Here is what I don't get about the IWC

[Loveless]

I'll be brief on this

1. I can cheer and boo whoever I want. As a paying customer, what the WWE wants is completely irrelevant to me, I can make up my own mind.

2. Cena is a face. If, as a face, he can't get me to cheer for him, it's his failure, not mine.

I've said this before but the business is reliant on heroes and villains and when that system breaks you've got a problem. In the WWE's case, they've made their heroes irritatingly perfect boyscouts and took away the balls of their villains until no-one cares. All that's left is talent and that's what determines popularity now.

 

[Qixel]

The main difference between wrestling now and wrestling back in the 80s and 90s is everyone knows for a fact that it is scripted. It isn't a secret anymore. If a heel did something back in the 80s or 90s, he got booed because they had fooled the crowd into thinking they actually were that despicable. Nowadays, it can go either way because people understand that the heel likely isn't a douche in real life, he's just playing a character. They don't care to boo someone they like simply because he's playing an entertaining character; they'll cheer the hell out of him for making it interesting.

Times changed. It's not so much that heels aren't evil anymore, or that faces aren't as clean cut anymore; it's the fact that everyone knows they're watching a story. Did people hate Heath Ledger for his portrayal of the Joker in Dark Knight? Probably not, but the Joker as a character was pretty despicable. People realize it's not much different than a movie and react accordingly.

As far as heels getting cheered and faces getting booed goes, people will cheer for who they find interesting. And, 90% of the time, the bad guy is the interesting character. This is true for most forms of media. No one cares about infallible characters, they want conflict. Even outside of personality, villains initiate stories. This is simple fact. Villains start shit, and heroes end it. As a result, villains will nearly always be more interesting than heroes.

And the fans will cheer accordingly.

 

[The Eighties]

These days practically everyone has a computer so the IWC is no longer the basement dwelling phenomenon it once was, I mean it's ironic to have people on the internet posting about wrestling trying to insult other fans posting about wrestling as if they are somehow superior. These reactions are coming from fans of all kinds.

The live crowds look to me like they see WWE as an interactive circus, when you see the camera panning the crowds you see lots of people just having fun and they do that by simply supporting who entertains them as they are there to be entertained, not to boo and cheer on cue.

Vince preached free speech and wanted the WWE fans to have a voice, he moved with the times, he can't suddenly expect fans to act like it's the 80's again when it comes to faces, not when it is so out of sync with what is popular.

I think WWE realize that they need to add some variation to their faces, Punk is clearly going to be the angry and smart mouthed Punk he was at the beginning of summer 2011, Ziggler is going to remain cocky and arrogant and not lose the things fans love about him like HBK did in 96, and Bryan is going to remain an oddball. This should make the boos easier to come by for the next batch of heels.

 

[H33LTurn]

Let me get the Husky thing out of the way since it still seems to be bothering some people. It was completely disrespectful for the fans to chant Husky. However, the fans paid for their tickets and have every right to chant whatever they please. Getting a reaction right now is far more important than getting none at all. Also, I have a friend who attended the second RAW after Wyatt's debut and he along with others did their best to stop the few people who were still chanting Husky.

As far as heels and faces go we learned in the Attitude Era that the fans respond more to the quality of someone's character than the level of 'goodness' in their actions. WWE made the mistake of turning a lot of guys, take Randy Orton for example, face due to the pop they were receiving, but now its being revealed that the fans were much more appreciative of them when they were heel. Today's fans are not as receptive to the faces as the 80's crowd was. They cheer when they know they're about to see a storyline they love evolve or a character they like develop.

 

[shalliin]

There are no such things as faces and heels in the fans eyes anymore. We'll cheer and boo whoever we want. The wrestlers that you like, you'll cheer for, right? And the IWC likes heels since babyfaces are more suited for kids, so they usually cheer for heels. Very simple when you think about it.

If a wrestler is doing a good job the fans will show their respect. That's why Ziggler, as a heel, was cheered for by the IWC. Same goes for CM Punk, who was the best heel in the industry, Antonio Cesaro, Daniel Bryan, the Shield, yeah I can go on but you get the point. It's also a way to tell WWE creative to either push a guy or keep him in the mainevent. Wrestlers who get no reaction shouldn't be pushed until they tweak the character. It's all about connecting with the fans, using either your in-ring skills (Cesaro), your personality (Maddox) or both (Bryan, Punk, Sandow).

