Hell in a Cell 2014

[klunderbunker]

Not with a random Wyatt with no interest in who wins interrupting for no reason in a personal feud.

You do realize there's a show tomorrow night right?

Keywords being positioned as, everyone you're mentioning isn't active and are not the future of the company.

It hasn't been all night, probably an hour at best. Much like you I'm on a wrestling forum and are stating an opinion that much like yours isn't right or wrong, but a hell of a lot less self-indulgent.

HHH and Stephanie are quite active. There's more to a wrestling company that wrestlers.

And what's wrong with being self indulgent when you're right?

 

[Alastor]

Let's just go by KB's logic that a clean finish would cause both of them to lose heat.

In the Ambrose/Wyatt feud both of them can't lose or both will lose heat. So who will come out to interfere so we get a false finish in the blowoff again?

Kane?

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Rollins isn't treated like a star? He's beating up Randy Orton and winning a PPV main event. That's star treatment if I've ever seen it.

Let's ask the fans if they see Rollins as more of a star after this feud. This thread alone proves that point untrue.

Protecting everyone is what keeps people like Ambrose from being like Ryback. It's smart and actually forward thinking instead of just giving Ambrose a win because he's getting cheered now.

It also prevents them from getting elevated, it prevents them from becoming more popular, it prevents them from becoming a star and ultimately becoming a draw of some sort. This shit causes more damage than it helps and if you don't believe me then perhaps you can explain why business isn't up to par, explain why ratings are down, explain why after 10 years their only stars are still Cena and Orton (and even Orton is a stretch at this point).

Not everyone can be a star, it just doesn't work that way, therefore if some people need to take a hit in order for others to be perceived as a bigger deal by the fans then so be it.

 

[klunderbunker]

So you admit that it's ridiculous? Choose your words carefully.



I'm not buying it. I think putting Ambrose over here would do big things for him while a loss wouldn't hurt Rollins in the slightest. He's starting his feud with Orton anyway which, from a credibility standpoint, is already a big step up.

Maybe I'm over-estimating what it could have done for Ambrose but I'm 100% certain that a loss would have zero effect on Rollins.

I'm not even sure what you're asking about with the first part.

You're overestimating it by quite a bit and underestimating the loss factor.

Orton is a top level guy and I don't think that's up for debate. Therefore, he needs to be facing top opponents. Rollins coming off a loss the first time he's on his own (meaning without Shield, not without backup) doesn't make him a top opponent. It makes him a guy that has failed and would be cannon fodder for Orton.

 

[The Butcher]

In the end, whether it was logical or not or elevated somebody or not, it's clear that the majority of people here didn't like it. I didn't either. It just wasn't satisfying. Unsatisfied customers are not best for business.

 

[The Holy One]

I think the argument is it could have been better and not that it didn't help. Like if this was a finish to the feud let there be a clean finish and let the two of them move on to new storylines.

Rock vs HHH ended with a low blow from Chyna. Both men went on to main event Wrestlemania several times.

No need for this BS finish to leave everything hanging. This is the reason why Cena gets so much hate from how he is booked.

Wait what? I thought it was b/c he was winning clean was the cause of the hate not the other way around. Also, I don't know if you know this or not as it may be a secret, I'm not sure, but heels are supposed to not win by doing things the fair way, it's kind of what makes them a bad guy. Edge, as a perfect example, made a career off of this and it seemed to work out pretty well for him.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

HHH and Stephanie are quite active. There's more to a wrestling company that wrestlers.

And what's wrong with being self indulgent when you're right?

No they're not, they're untouchable heels, there's a difference.

Problem is your opinion holds no weight to being right or wrong because it's an opinion.

 

[klunderbunker]

Let's just go by KB's logic that a clean finish would cause both of them to lose heat.

In the Ambrose/Wyatt feud both of them can't lose or both will lose heat. So who will come out to interfere so we get a false finish in the blowoff again?

Kane?

Wyatt doesn't have heat to lose right now. You can job either guy because they can bounce back with the strength of their characters. Rollins doesn't have that luxury.

