Fed Changes - Revamping the Roster Pages

[Viola Moonlight]

As you guys know, we will be adding new Profile Pictures to the roster pages for practically everyone thanks to Red Skull and FunKay which will be adding some pizazz to those applications. However, that isn't the only thing that we may be doing to those pages:

Common Moves Setlist:​

Currently, we have restricted moves where new applicants and further character changes aren't allowed to use due to too many people listing them as their own regular moves. Some people are opposed to this and it has come to light to me that it is probably not the best solution as it makes us look like Nazi moderators, telling people what to do. So, I've come up with a solution:

Create a Common Moves Setlist​

Basically, this option still enforces that the notion that no-one can list a certain list of moves within their setlist so we won't have unoriginal move lists and allows people to get more creative. Plus, these certain moves will be commonly used throughout the fed, meaning that moves such as the "Dropkick" or the "Enzuigiri" can be done by everyone. Personally, I think this is the best option to have a best of both worlds solution.

As for practical application, we are going to need to create a CMS with a list of common moves that are known by everyone. Thus far, this is what I have:

• Clothesline
• Dropkick
• Enzuigiri
• Knife-Edge Chop
• Standard Suplex

We will also be including typical match writing moves such as comeback strikes, certain pinning combinations, restholds and toe kicks to set-up for moves. If you have any more suggestions, feel free to leave some below as well.

As mentioned before, this will make the moves for each person to be more unique and diverse, allowing for us to use these "common moves" for pivotal points in the match that require momentum shifts and such. Implementing these moves will mean that those who currently have them in their setlists are going to have to change them to something else. Some characters won't have to touch on much whilst others may have to do a whole character revamp concerning moves but hey, that's the nature of the beast. Speaking of which, this leads me to my next thing.

Picking Your Character's Wrestling Style​

When we get this CMS officially constructed and posted up along with the updated "Character Creation Banlist" (which is hidden for the time being), we're going to try and get people to follow a certain move set that belongs to that particular character. For example: Steven Kurtesy is known for his submissions, using strikes to wear down the opponent. He mainly targets the head area due to his association with being a psychologist. I've specifically created a moveset that for the most part, fits that description. This has given me a unique and diverse set of moves that make writing my character a bit easier to use concerning match psychology. Someone like Barbosa can be made to make things interesting concerning his gimmick as well.

We aren't looking for people to assign themselves as a submission specialist and pick only submissions but we are asking for people to get a gerenal idea of how their character would wrestler for when we ask people to change their moves to fit with the CMS... so it makes match writing for us a bit more interesting because match psychology and planning the match with some people's moves can be hard, not because they have all power moves but because they haven't got anything flowing for a consistent performance.

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td;lr - We are changing the restricted regular moves to commonly-used by everyone, meaning these moves must be changed should they appear on people's move lists. I'm asking on people's opinions on this as well as what types of moves you would consider to be "common knowledge." Once we get this list established, we are asking to keep to a theme for a wrestler to make the matches more interesting and not pick random moves that will remove flow and consistency when writing matches.

Comment below please.

 

[Beastmode 24]

I think you can add standard elbow drops and the bodyslam to the common moves list.

EDIT: When the list is finished, do you plan to PM the personnel that need to make the changes? Also, will the changes be implemented in a break between shows so there's time to revamp if needed?

 

[JGlass]

Saboteur doesn't know how to do a standard suplex. I think he used to do a snap suplex, but I'm pretty sure he forgot how to. He also doesn't drop elbows as he's afraid he won't be able to pick them back up.

I like the idea of a CMS, but it should more be for frame of reference than literal. I don't want Saboteur performing a standard suplex or DDT or any submission holds other than his sleeper with body scissors (which he never uses anyway), but I can understand if a more grappling oriented character would want his character to perform those moves but not dropkicks, knife edge chops, or enzugiris.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

That's probably a better description than what I listed, J. Like Saboteur, Kurtesy can't perform a suplex because lifting moves cannot be done by Kurtesy anyway. This is not in the full-form yet so when it comes time, I'll make the amendments.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

Krypto can't do any power moves whatsoever and no matter how injured he is he'll go to top rope for nearly every move because that's all he can do. Dude's like Jeff Hardy when it comes to that high risk stuff, no matter how many times he crashes and burns it's finally worth it when he hits his opponent head on.

