He's Got The Whole World Falling Asleep

[omariqy]

Wow...just wow. This thread is interesting to say the least. I cannot believe Bray is getting hate so soon. He has been a breath of fresh air and along with the Shield and Cesaro will be the future of this company. Bray Wyatt is unbelievable on the mic, second best to Heyman. He obviously works hard at his gimmick and you can tell. There are plenty of ways they can go with him and the family if WWE are creative enough.

Re his in ring work. He has been hit and miss in my opinion. However he can tell a story in the ring which is the important thing for his character.

Man has talent. Stop hating.

 

[GeneralKarim]

This is getting out of hand. Bray dragging Cena down? Goofy theater ? So Cena acts like an idiot and makes completely boring, unfunny jokes, and that's Bray doing that right? Bray's golden on the mic and Cena is in a rut and cant hang with him cause all Cena knows to say when he is serious is "Ok I'm serious now, you will see a side of me that you have never seen before, unrelated, here's a poopy joke".

 

[Con T.]

This is getting out of hand. Bray dragging Cena down? Goofy theater ? So Cena acts like an idiot and makes completely boring, unfunny jokes, and that's Bray doing that right? Bray's golden on the mic and Cena is in a rut and cant hang with him cause all Cena knows to say when he is serious is "Ok I'm serious now, you will see a side of me that you have never seen before, unrelated, here's a poopy joke".

John Cena is a main event name, who can and should be challenging for the world title. Really, if you think about it, it makes all the sense in the world. Cena lost to Bryan, and now it's time for him to try and avenge his loss.

Bray is holding him down. The fact that he isn't wrestling for the world title (and drawing high buyrates) is hurting the WWE product. But Vince wants to continue pushing his goofy Bray Wyatt character, in spite of what business tells him.

Bray's a ridiculous character. I don't know how to say it any way else. It's like watching very bad high school theater; his delivery is so cartoonish, and he's just not that threatening. If he was, the crowd wouldn't be singing with him; they'd be pissing their pants.

Did Undertaker sing any spiritual hymns? No, he just scared the audience. Bray doesn't scare anyone; it has run its course.

 

[chicagokmc]

John Cena is a main event name, who can and should be challenging for the world title. Really, if you think about it, it makes all the sense in the world. Cena lost to Bryan, and now it's time for him to try and avenge his loss.

Bray is holding him down. The fact that he isn't wrestling for the world title (and drawing high buyrates) is hurting the WWE product. But Vince wants to continue pushing his goofy Bray Wyatt character, in spite of what business tells him.

Bray's a ridiculous character. I don't know how to say it any way else. It's like watching very bad high school theater; his delivery is so cartoonish, and he's just not that threatening. If he was, the crowd wouldn't be singing with him; they'd be pissing their pants.

Did Undertaker sing any spiritual hymns? No, he just scared the audience. Bray doesn't scare anyone; it has run its course.

I don't buy the notion that another wrestler is holding Cena from the title picture. Cena is a made man in the WWE. What I mean by that is he can be inserted into the title picture at any time a storyline needs him there. He isn't some young unproven wrestler. Cena can work other programs like he is with Wyatt and still be a top contender for the title once that situation clears up.

 

[The Butcher]

The trademark fickleness of our breed rears it ugly head again. The Wyatt Family hasn't even been on WWE TV for year yet, and clearly to some he's already gone from a sensation to a sedative. There were similar criticisms of The Shield before they hit the one year mark that labeled them as boring. There's no need for me to do a point by point response to any specific claims about Bray or the Family. It's a matter of taste, and if you don't enjoy them that sucks for you. I will say that it's no coincidence that this comes up in the wake of that interaction with Cena on Monday. It did no one any favors.

 

[Con T.]

I don't buy the notion that another wrestler is holding Cena from the title picture. Cena is a made man in the WWE. What I mean by that is he can be inserted into the title picture at any time a storyline needs him there. He isn't some young unproven wrestler. Cena can work other programs like he is with Wyatt and still be a top contender for the title once that situation clears up.

He's being held back, because Cena's trying to make this character work. Cena's best, most unspoken talent is legitimizing people. He did t for so many people, Punk and Bryan included. Now, he has to keep this character afloat, when he should be going for the title.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

That's the point. Wyatt is saying that the "Hustle, Loyalty, Respect" thing is fake. "Flies in the face of his character"? He is an antagonist for god's sake, he's supposed to "challenge" his nemesis, and he is challenging his authenticity.