The days were WWE tells us who to cheer for and who to boo are over. With your logic John Cena, as both the champ and a babyface, should be cheered right? Wrong. The fans have their own opinions and Cena is the most hated man in wrestling for all the right reasons, despite being a face.

Cena is no where near the most hated man in wrestling. Sure smarks hate him because of his pg nature, but that also means that kids love him and so do parents since he gives a positive role model for people to look up to. When did it become a bad thing to not swear, lie, cheat, steal and belittle others? What's wrong with being a decent human being? Kids love him because they haven't been jaded by outside sources and still feel that sense of good/bad that we all used to share during our more innnocent period prior to the Attitude/Hardcore/NWO era's. Older fans have grown out of it, but younger fans still fell that wonder of watching a battle between a living superhero and a horrible villain.

So looking at it one way Cena is one of the most hated and equally one of the most beloved figures and both sides of that equal money for WWE. It gets fan reactions and gets fans to buy merchandise which is what a superstar is supposed to be.

 

[TC920]

"It doesn't matter if they're cheering or booing, as long as you're getting a reaction."

A phrase said by many in the business, people who know much more than we do. And it's 100% true.

I also very much agree with Loveless, original gimmicks and character development isn't what it used to be, so when fans see something they like, whether it be an interesting gimmick like Bray Wyatt, in-ring talent like Dolph Ziggler, or mic skills like CM Punk, people are gonna cheer because, heel or face, they don't get it on a consistent basis.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Love how you mention Wrestling fans have the IQ of Lunch Meat and yet you say vulgar things.

Please forgive my lack of understanding of your sensitive nature.

But let's look at this from that point of view which heel was hurt because fans
cheered for him? Not Triple H, Not Randy Orton, Not Chris Jericho, Not Christian, Not Mickey James (WM22 against the the face of the Diva's), Not CM Punk pre pipebomb, and not Kurt Angle. They still had good heel run despite being cheered as heels.

Not sure if I agree with all of your examples but if good is what you strive for that's sad. Why can't we have great? Oh that right, the smarks spout off on their love for the guys who exhibit bad behavior and it leaves the wrestler and WWE in a spot where they have to question whether or not to continue the same tactics.

You know the problem with all this is that we don't even know if it's the IWC that's doing this. Maybe it's the casual fans that are cheering for the heels instead. I mean it sure seems in recent threads it's not members of the IWC doing this.

I would say it is the smarks. The people who pay money yet don't want to have the experience that WWE is trying to provide. They either want to control the show like a heckler in a comedy club or they think they are going to accomplish something by acting the way they do.

Examples:

John Cena

Complaint: "Cena is stale and boring and I am sick of him being shoved down our throats."

Action: Booing, "Cena Sucks"

Reaction: Still the number one guy after what feels like 80 years, the kids chant louder and seem more loyal. Cena and the WWE mock the smarks for their actions and the smarks don't seem to know it - which in the end makes you marks.

Recommendation: if you are not entertained by Cena don't watch, don't react, don't buy tickets. WWE will be forced to change him or move him.

Husky Wyatt

Complaint: "WWE thinks were stupid if they are going to put out a character and then change him and expect us not to realize it."

Action: Husky Harris chants

Reaction: Seems harmless in the end in this case but maybe WWE is less likely to give a guy a second chance in the future. Maybe WWE is forced to change their story on the fly. In other words, nothing good can come out of this.

Recommendation: WWE doesn't think you're stupid. They think you are smart enough to realize you paid money to watch actors play parts in a show. They think you have enough brains to realize that recognizing an actor playing a different part doesn't make you smart, it means you have eyes.

Just try to enjoy the show you paid to see (and others paid to see).

Entertaining Heel X

Complaint: None actually, smarks tend to love what the guy is doing.

Action: cheers, pops, turning against the good guy.

Reaction: WWE throw their hands up and let the fans dictate. They don't have to tell stories anymore. They can be lazy and let the smarks take a story from beginning to end.

Recommendation: Your not a kid anymore and your tastes have changed, maybe you should be like your other friends and find new interests. WWE isn't sophisticated enough for you and that is unstandable. Or give the heel what they want and "boo" the shit out of him and pop when he gets beat or embarassed.


Newsflash to others - we knew it was scripted in the 80's and 90's, just like everything on TV and at the movies. But we were fans and tried to enjoy the show the way it meant to be enjoyed. When it wasn't for us anymore we moved on to other things. We didn't stick around and pay money to mock it.


