Here is what I don't get about the IWC

[mrbrightside]

This is just a question/complaint that I have and I am looking for an answer. Why does it seem that the IWC does the opposite that the WWE would like you to do? Here are some examples of what I mean:

1) CM Punk: CM Punk has been the top heel in the WWE for a while, but watching every match he is in, I notice that some of the crowd are actually cheering for CM Punk. I understand that you respect him as a wrestler, but his job out there is to make your boo. I think CM Punk was never fully over because the crowd was mixed for him. Why are you hindering a wrestling you actually respect and enjoy watching? Now Punk is an in betweener going more towards a face which is not where CM Punk should be.

2) Mark Henry: Same as above against John Cena recently. You are suppose to boo him. Now he is a face which he shouldn't be either.

3) The Wyatt Family: If you truly want this to succeed, why are we chanting Husky Harris? How is that going to help him in the future?

I want an answer of why this keeps happening? Why do we hurt the wrestlers that we want to succeed?

 

[ThePhenomLives]

There are no such things as faces and heels in the fans eyes anymore. We'll cheer and boo whoever we want. The wrestlers that you like, you'll cheer for, right? And the IWC likes heels since babyfaces are more suited for kids, so they usually cheer for heels. Very simple when you think about it.

If a wrestler is doing a good job the fans will show their respect. That's why Ziggler, as a heel, was cheered for by the IWC. Same goes for CM Punk, who was the best heel in the industry, Antonio Cesaro, Daniel Bryan, the Shield, yeah I can go on but you get the point. It's also a way to tell WWE creative to either push a guy or keep him in the mainevent. Wrestlers who get no reaction shouldn't be pushed until they tweak the character. It's all about connecting with the fans, using either your in-ring skills (Cesaro), your personality (Maddox) or both (Bryan, Punk, Sandow).

The days were WWE tells us who to cheer for and who to boo are over. With your logic John Cena, as both the champ and a babyface, should be cheered right? Wrong. The fans have their own opinions and Cena is the most hated man in wrestling for all the right reasons, despite being a face.

 

[2Sweet_4Life]

1) CM Punk-We cheer for him because the things he does, the adults enjoy, whereas in the attitude era the babyfaces were doing heel antics which is why we loved them. Any self-respecting adult is not going to sit there and cheer Sheamus and Cena when they come out smiling and kissing the crowds ass just to make Vince happy. They want to cheer for the anti-hero (CM Punk).

2) Mark Henry- Same as CM Punk the adults need to cheer for someone, they can't cheer for Cena so they have to cheer for Henry.

3) The Wyatt Family- I agree with you on this one this was just stupid on the part of the IWC.

I want an answer of why this keeps happening?
Answer- You'll probably find that what WWE thinks are their top heels (Henry,Punk,Del Rio etc.) they put against their top babyface (Cena)... But the IWC hates Cena so if WWE want heels to get over they shouldn't put them against Cena as they'll get cheered. They should put them against Bryan.

Why do we hurt the wrestlers that we want to succeed?
Answer- I don't agree with this as I think the whole Heel/Face thing is dead. People now cheer for who they want and I think Vince has accepted this, so I don't think we are wrecking heels as I think heels/faces don't exist its just up to the crowd who we cheer for.

As for the Husky Harris thing, that does hurt wrestlers that we want to succeed and it's just idiots who think they're clever, with the 'Albert' chants and although it was different the 'Goldberg' chants to Ryback.

 

[mrbrightside]

See, in the IWC's eyes there isn't faces or heels, but were are not usually the target audience. If you respect Ziggler as a heel, you boo the crap out of him to let him know he is doing a good job. They want to get booed. Now you have Ziggler as a face and it isn't going very well so far. We also get to see CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar, which I don't want to see but I could be in the minority there. Same w/ the rest you mentioned. If you are cheering a bad guy, it is counter intuitive. And I am not going to touch Cena because that has been overdone. And like another poster said, calling Tensai Albert did nothing for him. That is just the IWC being snarky fans who want to prove they know more about wrestling than Vince does.