Let's ask the fans if they see Rollins as more of a star after this feud. This thread alone proves that point untrue.

Actually it proves very little as most of you show very little common sense or logic about wrestling. However, let's take a quick look at what you're saying.

Coming into this feud, Rollins has won a Money in the Bank briefcase in his singles career. Now he's won inside the Cell, which in WWE is one of the top matches of the year.

If you don't see why that elevates him, I can't help you.

It also prevents them from getting elevated, it prevents them from becoming more popular, it prevents them from becoming a star and ultimately becoming a draw of some sort. This shit causes more damage than it helps and if you don't believe me then perhaps you can explain why business isn't up to par, explain why ratings are down, explain why after 10 years their only stars are still Cena and Orton (and even Orton is a stretch at this point).

OOO question time.

Business isn't up to par: if you think WWE's business not being up to par is mostly based on their product, you don't understand the wrestling business.

Ratings being down: could it be due to a thing called Monday Night Football? Or a thing called "there are a million channels now and ratings aren't comparable to even what they were five years ago?" Nah. It must be Ambrose losing.

Other stars: Well Bryan has a broken neck, Lesnar is a part time star and still bigger than almost anyone in the company, Punk didn't like the schedule and Reigns is injured. That would be four people who either are stars or are on the brink of becoming stars and three of them currently aren't due to issues outside of WWE's control.

Anything else you'd like to know about?[/quote]

Not everyone can be a star, it just doesn't work that way, therefore if some people need to take a hit in order for others to be perceived as a bigger deal by the fans then so be it.

Of course they can't. Ambrose took that hit tonight and Rollins looks like a bigger deal because of it.

 

[The Holy One]

I was thinking Orton - Rollins at Mania. With Orton passing on his 'heel' torch to Rollins. Even HHH compared the two in the backstage segment they had today.

This Mania has loads of possible combinations especially when Reigns and Bryan return.

That would be good too, but from the way it's looking Orton/Rollins is looking to end at the Royal Rumble. I do too look at the possible matches at Mania even more so if you involve guys like HHH and Batista.

 

[Alastor]

Rock vs HHH ended with a low blow from Chyna. Both men went on to main event Wrestlemania several times.

Was the finish satisfying compared to a clean finish?

Wait what? I thought it was b/c he was winning clean was the cause of the hate not the other way around. Also, I don't know if you know this or not as it may be a secret, I'm not sure, but heels are supposed to not win by doing things the fair way, it's kind of what makes them a bad guy. Edge, as a perfect example, made a career off of this and it seemed to work out pretty well for him.

The hate is from him not losing cleanly in the eyes of his haters. Which is exactly how they are booking Ambrose tonight.

 

[klunderbunker]

In the end, whether it was logical or not or elevated somebody or not, it's clear that the majority of people here didn't like it. I didn't either. It just wasn't satisfying. Unsatisfied customers are not best for business.

And this is a horrible group of people to judge that on. These fans are going to watch WWE almost all the time and clearly care about it more than most based on being on this forum. Yeah they'll complain, yeah a lot of them will swear to never watch again. Then it's Monday night and it's time for Raw.

 

[klunderbunker]

No they're not, they're untouchable heels, there's a difference.

Problem is your opinion holds no weight to being right or wrong because it's an opinion.

Really? So Bryan didn't touch HHH with a running knee at Wrestlemania this year and prove himself completely right? I must need stronger glasses because I'm sure I saw that.

I've been waiting on the "it's an opinion" line to come up. It wouldn't have felt right without it.

 

[Alastor]

Wyatt doesn't have heat to lose right now. You can job either guy because they can bounce back with the strength of their characters. Rollins doesn't have that luxury.

If Ambrose can bounce back why the need to protect him tonight?

 

[klunderbunker]

If Ambrose can bounce back why the need to protect him tonight?

Because heels don't win big matches clean most of the time. If they did, they wouldn't be heels.

 

[#tamale]

explain why after 10 years their only stars are still Cena and Orton (and even Orton is a stretch at this point).

This statement is misleading.

