why should we care if see 'excessive violence'?

Foul Language
Ha, if someone stopped watching over this I would love to meet them.

While blood isn't needed, there's nothing wrong with it used sparingly - some matches have definitely been intensified by the use of blood.

Violence against Women (can include Rape)
I'd stop watching if they had a real rape storyline, not entertaining in any way. But physical violence, in wrestling, wouldn't bother me. I don't care about seeing men/women wrestle each other. It's generally boring and pointless, but it wouldn't offend me.
Discrimination against Women- Misogyny
Compared to the equality of the sexes they have now? Although to be fair, women also get away with a lot more than men would, so it works both ways.

Sexuality- Implied Sex
Not sure why this would be inappropriate to people, could be used to help storylines.

I don't think this is necessary in any way. While I wouldn't stop watching the product because of this, nudity seems like a really big, unneccesary step. Unless it's Shawn Michaels naked.

Pregnancy
The Lita/Kane/Snitsky storyline was in bad taste, so if it ended like that I wouldn't like to see it.

Racial Violence / Discrimination issues
I wouldn't find this entertaining, but I wouldn't stop watching over it. It depends on how it was handled - how would the racist be viewed? Who would people side with? And how far they went with the actual racism.

Racial Stereotypes
They can be quite funny, if they're handled correctly and aren't serious.

LGBT characters / Relationships / Stereotypes
Hasn't this been done before anyway?

If I didn't like the wrestler, sounds like an interesting way to get rid of someone actually. If they're leaving, I mean.

I'd probably laugh at this, emotions could run high which makes for great matches and audiences.

Politics (ie: character preaching Ultra-Conservative or Liberal Views)
Again, people get passionate about this so I'd love to see it.
 
technically the WWE can do whatever they want without worrying about the FCC....as the FCC only governs network TV, not cable TV....Cable TV's limits are imposed by that cables station's standards and broadcast manager......a good example of this is FX....they have to keep it clean until 10:00 at night, then its their rules that come into play.......after 10:00 they can show sex,violence and cussing....

the only thing WWE would have to worry about would be the PTC but they dont have much say in it either....they're a group and have no real control over what can be shown on TV, they just have their opinions.......
 
Sidious, this is professional wrestling. Almost nothing is out of bounds as long as its allowed on television. You can touch any subject and be as over the top as you want. I honestly would say that I would do what TNA is doing right now over on Impact right now, because that is what I like to see. Over the top, over exaggerated content, without the sexual raunchiness of the Attitude Era of the WWE.

I would use more controversial content though such as drug use, kidnapping, terrorism, torture, politics, relationships, money, homosexuality, racism, crime, but all in good taste (lol). Think of how Law & Order pushes their content for their genre as far as what they say and do. I would implement more mature themes. It would be TV-14 DLV. Words such as “ass”, “bitch”, “bastard” will be used, but they will be used sparingly and in good taste. I do not want to push children away, but I do not want to necessarily target them either. I want adults and non-wrestling fans to watch, because I will have subjects that people will be interested in. Heels will be very devious.

No puppies, no mud fights, none of that. That is a big turn off for me on a WRESTLING show.
 
I am going to propose something that I proposed on another forum all the way back at Mania 25. I was absolutely scolded for it back then, and may be here as well .... but I stand by my decision that it would have absolutely intensified the Hell out of this feud, and would have driven viewer interest through the roof.

I can't get any good video clip of this from YT, as WWE likely had all of the clips removed. But I did find this to jog everyone's memory of the segment, and get it fresh in everyone's minds again.

[YOUTUBE]1Zb8eAvnzmY[/YOUTUBE]


Now, as most have gathered by now, I am a HUGE envelope pusher, as I truly feel that "Controversy Does indeed Create Cash".

What I would have done differently in the segment is turned the heat up even more. While Triple H was handcuffed to the ring post, and while Stephanie was unconscious from the RKO .... I would have had Orton go ahead and kiss Stephanie to infuriate Triple H. Then, Orton would look up with the twisted look on his face and give a somewhat sick smile.

However, I wouldn't have stopped there.

Instead, I would have had Orton stoop down, and do a quick fondling of Stephanie's breasts .... and then would have had Hunter lose all control. Then, Orton could have looked up with the most evil grin on his face I could get out of the guy ... proud of his accomplishment.

Why? Because it would have absolutely intensified the confrontation to the boiling point. Which in my view, would have only sold more PPV's.

It's absolutely hard to believe that the Orton of today is actually the same Orton that participated in this angle, even done the way WWE actually scripted it.


Sidious, this is professional wrestling. Almost nothing is out of bounds as long as its allowed on television. You can touch any subject and be as over the top as you want. I honestly would say that I would do what TNA is doing right now over on Impact right now, because that is what I like to see. Over the top, over exaggerated content, without the sexual raunchiness of the Attitude Era of the WWE.

I would use more controversial content though such as drug use, kidnapping, terrorism, torture, politics, relationships, money, homosexuality, racism, crime, but all in good taste (lol). Think of how Law & Order pushes their content for their genre as far as what they say and do. I would implement more mature themes. It would be TV-14 DLV. Words such as “ass”, “bitch”, “bastard” will be used, but they will be used sparingly and in good taste. I do not want to push children away, but I do not want to necessarily target them either. I want adults and non-wrestling fans to watch, because I will have subjects that people will be interested in. Heels will be very devious.

No puppies, no mud fights, none of that. That is a big turn off for me on a WRESTLING show.

I would love to have you on my Creative Team.
 
See, I'm not sure it's necessary for one man to grab another man's actual wife's breasts just to infuriate him. A kiss would definitely suffice as heat enough. See, for me, I do have a line to be drawn, because some stuff is just over the top for the sake of being over the top.

I am not a believer in safe programming, nor have I ever been. I change my sig often, but for those that don't know, I am a comedian and student in radio broadcasting and thus am drawn to great mic work and controversy stemming from words. That comes a lot from creativity and having free reign to what is said. However, the line is drawn when angles come off as actual hate crimes (whites attack blacks out of racism, gay bashing, etc.) I also think rape and violent sexual acts have no place on a wrestling show, but love triangles and sexual innuendo might be ok.

I do caution that any change must be gradual. In attending RAW monday, I saw a LOT of kids there and not all people think like I do in that TV shouldnt' teach your kids right and wrong, YOU SHOULD. Therefore, some parents won't let kids watch "bitches" wrestle or "assholes" fight. I find nothing wrong with most language, but others do, and thus, it has to be eased in, just as this generation of Cena drawn in kids age and get tired of wrestling like Hulkamaniacs did, if it moves gradually, that is good.