Any flaws in my logic?

 

[flyinbukta]

Now, the problem seems to be that people here think buying a ticket entitles you to do whatever you want, even if that might be detrimental to a show.

That's not true.

You go to a theatre and make lots of noise, you get thrown out.
You go to a pantomime and cheer the bad guy (the closest we have to this phenomenon), you get thrown out.

Or, on the flip side: When you see Heath Ledger doing bad guy things playing the Joker, you appreciate his work, and if Christian Bale is doing his job, you dislike the Joker (even if he's such an awesome character), and support the Batman.

How does this translate to wrestling?

When you appreciate a guy who's meant to be a bad guy, you boo them. If you think the face is boring and therefore want him to lose, you still boo the bad guy (his boo reactions are what move him up the card and keep him heel), and then you go deathly quiet when the good guy does his thing.

However, that being said, I don't think that fully works anymore. For characters like CM Punk, Daniel Bryan and Chris Jericho (examples, I'm sure there's more), who are good enough to make face and heel work, then do whatever the fuck you want. As long as you're making noise, it'll work for them.
Where you need to do the right thing is where you want people to stay one way or the other. I think The Big Show sucks as a face. But I appreciate him. So, I would be mostly quiet while he was out as a face (to signal that I don't enjoy him as a face, and that a change is needed), and then when/if he turned heel again, I would boo the shit out of him.
Or, I think... I can't think of any faces I like who are "proper" faces. Nope. No-one. Let's use Kofi Kingston. If I like Kofi Kingston as a face (like I did in that feud with Randy Orton), I cheer him. He's getting the right reaction then, which signals that he's being accepted as a face. If I don't like him as a face, booing him is stupid. Because you're making noise. And quiet is what signals a bad job.

TLR - To keep an alignment the same, react properly. To signal that you don't like what you're seeing, be quiet. It's simple. Noise = reaction = success.

 

[FlairFan2003]

There are no such things as faces and heels in the fans eyes anymore. We'll cheer and boo whoever we want. The wrestlers that you like, you'll cheer for, right? And the IWC likes heels since babyfaces are more suited for kids, so they usually cheer for heels. Very simple when you think about it.

If a wrestler is doing a good job the fans will show their respect. That's why Ziggler, as a heel, was cheered for by the IWC. Same goes for CM Punk, who was the best heel in the industry, Antonio Cesaro, Daniel Bryan, the Shield, yeah I can go on but you get the point. It's also a way to tell WWE creative to either push a guy or keep him in the mainevent. Wrestlers who get no reaction shouldn't be pushed until they tweak the character. It's all about connecting with the fans, using either your in-ring skills (Cesaro), your personality (Maddox) or both (Bryan, Punk, Sandow).

The days were WWE tells us who to cheer for and who to boo are over. With your logic John Cena, as both the champ and a babyface, should be cheered right? Wrong. The fans have their own opinions and Cena is the most hated man in wrestling for all the right reasons, despite being a face.

Absolutely wrong. First, the IWC make up a tiny portion of the wrestling audience. I know a lot of wrestling fans and none of them ever goes online for anything wrestling related.

Second, wrestling is a soap opera, it is driven not by the matches but by the story lines that lead up to the matches. Take two guys with no history and no storyline wise reason to meet in a match and book them together and watch what happens...no one watches or cares.

Third, regardless of storyline, there have always been a small section of fans who cheer for the most charismatic or entertaing figure, plus older fans who are swayed more by character presentation than storyline presentatiion. This is not an IWC thing. There was no Internet in the mid 80s when groups of male fans would dress in 3 piece suits, wearing sun glasses, flashing the 4 finger sign while sitting at ringside, clearly imitating Ric Flair. They were a small group, but there was a portion of the audience that enjoyed the heel more. Sometimes a wrestler becomes so respected due to his work and character that larger prortions of the audience start cheering for them. This is what made The Road Warriors major faces after being designed as Biker Gang Heels also back in the 80s. It helped make Randy Savage eternally popular and is what got Steve Austin over when he was initially booked as a, untrustworthy RattleSnake before he turned into an anti establishment hero who always seemed to side with the little guy against the corporrate bullies like Vince McMahon. When WWE tried to turn Austin into a heel it didnt work, that wasnt an IWC thing. WCW tried several times in the 90s to get Flair over as a heel but he was always cheered, even against Hulk Hogan. Hogan himself was a guy who was turned into a face after he started connecting with larger portions of thye audience despite being a heel, then he went on to be the biggest face character of all time. That small "goes against the grain" element of the audience has always been there and sometimes a wrestler not only appeals to them but earns the respect of the more sophisticated fan they start to get over and cheered despite storyline. When this happens it's in the best interest of the wrestling company to go with the flow and make that wrestler a hero, like WWE did with Austin, booking him almost exclusively against mega heels, or WCW was forced to do with Flair, or like the NWA did with Road Warriors, or like the AWA & WWE did with Hogan.