CM Punk
Edge
Shawn Michaels
Undertaker
HHH
Batista
Rey Mysterio
Chris Jericho
Daniel Bryan

All stars of the past 10 years. Orton and Cena are what's left due to the circumstances surrounding them. A better question would be why hasn't the WWE made any new stars in the past 3 or 4 years and even then, they have had quite a few.

 

[Alastor]

All stars of the past 10 years. Orton and Cena are what's left due to the circumstances surrounding them. A better question would be why hasn't the WWE made any new stars in the past 3 or 4 years and even then, they have had quite a few.

Punk and Bryan were made in the past 3 or 4 years. Reigns/Ambrose/Rollins are the next wave. I think the question is why didn't they create more stars the couple of years before those two.

And the answer is probably the Rock/Brock leaving in their prime effect. And also Jeff Hardy was a druggie.

 

[Alastor]

Because heels don't win big matches clean most of the time. If they did, they wouldn't be heels.

Doesn't answer the question of why Ambrose needed to be protected.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

Really? So Bryan didn't touch HHH with a running knee at Wrestlemania this year and prove himself completely right? I must need stronger glasses because I'm sure I saw that.

I've been waiting on the "it's an opinion" line to come up. It wouldn't have felt right without it.

Is HHH wrestling every show and letting everyone hit him? No? Exactly. You're confusing Mania with any other PPV.

I'm sure it makes you feel better about yours not having a solid basis off anything besides personal preference.

 

[The Holy One]

Wait, now WWE hasn't made any stars in the past 10 years? So we're going to act like this man doesn't exist now:

[YOUTUBE]JaPpmXF2_-w[/YOUTUBE]

Whom appears to be doing quite well getting those movie roles off of his WWE days.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Wyatt doesn't have heat to lose right now. You can job either guy because they can bounce back with the strength of their characters. Rollins doesn't have that luxury.



Actually it proves very little as most of you show very little common sense or logic about wrestling. However, let's take a quick look at what you're saying.

Coming into this feud, Rollins has won a Money in the Bank briefcase in his singles career. Now he's won inside the Cell, which in WWE is one of the top matches of the year.

If you don't see why that elevates him, I can't help you.



OOO question time.

Business isn't up to par: if you think WWE's business not being up to par is mostly based on their product, you don't understand the wrestling business.

Ratings being down: could it be due to a thing called Monday Night Football? Or a thing called "there are a million channels now and ratings aren't comparable to even what they were five years ago?" Nah. It must be Ambrose losing.

Other stars: Well Bryan has a broken neck, Lesnar is a part time star and still bigger than almost anyone in the company, Punk didn't like the schedule and Reigns is injured. That would be four people who either are stars or are on the brink of becoming stars and three of them currently aren't due to issues outside of WWE's control.

Anything else you'd like to know about?

Of course they can't. Ambrose took that hit tonight and Rollins looks like a bigger deal because of it.[/QUOTE]

Rollins hasn't won shit without a ton of help. He may have won those matches but it hasn't changed the perception in the fans eyes at all. Say what you want about fans not understanding wrestling because that is a dumb thing to say. It's not the fans job to understand the business it's the businesses job to understand the fans, if you can't figure that out then I can't help you.

I understand that outside things caused business to be down (mostly making dumb promises to stock holders they couldn't keep) but if their product was in fact better then they would have had a much better chance to keep those promises, and if they did keep those promises then they would be rolling in dough right now.

Yeah because ratings were GREAT before MNF started. When did I say that had anything to do with Ambrose losing? It's their lack of direction as a whole.

Lesnar is their top star whether WWE likes it or not. Punk could very well still be around if WWE wasn't so fucking stupid with their booking, Bryan would have been a much bigger star if they didn't keep pulling out with him and the only people who sees Reigns as a star is Vince, HHH and the yes men they surround themselves with.

So Bray beating Ambrose for Rollins somehow makes Rollins a bigger deal? How?

 

[klunderbunker]

Doesn't answer the question of why Ambrose needed to be protected.

Dear goodness.

