Has CM Punk ever had a memorable match?

[Long Island Iced WXYZ]

When I think of Punk, I think of his feud with Jeff Hardy.

So for me, his memorable match was when he beat Jeff Hardy when he was leaving and won the WHC.

Other than that, nothing. He didn't do anything since losing the WHC to the Undertaker.

 

[dizzle1119]

Indeed, and quite extensive. Were you referring to the past as in 1437? No?

I was referring to the past in general. To be more specific, the 80's and early 90's. I already referred to that period in another of my posts.

Then perhaps you could be a bit more specific? I know it's difficult and all, trying to cover up when someone calls you on bullshit, but at least take a shot.

I have nothing to cover up. The statement I made is true. Are you saying that smaller wrestlers have always been as successful as larger wrestlers? Do you think for a second that Rey Mysterio (who generally weighs less than 200 lbs) would've been given the opportunity to hold the WWF World Heavyweight Championship if he was in his prime in 1987?

And I'm asking when that "used to be" was. Which you still hadn't answered.

I've eluded to it a couple of different times now. ...but let's act as if I never did. I challenge you to name one decade in professional wrestling history, prior to the year 2000, when smaller guys like Jericho, Punk, Jeff Hardy, Mysterio and AJ Styles became world champions on a regular basis. None of the men I just mentioned weigh over 230 lbs.

Piper

Roddy Piper was never world champion

Steamboat

I mentioned him being an exception to the rule.

DiBiase

The Million Dollar Man was never booked to win a world championship (that I know of). I'm pretty sure his championship was purchased from Andre The Giant. Besides, Dibiase was a 260 lb man. That's hardly small.

Martel

Rick Martel was never world champion, and I don't even remember him being a main eventer either.

Perfect

Kurt Hennig was never WWF champion, but did hold the AWA championship. Hennig was a 260 lb man. Again, that's not small.

Slaughter and his gut back in '91

was never a "smaller" man (billed weight = 300+ lbs)

the Horsemen

MANY on again/off again Horsemen were never world champion (I mentioned Flair being an exception to the rule
)

Funk

I didn't think of funk (billed weight = 247 lbs)

Rhodes

not a "smaller" man by any stretch of the imagination. He was billed as weighing 300+ lbs.

Race

I'll give you credit for this one (billed weight = 245 lbs.

Bockwinkel

I didn't consider Bockwinkel either. Once again, I'll give credit where it's due. (billed weight = 241 lbs)

Now you see why my bullshit detector went off?

No, not really.

Now's the time in the "argument" where you act as if I'm saying Dibease, Dusty Rhodes and Sgt. Slaughter were roid freaks, right? Well, in my defense, I never imagined anyone would list The Million Dollar Man and a couple fat bodies as examples of smaller men being main eventers. Then again, I didn't think anyone would list Rick Martel as a main eventer either.

I still don't understand why you tried to lay into me for seemingly no reason. The point I made remains valid. Smaller men get ahead in the business WAY more often these days. It's a fact.

 

[dizzle1119]

Not in the WWF, but not because of his size. Because of Hulk Hogan.

You've gotta be kidding, right? Hogan holding people back is all but common knowledge, but there's no way in hell Vince would've put his title on a 175 pound man in the 80's heyday....Hogan or no Hogan.

Sure, in '96, if he had the credibility he has now. I mean, they let HBK have the title for half a year despite drawing so poorly.

I highly doubt Mysterio would've been considered for the WWF Championship in 1996. Mysterio was active in WCW at this time. Why was he never WCW Champion? Surely it has something to do with his size. ...and let's try to refrain from using words like credibility when discussing a fake sport. If credibility had any place in pro wrestling, Rey Mysterio would rarely win a match.

I remember reading that Bischoff didn't see Jericho as championship material due to his size, and he's huge compared to Mysterio.

 

[Slyfox696]

I've eluded to it a couple of different times now. ...but let's act as if I never did. I challenge you to name one decade in professional wrestling history, prior to the year 2000, when smaller guys like Jericho, Punk, Jeff Hardy, Mysterio and AJ Styles became world champions on a regular basis. None of the men I just mentioned weigh over 230 lbs.

Hart, Backlund, Diesel, Hart, HBK, Sid, HBK, Hart


Seems pretty regular to me. And that's just from the 5-7 years before 2000.

Also, it seems as if you have kind of a short memory. Allow me to refresh it:

Size is totally irrelevant in wrestling today for the most part. Gone are the days when being a roid freak went hand in hand with being at the top of the card.

Keep that in mind as we go through the rest of this.