 

[Miko]

Fucks sake, so much effort for me

 

[ABMorales787]

Certainly a brilliant move. Though it's obvious there's weight exceptions to those standard moves since reading that Manzo or Toyota Wasabi are doing Dropkicks and Enziguiri's can be a tad jarring. You could center that around weight classes. Guys over 270 will be prone to Big Boots, standing Legdrops and elbows on the corners while guys under 220 are prone to Headscissors and Suicide Dives.

 

[Remix]

So your solution to having a worthless banlist that nobody likes is to create another banlist. Your solution to certain moves being overused is to ban them... but still allow everyone to use them. Falk, that's not a solution.

And for the record, the banlist was worthless in its old form because it was arbitrary, widely ignored and completely unenforced. Not because it made you guys look like Nazi mods.

 

[ABMorales787]

So your solution to having a worthless banlist that nobody likes is to create another banlist. Your solution to certain moves being overused is to ban them... but still allow everyone to use them. Falk, that's not a solution.

And for the record, the banlist was worthless in its old form because it was arbitrary, widely ignored and completely unenforced. Not because it made you guys look like Nazi mods.

No, he's saying listing basic moves is pointless because they come with the territory of any wrestler. And yes, there should be a limit to the moves used since it can lead to repetitive movesets and finishers. I'm pretty sure there was a point where lots of characters had the Spear in their normal repertoire and the have been quite a number of Rock Bottom variants.

 

[Lee]

Yeah is it really that much a problem? I did my move list 5 years ago and now have to change it all for some reason I don't get. It also means that a lot of the matches will be very samey.

EDIT: Where's the red comet gone from Titus' move list?

 

[Remix]

No, he's saying listing basic moves is pointless because they come with the territory of any wrestler. And yes, there should be a limit to the moves used since it can lead to repetitive movesets and finishers. I'm pretty sure there was a point where lots of characters had the Spear in their normal repertoire and the have been quite a number of Rock Bottom variants.

And I'm saying that putting "spear" down on a list of moves that aren't allowed to be listed but can be used by everyone anyway doesn't solve anything. It just means that the spear can be used by everybody, rather than the unoriginal people who can't think of a less generic move to put down making the problem worse (unless of course, the writers stick to the 15 put down rather than worrying about the CMS, in which case it functions exactly like the current system. Which is shit.)

 

[Lee]

Also to add, it's a bit pointless. My finisher includes an ankle lock but hey the week my opponent no shows this is not used but instead a DDT is.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

I'm talking basic moves used in every wrestling contest or particular spot like a dropkick. However, you can use variants of these moves should they be unique like a springboard dropkick or if your character has the highest vertical leap, he can claim to have something called the highest vertical dropkick. Same thing with a clothesline - everyone uses it so why should it be listed but there are other variations that could be adapted such as a flying spinning clothesline or the sliding clothesline.

We're just encouraging more creativity with a small list of moves being wildly available for everyone that will only be used at the discretion of match writers should they need them - think of them as an extra set of tools: if you need to make a comeback, having clothesline available to everyone means that following a couple of shots, they can use a clothesline to knock the opponent down. Stuff like that.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

And to the point about the matches being the same - that's what this list was designed for: everyone will have their own unique 15 moves of doom with the addition of this CMS that can be used if needed. These moves will be used in special parts of the match such as momentum switches, transitioning from one spot to another, going to the outside, demonstrating a fast-paced contest with pins, adding restholds.

It gives us more depth with our writing should we need to resort to basic match psychology whilst allowing diversity between characters and their moves.