He lost so that Rollins wouldn't beat him clean, thereby giving Rollins a reason to be booed and Ambrose a path to his next feud. Is that really so hard to comprehend?

Is HHH wrestling every show and letting everyone hit him? No? Exactly. You're confusing Mania with any other PPV.

I'm sure it makes you feel better about yours not having a solid basis off anything besides personal preference.

DANG. My glasses really do suck because not only am I imagining Wrestlemania, but Extreme Rules and Payback as well.

Any other shows you want to ignore while failing to prove your point?

 

[Poop Master Flex]

This statement is misleading.

CM Punk
Edge
Shawn Michaels
Undertaker
HHH
Batista
Rey Mysterio
Chris Jericho
Daniel Bryan

All stars of the past 10 years. Orton and Cena are what's left due to the circumstances surrounding them. A better question would be why hasn't the WWE made any new stars in the past 3 or 4 years and even then, they have had quite a few.

Outside of Punk and Bryan literally all those stars were made either at the same time, or before Cena became a star. In the case of Bryan and Punk they both could've been much bigger stars if WWE actually committed to them when the fans were literally screaming at them to do so.

 

[klunderbunker]

Of course they can't. Ambrose took that hit tonight and Rollins looks like a bigger deal because of it.

Rollins hasn't won shit without a ton of help. He may have won those matches but it hasn't changed the perception in the fans eyes at all. Say what you want about fans not understanding wrestling because that is a dumb thing to say. It's not the fans job to understand the business it's the businesses job to understand the fans, if you can't figure that out then I can't help you.

I understand that outside things caused business to be down (mostly making dumb promises to stock holders they couldn't keep) but if their product was in fact better then they would have had a much better chance to keep those promises, and if they did keep those promises then they would be rolling in dough right now.

Yeah because ratings were GREAT before MNF started. When did I say that had anything to do with Ambrose losing? It's their lack of direction as a whole.

Lesnar is their top star whether WWE likes it or not. Punk could very well still be around if WWE wasn't so fucking stupid with their booking, Bryan would have been a much bigger star if they didn't keep pulling out with him and the only people who sees Reigns as a star is Vince, HHH and the yes men they surround themselves with.

So Bray beating Ambrose for Rollins somehow makes Rollins a bigger deal? How?[/QUOTE]

To keep this short:

True it's not the fans' job to know business. It's the fans' job to not be stupid either.

As for the rest.....thank goodness you said no when Sly asked you to join the staff.

 

[klunderbunker]

Outside of Punk and Bryan literally all those stars were made either at the same time, or before Cena became a star. In the case of Bryan and Punk they both could've been much bigger stars if WWE actually committed to them when the fans were literally screaming at them to do so.

Daniel Bryan won the WWE Title in the main event of Wrestlemania with 70,000+ people chanting YES. You are an imbecile.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Rollins hasn't won shit without a ton of help. He may have won those matches but it hasn't changed the perception in the fans eyes at all. Say what you want about fans not understanding wrestling because that is a dumb thing to say. It's not the fans job to understand the business it's the businesses job to understand the fans, if you can't figure that out then I can't help you.

I understand that outside things caused business to be down (mostly making dumb promises to stock holders they couldn't keep) but if their product was in fact better then they would have had a much better chance to keep those promises, and if they did keep those promises then they would be rolling in dough right now.

Yeah because ratings were GREAT before MNF started. When did I say that had anything to do with Ambrose losing? It's their lack of direction as a whole.

Lesnar is their top star whether WWE likes it or not. Punk could very well still be around if WWE wasn't so fucking stupid with their booking, Bryan would have been a much bigger star if they didn't keep pulling out with him and the only people who sees Reigns as a star is Vince, HHH and the yes men they surround themselves with.

So Bray beating Ambrose for Rollins somehow makes Rollins a bigger deal? How?

To keep this short:

True it's not the fans' job to know business. It's the fans' job to not be stupid either.

As for the rest.....thank goodness you said no when Sly asked you to join the staff.[/QUOTE]

So you can't debate so you call dumb and run. Yep, sounds like something you'd do.