Final Arguments....Again!!!

[hatehabsforever]

Is it just me, or is this whole Election process really starting to drag on? They got the ball rolling in late November, and now it is looking like it will easily go into January before we have a winner in the election and have named our newest moderator. We all have stated our positions on numerous occasions, and it seems redundant to do it again. But with three more days of campaigning and whatnot to go, before a week of round one of the primaries, I guess it's the appropriate time to do it all again. So here goes.

I have stated my position with regards to moderation on several occasions. The area where I feel I have the most to offer is in the non-spam wrestling sections. This should be the bread and butter of these forums. It is what brought me to this site in the first place approximately five years ago, and it is what keeps me coming back to this day. All due respect to the spam sections, the various non-spam non-wrestling sections, and any other subsections of these forums, but this is a wrestling website first and foremost and as such, this is the area which requires the most attention. Priority one should be keeping these areas in tip top shape, and part of that process is having the appropriate staff in place to do so.

My first love here is of course WWE. But with Nate, Nick, and Jack having this section completely under control, I'm not sure if a fourth mod is really necessary, or at least, it probably isn't the top priority. However, I do feel that there is a need for a second person to co-moderate the TNA section. This is in no way to suggest that IDR hasn't been doing a wonderful job of it, because his work has been stellar. It certainly is no criticism of his efforts. However, the product is improving, the traffic is increasing, and I think it is time for a second set of eyes and hands to maintain the excellence of the section that IDR has thus far been doing singlehandedly. That is why I have decided right from the get go of this process, to focus my efforts on becoming co-moderator of the TNA section.

D-Man indicated in some other thread that the whole idea of a second TNA moderator has already been discussed to some degree. IDR himself seems receptive to the idea, as he posted in the Bar Room yesterday. As his imminent marriage approaches, as his fiancee remains busy, and as other matters in life get in the way to an increasing degree, such as work, life outside of the forums, and of course the NHL, IDR will need a partner here more so than ever. And I respectfully submit that I am the guy for the job. My longevity on these forums helps in my suitability for the job. The respectful manner in which I deal with other forum members is undeniable, which would serve me well in interacting with other staff members as well as the general forum population. And I think I bring a unique perspective to the table, that being modding the section from a completely polar opposite perspective from IDR. To a large degree, I say black when he says white. I am up when he is down. That's not to say that I will always disagree with him simply for disagreement sake, but past history would indicate that we look at the product completely differently, yet always respectfully, and I think this dynamic could (and often has already) spawn a lot of really interesting discussion in the section. Rather than having two marks co-mod the section (which I say with absolutely no offense intended), I think it would be interesting to bring a new dimension to the discussions. I think it is a recipe for success.

Some guys have criticized my recent lack of posting in the TNA section while I produce these "word forts". Guilty as charged, but I admittedly have been preoccupied with the election, assembling the best team possible, to give Coco and likely Crock a true run for their money. I really want whoever represents our party to win the election. Hope it is me, I think it could and should be, but even if it is not, I want whoever it is to be victorious. While my recent posting activity has been sporadic, I've never been a believer in quantity over quality. If I can't give a well thought out post, I'd rather not give one at all. As a general rule of thumb, my level of activity in the section is more than adequate to do the job effectively. And it will return to that level again, once the distraction of this election is over.

Frankly, I don't think the currently un-modded sections require full time moderation. The spam sections definitely do not, as current admins, G-Mods, and regular mods can and have been sustaining them perfectly, and with another staff member on board, it will be that much easier to do so. All due respect to VG & T, or sports, but the traffic simply isn't there to necessitate a full time mod. The guys who keep these sections running can continue to do so without needing to be a mod to do so. I'm not diminishing the significance of these sections, I just simply don't think they require a full time moderator.

One thing I will continue to refuse to do is to attack my teammates. Many of them would make excellent mods. I won't come in here and suggest Dagger doesn't know the rules, because he definitely does. I won't suggest that Slinger, or Killjoy, or MTM, or an of the others would be terrible mods because we all know that would be incorrect. There will be no implosion of he party coming from me. I just happen to feel that I am a better suited candidate for a section which is more in need of attention at this point in time. I'll throw no one under the bus in seeking this position.