So what you are saying is that it is OK to challenge the authenticity of your nemesis in an antagonistic way?

So it's Wyatt's fault that when Cena did actually become "serious", he dropped some ridiculous one-liner about Wyatt not being the "eater of worlds" but being the "eater of the world's largest cinnabon". Cena became "goofy theater" long before Wyatt came along.

Wow, the way you describe this is that it is almost like Cena is using humor to antagonize his overly serious over the top nemesis. But from what other people have said that is "burying" your opponent is wrong. I'm so confused, let's move on:

Would Bray Wyatt be where he is today if his daddy didn't work with Vince for so long? Do we think that Kane gets pissed off that Wyatt is basically just using the same motivation in his programs that Kane used just a couple of years ago?

And I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how Sister Abigail could be a finisher and how the spider crawl isn't the stupidest in ring move since The Worm.

 

[LegendKiller_RKO]

I can't believe I have to take the time to explain this to the OP but here it goes. You say:Am I really supposed to believe that someone with his beliefs would be touring the world with a professional wrestling company? I suppose you must have something against the Undertaker and Kane then. I mean The Undertaker is a "dead man" and Kane is one of the "Devils demons". Why in the world would they be traveling with a wrestling company right? It's called suspending disbelief. You're a wrestling fan. You should be able to do that by now.
As far as Wyatt goes, my personal opinion is he's one of the most interesting things wwe has going right now. He gets a great pop, solid mic work and agile for a big guy. He's also green as grass. Guys 26 years old.

 

[Con T.]

I can't believe I have to take the time to explain this to the OP but here it goes. You say:Am I really supposed to believe that someone with his beliefs would be touring the world with a professional wrestling company? I suppose you must have something against the Undertaker and Kane then. I mean The Undertaker is a "dead man" and Kane is one of the "Devils demons". Why in the world would they be traveling with a wrestling company right? It's called suspending disbelief. You're a wrestling fan. You should be able to do that by now.
As far as Wyatt goes, my personal opinion is he's one of the most interesting things wwe has going right now. He gets a great pop, solid mic work and agile for a big guy. He's also green as grass. Guys 26 years old.

Cena was 26 or so when he was really getting over... 26 when he won his first world title. And there's suspending disbelief, and then this. You have to work in the environment you're given... Cartoon gimmicks are a thing of the past. Stupid things like a backwoods hick who doubles as a cult leader, a dead biker undertaker, or a death dealing doctor who speaks in rhymes and is named Dr. Zeus, are all things of the past.

 

[Kris Benwa]

So what you are saying is that it is OK to challenge the authenticity of your nemesis in an antagonistic way?



Wow, the way you describe this is that it is almost like Cena is using humor to antagonize his overly serious over the top nemesis. But from what other people have said that is "burying" your opponent is wrong. I'm so confused, let's move on:

Would Bray Wyatt be where he is today if his daddy didn't work with Vince for so long? Do we think that Kane gets pissed off that Wyatt is basically just using the same motivation in his programs that Kane used just a couple of years ago?

And I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how Sister Abigail could be a finisher and how the spider crawl isn't the stupidest in ring move since The Worm.

This is just another reason for people to want to hate Cena. I was watching some Invasion stuff on the WWE Network and I don't remember if it was Rock's first appearance since WM but as soon as Booker T walks out Rock goes "Who in the blue hell are you?" He goes on to pretty much call him ******ed for their feud and The Rock does this for everyone he's ever faced and people cheer and cream for the Rock but when Cena jokes it's he's burying everybody and destroying the character. Like someone else said if a few jokes is enough to destroy your character then you shouldn't be working with Cena in the first place. I enjoyed Cena's promo from this past Monday it wasn't bad at all until the Cinnabon line but why would he need to be serious at this point? He's already beaten Wyatt now he has to liberty to joke because he's already beaten him before this is why he'll take the L at Extreme Rules though.

As far as Wyatt himself, he's never moved me either way. There's some of his promos that I thought were awful and I come on here and everyone is calling it gold. I get the feeling some of you don't even listen to the promo but just assume that because it's Wyatt it's good. This past promo I thought both promos were going fantastic until he started singing that song. I get the feeling it was a weird place to end and he need a line or two more to really end on a strong note. I agree about Wyatt's in ring work though his match with Kane (who relevant or not is a good worker) was one of the worst SummerSlam matches I've ever seen. He had a good match with Bryan who doesn't, a good match with The Shield but who doesn't, a fairly good match with Cena but who doesn't these days. Wyatt is definitely shaky in the ring and while he's a great promo still he's never moved me all the way. I will say that every time he's on the screen I stop what I'm doing so I can listen to him but that's just so I can see if maybe I'll be blown away like the rest of you and that hasn't happened yet. I will say I'm not too much of a fan of the program not because of what either are doing it's just a weird match up and I'd also rather see Cena doing something else.