 

[ThePhenomLives]

See, in the IWC's eyes there isn't faces or heels, but were are not usually the target audience. If you respect Ziggler as a heel, you boo the crap out of him to let him know he is doing a good job. They want to get booed. Now you have Ziggler as a face and it isn't going very well so far. We also get to see CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar, which I don't want to see but I could be in the minority there. Same w/ the rest you mentioned. If you are cheering a bad guy, it is counter intuitive. And I am not going to touch Cena because that has been overdone. And like another poster said, calling Tensai Albert did nothing for him. That is just the IWC being snarky fans who want to prove they know more about wrestling than Vince does.

Some idiots chanting "Husky Harris" doesn't mean the smart fans ruin characters. Also "Tensai" was a stupid gimmick that had no chance of getting over. Adults will cheer for heels because modern babyfaces are tailor made for kids. It's not like back in the day. Are we supposed to cheer a big Irish guy hugging kids? Or John Cena? No, so we cheer for the wrestlers that deserve it, that entertain us in the ring and as characters. Ziggler is still getting a good reaction as a face, 'cause he's not a BABYFACE. That's the difference. Fact is almost all faces in WWE are babyfaces. Again, BABYFACES. How can you possibly expect a grown up to cheer for a babyface who caters to kids? It makes no sense pal.

Also if we should just boo wrestlers who we like for being heels, and we also boo faces, who exactly is getting cheered then?

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

1) CM Punk: CM Punk has been the top heel in the WWE for a while, but watching every match he is in, I notice that some of the crowd are actually cheering for CM Punk. I understand that you respect him as a wrestler, but his job out there is to make your boo. I think CM Punk was never fully over because the crowd was mixed for him. Why are you hindering a wrestling you actually respect and enjoy watching? Now Punk is an in betweener going more towards a face which is not where CM Punk should be.

I said this in the previous thread. Austin was planned to be a top heel back in 1996/1997. But fans started cheering for him, why because fans loved him same goes as how fans love Punk. WWE realized this and gave in and instead turned Austin to the an anti-hero and top face of the attitude era.

So I guess we should just blame the fans and "IWC" or Smark fans for turning Austin one of the biggest superstars in the industry? Yeah shame on them for Turning Austin the top baby face and helped the company best the monday night wars.

2) Mark Henry: Same as above against John Cena recently. You are suppose to boo him. Now he is a face which he shouldn't be either.

No ... we cheer for who we want to cheer. Fans pay good money to attend the event live to have a good time. So what gives anyone the right to dictate who the fans should cheer or boo for?

Again look your first point and my answer. If that wasn't enough DX was a heel faction but fans cheered for them and turned face, The Rock was cheered in Canada and got such a huge pop and turned to be the #2 baby face of the era. Batista was cheered against Benoit and turned to a huge face.

I think those examples showed it all worked out for the company.

3) The Wyatt Family: If you truly want this to succeed, why are we chanting Husky Harris? How is that going to help him in the future?

Fans are going to be rough when the WWE pretends and rewrite's history. So fans can be tough and will call the WWE out. I see nothing wrong with that, did Ryback fail because fans chanted "Goldberg" or was it because he lost like 7 PPV matches in a row?

That is just the IWC being snarky fans who want to prove they know more about wrestling than Vince does.

That's way out of line. What gives you the right to give assumptions to fans?

You want my personal reason why I cheer for heels at times? Simple it's because i find them entertaining no more, no less. But then I also cheer for faces so it pretty much nullifies your point.

Or maybe people in general just like bad guys. I remember watching a Dark Knight trailer in the theaters and fans were cheering when Heath Ledger's The Joker showed up. By your point of view these are "snarky movie or comic book geeks wanting to prove they know more about Batman and movies than Chris Nolan". Or wait maybe The Joker is just a cool character that fans love seeing him on screen.

I do kind of funny that it seems you find the IWC and snarks arrogant when you are telling us how to behave at a live event, which is a sign of arrogance as well.

 

[mrbrightside]

You are implying that Ziggler, The Shield, Wyatt Family etc have the same charisma that DX and Stone Cold have and that has yet to be seen. Ziggler is not as over as you think and he is trying to be a Chris Jericho/HBK type which he is not. Do you really want to see Dean Ambrose as a face? CM Punk as a face? Yeah, we had that. It wasn't good.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Because wrestling fans are more likely to have the IQ of lunch meat. They will point out how they made Stone Cold a huge face and the top guy of a tremendous era. Yet they completely forget that they also made Cena a face by giggling along with his offensive raps. They also forget about the other 50 wrestlers they've tried to make over the last 10 years that have completely flopped or become something rushed and unnatural.

