Has the WWE become too overproduced?

[shooter_mcgavin]

I've been meaning to ask about this but recently I kind of feel like the WWE, and how they produce TV and PPV's, feel a bit too over produced.

Hear me out ...

When you watch UFC, Boxing, or even any other sports shows there's no denying that the production has always been updated to keep up with the times. However the constant in these programmes has always been to keep things at a minimum to the point it becomes an entertaining sports show rather than a live entertainment show.

This is the problem I have had with the WWE even as back as the early 2000's when the WWE started adding more things to the set with the monitors next to the titantron to what we have now. When you look at a WWE set all the bells and whistles comes off as a distraction and now with the video screens in the turnbuckle the sets are starting to jump the shark.

This is a case of too much being a good thing IMO. We all know wrestling is scripted and staged but even so, as fans, we like to think there's some semblance of reality when watching RAW, SDL, or a PPV since in a pro-wrestling event fans want to see people fighting (thus a requirement or reality).

Problem is now is that the production from the sets, to the opening videos, and even how shows cuts backstage feel more like a scripted TV show than a contact sports show.

Take a look at a RAW set in 1998

It's simple, effective, has a ramp, a ring, and a huge screen for entrance videos and backstage segments.

Now look at a RAW set today.

The multi screens, the over lighting, among others it feels more like a variety show from SNL than a wrestling show with people looking for blood and violence.

Take a look at the RAW opening in 1998

[YOUTUBE]KiCQ_3UvEvY[/YOUTUBE]

Then look at the RAW opening today

[YOUTUBE]hpSx4HY3fjE[/YOUTUBE]

One feels grungy and aggressive the feeling you are supposed to feel watching a show involving fighting and people beating each other up. The other does not it feels like "sit back and enjoy the show" type opening. Sure the latter works better for a mainstream product but we all know Wrestling, especially now, isn't mainstream.

I guess the point is WWE produces things to clean and tidy now that the feeling of spontaneity is lost. How can we imagine Wrestling feeling real if everything is overly product where the product feels tidy and neat? I mean looking at UFC and Boxing there's still a look of "ditryness" when watching their shows.

I guess it's the same concept as George Lucas' "the used future" in which the sets of Star Wars were intentionally made to look dirty so the movies can sell the authenticity of it's universe. If you made Star Wars too polished you lose that sense of realism.

It's not just sets and videos either it's the presentation. I know WWE still feels we need a story to carry a wrestling match or fight but this can be done without over producing a show.

One recent example is Wrestlemania 33. Why did Triple H and Seth Rollins need to have extravagant entrances when the match became so personal or heated that the match had to become a non-sanctioned match. You would think Triple H would be all business putting Rollins down for good and Rollins would be so mad for Triple H ending his career that he would run down the ramp and start wailing on Triple H.

Of course its WM so WWE wants to make a spectacle for the sake of it.

Compare this to WM X-Seven with Rock vs. Austin. These were the biggest superstars in that era, larger than life. When they entered the ring there was no fancy entrance, these two meant business so both just wailed one each other the moment both entered the ring.

Anyways I am not saying WWE should do things the way it was in older eras but I think the WWE should scaled down in having to over produced their product.

What do you guys think?

 

[The Life Of Pablo Ren]

I don't think so. The stage set-up is nothing more than the times and technology changing. You're comparing sets that are almost 20 years apart. Plus it's not like they just flipped a switch and went from the 1998 set to the 2017 one overnight, it was a gradual process.

The same goes for the intro video packages, one was made to represent the product in 1998, the other was made to represent the product in 2017. One feels less grungy and aggressive because... that's how things are now. It would make little to sense to have an Attitude Era-esque intro for today's product.

If this comes off as insulting I apologize but you're wasting your fingers comparing it to UFC, WWE is spectacle. It's always been about spectacle. It's entertainment first, wrestling second. They have all those flashy entrances because that's who they want to be. You can't present yourself as UFC when you aren't UFC and the world knows you aren't UFC. A lot of the entertainment value comes from the production, presentation is very important for the overall product. If your production is boring, and have a boring product to boot, you're in really big trouble as a company.