Does he put me to sleep? No. Does he blow me away with his promos, character, in-ring work? No. I'm not moved either way he's a nice fresh face for feuds and stories and what have you but outside of that eh.

 

[S.J. Maximus]

This is just one thread I have to comment on - Bray Wyatt is my second favorite WWE Superstar of the current crop. Let me give you some facts about Bray Wyatt and then I'll give you some opinions

1. Although his time on TV has been shorter, Wyatt has had a longer WWE tenure then "IWC Legends" Daniel Bryan, Cesaro, and all 3 member of the Shield.

2. The man is among the youngest superstars who consistently get TV time in 2014.

3. He is a third generation star, not second

4. He is one of the few men you can look at and already know he DOES NOT fit the cookie cutter mold that WWE has been building for the last 10 years (just like Daniel Bryan)

Now for my opinions:

1. Bray Wyatt has the promos in the industry today. His passion, his charisma, all shine through with every word, despite having the gimmick of a wayward preacher.

2. Bray is as into his character and his character is as mysterious as Mark Calaway's now-legendary gimmick from 1990. I have NO IDEA where everyone is getting this "short-term" idea from, but I see no reason why Bray Wyatt would ever be short-term. He is on the path to greatness and although he may not always be the 'wayward preacher', Bray will evolve just as Undertaker did - Taker's had more different gimmicks under the same name than anyone else in history (Bray may challenge that record).

3. Bray can put on good matches. To be honest, his match with Cena (who I absolutely despise) was my favorite match on the entire WrestleMania card. He's agile, quick for his size, and has a ring psychology that cannot be taught. Almost all of his moves are original and refreshing, much like Cesaro.

4. Which stars do I see headlining WrestleMania for the years to come? The 20-somethings Bray Wyatt and Roman Reigns

 

[chicagokmc]

He's being held back, because Cena's trying to make this character work. Cena's best, most unspoken talent is legitimizing people. He did t for so many people, Punk and Bryan included. Now, he has to keep this character afloat, when he should be going for the title.

I'll try to make this my final digression from the OP. There are already 3 people, Orton, Batista and now HHH involved in the title storyline. They just threw in a 4th, Monster Kane. Cena should always want to be champion but from a storyline standpoint only so many can be in the picture at one time. It makes sense for the Authority/Bryan program to play out while Cena spends his time elsewhere, against Bray Wyatt.

 

[justinept]

I like Wyatt, but I'm not some misguided fool who thinks he's going to continue on for generations like The Undertaker. The gimmick has a limited shelf-life and that will only become more apparent every time he appears on TV. He also rambles, which makes him more likely to be the next Ultimate Warrior.

As for his in-ring ability, he seems like somebody who can be carried to a decent match. He can also move quickly for a fat lad. But then again, fat people move quickly because of momentum more than ability.

First off, The Undertaker is a terrible example to use since he's had the longest consecutive run of any superstar in WWF history. To say that Wyatt won't reach that level is unfair - you could say the same thing about pretty much every other guy on the roster, John Cena included.

Now before we continue, what do you consider shelf life? Is it the amount of time a character has been portrayed on TV? Because if that's the case, then The Undertaker doesn't have near the shelf life you think. His character has been modified multiple times over - going from a zombie to a Satanic cult leader to a biker before reverting back to the zombie and then fusing the zombie and biker character. Further, if you're suggesting that Wyatt doesn't have the shelf life in that regard, then I'd agree. Of all the people on the roster, I believe John Cena's current character is the longest-running character without modification (8 years...) Wyatt certainly won't be able to play this character as-is for 8 years...

But... If you consider The Undertaker's shelf life to be the combined 24 years of his WWF career - which I do - then there's no reason to believe Wyatt can't be on top w/ this character for at least the next decade. The character is complex and multi-layered. There's a level of Bray Wyatt where you have to actually listen to him because he isn't simply throwing out buzz words - he doesn't sound like every other guy on the roster. This isn't meant as an insult, so please don't take it that way, but perhaps you're so in tune with the prototypical WWE-style promo that you struggle with Wyatt because it's different. And when I say different, I don't mean in Ultimate Warrior kind of way, I mean in a really good, complex way. To look at him less than a year after his debut, and to just say that Wyatt can't provide even more depth to his character - that he can't find a modification moving forward - is premature in my opinion.