We can definitely win this election. If we stay on track, get a high voter turnout, rally fully completely behind whoever ultimately gets the nod, and avoid collapse from within, Coco and Crock are going down, and I for one would love to see it happen. Going into this process, there were some who felt the result was a foregone conclusion. I beg to differ and when you look at his recent smear campaign tactics, I think he is starting to realize it too. This election is ours for the taking. Just consider who amongst us is the most electable. Who has the best chance to beat these guys head to head. Who can maintain party unity,while luring in the undecided voters and the discontented voters from other parties. I think it is me, and I hope you agree with me, and will show me your support throughout the process.

And for the love of God, let's get on with this thing! Please let this be the last one of these lengthy campaign things I need to do. Enough is enough.

 

[LSN80]

Ill be gentle, Habs, I promise.

I have stated my position with regards to moderation on several occasions. The area where I feel I have the most to offer is in the non-spam wrestling sections. This should be the bread and butter of these forums. It is what brought me to this site in the first place approximately five years ago, and it is what keeps me coming back to this day. All due respect to the spam sections, the various non-spam non-wrestling sections, and any other subsections of these forums, but this is a wrestling website first and foremost and as such, this is the area which requires the most attention. Priority one should be keeping these areas in tip top shape, and part of that process is having the appropriate staff in place to do so

.

I agree with all of this, especially with the wrestling being the first and foremost priority on this site. I appreciate my spot as the CL Mod, but know it's second tier, in essence. I'm here first and foremost for wrestling myself.

However, the bolded part is what I really want to touch on. I joined here two years ago, and you're someone I've known since virtually the beginning. I've never heard or seen from you before now a desire to become a Moderator, and I'm wondering why that is. Further, as a tenured, respected poster, why do you believe a Mod spot hasn't been extended to you as of yet? Do you feel it's a simple case of being overlooked? I'm not asking you to be a mindreader here, just an educated guess.

I do feel that there is a need for a second person to co-moderate the TNA section. This is in no way to suggest that IDR hasn't been doing a wonderful job of it, because his work has been stellar. It certainly is no criticism of his efforts. However, the product is improving, the traffic is increasing, and I think it is time for a second set of eyes and hands to maintain the excellence of the section that IDR has thus far been doing singlehandedly. That is why I have decided right from the get go of this process, to focus my efforts on becoming co-moderator of the TNA section.

The traffic in the section has increased, this cannot be denied. But there are other posters running for Moderator who are more active then you in the TNA section, specifically KillJoy. Im not asking you to throw him under the bus here, but in order to truly make your case to be Moderator, you need to believe you're the best choice, even above those in the party you started. So, what makes you the better choice then a KJ?

D-Man indicated in some other thread that the whole idea of a second TNA moderator has already been discussed to some degree.

That is correct, but no plans have been put into place, nor have discussions begun as to when or who. So, why now?

I My longevity on these forums helps in my suitability for the job. The respectful manner in which I deal with other forum members is undeniable, which would serve me well in interacting with other staff members as well as the general forum population. And I think I bring a unique perspective to the table, that being modding the section from a completely polar opposite perspective from IDR.

You're good people, that can't be denied. You're one of my favorite people on this site, and you know that already. But why does being a nice, respectful guy make you a good choice to be a Moderator? Specifically, how knowledgeable do you consider yourself to be regarding TNA? You can hang with IDR, (and sometimes myself), when it comes to discussing hockey, but can you do similarly with IDR when it comes to TNA, and how so?

To a large degree, I say black when he says white. I am up when he is down. That's not to say that I will always disagree with him simply for disagreement sake, but past history would indicate that we look at the product completely differently, yet always respectfully, and I think this dynamic could (and often has already) spawn a lot of really interesting discussion in the section. Rather than having two marks co-mod the section (which I say with absolutely no offense intended), I think it would be interesting to bring a new dimension to the discussions. I think it is a recipe for success.

To this I say "bravo", because I love the idea. While I run the CL, KB and Sly post in 50% of my threads, and they often are the ying to my yang, so to speak. It makes me a better Moderator, and makes the section better. Just one question here: Do you have any examples of when you've done this successfully with IDR within TNA in the past? If not, why not?

