Exile me from the IWC

[FromTheSouth]

There are sixty seven threads (approximately) about what the IWC thinks about everything, and I disagree with most of them. I don't think I am fit to be a member of the Internet Wrestling Community anymore. I'd throw away my card, but I don't think I was ever really a card carrying member.

First of all, I still, and will always mark out for Kane. I know that he doesn't do a shooting star press or a flying tiger space drop, but I'm OK with that. The man moves better than men that weight 60 pounds less than him. He is never injured, works well with everyone, works well in every position on the card, and is capable of carrying super heavyweights in matches. He made Mark Henry look serviceable as a wrestler in ECW, and then months later was the glue that held Money in the Bank together. He looks like a legit tough guy, emphasizes his athleticism, but knows his limits and never tries to go too far. He used power moves to make a point, but has remarkable agility for a man his size, and uses it to set up his offense, or transition to different "chapters" of the story that he tells very well in the ring.

I do not care about cruiserweight wrestling. I find the matches semi entertaining. Don't get me wrong. I just don't think it should be featured. In WCW, the cruisers came out, first match, and got the crowd excited for the rest of the night. I would love this. Put Rey vs. Evan Bourne vs Jamie Noble vs. Jimmy Wang Yang vs. Brian Kendrick, or any combination thereof on first. Give them 12 minutes, and let them do some gymnastics. That's great. Those epileptic monkeys can do amazing things. The problem is the match has no continuity and looks like a gymnastics training session with five or six people doing some flips in the corners without every really putting it together. The matches require so much set up. For Evan Blande to do his Shooting Star Press, the guy usually has to roll over six or seven feet to get into position. In all honesty, if I have to see someone stumble halfway across the ring to get in position for a 619, I may very well vomit on myself. I understand that the little guys get a pop, but I have never taken them seriously. That being said, I am a Jeff Hardy fan, because his story is compelling. He can do everyone of the moves Rey does, but he doesn't make me want to change the channel because he is a compelling character, and has been for a decade.

I think HBK is overrated. Once again, don't get me wrong here. I respect him very much. I think his recent devotion to putting people over and passing the torch is commendable. I think he has had his share of great matches. But the talk of his being Mr. Wrestlemania is stupid. The Undertaker is Mr. Wrestlemania. HBK is overrated on the mic. Not stumbling over your words is one thing, but he doesn't say anything or consequence. Blah Blah, I'm the showstopper. Bla Blah, you're going to beat my ass for 30 minutes, then I'm going to kick you and win. Blah Blah. HHH carried him on the mic for DX's entire run. He is good enough on the mic, but nothing seriously great. He has a smile that lights up a room, but a voice that puts it to sleep. Seriously, he is a smarmy Edge-type heel that gets cheered for his body of work and dedication to the business. He is no long edgy, and really only was edgy for like six months in 1997. While everyone wants to talk about his great matches, look at who they were with, Stone Cold, Bret Hart, Undertaker, Stone Cold. Is it coincidence that the guys HBK had his best matches with were the guys who were regarded as the best workers of their time? HBK has illustrated an unmatched capacity to be carried and let his charisma get him by.

I do not hate Batista, John Cena, Hulk Hogan, Warrior, Scott Steiner, or any of the other body builder types. Maybe it's because I have my own muscles unlike most of the IWC. I think that these guys have a very important role AT THE TOP of whatever show they're on. Batista throws people to the ground because that's what people with 4% body fat that weigh 300 pounds do. John Cena and Hulk Hogan pander to kids because they look like comic book characters and kids read comic books. Sorry that their body mass keep them from flying off the top rope and doing two flips and a no handed cartwheel onto their opponent. They do what makes sense for them to do, and they do it well, and they are the stars of the show because this is what regular fans, like me, want to see. Sorry guys, if you want to see Evan Blande go over these guys and become the star he deserves to be, but if he won, wouldn't those of you in the IWC bitch about how bad the writing was to have that small of a guy go over and there would be twenty posts about how Cena should have lost the belt to Edge first, and then Edge to Jeff, Jeff to Jericho, and then Jericho to Bourne. This way it would make kayfabe sense.

I hate spoilers. I do not have a compulsive need to know what happened on SD! Tuesday night at 11:01. I like to watch the show. I don't need to read the spoilers to see if it looks like a good show. I watch the show because I like wrestling. Also, in this paragraph I would like to note that I usually watch DVR delayed shows because instead of sitting her jacking off to the opening theme song, I am out, with girls, and booze.

I know nothing about Japanese wrestling. If you watch every Puroseau match made every week, good for you. I wish I had that much dedication. I, honestly, care more about the story than the match. Weird to see typed on an internet forum? Well, I know it is a TV show, and I like the TV show aspects over the sports aspects. That is not to say I don't love a great match, but part of what makes a match great to me is the build up. It is very rare that a match with no build up captures my attention. Jeff Hardy vs. HBK (funny here) from Raw in January of '08 is one of these matches. It was just great. Bad matches do more to separate me from a guy's fan club more than good ones do endear me. CM Punk came into the WWE with all the internet support in the world, but I saw him as sloppy. It took me quite some time to get over this impression, and part of what did it was during and after his title run, I enjoyed how much of a smart ass he was. He is funny. His dialogue made me more interested in his matches, and now I am quite impressed.

I still mark out. Sorry guys, I am not cynical enough to be an IWC member. When CM Punk cashed in, I screeched like a girl. When Hornswoggle was announced as Vince's son, I laughed. I hoop and holler everytime Ricky Steamboat is on TV. When Edge went crazy on Mick Foley as part of Mick's last WWE moment, I stared at the TV, not critiquing the beatdown, but appreciating Edge's moment of aggression. I like swerves.

I think Santino is an ass clown. Sometimes, he makes me laugh. Most of the time he reminds me that I need to piss. I am tired of his act.

I hate the brandsplit. I know, I know, the midcard will get buried. And this is bad why? Less suicide dives per hour? Fuck it. The guys on the top of the card sell the tickets, the merchandise, and the PPV's. End the brandsplit, make the top guys who aren't involved in the title hunt into the midcard. Then take the midcarders that are worth a shit, (Miz, Morrison, Kofi) and make them jerk the curtain. Then take Santino, Jamie Noble, Kendrick, Wang, and Mysterio, and job them out to the worthwhile guys on the roster. If we end the split, there will be less Chavo? Oh no, what ever will we do?

I am a Miz fan. You can see how hard the guy has worked to improve. He has to know how down on him people are, and yet, all he does is get better every week, give top five promos, and generate more heel heat than Priceless could ever dream of. Give me a fucking break, I have a problem with the people who hate on him. If everyone gave as much effort as he did, the show would be better off. He actually makes creative look like they have the ability to write wrestling shows. Then Rey Mysterio kills that thought.

JR is not God on the mic. He doesn't know what half the moves are called. Michael Cole does. JR marks out for his favorites. That is my job. His is to call the fucking match, and tell us when the heels are being heelish. Matt Stryker is the best announcer they have. He knows the moves, the history, and respects the fans.

In conclusion, kick me out of the IWC. This fictional wonderland of cynicism smoothies, hate on a stick, and stuffed egos makes me sick. I will continue to post here, and maybe my contrarian views will spice up all the Batista hate fests. Maybe I can contribute the insight of the average fan. I am not, never was, and never want to be, a smark. I am a fan. I happen to be an informed fan, but a fan nonetheless. So next time Matt Hardy turns, and you all say you saw it coming, I will be sitting there slack jawed, wondering how he could do that to his own brother.

Have a slobberknocking day.

 

[klunderbunker]

About 90% of what you said goes for me too. I have yet to see a member of the IWC that knows jack shit about wrestling. Tonight I had to educate people that said Big Show vs. Festus would make a good feud. The concept of storytelling or psychology or any kind of sense is lost on them and that scares me.

FTS, I'm going to assume you're at least in your twenties, as am I and the people i think most similarly to on here, Norcal, Shocky and IC. We love old school, and we love it because it was better than what you have today. Today's wrestling is all about keeping you entertained with flashy things that keep you from realizing how much youre intelligence is being insulted. Those things are allowed to occur because of people in things like the IWC that insist they're the greatest things that have ever graced a wrestling ring. I'm reminded of a scene from the filme The American President. The characters are debating why the voters are listening to someone that clearly has nothing behind what he's saying. His aide says that when people have no leadership it's like they're in a desert chasing a mirage and when they realize there's no water they drink the sand. The President says they don't drink the sand because they have to. Tehy drink it because they don't know the difference.

The IWC insists that their way of thinking is best because they are sick of what they're watching so they've come up with little things to blame it on. The problem is that it's not the things that aren't being done that's the problem. The problem is them. They're so fed up with wrestling insulting their intelligence and treating them like infants that they've decided they know what is right and they cling to it. There is nothing wrong with having a big star put in front of you and gasping at how brightly it shines. The IWC though has decided that instead of respecting what is put before them, they would rather complain about what's wrong with it. In the real world, those kinds of people are called assholes.

All that matters anymore is being cool by dissenting. Somewhere along the line that became the new norm though. All that matters is looking cool, which is now impossible, because you're damned if you do and damned if you don't now. I could care less about what's considered cool in wrestling. I know what I like and I know what I don't like. When I watch a match or a show, I don't need to have a list of who I should boo and who I should cheer. People can whine and complain all they'd like, but at the end of the day one person's opinion matters: Vincent Kennedy McMahon's. You can talk about how great and mighty TNA is and how it's different, but tonight's "main event' was an ex-WWE guy beating up a cardboard cutout of a fictional character. Wait, that's still cool right? Raw may have been bad, but it was better than that. The IWC has forgotten what it means to be a fan, and sadly enough they'll never figure it out again.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

There are sixty seven threads (approximately) about what the IWC thinks about everything, and I disagree with most of them. I don't think I am fit to be a member of the Internet Wrestling Community anymore. I'd throw away my card, but I don't think I was ever really a card carrying member.

I cant even remember the reason for which I first logged onto this site. I lie. I was looking for information on a new WWE video game. No bullshit.

First of all, I still, and will always mark out for Kane. I know that he doesn't do a shooting star press or a flying tiger space drop, but I'm OK with that. The man moves better than men that weight 60 pounds less than him. He is never injured, works well with everyone, works well in every position on the card, and is capable of carrying super heavyweights in matches. He made Mark Henry look serviceable as a wrestler in ECW, and then months later was the glue that held Money in the Bank together. He looks like a legit tough guy, emphasizes his athleticism, but knows his limits and never tries to go too far. He used power moves to make a point, but has remarkable agility for a man his size, and uses it to set up his offense, or transition to different "chapters" of the story that he tells very well in the ring.

Kane is awesome. Absolutely one of the best they have, and one of the ABSOLUTE best live. Such a consumate professional.

I, in comparison will always mark out for Triple H. I give ZERO consideration to "teh back stages politx". Cant see why that makes one iota of difference. Its like hating a movie character becuase the actor who potrays them is a fucker. its mindless, and you obviously watch the programming for ALL of the wrong reasons if you have that in your mind when "Time to play the game" hits on the loudspeakers.

I do not care about cruiserweight wrestling. I find the matches semi entertaining. Don't get me wrong. I just don't think it should be featured. In WCW, the cruisers came out, first match, and got the crowd excited for the rest of the night. I would love this. Put Rey vs. Evan Bourne vs Jamie Noble vs. Jimmy Wang Yang vs. Brian Kendrick, or any combination thereof on first. Give them 12 minutes, and let them do some gymnastics. That's great. Those epileptic monkeys can do amazing things. The problem is the match has no continuity and looks like a gymnastics training session with five or six people doing some flips in the corners without every really putting it together. The matches require so much set up. For Evan Blande to do his Shooting Star Press, the guy usually has to roll over six or seven feet to get into position. In all honesty, if I have to see someone stumble halfway across the ring to get in position for a 619, I may very well vomit on myself. I understand that the little guys get a pop, but I have never taken them seriously. That being said, I am a Jeff Hardy fan, because his story is compelling. He can do everyone of the moves Rey does, but he doesn't make me want to change the channel because he is a compelling character, and has been for a decade.

Yea, cruisers are shit for the most part. I mean, I would love to see a deep, competitve division like WCW used to have, but the outcries for it are silly.

Why?

guess who had a cruiser division. WCW. Guess who didnt (really). WWE. guess which company still exists?

and yea, Jeff Harvey is beast. incredibly sloppy, and pretty mindless in the ring. but he sells like none other, and the crowd fucking LOVES THAT DUDE. Probably the most over guy in the entire company. Belive it.

I think HBK is overrated. Once again, don't get me wrong here. I respect him very much. I think his recent devotion to putting people over and passing the torch is commendable. I think he has had his share of great matches. But the talk of his being Mr. Wrestlemania is stupid. The Undertaker is Mr. Wrestlemania. HBK is overrated on the mic. Not stumbling over your words is one thing, but he doesn't say anything or consequence. Blah Blah, I'm the showstopper. Bla Blah, you're going to beat my ass for 30 minutes, then I'm going to kick you and win. Blah Blah. HHH carried him on the mic for DX's entire run. He is good enough on the mic, but nothing seriously great. He has a smile that lights up a room, but a voice that puts it to sleep. Seriously, he is a smarmy Edge-type heel that gets cheered for his body of work and dedication to the business. He is no long edgy, and really only was edgy for like six months in 1997. While everyone wants to talk about his great matches, look at who they were with, Stone Cold, Bret Hart, Undertaker, Stone Cold. Is it coincidence that the guys HBK had his best matches with were the guys who were regarded as the best workers of their time? HBK has illustrated an unmatched capacity to be carried and let his charisma get him by.

