Have People Been Too Hard on TNA?

[BK Styles]

So you're looking for a subjective opinion on the subjective opinions of "some fans". This is about as broad a question that I have seen in any non-spam section. It is so broad that I recommend that the only opinion that you read is your own since it is the only one that truly matters and all other opinions are unlikely to provide any constructive argument.

But to answer your question, the answer is "of course". "Some fans" are unfair. I consider myself "some fan" or at least "someone" that used to be a "fan" and I admit that I have been unfair. But I also know that I turned on the show a few weeks ago and saw Garrett "I just wish I had Matt Hardy's charisma" Bischoff winning a match. That is a terrible thing. I don't know if it is unfair to use the word "terrible". It is certainly dramatic and compared to someone's dog getting run over by a car it is not "terrible" but that is how I feel when I see Garrett "My dad is no longer over, why would anyone expect me to get over?" Bischoff on my TV.

I recommend that you stick to more specific, less open-ended thread topics. Ryan86 is someone that might be a good example for you to learn how to start a thread that will generate actual discussion.

I'm not arguing that elements of the programming are lacklustre at best, and I compltetely agree with Garrett "can't think of anything funny right now, will get back to you" Bischoff. But I have stated that the point I am making is the position of the company; regardless of ratings, content, things wrong within the company, etc.

If you think it's a broad question then fair enough. It was just a question that popped into my head that I thought I would ask, and I'm fortunate that there are poeple on here who have an opinion on this topic, and felt the desire to post in here.

And ryan86...I'm trying to work out if that's an insult. He is in prison, after all.

 

[Lowdown]

I say that people have been hard or critical on TNA for a long time. For some folks, its just not their cup of tea. If they don't like it, they don't like it and that's cool. But then you got some fans or WWE marks that bash the entire TNA fanbase purely because of their "loyalty" to WWE. That's unfair to wrestling fans as a whole. There will always be someone that throws in the casual "TNA sucks" rant simply being that they're not a fan or they don't care for the talent. What gets me is the ex-WWE guys that folks complain about. I'm a believer that if you don't like a product, don't watch. And don't ride others for their preference of one over the other.

 

[Toewser]

TNA brings it totally on themselves. Their the ones that constantly pretend they are at the same level of the WWE or better, yet fail to deliver on all fronts. Most of their 'fanbase' are just hypocritical Internet smarks that bash the WWE anytime they get a chance to, yet pretend that TNA is providing a flawless, superior product. ROH is a way better alternative for in-ring action and the company has done a far more impressive job of establishing its product without desperately imitating dead wrestling companies from the 90's.
Case in point is Jay Lethal, TNA had him as a cheap ripoff of 'Macho Man' Randy Savage and inhibited his in ring ability. He goes to ROH and showed that he has tremendous in ring ability.
If Panda Energy was shrewd enough to back ROH instead of TNA, TNA would of been out of business by now and ROH would be strongly contending against the WWE. Then again, Ditzy Carter would of probably slowly run ROH into the ground.

 

[Toewser]

No the TNA fans rightfully get bashed because they criticize the WWE and then provide lame excuses whenever their company does the same exact thing. A good case is bashing the WWE for comedy schtick, yet pretending the EY - Scott Baio tripe was the greatest thing ever.

 

[theshadowranger]

TNA brings it totally on themselves. Their the ones that constantly pretend they are at the same level of the WWE or better, yet fail to deliver on all fronts. Most of their 'fanbase' are just hypocritical Internet smarks that bash the WWE anytime they get a chance to, yet pretend that TNA is providing a flawless, superior product. ROH is a way better alternative for in-ring action and the company has done a far more impressive job of establishing its product without desperately imitating dead wrestling companies from the 90's.
Case in point is Jay Lethal, TNA had him as a cheap ripoff of 'Macho Man' Randy Savage and inhibited his in ring ability. He goes to ROH and showed that he has tremendous in ring ability.
If Panda Energy was shrewd enough to back ROH instead of TNA, TNA would of been out of business by now and ROH would be strongly contending against the WWE. Then again, Ditzy Carter would of probably slowly run ROH into the ground.

If ROH is so great, then why hasn't someone financially backed them like TNA? Sinclair bought the company but judging by the new show, they haven't put much money into the project.

Lethal shows his in ring ability in ROH yes, but he's as dull as dirt.