Then they'll start spouting off all ACLU about their "rights" and completely ignore the fact that no one is trying to take away their "rights". We're just trying to tell them how stupid they are for not realizing that you're hurting the heels you like by cheering. You're basically ruining the idea that doing bad things should not be commended despite their entertainment value. Buy a shirt, carve your initials in to a tree with the heels initials and a little TLA, mastrubate vigorously at home as that heel does awful things, but at the shows give the heel what he wants and boo the shit out of him. It the best way to get the heel to continuously do that awesome heel work that you love so much.

Heels you like - boo
Faces you like - cheer
Heels and faces you don't like - bathroom break or just stay home.

When the next Stone Cold shows up let the support and build come like a pubescent girl's first period - naturally and full of blood.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

You are implying that Ziggler, The Shield, Wyatt Family etc have the same charisma that DX and Stone Cold have and that has yet to be seen. Ziggler is not as over as you think and he is trying to be a Chris Jericho/HBK type which he is not. Do you really want to see Dean Ambrose as a face? CM Punk as a face? Yeah, we had that. It wasn't good.

No I am not implying that but what I am saying that maybe that fans are cheering for these heels because they find them entertaining. That' how it always been, blaming the fans for cheering for a heel Ziggler is the same thing as blaming fans for cheering for Austin as a heel. Regardless what the eventual outcome will be. But it's not fans looking into the future and saying they will cheer for them because of how they envision the it, it's fans cheering for the now who they find entertaining at that moment they are watching the event.

How WWE reacts to that is their own business, but you can't penalize the fans for cheering or booing who they want to cheer or boo.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Because wrestling fans are more likely to have the IQ of lunch meat. They will point out how they made Stone Cold a huge face and the top guy of a tremendous era. Yet they completely forget that they also made Cena a face by giggling along with his offensive raps. They also forget about the other 50 wrestlers they've tried to make over the last 10 years that have completely flopped or become something rushed and unnatural.

Then they'll start spouting off all ACLU about their "rights" and completely ignore the fact that no one is trying to take away their "rights". We're just trying to tell them how stupid they are for not realizing that you're hurting the heels you like by cheering. You're basically ruining the idea that doing bad things should not be commended despite their entertainment value. Buy a shirt, carve your initials in to a tree with the heels initials and a little TLA, mastrubate vigorously at home as that heel does awful things, but at the shows give the heel what he wants and boo the shit out of him. It the best way to get the heel to continuously do that awesome heel work that you love so much.

Heels you like - boo
Faces you like - cheer
Heels and faces you don't like - bathroom break or just stay home.

When the next Stone Cold shows up let the support and build come like a pubescent girl's first period - naturally and full of blood.

This.

Raven said it best. If you like what I do as a heel, show me the respect of booing me when I'm in the ring, because that's what I want... or something to that effect.

It doesn't help though that part of the problem is that the WWE doesn't really know how to do a compelling face character. They know how to do heels of course, but faces aren't really their forte.

It hurts wrestlers in the long run too. A hot new heel comes along. The IWC gets excited for him and starts cheering him like crazy whenever he comes out. The WWE in turn has their new heel make a face turn, which takes some of the edge off of the character and makes him a little less interesting. The IWC then complains that the guy they used to like just isn't as good anymore, and moves onto the next hot new heel. Wash, rinse and repeat. Of course there's exceptions... but for the most part that is how it always seems to go.

Let the heels be heels. Love their characters. Love what they do. But when you go to the shows, show that love by giving them the reaction they're looking for. Boo them.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

This.

Raven said it best. If you like what I do as a heel, show me the respect of booing me when I'm in the ring, because that's what I want... or something to that effect.

Correct me if I am wrong. But if the heel really wants to be booed don't they do something to get the crowd against him? Last I checked Canadians like Jericho, Edge, and Christian have done that in the past when they want to get heat from the crowd.