 

[The Perfect Max]

There's two ways to look at it really. The first is purely from a wrestling perspective, and the second is from the entertainment perspective which WWE really suits nowadays. The grungy and aggressive nature of the Attitude Era production is gone because that's not wrestling anymore. Don't get me wrong, I much prefer that look. The grit is really what wrestling was all about at that time, but that's not WWE anymore. The over-produced spectacle that is every televised WWE event serves the purpose in reminding everybody watching that this is something special. For a hardcore wrestling fan or a fan from way back then, I'm sure they'd probably agree that more is less when it comes to the production, but for anybody else watching WWE programming, it shows how much of a big deal everything is. The glossy and pretty vibe that comes through oozes value, and anybody not accustom to WWE programming will immediately get that, because that's how all television programming is produced today - with the latest technology.

I 100% agree with your example that the whole shtick with Triple H and Seth Rollins' entrances killed the vibe for the match, but just imagine how somebody who doesn't watch wrestling that often would feel in response? It would be breath-taking I imagine. I suppose in that sense, particularly with WrestleMania (which is the biggest production of course), it's only like the Super Bowl every year. We get extended breaks with big name guests to fill out unnecessary spots for people who maybe don't always watch football. And the reality is that many football fans just want to see the game. But the added production gets bigger every year because football gets bigger every year. WWE gets bigger in the same way. And that has now translated to all televised productions because that's how it is. The same goes for live events - these even have their own titantrons. It's the nature of the game today.

I suppose, without the production, how would the programming come across to viewers? I find myself every week while Raw thinking the best thing on the screen is the fancy production. And that's sad, but true.

 

[LBGetBack]

Yes. Also the style of camera work used now really sucks. It's disorienting to watch.

Also, a long time pet peeve of mine is when someone's music hits while doing a run in. So stupid. Like, were they waiting to run in until their music hit? Did they go press play themselves before running out? It makes zero sense and is completely unnecessary. I miss when run ins were music-less. Just another little thing that takes me out of the product.

 

[HeenanGorilla]

Yes. Also the style of camera work used now really sucks. It's disorienting to watch.

Also, a long time pet peeve of mine is when someone's music hits while doing a run in. So stupid. Like, were they waiting to run in until their music hit? Did they go press play themselves before running out? It makes zero sense and is completely unnecessary. I miss when run ins were music-less. Just another little thing that takes me out of the product.

Absolutely! Having entrance themes during the Royal Rumble, for example, was an improvement. But during run-ins, it is ridiculous. Also, are you referring to the zoom in and out of the cameras? If so, I agree with your post 100%!

I agree that the technological advances have gone too far for wrestling. BUT, as others have said, this is more of an entertainment company now. I thought the HHH/Rollins example was a good one. I liked Rollins' graphic down the ramp...but not for that match. It's the old blood feud match that starts with a lock up, or waiting for the ref to check their waist and boots for foreign objects. No! Run to the ring like this is your first chance to get your hands on them.

Personally, I almost always lean towards the old school. But some new things seem fun. As a kid, I loved how the apron showed the name of the PPV event. Nice and simple. But, I have to admit I kind of like the digital apron now. Technology, in general, can get too fancy for me. I am just one of those people who usually prefers things the way they used to be. Not saying I am right, just for myself. I would rather a roster full of different characters and a booking committee with a clue, rather than a lazy Fatal Five Way where each participant gets to do their move set while most of the others are laying around "hurt". It's nonsense, but it's what happens today.

But hey, that's why I got the WWE Network recently. I can choose which era to watch. I can listen to good announcers, rather than Cole yelling "Superman Punch!" like an idiot each and every week. The advances may be necessary for a publicly-traded company, but seem unnecessary for a wrestling company. Them making up their minds is another post though...

 

[George Steele's Barber]

In general I like new tech and new production. Things like The New Day/Wyatt battle and Orton/Wyatt "bees on mat" were more distracting than enjoyable but overall I want new and shiny in my entertainment. Then again, I've suggested they move the entrance more center and bring back curtains.

I just disagree with the gritty feel that you are looking for. In the end these are WWE events and fans are paying a lot of money to see them live. It isn't being produced by Dean Ambrose's character if you know what I mean.

In regard to the Rollins/HHH issue, I kind of get it. But keep in mind that despite their blood feud, both have huge egos. It was perfectly reasonable for them to try and outdo everyone else on the biggest stage in wrestling.