Ive been saying for quite some time that I dont at all get HBK. His character from the new era age not only wasnt interesting, it was downright fucking annoying. I dont see how one single hetero sexual male EVER cheered for this clown. You know what else is annoying? Everyone flying into an olympic sprint to rush and call every single thing he does great. It really isnt. Underwelming is what I would call most of it.

I do not hate Batista, John Cena, Hulk Hogan, Warrior, Scott Steiner, or any of the other body builder types. Maybe it's because I have my own muscles unlike most of the IWC. I think that these guys have a very important role AT THE TOP of whatever show they're on. Batista throws people to the ground because that's what people with 4% body fat that weigh 300 pounds do. John Cena and Hulk Hogan pander to kids because they look like comic book characters and kids read comic books. Sorry that their body mass keep them from flying off the top rope and doing two flips and a no handed cartwheel onto their opponent. They do what makes sense for them to do, and they do it well, and they are the stars of the show because this is what regular fans, like me, want to see. Sorry guys, if you want to see Evan Blande go over these guys and become the star he deserves to be, but if he won, wouldn't those of you in the IWC bitch about how bad the writing was to have that small of a guy go over and there would be twenty posts about how Cena should have lost the belt to Edge first, and then Edge to Jeff, Jeff to Jericho, and then Jericho to Bourne. This way it would make kayfabe sense.

everyone you just named is awesome. Well, not Steiner he is fucking atrocious. I digress...

anyone who says Hogan and Cena are crap becuase they pander to kids is an absolute fucking idiot...

UM HELLO ITS FUCKING FAKE FIGHTING!!!

that, inherently, is aimed at kids. Stop taking yourself so fucking seriously. Cena, Batista, and Hogan, are ALL guys who are in the aspect of great storytelling in its purest form. The larger than life hero going over the odds to defeat evil.

I hate spoilers. I do not have a compulsive need to know what happened on SD! Tuesday night at 11:01. I like to watch the show. I don't need to read the spoilers to see if it looks like a good show. I watch the show because I like wrestling. Also, in this paragraph I would like to note that I usually watch DVR delayed shows because instead of sitting her jacking off to the opening theme song, I am out, with girls, and booze.

I hate spoilers. I motherfucking HATE spoilers. To me, this completely destroys the entire damn fucking purpose of watching the sport AT ALL. I also despise when people absolutely HAVE to start threads about shit that happens on a show that hasnt happened yet. is it SERIOUSLY fucking necessary? are you that desperate to act like your smart, and "in the know" ? What the fuck does it fucking matter? will you loose interest before the show airs? are you planning on killing yourself before the show airs? I just do NOT understand it.

Simularly to South, I miss RAW every week, becuase I am having sex with my girlfriend. Like, a real life girl, not a spank thread in the bar room, or looking at fucking diva photo shoots.

and yet, ye verily, I weekly bug the shit out of KB for him to send me a link to RAW, so I can watch it in the wee hours after breaking that girls back. Why?

Becuase I fucking love wrestling. regardless of the warnings I receive of how shit the show is, regardless of how much sleep ive had, or what hour it may be, regardless if the fucking link freezes and lags. I still want to, and love watching. I avoid the results and discussion of the show at ALL costs

I know nothing about Japanese wrestling. If you watch every Puroseau match made every week, good for you. I wish I had that much dedication. I, honestly, care more about the story than the match. Weird to see typed on an internet forum? Well, I know it is a TV show, and I like the TV show aspects over the sports aspects. That is not to say I don't love a great match, but part of what makes a match great to me is the build up. It is very rare that a match with no build up captures my attention. Jeff Hardy vs. HBK (funny here) from Raw in January of '08 is one of these matches. It was just great. Bad matches do more to separate me from a guy's fan club more than good ones do endear me. CM Punk came into the WWE with all the internet support in the world, but I saw him as sloppy. It took me quite some time to get over this impression, and part of what did it was during and after his title run, I enjoyed how much of a smart ass he was. He is funny. His dialogue made me more interested in his matches, and now I am quite impressed.

I didnt even know what Puroseau meant before Tdigs told me. fact.

and if anything, I have anger towards the IWC guys. One, becuase I want to see the characters from their beginning, not hearing "who they really are" or "what they used to be". I dont give a shit what Jake Hager did. I love me some fuckin Jack Swagger.

I still mark out. Sorry guys, I am not cynical enough to be an IWC member. When CM Punk cashed in, I screeched like a girl. When Hornswoggle was announced as Vince's son, I laughed. I hoop and holler everytime Ricky Steamboat is on TV. When Edge went crazy on Mick Foley as part of Mick's last WWE moment, I stared at the TV, not critiquing the beatdown, but appreciating Edge's moment of aggression. I like swerves.

I mark out. Why in the FUCK would you watch if you dont? When CM Punk cashed that fucker in, I was like "he did WHAT?" I sounded like fuckin Al Micheals.

I was outloaud cheering for Steamboat. it was the one and olnly time during WM25 that I did so. Edge going crazy on folye was fucking incredible. People being so nit picky on that kind of thing makes me wonder how they can even live life. What miserable little pricks they must be.

I think Santino is an ass clown. Sometimes, he makes me laugh. Most of the time he reminds me that I need to piss. I am tired of his act.

he is an ass clown, and quite aware of it, which is what is so great. I like him. I think its an aquired taste though. Comedy is like that.

I hate the brandsplit. I know, I know, the midcard will get buried. And this is bad why? Less suicide dives per hour? Fuck it. The guys on the top of the card sell the tickets, the merchandise, and the PPV's. End the brandsplit, make the top guys who aren't involved in the title hunt into the midcard. Then take the midcarders that are worth a shit, (Miz, Morrison, Kofi) and make them jerk the curtain. Then take Santino, Jamie Noble, Kendrick, Wang, and Mysterio, and job them out to the worthwhile guys on the roster. If we end the split, there will be less Chavo? Oh no, what ever will we do?

Well, I love the brandsplit, so go fuck yourself. Ya gotta make new stars man, they need development time. Dont worry, once they buy TNA, there will be plenty of stackedness to the roster, I dont think you have a problem with the brandsplit as much as with the way they use the TV time. I wouldnt argue with you there. Less Chavo Guerrero is always a good idea.

I am a Miz fan. You can see how hard the guy has worked to improve. He has to know how down on him people are, and yet, all he does is get better every week, give top five promos, and generate more heel heat than Priceless could ever dream of. Give me a fucking break, I have a problem with the people who hate on him. If everyone gave as much effort as he did, the show would be better off. He actually makes creative look like they have the ability to write wrestling shows. Then Rey Mysterio kills that thought.

I have been singing the praises of The Miz since the LAST draft. I say the move came a year late. Regardless, good for him. Im too damn good at this shit to not be employed by that company. Seriously.

JR is not God on the mic. He doesn't know what half the moves are called. Michael Cole does. JR marks out for his favorites. That is my job. His is to call the fucking match, and tell us when the heels are being heelish. Matt Stryker is the best announcer they have. He knows the moves, the history, and respects the fans.

yea, JR has slipped a LOT. It saddens me so much to hear what he used to be, when I watch the old Attitude Era matches.

that being said, Striker is a bit overrated. He some some pretty wildly absurd shit sometimes. Not that he is wrong, be he just seems like he tries WAY too hard sometimes. I offer up the comment he made about Christian pulling down Swaggers straps at JDay. That mightve been the dumbest shit I have ever heard on a wrestling show.

In conclusion, kick me out of the IWC. This fictional wonderland of cynicism smoothies, hate on a stick, and stuffed egos makes me sick. I will continue to post here, and maybe my contrarian views will spice up all the Batista hate fests. Maybe I can contribute the insight of the average fan. I am not, never was, and never want to be, a smark. I am a fan. I happen to be an informed fan, but a fan nonetheless. So next time Matt Hardy turns, and you all say you saw it coming, I will be sitting there slack jawed, wondering how he could do that to his own brother.

I mean becuase really. Being negative isnt very fun. Neither is striving to ruin your own medium of entertainment. Ill never, ever understand it.

Ill continue to love every fucking moment of it. Ill continue to get super pumped up when im working out, and Hulk Hogans theme music blares on the speakers of my weight room. Ill continue to mark out when John Cena overcomes the odds. Ill continue to salute him back at live shows. Ill continue to flex my muscles right along with Batista during HIS live entrances. Ill continue to get a smorgasboard of snacks and get all giddy excited for every PPV. If Hulk Hogan ever came through the curtain at a live event I was at, I would probably cry.

becuase im a fucking fan, and I absolutely love it.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

It's a shame the thread is here and not in another part of the forum that would get more publicity, because this is epic. This is an eye opening thread for a lot of people. The majority of people in here started watching wrestling during or AFTER the Attitude Era. They're not marks anymore. At one time, when wrestling was a new thing to them, they were marks. They wanted to hear the glass break, the countdown, and the beer trucks as much as anyone, but when all of a sudden, things change and momentum changes...then people start bringing out their "Smark Card" and try to bust some knowledge on us about WHY and WHO'S sucking.

Here's some perspective on wrestling. The stories change. The wrestlers change. Hell, the businesses change. But one thing's constant. It's still WRESTLING. Guys like Cena and Batista may not have the most entertaining match in the world together, but you won't find two people that's harder working and more dedicated to the business than those two. Cena had a fractured vertebrae, a torn bicep muscle and even has knee problems, but you see the man, come out, amp up the fans, and put on the best show he knows how. And I give Batista shit because he's laborious in the ring these days, but it's due to the wear and tear of his body. He's had hamstring surgery and I'm almost positive he came back a good 4 months early from that injury, just to wrestle. It's not the money, the pussy, or the entertainment. It's because they love the business. They love wrestling. Almost EVERY wrestler was a fan before he became one. It's simply in the blood of some people.

Another thing I hate is the constant bashing of Triple H. The man lives Pro Wrestling. He's not a construction worker, a coal miner, or a doctor. He was born to wrestle. Triple H is as passionate as anyone has ever been about wrestling. The man married the promoter's daughter. That says a whole lot about the obsession HHH carries with him. He worked his way up the hard way, with NO help to get to where he is. By the time he yoked up with Steph, he was already WWE World Champion and the bigger star in the spectrum of Austin and Rock. He came through the job squad of WCW, eventually was given a mini run with Steven Regal...then that failed and the WCW released him. In the WWF, Vince saw a way to market the guy as a snarly, arrogant jerk ass. And he was over. Heel personified. He beat Foley's ass for the IC title, then went through to become WWE Champion. The man worked at everything he has. He tore a Quad muscle TWICE! And is still active. I don't know ANY athlete in any sport that's dedicated that kind of time to rehab and returning to his job.

So my two cents is that the IWC community is slowly ruining wrestling. The reason the WWE and WCW were so much more popular was because the hidden gems we have easy access to on a daily basis were so hard to come by. To get dirt sheet bullshit you see on the internetz back in 1995? You'd have to dial a 1-900 number that cost out the ass. Trust me. I've had my ass busted due to the hotlines. I'll finish with this. I still watch Raw, despite my distaste to the current content storylines that the WWE throws at us. Yet for some reason, I ask my job to give me Monday's off. I'm off Friday, Saturday, and Monday. Why? To watch Monday Night Raw. I've watched Raw on and off for the better part of 16 years. I don't that many people that are dedicated to shows like the Simpsons or MASH or long running sitcoms like the people are dedicated to RAW.

Wrestling will get better. There will be competition again. Just don't nit pick anything apart and act like you're an 'insider' because you know some shit backstage that you read on the Wrestling Observer. I would quit the IWC...but I'm not a member. I'm a wrestling fan. Nice to meet you.

 

[FromTheSouth]

See, Klunder, NorCal, I think this is may be a product of age. I am 27, and I remember seeing the Barber Shop incident. I remember when Virgil slapped the Million Dollar Man.

I agree with you KB in that wrestling insults our intelligence sometimes. I also love The American President, so good job there. I also don't care if a smarky type comes on here and tears me apart for my HBK-apathy or my Batista love. Fuck em. I watch because it's a TV show, and one that I can go to and be as much of a clown as I want. I can't go to a Home Improvement taping and tell Patricia Richardson she's a fat bitch like I can Vickie.

Which leads me to NorCal. Right fucking on. First off, Al Michaels reference to I believe the Antonio Freeman catch, good reference. Seconly, fuck yeah. I like Cena. I love when he overcomes the odds. I marked out at the seven hundred pound FU. All we really disagree with is the brand split. One of these days, I'll go minute by minute on a week of TV and show you how many guys can be used if you just put the Main Event Guys on tag matches and six man tags.

But I think that both of you guys and I remember a better time in wrestling. As a matter of fact, two better times. We still watch because there are certain holdovers from both of those times. There is still a bit of the edginess from Attitude, and still a bit of the cheese from the 80's. All the elements are there for greatness, it's just a matter of finding the right mix and building off of it. I will always be a fan. WWE has it's good and it's bad, but there is more good than bad, and I will forever be free to choose for myself what that is.

Fuck the IWC
Mothafucka, I'm free!!!

 

[pyrusane]

I've been a fan of wrestling since around 1986. I was 11 years old when I started watching, and my first wrestling hero was Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat, before his WM3 match with Randy Savage. As a kid, I cheered for Steamboat and Hogan, I booed guys like Dibiasi and Heenan. I marked out when Strike Force won the tag team titles because it was the first time I had ever seen a title change on regular TV.