If this was such a problem why can't other superstars do the same? It's been proven to be effective. If Punk being cheered at Payback is such a big deal they could have him just come out wearing a Boston Bruins Jersey ... problem solved.

Then they'll start spouting off all ACLU about their "rights" and completely ignore the fact that no one is trying to take away their "rights". We're just trying to tell them how stupid they are for not realizing that you're hurting the heels you like by cheering. You're basically ruining the idea that doing bad things should not be commended despite their entertainment value. Buy a shirt, carve your initials in to a tree with the heels initials and a little TLA, mastrubate vigorously at home as that heel does awful things, but at the shows give the heel what he wants and boo the shit out of him. It the best way to get the heel to continuously do that awesome heel work that you love so much.

Love how you mention Wrestling fans have the IQ of Lunch Meat and yet you say vulgar things. But let's look at this from that point of view which heel was hurt because fans cheered for him? Not Triple H, Not Randy Orton, Not Chris Jericho, Not Christian, Not Mickey James (WM22 against the the face of the Diva's), Not CM Punk pre pipebomb, and not Kurt Angle. They still had good heel run despite being cheered as heels.

You know the problem with all this is that we don't even know if it's the IWC that's doing this. Maybe it's the casual fans that are cheering for the heels instead. I mean it sure seems in recent threads it's not members of the IWC doing this.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Correct me if I am wrong. But if the heel really wants to be booed don't they do something to get the crowd against him? Last I checked Canadians like Jericho, Edge, and Christian have done that in the past when they want to get heat from the crowd.

If this was such a problem why can't other superstars do the same? It's been proven to be effective. If Punk being cheered at Payback is such a big deal they could have him just come out wearing a Boston Bruins Jersey ... problem solved.

They obviously do... but sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't.

Heel tactics are meant to get the crowd against you... except today, most fans cheer for those tactics. The only way Punk was able to get the crowd against him in his last heel run was when he would insult the actual crowds whenever they'd start cheering him. Effective, but at the same time shouldn't have actually been necessary.

The point is, if you go along with what the wrestler wants you to do (in this case boo the heel), you're actually showing them respect. If you enjoy what they do enough that you'd otherwise be cheering for it... then is it really too much to ask that you show them that respect?

After all, that's what the WRESTLERS want you to do.

 

[gasM]

1) CM Punk-We cheer for him because the things he does, the adults enjoy, whereas in the attitude era the babyfaces were doing heel antics which is why we loved them. Any self-respecting adult is not going to sit there and cheer Sheamus and Cena when they come out smiling and kissing the crowds ass just to make Vince happy. They want to cheer for the anti-hero (CM Punk).

Didn't everybody complain when Sheamus kept pulling heel tactics as a babyface earlier this year?

Also why wouldn't people cheer Cena? Theoretically speaking he always does the right thing, never runs away from a fight, and speaks his mind. Does this mean we should dislike all "good guys"? Would you refuse to be friends with somebody in real life because they were dependable and courageous, if perhaps unexciting?

Obviously I'm being pedantic; it's far more interesting to invest in conflicted characters (CM Punk/Batman) than whiter than whites (John Cena/Superman). And certainly some anti-Cena sentiments are understandable, because we do want and deserve to see some change from him. But come on, this is professional wrestling, where 99% of stories boil down to this:

1) Bad guy comes into town and beats everyone up.
2) Good guy stands up to bad guy.
3) Fight.

So if a guy like Cena stands in front of a guy like Mark Henry, holds his ground and fights like a man why shouldn't we cheer him? Why should we boo the good guy just because he isn't as edgy as the bad guy?

At the end of the day, if a babyface character tries too hard it feels false and they can't get any sympathy. They just have to sit back, be natural and endearing, and let the heel whip up sympathy for them by creating the drama and conflict so that when the babyface goes over the big bad heel, we all go home happy. It's wrestling 101; why do we as fans get bogged down in the other stuff and confuse everything?

 

[Headman]

I think you'll find this issue goes a little deeper than most would think. Grown men who follow wrestling, collect toys, play games or obsessively partake in any activity that is traditionally for children aren't exactly known for their maturity or emotional stability. Obviously not every wrestling fan fits the stereotype but the squeaky wheels will always get the grease and the internet is full of squeaky wheels.