 

[Vanilla Midget]

The biggest challenge with a constantly increasing production value is that you eventually leave yourself no where to go. In that same breath, production value has always been an aspect of what separates WWE from it competitors.

I'm certain it was at a WrestleMania when the first wheeled out the video entry ramps. No they're mainstays of weekly television. Had they been saved for the events formerly known as PPVs, they might have maintained a special feel, instead they're a fixture of Raw that just blends in like a 20 minute opening heel promo or even the titan tron itself.

There was a time when the tron was special. Video is essentially bleeding into every surface. Soon every surface on WWE tv will be video. Michael Cole will wear a video suit, the ropes will play video, everything will be a video player.

That's ridiculous of course. The production value sells WWE's position as the biggest product in sports entertainment. Imagine NFL fans wanting the league to cut down on production value, it doesn't make the most sense.

I think the desire to see WWE cut back on production stems from a place of nostalgia. We want to remember the good old days of WWE when we first started watching as fans. We associate that low budget Raw set with an expectation of quality in the program.

Kids, teens, and adults alike becoming WWE fans now will inevitably be nostalgic for the days of Roman Reigns, AJ Styles, and John Cena in the way most of us are nostalgic for the days of The Rock, Steve Austin, and Mr. McMahon.

WWE will always be updating its production value. Perhaps we wouldn't care if the product were up to our expectations. We're a fickle bunch us IWC peeps, we always look for things to discuss critically.

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

In a way, it has and it hasn't. Vincent K McMahons WWE has always been a massive leader, world wide, in innovation and creativity. When I look back from my time as a kid wrestling fan, 27 years ago now, the way WWE (then WWF) produced everything was unreal for its time. The promotional tools they used in every aspect, the way the Video packages were put together, the introduction to every TV show and PPV, or marketing for the PPVs - just look at the videos promoting any Survivor Series, Royal Rumble, WrestleMania and SummerSlam from 1987 to 1993. The 1994 to 1998 era was a bit quieter and understated for mainstream attraction, but that was a mixture of a lot of formidable challenges WWF was facing, not least WCW's rise. None the less, WWF was still doing little production things, like having a split screen showing during the match which allowed us to watch a replay (sometimes in slow motion) of move or action whilst showing what was also still happening live. The WWF was also HUGE on the World Wide Web from 1995 onwards - promoted by AOL if I recall, and even in 1998 - the WWF.com website was up there with the worlds best websites.

So what is different to then than today, aside from the fact it is a Global brand that is mainstream in terms of production? Of course, the production values are huge, and it really comes across as a well polished produced show. However, there is an awkwardness with some WWE stars, where they are not going over, and not going to get over and have limited ability to do so because of the scripts they are given. This can be wooden and off putting. There are also some awful segments which you feel is there to fill time. In a 3 hour Raw, that will always be an issue sadly. However, what WWE should do is allow some matches to go on a bit longer and be a better match and storyline to enhance mid-to lower card stars in the eyes of the audience, so they engage with these performers. Perhaps be open to working with the performers to see if they want to change any aspect of their characters. The reason I say this is - and this is something the WWF used to brag about 18 years ago - some performers buy in to the characters they create and are then more engaging. How many times do any long term fans recall hearing wrestlers say "oh the character is an extension of who I am in real life but with the volume up!" and the WWF used to promote that as a Unique selling point against WCW. I am not saying this is the same era, but a bit of thinking like that would help. I would also say that the NXT has helped in ring performances too.

So therefore, I think yes to an extent it is overproduced.

 

[Loveless]

It's been over produced since the debut of Smackdown. Making everything look slick and over scripting everything killed the live aspect. The audience, whether the WWE like it or not, is still mainly teenagers and 30-somethings and they don't want this diluted, sanitary show. I mean, it's fucking wrestling, it's people beating other people up. It's not meant to be a night at the ballet or Disney Does Fightclub. This is why I fucking hate PG, you can't take a product that is, by definition, adult and then strip away it's very nature.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Doesn't really bother me as it's not something that's overly important to me. I'm just not a bells and whistles kinda guy and that's all this stuff is to me. What I primarily care about are the wrestlers, the matches and keeping me interested in one so that I want to see the other.