Then, I grew up. I got older, and my expectations changed. I was 14 when I realized I didn't like Hogan anymore, because I didn't like the way he wrestled. I was watching a tape of a PPV with a friend who had never watched wrestling before in her life, and was explaining to her why Hogan was "the man." She couldn't understand it, and pointed out that all he was doing was yelling a lot. I laughed at her. She asked if he was the "bad guy," I said no, he's the good guy. She asked me why he had just cheated to win his match, and I had no answer. It opened my eyes a little, and this was in a time when I still fully believed that it was all real. I was a "mark."

I'm 33 years old now. I still watch wrestling every week, as much as I can. I expect to be entertained. Often I read about the shows before I get a chance to actually watch them, and I see on here how this match was crap or that run-in was predictable, then I watch the show. Sometimes I agree with what I read, but often I am still entertained.

I hate Goldberg, because Goldberg hates me. I was a fan, right up until the moment he decided to sit at home and collect a paycheck and say screw the fans instead of accepting a buyout to leave Time Warner and go to WWE. That is the real reason he didn't show up until two years after the buyout, and that is from the man himself, in an interview he did with PWI in 2002.

I dislike Hogan because he is an egomaniac. I own his book, just reread it about three weeks ago, and was amazed at how much he puts the success of wrestling on his own shoulders. Yes, Hogan was a huge part of it, and yes, wrestling might not be where it is today without him. This is fact. But to read his story, he is the only act in wrestling to have ever drawn money.

I like Shawn Michaels. I don't consider him the best ever, I think he spent the first half of his career sabotaging everyone and everything around him, including himself. I think he has spent the second half of his career trying to atone for that. I could care less. He entertains me, he puts on a good show, and I like him. I consider him Mr. Wrestlemania, not because he always has the best match on the card (although he usually does) but because he always brings his best to the table. His best may not always be at the level of everyone else, but he leaves nothing behind for that show.

I used to love the cruiserweights. I was entertained, I liked the flippy stuff, and there was a time when they could tell a really good story in the midst of it all. Once upon a time the 619 wasn't a finisher, it was a taunt, something Rey did when his opponent was outside the ring to make them think he was going to attack. He did it one time in WWE, and hit someone in the process, and it became a finisher. Wonderful. Now its boring.

I like John Cena. I like his promos, I like his intensity, I like his dedication. I think his matches are sometimes subpar, but that has more to do with the superman finishes than with his ability. I think he actually wrestles quite well, but I think he needs to work on how he tells the story in the ring. Kids love it though, so maybe I'm wrong. And, to be quite honest, I liked 12 Rounds.

I think Ric Flair should stay retired. Not to honor HBK, not to honor the send-off he received, but because he is no longer the Nature Boy, he's a tired old man that I don't want to see shirtless ever again. I grew up 40 miles from Charlotte, some of my earliest memories are of Ric Fair, even before I was a fan of wrestling. The old man on RAW right now is not the Ric Flair I want to remember.

My point is this. Every single person on here has an opinion. We all have a point of view, we all have things we like or dislike. Some people seem to simply like telling other people how wrong they are. Ok, fine. I've been guilty of that myself. But at the end of the day, the only person whose opinion matters to me is my own, and it should be the same for you as well. I love the fact that their are people on here that disagree with my opinions, because that gives me something to debate about. But in the end, I don't expect to sway anyone over or change their mind. I come to these forums because i enjoy the discussion, I enjoy the debate, and I enjoy seeing all of the different points of view.

FTS, you absolutely belong here, because your views and opinions are just as valid and important as everyone else's. If they don't mirror the majority, be grateful, and be happy, because that means that you are an individual, and not a mindless sheep following along with the rest of the flock.

I don't care if you lick windows, take the special bus, or occasionally pee on yourself...you hang in there sunshine, you're friggin special!

 

[JGlass]

This is a really good read, probably the best post I've read here as far as I can remember.

I think what really impresses me about this post is that I think it's everything a wrestling fan should aim to be. I really wish I could be more like you as a wrestling fan, and I like to think in most ways I am. I do like Kane, and I get really excited when I see him run a muck on whatever show. He does do great work, and I'll always appreciate him for what he does. Unfortunately, the IWC dude in me is always wondering why they're burying him or putting him over or whatever. I don't hate on all the big guys (I'm not a fan of Batista all the time, but even he has his moments) yet I sometimes I feel like they are actually being shoved down my throat too much. I like CM Punk, he used to be one of my favorites! Then I started looking at what people on wrestling forums had to say about him, and I let my opinion be swayed.

This post has really inspired me to be a better fan. I guarantee I'm not going to agree with everything here (I love JR), but I definitely want to be more like you as a fan. I want to watch a match without thinking, "Oh they're just doing this to put _____ over." I forgot that when I decided to stop just reading these boards and join, I didn't join to be all smarky, I joined to make predictions about storylines and talk about why I like Jeff Hardy. I don't know if you ever remember, but you called me something like a feeble mark on a thread about Joey Style's politics (in retrospect I mostly deserved it). I don't want to analyze the WWE down to it's web-content editor's politics effects on what happens anymore, or whatever the hell Styles does with his life now. I don't want to over-analyze why anything is happening in the WWE, I just want to enjoy the show like Vince McMahon intended.

I sincerely think everyone would benefit from reading this thread, I at least know I learned a little bit about how to be a better fan.

 

[The Dewbliners]

So, I'm roughly the same age as you guys, being 25 and all, and couldn't agree more. Well, except the Japan thing. I love Japanese wrestling, but not to be smart. Just to get my Muta fix.

I'm not a smark, and I'm not a fan. I'm a MARK, plain and simple! I still look at the product the same way I did 20+ years ago, with suspended disbelief. For two hours every Tuesday early morning, I watch Raw, and follow it as if it were real. I did the same for Buffy, too. I never cared for backstage news: "Who's jumping to TNA?" Answer is I don't care, I wanna be surprised!

I'll admit, some cruisers catch my attention, like Alex Shelley or Kendrick (the latter only because he reminds me of my boyhood hero Brian Pillman). I can be a sucker for flashy moves, just as much as mat wrestling. I don't discriminate, as long as a match hangs together.

I just now started being able to see the Miz, what with work, but from what I've seen, he fuckin' OWNS!!!! I'll leave it at that.

I've got no problems with Batista, Cena, or any of the other bigger guys per se, but I do have problems with the way they'll get jobbed out to cruisers. Hell, I've seen Cena in OVW, and if they'd let him, he could blow any preconcieved notion of "the five Movez of doom" out of the water. There's no reason why Batista should be losing to Rey, but I don't write for WWE, so it's not my call.

I'll end my piece by saying, I'm Dewey Anderson, and I'm not a member of IWC, I'm a wrestling mark!

 

[Shadowmancer]

I agree in part with what is said but I also disagree with what is said. One of the main things that I disagree with is the talking about Puroresu. Sometimes watching a match just to see that match is always a good point. But there is also the element of it being a good idea that we can say that they are portrayed as being a professional fighters and they are paid to fight where the main motivation is with the money they are getting. That is an element of the old school method of booking, why were they fighting in the first place, why were they faces. Heels had a basic motivation for why they were heels. Now they have a heels for no real reason than they feel entitled.

I will criticize when it is required. A good example would be with the booking of the main event of Wrestlemania, while I understand why they had Triple H standing tall, I could see another longer term plan that could have resulted in better profits further down the line. I will criticize because what I want is for the best to happen for the WWE in the long run.

I find certain wrestlers boring because they have nothing there for me to care about, and if there is it seems like it is forced. Most seem bland and have no actual character to get behind. Cena is not the best, won't be until he can engage people on a level where everyone can care about him. Hogan made people care about him. HBK made people care about him, while he may have made people hate him, he was still making people care whether he won or lost. If you care about Cena winning or losing that is fine, I just find him bland and boring. Batista as one of the hardest working wrestlers, what? I understand why people of his size are needed however he is not that good. I have no problem with people liking wrestlers but I have problems with certain wrestlers because of numerous things whether they are heels or faces, I ignore them as much as can.

I want there to be competition, so I want Indy promotions to succeed, because if they do that means more places for Wrestlers to work and get paid. I want the industry to clean up because wrestlers dieing from things such as overdoses and suicides. I can live with wrestlers dieing within crashes and other similar deaths by accidents. While it may be a tragedy it is tolerable as an occurance that happens. I see part of the vehemence for cruiserweights coming from a misplaced sense of wanting the industry to be steroid free. I want the industry to be steroid free but I also know that Steroids aren't always given away by the size of the wrestler.

I find Cornette and Storm to both talk a lot of sense about the business, while I can see why people think that Lance Storm is always negative, it is because he wants what is best for the business to happen. I think that is where a large amount of the negativity within the IWC comes from initially, however people love to complain there is much within the way that humans act. Negative optimists are conundrums but seem to make up a large majority of the IWC.

I could go further into it, but I want to see a change in the attitude of the IWC, rather than people going that they want to hand in their IWC card, but use the forums in a positive way to express their love for Pro Wrestling. Respect of Pro Wrestling as a business as well as being a sport. It is not exactly a true sport but it isn't entertainment either.

 

[Hero]

Agree with some, disagree with some.

There are sixty seven threads (approximately) about what the IWC thinks about everything, and I disagree with most of them. I don't think I am fit to be a member of the Internet Wrestling Community anymore. I'd throw away my card, but I don't think I was ever really a card carrying member.

First of all, I still, and will always mark out for Kane. I know that he doesn't do a shooting star press or a flying tiger space drop, but I'm OK with that. The man moves better than men that weight 60 pounds less than him. He is never injured, works well with everyone, works well in every position on the card, and is capable of carrying super heavyweights in matches. He made Mark Henry look serviceable as a wrestler in ECW, and then months later was the glue that held Money in the Bank together. He looks like a legit tough guy, emphasizes his athleticism, but knows his limits and never tries to go too far. He used power moves to make a point, but has remarkable agility for a man his size, and uses it to set up his offense, or transition to different "chapters" of the story that he tells very well in the ring.

I don't like Kane personally, because I just find him to be pretty boring overall. With that said, I'd say he has the second best facial expressions in the WWE behind Randy Orton (and thus tells a story well in a match), and he can cut a pretty good promo. While I don't necessarily like the guy by any measure, I do respect parts of his game which I think are excellent. Hopefully he adds another thing to the list of things I respect him for by retiring when he says he will, instead of so many wrestlers who just can't do it.

I do not care about cruiserweight wrestling. I find the matches semi entertaining. Don't get me wrong. I just don't think it should be featured. In WCW, the cruisers came out, first match, and got the crowd excited for the rest of the night. I would love this. Put Rey vs. Evan Bourne vs Jamie Noble vs. Jimmy Wang Yang vs. Brian Kendrick, or any combination thereof on first. Give them 12 minutes, and let them do some gymnastics. That's great. Those epileptic monkeys can do amazing things. The problem is the match has no continuity and looks like a gymnastics training session with five or six people doing some flips in the corners without every really putting it together. The matches require so much set up. For Evan Blande to do his Shooting Star Press, the guy usually has to roll over six or seven feet to get into position. In all honesty, if I have to see someone stumble halfway across the ring to get in position for a 619, I may very well vomit on myself. I understand that the little guys get a pop, but I have never taken them seriously. That being said, I am a Jeff Hardy fan, because his story is compelling. He can do everyone of the moves Rey does, but he doesn't make me want to change the channel because he is a compelling character, and has been for a decade.

Meh, the cruiserweights are hit and miss. I find guys like Kendrick to be awesome, and I rspect Bourne's athleticism, though his matches do at times get to the stage where I can't believe them. The 619 is a move I've hated for the longest time because it just looks so damn ridiculous. It's things like this that do tend to frustrate me with cruiserweights.

I'm also a big Hardy mark, btw.

I think HBK is overrated. Once again, don't get me wrong here. I respect him very much. I think his recent devotion to putting people over and passing the torch is commendable. I think he has had his share of great matches. But the talk of his being Mr. Wrestlemania is stupid. The Undertaker is Mr. Wrestlemania. HBK is overrated on the mic. Not stumbling over your words is one thing, but he doesn't say anything or consequence. Blah Blah, I'm the showstopper. Bla Blah, you're going to beat my ass for 30 minutes, then I'm going to kick you and win. Blah Blah. HHH carried him on the mic for DX's entire run. He is good enough on the mic, but nothing seriously great. He has a smile that lights up a room, but a voice that puts it to sleep. Seriously, he is a smarmy Edge-type heel that gets cheered for his body of work and dedication to the business. He is no long edgy, and really only was edgy for like six months in 1997. While everyone wants to talk about his great matches, look at who they were with, Stone Cold, Bret Hart, Undertaker, Stone Cold. Is it coincidence that the guys HBK had his best matches with were the guys who were regarded as the best workers of their time? HBK has illustrated an unmatched capacity to be carried and let his charisma get him by.

I think you sell Michaels a little short, as he has dragged good matches out of notably bland wrestlers in the last few years like Kennedy and Chris Masters. However, I do agree that he is overrated, much like asnother man you mentioned in 'Taker. Shoot me if you must, but I would give their WM match *** at best. It just seemed to be ridculous no-selling, mixed with a lack of psychology to me. Michaels escapes from the Tombstone, only to be put back into the position and not escape the second time, despite 'Taker holding him up in the exact same way? Seems ridculous to me. It's not like thge Tombstone is a sudden move that caught him off guard. I also find it stupid that he kicked out from a move which realistically, should break someone's enck, but whatever.

