France Is Now The Epicenter of Horror

[Cena's Little Helper]

People have been saying this for quite some time, but I have just now found myself in agreement. Let's take a look at the most significant horror films to come out of this country for the past decade:

1) Irréversible (2002) - While technically not a horror film (and while not directed by a Frenchman, although it is technically a French film), Irréversible nonetheless anticipated the visceral and gritty style of contemporary French horror. Also, it is just as, if not more, nauseously graphic as anything that has come out since. Incidentally, I consider it to be one of the greatest films ever made, although it is not for everyone.

2) Haute Tension (2003) - The film that many consider the beginning of the French horror craze. I wasn't very impressed with this film. I loved the fact that Alexandre Aja employed Phillipe Nahon as The Killer and Sergio Stivaletti for the film's special effects, but I wasn't all that amazed with the end product. However, I definitely think that Aja is a talented director and that The Hills Have Eyes 2006 is the one of the two greatest horror remakes ever made (the other being John Carpenter's The Thing).

3) Sheitan (2006) - While definitely not as violent as the other films listed on here, I loved this film, which is about a satanic shepherd (played by the incomparable Vincent Cassel) who terrorizes a group of young, wayward clubbers. This film is funny as hell to boot (I definitely don't like my horror and comedy mixed, but this film was an exception).

4) Frontière(s) (2007) - This film should have been titled, "France's Take on Psychopathic, Inbred, Yeoman Farmers." Although definitely better than Wrong Turn, and better than Haute Tension, this is another film that I wasn't all that impressed with. My reaction is probably due to the fact that this film was hyped to hell before it hit the States. But, like Aja, Xavier Gens is definitely a director to watch out for.

5) Inside / À l'intérieur (2007) - The film that made me think that there might something to all this talk about a French horror movement. Short and to the point, not to mention extremely suspenseful and gory, Inside has everything that a horror enthusiast could want.

6) Martyrs (2008) - Yep...after this film, I'm now drinking the French horror kool-aid. Just as graphic as any of the films I have already mentioned, and just as soul shattering as Irréversible, Martyrs, in my opinion, represents the pinnacle of ultraviolent horror. Here's to hoping that this film can at least be matched in terms of its shock factor and profundity (I don't think anything will ever be able to top it).

So, what say you? Is France where it's at right now in terms of horror? Can any other country match its horror output?

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Horror sells, horror is cheap to produce and the French film industry can't really afford to put out unsuccessful films. It's why a lot of the Spanish, Brazillian and Korean films you see are really good.

I'm undecided if Switchblade Romance or Haute Tension is the better title.

I have also never *********ed over the rape scene in Irreversible, before xfear comes in and tars me with the same brush as himself.

 

[X]

1) Irréversible (2002) - While technically not a horror film (and while not directed by a Frenchman, although it is technically a French film), Irréversible nonetheless anticipated the visceral and gritty style of contemporary French horror. Also, it is just as, if not more, nauseously graphic as anything that has come out since. Incidentally, I consider it to be one of the greatest films ever made, although it is not for everyone.

Amazing film. I'd certainly classify it as horror, what else could it possibly be called? People seem to think it's not a horror film unless people are being chopped up or chased by a monster. A good example of a horror film with neither of those things is William Friedkin's "Bug" which came out a few years ago. No one is killed, no monster is after them, but it's still more frightening then every modern Japanese horror remake combined.

In honesty it's really not even that graphic tdigle. You barely see anything in the infamous head-bashing scene, and you don't really see much if any nudity in the rape scene. But that's part of what makes this film so great, is that it uses subtle film techniques to turn something that might just look over-the-top gorey in another film, and turn it into an unabashedly disturbing image with much less.

I'm a huge horror fan and gorehound, so it takes a whole lot to disturb me in any way. Irreversible did this with flying colors. That head-bashing scene does it for me every time. I feel queasy and disgusting every time I see it,

That's the thing that really makes this film great--- where most horror films seem to celebrate violence and try to entertain you with blood splatter, Irreversible shows you sickening violence for what it truly is: disturbing and not the least bit enjoyable. Sorry to rant on Irreversible, but it's just such a remarkable film.

2) Haute Tension (2003) - The film that many consider the beginning of the French horror craze. I wasn't very impressed with this film. I loved the fact that Alexandre Aja employed Phillipe Nahon as The Killer and Sergio Stivaletti for the film's special effects, but I wasn't all that amazed with the end product. However, I definitely think that Aja is a talented director and that The Hills Have Eyes 2006 is the one of the two greatest horror remakes ever made (the other being John Carpenter's The Thing).