 

[shalliin]

Second, wrestling is a soap opera, it is driven not by the matches but by the story lines that lead up to the matches. Take two guys with no history and no storyline wise reason to meet in a match and book them together and watch what happens...no one watches or cares.

And that right there is one of the major problems in wrestling today. There is too much soap opera and not enough action. This is a part of the reason that MMA has surged so much in the last 10 years. Wrestling turned away from an environment of athletic competition and giving clear lines of who to like and who to dislike and people were left with a large section of mediocre acting and horrible writing.
If what you say about people not caring if two people with no previous connection or story facing off against each other, then no one would watch sthings like Suberbowl, Stanley Cup Finals, World Series, any amateur event, cheerleading competitions, spelling bees, dogshows and other stuff that is aired and gets solid if not exactly exceptional ratings. The olympics would be non existent, boxing and UFC would never have lasted as long as they did, since their most famous matches were first time meetings of of people who had never had any reason to face each other until there was money involved, and then that let to payback matches. You can do the same in wrestling and for a very long time it was like that in wrestling but in the mid 90's 'storytelling' became more important then match making and that has lead to the situation we have now with a vastly reduced quality of product and watered down uninteristing matches.

 

[Sexcellence of Sexecution]

If what you say about people not caring if two people with no previous connection or story facing off against each other, then no one would watch sthings like Suberbowl, Stanley Cup Finals, World Series, any amateur event, cheerleading competitions, spelling bees, dogshows and other stuff that is aired and gets solid if not exactly exceptional ratings. The olympics would be non existent, boxing and UFC would never have lasted as long as they did, since their most famous matches were first time meetings of of people who had never had any reason to face each other until there was money involved, and then that let to payback matches. You can do the same in wrestling and for a very long time it was like that in wrestling but in the mid 90's 'storytelling' became more important then match making and that has lead to the situation we have now with a vastly reduced quality of product and watered down uninteristing matches.

Notice how every example you named is a REAL sporting event or competition, which you are comparing to something that is, for lack of a better term, fake. The wrestling business has never been more exposed, everyone knows wrestling is entertainment and that the outcomes of the matches are predetermined. Therefore, story and the characters have never been more important to the wrestling industry than they are today.

Wrestling is not a sport and the wrestling match itself is not the draw, the build-up is the draw. The characters and the angles are the build-up, and that is what gets people invested in a wrestling match. I would argue that today storytelling is pretty unimportant and that is what has lead to the decreased quality of the product. Usually the only people involved in storylines are the main eventers, and they are involved in weak, generic storylines at that. Most midcarders have no real angles going on and are just thrown together in matches.

Wrestling can no longer draw. I'm sorry I had to be the one to tell you. Old-school wrestling booking philosophies need to be thrown out the window, or the business will simply continue to limp forward.

 

[newwaveknight]

Here's a better question:

Why are you lumping all of the IWC together?

This is a complaint that I have. I'll be on here, ready to talk about wrestling with some of the people I regularly chat with on here, and then threads like these pop up.

It's these kinds of threads that make it sound like the IWC is some kind of hive mind being controlled by Brainiac or Darkseid on a spaceship far away.

You do realize that everyone in the IWC has different opinions from one another because we are all different people, right?

It's made worse because of the fact that this kind of IWC lumping together is only done on wrestling message boards...thus making the IWC-basher....A MEMBER OF THE IWC!!!!!!

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

Please forgive my lack of understanding of your sensitive nature.

I normally would not but if you are sincire I guess it's ok. It's my birthday afterall.

Not sure if I agree with all of your examples but if good is what you strive for that's sad. Why can't we have great? Oh that right, the smarks spout off on their love for the guys who exhibit bad behavior and it leaves the wrestler and WWE in a spot where they have to question whether or not to continue the same tactics.