 

[The Butcher]

Fans should act and react the way I want them to because if they don't it hurts my enjoyment of the product. Same with the writers. They should write the stories that I want them to write and make the guys that I like champions. I know what's best for WWE and for all fans, and as a random message board poster who nonchalantly steals from WWE by streaming their pay-per-view events, it's completely my place to make these demands.

 

[MCMG]

You can't start telling who people should boo/cheer.

Booing, for example, John Cena is acceptable. I would never personally but if someone doesn't like John Cena than boo him. Booing/Cheering is encouraged in the WWE. It's like a mix between a panto and a sporting event. It's not just acting and it isn't just athletes performing – there is a mix meaning we can react to certain superstars in certain ways. It would be boring if every cheered the faces and booed the heels.

If I want to cheer Ziggler or Punk than I do it because they are talented, likable, entertaining or all three. Not because I think I am “smart” and to spite the WWE. If I like a superstar than I will react in a positive manner – that is just natural instincts. The Great Khali is a face but I would contemplate booing him. Simply because I think he is waste of space and is wrongfully taking space on the roster and not for any other reason.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

You can't start telling who people should boo/cheer.

Booing, for example, John Cena is acceptable. I would never personally but if someone doesn't like John Cena than boo him. Booing/Cheering is encouraged in the WWE.

Exactly!

I think there's a contradiction when people complain we boo John Cena. Fans who boo Cena are supposedly disrespectful because he is a face. Yet the WWE and Vince McMahon are geniuses because of how it created an "epic" crowd reaction during live events and how WWE has capitalized on it

 

[R.K.O]

Part of it yes was the fans for cheering heels like Randy Orton for doing absolutely despicable things as a way to "go against the system" but WWE had mismanaged many of the face turns in recent years. For example Sheamus, he was cheered for powerbombing Sin Cara through a ladder at MITB, a brutal heel act. What did the WWE do? They removed every single of his heel trait and replaced them with a smiling Irish joke telling goof.

Here's a hint WWE, if people are cheering said heel it's because the fans actually like their character or specific traits, such as Miz with his brash attitude. Don't go change it completely and blame the fans when the said wrestler is not getting over as a face.

On your point about Bray Wyatt/Husky Harris though, I absolutely agree with you. Those are the same idiots who complained about Cena being stale but when WWE give them a fresh new interesting gimmick with the potential to be at the top to challenge/replace Cena they try to sabotage it, which in the end they are the ones to lose out because Cena will be at the top even longer. I can't express the disgust I have with those people.

 

[ThePhenomLives]

And also, if we'd boo heels we like (which is most heels) and cheer faces we don't like, first of all it would be very forced and hardly genuine. Imagine the smart fans cheering for Cena, a guy that they (we) hate. And I don't mean dislike. I mean actually hate. It just wouldn't work. Instead we have the option to give every wrestler the reaction we want, which is great. Just cheer for whoever you like and boo whoever you like. It doesn't hurt the product and actually helps tell WWE creative who is over and who is not. Last weeks Raw was a great example of this (the Cena picking Bryan segment).

To add to this, if we'd "show heels respect by booing them" and also boo most of the faces, then no one would be cheered for. It's as simple as a wrestler you like walking out and you're happy to see this guy, so you cheer. Why wasn't Brock Lesnar, a mega heel, booed when he came out on Raw last monday? People want to see him, and they'll let you know that. Again, this isn't ten years ago. Wrestling has changed.

R.K.O was absolutely spot on with his latest post. Good faces are rare now a days. They all cater to kids. WWE don't really get the difference between face and babyface one would think, so everyone seems to be a babyface now. Why on earth would an adult cheer for a babyface?