I do not hate Batista, John Cena, Hulk Hogan, Warrior, Scott Steiner, or any of the other body builder types. Maybe it's because I have my own muscles unlike most of the IWC. I think that these guys have a very important role AT THE TOP of whatever show they're on. Batista throws people to the ground because that's what people with 4% body fat that weigh 300 pounds do. John Cena and Hulk Hogan pander to kids because they look like comic book characters and kids read comic books. Sorry that their body mass keep them from flying off the top rope and doing two flips and a no handed cartwheel onto their opponent. They do what makes sense for them to do, and they do it well, and they are the stars of the show because this is what regular fans, like me, want to see. Sorry guys, if you want to see Evan Blande go over these guys and become the star he deserves to be, but if he won, wouldn't those of you in the IWC bitch about how bad the writing was to have that small of a guy go over and there would be twenty posts about how Cena should have lost the belt to Edge first, and then Edge to Jeff, Jeff to Jericho, and then Jericho to Bourne. This way it would make kayfabe sense.

While I'm not a big fan at all of Batista's in-ring work, agreed. You have to remember that when an internet darling in Jericho got the belt, RAW ratings fell rather dramatically. Would that have happened had Batista held the belt the whole time Jericho did? I doubt it.

I hate spoilers. I do not have a compulsive need to know what happened on SD! Tuesday night at 11:01. I like to watch the show. I don't need to read the spoilers to see if it looks like a good show. I watch the show because I like wrestling. Also, in this paragraph I would like to note that I usually watch DVR delayed shows because instead of sitting her jacking off to the opening theme song, I am out, with girls, and booze.

You have no idea how pissed I get when a show is spoiled for me.

I know nothing about Japanese wrestling. If you watch every Puroseau match made every week, good for you. I wish I had that much dedication. I, honestly, care more about the story than the match. Weird to see typed on an internet forum? Well, I know it is a TV show, and I like the TV show aspects over the sports aspects. That is not to say I don't love a great match, but part of what makes a match great to me is the build up. It is very rare that a match with no build up captures my attention. Jeff Hardy vs. HBK (funny here) from Raw in January of '08 is one of these matches. It was just great. Bad matches do more to separate me from a guy's fan club more than good ones do endear me. CM Punk came into the WWE with all the internet support in the world, but I saw him as sloppy. It took me quite some time to get over this impression, and part of what did it was during and after his title run, I enjoyed how much of a smart ass he was. He is funny. His dialogue made me more interested in his matches, and now I am quite impressed.

I don't think even a quarter of the IWC follows Japanese wrestling. Look at thgis forum for instance - a lot more people post about WWE than they do about Japanese wrestling. I like Japanese wrestling, and I love to watch KENTA, or Dragon Gate if I just want to watch some nonsensical high-flying, however, I myself don't follow it to the point where I download everything I can (not that I could since my net is shit).

Half of the pople who claim to watch Japense wrestling in the IWC seems to be attempting to impress people by saying they do anyway. It seems like a lie to make them e-cool, and quite often, it comes unstuck when they show an extreme lack of knowledge about what it is exactly that they're talking about.

I still mark out. Sorry guys, I am not cynical enough to be an IWC member. When CM Punk cashed in, I screeched like a girl. When Hornswoggle was announced as Vince's son, I laughed. I hoop and holler everytime Ricky Steamboat is on TV. When Edge went crazy on Mick Foley as part of Mick's last WWE moment, I stared at the TV, not critiquing the beatdown, but appreciating Edge's moment of aggression. I like swerves.

I wouldn't see the point in watching wrestling if I didn't mark out.

I think Santino is an ass clown. Sometimes, he makes me laugh. Most of the time he reminds me that I need to piss. I am tired of his act.

NorCal pretty much summed up my thoughts himself. I feel no need to delve any depper into this.

I hate the brandsplit. I know, I know, the midcard will get buried. And this is bad why? Less suicide dives per hour? Fuck it. The guys on the top of the card sell the tickets, the merchandise, and the PPV's. End the brandsplit, make the top guys who aren't involved in the title hunt into the midcard. Then take the midcarders that are worth a shit, (Miz, Morrison, Kofi) and make them jerk the curtain. Then take Santino, Jamie Noble, Kendrick, Wang, and Mysterio, and job them out to the worthwhile guys on the roster. If we end the split, there will be less Chavo? Oh no, what ever will we do?

Not a big fan of it, though I think it helps for WWE to see exactly who will improve and at what rate. Without it, I doubt Morrison would have improved as dramatically as he has since being brought up. He used to be boring at best, but now, he's one of my favourites.

I am a Miz fan. You can see how hard the guy has worked to improve. He has to know how down on him people are, and yet, all he does is get better every week, give top five promos, and generate more heel heat than Priceless could ever dream of. Give me a fucking break, I have a problem with the people who hate on him. If everyone gave as much effort as he did, the show would be better off. He actually makes creative look like they have the ability to write wrestling shows. Then Rey Mysterio kills that thought.

He and Morrison bolted as a tag team. They both improved out of sight.

JR is not God on the mic. He doesn't know what half the moves are called. Michael Cole does. JR marks out for his favorites. That is my job. His is to call the fucking match, and tell us when the heels are being heelish. Matt Stryker is the best announcer they have. He knows the moves, the history, and respects the fans.

I think this is what most of the IWC thinks, actually.

In conclusion, kick me out of the IWC. This fictional wonderland of cynicism smoothies, hate on a stick, and stuffed egos makes me sick. I will continue to post here, and maybe my contrarian views will spice up all the Batista hate fests. Maybe I can contribute the insight of the average fan. I am not, never was, and never want to be, a smark. I am a fan. I happen to be an informed fan, but a fan nonetheless. So next time Matt Hardy turns, and you all say you saw it coming, I will be sitting there slack jawed, wondering how he could do that to his own brother.

Have a slobberknocking day.

I believe that you have a few more characteristics of the average IWC fan than you believe. Just because you enjoy wrestling doesn't mean you're not part of the IWC. The members who try to be cynics are just douches trying to look cool anyway.

 

[Razor]

There are sixty seven threads (approximately) about what the IWC thinks about everything, and I disagree with most of them. I don't think I am fit to be a member of the Internet Wrestling Community anymore. I'd throw away my card, but I don't think I was ever really a card carrying member.

There's a card?! Damn. I must have missed mine when i registered three days ago.

First of all, I still, and will always mark out for Kane. I know that he doesn't do a shooting star press or a flying tiger space drop, but I'm OK with that. The man moves better than men that weight 60 pounds less than him. He is never injured, works well with everyone, works well in every position on the card, and is capable of carrying super heavyweights in matches. He made Mark Henry look serviceable as a wrestler in ECW, and then months later was the glue that held Money in the Bank together. He looks like a legit tough guy, emphasizes his athleticism, but knows his limits and never tries to go too far. He used power moves to make a point, but has remarkable agility for a man his size, and uses it to set up his offense, or transition to different "chapters" of the story that he tells very well in the ring.

I like Kane as well. I've always seen him as a bad ass. Even when he's this old, I can see the kind of work he puts into the ring. He carried ECW for awhile, and made Mark Henry the legitimate Heel challenger for the title he is today. I'd much rather have him in the ring than Orton. Damn I hate Orton. And not a "I hate his sneaky, heelish ways" hate. The "I don't know why he's on my TV" hate. Is that another strike against me?

I mark out for Kane everytime I see the fire shoot from the ring. I also mark for Cena and Jeff Hardy. I'm a 19 year old male who attends college. But i guess since I mark for Cena/Jeff Hardy I'm suddenly either a 15 year old girl or a 10 year old child. Damn. I was so close to 21.

I do not care about cruiserweight wrestling. I find the matches semi entertaining. Don't get me wrong. I just don't think it should be featured. In WCW, the cruisers came out, first match, and got the crowd excited for the rest of the night. I would love this. Put Rey vs. Evan Bourne vs Jamie Noble vs. Jimmy Wang Yang vs. Brian Kendrick, or any combination thereof on first. Give them 12 minutes, and let them do some gymnastics. That's great. Those epileptic monkeys can do amazing things. The problem is the match has no continuity and looks like a gymnastics training session with five or six people doing some flips in the corners without every really putting it together. The matches require so much set up. For Evan Blande to do his Shooting Star Press, the guy usually has to roll over six or seven feet to get into position. In all honesty, if I have to see someone stumble halfway across the ring to get in position for a 619, I may very well vomit on myself. I understand that the little guys get a pop, but I have never taken them seriously. That being said, I am a Jeff Hardy fan, because his story is compelling. He can do everyone of the moves Rey does, but he doesn't make me want to change the channel because he is a compelling character, and has been for a decade.

I'm rather indifferent to the cruiserweights myself. I know some people like to see them, and I know some people only want to see them. But i got the love for the heavyweights. Not everyone needs to be doing flips and insane bumps. Evan Bourne, Rey Mysterio, and Jeff Hardy do it because they can. Batista jumping from the top rope would look like the most ******ed thing I've ever seen. And I've seen Hornswoggle wrestle/Santino do a skit. Though, if Batista were to jump from the top rope everyone would probably think it was a great swerve.

Matches aren't suddenly great because a dude can do a 360 Inverted Shooting Star Press. The story my friends, the story. And I find myself entertained by cruiserweights most of the time. But I can live without them, as opposed to the IWC, as you call them.

I think HBK is overrated. Once again, don't get me wrong here. I respect him very much. I think his recent devotion to putting people over and passing the torch is commendable. I think he has had his share of great matches. But the talk of his being Mr. Wrestlemania is stupid. The Undertaker is Mr. Wrestlemania. HBK is overrated on the mic. Not stumbling over your words is one thing, but he doesn't say anything or consequence. Blah Blah, I'm the showstopper. Bla Blah, you're going to beat my ass for 30 minutes, then I'm going to kick you and win. Blah Blah. HHH carried him on the mic for DX's entire run. He is good enough on the mic, but nothing seriously great. He has a smile that lights up a room, but a voice that puts it to sleep. Seriously, he is a smarmy Edge-type heel that gets cheered for his body of work and dedication to the business. He is no long edgy, and really only was edgy for like six months in 1997. While everyone wants to talk about his great matches, look at who they were with, Stone Cold, Bret Hart, Undertaker, Stone Cold. Is it coincidence that the guys HBK had his best matches with were the guys who were regarded as the best workers of their time? HBK has illustrated an unmatched capacity to be carried and let his charisma get him by.

I think HBK is costing off of his past accomplishments. As are Triple H and Undertaker, honestly. They are great accomplishments, don't get me wrong. And they still entertain me most of the time. But you can tell when HBK is half-assing it. And that sorta thing pisses me off, because there are tons of people backstage who would give anything for half of his spot/the pop he gets from the crowd. But no. He half-asses most of his matches until he can be bothered to give me some actual work.

I do not hate Batista, John Cena, Hulk Hogan, Warrior, Scott Steiner, or any of the other body builder types. Maybe it's because I have my own muscles unlike most of the IWC. I think that these guys have a very important role AT THE TOP of whatever show they're on. Batista throws people to the ground because that's what people with 4% body fat that weigh 300 pounds do. John Cena and Hulk Hogan pander to kids because they look like comic book characters and kids read comic books. Sorry that their body mass keep them from flying off the top rope and doing two flips and a no handed cartwheel onto their opponent. They do what makes sense for them to do, and they do it well, and they are the stars of the show because this is what regular fans, like me, want to see. Sorry guys, if you want to see Evan Blande go over these guys and become the star he deserves to be, but if he won, wouldn't those of you in the IWC bitch about how bad the writing was to have that small of a guy go over and there would be twenty posts about how Cena should have lost the belt to Edge first, and then Edge to Jeff, Jeff to Jericho, and then Jericho to Bourne. This way it would make kayfabe sense.

I don't hate Batista as much as I'm not entertained by him. Dunno why. Cena draws me in every match he has. But Batista just doesn't do the trick. Though I still respect him. Check the "Who cares about Batista" thread. I may have been a little ambiguous with my wording. Mainly I say that I don't like the dude, but apparently a lot of the crowd does. And as long as he can do that, he deserves to be on my tv screen. I don't want him there, but as long as he gets the pop he deserves it.

I also get creeped out by the sheer militaristic attitudes some people bring to pushing younger wrestlers. I mean, it's all good to to be a MVP fan, a Hardy fan, and Bourne fan. But to say Bourne deserves a main event push now is simply foolhardy. He's not ready. That'd be like me saying Swagger needs a Raw main-event push now. No, he doesn't. He needs another year on ECW to solidify his character. People need to understand that their favorite wrestlers can't be in the main event if they're not over with the crowd. The crowd will eat them up and spit them back out. That's why mid-carders go through years of build. They need it.

..And I'm guilty of the "This storyline doesn't make sense!" line. But come on. Sometimes it drives me crazy. It's only when I'm on here though. Most of the time when I'm actually watching the product I can suspend belief and mark out like I'm 5 years old. Unless Orton is on my screen. He just pisses me off, honestly.

I hate spoilers. I do not have a compulsive need to know what happened on SD! Tuesday night at 11:01. I like to watch the show. I don't need to read the spoilers to see if it looks like a good show. I watch the show because I like wrestling. Also, in this paragraph I would like to note that I usually watch DVR delayed shows because instead of sitting her jacking off to the opening theme song, I am out, with girls, and booze.

Honestly? I read the spoilers if I can be bothered. But most of the time I just wait, or I read the spoilers if I know I can't make the showtime. I never read the spoilers if I'm going to watch the show though. I can't really mark out for Jeff Hardy winning the Fatal-Four Way if I knew he was going to beforehand. Horrible, they are.

