Exposing The "Body Builder" Myth

[Enoch V2]

The major "poster boys" of the past few decades:

Hulk Hogan
Ultimate Worrior
Lex Lugar
Sting
Kevin Nash
John Cena
Goldberg
Batista
Randy Orton
Shawn Michaels
The Rock
Steve Austin
Triple H
Undertaker
Randy Savage
Bret Hart
Brock Lesner
Kurt Angle

All of these guys are very muscular. Yes, some are smaller than others, but they are certainly all big guys with little body fat.

The average size of wrestlers has shrunk since the 80s (obvious reasons why) but being big is still important to the WWE.

EDIT: Oh and they largely seem to be white.

 

[Zaahir3000]

It took Triple H a long time to get over. If anyone can remember when he started out as Hunter Hearst Hemsley. He had more of a tall lean physique ala CM Punk. It wasnt until he came back from his quad injury that he looked like the second coming of Big Poppa Pump.

 

[Depakote]

I think we need to define what we mean by "big guy" because some of you are naming smaller wrestlers and labeling them as big just because they arent flabby and out of shape. Every guy big and small in wrestling should have a good physique. Evan Bourne is ripped. Is he a big guy? No. When talking about big guys in pro wrestling, lets clarify that we're really talking about the larger than life body builders like the Ultimate Warrior, Batista, and yes even John Cena. Jerry Lawler said it best: "even his veins have veins." You can tell me that Cena worked very hard for that body all you want, but to the average person on the streets, he looks like someone who does steroids.

There's also an obvious contrast in styles. Brett Hart wasnt a midget but he also wasnt a bodybuilder in the pure sense of the word. He was a technical wrestler, whereas guys like Batista are all about power moves. The list of big men who can actually wrestle is much much smaller than the list of smaller men who can wrestle. Guys like Shawn Michaels couldnt ride the coattails of their physique like the Ultimate Warrior did.

Big men dont have to actually be able to wrestle to get TV time. Mason Ryan is a good example of this in recent times. There's a guy that was pulled up from developmental too soon and thrown into a major angle just because he had that look. That look takes less creativity to get over too. Its easy to sell "big". Big sells itself. Thats a problem unto itself because, no matter how good a guy like Evan Bourne is, he will always be one of the first guys they throw under the bus in a squash match with some new bigger guy who's spent more time in the weight room than in the ring.

 

[Dusty Roids]

It took Triple H a long time to get over. If anyone can remember when he started out as Hunter Hearst Hemsley. He had more of a tall lean physique ala CM Punk. It wasnt until he came back from his quad injury that he looked like the second coming of Big Poppa Pump.

Triple H was always a bodybuilder. Like many others, Warrior, Cena, Batista he started as a bodybuilder. But you're right when he started in WWF he looked more lean and taller. Imo in 2000 he had the best physique he ever had. After his mega roided up comeback in 2002 he pretty much lost alot of speed and agility. He almost never lost that bodyfat that came along with it.

 

[ramblinroy682]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the point to the whole argument is that looking like Batista gets you in the door with the WWE. If you look like that, they'll give you time in developmental, give you a shot, and then see if you have what it takes.

If you look like CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, or Evan Bourne, you better bust your ass on the indies make a name for yourself, and have some big time charisma to get over in WWE.

Let's face it, the Shawn Michaels we see today is probably 50lbs lighter than the one who won the World Title for the first time. Bret Hart was never a thin guy. He had muscles and was a thick dude.

Guys like Daniel Bryan are not walking in off the street with little experience to sign with WWE. Guys like Batista do. Even tough enough...I think most people would agree that Luke was the better performer but Andy Levine won. Because of Size?

I honestly think Vince has been looking for the next Hulk Hogan since Hulk left. Hogan was his homerun, the mega star. I think in Vince's mind, it takes a guy like that to be super over.

 

[jmh1971nyr]

Yeah but for every Jericho etc, there's 10X more Batista types! Your list above is because they can actually wrestle. Batista, Cena, etc can't wrestle but have a look. I mean if charisma and the crowd wanted to see them was important then Rick Rude, Curt Hennig, Owen Hart, Zak Ryder, etc.. should have been champs!