Back to my point. Were those guys, whose examples I gave, heel run was ruined because fans cheered for them? Also did I examples I give ever needed the WWE to change the role of a heel to a face suddenly just because fans were cheering for them?

Or maybe, as many already mentioned, the crowd just find the heels more entertaining. And people have mentioned The Joker, Darth Vader, as bad guys people like. The only difference is that in movies there is no live crowd during the production.

I would say it is the smarks. The people who pay money yet don't want to have the experience that WWE is trying to provide. They either want to control the show like a heckler in a comedy club or they think they are going to accomplish something by acting the way they do.
.
.
.
Any flaws in my logic?

Two things yes.

For one unless you have a survey of every fan that boo's John Cena, and cheers for the heel and ask them if they see themselves as Smarks or are part of the "IWC" then you have no proof it's only the Smarks that are doing this. Is it hard to believe that a casual fan might just find a heel more entertaining than a face?

Heck I was a casual fan and not going to message boards during the Attitude Era was was cheering for Triple H more than The Rock in their feud during 1999/2000.

Reaction: WWE throw their hands up and let the fans dictate. They don't have to tell stories anymore. They can be lazy and let the smarks take a story from beginning to end.

So whose fault is that?

Recommendation: Your not a kid anymore and your tastes have changed, maybe you should be like your other friends and find new interests. WWE isn't sophisticated enough for you and that is unstandable. Or give the heel what they want and "boo" the shit out of him and pop when he gets beat or embarassed.

Newsflash to others - we knew it was scripted in the 80's and 90's, just like everything on TV and at the movies. But we were fans and tried to enjoy the show the way it meant to be enjoyed. When it wasn't for us anymore we moved on to other things. We didn't stick around and pay money to mock it.

Once again putting words in fans mouths. No one is mocking the WWE when they cheer or boo for. Do you think most fans in live attendance over think things through and decide who they will cheer or jeer for? No. It's a natural and impulsive reaction something cool happens fans love it. Why is that so hard to understand? Simply put, fans who watch the WWE do so because they are entertained. Regardless of if's because you love a face and you cheer for them or love the heel so much you do the same, isn't that the point of being a fan and the goal of the WWE?

Also what gives you the right to dictate the "rules" in how a crowd should behave? Like I said before it's a sign of arrogance on your part and for a guy who seems to think these "Smark" fans are arrogant, it's quite hypocritical.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I normally would not but if you are sincire I guess it's ok. It's my birthday afterall.

Happy birthday! Maybe with age will come wisdom and you will realize and admit to yourself and others that I am right.

Back to my point. Were those guys, whose examples I gave, heel run was ruined because fans cheered for them? Also did I examples I give ever needed the WWE to change the role of a heel to a face suddenly just because fans were cheering for them?

First off, I really don't remember those folks getting cheers and certainly don't remember them getting the cheers heel Punk, heel Bryan, and heel Henry get.

Or maybe, as many already mentioned, the crowd just find the heels more entertaining. And people have mentioned The Joker, Darth Vader, as bad guys people like. The only difference is that in movies there is no live crowd during the production.

I not denying that some fans find the heels more entertaining. I find the heels more entertaining. Most wrestling fans as they get older either stop watching or start appreciating the heels more.

As far as movies go, yes, certain bad guys are more entertaining (see most Bond movies) but do you cheer for the bad guys at the theater?

Two things yes.

For one unless you have a survey of every fan that boo's John Cena, and cheers for the heel and ask them if they see themselves as Smarks or are part of the "IWC" then you have no proof it's only the Smarks that are doing this. Is it hard to believe that a casual fan might just find a heel more entertaining than a face?

Casual fans can be assholes too, who cares who is doing it? You can label them anything you want. It still interferes with my enjoyment of the show and WWE's ability to tell the stories they want to tell.

Heck I was a casual fan and not going to message boards during the Attitude Era was was cheering for Triple H more than The Rock in their feud during 1999/2000.

And now there are many more of fans like you. Casual fans, marks, smarks, kids, grandmas, and popcorn vendors can all be assholes. Wrestling attendees of all the colors of the rainbow act like jerks, doesn't change the fact they're acting like jerks.

So whose fault is that?

Both sides, but I can understand why WWE struggled with how to react. It seems their decisions are genuine. It's too many of the fans that seem to want one thing but do counterintuitive things to make that happen.

Once again putting words in fans mouths. No one is mocking the WWE when they cheer or boo for.