Haute Tension is great as well. The ending is pretty ridiculious when you watch the film for a second time and realize that it's utterly impossible for her to have done half the things she did (I won't go into it any further for those who haven't seen it), but it still shocked me when it happened. Not as good as some say, but still an exemplary modern slasher film.

Plus, the *********ion scene with U. Roy's "Runaway Girl" playing in the backround is awesome. One of my all time favorite dub songs.

4) Frontière(s) (2007) - This film should have been titled, "France's Take on Psychopathic, Inbred, Yeoman Farmers." Although definitely better than Wrong Turn, and better than Haute Tension, this is another film that I wasn't all that impressed with. My reaction is probably due to the fact that this film was hyped to hell before it hit the States. But, like Aja, Xavier Gens is definitely a director to watch out for.

6) Martyrs (2008) - Yep...after this film, I'm now drinking the French horror kool-aid. Just as graphic as any of the films I have already mentioned, and just as soul shattering as Irréversible, Martyrs, in my opinion, represents the pinnacle of ultraviolent horror. Here's to hoping that this film can at least be matched in terms of its shock factor and profundity (I don't think anything will ever be able to top it).

So, what say you? Is France where it's at right now in terms of horror? Can any other country match its horror output?

Glad you liked Martyrs and Frontiers, both of them are fantastic modern horror films, and better then 99% of American horror being made these days.

One very important new French horror film you didn't mention, which is probably not only the best French horror film ever made, but the best horror film made of the last 5 years--- and that is Inside (À l'intérieur). This film completely and totally blew me away. This takes the pregnant-horror of Rosemary's Baby, and multiplies it by 10,000.

If you liked those movies tdigle, do yourself a big favor, and immediately find a way to see Inside. Coming from a rabid horror guy like myself, trust me, it is WELL worth any investment you make to see it. Go. NOW!

Horror sells, horror is cheap to produce and the French film industry can't really afford to put out unsuccessful films. It's why a lot of the Spanish, Brazillian and Korean films you see are really good.

Yeah but none of these films were huge hits in France or anything; they're all quality made films that were really made specifically for the subculture of horror fanatics. These films didn't take the popular American approach of "find foriegn film, remake it without any of the things that made it good in the first place, put PG-13 rating on it and release/repeat", they really cared about making a good horror film.

I have also never *********ed over the rape scene in Irreversible, before xfear comes in and tars me with the same brush as himself.

As much as I love Monica Bellucci, I would never jack one to that scene. I'd feel like less of a pervert jackin' off to a Tijuana Donkey Show then I would to that scene.

I'm really glad to see a bit of horror talk here, keep it comin'!

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

One very important new French horror film you didn't mention, which is probably not only the best French horror film ever made, but the best horror film made of the last 5 years--- and that is Inside (À l'intérieur). This film completely and totally blew me away. This takes the pregnant-horror of Rosemary's Baby, and multiplies it by 10,000.

If you liked those movies tdigle, do yourself a big favor, and immediately find a way to see Inside. Coming from a rabid horror guy like myself, trust me, it is WELL worth any investment you make to see it. Go. NOW!

I guess number 5 didn't show up on your computer. Of course I would include Inside on this list! I agree with you about it being one of the best horror films made in the past 5 years. Overall, I don't think it was as good as Martyrs, but I think that comes more from Martyrs' emotional impact. However, Inside was a hell of a lot more suspenseful than Martyrs, and probably more gory, although, as I have already hinted at, I don't think the gore was as disturbing as Martyrs' gore (I can only assume that it has to do with how much more plausible and mean-spirited Martyrs was).

Horror sells, horror is cheap to produce and the French film industry can't really afford to put out unsuccessful films. It's why a lot of the Spanish, Brazillian and Korean films you see are really good.

I'm undecided if Switchblade Romance or Haute Tension is the better title.

I have also never *********ed over the rape scene in Irreversible, before xfear comes in and tars me with the same brush as himself.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to get at here, Jake. Are you arguing that contemporary horror from Spain, Brazil, and Korea is just as good as the horror that comes from France? If so, I would have to disagree with you there.