I know nothing about Japanese wrestling. If you watch every Puroseau match made every week, good for you. I wish I had that much dedication. I, honestly, care more about the story than the match. Weird to see typed on an internet forum? Well, I know it is a TV show, and I like the TV show aspects over the sports aspects. That is not to say I don't love a great match, but part of what makes a match great to me is the build up. It is very rare that a match with no build up captures my attention. Jeff Hardy vs. HBK (funny here) from Raw in January of '08 is one of these matches. It was just great. Bad matches do more to separate me from a guy's fan club more than good ones do endear me. CM Punk came into the WWE with all the internet support in the world, but I saw him as sloppy. It took me quite some time to get over this impression, and part of what did it was during and after his title run, I enjoyed how much of a smart ass he was. He is funny. His dialogue made me more interested in his matches, and now I am quite impressed.

Japanese wrestling? I know The Great Muta! Sorry. I love the story more than the matches usually, as long as the wrestlers can keep me entertained for the build. But for wrestlers like Orton, whom I find shit on the mic, all I have to stay entertained is the ring work. And oh damn, I happen to find Orton's matches mostly incredibly boring. His Batista/Orton match wasn't bad at all when I went back and rewatched it. But his recent matches bar that one? One word: Ugh.

I think Santino is an ass clown. Sometimes, he makes me laugh. Most of the time he reminds me that I need to piss. I am tired of his act.

I hate the brandsplit. I know, I know, the midcard will get buried. And this is bad why? Less suicide dives per hour? Fuck it. The guys on the top of the card sell the tickets, the merchandise, and the PPV's. End the brandsplit, make the top guys who aren't involved in the title hunt into the midcard. Then take the midcarders that are worth a shit, (Miz, Morrison, Kofi) and make them jerk the curtain. Then take Santino, Jamie Noble, Kendrick, Wang, and Mysterio, and job them out to the worthwhile guys on the roster. If we end the split, there will be less Chavo? Oh no, what ever will we do?

I'll do these together. I hate Santino. He's a shit comedy wrestler. Alright, he sometimes gets a chuckle out of me. But every other time he's on my tv I want to beat him. And don't give me the "But his indy/FCW work!" shit. I don't care what he's done before in a few matches. I care what he's putting on my screen, and my god. It's utter retchedness. ..but he gets the pop. So he deserves to stay there. But that doesn't mean I can't hate the character to all hell.

I'm rather indifferent to the brandsplit. Though I like more than I hate it. It gives a lot more wrestlers an opportunity. If it was just one show, there'd be the same, static main event. And not nearly as many wrestlers would get air time on only one show. Honestly....not a lot of them deserve it. But I enjoy it.

I am a Miz fan. You can see how hard the guy has worked to improve. He has to know how down on him people are, and yet, all he does is get better every week, give top five promos, and generate more heel heat than Priceless could ever dream of. Give me a fucking break, I have a problem with the people who hate on him. If everyone gave as much effort as he did, the show would be better off. He actually makes creative look like they have the ability to write wrestling shows. Then Rey Mysterio kills that thought.

JR is not God on the mic. He doesn't know what half the moves are called. Michael Cole does. JR marks out for his favorites. That is my job. His is to call the fucking match, and tell us when the heels are being heelish. Matt Stryker is the best announcer they have. He knows the moves, the history, and respects the fans.

I like the Miz. He's got that vibe about him, that he's really glad to be where he is. Even though he's a heel, you can tell he appreciates it. And he isn't bad at all. Better than Morrison. Damn better than Morrison.

I've always respected JR because of his seniority and the fact that he knows the business inside and out. But does that mean he's the best? No. No he's not. Everyone blew a nut when they found out JR was leaving Raw. "But he's the voice of Raw?!?!" Raw is doing just fine with Michael Cole and Lawler. And I agree with Stryker. I had missed a ECW for a few months, and when I finally caught up with it again I was shocked at how good Stryker is at announcing. He is great at what he does.


To conclude? I get smarky, I'm not gonna lie. If I get smarky about anything it's when a storyline completely falls apart logically and I just have to sit there shaking my head. But I'll be the last person to condemn a wrestler just because he can't entertain me...that is assuming he can get the pop from the crowd. I seem to be a rare breed in that I can get totally into a show and mark the fuck out, but come here and complain about certain aspects of it. Though, honestly, the only part I complain about on Raw is Orton. But that's because he's fucking travesty on the mic. He should be so much better.

I like to think I'm just as much of a fan as I was years ago, before I even heard of Wrestlezone and going online to hear that Jericho is returning two months before the fact. If I couldn't mark out, then why would I watch wrestling? To come onto the forums and complain? Yeah, what a great existence that would be.

 

[Pimpin]

I agree & disagree with you on some points about this.

There are sixty seven threads (approximately) about what the IWC thinks about everything, and I disagree with most of them. I don't think I am fit to be a member of the Internet Wrestling Community anymore. I'd throw away my card, but I don't think I was ever really a card carrying member.

First of all, I still, and will always mark out for Kane. I know that he doesn't do a shooting star press or a flying tiger space drop, but I'm OK with that. The man moves better than men that weight 60 pounds less than him. He is never injured, works well with everyone, works well in every position on the card, and is capable of carrying super heavyweights in matches. He made Mark Henry look serviceable as a wrestler in ECW, and then months later was the glue that held Money in the Bank together. He looks like a legit tough guy, emphasizes his athleticism, but knows his limits and never tries to go too far. He used power moves to make a point, but has remarkable agility for a man his size, and uses it to set up his offense, or transition to different "chapters" of the story that he tells very well in the ring.

I agree with you on Kane. He moves better than people that are smaller than him & he works well anywhere whether it's in the main event, mid card or low card. Your right on point that he made Mark Henry look decent & not many people can do that. I kinda disagree with you that he was the glue to keeping Money In The Bank together as I thought that Kofi Kingston, Christian & MVP had the better performances in that match. The things that I like about Kane the most is that his agility is remarkable for a big man, he uses his power game to make his point & he tells a great story in the ring.

I do not care about cruiserweight wrestling. I find the matches semi entertaining. Don't get me wrong. I just don't think it should be featured. In WCW, the cruisers came out, first match, and got the crowd excited for the rest of the night. I would love this. Put Rey vs. Evan Bourne vs Jamie Noble vs. Jimmy Wang Yang vs. Brian Kendrick, or any combination thereof on first. Give them 12 minutes, and let them do some gymnastics. That's great. Those epileptic monkeys can do amazing things. The problem is the match has no continuity and looks like a gymnastics training session with five or six people doing some flips in the corners without every really putting it together. The matches require so much set up. For Evan Blande to do his Shooting Star Press, the guy usually has to roll over six or seven feet to get into position. In all honesty, if I have to see someone stumble halfway across the ring to get in position for a 619, I may very well vomit on myself. I understand that the little guys get a pop, but I have never taken them seriously. That being said, I am a Jeff Hardy fan, because his story is compelling. He can do everyone of the moves Rey does, but he doesn't make me want to change the channel because he is a compelling character, and has been for a decade.

Yes I love it when Cruiserweights do flips & shit mainly cause i'm not into the whole 300 pound roided up freaks going in the ring, but Cruiserweights are more of a hit & miss type in the ring when it comes to telling a story in the ring as all most of them do is just do flips & shit. Also most of their characters don't have any personality at all. In honesty I can't stand the 619 as it doesn't in the slightest bit look like a believable move, but at least he has a personality in his character.

I think HBK is overrated. Once again, don't get me wrong here. I respect him very much. I think his recent devotion to putting people over and passing the torch is commendable. I think he has had his share of great matches. But the talk of his being Mr. Wrestlemania is stupid. The Undertaker is Mr. Wrestlemania. HBK is overrated on the mic. Not stumbling over your words is one thing, but he doesn't say anything or consequence. Blah Blah, I'm the showstopper. Bla Blah, you're going to beat my ass for 30 minutes, then I'm going to kick you and win. Blah Blah. HHH carried him on the mic for DX's entire run. He is good enough on the mic, but nothing seriously great. He has a smile that lights up a room, but a voice that puts it to sleep. Seriously, he is a smarmy Edge-type heel that gets cheered for his body of work and dedication to the business. He is no long edgy, and really only was edgy for like six months in 1997. While everyone wants to talk about his great matches, look at who they were with, Stone Cold, Bret Hart, Undertaker, Stone Cold. Is it coincidence that the guys HBK had his best matches with were the guys who were regarded as the best workers of their time? HBK has illustrated an unmatched capacity to be carried and let his charisma get him by.

I disagree with you on HBK cause I find him to be remarkable in the ring for his age & the nearly career ending injury that he had. Hell he carried a legendary wrestler who's nearly one huge bump away from a wheelchair in Hulk Hogan to at least a watchable match, & he even bland wrestlers such as Masters & Kennedy through a match. Like you said he has had great matches with Bret Hart, Austin & Taker, but he's also had great matches with Orton, Edge, Angle & even Triple H. I agree with you that his mic skills are about average, but he more than makes up for it with his in ring work.

I do not hate Batista, John Cena, Hulk Hogan, Warrior, Scott Steiner, or any of the other body builder types. Maybe it's because I have my own muscles unlike most of the IWC. I think that these guys have a very important role AT THE TOP of whatever show they're on. Batista throws people to the ground because that's what people with 4% body fat that weigh 300 pounds do. John Cena and Hulk Hogan pander to kids because they look like comic book characters and kids read comic books. Sorry that their body mass keep them from flying off the top rope and doing two flips and a no handed cartwheel onto their opponent. They do what makes sense for them to do, and they do it well, and they are the stars of the show because this is what regular fans, like me, want to see. Sorry guys, if you want to see Evan Blande go over these guys and become the star he deserves to be, but if he won, wouldn't those of you in the IWC bitch about how bad the writing was to have that small of a guy go over and there would be twenty posts about how Cena should have lost the belt to Edge first, and then Edge to Jeff, Jeff to Jericho, and then Jericho to Bourne. This way it would make kayfabe sense.

I won't slander Cena's in ring skills as I know he can do way more than 5 moves & his ring skills are not spectacular, but not terrible either. I think that the reason why the IWC hates on Cena is cause they think that he is a poor man's ripoff of Hogan & that his potential is being wasted by playing a passive kid friendly character instead of a badd ass edgy heel character that the IWC loves.

I think the reason why there is hate on Hogan is that most of the people on here(including myself, but I don't really hate on Hogan) started watching wrestling during the Attitude Era & never really experienced Hogan as the kid friendly character instead of the cool heel.

Batista on the other hand is very bland in the ring & to the people of the IWC, it seems like they are trying to shove Batista down our throats just like they did/are doing with Cena.

I hate spoilers. I do not have a compulsive need to know what happened on SD! Tuesday night at 11:01. I like to watch the show. I don't need to read the spoilers to see if it looks like a good show. I watch the show because I like wrestling. Also, in this paragraph I would like to note that I usually watch DVR delayed shows because instead of sitting her jacking off to the opening theme song, I am out, with girls, and booze.

I agree I hate Spoilers too.

I know nothing about Japanese wrestling. If you watch every Puroseau match made every week, good for you. I wish I had that much dedication. I, honestly, care more about the story than the match. Weird to see typed on an internet forum? Well, I know it is a TV show, and I like the TV show aspects over the sports aspects. That is not to say I don't love a great match, but part of what makes a match great to me is the build up. It is very rare that a match with no build up captures my attention. Jeff Hardy vs. HBK (funny here) from Raw in January of '08 is one of these matches. It was just great. Bad matches do more to separate me from a guy's fan club more than good ones do endear me. CM Punk came into the WWE with all the internet support in the world, but I saw him as sloppy. It took me quite some time to get over this impression, and part of what did it was during and after his title run, I enjoyed how much of a smart ass he was. He is funny. His dialogue made me more interested in his matches, and now I am quite impressed.

True Japanese wrestling doesn't tell much of a story in the ring, but I watch it cause it's regarded as a big deal over there & not a sideshow circus as most people protray wrestling as here in the great USA. I think Punk has started to learn more of the WWE style of wrestling & mixed it in with a little hints of the ROH style of wrestling that I thought made him great in my opinion.

I still mark out. Sorry guys, I am not cynical enough to be an IWC member. When CM Punk cashed in, I screeched like a girl. When Hornswoggle was announced as Vince's son, I laughed. I hoop and holler everytime Ricky Steamboat is on TV. When Edge went crazy on Mick Foley as part of Mick's last WWE moment, I stared at the TV, not critiquing the beatdown, but appreciating Edge's moment of aggression. I like swerves.

I think everyone still marks out in my opinion. I believe that I am not a member of the IWC, but I did describe their thoughts & their general feelings on what their opinions would be in this post a bit. Personally I love the element of suprise in wrestling as it makes for great tv in my opinion.

I think Santino is an ass clown. Sometimes, he makes me laugh. Most of the time he reminds me that I need to piss. I am tired of his act.

I don't like Santino either, but I would rather see him than having to see him portraying himself as Santina every damn week.

I hate the brandsplit. I know, I know, the midcard will get buried. And this is bad why? Less suicide dives per hour? Fuck it. The guys on the top of the card sell the tickets, the merchandise, and the PPV's. End the brandsplit, make the top guys who aren't involved in the title hunt into the midcard. Then take the midcarders that are worth a shit, (Miz, Morrison, Kofi) and make them jerk the curtain. Then take Santino, Jamie Noble, Kendrick, Wang, and Mysterio, and job them out to the worthwhile guys on the roster. If we end the split, there will be less Chavo? Oh no, what ever will we do?