Tell that to Windham Bray Husky Wyatt Rotundo Harris.

Do you think most fans in live attendance over think things through and decide who they will cheer or jeer for? No.

Rethink what you've said and what your saying now. Do you really think all reactions are based on raw emotion? If fans are not overthinking things then wouldn't they be participating in lockstep with WWE's stories?

It's a natural and impulsive reaction something cool happens fans love it. Why is that so hard to understand?

It is very rare that this happens. The only instance I can think of what the terrific, albeit short match that got Ziggler the belt off Del Rio.

Are you saying, "Husky Harris", "Cena Sucks!", "Goldberg" and Fandango dances are natural and impulsive? Is popping for a guy that just called you a "lemming" or walked off the show natural and impulsive? These actions may be entertaining and interesting but they don't cause people to pop.

Simply put, fans who watch the WWE do so because they are entertained. Regardless of if's because you love a face and you cheer for them or love the heel so much you do the same, isn't that the point of being a fan and the goal of the WWE?

The goal of the WWE is to get your money. It just amazes me that they get it from people who mock their product. People who don't seem to understand that it is a kid's show for the kids. People who want better from WWE but act in certain ways that may never get them the change that they want or even worse create change that they don't want.

Also what gives you the right to dictate the "rules" in how a crowd should behave? Like I said before it's a sign of arrogance on your part and for a guy who seems to think these "Smark" fans are arrogant, it's quite hypocritical.

Holy fuck! I'm not making rules. I'm a dude on the internet, I have no power. If wrestling fans have the IQ of lunch meat, I have watched wrestling for so long that my IQ is that of SPAM. Like the OP, we are trying to explain that certain people seem to do things which do nothing to help them get what they want and that sometimes their actions affect others enjoyment of the product. No one is taking away your rights and no one is making you do anything you don't want to do.

I was going to get you two roundtrip tickets and front row seats to WM30 for your birthday but now you've upset me too much and I can't trust how you will behave therefore I'm going to give them to one of those sick kids that John Cena is always hanging around. At least they will enjoy the show for what it is meant to be, not for what other are trying to make it for themselves.

 

[newwaveknight]

And that right there is one of the major problems in wrestling today. There is too much soap opera and not enough action.

Bro, do NOT start that "the WWE needs to be more wrestling and less sports entertainment" crap. If you REALLY wanted to watch just pure in-ring action, you'd watch actual collegiate/Olympic wrestling and not pro-wrestling.

Seriously, I'm shutting this shit down right now. I'm tired of people saying that shit. If you don't want a dramatic setting with storylines and just want in-ring action, change the fucking channel, get off of WrestleZone, and go to ESPN 2 and watch a college wrestling match.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

First off, I really don't remember those folks getting cheers and certainly don't remember them getting the cheers heel Punk, heel Bryan, and heel Henry get.

It happens, Triple H was cheered against Cena and Orton. Punk was getting cheers before his pipe bomb (look at RR), Jericho and Edge get cheered in Canada as heels (though they normally do something to have the crowd turn against them see they have to work the crowd to turn againts them), and heel Orton got a lot of cheers (against Cena for instance).

As far as movies go, yes, certain bad guys are more entertaining (see most Bond movies) but do you cheer for the bad guys at the theater?

I said before The Joker got an applause during the theater when the trailer popped out. But that's the thing that makes wrestling different from movies crowd participation of cheering and booing from the live audience is part of the product and the WWE has a job to get the right reaction from the crowd. Or they can go the cheap way and just hire a planted audience to do it for them like what WCW did. Seriously which is better?

The goal of the WWE is to get your money. It just amazes me that they get it from people who mock their product. People who don't seem to understand that it is a kid's show for the kids. People who want better from WWE but act in certain ways that may never get them the change that they want or even worse create change that they don't want.

Fans don't pay good money so they can s*** on a product. That person or those people have to be super wealthy or freaking insane. Most people, since they pay hundreds of dollars to have a good time and enjoy what they like. For some of them the money they use to attend are their own hard earned cash what gives anyone the right or assumption they only attended so they can mock the event?

Holy fuck! I'm not making rules. I'm a dude on the internet, I have no power. If wrestling fans have the IQ of lunch meat, I have watched wrestling for so long that my IQ is that of SPAM. Like the OP, we are trying to explain that certain people seem to do things which do nothing to help them get what they want and that sometimes their actions affect others enjoyment of the product. No one is taking away your rights and no one is making you do anything you don't want to do.