Look at Mick Foley's Mankind character back in 1996. Did you think that character could evolve the way it did over the next several years? I sure didn't. But damn if it wasn't incredible TV watching that transformation. I'm not saying Wyatt will reach that level, but I also don't think 2014 is the proper time to determine whether or not he will.

 

[OYDK]

Cena was 26 or so when he was really getting over... 26 when he won his first world title. And there's suspending disbelief, and then this. You have to work in the environment you're given... Cartoon gimmicks are a thing of the past. Stupid things like a backwoods hick who doubles as a cult leader, a dead biker undertaker, or a death dealing doctor who speaks in rhymes and is named Dr. Zeus, are all things of the past.

Good for John Cena... What's your point? In one year Wyatt will be 27 and done with his "green" stage as you call it (which is BS considering he's been here for about 5-6 years) and will be ready to be champion. Hell he's ready right now so THAT point really sucks. Also he IS getting really over at 26 so again, what's your point? Also what do you mean "suspending disbelief and then this"... Are you calling Wyatt the most anti-authority gimmick of all time or that you can believe The Undertaker will travel with everybody but Wyatt won't.. What the hell's the difference?

Andddd we get it.. He's a backwards hick because he has a southern accent.. Get over it.

 

[Derek McLeod]

We gotta give this guy a break! A little while ago Mick Foley was praising his mic skills and his gimmick was popular, and now people want it gone? I get that the gimmick will only go so far, but having Cena bury him that way really killed the whole thing.At Er, I think that Wyatt should demolish Cena at ER, turn Cena heel, and bring him into the Family. Won't happen, but would be perfect for both guys.

 

[Con T.]

Good for John Cena... What's your point? In one year Wyatt will be 27 and done with his "green" stage as you call it (which is BS considering he's been here for about 5-6 years) and will be ready to be champion. Hell he's ready right now so THAT point really sucks. Also he IS getting really over at 26 so again, what's your point? Also what do you mean "suspending disbelief and then this"... Are you calling Wyatt the most anti-authority gimmick of all time or that you can believe The Undertaker will travel with everybody but Wyatt won't.. What the hell's the difference?

Andddd we get it.. He's a backwards hick because he has a southern accent.. Get over it.

Point being, people have said he's young. It shouldn't matter that he's young. Cena was main eventing mania in his mid twenties. The truth is, if you're this played out already, it gets old. He better find some way to change it up, especially with a lackluster, sloppy working style.

 

[steven87gill]

And people wonder why young guys can't get over. It's been under a year and it seems like the IWC is already calling for Wyatt's head when JUST LAST WEEK he was being praised as a God. Give the guy some time before we decide to throw him in the friggin trash bin. Amazing.

This is what happens when you feud with Cena over a protracted period of time.



Sad but true.

 

[Con T.]

This is what happens when you feud with Cena over a protracted period of time.



Sad but true.

How, pray tell, is Cena to blame? He makes everyone he works with look better than they actually are. That's the beauty of Cena... When you're working with him, you get elevated. Even those that WWE failed to follow up on (Sandow, Ziggler) were made to look like a million bucks with Cena.

If Bray fails, it won't be Cena's fault. So don't play that card.

 

[CM-Punkha]

I always thought people made too much of the IWC and how they criticize everything. Over the past month, I see how true it is now. The minute something is main stream, people want to bring it down.

Bray just started being Bray and you want a change. To what? Another wrestler with a generic name like Cody Rhodes? Kofi Kingston?

His matches have been very enjoyable thus far. His match with Bryan at the PPV was match of the night. His match was Cena was great cause of the ring psychology. That is what made Undertaker matches so memorable as well, when he does the whole get up schtick. You think the crowd would be invested if he came out as Mark Calloway and said I am going to beat you. A good wresting match does not need to be technical lesson with Benoit and Angle. It needs good ring work but there need to be other elements of drama.

Also to the guy was talking about the 400K PPV buys. I hope you are not serious. You don't believe PPV buys fell from 1 mln to 400K without reason? (Hint: Starts with WWE, ends with Network)

 

[justinept]

How, pray tell, is Cena to blame? He makes everyone he works with look better than they actually are. That's the beauty of Cena... When you're working with him, you get elevated. Even those that WWE failed to follow up on (Sandow, Ziggler) were made to look like a million bucks with Cena.