I'm hard pressed to think of anything great that has come out of Spain over the past few years save for [Rec]. People seem to think that Jaume Balagueró is an awesome director, but I think he sucks. It is my opinion that [Rec]'s greatness was either a fluke or that Paco Plaza had more to do with it than Balagueró. You could argue that The Orphanage is a horror film, but I personally thought it was more of a supernatural mystery.

Brazil? I can't think of any significant horror films to come from there save for the ones directed by José Mojica Marins.

As for Korea, there could be an argument made here, but there haven't been that many significant Korean horror films made over the past decade. Both A Tale of Two Sisters and The Host were great, but these are the only well-made Korean horror films to come out over the past ten years that I can think of at the moment. I'm going to a screening of Chan-wook Park's Thirst tonight, so maybe there's something to what you have to say (although reviews from Cannes are split down the middle for it).

 

[jmt225]

The only film I've seen from the list was Irréversible and yes... it is incredible and quite an experience to sit through. And after reading these posts, I plan of checking out Inside, Martyrs, and Frontière(s). They're all pretty cheap on Amazon, so I'll definitely be seeing them within the next few weeks.

And as far as French taking over the horror World... I'll obviously have to see these films before I come to that conclusion. But I will say as good as Irréversible was, I still hold some of Takashi Miike's work over it (Audition and Ichi the Killer being two of my favorite movies of all time). But I must admit I haven't seen anything out of him lately that I really enjoyed outside of Crows Zero, so I guess the horror genre could be slipping from him and Japan as a whole over to the French. And America? The only thing horror we can do now is remakes from the eighties, and remakes from other countries. It’s quite pathetic.

 

[FromTheSouth]

America would still be the king if every horror movie that came out wasn't fucking PG 13.

I hate seeing the commercial for Drag Me to Hell rated PG 13. American horror has lost it's bite. There is less blood, no gore, and not a trace of tits.

Scream, The Hills Have Eyes, and a precious few others have been good lately, but all the Japanese remakes sucked.

This thread has inspired me to look at French horror. I love a good horror movie, but a GOOD one is so hard to find.

 

[HansChristianFrankenstein]

I don't understand the appeal of French Horror. After all the rave reviews I hear, I always decide to watch them and I'm always severely disappointed. I really can't understand why people think so highly of this stuff. I know American Horror sucks right now but just having subtitles doesn't give a movie substance. Every time I watch one of these, it's the same dimly lit non-story we get here.

High Tension was almost good but the absurd ending completely ruined the film. It was insulting to Horror fans' intelligence.

 

[X]

I don't understand the appeal of French Horror. After all the rave reviews I hear, I always decide to watch them and I'm always severely disappointed. I really can't understand why people think so highly of this stuff. I know American Horror sucks right now but just having subtitles doesn't give a movie substance. Every time I watch one of these, it's the same dimly lit non-story we get here.

Non-story? That's not really a logical complaint when talking about horror films, which are famous for their lack of deep plots and simple story structures.

Basic horror film plot: Man/thing is crazy/evil. Man/thing kills people. Man/thing is defeated. End of movie.

High Tension was almost good but the absurd ending completely ruined the film. It was insulting to Horror fans' intelligence.

The ending, when looking back through the movie's events, is utterly and completely impossible for several reasons. I won't go into them here so as not to spoil the ending, because say what you will about it that ending at the very least shocks you. I'm rarely if ever shocked by a "twist" ending, but this one did it.

Haute Tension is pretty good overall though. Not a classic, but very good.

 

[HansChristianFrankenstein]

Non-story? That's not really a logical complaint when talking about horror films, which are famous for their lack of deep plots and simple story structures.

Basic horror film plot: Man/thing is crazy/evil. Man/thing kills people. Man/thing is defeated. End of movie.

They don't have to be though and just throwing together a Horror-by-numbers flick to make money is lame, no matter what country it's from.

 

[X]

They don't have to be though and just throwing together a Horror-by-numbers flick to make money is lame, no matter what country it's from.

First off, let me just say you've got to beef up your posts in the non-spam sections or you're going to get infractions.

Secondly, some of the best horror films have had little to no plot. What's the plot of Night of the Living Dead? Zombies are outside of house, people are stuck inside of that house. No explanation is ever given as to why zombies are coming to life, or where they are, or who they are. They're just people fighting zombies.

Simple doesn't equal bad.