I will say that some things from the attitude era need to NEVER come back. Attacking a man at his dad's funeral, mocking a family death in that way, overt racism from the beginning of the era, among other things cannot return. The storylines that worked best from that era were ones that made sense to people (man against boss, strange relationship between strained brothers, odd friendships and alliances done for greater good, love triangles and seeking effection from the opposite sex, etc.). These things could have a place in pushing the envelope a bit, but it doesn't have to go as far as the attitude era to be good programming. Remember that the core idea of professional wrestling is 2 people fake fighting to solve a fake conflict, but for the audience to buy the reason why two competitors are not happy with each other and want to see them settle their differences in ring. You also want the audience to have a clear bias to one wrestler and want that one to win and the other to lose. In that way, if your guy wins, you are very excited, but if he loses, especially by questionable means, you hope your guy seeks retribution as you are angry with this turn of events.

So conclusion, push the envelope, but don't blow it up. Get creative but don't think like a horny 16 year old. Dont' be afraid of blood, but don't overuse it either. Anything in moderation and dont' go too over the top. Creativity and human emotion over raunchiness and disgustiness.
 
I would like to see the product more edgier as well. It didn't mind me that the words "bitch", "ass", and "bastard". These are words I bet the wrestlers use everyday and even some of the young fans out there so I don't see any problem with it. They had the Katie Lea/Paul incest angle ready but they didn't pull the trigger on it due to the PG rating. There should be a little more violence towards women because they are in the wrestling ring just as the men are. More edgier storylines should be thought of and executed without going too far so they won't have the FCC crawling all over them.

I can see why they want to target kids but those kids will grow up to be unhappy adults if the product they are seeing then is the same product they are seeing now. I don't know what the main demographic is for RAW viewers but they need to target around the 18-35 age because that is who is mainly buying PPV's.
 
This is how I would write a storyline if WWE was TV-14:

Well how I would start it out is, I would bring in some new wrestlers out of nowhere and they start just doing hardcore shit. Destroying WWE property, taking down the guest GM, beating the hell out of anyone they come across. Everyone's all shocked at the depravity of it. Cena comes over to fight them, and you think he's gonna go all "supercena" and instead and they destroy him. He's out for months.

Triple H and Shawn Michaels watch as the chaos unfolds as everyone's getting taken out backstage, wrestling matches can't even function they're constantly being interfered with by the new guys, it's just complete chaos. Even one of the divas gets powerbombed through a table by these new villains. And so then DX is like "you want a war you GOT a war!" and they start unifying all of the faces around them. They even convert some of the heels to their side, because the heels have been getting their asses kicked too and they're pissed.

Then at whatever PPV is next they hold a hardcore match with like 7 on 7, faces versus the new destroyers and I would have blood, and weapons, and fights all over the arena. And just when it looks like the new destroyers are going to win the match and all hope is lost, Stone Cold and The Rock pop up out of nowhere and start doing their respectives moves and taunts. This gives the faces just enough time to mount a counter attack to which they finally beat the villains who had been causing so much chaos.



So that's how I'd do a TV-14 storyline for WWE, and it's what I expect from the top wrestling company in the whole world. More hardcore, scary evil villains(not cheered by audience), and crazy shit going down all the time making you wonder what the heck's gonna happen next.
 
I'd have the heel wrestlers really get into the fans faces, like the dudley boyz did on ecw. Man the fans hated them but they were into their promos. Eric Bischoff and Paul Heyman were great at pushing the envelope. I'd hire these 2 and russo as my writers. Could you imagine the sick fucked up shit these guys could come up with? Wasn't it Paul Heyman himself who suggested an incest angle saying that "Steph's baby was vince's"? Imagine what that storyline would bring.

We need more blood. A hell in a cell match with no blood? Are you fuckin kiddin me!!!!!!!.

A rape storyline would be interesting.

Although, I would stay clear of suicide due to Benoit, Mike Awesome, etc. We don't need any lawsuits against WWE. Although, didn't Joey Styles once comment on Mike Awesome's attempted suicide on ECW One Night Stand when he said he "wish he didn't fail to take his own life" or something to that degree ... and after that Awesome killed himself?

Anyone remember the dead dad storyline-- with Bossman and Big Show? That was interesting and got results.

Instead of this "Hero Cena", I'd have him rapping on the fans calling them names and stuff. The Dudleyz did it. I think Cena could get just as much heat as them ... maybe even more.
 
First of all, my booking philosophy would be "fake sport" and I'd develop the product in that direction--look like ESPN Pro Wrestling would look if wrestling were real.

--Lance Storm hosting a SportsCenter/NFL Sunday type studio show
--short time limit matches that end in a draw regularly (conflicts resolve on PPV)
--hard and fast rules about who is World-Title eligible and why
--some sort of "team competition" for the undercard
--lower-card tag teams (Cryme Time) regularly beating thrown-together teams (spin the wheel--Eric Escobar and Finlay, come on down!)

First rule of thumb: everything is eventually resolved with an ass-whuppin.
Second rule of thumb: evil must eventually get its ass kicked.

So, Montana Mike slapped Dakota Dave's wife--your main event. Montana Mike kidnapped and disfigured Dakota Dave's wife--Hell In a Cell just isn't going to make that right. Montana Mike can win tonight against Dakota Dave, but there has to be payback somehow on Montana Mike.

Going through the list:

1. Excessive Violence--Excessive in kind is fine. Excessive in number is not. Post-Benoit, I'm inclined to use a rule of thumb of one incredibly violent act per confrontation, and sell it like a gunshot wound. I'd go so far as to say if someone takes an unprotected chair shot due to miscommunication, "call an audible" and do a stretcher job.

Don't set someone on fire one week and then have them come back the next week with a band-aid on. Don't have someone take five chairshots without a run-in or security dragging the opponent away, and without giving them a kayfabe broken forearm or something.

On this note, I'd defend the ORton-Cena iron man match given the established rules. Given the rules, Orton was entitled to blow up Cena with pyro. On the other hand, stopping the bleeding is a good medical idea. I forget if the 60-minute clock was stopped, though. It should have been.

2. Foul Language--put Raw on a 15- or 20- second talk-radio style delay and curse your ********ing motherfucking bitch ass off. Your character's leeway may vary, especially if your median fan is 12, John Cena.

3. Blood. Blood follows violence. But, as always, don't overdo it. I still remember Lesnar smearing Hogan's blood across his chest after their match. That was awesome, but I don't think it would have been as awesome if someone bladed on Smackdown every week that year. On the other hand, if Hogan hadn't bladed, it wouldn't be memorable at all.

4. Drug References / Use. Athletes use drugs. They shouldn't, and see the Cena Rule above about your fanbases' median age. But some athletes do, and some talk about it in public. Is it a reason to kick their ass? If not, minimize it.