Roddy Piper was never world champion

But he was a main-eventer, at the top of the card, which is what you said.

I mentioned him being an exception to the rule.

I know, but it just helps the list.

The Million Dollar Man was never booked to win a world championship (that I know of). I'm pretty sure his championship was purchased from Andre The Giant. Besides, Dibiase was a 260 lb man. That's hardly small.

He was still main-eventer. And he wasn't 260 pounds. He may have been billed as such, but there was no way.

Besides, you said you were looking for builds, not specific weights.

Rick Martel was never world champion, and I don't even remember him being a main eventer either.

Probably ought to refresh your AWA knowledge then.

Kurt Hennig was never WWF champion, but did hold the AWA championship. Hennig was a 260 lb man. Again, that's not small.

And just like with DiBiase, there was no way he was 260 pounds, and he was a main-event player for a while.

was never a "smaller" man (billed weight = 300+ lbs)

Was never a 'roid freak either.

MANY on again/off again Horsemen were never world champion (I mentioned Flair being an exception to the rule)

But they were at the top of the card. You seem to be changing your criteria as we go along.

I didn't think of funk (billed weight = 247 lbs)

Score another for me.

not a "smaller" man by any stretch of the imagination. He was billed as weighing 300+ lbs.

But not a 'roid freak, which is what you said.

Quit changing the scope of the discussion.

I'll give you credit for this one (billed weight = 245 lbs.

Score another for me.

I didn't consider Bockwinkel either. Once again, I'll give credit where it's due. (billed weight = 241 lbs)

And another.

No, not really.

Considering you don't even remember what you said in the first place, I'm not really surprised.

Now's the time in the "argument" where you act as if I'm saying Dibease, Dusty Rhodes and Sgt. Slaughter were roid freaks, right? Well, in my defense, I never imagined anyone would list The Million Dollar Man and a couple fat bodies as examples of smaller men being main eventers. Then again, I didn't think anyone would list Rick Martel as a main eventer either.

I still don't understand why you tried to lay into me for seemingly no reason. The point I made remains valid. Smaller men get ahead in the business WAY more often these days. It's a fact.

Except it's not a fact. Not that smaller men don't get ahead, but that they didn't get ahead 20 years ago.


There's several things you seem to be taking for granted. First of all, billed weight 20-30 years ago is much different than today. I would say most of today's wrestlers are billed appropriately. But decades ago, it's a known fact they would overbill their wrestlers height and weight, to make them even more larger than life. Are you really telling me that Ted DiBiase, at the same height as John Cena (6'1") weighed 20 pounds more (260 to 240)? That's just foolish. Cena is EASILY bigger than DiBiase and likely weighs more. So your arbitrary cut-off weight of 230, while ignoring what you first said, is probably hit more often two decades ago than you think.

Second of all, the WWE has two different and distinct branches of it's promoting (three when Punk first came up). When Hulk Hogan ruled the world, there was just one world title, and no one was touching it. If today's rosters were merged, and there was only one World title, do you think Punk would have ever come near it? Rey? Of course not. Undertaker, Cena, Triple H, Batista, Orton, HBK, Jericho, and Edge would be passing it around. Jeff Hardy if he was at all reliable would be the closest thing a "smaller build" guy would have at a chance. But not Rey and not Punk.

Finally, wrestling promoting is a MUCH different beast today than it was 20-30 years ago. In the 80s, Hulk Hogan could go 4 years as World Champion (and did), because he didn't appear on TV every week. There wasn't a PPV for him to defend his title at every month.

The smaller guys were showcased just as much 20-30 years ago as they are today. Do they have more world titles to show for it? Sure, but that's a product of the system they're in, not a change in booking philosophy.




The overall point of this is you cannot say Punk has a better chance now of being a superstar than he would have 20-30 years ago, because while promoting has changed, what draws fans really hasn't. Punk is not likely to be a mega draw, ever in his career. That's not a bad thing, it's just a thing.

You've gotta be kidding, right? Hogan holding people back is all but common knowledge, but there's no way in hell Vince would've put his title on a 175 pound man in the 80's heyday....Hogan or no Hogan.

Hogan didn't hold people back in the 80s, there was just no one better suited to wear the title.

Hogan was the biggest draw in pro wrestling history. Do you really think ANYONE could have taken the title off him? Hell, even Andre, the biggest man of them all, couldn't take the title off of Hogan.

It has nothing to do with size, but with the fact Hogan was revolutionizing the business and making McMahon lots of money.

I highly doubt Mysterio would've been considered for the WWF Championship in 1996.

If he had the reputation and career behind him then that he does now, absolutely he would have.