Some do care about all that stuff and, as usual, WWE's damned if they do and damned if they don't. As it is, some consider it to be too slick looking but if they did cut back on the production stuff, you'd have others that'd call it second rate and cheap looking.

 

[LBGetBack]

Absolutely! Having entrance themes during the Royal Rumble, for example, was an improvement. But during run-ins, it is ridiculous. Also, are you referring to the zoom in and out of the cameras? If so, I agree with your post 100%!

I agree that the technological advances have gone too far for wrestling. BUT, as others have said, this is more of an entertainment company now. I thought the HHH/Rollins example was a good one. I liked Rollins' graphic down the ramp...but not for that match. It's the old blood feud match that starts with a lock up, or waiting for the ref to check their waist and boots for foreign objects. No! Run to the ring like this is your first chance to get your hands on them.

Personally, I almost always lean towards the old school. But some new things seem fun. As a kid, I loved how the apron showed the name of the PPV event. Nice and simple. But, I have to admit I kind of like the digital apron now. Technology, in general, can get too fancy for me. I am just one of those people who usually prefers things the way they used to be. Not saying I am right, just for myself. I would rather a roster full of different characters and a booking committee with a clue, rather than a lazy Fatal Five Way where each participant gets to do their move set while most of the others are laying around "hurt". It's nonsense, but it's what happens today.

But hey, that's why I got the WWE Network recently. I can choose which era to watch. I can listen to good announcers, rather than Cole yelling "Superman Punch!" like an idiot each and every week. The advances may be necessary for a publicly-traded company, but seem unnecessary for a wrestling company. Them making up their minds is another post though...

Yes, I'm absolutely referring to the nunerous unnecessary zoom ins with the cameras. I find it distracting, and I really don't see the point of most of them. It's like they're zooming in and changing angles just because they can. It adds nothing to the match for the viewers.

I find the presentation of the matches in the 80s and 90s so much better. Usually the commentary was, though I do have to say....I've been watching some Attitude Era stuff lately and Lawler sucked back then too. The amount of times he'd just basically squeak or squeal (AHhhhhhh! Look! Ahhhhhh!) was just obnoxious and ridiculous and not in a heelish way, but in a "ay man, STFU!" way.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Absolutely! Having entrance themes during the Royal Rumble, for example, was an improvement. But during run-ins, it is ridiculous. Also, are you referring to the zoom in and out of the cameras? If so, I agree with your post 100%!

I agree that the technological advances have gone too far for wrestling. BUT, as others have said, this is more of an entertainment company now. I thought the HHH/Rollins example was a good one. I liked Rollins' graphic down the ramp...but not for that match. It's the old blood feud match that starts with a lock up, or waiting for the ref to check their waist and boots for foreign objects. No! Run to the ring like this is your first chance to get your hands on them.

Personally, I almost always lean towards the old school. But some new things seem fun. As a kid, I loved how the apron showed the name of the PPV event. Nice and simple. But, I have to admit I kind of like the digital apron now. Technology, in general, can get too fancy for me. I am just one of those people who usually prefers things the way they used to be. Not saying I am right, just for myself. I would rather a roster full of different characters and a booking committee with a clue, rather than a lazy Fatal Five Way where each participant gets to do their move set while most of the others are laying around "hurt". It's nonsense, but it's what happens today.

But hey, that's why I got the WWE Network recently. I can choose which era to watch. I can listen to good announcers, rather than Cole yelling "Superman Punch!" like an idiot each and every week. The advances may be necessary for a publicly-traded company, but seem unnecessary for a wrestling company. Them making up their minds is another post though...

The biggest change has been HD and 4K is gonna make it even harder... they had to change their presentation and filming style because HD showed up the missed blows and talking to each other in the ring much more vividly... for boxing, Soccer etc, HD and 4K are amazing... for wrestling they're necessary to keep up but a literal pain to work with, more talent has to work stiff now to keep the illusion....and some aren't great at it, hence more injuries.

As for the rest of the tech, a lot is to do with how those arenas look on your HD screen. If Joe Bloggs has his $1000 50" then a grungy wrestling set ain't gonna interest him or make his buddies say "wow" but a lit set with lots of motion lights etc will look impressive.