5. Violence against Women (can include Rape). Matter of degree. If it's a level of violation that can be avenged with an asswhuppin, then ok. I like your pushing the Orton-Stephanie story to fondling her breasts. That would have definitely added more heat. The Dudleys putting women through tables got them huge heat at first, because it didn't happen all the time.

6. Discrimination against Women- Misogyny. Not sure what we mean here. First and second rules of thumb apply. Alfie Douchebag screws women and then doesn't call anymore, and Valiant Victor wants to kick his ass after Victor's sister gets pumped-and-dumped? Go for it.

7. Sexuality- Implied Sex. How does this create drama that you can settle in the ring? Vince getting serviced by Stacy Kiebler and Torrie Wilson--only if it plays into a streetfight with Mama's Boy Shane or Stacy's boyfriend Test or something like that.

8. Nudity--Skip it. Even the horniest teenaged boy isn't going to pay for a PPV to see naked boobies. It's a big, dirty, nasty, mostly free Internet.

9. Pregnancy--The only way this could be settled in the ring is a "who's the daddy" angle, and most of those are awful. I'm not saying "no pregnancy stories" as a rule, but I'm looking at that storyline really skeptically.

10. Racial Violence / Discrimination issues. I could see a character or possibly even a faction whose focus was hatred of a particular race. But be really careful--I don't want this to be the focus of the show. And that character will never be able to have a face turn in this day and age.

11. Racial Stereotypes--try to use a light touch, and do a re-think every few years on whether a stereotypical character is still okay. In my friend's SD v Raw 2010, I completely repackage Umaga as being motivated by erasing cartoon stereotypes of Samoans like, for example, the original Umaga character.

12. LGBT characters / Relationships / Stereotypes. Wouldn't make a rule against it, but I'd want to be careful that a gay face fighting a gay-baiting heel would actually get cheered, and a gay heel would get booed for something besides being a huge flaming ***. More Orlando Jordan, less Rico.

13. Murder. Suicide or Self-Harm. Err, no. These problems are unlikely to be fixed by even the most thorough and complete ass-kicking.

14. Religion. I could see a born-again Christian character, or a Christian rock type character, but there is a big downside risk.

15. Politics (ie: character preaching Ultra-Conservative or Liberal Views). Go for it.

16. Incestual Relationships. Again, unlikely to be fixed with an ass-kicking.

17. Crime- Stealing. The feud where the Dudleys stole Jericho's/Christian's ass-cream was awesome. Benoit stealing Angle's gold medals.
 
Excessive Violence
Wrestling is violent in general. Depending upon the person's view of excessive. I'm not going to be feeding people through wood chippers on the show.

Foul Language
Not a big deal. As long as I can fly under the FCC Radar it's cool.

Blood
In special circumstances. Blood used to mean something, then everyone was bleeding all the time. Everyone can't be Ric Flair, who gigs off of a stiff wind.

Drug References / Use
Drugs aren't really a necessity in wrestling. References are fine though(i.e. the Hardy/Punk Storyline). If you want to see real drugs on the show, we can just rehire Scott Steiner, and show the inside of his bags...:) (Kidding, please no hate mail)

Violence against Women (can include Rape)
Rape is a no. However much that may make the feud more personal and violent, it's still not a needed evil. However hitting a woman for the show, by accident or otherwise is permissible, as long as everyone doesn't start doing it.

Discrimination against Women- Misogyny
Perfectly OK.

Sexuality- Implied Sex
Again, nothing holding you back here.

Nudity
Couple problems with this one, first being the FCC. Second being, I'm not really sure where this would fit in a wrestling show. There are several other outlets to get this from.

Pregnancy
If the person in question is actually pregnant, and will not be giving birth to a hand. Also as long as you don't have a miscarriage in the ring. That's in poor taste, no matter who's fault it is.

Racial Violence / Discrimination issues
It's part of life, and if you're going to make it realistic, its going to happen atleast once.

Racial Stereotypes
As long as it is done to all races equally. Although I would be interested in seeing how a gimmick based on the good stereotypes would play out.

Murder
Murder should not occur on a wrestling show. They will eventually return, and unless I'm booking Jesus, it's not believable.

Suicide or Self-Harm
Self-Harm is fine, it worked for the Mankind character. Suicide is again pointless, even if it's several failed attempts.

Religion
As long as the God of your choice is not your tag partner it's fine.

Politics (ie: character preaching Ultra-Conservative or Liberal Views)
That's fine.

Incestual Relationships
No, I don't really see how this would help further anything.
"I'm going to take your title!"
"You don't stand a chance against me and my lover, who is also my kinfolk!"
Doesn't really work.

Crime- Stealing
Gimmick depending.
 
Honestly, my views on what I think is acceptable in WWE is the edgier the better. Hell, I wouldn't give a shit if RAW was on at 11PM on FX so they could do more insane shit than they ever have before. I personally am a huge fan of the attitude era, and even as a kid who was around 10 years old I just wanted more and more and more. Nothing could satisfy my craving for raunchy, lewd, jaw-dropping television content.

However, my views are a little bit left field, I can't really think of any line I'd like to see drawn. It's almost impossible to offend me with anything. I've seen it all, I know what's out there in the world, why not incorporate it into this entertainment form? Given, I could certainly do without all the corny shit they had during the attitude era. There was plenty of it. But there were certain things in the attitude era that just made your jaw drop in awe of what you were seeing. I couldn't get enough of that. This is the whole reason that I literally NEVER watch WWE anymore, for any reason, ever. I never get even one ounce, one smidge, of the controversial shit I used to get on WWE programming.

What ever happened to Miss Kitty showing her tits on pay per view (so yes, I'm all for nudity. Keep it coming) ? What happened to Stone Cold dropping HHH like 25 feet down in a limousine to concrete? It was that kind of shit that kept me watching.

So, all in all, there would be no fucking line for me. It would have to make some sense of course, I'm not saying I would accept just any old storylines as long as they were controversial. I'm not going to go so far as to say they'd have to be in "good taste". Fuck, bad taste? Bring that shit on. Rape, incest, murder, blood, racism, hate crimes, kidnappings, pregnancy, it's all good. WHY HASN'T ANYONE EVER BROUGHT IN A FUCKING GUN TO A NO HOLDS BARRED/STREET FIGHT yet? It's always "I'm going to do anything I can to end your career and hopefully your life". Well it's pretty simple. Shoot the fucker. I think that would be an AWESOME work if played right.

Sadly, we'll never see any of it.
 