 

[das1234]

there is a reason people chant husky harris at bray wyatt.

that reason is:
they think wwe thinks they are stupid.
gimmick changes happen often, but why change the name? what gain is there not calling him husky harris anymore? bray wyatt has as little recognition value as husky harris, so why change it?
people want wwe to know they have a memory longer than 4 weeks, that is why they chant it. like with tensai, people feel their intelligence insulted to believe he got tattoos on his head and suddenly is from japan.

as for heels in general, i think that is the only place where PG hinders wrestling TVs ability to tell stories, because despicable things can not be done anymore.
a heel thing would be beating rey mysterio to a bloody pulp, but they cant show that anymore. the result is that the bar for heel things is so low, that even faces would do these things, like beating someone up. sheamus beats guys up all the time, so he is a heel right? the most "heel" things happening on a weekly basis are when faces insult vickie guerrero, so what is that supposed to tell me?
look at the shield: they came down and beat someone up, but it was so samey and done before that they are cheered instead because they look cool and are good in the ring.
also i think the booking of wwe in general makes heels (mostly midcard heels) the underdogs and thus sympathetic to the audience because THEY are the ones that have to overcome the odds and win against supercena or whatever.

 

[d_henderson1810]

There are no such things as faces and heels in the fans eyes anymore. We'll cheer and boo whoever we want. The wrestlers that you like, you'll cheer for, right? And the IWC likes heels since babyfaces are more suited for kids, so they usually cheer for heels. Very simple when you think about it.

If a wrestler is doing a good job the fans will show their respect. That's why Ziggler, as a heel, was cheered for by the IWC. Same goes for CM Punk, who was the best heel in the industry, Antonio Cesaro, Daniel Bryan, the Shield, yeah I can go on but you get the point. It's also a way to tell WWE creative to either push a guy or keep him in the mainevent. Wrestlers who get no reaction shouldn't be pushed until they tweak the character. It's all about connecting with the fans, using either your in-ring skills (Cesaro), your personality (Maddox) or both (Bryan, Punk, Sandow).

The days were WWE tells us who to cheer for and who to boo are over. With your logic John Cena, as both the champ and a babyface, should be cheered right? Wrong. The fans have their own opinions and Cena is the most hated man in wrestling for all the right reasons, despite being a face.

I noticed, watching a Randy Savage DVD, that he got heavily booed, though he was greatly respected. You want to know why? Because he did heelish things. When he hit Ricky Steamboat with a ring bell and injured him, everyone booed Savage (even though they respected his in-ring work) and wanted Steamboat to beat him at WM3.

The problem is, heels don't play heels anymore. They play cool anti-heroes. Heels would get booed if what they did was so vile, so disgraceful, that any right-thinking person would like the heel to get what he is due.

Hulk Hogan got booed when he went heel at HH' 96. He got stuff thrown at him. Same with Bully Ray earlier this year at "Lockdown".

Yet Punk isn't booed, because he plays to the fans. PG and WWE not knowing how to build heels anymore has hurt this.

Take Randy Orton. He was perceived as a "cool" anti-hero. See the reaction he got at ONS '05. He was booed out of the building , and played up to it. If he had been more "evil" and Cena was more sympathetic, then it may have worked.

Heels need to be pure "evil" these days, but, even then, when you have people side with dictators like Saddam Hussein rather than George W. Bush, then society itself has its values warped.

The fans think "bad" is "cool". This needs to change to get people to boo heels again.

 

[ThePhenomLives]

I noticed, watching a Randy Savage DVD, that he got heavily booed, though he was greatly respected. You want to know why? Because he did heelish things. When he hit Ricky Steamboat with a ring bell and injured him, everyone booed Savage (even though they respected his in-ring work) and wanted Steamboat to beat him at WM3.

The problem is, heels don't play heels anymore. They play cool anti-heroes. Heels would get booed if what they did was so vile, so disgraceful, that any right-thinking person would like the heel to get what he is due.

Hulk Hogan got booed when he went heel at HH' 96. He got stuff thrown at him. Same with Bully Ray earlier this year at "Lockdown".

Yet Punk isn't booed, because he plays to the fans. PG and WWE not knowing how to build heels anymore has hurt this.

Take Randy Orton. He was perceived as a "cool" anti-hero. See the reaction he got at ONS '05. He was booed out of the building , and played up to it. If he had been more "evil" and Cena was more sympathetic, then it may have worked.

Heels need to be pure "evil" these days, but, even then, when you have people side with dictators like Saddam Hussein rather than George W. Bush, then society itself has its values warped.

The fans think "bad" is "cool". This needs to change to get people to boo heels again.