If we didn't have the mid card then it would be more difficult to build up newer stars for the next 5-7 years. I like the brand split as it's like a testing the waters type when it comes to making newer stars.

I am a Miz fan. You can see how hard the guy has worked to improve. He has to know how down on him people are, and yet, all he does is get better every week, give top five promos, and generate more heel heat than Priceless could ever dream of. Give me a fucking break, I have a problem with the people who hate on him. If everyone gave as much effort as he did, the show would be better off. He actually makes creative look like they have the ability to write wrestling shows. Then Rey Mysterio kills that thought.

I like The Miz as I think he has come a long way with his ring work & his mic work is outstanding as he draws a shit load of heel heat & he just keeps on improving week after week after week. I just don't see why people hate on him.

JR is not God on the mic. He doesn't know what half the moves are called. Michael Cole does. JR marks out for his favorites. That is my job. His is to call the fucking match, and tell us when the heels are being heelish. Matt Stryker is the best announcer they have. He knows the moves, the history, and respects the fans.

I agree that JR is not god on the mic, but in my opinion I can tolerate him more than I can Michael Cole. Striker is a bad ass announcer as he details the history of the business, he knows all the moves liek you said & he respects the fans. In adding to this post I also think that Josh Matthews can be a great annoucer within time.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

There are sixty seven threads (approximately) about what the IWC thinks about everything, and I disagree with most of them. I don't think I am fit to be a member of the Internet Wrestling Community anymore. I'd throw away my card, but I don't think I was ever really a card carrying member.

First of all, I still, and will always mark out for Kane. I know that he doesn't do a shooting star press or a flying tiger space drop, but I'm OK with that. The man moves better than men that weight 60 pounds less than him. He is never injured, works well with everyone, works well in every position on the card, and is capable of carrying super heavyweights in matches. He made Mark Henry look serviceable as a wrestler in ECW, and then months later was the glue that held Money in the Bank together. He looks like a legit tough guy, emphasizes his athleticism, but knows his limits and never tries to go too far. He used power moves to make a point, but has remarkable agility for a man his size, and uses it to set up his offense, or transition to different "chapters" of the story that he tells very well in the ring.

I do not care about cruiserweight wrestling. I find the matches semi entertaining. Don't get me wrong. I just don't think it should be featured. In WCW, the cruisers came out, first match, and got the crowd excited for the rest of the night. I would love this. Put Rey vs. Evan Bourne vs Jamie Noble vs. Jimmy Wang Yang vs. Brian Kendrick, or any combination thereof on first. Give them 12 minutes, and let them do some gymnastics. That's great. Those epileptic monkeys can do amazing things. The problem is the match has no continuity and looks like a gymnastics training session with five or six people doing some flips in the corners without every really putting it together. The matches require so much set up. For Evan Blande to do his Shooting Star Press, the guy usually has to roll over six or seven feet to get into position. In all honesty, if I have to see someone stumble halfway across the ring to get in position for a 619, I may very well vomit on myself. I understand that the little guys get a pop, but I have never taken them seriously. That being said, I am a Jeff Hardy fan, because his story is compelling. He can do everyone of the moves Rey does, but he doesn't make me want to change the channel because he is a compelling character, and has been for a decade.

I think HBK is overrated. Once again, don't get me wrong here. I respect him very much. I think his recent devotion to putting people over and passing the torch is commendable. I think he has had his share of great matches. But the talk of his being Mr. Wrestlemania is stupid. The Undertaker is Mr. Wrestlemania. HBK is overrated on the mic. Not stumbling over your words is one thing, but he doesn't say anything or consequence. Blah Blah, I'm the showstopper. Bla Blah, you're going to beat my ass for 30 minutes, then I'm going to kick you and win. Blah Blah. HHH carried him on the mic for DX's entire run. He is good enough on the mic, but nothing seriously great. He has a smile that lights up a room, but a voice that puts it to sleep. Seriously, he is a smarmy Edge-type heel that gets cheered for his body of work and dedication to the business. He is no long edgy, and really only was edgy for like six months in 1997. While everyone wants to talk about his great matches, look at who they were with, Stone Cold, Bret Hart, Undertaker, Stone Cold. Is it coincidence that the guys HBK had his best matches with were the guys who were regarded as the best workers of their time? HBK has illustrated an unmatched capacity to be carried and let his charisma get him by.

I do not hate Batista, John Cena, Hulk Hogan, Warrior, Scott Steiner, or any of the other body builder types. Maybe it's because I have my own muscles unlike most of the IWC. I think that these guys have a very important role AT THE TOP of whatever show they're on. Batista throws people to the ground because that's what people with 4% body fat that weigh 300 pounds do. John Cena and Hulk Hogan pander to kids because they look like comic book characters and kids read comic books. Sorry that their body mass keep them from flying off the top rope and doing two flips and a no handed cartwheel onto their opponent. They do what makes sense for them to do, and they do it well, and they are the stars of the show because this is what regular fans, like me, want to see. Sorry guys, if you want to see Evan Blande go over these guys and become the star he deserves to be, but if he won, wouldn't those of you in the IWC bitch about how bad the writing was to have that small of a guy go over and there would be twenty posts about how Cena should have lost the belt to Edge first, and then Edge to Jeff, Jeff to Jericho, and then Jericho to Bourne. This way it would make kayfabe sense.

I hate spoilers. I do not have a compulsive need to know what happened on SD! Tuesday night at 11:01. I like to watch the show. I don't need to read the spoilers to see if it looks like a good show. I watch the show because I like wrestling. Also, in this paragraph I would like to note that I usually watch DVR delayed shows because instead of sitting her jacking off to the opening theme song, I am out, with girls, and booze.

I know nothing about Japanese wrestling. If you watch every Puroseau match made every week, good for you. I wish I had that much dedication. I, honestly, care more about the story than the match. Weird to see typed on an internet forum? Well, I know it is a TV show, and I like the TV show aspects over the sports aspects. That is not to say I don't love a great match, but part of what makes a match great to me is the build up. It is very rare that a match with no build up captures my attention. Jeff Hardy vs. HBK (funny here) from Raw in January of '08 is one of these matches. It was just great. Bad matches do more to separate me from a guy's fan club more than good ones do endear me. CM Punk came into the WWE with all the internet support in the world, but I saw him as sloppy. It took me quite some time to get over this impression, and part of what did it was during and after his title run, I enjoyed how much of a smart ass he was. He is funny. His dialogue made me more interested in his matches, and now I am quite impressed.

I still mark out. Sorry guys, I am not cynical enough to be an IWC member. When CM Punk cashed in, I screeched like a girl. When Hornswoggle was announced as Vince's son, I laughed. I hoop and holler everytime Ricky Steamboat is on TV. When Edge went crazy on Mick Foley as part of Mick's last WWE moment, I stared at the TV, not critiquing the beatdown, but appreciating Edge's moment of aggression. I like swerves.

I think Santino is an ass clown. Sometimes, he makes me laugh. Most of the time he reminds me that I need to piss. I am tired of his act.

I hate the brandsplit. I know, I know, the midcard will get buried. And this is bad why? Less suicide dives per hour? Fuck it. The guys on the top of the card sell the tickets, the merchandise, and the PPV's. End the brandsplit, make the top guys who aren't involved in the title hunt into the midcard. Then take the midcarders that are worth a shit, (Miz, Morrison, Kofi) and make them jerk the curtain. Then take Santino, Jamie Noble, Kendrick, Wang, and Mysterio, and job them out to the worthwhile guys on the roster. If we end the split, there will be less Chavo? Oh no, what ever will we do?

I am a Miz fan. You can see how hard the guy has worked to improve. He has to know how down on him people are, and yet, all he does is get better every week, give top five promos, and generate more heel heat than Priceless could ever dream of. Give me a fucking break, I have a problem with the people who hate on him. If everyone gave as much effort as he did, the show would be better off. He actually makes creative look like they have the ability to write wrestling shows. Then Rey Mysterio kills that thought.

JR is not God on the mic. He doesn't know what half the moves are called. Michael Cole does. JR marks out for his favorites. That is my job. His is to call the fucking match, and tell us when the heels are being heelish. Matt Stryker is the best announcer they have. He knows the moves, the history, and respects the fans.

In conclusion, kick me out of the IWC. This fictional wonderland of cynicism smoothies, hate on a stick, and stuffed egos makes me sick. I will continue to post here, and maybe my contrarian views will spice up all the Batista hate fests. Maybe I can contribute the insight of the average fan. I am not, never was, and never want to be, a smark. I am a fan. I happen to be an informed fan, but a fan nonetheless. So next time Matt Hardy turns, and you all say you saw it coming, I will be sitting there slack jawed, wondering how he could do that to his own brother.

Have a slobberknocking day.

Totally agree with you on most of these points. I still will never get the love HBK receives by IWC and mostly on these forums. All the great matches he has had are with wrestlers that are better workers with him. To me, he has one of the worst offenses of any main eventers I've ever seen. He was a great midcard champion but will never be a great world champion.

I always liked watching the cruiserweight division in WCW with guys like Mysterio, Psicosis, Guerrera, and Kidman to name a few. Vince never seemed to care about the cruiserweight division but they had decent talent in London, Noble, and Nunzio. Sometimes I would rather watch a cruiserweight match than a heavyweight match for the fast pace action.

I used to bash Cena on different forums all the time because he constantly won and it seemed like he could take punishment for 30 minutes and then hit one move and he wins. I always respected for his dedication and hardwork to the business and he has definitely earned the position where he is at today. It doesn't bother me anymore that he does the same old moves because they are effective. He is a great storyteller in the ring and is one of the best workers in the WWE. He will be the top guy in the company for the next ten years and will continue to have great matches.

I have been guilty of reading spoilers from time to time. I didn't know about spoilers until I joined this forum last year and I usually read what happened on Smackdown if I knew I wasn't going to be able to watch it. It does get annoying when people constantly post spoilers because it ruins the suspense and enjoyment we have when we sit in front of the TV to watch our favorite wrestling program.

Lastly, I believe it is time for Jim Ross to be a color commentator and step away from the play-by-play. I'm not a Michael Cole fan but at least he knows the wrestler's moves and doesn't mess up. I remember JR calling Edge's Edgecution on Jeff Hardy from the top rope at Judgment Day a "superplex". Also on RAW Monday night, he stated that Hardy broke his metatarsal and not his metacarpal. Those are little things that you have to pick up on and be able to accurately call. I would also like to see a face-heel announcing duo. Matt Strikers seems heel but sometimes I cannot really tell. Lawler would be a great heel commentator because Cole is the ultimate face commentator. Lawler was gold back around 2002-2004 especially during the Evolution days and was a great counterbalance to J.R. I know it probably will never happen but I would like to Paul Heyman replace Todd Grisham on Smackdown. I like Grisham and it seems like he loves this business but I can't get into him as a color commentator for some reason.

 

[FromTheSouth]

I agree in part with what is said but I also disagree with what is said. One of the main things that I disagree with is the talking about Puroresu. Sometimes watching a match just to see that match is always a good point. But there is also the element of it being a good idea that we can say that they are portrayed as being a professional fighters and they are paid to fight where the main motivation is with the money they are getting. That is an element of the old school method of booking, why were they fighting in the first place, why were they faces. Heels had a basic motivation for why they were heels. Now they have a heels for no real reason than they feel entitled.

OK, but the point of the thread is that MY personal preferences are closer to that of the screaming fan in section 206 that the actual IWC. I'm sure puroseau is great, but I like the TV show aspect of the show as much as, or more than the wrestling. I, personally, care about a match a whole lot more when it has been built up and have personal stake in the outcome. I want to be happy or sad at who won. I think that if the WWE was just wrestling, I wouldn't watch. It is the combination of the stories and the action that gets me.

And, I only brought up puroseau to isolate one of the differences between myself, a fan, and the general IWC, who go into the WWE threads and tell us how much better Japanese wrestling is. I just don't care.

I will criticize when it is required. A good example would be with the booking of the main event of Wrestlemania, while I understand why they had Triple H standing tall, I could see another longer term plan that could have resulted in better profits further down the line. I will criticize because what I want is for the best to happen for the WWE in the long run.

OK, that's great. But there are too many threads that criticize and not enough just looking forward. Too many threads are about what should have happened, and there are too few about what should happen next. That's my problem. If you want what's best for the WWE, tell us how you would get there from here. Seriously, it's two months later, and people are still bitching about Wrestlemania. Let it go, and book the next month of action for us. Tell us how you would change the direction of the company instead of what you would do if you had a time machine and a hatchet.

I find certain wrestlers boring because they have nothing there for me to care about, and if there is it seems like it is forced. Most seem bland and have no actual character to get behind. Cena is not the best, won't be until he can engage people on a level where everyone can care about him. Hogan made people care about him. HBK made people care about him, while he may have made people hate him, he was still making people care whether he won or lost. If you care about Cena winning or losing that is fine, I just find him bland and boring. Batista as one of the hardest working wrestlers, what? I understand why people of his size are needed however he is not that good. I have no problem with people liking wrestlers but I have problems with certain wrestlers because of numerous things whether they are heels or faces, I ignore them as much as can.