I disagree with any comments against anything being too much, I saw someone disagree with nudity when it's natural to be nude and society has made it a "bad" thing to be naked
I think we should have nudist protestors out on Raw speaking out against clothes

I do think we should have rape storylines


3 main storylines I've wanted to see:

1. Incest storyline (which Vince was gonna do)

2. Rape storyline (it's not offensive, it happens, if it can be in a movie get over it being on tv)

3. KKK storyline (now i'm black so dont go there on this being offensive either, they shouldve done this when The Nation of Domination was still around)

I think those three storylines would boost ratings

I'd watch and get a kick out of each one.

I dont think anything's too far

I dont think anything's offensive and yes anything can be entertaining & funny

Some of the greatest comedians will say the same thing

A good storyline is suppose to dig deep into your emotions and because we'll always have the stuck up party pooper who has to say "oh thats too much" it'll always work, like it or not, I say if it's like that to where you cant enjoy it for what it is because it's "too much" then you can either grow up and get over it cause it's entertainment or stop watching

but either way, it's a good thing to go overboard


When are we gonna have a ladder match with a ***** at the top?
or two pregnant women going at it in a cage?
how bout a forced abortion match?



We could never do things we wanted though after some ppl got offended at the Sandman crucifition thing with barbed wire and stuff



I think it sucks ppl cant be more open


I'd like to have a cannibal in the WWE

and a stripper that actually takes it all off (why not, after what Sable & Ashley did)

Maybe we could open Raw with a pair of open legs on the titantron with a vibrator between them and a Diva getting caught with it in the locker room



or maybe we could have them eat shit live on television, i think they'd finally want to join McMahon's kiss my ass club over that. if ppl thought that was something wait till someone eats shit!
 
Im a big fan of the attitude era and in 2006 they had some good stuff as well Does anyone remember how good raw was when edge was on it and all that crazy stuff he was doing with lita. That was entertaining and partly the reason why i am an Edgehead.

Rape i dont think should be used in any storyline in the wwe, i think that is just going too far. Racism maybe but world elite have something like that going on in TNA already. Nudity maybe but not often. Sexual innuendo i think would be good. Blood is a must but again not to be used all the time. WEAPONS, they have to start using different weapons. Remember Extreme Rules this year, Tommy Dreamer vs Christian vs Swagger. The whole match was bamboo sticks and trash cans that are made of aluminum foil. The point is think about all the different angles they could use if they got rid of the PG era.

Nowadays they just fight for the title and revive old rivalries like Edge vs Cena, Cena vs Orton, triple h vs orton etc. Some of the kids probably dont even understand what is going on half the time and some arent even allowed to watch. The main target is ages 18 - 35 since they pay for pay-per-views and most viewers are in that age group.
 
I disagree with any comments against anything being too much, I saw someone disagree with nudity when it's natural to be nude and society has made it a "bad" thing to be naked
I think we should have nudist protestors out on Raw speaking out against clothes

It may be 'natural' to be naked, but what the hell does it have to do with wrestling? They're not exactly going to wrestle nude, are they? It'd turn WWE into a porn type show, which would NOT be a good thing.

2. Rape storyline (it's not offensive, it happens, if it can be in a movie get over it being on tv)

You sound like a lovely person. How do you think WWE would handle a rape storyline? Here's my guess - not very well. And I'm very sure people, especially those who may have experience of it, don't want to sit through something where this is a major part of the viewing. It'd ruin the 'entertainment'.


I think those three storylines would boost ratings

How? You'd turn quite a lot of women off with a rape story, and a lot of ethnic minorities off with a 'KKK' storyline, depending on how it was done. I can't see it increasing ratings in any major way at all.


A good storyline is suppose to dig deep into your emotions and because we'll always have the stuck up party pooper who has to say "oh thats too much" it'll always work, like it or not, I say if it's like that to where you cant enjoy it for what it is because it's "too much" then you can either grow up and get over it cause it's entertainment or stop watching

I don't find the KKK or rape to be overly entertaining, myself.
 
Excessive Violence

Has to be reserved for some specific cases. What happens with wrestling is, something works, and it starts becoming more and more common, and then it gets overused to the point where it's no longer impressive. Examples of which include:

Unsanctioned matches - HHH vs Michaels was terrific, but the idea of street fights and unsanctioned matches have become too commonplace and lost all meaning once the competing general manager concept went away.

Foul Language

See above. Foul language got overused in the late 90's. Remember the South Park episode about the world "Shit?" After a while the envelope had to be pushed so far it meant nothing. I remember on Fresh Prince of Bel Air when Uncle Phil used the word "ass" in a passionate outburst. You knew it meant something. In the WWE, Austin telling someone he's "whip their ass" ellicited an "ohhhhh" from the crowd and a gawk by Michael "KKK" Hayes. Then Billy Gunn became known as "Mr. Ass." It was whatever.

Blood

I agree that it has to be in certain circumstances. I remember back to Wrestlemania 8 (as I always do) and the fact that the best two matches of the night involved blood. Hart vs Piper and Savage vs Flair. In those matches, it made sense. It advanced a story. Blood at the right times can work wonders. Remember Rocky 4 when Rocky finally cut Drago, and Al Bandiro flipped a shit? "He's CUT! HE'S CUT! The Russian's cut and it's a BAD cut!" Then Tony in the corner "you cut him, you hurt him! You see? He's not a machine! He's a man!" Brilliant use of blood there, WWE used to be able to get that right. Guys like The Sandman ruined it.

Drug References / Use

It has to be subtle. Snoop hosting Raw a few weeks ago and what you swore was pot smoke turned out to be aromatherapy candles - you can't tell me you didn't laugh at that. RVD 4:20? Classic work. And Punk's promo on Hardy? Just let art imitate life here, and don't run storylines of people being on drugs when they're not.

Violence against Women (can include Rape)

Rape is a total no, and anyone who suggests otherwise has problems. Go watch a fucking movie if you want to see this. When did rape become an acceptable art form? It's pissing me off.

The positive that emerges from a woman getting into a violent altercation with a man is that it can end up making the woman look strong. Chyna and Lita both had that issue (Chyna with Eddie, Lita with Kane) and both emerged looking like tough, strong women.

Discrimination against Women- Misogyny

Wrestling has never had an issue with discrimination against ANYBODY.

Sexuality- Implied Sex

Some of the funniest moments in wrestling, such as Val Venis's "Saving Ryan's Privates" promo, Sexual Chocolate, and Stephanie walking in on Triple H showing Trish the hammerlock, were just epic wins. No issues with it as long as it's subtle and humorous or advances a story.

Nudity

Teasing nudity was always fun, and the occassional Playboy spread was the payoff. I had to trade seeing Mae Young's bare breasts in order to see Stacy Carter's. SOOOO not worth it. But I still have my Torrie Wilson Playboy. Chea.