 

[HansChristianFrankenstein]

I would consider great Horror films to be:


Baby Blues
Blair Witch Project
Cuju
Dark Hours
Devil's Rejects
Farmhouse
Funny Games
Hamiltons
Hide and Seek
House of 1,000 Corpses
May
Marcus
Misery
Pet Sematary
Rob Zombie's Halloween
Rosemary's Baby
Shining

etc...

Or if a Horror flick is also comedic, I enjoy those since it's a hard thing to do. Stuff like the Leprechaun series, the Child's Play series, the Sleepaway Camps, The Dentist flicks, Otis, the Scream series...is quality.

 

[jmt225]

Wow... man, no offense, but God I hate some of the movies you listed.

The fucking Funny Games remake is one of the worst movies I've ever seen. I go into great detail as to why I hate that piece of garbage here.

And you have the audacity to list Otis as a good comedic horror film? Lol... that movie was nearly as bad as Funny Games. The story, like Funny Games, was very promising, but man... the entire third act ruins the entire fucking thing. It was beyond ******ed.

Like I said earlier, I've only seen Irréversible from Tdigs' list, but I can still say that Irréversible is way, way better than about 80% of the movies you listed.

 

[HansChristianFrankenstein]

Funny Games was everything a Horror movie should be. 99% of Horror movies end with an unrealistic happy ending, the whole point of this film was to be a Horror movie for Horror fans. And the brilliance of it is that it's plot based. There's no gore and no jumps. The horror element comes from the story, which is a rare thing.

And Otis was an awesome movie. Very much like a Rob Zombie film (just with less gore). A really creative and original story which is rare in Horror these days. It was also really funny but the humor was subdued enough to still be able to treat it as a Horror film. Jere Burns was outstanding as the completely unsympathetic FBI agent. The only fault I have with the movie is the ending which was really anticlimactic. Although, the alternate ending was phenomenal.

 

[X]

Funny Games was everything a Horror movie should be. 99% of Horror movies end with an unrealistic happy ending, the whole point of this film was to be a Horror movie for Horror fans. And the brilliance of it is that it's plot based. There's no gore and no jumps. The horror element comes from the story, which is a rare thing.

First off, I truly hope you know that the Tim Roth version is a remake. The original is better. Much better.

As for the horror element coming from the story...not really. Yet another film with a bare-bones plot. Crazy/evil people torture good people. That's been done a thousand times, not exactly original or complex.

I still enjoyed the remake though, mostly because Michael Pitt and Tim Roth are amazing.

And Otis was an awesome movie. Very much like a Rob Zombie film (just with less gore). A really creative and original story which is rare in Horror these days. It was also really funny but the humor was subdued enough to still be able to treat it as a Horror film. Jere Burns was outstanding as the completely unsympathetic FBI agent. The only fault I have with the movie is the ending which was really anticlimactic. Although, the alternate ending was phenomenal.

I can't believe I just heard the words "creative and original" alongside the name Rob Zombie. Every one of Zombie's films are just long extended rip-offs of old horror films. House of 1000 Corpses might as well have been a remake of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, it's the exact same story.

The Devil's Rejects is his only original film, and it's his only film that can be called great. But even that was full of small rip-offs of earlier films. Zombie rips off more then Tarantino for christ's sake.

Alot of the movies you listed are quite terrible. Hide and Seek? Seriously? That's got to be one of the worst films of any genre I've ever seen. If you didn't know the ending of that movie within 10 minutes then I feel sorry for you. Utter rubbish.

I'm really confused here. You say you hate horror films that follow your basic horror stories and cliches, and then you go and list about a dozen films that do exactly that.

I mean the fucking Dentist movies?! Seriously?! LEPRECHAUN?!

Wow. You are no longer allowed to criticize horror films.

Don't get me wrong, those kinds of movies are very enjoyable. But they're enjoyable because they're fucking awful. Same thing with the Sleepaway Camp movies (which I absolutely adore). They are the furthest thing from originality, creativity, or frightening. They're run of the mill slashers with a dark slapstick sense of humor---but I'd hardly hold them in the same breath as Rosemary's Baby.

 

[HansChristianFrankenstein]

First off, I truly hope you know that the Tim Roth version is a remake. The original is better. Much better.

Um...yes, I've seen the original and you do know that the American version is a shot-for-shot remake, right? I'm confused on how it's "much better" LOL.

