How Do You Like Your Orton?

[klunderbunker]

To me, there have been three distinct Randy Orton gimmicks, but for the sake of this we'll ignore the Legend Killer phase of his career. Today, he's known as the Viper. He's borderline crazy and will do whatever he has to do to hold onto the title. He's incredibly violent yet incredibly cunning, making him very deadly.

On the other hand, when he first rose to prominence and beat Benoit at Summerslam 2004, he was the brash young rookie that was so full of himself that he couldn't breathe since there was no more room in his body. However, he backed it up on all levels in the ring. He beat Benoit clean for the title with his finishing move after surviving in the Crossface. Orton was young, athletic, and cocky, but he was awesome.

My question is simple: which was Orton better at. Not which is your favorite, but which was he better at doing? to me, it's the first one. Orton was just flat out awesome back then and had much better matches. Instead of being all slow and methodical, he was having faster paced matches and the RKO came even more out of nowhere than it did now. He was a very good cocky heel and even though he's good today, I'd take the old one. Which do you prefer?

 

[X]

It's got to be the Legend Killer to me. Even despite all of his impressive victories during that brash young rookie stage, he still had a lot of doubters. I remember quite a few people being upset by how quickly this kid was being pushed to the moon. Despite all the shit that Orton gets from people on this site though, he deserves to be where he is right now. He's one of the best heels we've seen in quite a while.

The Legend Killer gimmick though, that just shut up every last doubter of Orton's. Seeing him demolish guys like Foley, and I mean simply destroy, was great for his career, and that patented Foley rub was one of the big reasons I think Orton was able to make that leap to the next level.

Orton's current character...well it's grown a bit stale. He's a damn fine heel, but when faced with doing the same thing for years now, it just gets boring. I'd love to see him start a new feud with someone completely new, who isn't named Triple H or John Cena. Just something new. Anything. Orton has tons of talent, but right now I think he's just grown complacent with his current role in the company, and has stop giving it his all like he used to.

We'll see what the future holds for Randy.

 

[TM Punk]

Legend Killer Orton was the best. Best turn buckle pose EVER! You just wanted to hate him. He had better music, he actually used his athleticism in his matches. And does anyone remember his kick ass pyro? You know, the raining gold sparks falling behind him when he stood on the entrance ramp? Everything about old Orton is better than now.

 

[johnnyblaze3:16]

i liked young rookie orton, when i saw him the first time i just new he had "it" and watched him become just lazy now is it me or does orton look slow and repetitive now it seems like he's got 3 moves the punt the rko and the stomp all the way around the body legacy is better at wrestling then he is

 

[BananaHeel]

Technically speaking, Klunderbunker, you liked the third one not the first one. You mentioned the first one being the Legend Killer. I believe Orton was better playing the arrogant heel then the Viper. Deep down into our psychy we Want Orton to pose again. So in a way we like how he is, but we don't like it at the same time. He's the current WWE Champion. Most of us love his finisher, his look, his mic skills, etc. But his personality is a bit...old now. I swear if he posed again people would CHEER for him. The top heel in the business and people will most likely CHEER for him. Something is amiss.

So in conclusion I have to go with the personality that had the swagger, the confidence, the up and coming charisma that we all knew would culminate into what he is today. The young and brash, the bold and defying, *I'm a Living Statue" Randy Orton.

 

[KevinHarris]

For me i also like the Brash,Cocky Orton I believe that if they ever give orton this gimmick again he will become the new face of the WWE.

Do you think they will ever give orton this gimmick back or will they stick with the Cold,Calculating,Methodical giimick even though it's stale?

 

[gh88us]

the golden sparks need to come back, i mean Legacy its golden, Orton displays such cockiness that he is the perfect heel for WWE. the corner ring pose was killer.

 

[Paradox]

I think that he was better back as the young cocky kid. He just came across better to me than he is today. It wasn't just in the ring, he was better all around in that "gimmick" than he is now. His promo's where a lot better than they are now. He didn't take forever in the ring. Like you said KB the Rko would come out of no where a lot of the time. Like it was a last ditch effort, but. It made it look amazing, because you knew that he could end a match that quickly.