Pregnancy

The miscarriage angle was done to death (pardon the pun) and was useless. But the angle in ECW with Francine and who's baby she was having (or was it Dawn Marie? I dunno, I didn't watch public access) between Tommy and Sandman or whatnot, that was VERY well done. Loved it. I'd like to be involved in an angle like that with Katie Lea Burchill. Only here's the kicker - I ACTUALLY get her pregnant. Thoughts? No? Anyone?

Racial Violence / Discrimination issues

Nation of Domination worked. LAX worked. You're bound to offend people, but there's a way to do it quasi-tastefully.

Racial Stereotypes

Again, no big shock in pro wrestling. Just ask "Cryme Tyme."

Murder

One of the worst angle ever was Undertaker burying Paul Bearer in cement. It's just not something we'll buy.

Suicide or Self-Harm

Not a fan.

Religion

It never works well, though. Jake Roberts and Golddust didn't get over with the bible thumper angles, and yes, the God as tag team partner was abysmal. A crucifixion angle cost ECW, well, Angle. So no on that.

Politics (ie: character preaching Ultra-Conservative or Liberal Views)

Bob Backlund as a raving conservative lunatic was hilarious.

Incestual Relationships

Fans will see right through this, and fans from Alabama and Kentucky will be offended because "they're not doing it right."

Crime- Stealing

Title belts still get stolen, and Cryme Tyme is quite funny. So yeah.
 
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A lot of very thoughtful responses ... to the first part of the question. However, there is a second part, which I would really like to see some responses to:


2) How would you take a current or recent WWE storyline/program and alter it to fit your standards of tolerance .... with the goal of generating as much interest as possible in the storyline/program and ultimately, with the goal of obtaining higher ticket sales/PPV buys for the program.


I see so many fans who criticize the WWE's current product, yet when push comes to shove, they don't put their money where their mouth is and provide any of their own suggestions on what they would do.

Vince McMahon has often said that "wrestling fans don't know what they want". Here is your chance to prove to everyone that you do know what you want.

So if we could hear some proposals on one current or recent WWE storyline you would change to fit your own personal standards, that would be great. I suggested mine earlier ... and I was ridiculed endlessly for it on another forum, with Randy Orton DDT'ing an unconscious Stephanie McMahon, and actually molesting her breasts to absolutely enrage Triple H to the point of no return in that segment leading up to Mania.

I don't care if I was ridiculed for that. I firmly stand behind my belief that this would have absolutely took that feud to a whole new intensity and would have been the most heated Main Event in probably Wrestlemania History, given how personal it was.

But, I am going to go back and provide my thoughts on each of the topics, since I fulfilled the second part of the question.




Like I said, as a Creative Writer (and assuming I would have a boss very supportive of my style), I would have a very high tolerance for pushing the envelope. I am very big on bringing out human emotions in storylines. Because the more that is done, the more vested and connected my viewers would become with my characters and storylines. There will be good times. There will be times that make people angry. And then there would be other times that may make people cry.

But bringing out emotions in people, and getting them out of this state of apathy that they have been in for a number of years now, thanks to the current product, is my primary goal.

And again, it is also important to know going into this thing that I have the expectation that the viewers of the program with which these topics would be covered (Raw) would be a more mature audience, that understands that what they are seeing is an Action/Drama show, just like any other you would see on TV. So this particular product would be no different than what one might see on a show like CSI, 24, or other shows with occasional violent tendencies and storylines.

With that in mind, let's address some of these:


Excessive Violence

What I consider "Excessive Violence" would be absolutely brutal beatings that would likely lay a superstar in a pool of blood. This includes use of weapons like baseball bats, maybe even knives, and such.

I have no problem with occasional "excessive violence" for a major angle, however it can not be done with frequency. If done with frequency, it loses its muster and the shock value wears off on the audience. It loses its impact. But to create an intense, heated storyline, absolutely.


Foul Language

This one is a no-brainer for me. Of course. And since the FCC does not apply to cable, I am even more in support of it. But the content rating would be affected if I have F-bombs dropped on the show, and likely earn an "R" rating, so I would have to be careful not to have that word used. But any of the others ... sure.



Along with violence, as long as it isn't done repeatedly. Also, since I am not a fan of blading, I would recommend the use of blood capsules on the time blood is used. And this information would be kept under strict lock and key, because I know our Internet savages would have a fit if wrestlers weren't actually slicing their own heads open with blades, and scarring themselves for life.

Drug References / Use

I thought the subtle reference Snoop Dogg was using was hysterical when Raw had to take a quick time-out a few weeks back.

Certainly have no issues with the occasional superstar blasting another for drug use (kayfabe). I'm sure RVD would love to participate in a storyline like this.

Also, I think it could be a great downfall storyline for a superstar who is down on his luck to be seen with a dealer purchasing drugs ... while his performance falls in the ring.

Violence against Women (can include Rape)

I know IC has essentially called anyone who advocates Rape on TV as "having something wrong with them". So I guess, unfortunately that's me.

But ... I will say this. This would be something probably done only once in a ten year span. And the outcome would be the guy who did it, getting the bloody Hell totally beaten out of him.

The way it would be enacted on TV would probably be a superstar (like Randy Orton --- so perfect for that role) to be seen getting aggressive as far as frisking and kissing a Diva, the Diva starts hitting him and telling him to get off her ..... and then Orton slams the door ... and you can hear the woman screaming for 2-3 seconds.

I don't want an entire rape shown on TV, but as far as an implied rape .... yeah, I would approve it. Again, this is for a more mature audience then what the WWE has today. And like I said, it truly brings emotion to the viewer, and takes them on a roller-coaster ride.

Plus, the end result of the Heel getting completely battered and bloodied for his actions when he and another superstar meet in the ring ... with the Diva getting involved beating the Hell out of Orton as well, would give the angle a payoff.

Controversial? Sure. Would it produce ratings? Absolutely. And hopefully that would spark interest and lead to PPV buys.

Discrimination against Women- Misogyny

Compared to having Rape? Yes. Again, assuming the Heel gets his in the long run. I think it could ultimately lead to producing another Chyna, as well ... to stand up for herself and leave the pig.

Or, we could also do a storyline where McMahon gets sued for sexual harassment, or something of the sort.

Sexuality- Implied Sex

They started to do this with Edge and Lita on the Live Sex Celebration. And they could do it again. Have a guy and a girl in a room together under the covers ... making some pleasurable sounds ... when the door busts open and the Face gets attacked by a Heel. Or vice versa, with the Face attacking a Heel.


Bare butts can be allowed.

The most that would be shown of women though, would be the top of her breasts, not the nipples. In other words, someone could be stripped of her clothes (like Vince had Trish Stratus do back in the early 2000's) for her job, to humiliate her. He had her take off her bra, but she was covered.