Has it gone too far? The colour changing ring posts (and seemingly ropes now) is a little too much perhaps but the light aprons aren't much more than a logical step. Personally I'd prefer to keep traditional ring elements as a link to the past... but again, it's part of an overall "wow" factor that WWE needs to hook people. In '87 or '92 at Wembley, just having 80k plus in an arena was enough... now you need those numbers AND an insane spectacle. It peaked with Rusev at Mania.. riding a fucking TANK to the ring! Love him or hate him, coupled with the music it was more effective than any Taker or Hunter intro ever... and he lost!

Presentation wise, in someways it is worse than ever... Commentary has gone backwards, interviews and skits seem more "by rote" than they did and this is all stuff us smarks know about... I personally miss the days of the little box in the corner while the match was ongoing, where their next big opponent cut a promo on them. It was of it's time but did as good a job as a 20 minute in ring pow-wow.

The biggest over produced aspect WWE faces though is the one people miss most often... WWE is NOT A WRESTLING SHOW... It is a Soap Opera SET in a wrestling company... inherently it will seem over produced, just as Days of Our Lives does and compared to more pure sporting products like UFC... there matches are the reason for everything... in WWE the matches drive/contrive the story and most telling is how it's openly acknowledged that talent have different personas backstage through shows like Total Divas, Table for 3 etc... It's not wrestling, it's a soap about actors in a wrestling show... they have their in ring stuff and then backstage stuff... irony is, even now typing this...we're part of feeding that.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

I don't know when it happened, but the camera work took an annoying nose dive between 20 years ago and now. The worst is the continuous camera bobbing that goes on when somebody is getting stomped or punched in the corner, its stupid as hell. Plus the amazing amount of camera changes during a womans match to try and make it seem exciting.

I think they've actually cut back on a few things, like pyro. Not many wrestlers have pyro nowadays compared to the past because of the digital ramp, post, ring apron and multiple trons, light trickery they can work with.

I'm old school but I seriously love what they are doing with the ramp and ring apron. Kevin Owens walking out and having a 30 foot Kevin Owens Face right there on the top of the ramp is an example of really cool things WWE are doing right now.

 

[Hoke Hogan]

Plus the amazing amount of camera changes during a womans match to try and make it seem exciting.

That and the wardrobe malfunctions, I'd guess.

I think that the product is definitely over-produced, but I don't just mean from the sets and camerawork (don't mind the sets/staging at all and would actually be in favor of bigger and better on that front). I'm talking about the writing. Their insistence on scripting every last detail has really made it hard for me to enjoy the product as its very hard for the performers to develop any natural charisma.

 

[FromGlasgow]

I completely agree I think thats a large part of the problem of wrestling today, Its too perfect now with their perfect little robots doing perfect move after move all reading from the same scripts, Its like every little detail is managed and scripted under a microscope until theres no shred of spontaniety left, Even the commentry is just one long constant dull advert, I wonder how different wrestling back in the day would be if guys like Roddy Piper, Dusty Rhodes and even Bobby Heenan only read from scripts, I couldn't imagine it would have been much fun, I don't mean to crap over todays wrestling I think the talent is still there I just think you need to give todays guys the same chance as others had back in the day, When they read from the same scripts they just all sound the same to me.

 

[Navi]

When RAW and SD are on they aren't playing to the audience in the arena that night, they are playing to the millions who tune into watch the show. I think the set's look cool and very up to date. Since the WWE is the biggest show around they have to keep it looking that way, and I don't think the tron takes away from any of the action in the ring.

As a matter of fact, most in the audience probably watch the tron, especially those who can't see or are close enough to watch the action in the ring. The WWE are just moving with the times and the technology available and I have no problem with that at all. If it had been available 20 years ago, they would have used it then as well.

Going to the promo's I do agree they are very scripted and overproduced though. Some of the wrestler's just don't look comfortable saying what they are supposed too, it doesn't come off as being natural. Also the continuous camera shots of the crowd can get annoying as well. The one thing the WWE does do well are the videos recaps and vignettes, they are second to none.

