Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
I don't see the problem there
Glass Ass: The OFFICIAL JGlass Thread
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I don't see the problem there
Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
I'm gonna change the topic to something most of us agree one, Dagger and his opinions on wrestling. Earlier he posted Santino is never legit threat to titles because he is a comedy jobber for life. Clearly that must be true since it's a user title
You're adorable.
After writing that response I reached the conclusion that you used deluded rationalization to explain why you hate a character when the answer is quite simply: he's not cool. Cena's flaws are actually fairly obvious to anyone that has read a book, watched television, or learned anything about history ever. The simple truth is most people don't like Cena because his flaws don't make him cool. He's not damaged goods like Batman and he doesn't have a dark side like Wolverine. He's like Captain America or Superman, and those are two of the most straight laced heroes you can find. There's nothing really cool about them, but they're more heroic than Batman or Wolverine could ever be, and that's what makes them great.
Grow a pair, bitch.
I sold BF3 today. I'll miss shooting Russians with you guys
. But you and I should play ME3 multiplayer sometime... WITHOUT Pancock. Actually he can play too.I think the fact that he has 3 midcard title reigns to his name suggest otherwise...
Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
I sold BF3 today. I'll miss shooting Russians with you guys
I miss your ingenJEWity on the battle field. We need to save the galaxy together for sure though. Pancake can be our.....uhhhh.....who is a famous 3rd banana?
I just have an entirely different conception of what it means to be a hero. It's not about being a fantastical character who succeeds morally where we humans fail - it's about someone just as shitty and fucked up as the rest of us, but who still does great things anyway. Hence, why I mentioned Syndey Carton and Nolan's Batman. And Aang, really, though he's a lot lighter than those two. But he shares the same general trait. Normal dude, really does a lot of shit wrong, but he saves the world at the end of the day and it's great.
In short, great heroes aren't people who achieve singular victories over great evil with a shining sword of justice. Rather, they're real people who do extraordinary things and remind us of the nobility of the human soul.
And all I've gotten as justification for flaws that Cena has so far are either things without consequence (Crock) or just plain twisted facts (you). I mean, you're trying to sell me that refusing Punk's offer was a flaw? That shit was straight out of Faust.
Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
I get that people dislike Santino. Personally I love the guy, and I find it annoying that more than a few people who dislike him because he is gimmicky call for more characters in pro wrestling today. I just can't stand when people, Dagger included, say that Santino ruined the US title.
Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
I don't like Superman
Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
Cena Cena Cena
Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
I see how it is, just because he isn't your crazy Mormon white Native American magic underwear savior he is a moron.
Cena
No, he's a moron because he lacks a chromosome. The puddle of drool next to his mouse pad says as much.
Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
Cena heel turn Cenna heel turn Cena heel turn
I don't think I was all that helpful on the battle field, but I did kill a lot of people. I wasn't bad in a tank either. Pancock was considerably better than I, though.
And 3rd banana?
So you define a hero by his past instead of by his actions? Do I even need to tell you how stupid that is?
Batman isn't a hero because he is consumed by seeking justice. He's a hero because he refuses to kill the bad guys, even when that would make things easier for him. It's his moral code that makes him a hero. It's not being the son of Odin that makes Thor a hero, it's because he protects humanity and has a strict moral code.
Heroism isn't about your back story. You don't need to have a dark history to be a hero, and John Cena epitomizes that. Anyone can be a hero, all you have to do is be true to yourself and never forget what's important to you.
That's why people love Cena. He's not a slab of marble. He's a mirror.
I don't see the connection at all. Faust made a deal with the Devil and used Mephistopholese (sp?) to get whatever he wanted. All Cena would have to do is admit defeat. Faust would have acted selfishly, Cena, while acting primarily in his own self interest, wouldn't be hurting anyone in the process. It's not exactly Faustian.
The fact of the matter is that fans want to see their hero succeed, and Cena has been known to pass up the opportunity for success to keep his code. Hustle, Loyalty, Respect. You know the deal.
Superman is a brilliant character. He's the only hero whose alter-ego is the regular guy. While Spider-Man and Batman hide under a mask, Superman has to hide in plain sight.
Also leads to the fun of who's the mask/false ID, Clark Kent or Superman.
How is it unreasonable to understand people in terms of their experiences? How else is one to do it?