So that is pretty much as far as I would go.


Pregnancy

I take no issue with pregnancy angles. I would simply like to see one pregnancy actually come to term. But I think it's a great way for a superstar and a Diva to come together to form a husband/wife team ... or for a team formed between two people who have to form the team because of the child (like a Face Wrestler and a Heel Diva).


Racial Violence / Discrimination issues

Again, as long as the Heel would get theirs in the end, I don't have a problem with it.

You could have both Racist White Heel as well as Racist Black Heel. A German Heel who could be compared to a Nazi, with his views that everyone is inferior to the White Race. The Black Heel, similar to Faarooq, who is angry at Whites for the generations of oppression. Or, the Racist Mexican, who is angry at both Whites and Blacks.

And of course, along with that comes racial hate crimes against other superstars. It could produce some valuable lessons by the end of the storyline, though, and really get people thinking that this kind of thing needs to come to an end in real life.

As far as the Discrimination issue, if it can produce a positive outcome, then sure. It would be a massive way to produce some solid heat for someone.


Racial Stereotypes

I think there is also room for some fun-loving stereotypes like Cryme Tyme, who the fans absolutely loved when they first arrived. The fans are intelligent enough to know it was an act, and they went with it. They cheered on Cryme Tyme stealing things, swindeling people, robbing people, etc. I thought it was hysterical, and loved the fact that they were portrayed as babyfaces .... with the fans responding as such.



LGBT characters / Relationships / Stereotypes

I think there's a place for this, sure.

This was when Goldust was his most over, and the heat was out of this world. So I think there is a place for the obnoxious Heel homosexual, but I also think there's a place for something else never done before.

I personally think maybe it's time, though to reverse the process, and present a positive Gay character to the business. The character would simply be Gay, and not do anything different than any other wrestler does in the ring. No obnoxious stuff whatsoever like a Goldust.

Rather, he could be hated on by the Heels for being Gay. Be a victim of a "bashing", and that would hopefully produce sympathy, so that others on the roster would take up for the guy and get even with the Heels.

Also, Hot Lesbian Action??? Sure. Absolutely. This is a guy's fantasy come true. So in a business with the largest audience being 18-34 males, go for it.


Personally, I think this could be a great way to write someone out of a storyline if they plan on leaving the WWE. I think it's a great symbolic move "signifying the death of their career in the company".

A gun shot, throat slit, poison, etc.

You could benefit by doing a "Who done it" storyline afterwards, which is always good for ratings.



Suicide or Self-Harm

Self-harm, yes. Suicide ... I think attempted suicide is fine, as long as it is used to bring a character out of a rut. You could use this to turn a Heel into a Face. Or could give a "down on his luck" Face a much needed push once he or she "gets better".



One of the touchiest of all questionable topics.

I would not advocate a full onslaught against Religion. However, what Vince did in going into the Church and somewhat mocking the process, with spitting the Holy Water in the air, and challenging God to strike him down .... I take no issue with.

We could have the Ultra Religious Loon character however, similar to those form the Westboro Baptist Church (with the Homosexual stuff excluded however) .... telling people that they are all going to Hell for their sins, the world is going to End, etc.

On the plus side, maybe we could have the Ultra-positive, modern-day religious character around who tries to inspire people. He wouldn't preach or anything, but looks to the Lord for inspiration for what he does. Doesn't feel that the Lord hates anyone, and forgives all. A role-model type character.


Politics (ie: character preaching Ultra-Conservative or Liberal Views)

We could use another campaigner running around like Mr. Backlund ... wanting to start as many wars as possible with other countries. He would provide great interaction with a Middle Eastern babyface character WWE could use down the road. Getting on women's cases for killing babies/fetusues through abortion (would work great with a Pregnancy angle, done at the same time). Kind of portrays Neocons in a bad light.

Or we could have the Ultra Liberal going around and preaching and advocating Socialism, open borders, leniency on criminals, or something of the light.

Politics is always a touchy subject with people, and would be bound to get a reaction one way or another, from the audience.


Incestual Relationships

I personally thought it would have been great if they would have continued this with Paul Burchill and Katie Lea.

And I think it would have been a Hell of a lot better ending to the "Who was Vince's son" storyline if Triple H would have been revealed to be the bastard son-- with he and Stephanie embracing their relationship and playing it up for all its worth.

Obviously, they could have ended the storyline to reveal it was a mistake, like they did anyway, with Hornswoggle, but it would have produced some very interesting television, which would have produced some massive heat.


Crime- Stealing

Why not? That's what the Cryme Tyme vignettes actually featured, and the fans loved it.
 
Imagine a WWE with no PG rating....

1) Tell everyone what, if any, controversial subject matters/factors that you feel are edgy, but would either be appropriate in WWE ... or should be Off-Limits in WWE. Briefly elaborate your thoughts as to WHY you feel those subject matters are appropriate or inappropriate.

These topics could include:

Excessive Violence
Foul Language
Blood
Drug References / Use
Violence against Women (can include Rape)
Discrimination against Women- Misogyny
Sexuality- Implied Sex
Nudity
Pregnancy
Racial Violence / Discrimination issues
Racial Stereotypes
LGBT characters / Relationships / Stereotypes
Murder
Suicide or Self-Harm
Religion
Politics (ie: character preaching Ultra-Conservative or Liberal Views)
Incestual Relationships
Crime- Stealing

I'm personally open to seeing all of these in storylines in WWE. I think if it was booked properly it could make for very entertaining wrestling shows/segments. I believe that if you were to have a wrestler beat down their opponent so unexpectedlly and leave them in a pool of their own blood, it would make for great tv for two reasons :

1. SHOCK VALUE - No one would see it coming from the character. It's kind of like what Kofi did on Raw, no one would have ever expected fun-loving Kofi Kingston to ever do that. Except I would have taken it further. When Orton was hit with the lid, I would have had him be busted open, or maybe instead of that, when Orton went through the table, I would have him cough up some blood. Then they could say Orton received a taste of his own sadistic medicine.

2. REVENUE/ATTACHMENT - More viewers would tune in, and thus, more people would become attached to the characters, thus creating more sales, as more people would invest in the pay per views to see what happens, potentially buy more merchandise to show love for their new favorites, etc, etc.
Also more viewers would garner interest in the characters and tune in way more, so it would not be a one time thing. Due to all the emotions coming from the characters, the viewers in the audience and at home will become attached to the characters. That is why heel turns either crash , or sky rocket. People become so invested into the character that when they start going bad, the people hate them all the more.