 

[J.J.]

First of all, the ratings argument is starting to go out the window as WWE has gone from triple to barely to not to far above TNA. If it was even relevant before as the highest rated shows on TV have gone from 33 at the beginning of WWE's rise to power to 8.8 this year (American Idol by the way) so when you look at it objectively from a business standpoint anything 1.0 to 1.5 is pretty damn good considering the WWE hovers around 3.0 lately, both shows actually have great ratings considering all the other shows on TV. Second let us not forget that TNA Originals like AJ, Daniels, JJ, guys like EY and Bobby Roode not only wrestled in WWF/E either full time or in an attempt to sign, including Kaz who was being poised to be something in the cruiserweights till it was demphasized, but some of them includingAJ, Daniels, JJ, and a few guys who were there in the PPV days where WCW guys. So the pushing former WWE/WCW wrestlers argument is dumb as they did it "when it was good" just no one remembers the guys from Heat/Velocity/Etc. So in short, yes wrestling "fans" are too hard on TNA.

AJ never really got a lot of TV time in WCW and when he began to appear WCW had long been in a decline, he roughly came in around the time WWE was buying out WCW. So his run in WCW was blink and you miss him type or ordeal. I think mainly he was brought in to help add to their at the time newly made Cruiserweight Tag division.

Right now TNA will not be competing with WWE as they are in recent years trying to test international waters(UK and now India). I'm glad they're crowning their homegrown talent more these days instead of relying heavily on former WWE talent with the same gimmick used in WWE. WCW did this as well anf sadly their beast homegrown star was Bill Goldberg.

They're just not ready to compete with WWE, which has been on cruise control for many years now. I stopped looking at TNA for 3 years when I saw they were going to attempt to turn D'Lo Brown into a main eventer. Thankfully someone in creative control came to their senses. Hogan was a good sign and draw based off his name alone. Had this been 15-20 years ago and Hogan and Flair signed then I would say look out WWE. But the two of them have already cemented their legacy in the WWE HOF before even signing with TNA.

That's why I used to give TNA criticism. But now that guys like James Storm and Bobby Roode are getting the right recognition I can respect the product more. If either of their core wrestlers from the beginning leave, then ill criticize again.

 

[Trill Co$by]

I'm going to flat out say that there's no other way to put it, than to agree that TNA has been overly criticized by fans in more negative ways than positive. For starters, people will swear up and down that TNA is copying off of WWE just because one simple thing is like WWE, but will ignore the fact that their outcomes are usually different. They will also bash TNA for taking WWE stars and completely ignore the fact that CM Punk, Mickie James, and Kaval all got television exposure FROM TNA. They ignore the fact that R-Truth got popular and was proven to be a legit world title contender BECAUSE of TNA... and the fact that many WWE legends and current stars have credited TNA's roster as being a great roster. Hell, Stone Cold has even called Samoa Joe the best in wrestling today... how do you get a better compliment than that?

For example, WWE introduced the MitB concept years ago and since then it's become the most predictable piece of WWE television next to Cena getting dual chants. TNA introduces the FoF concept which is a play on the MitB, but in a far better atmosphere because they find ways to build not one, not two, not three, but FOUR stars in the same process. Yeah, one would get "fired" but eventually that person would return red hot and be all over the scene... My prime example, Daniels. And yet, people still called it the "MitB ripoff" and ignored the fact that Petey Williams at one point was considered Main Event material because of that.

Another example of people being too harsh is that they constantly criticize TNA for not making new talent and putting over WWE "rejects"... yet they all forget that every major storyline that has gone down has produced more stars than before. Team 3D put teams like Beer Money and MCMG on the map. Christian Cage alone turned Monty Brown, Chris Harris, Kazarian, and AJ into spotlight stars. Kurt Angle made Samoa Joe a true submission specialist and further made AJ into a star. Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair alone took TEN TNA originals (Gunner, Murphy, Douglas Williams, AJ Styles, Roode, Storm, Daniels, Rob Terry, Kazarian, and Abyss) and tried to make them into big name players. They've built Crimson as a legit badass by giving him an undefeated streak... but even still, if you ask anybody about what they think of TNA they're more than likely going to quickly say "They need more stars".