I can't believe I just heard the words "creative and original" alongside the name Rob Zombie. Every one of Zombie's films are just long extended rip-offs of old horror films. House of 1000 Corpses might as well have been a remake of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, it's the exact same story.

Wait...I missed the part in TCM with the fried chicken selling, killer clown. I'll have to re-watch it. But while I'm doing that, you should look up the words "homage" and "exact". Then we'll get back to eachother and discuss our findings.

Alot of the movies you listed are quite terrible. Hide and Seek? Seriously? That's got to be one of the worst films of any genre I've ever seen. If you didn't know the ending of that movie within 10 minutes then I feel sorry for you. Utter rubbish.

I'm really confused here. You say you hate horror films that follow your basic horror stories and cliches, and then you go and list about a dozen films that do exactly that.

I mean the fucking Dentist movies?! Seriously?! LEPRECHAUN?!

Wow. You are no longer allowed to criticize horror films.

Don't get me wrong, those kinds of movies are very enjoyable. But they're enjoyable because they're fucking awful. Same thing with the Sleepaway Camp movies (which I absolutely adore). They are the furthest thing from originality, creativity, or frightening. They're run of the mill slashers with a dark slapstick sense of humor---but I'd hardly hold them in the same breath as Rosemary's Baby.

What part of "Horror Comedy", didn't you understand?

 

[X]

Um...yes, I've seen the original and you do know that the American version is a shot-for-shot remake, right? I'm confused on how it's "much better" LOL.

Simply my preference. The remake feels much more glossy and safe, whereas the original felt unpredictable and gritty. Plus Naomi Watts is pure trash.

Wait...I missed the part in TCM with the fried chicken selling, killer clown. I'll have to re-watch it. But while I'm doing that, you should look up the words "homage" and "exact". Then we'll get back to eachother and discuss our findings.

Are you seriously going to argue that House of 1000 Corpses isn't a ripoff of TCM? Seriously? Because they didn't copy every little detail? Rob Zombie himself has admitted that House of 1000 Corpses is an "homage" to TCM.

The word "homage" in horror though, is just a way of trying not to admit that you couldn't come up with anything original or creative and instead just ripped people off.

Seriously, both films follow the same exact story. Group of kids on the road are stranded in small town, get taken in by insane and deformed family, are then murdered and tortured by that family. I could be describing House of 1000 Corpses or Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

I can't believe you're actually going to argue that House of 1000 Corpses is original or creative.

What part of "Horror Comedy", didn't you understand?

The only movies that you listed that are actual intentional horror-comedies would be Sleepaway Camp 2 & 3, and that shitty Otis film. So appparently you yourself don't understand the word.

Further more, you didn't even attempt to reply to anything I brought up in that entire statement. Like how almost every movie you listed isn't the least bit original or creative. Or how you claim to hate horror movies that go by the same old story, and then list cliched movie after cliched movie. You even list movies that were made entirely for the purpose of being exactly alike other films. Slasher movies are like the perfect example of cliched, same-old-story horror films.

I'm just trying to make sense of your own statements. Because you keep contradicting them.

 

[HansChristianFrankenstein]

Simply my preference. The remake feels much more glossy and safe, whereas the original felt unpredictable and gritty. Plus Naomi Watts is pure trash.

LOL Yeah, the remake would be more predictable since you knew what was gonna happen....

Are you seriously going to argue that House of 1000 Corpses isn't a ripoff of TCM? Seriously? Because they didn't copy every little detail? Rob Zombie himself has admitted that House of 1000 Corpses is an "homage" to TCM.

The word "homage" in horror though, is just a way of trying not to admit that you couldn't come up with anything original or creative and instead just ripped people off.

Seriously, both films follow the same exact story. Group of kids on the road are stranded in small town, get taken in by insane and deformed family, are then murdered and tortured by that family. I could be describing House of 1000 Corpses or Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

I can't believe you're actually going to argue that House of 1000 Corpses is original or creative.

If you honestly can't see the big differences between the films, I'm not going to waste my time arguing about it with you since you obviously have no respect for the genre and see every film as black and white. Horror, like any genre, has common themes that appear quite a bit, but that doesn't make them carbon copy's. By your logic, Scream is a Halloween rip-off. Halloween is a Black Christmas rip-off and so on.

The only movies that you listed that are actual intentional horror-comedies would be Sleepaway Camp 2 & 3, and that shitty Otis film. So appparently you yourself don't understand the word.