 

[mrhexum]

The wrestler Droz was supposedly given a job by the WWF because of his remarkable ability to puke at will. Legend has it that Vince McMahon actually took a bucket with him for his interview to get a live demo of his skills.

In the documentary "Beyond the Mat" this did pretty much happen with Droz. Vince just used a little trash can from the room for him to puke in, and hearing Vince call the action in his typical over-sell fashion while waiting for Droz to puke was hilarious. However, Droz wasn't just signed for his ability to barf. He was a former football player who had a unique look and personality.

As for my take on the bodybuilding "myth": Being a life long fan, the first thing I thought when I found out wrestling was "fake" was "Oh, that's why all these guys are so big and built up, to be able to absorb the pain of taking bumps". The bigger guys just visually make more sense. Do I personally care what they look like? Hell no. As long as they can entertain me, that's all I care about.

Like someone else mentioned, wrestling is supposed to be bigger than life. So, the big guys are easier to notice, while the smaller guys have to make their gestures as grand as possible so they can still come across to the fans in the nose bleeds.

Does Vince have a "thing" for big guys? He certainly does, and that "thing" is a fat wallet from years of people coming to see these superheroes come to life.

So, yes, the smaller guys do have to work harder to get noticed, but, it is in no way Vince's fault.

 

[EStreet]

Does Vince have a "thing" for big guys? He certainly does, and that "thing" is a fat wallet from years of people coming to see these superheroes come to life.

So, yes, the smaller guys do have to work harder to get noticed, but, it is in no way Vince's fault.

This is exactly why Punk is right in saying Vince (and HHH) is out of touch with what sells.

Superhero types sold great in the 80s (Hogan, Macho, Warrior)...real guys sold better in the 90s (Hart, HBK, Austin, Rock)...now, we are getting these cookie-cutter football/bodybuilder looking guys and look what has happened - WWE has fallen completely on its face in terms of ratings and buys and attendance.

Yes, there are economic circumstances that play into this, and the lack of competition has hurt the product...BUT, we are being forced to take in these cookie-cutter guys and its simply not interesting and therefore not moving the needle. They don't work and havent in years. Actually, with the exception of the superhero types in the 1980s, wrestling hasnt been about that type of person for years. If wrestling needs one type of person, that person needs to be someone who works to get over and works to sell matches.

 

[XXJJ]

Their is an entertainment value to what the WWE does. Wrestling wouldn't be the same if they didn't have giants or bodybuilders. They want some larger than life personalities. Evolution just wouldn't have looked right if they did not have Batista in the bodyguard role.

Their has been plenty of smaller guys that have been successful, and not all of them are great wrestlers. Jeff Hardy doesn't have the traditional WWE look and he is not a great wrestler. He got over being a spot monkey. The only thing the stopped him was his personal issues.

Dont know why people keep bringing up Mason Ryan. What exactly has he done? People are not mentioning someone like Sin Cara. Look at how the WWE is pushing him. Not to mention Daniel Bryan has the MITB briefcase.

Orton was never a bodybuilder. Yes guys like Triple H, Cena came from a bodybuilding background. But you cant say that they dont have talent and haven't worked hard to get where they are today.

 

[Depakote]

Sure, there is a place for bodybuilders. Nobody's saying that there isnt. We bring up guys like Mason Ryan because they suck in the ring, have no charisma, and still get pushed just because of their look. Nobody's pushing the small guy just because he has the small guy look.

Sin Cara got signed and pushed because he might as well be the patron saint of Mexican wrestling. What Hulk Hogan was to America, Sin Cara is to Mexico. Thats what got him signed; thats whats getting him pushed. WWE needs a new Rey Mysterio to keep that latino demographic because Rey is close to retirement.