 

[HeenanGorilla]

In Vegas or Atlantic City, there are thousands and thousands of slot machines. Penny slots all the way up to high roller slots. They have different themes: Movies, TV shows, etc. Some are digital, some have the wheels with pictures. But, they are all pretty much the same; enter money, wait a few seconds, see if you won. The cherries being replaced by lemons or Wheel of Fortune rather than Jeopardy doesn't change the basic idea. There are different visuals and sounds, but it's the same. This is how I see the WWE now. The superstars are, for the most part, the same base model with some different tweaks. Same with the set. A lot of bells and whistles designed to take your attention off of the guts of what is being presented.

Maybe leave the ring ropes the same color and put some time into fixing other things...?

"Ladies and gentlemen, my guest at this time ____"

(lukewarm reaction good or bad from crowd)

<Generic question referencing PPV or match later that night--interviewer has now said their last words>

<Generic response from superstar before they walk away>

Interviewer stares off into distance off camera.

I guess for every bit overproduced, there is one horribly, horribly under-produced.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I don't know when it happened, but the camera work took an annoying nose dive between 20 years ago and now. The worst is the continuous camera bobbing that goes on when somebody is getting stomped or punched in the corner, its stupid as hell. Plus the amazing amount of camera changes during a womans match to try and make it seem exciting.

I think they've actually cut back on a few things, like pyro. Not many wrestlers have pyro nowadays compared to the past because of the digital ramp, post, ring apron and multiple trons, light trickery they can work with.

I'm old school but I seriously love what they are doing with the ramp and ring apron. Kevin Owens walking out and having a 30 foot Kevin Owens Face right there on the top of the ramp is an example of really cool things WWE are doing right now.

It was about 4 years ago when they moved to HD the camera work had to change. Their old style would have shown the "fakeness".

The sets themselves and the ramp is pretty cool... Pyro is over used and at the end of the day, expensive to insure for in a terrorism filled world. The fewer explosives lying around the place, the less WWE has to pay.

One aspect few have touched on is themes... They are worse than they ever have been... many sound quite generic or low quality compared to the past. For everyone like Shinzuke or Roode who has a memorable one there is a Sheamus/Cesaro or Bayley that sounds like an inferior version of something else. I get they're back to in-house as licensing is expensive but some should still have a licensed theme to mix it up.

 

[Phenomenal]

WOW, seeing that old picture of Austin coming down the ramp reminds me how bad wrestling is gone. That place looks more rowdy than a modern WM event, its like the crowd is trying to jump the rail and eat Austin.

The second picture is just garbage, over produced as OP says and dead crowd with no signs of life.

 

[Just Do It]

Clearly, yes. And it has been for a long time. Same format, written promos, stagnant commentary, uniformed wrestlers. I have watched out of habit for a long time. I still love wrestling, but objectively it isn't the same as before, and a lack of spontaneity is one of the big reasons for this.

 

[Sagg1298]

First thing I noticed when I saw the pictures in the OP, "Damn, there aren't enough signs in the crowd anymore!" I guess that's the first point, crowd interest being so minimal in the product that the shows come across as flat as compared to previously.

The OP is not the only one who feels that way. Stone Cold Steve Austin himself said it recently in one of his latest podcasts that he was watching an episode of Monday Night Raw from the Attitude Era recently and he said the presentation just felt so spontaneous with a vibe of 'anything can happen'. I am going to paraphrase a lot of this but he basically said he don't want to shit on the current product but watching that made him go back in time and compare the current and the old era and he said the current episodes of Raw just feel segmented and don't connect as much. About the older shows that he watches he said, right off the bat as the show is coming on the air, the people are rowdy, the commentary was realistic with J.R on fire selling the matches and the wrestlers were improvising, both in the backstage segments and in the ring, intensity levels high in the ring and even the backstage segments felt like sudden scoops you catch on camera, not scripted bytes when a camera just happens to be at the right place at the right time.

I agree with Austin on a lot of things there. I too have been watching a lot of New Generation era and Attitude Era on Raw recently and noticed the same things. I do however would point out that the set up for Raw and Smackdown right now is absolutely magnificent and hardly anyone can compare with WWE in the production department. On the other hand, I am not a strictly stick to the wrestlers and the wrestling and forget the bells and whistles guy either. I watch the show to be entertained and sucked into the drama happening in the TV screen. The set up, the camera work, the crowd involvement play a big part in that. If the stagnant directorial skills of Kevin Dunn can not do that for me as a viewer, then too bad.