Once again, if you honestly don't think films like Leprechaun in the Hood and Bride of Chucky are Horror Comedy's, I'm not going to argue with you. You obviously don't have a very good grasp of the genre.

 

[NSL]

I'd like to expand your thoughts tdigs, and say that Europe as a whole has taken over the entire horror genre.

We've talked, at length, about Let The Right One In, possibly the best vampire movie made in the last 50 years. It's from Sweden, and has some of the best camera work, and acting, of any genre that's come out recently.

Thanks to our Scandanavian brethren, we'll be getting a new subtitled horror film this summer, and it looks to be equally impressive. Dod Sno is a Norwegian horror movie, based around Nazi zombies. Sure, it sounds a little campy, but from the little I've seen as far as previews, and everything I've read about it, it should be up to par with everything else we've seen from Europe.

 

[X]

LOL Yeah, the remake would be more predictable since you knew what was gonna happen....

Actually smart-guy, I saw the remake first. The point I was trying to make was that the remake felt glossy and safe and extremely Hollywood-ized, while the original felt like a gritty almost documentary-like film.

If you honestly can't see the big differences between the films, I'm not going to waste my time arguing about it with you since you obviously have no respect for the genre and see every film as black and white. Horror, like any genre, has common themes that appear quite a bit, but that doesn't make them carbon copy's. By your logic, Scream is a Halloween rip-off. Halloween is a Black Christmas rip-off and so on.

You clearly know absolutely nothing about me, because if you did, you'd realize I'm probably the biggest horror movie fan on this forum, I'm a regular poster over at Bloody-Disgusting and have been obsessively watching the genre since I was six years old. So sorry buddy, but I'm pretty sure any horror knowledge you could come up with, I could counter rather easily.

That entire paragraph, once again, did not address any of the questions I've posed to you. Such as the fact that you praise originality and creativeness in horror films, say that horror films that follow your stereotypical story suck, and then proceed to praise an entire list of horror films that are nothing but long cliches. I'm not saying they're not enjoyable films, because they are, but you're not exactly going to tell me that something like Leprechaun stands up to something like Videodrome or The Exorcist.

And saying Scream is like a ripoff of Halloween or Halloween is a ripoff of Black Christmas isn't the same, because none of those films follow a nearly identical storyline. Every one of those films have different settings, COMPLETELY different killers with COMPLETELY different motivations.

Unlike House of 1000 Corpses, which is basically just a remake of TCM without Leatherface.

Once again, if you honestly don't think films like Leprechaun in the Hood and Bride of Chucky are Horror Comedy's, I'm not going to argue with you. You obviously don't have a very good grasp of the genre.

Work on the reading comprehension skills kid, because I stated that those films are not intentional horror comedies. The original Leprechaun and Child's Play films were both made as strictly horror films; what made them comedic were the incredibly campy elements of the stories. There's a difference between unintentionally making someone laugh at a horror film, and, say, Evil Dead 2 and it's pire slapstick comedy.

The fact that you're able to sum up my entire knowledge of horror films within 2 posts is amazing, considering you know nothing of me. But yeah, I have no grasp on horror right? Tell that to the autographs of Craven, Cronenberg & Moustapha Akkad hanging on my wall right now.

 

[HansChristianFrankenstein]

Actually smart-guy, I saw the remake first. The point I was trying to make was that the remake felt glossy and safe and extremely Hollywood-ized, while the original felt like a gritty almost documentary-like film.

A documentary where you can rewind to change something that happened. Indeed.

You clearly know absolutely nothing about me, because if you did, you'd realize I'm probably the biggest horror movie fan on this forum, I'm a regular poster over at Bloody-Disgusting and have been obsessively watching the genre since I was six years old.

I don't care where you post or how long you've been watching. The things you say are absurd and show no knowledge whatsoever of the genre.

That entire paragraph, once again, did not address any of the questions I've posed to you. Such as the fact that you praise originality and creativeness in horror films, say that horror films that follow your stereotypical story suck, and then proceed to praise an entire list of horror films that are nothing but long cliches. I'm not saying they're not enjoyable films, because they are, but you're not exactly going to tell me that something like Leprechaun stands up to something like Videodrome or The Exorcist.

*sigh* We're going in circles again. If you think films like Cujo, Rosemary's Baby, Pet Sematary, The Shining, Misery, etc...are "nothing but long cliches", fine but I disagree. You have the right to your opinion but honestly, I don't take it seriously enough to give much of a response.