OK, and you are free t have those opinions. My post was asking people to consider the character aspects of the wrestler and how that impacts their moves. These posts that say all Batista does is throw people and that's why he sucks are stupid. What the fuck else is he supposed to do? Look at the guy. I think you severely missed the point of the post. All I was saying is that my opinions diverge greatly from the whole of the IWC. My post was a backlash against all the negativity on these forums. I just think that the majority of posts on here come off as whiny. Underneath all the whining exists a large pile of armchair bookers that don't present new ideas, just tell you how stupid the current creative team is. Seriously, they don't even offer solutions, they just tell you why teh angool suckz cuz Czena nos 5 moves! This post was a cry for help. This post was an appeal to the sensibilities of the better posters on the forums. I put in in general so the 14 year olds who post crap never saw it. I wanted you and KB and NorCal to read this thread. I respect your opinion, but you're focusing too much on the individual section and not the sum of the parts.

I want there to be competition, so I want Indy promotions to succeed, because if they do that means more places for Wrestlers to work and get paid. I want the industry to clean up because wrestlers dieing from things such as overdoses and suicides. I can live with wrestlers dieing within crashes and other similar deaths by accidents. While it may be a tragedy it is tolerable as an occurance that happens. I see part of the vehemence for cruiserweights coming from a misplaced sense of wanting the industry to be steroid free. I want the industry to be steroid free but I also know that Steroids aren't always given away by the size of the wrestler.

I agree wholeheartedly here.

I find Cornette and Storm to both talk a lot of sense about the business, while I can see why people think that Lance Storm is always negative, it is because he wants what is best for the business to happen. I think that is where a large amount of the negativity within the IWC comes from initially, however people love to complain there is much within the way that humans act. Negative optimists are conundrums but seem to make up a large majority of the IWC.

The difference between Strom and Cornette and the anti-Czena club in the WWE sections is that first hand knowledge and experience will always carry more weight than opinion. Their complaints are warranted and worth a look. They also just happen to provide solid reasoning and alternatives.

My post was basically asking posters to be more like Storm and Cornette, in hind sight, of course. They complain out of love. They offer alternative ideas. Too often, the IWC seems intent on tearing down the WWE and replacing it with an hour of Rey Mysterio and Evan Blande doing gymnastics. Storm and Cornette are old school guys, and they want what I want, two guys to get in the ring, sell for each other, and tell a story.

I could go further into it, but I want to see a change in the attitude of the IWC, rather than people going that they want to hand in their IWC card, but use the forums in a positive way to express their love for Pro Wrestling. Respect of Pro Wrestling as a business as well as being a sport. It is not exactly a true sport but it isn't entertainment either.

I want the same thing. I don't think you got the point of where I was going. I was just seperating myself from the IWC and trying to remind people that there are still fans. I am a fan who marks out, loves swerves, likes watching the main event guys, and understands that they are the main draws. I like to see character development, and don't like to see flips and gymnastics when I could be seeing a match that adds to the buildup of something that the E has made me invest in emotionally. I want to be entertained, and I don't need to count flying tiger space drops to do that.

 

[NSL]

FTS - I agree. I watch, and am a member here, because I am a fan. I'll admit to reading spoilers, but that's because I can't watch Smackdown, but for the rest, I'm right along side you. I love swerves, I respect quality matches, and I'm not ashamed of who I'm a fan of, or why. Kudos for being a Kane fan. I am too. He's one of my all-time favorites in the WWE.

I only disagree on two things. I love cruiserweight wrestling. I agree that it should be used to open shows, but it needs to be done right. Give them a storyline. Jamie Noble v. Hornswoggle may have been absolute shit, but it was worth watching. I loved everything WCW did with their storylines also.

I am a fan of the brand split, but I'd do it differently. Much differently. Instead of RAW v. Smackdown, I'd have WWE v. WCW. For the common fans, such as you and I, this could be done, and be believable. Have Shane and Stephanie run off with WCW, and put on a show like WCW would have. Use similar styles, similar storylines, and similar booking. This will never happen, because there's too many people in the IWC that would know everything behind it. They could even put the show on in competing time slots. It's not like Vince wouldn't be raking in all the money anyway, and it'd give them a chance to prep themselves for taking over WWE.

 

[Scott Free]

There are sixty seven threads (approximately) about what the IWC thinks about everything, and I disagree with most of them. I don't think I am fit to be a member of the Internet Wrestling Community anymore. I'd throw away my card, but I don't think I was ever really a card carrying member.

Well, you can't, unless you stop using the Internet for anything wrestling related. If you use it, you're a proud member of the IWC no ifs or buts.
You opinions on Kane and the rest have a lot of people agreeing so it seem the ICW isn't as mindless as you might have thought, and always remember YOU are part of it.

In conclusion, kick me out of the IWC. This fictional wonderland of cynicism smoothies, hate on a stick, and stuffed egos makes me sick. I will continue to post here, and maybe my contrarian views will spice up all the Batista hate fests. Maybe I can contribute the insight of the average fan. I am not, never was, and never want to be, a smark. I am a fan. I happen to be an informed fan, but a fan nonetheless. So next time Matt Hardy turns, and you all say you saw it coming, I will be sitting there slack jawed, wondering how he could do that to his own brother.

You can't get kicked out, you can only quit using the Internet for anything wrestling related, this would take you out of the community. That's the key word community. As far as being a "Smark" look up the definition, you might not want to be one, but if you buy pro wrestling products, you're considered one by the business you're a fan of, unless you chose to remain uninformed about backstage affairs, then they'll simply call you a "Mark", don't blame the IWC for their lingo. If you chose to focus on the bad of a community, that's exactly what you'll get, I would suggest you keep doing what you're doing, partecipate and make the ICW better.

Peace out.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Well, you can't,

Actually, yes I can. I can choose to not subscribe to the mindless train of thought that states: Czena sux, Cruisers rool, if it's Japanese, it's awesome. I can be a fan, and I can post about wrestling. I can, however, not subscribe to a belief system determined to bring down everything good in the WWE. I can appreciate a swerve without analyzing how it hold Evan Bourne down. I can post positive views and deal with things as they arise and look forward. The general IWC looks back and tells you haw they would have done things. I choose to look forward and speak of how I would develop what is happening.

unless you stop using the Internet for anything wrestling related. If you use it, you're a proud member of the IWC no ifs or buts.

Who the fuck said you get to set the rules? Especially in my thread. I'm glad you're sad to see me go and all, but stop telling me what I can and can't do.

You opinions on Kane and the rest have a lot of people agreeing so it seem the ICW isn't as mindless as you might have thought, and always remember YOU are part of it.

Yeah, six people agreed on me on a board with 3,000 members. I must be one of the mindless sheep.

You can't get kicked out, you can only quit using the Internet for anything wrestling related, this would take you out of the community.

I have never seen someone miss the point of a post so badly. Stop picking apart pieces and take it as a whole. There are already posts explaining it, which you obviously didn't read. You got involved in upper level discussion. Please, go back to the I hate Batista threads.

That's the key word community.

Thanks for letting me know what the key word of my post was. Let me guess, the key word in your response was proud. Let me tailor an entire response around the word proud, because that's obviously what you're talking about. See, I am a mind reader too. Sorry if I seem dismissive of you, but it's only because you're not even close thematically or factually to what this post is about, and you're ruining my thread.

As far as being a "Smark" look up the definition,

Smart mark. I don't read spoilers, and I don't care about backstage politics. I watch the product on the screen and either like or dislike it without having to really search for more than how I feel when I see it.

you might not want to be one, but if you buy pro wrestling products, you're considered one by the business you're a fan of,

So the kids that buy Rey masks are automatically smarks? I love the three year old smarks. Why don't you look up the definition? You have no grasp of this thread.

unless you chose to remain uninformed about backstage affairs,

I do.

then they'll simply call you a "Mark",

I'm ok with that. Another word for mark is fan. I prefer that to "cynical asshole who makes people wonder why he watches something he hates so much." Plus, it's easier to say.

don't blame the IWC for their lingo.

I don't. I blame them for their cynicism, hatred, and naivete.

If you chose to focus on the bad of a community, that's exactly what you'll get,

So, let me get this straight. You want me to stop focusing on the bad.....and still be a member of the IWC? All the IWC does is focus on the bad. That's what the entire 1200 word essay was about. Stop focusing on the bad. These people don't suck, they are playing a character. The cruisers don't contribute to the show. How is comparing everything to Japan making the WWE better? I pose these questions for a reason. You didn't get that.

I would suggest you keep doing what you're doing, partecipate and make the ICW better.

I never said I wasn't going to participate. I just said I wasn't going to join in on the hate fests, except for the one about Santino.

Peace out.

Bombs away!

 

[RVDgurl]

I find the topic of this thread extremely interesting simply because I still have no idea what the IWC supports. I joined this forum about 3 years ago. I had always heard that the IWC was all about Independent promotions and backed the guys who were underrated. I love all wrestling, but I much prefer smaller, Independent promotions. Naturally I thought that joining WZ was going to give me the opportunity to talk about wrestling with a shit ton of people who liked the same stuff I do. I was shocked to find out that was not the case at all. Turns out my interests are much different from most of the IWC.

I love ECW. I always have and always will love Paul Heyman and his ECW. I loved the edginess, the storylines, the freedom, the violence and the diversity that this promotion offered. It was so fresh and different from what WCW or WWE was doing at the time. I live about 90 minutes from Philly and I had the opportunity to see 2 live events and it blew me away. I still hold firm to my belief that if you didn't live through the ECW craze, you will never "get it". You can watch all the DVD's in the world, but it just won't do it justice. I spent most of my first year on WZ defending ECW and it's legacy. It still shocks me when someone says "so-and-so sucks because they wrestled in a bingo hall in Philly". But I guess ignorance is bliss.

I live and breath ROH. This is by far my favorite current promotion. ROH puts out a tremendous product and it still amazes me that the IWC doesn't pick up on that. There are a few people on WZ who are educated on the topic and I enjoy discussing ROH with them. But again, I spend most of my time trying to round up new fans or defending it. ROH is not a publicly funding company like the WWE. They don't have huge titantrons, fancy lighting and tons of pyro. They don't need it and it's not what they're about. I love the good, old fashion wrestling matches. Matches that you can actually get into because they're given more than a 5 minute spot to perform.

I don't think the WWE is the gold standard of wrestling. I like the WWE. I buy the PPV's and I attend shows. But the letters W-W-E don't make anybody super special. Sting and AJ Styles will always be great even if they never work for Vince. Bryan Danielson is still the best in the world even if he doesn't work for Vince. Saying that a wrestler is not good because they don't work for the WWE is like saying a baseball player isn't good unless they play for the Yankees. It's pretty ridiculous. I respect the efforts of all professional wrestlers.

So I say: to each their own. Personally, I think the IWC is just a myth. Yeah, we all get on our computers and talk about wrestling, but is there really an overall consensus about what's good and what's not? Hell, on this site alone John Cena went from being the most hated man in wrestling to one of the most respected all within a year. Besides, what would we debate about if we all liked the same thing?

 

[Uncle Sam]

I hate to have to contribute to a thread of posts that, put together, would span a page count larger than all the Harry Potter novels. Unfortunately, I suddenly feel compelled to. I have no idea why. Perhaps it's because it's a Sunday and there's piss all to do on Sundays. That's most likely to be the reason.

People who jump up and down going "Look at me! Look at me! I don't have similar opinions to those which are generally believed to be typical of wrestling fans with an internet connection!" mildly irritate me. That's probably the most emotion I'll ever feel while looking at a screen, though I believe moderate annoyance to be attainable.

Taking pride in not sharing the opinion of people who can't spell and just randomly hate anybody that is moderately pushed is like taking pride in being the prettiest women in Tennessee. Yes, I'm implying Tennessee has ugly women. Watcha gonna do!?

Me, I change my opinions as often as I do my underpants - weekly. I stole that from Jake but I'm confident he stole it from someone else, so we're even. One week I'll be stealing Slyfox's spreadsheets to throw in people's faces. The next, I'll talking about how being a spot monkey is A-OK in my book. Basically, I'll hold an opinion and cling to the best straws I can find to defend it. I'm a riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a contradiction wrapped in a heavy set black man wrapped in a pasty British guy.

In conclusion, it's not cool to be part of the IWC and not have typical IWC opinions. To openly seem smug about it is less cool. Me; I'm cool. You should all try to be more like me.

 

[A.J.]

FTS, first off man wow amazing post. I cannot fathom the time this took you to write as I am sure it took awhile.

I understand your points about the IWC as over time the IWC has taken this attitude of "we know is best for wrestling and screw everyone who doesn't agree with us." Reading your post has really reminded me why I have stepped away from the IWC on message boards and everything as I just want to sit back and enjoy wrestling like I used too, before I read every story what is going on backstage or what others feel about "said" wrestler and how they ever suck or freaking rule. Granted, I still come to IWC as well here I am replying to your thread, but its not like I am taking everything they say so serious and what not or take what is said by "reporters" for all these wrestling news sites.

I am with you on most of everything you said as I will almost always mark out for heels and now does that make me a "smark?" I'll leave that up to you and everyone to decide but for me I have always been drawn to heels. Hell I can remember coming back from a break from wrestling and seeing Kurt Angle and thinking "damn this guy is good" and I was drawn to him back in 2000, which I became a huge fan. For me I'm just not a huge face kinda of person, as I like when the bad guy steals a win or cheats to win as I find that way more entertaining then the good guy doing whats right everytime. Was there a time when I marked out for the face? Sure there was, but over time my interest changed and the face became boring to me and the heel interesting, and that is how it is for me. Maybe I dunno I like the heel as they get to things I wish I could.