I agree with X that his matches with Foley were great. They did put Orton on to the next level. Though the set of matches that I though solidify him as a ME IMO. Has to be his feud with Taker. Those match Taker brought the past out in Orton. He had some of his best if not his best matches with Taker.

 

[smalltownfan]

I like the Viper better because it shows how much his character has evolved over the years. He learned well from HHH and Flair and he's putting his lessons to very good use. To me, he's the most dangerous wrestler I've seen in the last 20 years because you don't know when he'll strike and you don't know if he'll strike with an RKO, a punt, or breaking an arm in a chair. The Legend Killer and the brash rookie was good but this edition of Orton puts them away.

 

[byrnside]

i feel like the rookie heel and the Legend Killer are one in the same. I loved that Randy Orton. I love a good cocky, arrogant heel. His matches with Foley were incredible, my favorite being at Backlash '04. I'm pretty sure anyone who had doubts about Orton, left that match and knew he was legit. Still one of my favorite matches to watch to this day. Plus I loved his old theme. His new one sucks, plain and simple. I just hope one of these days, after he's held the title for a long while, that RKO stops being paranoid and evolves back into the cocky heel he once was.

 

[school-of-hard-knocks]

Personally, I think that this current gimmick is best suited for him. Legend Killer gimmick was pretty good and it helped elevate him onto the main event scene. But once he got there it was time for him to change. They tried pushing him as a cocky face but that quickly ended because lets face it, he isn't cut out to be a face. People who like Orton like him for who he is, an arrogant young jerk who spits in people's faces, does whatever it takes to win and kicks those he doesn't like in the head.

With that being said Orton needed something that would amplify all of the "bad" things that are good about him. And this current gimmick does a great job at that. And it has made him accepted as the top heel in WWE by the fans.

 

[Blade]

I actually can't choose. They both have their upsides and their downsides, like all gimmicks.
For in ring action, the earlier Orton was pretty good. He hasn't had matches as good as his match with Benoit and Undertaker. But that may have been more because of his opponents than the gimmick. Although, the slowness of his in ring work now makes the RKO that little bit more exciting, I find. And his selling right now is awesome, he knows how to look completely dazed perfectly...
But his promos are much better in the Viper gimmick. They're less forced, as if he's able to tune into the Viper character much easier than the cocky young guy gimmick.

I think he's more credible as a main eventer when he's the viper. While there have been gimmicks like that before, there's no one who's like that right now. And he ads his own Randy Orton style twist to it, and that's why he's so exciting now despite his character seeming so boring.
The done cocky young star thing has been done so very much, especially at the time when Orton was rising through the ranks. Heel Cena, MVP, Kennedy, MNM and now Dolph Ziggler. I know they each had their own variations of the gimmick, but they were all essentially the same. Cocky young guys. Meh.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

My favorite Orton character was "The Viper", however when he was actually legitimately crazy (before they completely ruined the character and had him admit it was a work to get even with Triple H). That was Orton at his absolute best. Probably the best facial reactions of any psycho character in WWE history. And its a shame WWE absolutely ruined the hottest character they had in years.

 

[abkiddo]

i am one of the biggest randy orton fans..i loved him when he busted in on smackdown in the blue and yellow trunks using the overdrive (playmaker) as his finsher..to when he joined evolution and this is where he shined for me being the young cocky kid who actually enjoyed fighting (not running scared as the viper) and then the legend killer gimmick was awesome taking out legend after legend making a shirt for it with the names crossed out..and yes BEST POSE of all time you could just look at the crowd when he did it and everyone was doing it back...but as of now the viper gimmick is horrible we all know hes not crazy and his movements have just begun to look so fake where he trys to be crazier than he really is..and also hes afraid now..i absolutely loved it when cena cut that angry promo against him because i was feeling the same way towards orton..but anyways just had to throw in my 2 cents lol

 

[Doomsday Device]

Ok

I have to say I like todays Viper Orton: Heel, Champion, methodical, and Boss of Legacy.