And saying Scream is like a ripoff of Halloween or Halloween is a ripoff of Black Christmas isn't the same, because none of those films follow a nearly identical storyline. Every one of those films have different settings, COMPLETELY different killers with COMPLETELY different motivations.

Unlike House of 1000 Corpses, which is basically just a remake of TCM without Leatherface.

Circles again. Dude, I'm not gonna argue with you. If you can't see the differences between TCM and HO1KC, fine but I think it's quite foolish and I stand by my analogy. Halloween was a masked villian roaming around killing teenagers one by one until he was defeated by the lead female. Scream was two masked dudes roaming around killing teenagers one by one until they were defeated by the lead female. Were they the same movie? Certainly not. But by YOUR logic, Scream was a Halloween remake.

Work on the reading comprehension skills kid, because I stated that those films are not intentional horror comedies. The original Leprechaun and Child's Play films were both made as strictly horror films; what made them comedic were the incredibly campy elements of the stories. There's a difference between unintentionally making someone laugh at a horror film, and, say, Evil Dead 2 and it's pire slapstick comedy.

LOL Maybe you should work on YOUR reading comprehension skills, tiger. I said Leprechaun in the Hood and Bride of Chucky, I made no mention of Leprechaun and Child's Play. You can't just try and pretend I said one movie when I said another, just so you can have a retort. Especially when you quote what I actually said LOL. Come on now.

But yeah, I have no grasp on horror right? Tell that to the autographs of Craven, Cronenberg & Moustapha Akkad hanging on my wall right now.

What does that have to do with anything? Did you have to pass a quiz to get the autographs? What the fuck...

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

I don't understand the appeal of French Horror. After all the rave reviews I hear, I always decide to watch them and I'm always severely disappointed. I really can't understand why people think so highly of this stuff. I know American Horror sucks right now but just having subtitles doesn't give a movie substance. Every time I watch one of these, it's the same dimly lit non-story we get here.

High Tension was almost good but the absurd ending completely ruined the film. It was insulting to Horror fans' intelligence.

I would like to know exactly which of the movies on my original list you have actually seen. If High Tension is the only film that you have had the chance to watch, then I suggest that you give the rest of them a try. As I already said in my original post, High Tension was probably the film that I was least thrilled with.

In my opinion, save for Funny Games (which isn't really a horror film, by the way), Irreversible, Inside, and Martyrs beats everything that you have on your list (however, I'll admit that it isn't really fair to mention Irreversible here, as, in my opinion, it isn't really a horror film, although I respect xfearbefore's belief that it is). Of all those films, the only one I haven't seen is Baby Blues, so, I can't pass judgment on that one.

 

[HansChristianFrankenstein]

Inside had good gore but there was really no story. I would have liked to have seen more dialogue and character development than just the cat and mouse routine. Not the worst movie I've seen but nothing special in my opinion.

Haven't seen Irreversible or Martyrs but I have seen Calvaire and Them, which both got a lot of hype and was severely disappointed. Again, it was just the same dimly lit, non-storys we get here. After those, I took the rest of the French Horror flicks off my Netflix queue.

 

[X]

A documentary where you can rewind to change something that happened. Indeed.

I think you know exactly what I meant by that comment. Realism could've been used as well. Are you really going to nitpick words like that?

I don't care where you post or how long you've been watching. The things you say are absurd and show no knowledge whatsoever of the genre.

What exactly did I say that was so absurd? That House of 1000 Corpses is mostly a ripoff of TCM? That Evil Dead 2 was a true example of a horror-comedy and not the Dentist? Yes, what blasphemy against the horror gods I've spoken.

*sigh* We're going in circles again. If you think films like Cujo, Rosemary's Baby, Pet Sematary, The Shining, Misery, etc...are "nothing but long cliches", fine but I disagree. You have the right to your opinion but honestly, I don't take it seriously enough to give much of a response.

I find it hilarious that you mention pretty much every single film that I didn't object to on your list. Did you even read my post? The only films I was speaking about were the Leprechaun, Dentist & Sleepaway Camp films, and mainly slasher films in general. In fact I praised Rosemary's Baby among others in one of my earlier posts, so please stop making up things that I did not say.