Some guys have criticized my recent lack of posting in the TNA section while I produce these "word forts". Guilty as charged, but I admittedly have been preoccupied with the election, assembling the best team possible, to give Coco and likely Crock a true run for their money. I really want whoever represents our party to win the election.

Do you really believe that anyone who comes out of our party will be the best person for the job? To be honest, this comes off similarly to me voting Republican just because that's how I'm registered. So, if it's not you, do you truly believe that ANY representative would be the best representative for the party, or are you simply supporting party lines out of loyalty? (I mean no offense by this, please understand.)

As a general rule of thumb, my level of activity in the section is more than adequate to do the job effectively. And it will return to that level again, once the distraction of this election is over.

Thanks for clearing this up. Ive seen you post frequently in TNA in the past, but not recently.

Frankly, I don't think the currently un-modded sections require full time moderation. The spam sections definitely do not, as current admins, G-Mods, and regular mods can and have been sustaining them perfectly, and with another staff member on board, it will be that much easier to do so. All due respect to VG & T, or sports, but the traffic simply isn't there to necessitate a full time mod. The guys who keep these sections running can continue to do so without needing to be a mod to do so. I'm not diminishing the significance of these sections, I just simply don't think they require a full time moderator.

Ok, fair enough, and I'm not going to argue most of this point. I'm in agreement that the spam sections absolutely do not need Moderation further then they already have. However, that still leaves the non-spam section to discuss. Why do you believe one non-spam section needs two moderators over leaving a non-spam section(say, M &T for example) with no moderation?

One thing I will continue to refuse to do is to attack my teammates. Many of them would make excellent mods. I won't come in here and suggest Dagger doesn't know the rules, because he definitely does. I won't suggest that Slinger, or Killjoy, or MTM, or an of the others would be terrible mods because we all know that would be incorrect.

There's a difference between attacking your party members, and saying your the better choice. And it may come down to what I'm about to say/ask:

If it comes down to it, are you able to drop the party allegiance if say, Killjoy says he's the better choice then you? How would you respond to that? What if Dagger, or MTM, or JW, or Ba-Bomb comes at you, saying they're better then you? What will you say to them to convince others that you're simply the best choice?

There will be no implosion of he party coming from me. I just happen to feel that I am a better suited candidate for a section which is more in need of attention at this point in time. I'll throw no one under the bus in seeking this position.

There's a difference between throwing someone under the bus, and showing enough confidence in yourself that you're the best choice. Thoughts?

We can definitely win this election. If we stay on track, get a high voter turnout, rally fully completely behind whoever ultimately gets the nod, and avoid collapse from within, Coco and Crock are going down, and I for one would love to see it happen. Going into this process, there were some who felt the result was a foregone conclusion. I beg to differ and when you look at his recent smear campaign tactics, I think he is starting to realize it too. This election is ours for the taking.

I'm in agreement with this, or I wouldn't have joined this party or grilled all of you as I have. I want to see the best, most prepared candidate come out of here, and this is just a warmup. I'm a cream puff compared to what's to come.

Just consider who amongst us is the most electable.

Is this you? Why?

Who has the best chance to beat these guys head to head. Who can maintain party unity,while luring in the undecided voters and the discontented voters from other parties. I think it is me, and I hope you agree with me, and will show me your support throughout the process.

For arguments sake, let's say this is you. You may not want division amongst your party, but you're going to need to poke holes into the other candidates. So, with that logic, i ask:

1. What makes you the better choice over CoCo?
2. Why would you be a better Moderator then Crock?

I'm sure you'll do this respectfully, but you're going to need to attack them, or at least their platforms. Start now.

And for the love of God, let's get on with this thing! Please let this be the last one of these lengthy campaign things I need to do. Enough is enough.

Agreed. Best of luck to you.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Ill be gentle, Habs, I promise.

No reason to be gentle, LSN, I don't expect Coco, Crock/Harthan, or KB to be gentle with me if I make it that far. And as you know from the Sports Debaters League, I think I am more than capable of taking care of myself. Now I just want the opportunity to prove it.