Am I a fan of Cena, Batista, and others? Not a huge fan as again I am heel kinda of person, but I do respect that they put on a great show in giving everything they got. People like them help keep the company on top, and again its fake wrestling and its about storytelling and in ring action. Can you dislike a character? Sure I think you can as I know I do, but doesn't mean I dont "mark" out when Cena can lift the massive Show and Edge on his shoulders for an attitude adjustment. Wrestlers are entertainers putting on a show for all of us and instead of bitching about it, we should all just shut up and enjoy the show.

Do I still read spoilers? Sure I do as sometimes I can't watch every RAW, ECW, or Smackdown so I least what to know what is going happen, and its not like it takes away from the show if I do get to watch it as I will still "mark" out form moves and what not even if I know the result as I appreciate the art form that is professional wrestling. It is just the people in the IWC that take spoilers and go crazy with them blaming the show saying it was either great or sucked and what the hell is WWE doing and man wrestling sucks I hate it. If so many in the IWC hate wrestling then why watch? It has been said so many times around here then just change the channel and watch something else it is not that hard to do.

The whole brand split ending thing...I just cannot agree with that as the company needs new stars for the future as few of the top superstars on RAW wont be around in the next 5 years, and the WWE needs new superstars to be the face of the company in the years to come. Its a a never ending process in professional wrestling and that why WWE has been able to survive as long as it has as it goes through periods where they are creating the stars of tomorrow, establishing the stars of tomorrow, stars of tomorrow are superstars, and then those stars give the rub to next group of stars of tomorrow. Ending the brand split would I think limited and hurt the process of building the stars of tomorrow, and creating a point where what will the WWE do when the top dogs can no longer go. You need that space for the stars of tomorrow to grow and develop and where the top dogs can carry the company and lay the ground work for the starts of tomorrow to grow.

The IWC will never go away. Sure there will be a few who will be leveled headed and have reasonable explanations or insightful inputs about what is taking place in professional wrestling. For the most there will be the whiners, complainers, and those who know more more than Vince and company telling everyone what they think and feel. You can distance yourself from them, but you will never escape them.

 

[Scott Free]

Actually, yes I can. I can choose to not subscribe to the mindless train of thought that states: Czena sux, Cruisers rool, if it's Japanese, it's awesome. I can be a fan, and I can post about wrestling. I can, however, not subscribe to a belief system determined to bring down everything good in the WWE. I can appreciate a swerve without analyzing how it hold Evan Bourne down. I can post positive views and deal with things as they arise and look forward. The general IWC looks back and tells you haw they would have done things. I choose to look forward and speak of how I would develop what is happening.

Nobody said you could not have your own train of thought, and generalizing on anything, including the IWC isn't a wise thing to do. Your position is not unique, a lot of people share it. But a lot of people do not, so if you want to avoid them, fine by me, give it a shot.

Who the fuck said you get to set the rules? Especially in my thread. I'm glad you're sad to see me go and all, but stop telling me what I can and can't do.

Well, if you stop telling me what I can and cannot do, I'll do the same. I like being part of the IWC, you can't lump me into a generalization and get away with it. I don't watch Japanese wrestling, but I can appreciate someone's views that does, I don't care for roided up, supehyped cartoon characters that get paraded as wrestling legends, but I accept the fact they sell tickets and some people like them. I don't mind John Cena, but I can understand some people not liking him. I don't read spoilers, because I watch the shows, but I don't condemn them because some people can't watch the show and may need them. I read the backstage gossip, but I can see them for what they are worth. I'll watch WWE, TNA and ROH and not chose between the brands because I'm a wrestling fan and I'll post what I think of what is going on in the business, negative or positive, because I'm a fan and I care about the business. I don't need you telling me what I can or can't do either.

I have never seen someone miss the point of a post so badly. Stop picking apart pieces and take it as a whole. There are already posts explaining it, which you obviously didn't read. You got involved in upper level discussion. Please, go back to the I hate Batista threads.

I got the point entirely, it's a tipical case of "I'm better than the IWC" syndrome, where a member of a community suddently decides he's above it.

So, let me get this straight. You want me to stop focusing on the bad.....and still be a member of the IWC? All the IWC does is focus on the bad. That's what the entire 1200 word essay was about. Stop focusing on the bad. These people don't suck, they are playing a character. The cruisers don't contribute to the show. How is comparing everything to Japan making the WWE better? I pose these questions for a reason. You didn't get that.

I think you're missing the point. This forum is part of the IWC, and you're bitching about other members of the ICW bitching. You don't bother with the great insight provided by some of the posters here, you don't take into account all the positive posts, and you don't consider other IWC members individuals with their own set of values and opinions, you just generalize and lump us all with the "Batista sukz" crowd, thanks a lot.

I never said I wasn't going to participate. I just said I wasn't going to join in on the hate fests, except for the one about Santino.

Nobody said you have to join hate fests, you decide what you do in the IWC, but please give the other people the same courtesy.


Peace out.

 

[hater]

I've only been on here for about a week, but this is easily the best post i've seen. While I don't really go for the big superheavyweights, I understand your points. I don't really like the cruiserweights either. That doesn't leave many options for me though. Hence my nickname. Kane is one of the only big men with any type of agility. I just feel like once they took the mask off, his character fell off a bit. I still mark out for HHH,Y2J,Angle,Sting and Taker. I'm 31 years old and i've been watching wrestling since I can remember. Japanese wrestling is pretty good,but their moves get stolen by american wrestlers anyway. Seeing how i,m just rambling I'm sure someone will post something ripping me next. Oh well!!!! While I personally can't stand Batista,Cena,Mysterio,Miz,MVP and a whole lot more, I understand why they are where they're at. If you are over, you get TV time. My favorites are the 225-260 pounders who can move at a decent pace. I forgot to add Umaga to the big guys who can move. Can't think of nothing else, so let the ripping begin. Almost forgot,HBK is good, but Angle is the best I've seen in along fuckin time. Wish we could have seen him with Bret Hart.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Nobody said you could not have your own train of thought, and generalizing on anything, including the IWC isn't a wise thing to do. Your position is not unique, a lot of people share it. But a lot of people do not, so if you want to avoid them, fine by me, give it a shot.

That's great that a lot of people share my opinion. I don't know why you are obsessed with telling me that I am a member of the IWC. I know that. I know I post on a wrestling board. I'm not stupid. All this post was about was a backlash against all those hate threads that are in the WWE section. The TNA section is even worse. I am tired of people accepting, as fact, certain opinions. There is no debate on a certain set of beliefs, most notably, cruisers, Batista, and Japan. I am speaking up for the dissenters on those opinions. If you agree cool, if not cool. You seem to be offended by that for some reason.

Well, if you stop telling me what I can and cannot do, I'll do the same.

No, you first.

I like being part of the IWC, you can't lump me into a generalization and get away with it.

Or can I? Jesus dude, what is this bug up your ass? Simply put, I am sorry if you are offended that I am a Kane fan, or whatever it is that is offending you. In this thread, the people who don't want to be lumped into some kind of generalization have generally spoken up with messages of support. Jump on the bandwagon, there's room.

I don't watch Japanese wrestling, but I can appreciate someone's views that does,

I never said I didn't respect anyone's views. Nowhere in the post am I offensive about anyone's beliefs. Whoo Hoo watch some Puroseau, or don't. That isn't the point.

I don't care for roided up, supehyped cartoon characters that get paraded as wrestling legends, but I accept the fact they sell tickets and some people like them.

Most of the people like them, that is why they sell tickets. It is OK to be a fan without attacking everyone once they get over. A lot of people act like jilted lovers when one of their favorites gets over and doesn't tattoo "Thank You WZ Forums" on their face. That's ridiculous. When Batista was in OVW, the internet fans couldn't wait to get him to the WWE. Now, he's here, and suddenly, he's shit. I don't understand these things.

I don't mind John Cena, but I can understand some people not liking him.

Did I ever say that no one is free to differ from my opinion? Why is my difference of said opinion bother you so much?

I don't read spoilers, because I watch the shows, but I don't condemn them because some people can't watch the show and may need them.

Did I say anything about those people? I just don't like it when spoilers get pushed into the forums. Spoilers are for the news page. These are simple points I make.

I read the backstage gossip, but I can see them for what they are worth. I'll watch WWE, TNA and ROH and not chose between the brands because I'm a wrestling fan and I'll post what I think of what is going on in the business, negative or positive, because I'm a fan and I care about the business. I don't need you telling me what I can or can't do either.

I don't think I ever did tell you what to do or what to think or what to type. Dude, you have some issues. For one, basic reading comprehension.

I got the point entirely, it's a tipical case of "I'm better than the IWC" syndrome, where a member of a community suddently decides he's above it.

Not really. I never said I was better than anyone. I just picked a few points I am contentious about, a few things that I am tired of, and enumerated my ideas. I don't see what's wrong with that, but you seem to have a big problem with it. So I'll apologize for offending you by having a different opinion.

I think you're missing the point.

I don't think I missed the point of my own post.

This forum is part of the IWC, and you're bitching about other members of the ICW bitching. You don't bother with the great insight provided by some of the posters here, you don't take into account all the positive posts, and you don't consider other IWC members individuals with their own set of values and opinions, you just generalize and lump us all with the "Batista sukz" crowd, thanks a lot.

UMMM, ok, You're whiny and completely lost here. I don't give a fuck what your opinions of Batista are. I just gave mine. Once again, please don't tell your mom I hurt your feelings, but seriously, lighten up. You have written two posts now telling me that I shouldn't belittle your opinion while all you do is belittle mine. In all honesty, if you don't want to be lumped in with that crowd, make a post that separates you from them. Don't just go after me to try and make a name for yourself, I assure you, I am not a big enough deal around here for you to get the rub you're looking for.



Nobody said you have to join hate fests, you decide what you do in the IWC, but please give the other people the same courtesy.


Peace out.[/QUOTE]

 

[Scott Free]

That's great that a lot of people share my opinion. I don't know why you are obsessed with telling me that I am a member of the IWC. I know that. I know I post on a wrestling board. I'm not stupid. All this post was about was a backlash against all those hate threads that are in the WWE section. The TNA section is even worse. I am tired of people accepting, as fact, certain opinions. There is no debate on a certain set of beliefs, most notably, cruisers, Batista, and Japan. I am speaking up for the dissenters on those opinions. If you agree cool, if not cool. You seem to be offended by that for some reason.

Well, so basically, it's a hate thread about hate threads ? I don't know about you, but I'd see it as part of the problem, not a solution.

No, you first.

Ok, you got it.

Or can I? Jesus dude, what is this bug up your ass? Simply put, I am sorry if you are offended that I am a Kane fan, or whatever it is that is offending you. In this thread, the people who don't want to be lumped into some kind of generalization have generally spoken up with messages of support. Jump on the bandwagon, there's room.

Dislike bandwagons, if I did like them, I'd be praising popular stuff and turning my back on what I actually like.

I never said I didn't respect anyone's views. Nowhere in the post am I offensive about anyone's beliefs. Whoo Hoo watch some Puroseau, or don't. That isn't the point.

Bold part is what we'll talk about latter...

Most of the people like them, that is why they sell tickets. It is OK to be a fan without attacking everyone once they get over. A lot of people act like jilted lovers when one of their favorites gets over and doesn't tattoo "Thank You WZ Forums" on their face. That's ridiculous. When Batista was in OVW, the internet fans couldn't wait to get him to the WWE. Now, he's here, and suddenly, he's shit. I don't understand these things.

Me either, there's always a subgroup in any community that will pick the less popular vs the popular just to stand out though.

Did I ever say that no one is free to differ from my opinion? Why is my difference of said opinion bother you so much?

I never said it did. I just mentioned you tend to generalize a lot about other people's opinions.

UMMM, ok, You're whiny and completely lost here. I don't give a fuck what your opinions of Batista are. I just gave mine. Once again, please don't tell your mom I hurt your feelings, but seriously, lighten up. You have written two posts now telling me that I shouldn't belittle your opinion while all you do is belittle mine. In all honesty, if you don't want to be lumped in with that crowd, make a post that separates you from them. Don't just go after me to try and make a name for yourself, I assure you, I am not a big enough deal around here for you to get the rub you're looking for.

I would call that not respecting another's opinion, would you not ?
Plus, you go on and use the exact tactics you supposedly rant against, and assume I give a minuscule amount of fecal matter about rub or "making a name" per say. Worse of all, you assumed my replies were attacks, they weren't, that might have changed due to your responses, but they weren't, I was just pointing out that the IWC isn't as bad as you think because there's people like you in it, but now, I may have changed my opinion.
I know, you don't give a shit, so please, go on and tell us more about why we should more positive and tolerant and how bad "those guys" in the IWC are. I'll be in the bathroom taking a shit while you do.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Me, I change my opinions as often as I do my underpants - weekly. I stole that from Jake but I'm confident he stole it from someone else, so we're even.

I think that's a Jake original.

Anyway, I haven't really read the thread. But that's the same for almost every thread I post in.

But basically isn't it about liking people/stuff who the majority of the IWC don't? From what I gathered, after a brief scan, From The South appears to like exactly what the majority on this forum do.

He doesn't care about Cruiserweight wrestling, the lack of discussion on the subject likely proves that the majority don't either.

He likes Kane. I was always under the impression that Kane was incredibly popular.

He doesn't know anything about Japanese wrestling. Shame, I was looking forward to his input in WZ's [Official] Japanese Wrestling Thread.

So bare in mind, I didn't really read it (too many words), but from a quick glance, and the ammount of comments that agree with him, I think that From The South is your typical IWC poster. It would probably be more daring if he said he didn't like John Cena now, seeing as it's currently cool to like him again.

Or, I've just totally misinterpreted the thread, like usual.