Like I said if it were booked properly it would work out quite well. Everyone would be happy. The fans would have entertaining television to watch and the wrestlers/promotions will make more money. I think this is why so many people love TNA right now. They may be a lesser promotion, but they are slowly but steadily building and pushing the envelope bit by bit week by week with some of their storylines.

2) How would you take a current or recent WWE storyline/program and alter it to fit your standards of tolerance .... with the goal of generating as much interest as possible in the storyline/program and ultimately, with the goal of obtaining higher ticket sales/PPV buys for the program.


And don't worry, I'm going to be chiming in as well.

But if I have ever had an interest in a thread and seeing what YOU would do if in total charge of Creative with a single recent storyline/program, this would be it. We may have some hot debate in here.

Okay I'm going to do the same as Sidious here, I'm going to take on the Orton/Triple H feud. Let's say the week he RKO'd Stephanie was the week before Triple H attacked him at home...actually it might have been, I'm not sure. But anyway, here it goes.

Triple H is handcuffed to the ring ropes and as Orton kisses Stephanie he slides out of the ring with her, leaving Triple H there infuriated. After about 10-15 minutes Triple H breaks free of the cuffs , after seeing Orton carry Stephanie to a car, and he gives chase out to the parking lot. He gets pissed, somehow steals the first car he sees by breaking the window open ( so now his fist is bloody just so you know ). He tries to give chase but cannot find them. Suddenly a phone starts ringing in the car Hunter is in. Orton calls and says he planted the phone and wanted him to take that car.
He tells Hunter that he can find Stephanie at ____ Hotel. Hunter shows up to the hotel, breaks in the door, only to find just Stephanie there tied up, and Triple H saves her. Orton calls agains and says Hunter " You're wife may look fine, but I'll have you know I had some fun while she was asleep " Suddenly the tv turns on, and shows Orton's head and Stephanie's sticking out from blankets and all you can see is Orton moving around under the sheets. Stephanie starts crying and Hunter is infuriated and smashes the tv.

Anyway so now the next week, Orton is at home, and instead of Triple H walking around to find Orton, when he finds Orton's " wife " and what appeared to be a teenage daughter, he kidnaps them and calls Orton who comes out looking for Hunter only to find his wife and kid gone. Orton's phone rings, and it's Hunter, he tells Orton to come to ____ Bridge.
Orton shows up only to find Triple H standing there with Orton's wife and child tied up. Triple H has a sledgehammer and Orton runs up, and as Orton does so Triple H points the sledgehammer at the wife and Orton stops. After yelling back and forth, the cops suddenly pull up. As the cops come out with their " guns " pointed at Hunter, Orton runs up and tackles Hunter, they begin to fight, and Orton has Triple H down, and frees his wife and kid. From there Orton says " Shoot this man!! He kidnapped my family!!! He was threatening their life!!! " Suddenly Triple H stands up behind Orton grabs him, and as they both flip over the bridge into the water gun shots are fired.

Then Orton can come out with his lawyers the next week and say he has a restraining order against Triple H. Then the promo can happen where he "forces" Orton into picking him and says " I'm gonna BREAK YOUR NECK!!! "


I feel this would have intensified the storyline so much. It may sound distasteful but imagine all the viewers it could potentially garner. More people would become invested in the characters/storyline, feeling for Triple H for everything that happened to him, and understanding the dramatics of his actions, and wanting revenge. They would despise Orton so much that they would want to see Orton pummeled to the ground. They would want to see him become a bloody mess when Triple H and him get in the ring. I think that it would be great television.

Tell me what you think of that Sidious!
MODERATOR COMMENTS (Lord Sidious)

And I thought I was theatrical. I think some of that stuff is actually waaaay too over-the-top even for my liking. Randy Orton somehow knowing that Triple H is going to bust a window open of the first car he sees ... leading him on a wild goose chase to a hotel where Orton isn't even there .... but then a TV turns on miraculously on it's own and is somehow able to produce a live-shot of Orton and Stephanie under the covers somewhere together.

Especially given the "Game" you have Orton playing, and TV's miraculously turning on by themselves .... I'm not sure if I am watching Raw or if I'm watching Saw 7.

Props for your ideas, SuperCrazy but if I were Head Writer I would have to veto this one and send you back to the drawing board. Keep in mind that I am definitely a proponent of going outside of the arena for storylines, and such ... but they have to be done right and at least, somewhat realistic. Keep at it though!
 
Heres my thoughts on some of the topics.

Excessive Violence :This is a tricky one. You could argue that any sort of Hardcore match is excessive due to the use of weapons when there not really needed. However I would agree that this excessive violence is ok to an extent. For instance Triple H could come down with a sledgehammer and really go to town on say HBK. Leaving him a bloody mess and asserting his dominance.The angle could be that he wanted to finally end the career of HBK. Although i wouldnt do this every week because it would lose impact. I wouldnt have someone come out and just smash a jobber to pieces with a barbed wire bat just because he can, but a barbed wire rope match or a barbed wire wrapped weapon would be ok to use in a match in a pay off between to hardcore icons.Knives are not cool. Knives end lives. Simple. If someone was attacked with a knife and it connected and its look gruesome and the person showed up the next show fine then what sort of impression does that give out?

Foul Language :This dosent really bother me. Although i know it does some people. Certain people should use it to suit there gimmicks. Others shouldnt. I also think maybe using towards another wrestler who is fine with it is ok but maybe not directley to the crowd. Depending on the Promotion and we are talking about WWE,I would not have Jericho come out and call the crowd "Fucking Cock sucking Pricks". However If the Dudleys was to come back and say something along the lines of "You want a war,Youve got a fucking war!" to a rival tag team. Then maybe that would be more acceptable.

Violence against women (Including rape) : Now this is one that is bound to ruffle some feathers. I WOULD have Violence against women. Where as i Wouldnt have someone being raped or even implied she was. However sexual assult could maybe be ok. Imagine it. Randy Orton pissed at losing the title the night before on PPV has an interview backstage where he notices a diva laughing. Thinking shes laughing at him for losing the title he could storm over and grab her,asking if she thinks it funny. He gets rough and the diva starts to cry as Orton kisses her and fondels her tits before punching/slaping her and walking off as the diva slumps to the floor crying her eyes out. Then Later on Orton walks out for his match and as soon as the bell rings half the locker room stand on the stage arms folded staring at Orton as he realizes whats happened he trys to scarper through the crowd,but its to late as the other half of the locker room begin to pour through the crowd. All the wrestlers storm the ring and beat Orton down ending in him being chucked through the backdoor to the pavement outside and being told if he comes back hes a dead man. I think that could be great and lead to a smackdown move for Orton or another heel who they want to switch shows. This could also be stretched over the course of a month with maybe a face being accused by a diva and no one belive the diva. However a month later proof comes out or something along those lines ending in the same beat down.