However, the bolded part is what I really want to touch on. I joined here two years ago, and you're someone I've known since virtually the beginning. I've never heard or seen from you before now a desire to become a Moderator, and I'm wondering why that is. Further, as a tenured, respected poster, why do you believe a Mod spot hasn't been extended to you as of yet? Do you feel it's a simple case of being overlooked? I'm not asking you to be a mindreader here, just an educated guess.

For my first couple of years on here, I was a very sporadic poster, amassing a whopping 50 or so posts in 2007, and about half of that in 2008. So a mod ship was never a consideration for me, and I doubt the staff even knew who I was back then. Once my activity increased, I simply never really considered modding. This was something that was entirely at the discretion of the existing staff, rather than something to be actually pursued. My thoughts have always been, if I were to be approached about a mod based upon merit, I would definitely consider it. If not, that would be fine too; I have never been a believer in actively pursuing a mod position by conventional means, as others have been accused of doing. This is the first opportunity to actively pursue one. I decided to give it a shot.

Frankly, this started off for me more so about who should not become our newest mod, more so than who should. That's why I came up with the concept of the ABC Party in the first place. As this process has dragged on, I have come to realize that I would be a good choice to be a mod, and as such have decided to pursue it.

In terms of why I have never been offered a position before, I'm not really sure. I like to think, rightly or wrongly, that I have been given at least some consideration at certain points in the past, but he offer has simply gone elsewhere. Which I have no problem understanding, there are a lot of excellent posters on here, just look at then people on our team, both those who are running and those who are not. Mustang Sally, Big Sexy, Theo, FunKay, Mitch, and lots of others are all great posters. No shame in standing in line behind guys like this.

The traffic in the section has increased, this cannot be denied. But there are other posters running for Moderator who are more active then you in the TNA section, specifically KillJoy. Im not asking you to throw him under the bus here, but in order to truly make your case to be Moderator, you need to believe you're the best choice, even above those in the party you started. So, what makes you the better choice then a KJ?

I won't throw Killjoy under the bus as I have stated repeatedly. But I think he is cut from the same cloth as IDR in that he is a TNA "mark". This is not intended to be derogatory to either of them, but they are both very pro-TNA. I think I bring a new dimension to the position, the ability to do the job intelligently, respectfully, but from a diametrically opposite perspective, which I think is tailor made to spawning interesting discussions and debates.

That is correct, but no plans have been put into place, nor have discussions begun as to when or who. So, why now?

I've already dealt with this one too. The TNA product is improving. Traffic is correspondingly increasing. And our lone TNA mod, while doing a tremendous job, is over-worked. He's getting married soon and as such will have more demands upon his time beyond these forums. There's no better time for someone to step in and pitch in. Someone like me.

You're good people, that can't be denied. You're one of my favorite people on this site, and you know that already. But why does being a nice, respectful guy make you a good choice to be a Moderator? Specifically, how knowledgeable do you consider yourself to be regarding TNA? You can hang with IDR, (and sometimes myself), when it comes to discussing hockey, but can you do similarly with IDR when it comes to TNA, and how so?

Being a nice, respectful moderator is an important aspect of the job. You're living proof of this, as is Brain and several others. That's not to say you have to be an ass kisser, but there's no down side to being polite and respectful. Firm when necessary, and able to stand on your own two feet with no problem. You don't have to be a "Nazi mod" to be an effective moderator.

I consider myself perfectly knowledgeable about TNA, certainly as much as any of the others. And I'm still learning, one of the benefits of this site. I have no concerns about my knowledge of TNA, or my ability to hang with IDR, you, or anyone else. IDR and I have debated and I think I typically have held my own quite nicely.

To this I say "bravo", because I love the idea. While I run the CL, KB and Sly post in 50% of my threads, and they often are the ying to my yang, so to speak. It makes me a better Moderator, and makes the section better. Just one question here: Do you have any examples of when you've done this successfully with IDR within TNA in the past? If not, why not?

No specific examples come to mind, although we have gone at it plenty of times in the past. God knows we have debated enough in then past.

Do you really believe that anyone who comes out of our party will be the best person for the job? To be honest, this comes off similarly to me voting Republican just because that's how I'm registered. So, if it's not you, do you truly believe that ANY representative would be the best representative for the party, or are you simply supporting party lines out of loyalty? (I mean no offense by this, please understand.)