Mysterio was active in WCW at this time. Why was he never WCW Champion? Surely it has something to do with his size

That's completely asinine. There are many reasons.

1. He was young and didn't have a suitable body of work
2. The WCW had a million big guys, whereas the WWF didn't, so not really seeing your point.
3. The nWo
4. Sting
5. Goldberg


Do you see where I'm going with this? But if you put today's Rey Mysterio, with his Hispanic following, and long career and accomplishments down in the WWF from 1994-1996, absolutely he would have been considered for a World title.

...and let's try to refrain from using words like credibility when discussing a fake sport. If credibility had any place in pro wrestling, Rey Mysterio would rarely win a match.

The credibility he has with the fans. Try to keep up.

I remember reading that Bischoff didn't see Jericho as championship material due to his size, and he's huge compared to Mysterio.

That's an interesting piece of knowledge. Unfortunately for you, that has absolutely nothing to do with the WWF in 1996.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

I wonder if Sly ever gets tired of slapping people with his penis when they try to debate with him.


I think it is interesting a lot of people have pretty much listed the same Punk matches. For me, the only one that stands out was the Rumble of this year because the Rumble this year was probably the best ever.. And it wasn't because of him. He just happened to be involved in the match.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

In WWE? None, really. I like Punk, but he hasn't had the impact in WWE that many would have you believe. I think he's probably the best (or second best) guy in the company, but he hasn't reached a level where his matches (in WWE) will be remembered as legendary.

the Rumble this year was probably the best ever..

You have a lot of wrestling to watch, my child.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

I read the title of the thread, have a look and...Sly's detroying someone. It would seem the world is in order.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I read the title of the thread, have a look and...Sly's detroying someone. It would seem the world is in order.

Well, there was a but I won't blindly assume he's winning the argument until we see a or at least a

 

[The Gribbler]

he's too small to be able to do a lot of moves to bigger people (for example he would never be able to do a gts to someone like mason ryan).

I would like to point out that he GTS'd Kane and A couple of other heavyweights, I mean sure he couldnt hit bigshow or Khali, but he can hit almost everyone with it. And he has the talent to work around some of the bigger guys which is a good talent to have.

Just My Opinion

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I think in years to come people will look back at his match with Randy Orton from Mania was a memorable match. It was my favorite match at WrestleMania 27, the ending has been done before but still, you have to say it was a great match.

Asides from that, his match with Chris Jericho does remain in the mind. As does a couple of his matches with Rey Mysterio. Armaggeddon 2008 when he broke Rey's nose with the GTS brings a smile to my face. Infact...


HA!

 

[X]

This thread is so dumb I want to murder it in the face.

I could literally supply you with a list of dozens upon dozens upon dozens (perhaps even hundreds) of amazing matches CM Punk has been involved in over the years in a variety of wrestling promotions. You're clearly not at all familiar with Punk's work OP.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

My two thought upon entering this thread are; firstly to the title... WOW. My second thought was x with veins popping out of his eyes in rage.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

This thread is so dumb I want to murder it in the face.

I could literally supply you with a list of dozens upon dozens upon dozens (perhaps even hundreds) of amazing matches CM Punk has been involved in over the years in a variety of wrestling promotions. You're clearly not at all familiar with Punk's work OP.

You have to take into consideration the number of fans who have actually seen most of those matches. I don't mind the indy stuff I've seen, however, most have no idea he even wrestled prior to arriving in WWE. Maybe his indy stuff is memorable to hardcore fans like yourself, but to the majority, not so much. Again, that's not saying what he did wasn't good, but those matches are only memorable to a small, small minority of wrestling fans.

 

[X]

You have to take into consideration the number of fans who have actually seen most of those matches. I don't mind the indy stuff I've seen, however, most have no idea he even wrestled prior to arriving in WWE. Maybe his indy stuff is memorable to hardcore fans like yourself, but to the majority, not so much. Again, that's not saying what he did wasn't good, but those matches are only memorable to a small, small minority of wrestling fans.

Who gives a fuck if some 12 year old casual fans haven't seen his ROH work? The matches still happened, and they were still incredible. Doesn't matter if 20 million or 20,000 people have seen it, it's still a classic. He helped put that entire company on the map with Joe though.

Plus, Punk has been excellent in the WWE. He's had several ****+ matches, which would fall under "classic" in my book.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

At any rate, Punk's match with Hardy at SummerSlam was memorable. Do people forget about that feud when they talk about that Punk not being a draw thing?

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Who gives a fuck if some 12 year old casual fans haven't seen his ROH work? The matches still happened, and they were still incredible. Doesn't matter if 20 million or 20,000 people have seen it, it's still a classic. He helped put that entire company on the map with Joe though.