There are bodybuilders who can work. There's small guys who can't work at all. But like I said, bodybuilders are more likely to get pushed just because of their look. Any in-ring skill is considered a bonus. The disconnect here is the assumption that the look sells more than what goes on in the ring. Pure pro wrestling fans are fans of the in-ring craft just as much and we cringe every time Michael Cole refers to a hip toss as an arm drag and vice versa.

 

[rge2010]

I completely agree with you here, but how is Randy Orton not a a "Big Guy"? He is 6 foot 5 and 245lbs! How is that not a big guy

I mean't as in build. Randy Orton hardly has a 'body builder' look.

To the Macho Man fan, Mason Ryan has done the indie circuit here in the UK, he isn't just a gym rat they have pulled off the street. And he hasn't really even had a push has he? He got put in a weak Nexus which was lead ironically by CM Punk and thats all he has done.

I also find it ironic Punk was vocal about the firings of Luke Gallows and Chris Masters. Seems his bitching has caught up with him there. Both big guys but talentless but Punk thinks they should have being kept?!

Maybe Punk wants to take a leaf out of the Miz's book. Miz has bust his ass (and still is) more than anyone. He earned his Title and he aint a big guy either. He is the future face of the company aswell...McMahon is mean;t to be really high on him.

 

[Ytoojae]

You have an outstanding point there. I do agree with you wholeheartedly, but you do need to explain why you feel that way just a tad more strongly. I'm not entirely sure what basis you make those claims at. It could be a number of things, but a little bit of an explanation would be fantastic.

Thanks.

 

[AngryCenaFan]

Is this guy for real?

WWE gives contracts to bodybuilders, who have never set foot in the ring before, yet you get all these guys on the indys who scratch and claw, who cannot get a look.

Bodybuilders are given more opportunities in that company, they push them down our throats until they either get over, or WWE realizes we could care less!

 

[Scorpion Eye]

First of all, Cena and Hogan weren't given the titles so they could have a chance to be the big stars, they were given them because they were the top stars. Then after they were proven to be huge money makers, they were kept in those spots so they would keep making money. Why would they move them out of the way for someone else who hasn't been proven? Why would they risk losing money on just a hope that the next guy could draw just as much? It makes no sense.

So what you are saying is that Hulk Hogan was the biggest name in the company before he won the title and having it didn't help his status at all. Funny cuz I remember Andre the Giant being Vince's MAIN ATTRACTION for awhile. Hence the whole reason for Wrestlemania III, Andre passed the torch to Hogan.

Secondly, Shawn spent plenty of time in the main event before his surgery and the ratings were shit until Austin blew up. You don't push a guy to the top and keep him there if it's not working. Also, Shawn was a hopeless drug addict. Even if he stayed around, he wouldn't have been in the title picture because he would have been dead.

Umm...ok I was talking about when HBK came back there genius. You know when he had great matches with HHH, Undertaker, Flair, Y2J. But to you Austin apparently made himself huge, without the help of Bret Hart and The New Hart Foundation and DX(which included HBK). And just so i make my self clear, I'm not saying HBK was ripped off at all and that he deserved more title reigns. He didn't need them. Just pointing out how even the HOFer took a backseat to Cena.

And what happened? Ratings dropped dramatically, buyrates were shit. I don't think he was pushed so incessantly because he was a body builder type though, he was Vince's pet and he had nothing to worry about since there was no competition. He learned his lesson though.

Ratings dropped when HHH was champion? I remember him, Rock, Austin, Undertaker, and Foley help create the Attittude Era. Also remember HHH being one of the most loved heels during that era. Again it wasn't just Austin or the Rock, others contributed too and if you subtract any of them from that era, everything suffers. You can't replace any of them. I guess the McMahon-Helmsley era was a complete flop then huh?

No idea what any of this is about.

Not surprised. I was simply comparing the guys on rge2010's list to Cena's run in the main event. Orton and Edge are the two that really come close to comparing. Others like Jericho and Foley didn't need to be in main event to be relevant.