Ok let's say you aren't making the rules. But your arrogance is showing none the less. I mean you did call those fans a$$holes because they appear to ruin the enjoyment. Let's turn things around let's say Fan X had a great time for a live event he or she attended booed Cena, cheered for Ryback, etc. if that person heard someone saying what you did don't you think that person ruined the enjoyment for fan X. What I am saying you making these comments makes you no better than those other fans.

I was going to get you two roundtrip tickets and front row seats to WM30 for your birthday but now you've upset me too much and I can't trust how you will behave therefore I'm going to give them to one of those sick kids that John Cena is always hanging around. At least they will enjoy the show for what it is meant to be, not for what other are trying to make it for themselves.

If you actually do that! I tip my hat to you (for once). As for me I don't mind not attending WM30. But it seems you are saying I am no a "lesser" fan in your view. But whatever I'm done.

 

[rge2010]

I use the internet and I like to discuss Wrestling but I would hate to be classed as part of the 'IWC'

My perception is the majority are 'know it alls' and 'Wrestling snobs'. If a man hasn't paid his dues in ROH or any other crappy Indy Promotion then they are immediately shot down and hated. Automatically infact.

Another blanket trait is hating John Cena. Despite their heros like Chris Jericho and others saying he can infact Wrestle and the haters know nothing about the industry!

Finally my favourite part is they moan moan moan about Punk, Bryan and Ziggler not getting a fair crack, then they still moan when all 3 of them do!

 

[DetectiveZelix]

I like how members of the IWC try to classify the IWC. Shit I'm a member of the IWC by default hell of you people on this board are members. I am for the most part African American. What would it look like if I classified all of us calling us Ghetto, illiterate, happy hair criminals who can only find a career in Music or Sports? Yet I'm intellectual, proper, hair well groomed Office manager. Wouldnt that be a little fucked up? And to go with that point alot of the members of the IWC clearly like Cena, read some of the Cena threads here, the number of 'Haters' just about equals the defenders. Same goes for complainers/Praisers. You will always find an equilibrium in the IWC. I think people are just magnifying certain issues and complaints and plastering them on/as the face of the IWC. Like how most society paint african americans. They cant use pres. Obama or Sacramento Mayer Johnson for the image of African Americans they use Lil wayne and dumbass crackhead looking idiotic morons like Flava Flav to represent the African American prototype. Sad rather

 

[shalliin]

I like how members of the IWC try to classify the IWC. Shit I'm a member of the IWC by default hell of you people on this board are members. I am for the most part African American. What would it look like if I classified all of us calling us Ghetto, illiterate, happy hair criminals who can only find a career in Music or Sports? Yet I'm intellectual, proper, hair well groomed Office manager. Wouldnt that be a little fucked up? And to go with that point alot of the members of the IWC clearly like Cena, read some of the Cena threads here, the number of 'Haters' just about equals the defenders. Same goes for complainers/Praisers. You will always find an equilibrium in the IWC. I think people are just magnifying certain issues and complaints and plastering them on/as the face of the IWC. Like how most society paint african americans. They cant use pres. Obama or Sacramento Mayer Johnson for the image of African Americans they use Lil wayne and dumbass crackhead looking idiotic morons like Flava Flav to represent the African American prototype. Sad rather

Flava Flac is more gimmick then a boatload of earthquake/tugboat/bossman/akeem/red rooster/aldo montoya's could ever dream of being. Look up his history, the man's a genius with music, and has made a killing playing up the stereotypes. He can play at last time I saw at least 15 different instruments that he taught himself by ear, he wrote most of the music if not the lyrics to his group's songs, and done some trully inspiring things with his talents that would be completely out of gimmick.

 

[DetectiveZelix]

Flava Flac is more gimmick then a boatload of earthquake/tugboat/bossman/akeem/red rooster/aldo montoya's could ever dream of being. Look up his history, the man's a genius with music, and has made a killing playing up the stereotypes. He can play at last time I saw at least 15 different instruments that he taught himself by ear, he wrote most of the music if not the lyrics to his group's songs, and done some trully inspiring things with his talents that would be completely out of gimmick.

What does this have to do with what I said? my point is society makes black people look like idiots the way Flav looked in his ridiculous "Flavor of Love" show. I know about his history but this has nothing to do with who he really is, more or less how he is portrayed