 

[Lee]

That makes this a lot more easier and actually makes sense.

 

[Remix]

I'm talking basic moves used in every wrestling contest or particular spot like a dropkick. However, you can use variants of these moves should they be unique like a springboard dropkick or if your character has the highest vertical leap, he can claim to have something called the highest vertical dropkick. Same thing with a clothesline - everyone uses it so why should it be listed but there are other variations that could be adapted such as a flying spinning clothesline or the sliding clothesline.

We're just encouraging more creativity with a small list of moves being wildly available for everyone that will only be used at the discretion of match writers should they need them - think of them as an extra set of tools: if you need to make a comeback, having clothesline available to everyone means that following a couple of shots, they can use a clothesline to knock the opponent down. Stuff like that.

Here's the thing though Falk, you're not encouraging creativity. You're rewarding laziness. You think that the people who are causing the enzuigiri to be overused are going to use the space to develop a logical moveset? If they were going to do that, don't you think they'd have done it the first time?

You're coming dangerously close to saying that common/simple moves can't be used to form a well thought out, creative movelist. Look at Wunderbar's original moveset, which included such gems as "wristlock", "armbar" and "stomps".

And to the point about the matches being the same - that's what this list was designed for: everyone will have their own unique 15 moves of doom with the addition of this CMS that can be used if needed. These moves will be used in special parts of the match such as momentum switches, transitioning from one spot to another, going to the outside, demonstrating a fast-paced contest with pins, adding restholds.

It gives us more depth with our writing should we need to resort to basic match psychology whilst allowing diversity between characters and their moves.

So, you're saying that if an RPer can't demonstrate the rudiments of psychology in their 15 moves, you're going to be supplying it for them via the CMS? Remind me again how this is supposed to encourage creativity.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

It's been seldom an issue until recently so there hasn't been a need for people to get creative with their moves. Everyone was focused on shaping their character so that its easier for themselves creatively and not worried about the moves as much. Now that this point has been raised and towards the whole community before anything arises, it can be a slow transition for people to get used to... I'm looking to have this implemented and completed 100% at the start of next year or post-Unscripted.

I might be going dangerously close but everyone is smart enough here to understand the differences on both sides. However, the moves you have listed such as wristlock aren't selected as much as the enzuigiri. We find it extremely boring to write enzuigiris so we are trying to phase them out as much as possible but still allowing usage when necessary. Although, something like stomps can be considered common but what is wrong with adding detail to your stomps such as you have done with Connor's new set? You have no problem there, what would the problem be with saying something like "Face Stomp (Driving the boot into the face)". Stomps are common but someone driving their boot in the opponents face isn't as much.

 

[Lee]

Titus aims for a technical style but not a submission style. Slowly working down his opponent through rest holds can allow for a power move (or ankle lock) to come out of nowhere. That being said Titus is a showman and is not afraid of jumping from the top rope.

 

[ABMorales787]

Here's the thing though Falk, you're not encouraging creativity. You're rewarding laziness. You think that the people who are causing the enzuigiri to be overused are going to use the space to develop a logical moveset? If they were going to do that, don't you think they'd have done it the first time?

You're coming dangerously close to saying that common/simple moves can't be used to form a well thought out, creative movelist. Look at Wunderbar's original moveset, which included such gems as "wristlock", "armbar" and "stomps".

That's not the case. What FalK is saying is that basic moves like the ones you mention will come naturally with the character's description meaning you can skip those and have room in your 15 moves for more creative ones. They don't have to just read "stomp" or "armbar". They can be a particular spot the wrestler performs. Like a Hip Toss transitioned into a Short-Arm Scissor or a Snapmare followed by a low Clothesline. It's an encouragement to make movesets that are more unique and give every character a unique feel.

So, you're saying that if an RPer can't demonstrate the rudiments of psychology in their 15 moves, you're going to be supplying it for them via the CMS? Remind me again how this is supposed to encourage creativity.