And I'm going to be honest, at times, I too catch myself bashing them a bit.. but then I stop and think to myself about how much TNA has done and how well they've done it. For starters, they are currently 9 years strong into their development, and in the summer of 2012 they'll have made it a full 10 years... by that nature alone TNA has already lasted longer than ECW and WCW. And in the last few years, they've managed to STILL be on air despite the fact that they're on quite possibly the worst network when it comes to hosting a wrestling promotion.

TNA gets a lot of flack, but when you put it into perspective, the pros out weigh the cons by a far greater margin that people care to give them credit for.

 

[MB1025]

I think it depends on what aspect of TNA we're talking about. For example, when Hulk Hogan signed with TNA we were sold the notion that he and Bischoff were going to be the difference makers they needed to take TNA to the next level. How many years later is it now and if we look at the ratings that really hasn't worked in their favor. In fact, their ratings, more of less overall, have remained flat. Have they seen spikes in ratings? Yes. But for the most part, they've remained mostly the same.

We were told that it was the young guys who would get a push, but that took a very long time to materialize and now that Hogan and Bischoff have finally taken a back seat, we are seeing some better results (IMHO) on tv. FTR I was never a proponent of the idea that using Hogan, Bischoff, Flair et al in storylines was going to produce results.

Now are people too hard on TNA? Not in my opinion based on what we were told we would see once Hogan et al arrived on the scene.

Yes if we keep living in the ratings bubble we can keep having thoughts like this. Until you or anyone can show me what Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff have done or not done for TNA can we stop with these types of comments. I swear it is always the same shit. Hulk hogan came to TNA, the ratings didn't improve, he is an obvious failure. Yet let's ignore other possibilities of success like merchandise and sponsorships which could be a factor.

 

[Scofield]

I don't think people have been too hard with TNA. People ARE entitled to their opinions. With that being said, I honestly can't comment much on TNA's product on these forums. Why? I just have no interest at all in TNA's product. No I am not a WWE junky. I love all sorts of wrestling, i love the whole wrestling business in general but there is simply nothing that draws me to TNA Wrestling.

Yes I do like WWE as the aspects towards their product & having a well established global base but in all honesty I am with Batista when he says their product is bad right now. Have I converted over to TNA? No. I admit WWE is bad product right now but if I can't be bothered to give TNA a chance after viewing it a few times it kind of tells you something.

 

[Rayne]

Yes if we keep living in the ratings bubble we can keep having thoughts like this. Until you or anyone can show me what Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff have done or not done for TNA can we stop with these types of comments. I swear it is always the same shit. Hulk hogan came to TNA, the ratings didn't improve, he is an obvious failure. Yet let's ignore other possibilities of success like merchandise and sponsorships which could be a factor.

Oh, do I love statements like this.

We can all just stop with the "until you can absolutely prove this you aren't allowed to talk" bullshit. TNA/IW is deliberately opaque with their finances. (Free investment tip: The only good business to hide a profit is drug dealing. Everywhere else, it's a red flag.) Because they are opaque with their finances, there exists no way to financially prove what the Hulk + Eric Show has "done" for TNA/IW, which is the only reason people keep going "but prove it!!!" Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

Let me explain something about the "ratings bubble" from someone who actually works in advertising. Ratings are everything. I'm not sure you understood that, or you may have some disagreement, so let me repeat- and this is not a negotiable point or opinion, this is one of the immutable facts of television: Ratings are everything. Virtually every other source of profit a television entertainment company has can be traced back to ratings, as they are the most direct measure you have of how many people are interested in your product. Merchandising, ticket sales, and, shock of shock, sponsorships follow the ratings. (Why would a sponsor pay more money to advertise on a show that's being viewed by the same amount of people?!?!?!) So if you're going to increase profit without moving the ratings, you need to get each of your consumers to spend more. PPV numbers aren't up, and are frequently so low that they aren't reported. There hasn't been any heavy promotion of a variety of new TNA/IW merchandise, which suggests that they have a large backstock and it isn't feasible to push out new products. (A new t-shirt for a wrestler does not qualify, for this instance. A growing company pushing lots of merchandise has new items appearing frequently, as they are able to sell through the stock they have and reinvest.) They are repeatedly investing in projects, then aborting their plans before they are developed. (See: ReAction, road touring, Mr. Anderson, and watch TNA India to see it in motion.) Can you point to a portion of TNA/IW which has grown in the past two years? Don't feed me the standard bullshit like "better production values" that doesn't equal profit- after two years of Eric Bischoff, I want to see what kind of money he's brought in. I've looked hard, and I can't find it.