Plus, Punk has been excellent in the WWE. He's had several ****+ matches, which would fall under "classic" in my book.

When I think of the word "memorable," I think of something I'll remember in 15-20 years. Given I, and most fans, haven't seen much ROH, Mid-South, etc., I can't say I'll remember much of what he did prior to his WWE debut. I'm not knocking the quality of the matches, I'm simply pointing out how few fans have actually seen that stuff.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

If we got into his ROH work we could make a DVD out of it. You've both his meetings with Joe, his feud with Raven, his bouts with Aries, even a few of his tag matches alongside Cabana. Some seem to forget that Meltzer gave Joe vs. Punk II a five star rating. Punk has two now.

But I believe the OP did want only WWE matches, so hence why I thought they were irrelevant to the thread.

 

[TLC]

I only read the first few posts but why did they not mention his match with John Cena? That was very fucking memorable. Even though I thought it sucked, his match with Taker' at Breaking Point was also memorable for the finish.

 

[Slyfox696]

Who gives a fuck if some 12 year old casual fans haven't seen his ROH work? The matches still happened, and they were still incredible. Doesn't matter if 20 million or 20,000 people have seen it, it's still a classic. He helped put that entire company on the map with Joe though.

Plus, Punk has been excellent in the WWE. He's had several ****+ matches, which would fall under "classic" in my book.

I suppose it depends upon what one considers to be a classic, but I wouldn't say Punk has had several classic matches in the WWE. A classic match is one that's unforgettable, a Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage, a Warrior vs. Hogan, Flair vs. Funk, Bret vs. Perfect, Rock vs. Austin, Cena vs. HBK, even HBK vs. Undertaker at WM (though I still argue it's overrated). Those are matches which will live on with fans for the rest of their wrestling memories.

Punk doesn't have those matches. Perhaps he's had matches you've found enjoyable (and given the fact you're pretty clearly an unabashed CM Punk "can almost do no wrong" fan, you probably feel that way about more matches than most fans), but I don't know how many of them one could call classics.

And, sorry X, Nick is right. Under the theory the number of people who have watched it means nothing, I could easily say that I've wrestled 37 classics in my backyard against my dog (I don't even have a dog). The fact no one can verify them as classics, the fact they won't live on in fans memories, severely weaken the claim of a match to be a classic.

I feel there's a difference between a match that is memorable to one fan, and matches that are true classics.

 

[MrHashasheen]

And, sorry X, Nick is right. Under the theory the number of people who have watched it means nothing, I could easily say that I've wrestled 37 classics in my backyard against my dog (I don't even have a dog). The fact no one can verify them as classics, the fact they won't live on in fans memories, severely weaken the claim of a match to be a classic.

I feel there's a difference between a match that is memorable to one fan, and matches that are true classics.

True, but what defines an acceptable number of fans knowing about it? ROH fans probably define Punk-Joe matches as classics, and there's plenty of them around.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Punk/Cena. Good. We done here?

 

[Coco]

I remember every CM Punk match. So he's never had one that isn't memorable.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I remember every CM Punk match. So he's never had one that isn't memorable.

You remember that shit match between Punk and Cena that was so shit nobody talks about and it like totally made wrestling even more irrelevant and was in Chicago with a dead crowd, no real story and a pretty shitty ending where CM Punk seemed to come onto Vince McMahon.

That match was shit.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I only read the first few posts but why did they not mention his match with John Cena? That was very fucking memorable. Even though I thought it sucked, his match with Taker' at Breaking Point was also memorable for the finish.

This thread was made before his match against Cena. But yes, that takes Punk to two memorable matches in the WWE, against Hardy and against Cena.

 

[TheCrusher]

Sly, you don't have a dog? Want mine? He's old, lazy and the only smell worse than his breath is his "silent but deadlys." Anyway, offer stands.

I think that Punk/Cena in Chicago will stand the test of time, but I think this thread started before that. (Too lazy to go back and look it up right now.) Other than that, I think his WWE career has provided some good/very good matches but that his most memorable ones are yet to come. Memorable matches occur on the big stages and have either A) a great build-up between two stars and serve as an extremely satisfying end to a memorable or B) some type of crazy spot that brings back echoes of the pretty much defunct "Holy shit!" chants. Current WWE isn't in a rush to throw anyone off the Tron right now, so Punk's best chances are going to come from Category A.

Now that he is at the top of the card, Punk is going to get his chance to do a big build-up to a satisfying ending. We'll see what happens at SS.