But I dearly miss the 2005/2006 Orton so much. Not just mentally, but physically the 2006 Orton differs quite alot from our current 2009 Orton. In 2005/2006, Orton had more muscle on him, and a spike haircut. Now, it looks like he slimmed down, added more tattoos (which they look cool) and trimmed his head close to being shaved.

I loved the promo Orton cut on Carlito on Unforgiven 2006 right before his match, it was so funny everytime I see it I have to rewind it a few times.

I miss that cocky human behavior of Orton. I definitely have to choose the Orton from several years back. He seems too predictable now.

 

[image1986]

I disagree with the majority with the whole legend killer choice for several reasons. One the gimmack was good for its time and got orton over in the very beginning but the viper gimmack is the gimmick that made him a 5 time world champion. People may like the brash and cocky version better because he showed more in his aresenal because he wasn't established yet and had to showcase his talent but at this stage of his career its not exactly necessary. The cocky heel thing was done to death and actually inhibited him as a star because after a while. After facing undertaker orton got stale very quickly and loss a lot of momentum. How long could he be a legand killer if there aren't any legends left for him to wrestle? When he was suppose to get the rub from hogan at summerslam 2006 he was still the cocky heel and could have sky rocketed from that match into a main eventer but instead flopped. In 2004 orton was not ready to be world champion and that was proven with his jeff hardy like title reign. Once orton because the violent psychopath we know and love today he became a serious contender for the world title. His grimmack is better now because he differientiates himself from other heels. He doesn't just cheat or does anything to win but he snaps and tries end your career and hurt anyone close to you. Hes unpredictable and comes off as a danger to society which is what a good heel should do. He suppose to be vicious and uncontrolable not flashing and charismatic. Orton now understands a heels role and he plays this role better than his previous one. But I do have to admit I miss the golden sparks lol

 

[Doomsday Device]

Thanks for reminding us of the golden sparks lol

I think it was somewhere during the transition of Legend Killer to Viper Orton that I briefly stopped watching wrestling. I remember once I felt like tuning in to WWE and I see this new Orton with both arms completely tattooed and shorter hair and I was like whoa. So can anyone pinpoint exactly when did Orton start to change into the man he is today. Because I dont know.

 

[The Notorious Big.Pad.Dee]

Orton's cocky young gimmick was great at first, but as he became more established, the cocky gimmick became harder to keep up. The longer someone has been around, the less effect cockiness has on an audience. While I think it was important to move on from the arrogant gimmick, No-one has done quite as well as him since.

As for the viper gimmick, It has allowed Orton to establish himself as the number 1 villian on Raw by a long way. I agree that the promos have become stereotypical and samey (You People don't appreciate Me!), and his matches have become stale and slow ('methodical' knee drops over and over again), but the gimmick itself is perfect for someone who is going to be WWE's main villian for the next 10 years. I just wish they'd let him speed up his matches and bring back the 'unpredictable psycho' part of the gimmick.

But my favourite, would have to be the cocky gimmick. I miss it when Orton used to come out in the suits, Spit in someones face, do the cocky smile and the pose. But while Orton shouldn't go back to that gimmick, I think someone new should be given it.

 

[Mr.Fantastic]

Thanks for reminding us of the golden sparks lol

I think it was somewhere during the transition of Legend Killer to Viper Orton that I briefly stopped watching wrestling. I remember once I felt like tuning in to WWE and I see this new Orton with both arms completely tattooed and shorter hair and I was like whoa. So can anyone pinpoint exactly when did Orton start to change into the man he is today. Because I dont know.

He changed in 2007 when he won the wwe title and later on he cut his hair. In 08 he gets injured at one night stand and when he returned on raw, a few weeks b4 survivor series, he has the new tatts

 

[Doomsday Device]

Thanks for the help Mr Fantastic. I briefly stopped watching right after Wrestlemania 23. Then got back on around January 2008.