I haven't ignored those factors you've mentioned. I've thought long and hard about them; I don't believe that you've thought of them as anything besides possible reasons to validate a point of view you've already possessed. For a long time, I wanted TNA/IW to succeed, as competition is good for business in general. I have finally reached the point where I'm concluding that TNA/IW can't succeed, at least under current management. It is a shell game, an empty house of cards. Money is being moved around plenty, but I can't see where it's turning into more money.

For the people who want to talk about being entertained by TNA/IW, more power to you. I find your entertainment to be dull and bland, but more power to you. But please, folks, don't come in here talking about some "ratings bubble", like it's an imaginary part of the world people live in that doesn't matter. You look like an ass doing that to the people that actually know better; if you are after the bottom 25% of the boards that don't, you may have them.

 

[nosnoh]

I think what Frustrates me is that they have so much talent, a tv spot, lots of money for advertising and they arent doing jack s***.

they go for surprise, and surprise is not good for business unless its a heel or face turn kinda thing. They had Jeff F'n Hardy Coming to TNA on January 4th, but for some god knows reason they kept it quite. What they should have done was advertise the hell out of that, he was extremly popular and they wasted an opportunity, what a waste to boost the ratings. And they did the same with RVD.

I will say this with a straight face, they have the BEST wrestlers on the planet. Yeah I said it. The have the best wrestler today(Aj styles), Best all around mic talker/wrestler/look wrestler today(Bobby Rhoode), Some of the best tag teams until they split them up, The best Merchandise seller(Jeff Hardy), best Strong Style and intimidating wrestler(Samoa Joe), Best High Flyers(anyone from x division), and I could go on and on. How can you not be getting at least 2 ratings with stars like that? Because their booking and business decisions suck. Their marketing sucks. Just everything in general, why are we still in the impact zone after 5 years? Cmon seriously? Why is steiner, rvd, sting, hogan, flair, ect still here and getting spots over all this talent that i mentioned when they are over the hill? theres more i could list but mainly, they just frustrate me because they have so much but bring so little, I wish Paul Heyman got control because he would make something out of it.

 

[He's Phenomenal]

I don't think there's any doubting some people are far too harsh on TNA and just offer mindless, senseless, criticism for the sake of it. The product has declined a fair bit over the last few months but if you look at TNA from an objective point of view, they are a hugely successful wrestling promotion. They started 10 years ago. What promotion (other than WWE which has been going for God knows how long?) is even anywhere near the level of TNA? How many wrestling shows are shown Worldwide on National TV? iMPACT, Smackdown and Raw is all I can think of. The comparisons with WWE will always be there, as they are the only other major wrestling promotion (which again speaks volumes of how well TNA have done), but are the comparisons even fair? When TNA have over half a century of history then yea. A more realistic comparison would be with ROH, and TNA are a million miles ahead of them.

As for the product itself, which internet fans seem to criticise a lot, if you don't like a TV show just simply don't watch it. It's really not that hard to avoid a program you don't like. I'm not enjoying TNA now as much as I have in the past, but instead of moaning about everything they do I've simply just not watched it as much. I stopped enjoying WWE so I don't watch it. I didn't enjoy ROH when I gave it a go, so I don't watch it. I lost interest in NWA Hollywood, so I don't watch it anymore. If you don't like TNA, instead of bashing almost everything they do, just stop watching it.

There's always going to be things that a particular fan doesn't enjoy and that's fair enough. There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but it's pretty pathetic when "fans" have agendas and just spout crap about something that really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. And that seems to be the theme on the net.

 

[ABMorales787]

The thing that has scarred TNA since it's inception has been it's timing. It came in a time when WWE dominated all. Imagine if ECW and WCW where still up when TNA came around and THEN fell? TNA would've been in a FAR greater position with all that talent looking for a new place to call home. But that didn't happen and WWE became a powerhouse that monopolized pro wrestling. Not that there's nothing wrong that makes it hard for any up and coming company that comes around as ROH can say.

TNA is built on the scraps of the Monday Night Wars. What WWE didn't pick, TNA did and grew from it. It's no wonder why some detest it. It's different and still fights for establishment. It's like that bastard child that was born on the wrong time. One year too late.