Batman is a hero because he does what he does in spite of his past. How thin of a line does Batman walk between hero and villain? It's exhilarating. We understand his strict moral code for what it is - the most stringest possible disciplinary measure to keep himself from falling to the dark side. Your average person with that moral code isn't that impressive, but for Batman, it's like wielding a weapon against the shadow. And his constant flirtations with breaking it are practically what defines him. And then of course you have the many ways in which it becomes a flaw, and costs him. These are the things that make him both heroic and interesting. His heroism stems from overcoming his faults to pursue justice. Difficult to do when one has no faults to begin with.
Faust didn't hurt anyone but himself either. It's right there in the play - "homo fugue". Nobody said to Faust, "Hey, you're really going to ruin a lot of shit if you do this", they said "Hey, take this deal, and you're fucked, buddy." Cena, in fact, has more to lose, in the respect of all his fans. This is classic deal with the devil stuff. I honestly don't really understand how you're not seeing it.
Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
Yes Pancake would be our third banana. Clearly he is inferior to us.
I've just never liked Superman. I have a friend who is obsessed with Superman because he had a shit relationship with his dad and he relates to Superman and Jor-El. It just bugs me.
I'm not sure where that conversation on Cena is good. You two(Harthan and JGlass) are polar opposites of each other in your opinions. Harthan represents the stereotypical pissed off smark member who is sick of Cena and what he represents after eight or so years. JGlass represents the classic mark who cares more about the classic good/evil storylines and the hero triumphing over the villain in the end. You guys both have a point, and its unlikely that anyone else will be as elegant with their points. Just typical non spam BS.
Also I get the Loyalty and Respect, but isn't Hustle a negative thing?
I've just never liked Superman. I have a friend who is obsessed with Superman because he had a shit relationship with his dad and he relates to Superman and Jor-El. It just bugs me.
I'm not sure where that conversation on Cena is good. You two(Harthan and JGlass) are polar opposites of each other in your opinions. Harthan represents the stereotypical pissed off smark member who is sick of Cena and what he represents after eight or so years. JGlass represents the classic mark who cares more about the classic good/evil storylines and the hero triumphing over the villain in the end. You guys both have a point, and its unlikely that anyone else will be as elegant with their points. Just typical non spam BS.
Also I get the Loyalty and Respect, but isn't Hustle a negative thing?
I object to Cena as art. I don't think I fit nearly into the typical anti-Cena camp. I don't hate his limited moveset, for example, or his catchphrases, or his shirts, or his constant main event status, or anything like that. I just think that the character he portrays is just horribly conceived, ultimately.
Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
But the catchphrases and his constant main event status are part of the character he plays.
They're irrelevant. Minor details. It's the big picture stuff I'm concerned about.
Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
As much as I tend to agree with you on Cena I think you are looking into it too much.
I refuse to ever ever be told I'm looking into anything too much. There's this idea that all art is scrunched up into dignified little categories. The truth is artists just make things, it's an audience who creates art. We make art by looking to see what we can see, and not stopping.
I always got so frustrated when we would discuss poetry in high school. Everyone, fucking everyone, would say, "I think you're reading into it too much." Infuriating.
Clark Kent is the mask, without a doubt. It's actually an allegory for Jews in America, as they were still distrusted by most of the community, but hid in plain sight.
Understanding them is one thing. Judging their worth is another.
Not thin at all. Batman hunts bad guys to protect the innocent.
Fair, but Cena does have clear faults.
Gretchen got hurt. She shouldn't have been with him. Ultimately she goes to heaven, but she would have lived a better life had she never been tricked into falling for Faust.
Because you're trying to make a connection that isn't there. Faust did use his powers for selfish gains. Cena would be winning the title for his fans.
And how is losing the respect of your fans worse than eternal damnation?
Well there's your problem right there, you're looking at wrestling as art. As I said in the non-spam thread, if WWE had the time to make Cena fall hard, they would. But they can't let him fall for more than a couple weeks at a time because they need him to be back to hero status and making money. Throughout the years WWE's heroes have never fallen. Hogan would be champion for years at a time. Stone Cold would do things that seemed to be sure to sabotage his career, but he somehow always wound up on top in the end. Cena gets knocked down plenty, but just like Hogan and Austin, he needs to get right back up and into the main event because the WWE needs him to make money.
If you look at the story as a whole, it works. Cena refuses to compromise on his morals and gets fired for it. Eventually he returns and gets his revenge on Nexus. Cena prepares all year for the biggest fight of his career and he loses. He mopes around and then gets his ass kicked by another former star, but he finds motivation in his fellow wrestlers and the fans to comeback and beat the monster. The time constraints of business hurt the telling of the story, but the story itself works.
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