If Bray fails, it won't be Cena's fault. So don't play that card.

Yes and no. When you work with Cena, you're elevated because people see you working with the top guy in the company. But what Cena has done the past couple weeks is to take a very serious gimmick and try to turn it into a joke. How does John Cena showing The Wyatt Family "photo book" elevate them? How does that make anyone look better? It was nothing more than another stupid attempt by the WWE writers to be funny. I don't necessarily blame Cena for that, but someone should have nixed that segment.

 

[baufan2025]

If you are goimg to best utilize The Wyatt family they should be used like an old school Kane or Foley. Intense hardcore scary matches. But sense that isn't doable now I think they should abandon all the scary talk and just be swamp people with Alligators and stuff.

 

[chicagokmc]

Yes and no. When you work with Cena, you're elevated because people see you working with the top guy in the company. But what Cena has done the past couple weeks is to take a very serious gimmick and try to turn it into a joke. How does John Cena showing The Wyatt Family "photo book" elevate them? How does that make anyone look better? It was nothing more than another stupid attempt by the WWE writers to be funny. I don't necessarily blame Cena for that, but someone should have nixed that segment.

I just don't understand this thinking. How seriously are you taking this angle? TThis is no different than any other Cena angle where he is up against it and has to overcome great odds and self doubt. Substitute Wyatt with Orton, substitute Orton with Punk, substitute Punk with Rock, etc. When you say serious angle you make this sound like this make or break for both of these wrestlers and it isn't. Cena will move back to the title picture after this. Wyatt will go on to whatever. This is the schtick John Cena does all the time, Wyatt isn't so special as to not have it done with him. By the way it takes time to do the photo shopping etc required for those kind of skits. It should be looked at as a positive that they are spending time doing that for Wyatt (did you see them waste time like that when Cena fought Del Rio?)

 

[EricJ]

Somebody hit the nail on the head earlier when they said that Wyatt's character is only going to go as far as the PG rating will allow him. If this were the Attitude Era, Wyatt would be kidnapping Cena's loved ones and have them locked up in some shed located somewhere on the Wyatt compound. Maybe brainwashing them to become part of the Wyatt family. The story could go so much further as far as the creepy factor. But, in this era, it would be too over-the-top for the younger audience and there would be a lot of bad mainstream publicity directed to WWE.

 

[Kris Benwa]

Somebody hit the nail on the head earlier when they said that Wyatt's character is only going to go as far as the PG rating will allow him. If this were the Attitude Era, Wyatt would be kidnapping Cena's loved ones and have them locked up in some shed located somewhere on the Wyatt compound. Maybe brainwashing them to become part of the Wyatt family. The story could go so much further as far as the creepy factor. But, in this era, it would be too over-the-top for the younger audience and there would be a lot of bad mainstream publicity directed to WWE.

I hadn't thought of it but this would be pretty sweet especially how whenever Cena's dad is around he gets beat up anyway it would be cool to see him get beat up and then kidnapped maybe they lure Cena there and beat him up or some shit. That would be a good way to get real heat on Wyatt and maybe create some sympathy for Cena. I think even with Cena winning at Mania this would be a good way to continue to keep the story going a kick it up a notch. Imagine if they could use some blood! Sheesh man elevate this son of a bitch a whole lot. I don't think this is the case for just Wyatt though I think it's the case for a few people. Good post. One thing I also don't understand about this angle is they aren't assaulting Cena enough. These three huge dudes should be beating the shit out of Cena every chance they get this story could realistically take a number of turns. I agree with another earlier post of the guy who said it doesn't make sense for one person to take on three without trying to get any help. It didn't make sense with Bryan and it doesn't make sense now.

 

[Con T.]

Somebody hit the nail on the head earlier when they said that Wyatt's character is only going to go as far as the PG rating will allow him. If this were the Attitude Era, Wyatt would be kidnapping Cena's loved ones and have them locked up in some shed located somewhere on the Wyatt compound. Maybe brainwashing them to become part of the Wyatt family. The story could go so much further as far as the creepy factor. But, in this era, it would be too over-the-top for the younger audience and there would be a lot of bad mainstream publicity directed to WWE.

But they did try that with Daniel Bryan. WWE decided it was shit, and and they bailed on the idea.

Because it exposes how one dimensional Bray Wyatt is.

Signed,
Dr. Zeus (the guy that does Bray Wyatt's gimmick better than he does)