True, heels don't act like typical heels anymore while faces have all become babyfaces, which throws everything off. But if you have a heel who is cool and the smarter fans can relate too, and a face who caters to kids, it's obvious the heel will be cheered, right?

WWE today is just so predictable, you always know how a show is going to end and there's no reason to really tune in next week, except for the fact that we're wrestling fans. That's why heels always do the same thing, simply attack the faces, only for the faces to always overcome. Look at the Shield, they do the same thing every week. No promos, no segments, just attack people to a point where it might still be fun to watch but it's also getting stale.

I loved the Mark Henry retirement speech, the CM Punk dresses up as a druid and attacks Undertaker and the Cody Rhodes boxing gloves attack on Big Show. It was unpredictable, very heelish and not something you see every week. Sadly, this only happens a few times every year.

Having said that I like the fact that fans cheer and boo whoever they want. I just wish heels and faces would be better at the same time.

 

[scomvp316]

This is just a question/complaint that I have and I am looking for an answer. Why does it seem that the IWC does the opposite that the WWE would like you to do? Here are some examples of what I mean:

Since when did Putin run WWE because thats what VKM acts like a total dictorian
Heres a thought people will cheer for who they like and will cheer more for people that the so called intelligent marketers think there is nothing in them
By your thinking Flair should of only had half his title reigns because hes a heel
Maybe people cheer for the best wrestlers and the ones they relate to in their own persona
WWE tries to jam certain talent down our throats and the more they do that the more fans will react towards the heel

1) CM Punk: CM Punk has been the top heel in the WWE for a while, but watching every match he is in, I notice that some of the crowd are actually cheering for CM Punk. I understand that you respect him as a wrestler, but his job out there is to make your boo. I think CM Punk was never fully over because the crowd was mixed for him. Why are you hindering a wrestling you actually respect and enjoy watching? Now Punk is an in betweener going more towards a face which is not where CM Punk should be.

The guy has been over for a while
Don't forget before he was turned heel he was neck to neck with cena on the merch sales
2) Mark Henry: Same as above against John Cena recently. You are suppose to boo him. Now he is a face which he shouldn't be either.

3) The Wyatt Family: If you truly want this to succeed, why are we chanting Husky Harris? How is that going to help him in the future?

I want an answer of why this keeps happening? Why do we hurt the wrestlers that we want to succeed?

Us fans don't hurt the progression the so called smartest guy in the world of marketing in VKM ends the momentum and in some cases just for his own amusement

 

[prestonluv]

So tired of people complaining about the live fans.

They paid there money to go to the event. They can chant or cheer for whomever they want as long as they dont threaten anyone. I personally love this as it makes wrestling so interesting. Its not just the faces vs the heels....its the family crowd vs the young adult crowd. I love cheering against Cena while my daughter cheers for him. We have good fun in doing so.

Stop beating an old record. People can chant or cheer for whomever they want and they should be pat on the back for doing it. They paid there monies.

 

[prestonluv]

I noticed, watching a Randy Savage DVD, that he got heavily booed, though he was greatly respected. You want to know why? Because he did heelish things. When he hit Ricky Steamboat with a ring bell and injured him, everyone booed Savage (even though they respected his in-ring work) and wanted Steamboat to beat him at WM3.

The problem is, heels don't play heels anymore. They play cool anti-heroes. Heels would get booed if what they did was so vile, so disgraceful, that any right-thinking person would like the heel to get what he is due.

Hulk Hogan got booed when he went heel at HH' 96. He got stuff thrown at him. Same with Bully Ray earlier this year at "Lockdown".

Yet Punk isn't booed, because he plays to the fans. PG and WWE not knowing how to build heels anymore has hurt this.

Take Randy Orton. He was perceived as a "cool" anti-hero. See the reaction he got at ONS '05. He was booed out of the building , and played up to it. If he had been more "evil" and Cena was more sympathetic, then it may have worked.

Heels need to be pure "evil" these days, but, even then, when you have people side with dictators like Saddam Hussein rather than George W. Bush, then society itself has its values warped.

The fans think "bad" is "cool". This needs to change to get people to boo heels again.

puhleeze...

You can't get more heelish than CM Punk belittling and threatening Jerry Lawler right after his heart attack. And yet...many people still cheered for him

Its a different age and era of wrestling fans