Making up your unique spots. You can write down "Orton style stomps" if you're so hell-bent on them and it comes off as something the other guys don't do.

 

[Remix]

It's been seldom an issue until recently so there hasn't been a need for people to get creative with their moves. Everyone was focused on shaping their character so that its easier for themselves creatively and not worried about the moves as much. Now that this point has been raised and towards the whole community before anything arises, it can be a slow transition for people to get used to... I'm looking to have this implemented and completed 100% at the start of next year or post-Unscripted.

Oh bollocks it hasn't, Falk. It's more like a seldom noticed/cared about issue. The only reason that ill thought out movesets seem like a recent thing is because nobody checked before. Go read the first post of the request a change thread, for an example of that. Or you could count the belly to belly suplexes on the movelists of the old timers (I looked at Celeste, Everest, Ricky and Big Dave. All but Dave have a belly to belly in there).

I might be going dangerously close but everyone is smart enough here to understand the differences on both sides. However, the moves you have listed such as wristlock aren't selected as much as the enzuigiri. We find it extremely boring to write enzuigiris so we are trying to phase them out as much as possible but still allowing usage when necessary. Although, something like stomps can be considered common but what is wrong with adding detail to your stomps such as you have done with Connor's new set? You have no problem there, what would the problem be with saying something like "Face Stomp (Driving the boot into the face)". Stomps are common but someone driving their boot in the opponents face isn't as much.

That's the thing though Falk. The problem isn't people using common moves in their movesets (even a fucking squash match can fit in wristlocks for fuck's sake). It's that people integrate common moves into their moveset without thinking about why they're there. They're there because the person filling in the form thinks that it's a cool move and therefore their wrestler should do it. There's no psychology in their uncreative, dime a dozen moveset. It's just a collection of moves.

Also, asking people to make their style match their moveset is backwards (at least to me). I find starting with the gameplan/style and then picking moves to fit that makes the moveset so much easier, and apparently easy to work with.

 

[Remix]

That's not the case. What FalK is saying is that basic moves like the ones you mention will come naturally with the character's description meaning you can skip those and have room in your 15 moves for more creative ones. They don't have to just read "stomp" or "armbar". They can be a particular spot the wrestler performs. Like a Hip Toss transitioned into a Short-Arm Scissor or a Snapmare followed by a low Clothesline. It's an encouragement to make movesets that are more unique and give every character a unique feel.

Here's the thing though KJ, a creative moveset doesn't need creative/innovotive/well described moves. It requires the person writing to to think logically and create a moveset that fits the character and is coherent (by which I mean fits how the character would wrestle if he was real). Wunderbar was an sadistic, logical sonofabitch. Therefore he'd attack the arm in preparation for the Kaizerlock and even when he isn't, still punishing his opponent.

If your WZCW wrestler's moveset is nothing but a bunch of cool moves, with no logic/psychology binding it together, he'd be regarded as a shitty wrestler in the real world.

 

[Thriller Ant]

Here's the thing though KJ, a creative moveset doesn't need creative/innovotive/well described moves. It requires the person writing to to think logically and create a moveset that fits the character and is coherent (by which I mean fits how the character would wrestle if he was real). Wunderbar was an sadistic, logical sonofabitch. Therefore he'd attack the arm in preparation for the Kaizerlock and even when he isn't, still punishing his opponent.

If your WZCW wrestler's moveset is nothing but a bunch of cool moves, with no logic/psychology binding it together, he'd be regarded as a shitty wrestler in the real world.

That's what the point of having the description of your character's wrestling style is. You pick the moveset, and the wrestling style is how to write the moves. If you can't see why this makes perfect sense, then you're beyond help. Then again, you'll probably leave again in a month, leaving this all moot.

 

[Lee]

Wow Thriller, just wow.

 

[Thriller Ant]

Wow Thriller, just wow.

Changed your mind from the laughing smiley?

 

[Lee]

Oh what I said before the laughing smiley was a lot more harsher.