Someone else mentioned about how some other superstar should have the young cocky heel gimmick. Doesnt the Miz have that now?

Dont mean to sound off topic, just saying there is someone out there who does have that gimmick today.

 

[Spaceman Spif]

I love The Viper gimmick, it works very well. However I agree with Sidious that they shouldn't have taken the crazy part out it. I loved the look he had, when he beat the shit out of Ric Flair and was staring at Triple H, that was an amazing moment. It was legimate to me, I could have believed it, that he had snapped. He needs more of that. It's like now he is trying to cross the cockiness of rookie Orton with the Legend Killer gimmick. It does work, but does need some more tweaking. Orton as The Viper is one of the best heels to come along in a long time. He's cold, calculating and will do whatever he has to, to keep his title. It's a good gimmick and I think he'll keep it a while, he just needs to do a few things differently maybe.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I love The Viper gimmick, it works very well. However I agree with Sidious that they shouldn't have taken the crazy part out it. I loved the look he had, when he beat the shit out of Ric Flair and was staring at Triple H, that was an amazing moment. It was legimate to me, I could have believed it, that he had snapped. He needs more of that. It's like now he is trying to cross the cockiness of rookie Orton with the Legend Killer gimmick. It does work, but does need some more tweaking. Orton as The Viper is one of the best heels to come along in a long time. He's cold, calculating and will do whatever he has to, to keep his title. It's a good gimmick and I think he'll keep it a while, he just needs to do a few things differently maybe.

Where as he still produces some good facial expressions, those expressions when he attacked Stephanie McMahon was probably his single greatest moment. It was absolutely superb. By far, that was the best psycho performance from any wrestler I have ever seen. And it is a damn shame that they removed one of the most intriguing gimmicks they had in years.

Huge mistake having him ditch that character for a more toned down Viper. Not knowing when he was going to snap was one of the best parts about it. Furthermore, his expression anytime after he would snap was also priceless ... where he would just cover his mouth and look with a blank stare like "Did I really just do that?"

Shame on WWE Creative. They screwed up yet again.

 

[Freddy4190]

I'm torn. I dig the Viper gimmick, I really do. The tattoos, the music, the more methodical, slow walk and whatever makes him seem a tad bit insane and like he does have voices in his head. But.. The Legend Killer gimmick was SO great. I kept wondering what legend he was gonna kill off next. He cut better promos as TLK, he made you hate him 5x more then he can now. The pose, the music, the little smirk he had when he came out, his cocky strut. Everything oozed arrogance. If there was a way he could incoroporate both, i'm sure it could be done, it'd be pretty badass.

 

[Wrath]

I think his Viper gimmick is much much more better. But like a poster above said WWE really ruined a great gimmick. He was an emotionless pshyco who would do anything to anyone if he is provoked and no one could stand up to him because he threatened them to sue. It was a brilliant gimmick until WM. My problem is not Orton losing to Triple H. He was heel and heels generally lose at WM. But after WM Orton was started to book as a coward heel who needs Cody and Ted on his behalf to beat the odds. Ruthless,emotionless Orton gone and a coward Orton came. Because of the booking Orton's character is ruined but if we look at his whole career his best period was from Rumble 09-WM 25.

As for the legend killer gimmick it was good but nothing special. He was just a cocky young heel that we're used to see. Ok his promos,feuds and matches were very good but as for the gimmick it was very ordinary unlike viper. So for me viper gimmick was brilliant and even though creative ruined the gimmick it is still better than legend killer one.

 

[image1986]

I don't think the viper gimmick is ruined completely just watered down a lil. I think the wwe felt that he was coming off as the "cool" heel and was losing heat. So they decided to make him more cowardly picking on weaker foes and manipulating people into doing his dirty work. He's pretty much still playing the same role but less appealing to fans. Think about it he was gain pops for a lot of the psychopath stuff he was doing including punting dibiase and triple h in the head, ddt to stephanie and etc. That is not what he needs as top heel. If he kept going the way he was it would have been a stone cold like face turn.