It's a little of both actually. Supporting party lines out of loyalty will be paramount to the success of whichever candidate emerges from our party. I truly believe we have a half dozen excellent declared candidates, any of whom would be great moderators, not to mention another half dozen or so who would have been excellent candidates too, had they decided to run. Frankly my first choice would have been Mustang Sally, and I told her so. Had she decided to run, she would have had my vote, and I told her so.

Ok, fair enough, and I'm not going to argue most of this point. I'm in agreement that the spam sections absolutely do not need Moderation further then they already have. However, that still leaves the non-spam section to discuss. Why do you believe one non-spam section needs two moderators over leaving a non-spam section(say, M &T for example) with no moderation?

Spam sections do not need moderation, I'm firm on that point. All due respect to the other non-wrestling non-spam sections, but they simply do not experience the same degree of traffic as the non-spam wrestling ones. They are being run perfectly fine by existing staff, and this can continue. Meanwhile, the TNA section (a wrestling section on a wrestling forum) is expanding and as such, needs the staff to expand too.

If it comes down to it, are you able to drop the party allegiance if say, Killjoy says he's the better choice then you? How would you respond to that? What if Dagger, or MTM, or JW, or Ba-Bomb comes at you, saying they're better then you? What will you say to them to convince others that you're simply the best choice?

There should be no reason to drop part allegiance at this stage of the game, with any of these guys. If one of these guys decides to (erroneously) claim to be a better candidate than me, that's their prerogative, and I'm more than up to the task of dealing with them. And most of the arguments as to why I'm a better choice than them, I have already made, and I stand behind them.

There's a difference between throwing someone under the bus, and showing enough confidence in yourself that you're the best choice. Thoughts?

It's a balancing act, no doubt about it. Being aggressive enough to show that you are the better choice, which I think I have done, while still maintaining party solidarity, which I have also done. Without this party unity,this will all be for nothing, as if we don't remain a cohesive large unit, we will lose. The aggression from me will come after the primaries, if I am fortunate enough to get there.

For arguments sake, let's say this is you. You may not want division amongst your party, but you're going to need to poke holes into the other candidates. So, with that logic, i ask:

1. What makes you the better choice over CoCo?
2. Why would you be a better Moderator then Crock?

I'm sure you'll do this respectfully, but you're going to need to attack them, or at least their platforms. Start now.

I am a better choice than Coco for a number of reasons. He is petitioning for a section which does not need a moderator in the first place. He is doing so based solely upon popularity, which granted is a big part of these elections, but shouldn't be the only issue in determining the newest mod. He will abuse his power in my opinion, and will make suspect choices. Che has already talked about taking threads which were moved from non-spam to spam by guys like Nick, and throwing them back in his face. He has already shown friction between himself and other staff members. Simply put, if Coco were to take this thing seriously, he might be OK. But he won't and we all know it.

Crock is great, and so is Harthan. Frankly, they would be tougher to poke holes in, because they are both good.

 

[ABMorales787]

You mount long speeches constantly instead of going straight to the point. WZCW showed me that around here long posts equal better posts. The Bar Room showed me that you gotta be tough to go around. I've lived and breathed the TNA section here. And I go to the WWE section often enough to say I'm not biased. I used to do graphics and even did some Book This stuff. My point? I've been around. Some people have been saying your idea of a TNA fan and critic as mods being a good idea. I wanna ask though. Whats the point of that? That warrants more discussion? How so? Agree or disagree, people post. No matter the stance. It's a matter of knowing what buttons to push, not some convoluted yin yang dynamic. I think I proved that last week by keeping the section steady with topics every day.

Sorry brother, but I feel I'm more fit for the role than you. Nothing personal, but the idea is to keep the section functioning properly at all times. Playing devil advocate to IDR's loving fanboy isn't enough from where I stand.

 

[Coco]

Nick's endorsed me. I'm pretty sure he wants me to throw his garbage back in his face.

 

[klunderbunker]

As far as the time concerns go, the second primary is scheduled to run next week.

I'll have debate #1 probably the following Monday, the second later that week, and the election the second week of January.