This idea that wrestling booking has to be all ethical and shit is astounding. WWE is a business. Businesses are out to make money. If a bigger guys is going to make more money as the champion, he deserves the belt. I don't care how hard Punk has fought up through the ranks, if he doesn't draw he doesn't deserve to hold the title for a long time. That goes for anyone, regardless of size.

Wow, your just dumb. IN no way shape or form was I claiming that wrestling booking has to be ethical. My whole point was trying to see this argument through CM PUNK's, THE CHARACTER, EYES. Which is really the whole point of this thread since rge2010 starts off by saying:

"So Punk brought up the 'the bodybuilder' myth

 

[Dagger Dias]

It isn't a myth. The bigger guys are more likely to receive a push. This is still an issue. Now, smaller guys DO get pushed. If they didn't then I wouldn't be watching anymore. The bigger guys are often boring. Guys like Lesnar or Khali who get handed huge pushes on a silver platter without doing a single thing to earn them. "That guy is more entertaining, but you are huge so you get to be world champion". That is no myth. It is indeed still an issue. Guys like Punk get pushed, but the issue is that they have to work harder to earn pushes when big boring guys get pushes they never deserved. It's not an issue of "only bodybuilders get pushed". It's an issue of making EVERYONE earn their pushes equally regardless of their size. It should be about skill instead because otherwise there is a double standard.

 

[Mikael941]

You all seem to be missing the point, he is not referring to an actual bodybuilder , CM PUNK is referring to a Juice Head, the foleys, christians, Jericho, jeff Hardys are day to day champs, meaning just a few days maybe a month style champs, I think you all call them "transitional champs". Now look at Cena, HHH, Original HBK, Edge, RVD, Savage, Angle, Undertaker from WCW to WWF, Psycho Sid, Keving Nash, Ultimate Warrior, British Bulldog, even Eddie Guerrero, just look at their "before WWE Pics". As far as you exposing the Myth, your wrong, Cena and HHH have had a mompoly on the Title for Years, look at the Main Event Matchs, PPV's and promotions.
Compare them to a organization that could not afford "Enhancers" and masking agents, like ECW. Look at Austin in WCW, then ECW then during his WWE days and watch his build go from ok to bigger and zero body fat. this happens while on the road 300 plus days a year....cmon fella wake up...

 

[Kizzani]

I loved how you twisted CM Punks words to benefit your comments. Don't change his words his words were "BODY BUILDER type" don't add big guys into the mix, Kane is a BIG guy and hasn't really gotten a TRUE push until recently. You can twist the words to make CM Flunk looking like a moron look more intelligent but his words are spoken and dumb. Now next week when he tries the same complaints and mentions BIG guys. thne you can have you little "OOOO I told you so moment". But for now stick to Body Builder type.
@deardro you say "Lesner, Goldberg, big Show, batista, cena, HHH, hogan, nash, hall, JBL, nathan jones, matt morgan, khali, jackson, barret, demolition, LOD, undertaker, kane, krugan, yokozuno,vicious,sheamus,and so on" You looking at all title CM punk is talking about world titles. now look at the list again Khali ( a week) Nash ( never) Nahtan ( never) Morgan ( never) Demolition ( minus crush they weere 6'2 and 6'3, 1 and 2 inches taller than punk and way fatter. making this one void) LOD ( see previous quote about Demolistion) Kurgan ( never) here are some more "Big guys" You left out. Ahmed Johnson, Simmons, Godfather, Twin Towers, Issac Yankem ( not til he became Kane), Crush, Adam Bomb, I could go one but I have proved my point please don't make me mention wrestlers that are under punks height that still did a great job.
You can twist and turn punks words all you want the fact is his comments can only hold water like a napkin.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

I'm sure CM Punk was referring to Batista (HHH's buddy), Sheamus (HHH's buddy) and John Cena (HHH's buddy)- all these men were / are bodybuilders first and wrestlers second, but won multiple championships. To put it into perspective, Sheamus debuted and won the WWE title within months, Punk was buried the entire time but having the best matches on most nights.

Also it was a kayfabe shot at HHH, who was a bodybuilder first and wrestler second.