As for running circles, you've yet to respond to your contradictory statements that I have now mentioned in three posts in a row now, something you continuously keep ducking. You stated you dislike horror films that follow basic cliched storylines, and then proceeded to list several slasher films as examples of "true" horror. Don't get me wrong, I love slashers, they're probably my favorite sub-genre of horror (infact I actually just finished watching The Prowler not twenty minutes ago). But they are the most glaring example of cliched storylines and blatant rip-offs. That's their bread and butter.

Circles again. Dude, I'm not gonna argue with you. If you can't see the differences between TCM and HO1KC, fine but I think it's quite foolish and I stand by my analogy. Halloween was a masked villian roaming around killing teenagers one by one until he was defeated by the lead female. Scream was two masked dudes roaming around killing teenagers one by one until they were defeated by the lead female. Were they the same movie? Certainly not. But by YOUR logic, Scream was a Halloween remake.

Except I've already proven your analogy and accusations to be incorrect.

The killers are the main problem with your Scream-Halloween analogy. Michael Myers is silent, brooding and slow. Billy & Stu on the other hand were brash, wild and clumsy. Not in any way alike.

Secondly, the only similiarities between those two films are that they both involve a killer in a mask. That's a single thing similiar, and very vague at that. Whereas in HO1KC, large chunks of the entire plot have been borrowed from TCM. Very different analogies.

There are far more then just "similiarities" between HO1KC and TCM. Both involve teenagers being stranded in a remote part of Texas, where they are subsequently tortured and murdered by an insane and deformed family.

I'm not even saying that this makes HO1KC a bad film, because it's still enjoyable every now and then. But don't try and bullshit me that it's an example of an original and creative film.

LOL Maybe you should work on YOUR reading comprehension skills, tiger. I said Leprechaun in the Hood and Bride of Chucky, I made no mention of Leprechaun and Child's Play. You can't just try and pretend I said one movie when I said another, just so you can have a retort. Especially when you quote what I actually said LOL. Come on now.

Clearly you don't understand what defines a horror-comedy. For a film to be a real example of a horror-comedy, the comedy itself would have to come from the horror elements. An example of this, again using Evil Dead 2, is below.

[youtube]PzXk3nfEdMY[/youtube]

Notice how the horror elements of Ash's hand being possessed and demons trying to drive him insane are used for slapstick comedy effects?

Now, here's a random "comedic" scene from Bride of Chucky.

[youtube]g-0QwnNkjJE[/youtube]

Notice how the humor in this scene doesn't derive from the actual plot or elements of horror, but instead on the fact that a doll is giving a stoner the middle finger?

Just one example, I'm sure I could find several more. There's a difference between a horror-comedy, and a horror film with some comedy thrown in here and there. There's also a large difference between horror-comedy and simple campy filmmaking.

What does that have to do with anything? Did you have to pass a quiz to get the autographs? What the fuck...

It has to do with the fact that you claim I know absolutely nothing about horror. For someone who doesn't know very much about horror, I seem to be schooling you in the subject rather easily.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Inside had good gore but there was really no story. I would have liked to have seen more dialogue and character development than just the cat and mouse routine. Not the worst movie I've seen but nothing special in my opinion.

That's cool. But, let's think about this for a second. Not only was Inside suspenseful, plausible, and extremely gory, but it also managed to make its point in under 80 minutes. I think that speaks volumes to its efficiency and pacing, which, in my opinion, are key to making a great horror film.

Haven't seen Irreversible or Martyrs but I have seen Calvaire and Them, which both got a lot of hype and was severely disappointed. Again, it was just the same dimly lit, non-storys we get here. After those, I took the rest of the French Horror flicks off my Netflix queue.

If you have netflix, then all of the films that I have mentioned are readily available to you. It's unfortunate that you saw Ils and Calvaire first, because both of those films suck ass (the only place where those will be considered part of the wave of French horror are in imdb chat forums; no serious horror fan will laud those pieces of crap).

If you are a horror buff, then I really think you should at least check out Irreversible and Martyrs. I respect the fact that you aren't a fan of repetition, and that you value originality. So, skip Sheitan and Frontiere(s), because you probably won't like those.

But, at the very least, I can guarantee that you'll have an appreciation for Irreversible and Martyrs after watching them.

 

[HansChristianFrankenstein]

...

Like I said, I'm done running in circles. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion's, but I don't have to respect them. It seems like you're just trying to say the "right things" but don't have the knowledge to back it up and are now caught in some desperate attempt at backtracking and I'm not going to play into it. So let's just agree to disagree.