Drug Use : Implying Cryme tyme sells crack to kids is wrong. But having Punk say something about Hardy maybe getting a little crazy backstage due to him not awnsering a call out is ok. Subtle refrences is cool.

Nudity : I dont really see a problem with like a diva getting spanked or something. But i just dont really see the need for it. (All though it would be sweet to see the divas lol)

Murder,Suicide,Self Harm : Hmm i dont really know about this one myself. Murder is defintley not cool. Suicide would be frowned upon and i dont agree with it. Self Harm is maybe diffrent. Foley smashing himself and making himself bleed to hype himself up is fine. A diva doing it because she isnt a hot as Kelly Kelly is wrong.

Blood : Blood would be ok. Not stupid amounts on a weekly basis but in feud ending matches and Hardcore matches why not. Someone bleeding but a refusal to lose could become an epic moment of courage and bravery. Although every beatdown shouldnt result in someone laying in a pool of there own blood. Once again,ruins impact when someone does actually bleed.

These are just some of my ideas. And yeah i am quite new here. Hey.
 
I just have one problem with "pushing the envelope", imitation.

I saw someone say they would accept the use of a knife in wrestling for excessive violence. There's a huge problem in the UK with kids and teenagers carrying knives around, and using them. So, if this was seen in the WWE, surely the risk of the kids doing it would increase?

Sure, they would see it anywhere in movies ect, but why add to the problem? A lot of teenagers/kids see wrestlers as role models, so they're going to copy them.
 
I just have one problem with "pushing the envelope", imitation.

I saw someone say they would accept the use of a knife in wrestling for excessive violence. There's a huge problem in the UK with kids and teenagers carrying knives around, and using them. So, if this was seen in the WWE, surely the risk of the kids doing it would increase?

Sure, they would see it anywhere in movies ect, but why add to the problem? A lot of teenagers/kids see wrestlers as role models, so they're going to copy them.

I advocated the use of a knife in a heated scenario.

Where as I understand the problem with knives in the UK, the thing you have to keep in mind with this thread is that we are not thinking like "WWE Shareholders" .... and what is necessarily best for Vince McMahon with the way WWE is currently structured.

The product I advocate and have advocated many times (which most people know through my numerous rants), is a 3-tier program with Raw being for older teens and adults, Smackdown being for kids and families, and ECW (which would be renamed) for our niche wrestling audience that would feature just wrestling ... including focus on a Cruiserweight division, without all the storylines and wild characters. And that is because I am of the philosophy that adults who watch wrestling, deserve their own show, tailored to their interests, as well. And I want to keep those particular fans on board as they age.

So needless to say, this scenario would be solely for my Raw program, where the audience is comprised of adults, who understand that what they are watching is a television action/drama ... with storylines that feature elements no different than ones you may see featured in 24 or CSI.
 
For me there'd be two limits as to how far the envelope would be pushed.

The first is 'would doing this contraversial angle add anything to the show or feud? For example; a bloody, violent beatdown for no reason at all would be pointless and thus go no further than the drawing board. However a bloody, violent beatdown for a reason that develops a feud or a wrestler's character would be given the green light. the other would be 'would this contraversial angle still be defined as wrestling?' For example nudity and sexuality are fine, as long its not porn. Excessive violence is fine as long as it's not at CZW levels of insanity.

So as long as there's a reason that a drug addicted wrestler beats, rapes and impregnates his sister, treats her like she's only good for making babies, speaks and acts like a gangsta rapper and beats white people into a bloody pulp for no other reason than having white skin adds to his current feud without it appearing to be an episode of Jerry Springer rather than monday night Raw, then it'd be fine. Unlikely but fine.
 
As a female, I see no good reason to include any reference to rape in a wrestling storyline. Having the offender get beaten up really is not appropriate payback for such a vile act. I'd also stay away from any incest/molestation plots. Too serious and damaging to make light of for feud value. I'd also skip the whole pregnancy/miscarriage type plots.

I'd allow violence, foul language, some blood, sexual innuendo/implied sex, the skimpiest of attire ( like pasties/g-strings), & plot lines of struggling with addiction. Political and religious baiting would be fine. I wouldn't go with racial or GLBT baiting- too controversial and wrestling could never manage to do it any tasteful way (if there even is such a thing..)
There could be intergender wrestling, but males could not just beat up on a female for shock value or cheap heel spots.

I'd push the envelope mainly by making it all less campy. If there were parking lot brawls, no one would be run over by a car & be fine 5 minutes later. A heel couldn't show up at a face's house & attack their family without facing arrest-as in real life. I'd remove those sort of over-the-top situations.

Nothing bugs me more than when a heel like Orton kicks someone in the head outside of a sanctioned match; that's called assault in the real world-so why should I buy that in wrestling? And a wrestler would never, ever have their "lawyers" enter into a storyline or use made up medical conditions..
 
As a female, I see no good reason to include any reference to rape in a wrestling storyline. Having the offender get beaten up really is not appropriate payback for such a vile act. I'd also stay away from any incest/molestation plots. Too serious and damaging to make light of for feud value. I'd also skip the whole pregnancy/miscarriage type plots.

I'd allow violence, foul language, some blood, sexual innuendo/implied sex, the skimpiest of attire ( like pasties/g-strings), & plot lines of struggling with addiction. Political and religious baiting would be fine. I wouldn't go with racial or GLBT baiting- too controversial and wrestling could never manage to do it any tasteful way (if there even is such a thing..)
There could be intergender wrestling, but males could not just beat up on a female for shock value or cheap heel spots.

I'd push the envelope mainly by making it all less campy. If there were parking lot brawls, no one would be run over by a car & be fine 5 minutes later. A heel couldn't show up at a face's house & attack their family without facing arrest-as in real life. I'd remove those sort of over-the-top situations.

Nothing bugs me more than when a heel like Orton kicks someone in the head outside of a sanctioned match; that's called assault in the real world-so why should I buy that in wrestling? And a wrestler would never, ever have their "lawyers" enter into a storyline or use made up medical conditions..


Just about word for word I agree. Pushing the envelope is fine but tearing it open is not.

I don't want rape or anything like that on my wrestling show. That's low brow Vince Russo type shit. I don't want to watch Raw is Porn either. If I want sex I will get it from my wife. If you like to watch sex the Internet is littered with it.

Excessive violence is ok as long as it is not overused. Foul language is ok. Once again as long as it's not overused. Violence against women is ok as long as it leads somewhere. Just having a guy come out the back to kick some woman's ass doesn't work. Blood is ok . Everything else I could do without.

What exactly would be the point of murder or suicide in wrestling?
 

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