Eminem, The most controversial music artist ever!

[a0161613]

Controversy creates cash.

This saying rings truer for Marshall Mathers than most artists. The artist known as Eminem came from the underground and became a worldwide mainstream smash hit. Ten years later, he has not changed. Massively successful and popular, he is not just the most successful white rapper ever, he is one of the most successful full stop.

His songs read like a catalogue of chart hits that can match anybody from the past ten years. His albums are guaranteed to sell millions. His lyrics are both controversial and insightful.

He is a highly talented writer. You don’t sell the amount of records that he has without being good.

He is an incredible rapper. A brilliant showman, but when he raps, he is able to form rhyme with complexity in a way that few can claim to match.

He became known for his controversy and it follows him to this day. Drugs, sex, crime, politics, gang wars. The staple of anyone who wants to be controversial. He has been involved in it all because of his refusal to compromise and back away from any topic.

But he has always backed it up with his music. More than 80 millions album sales worldwide, masses of number ones, Grammys and an Oscar win.

There is no act here, no on stage personality. His rap persona is an extension of the man himself. A child who genuinely struggled against poverty, he grew up and has struggled with drink and drugs almost his entire adult life. These form a basis for his vehemently fierce lyrics as his family, particularly his wife and mother caught the full force of his music in his early works. By also attacking homosexuals as well as other artists, he has proven to be a heat magnet whilst being incredibly successful with it. His heat only helped to boost his success because his tunes were incredibly popular.

He is absolutely deserving of the title of the most controversial artist of all time. And he has been around for only ten years. In that time he has shown it all. Curse-filled lyrics, entertaining but notorious videos that poke funs at politicians and other celebrities, personal problems and drug rehab all alongside multiple-time platinum albums, sold out tours and classic singles.

 

[Big Sexy]

There was a period of time where Eminem was the most controversial rapper around but overall there have been other rappers/groups that were more controversial. If you aren't even the most controversial rapper of all time then it's hard to be considered the most controversial musician of all time. I can give you a few names that created just as much if not more controversy then Shady.

Ice T- The original gangster rapper. He pioneered the gangster rap style in the mid 80's along with Schoolly D. Ice T released 6 in the Mornin in 1986 and it is often regarded as the original gangster rap song. After Ice T, Boogie Down Productions released a gangster rap album and then NWA started to come out and hit the mainstream.

NWA- Ice T was the originator and then NWA took it to a whole new level. Gangster rap became hip hops most lucrative sub genre mainly due to the success of NWA. Songs like Straight Outta Compton and Fuck Tha Police were huge and caused tons of controversy.

2 Live Crew- They had their album As Nasty As They Wanna Be banned for a period of time. It became illegal for record stores to sell the album. The case went all the way to the Supreme Court before being overturned. It doesn't get more controversial then that. This was one of the original rap groups to really use a lot of sex in their lyrics. Too Short also deserves a huge mention when it comes to the sexual content of lyrics and bringing it to the mainstream.

Esham- If you haven't heard of Esham, think Eminem on crack. His records were so fucked up that he was accused of satanism. He rapped about death, drugs, evil, sex, and he did it to an extreme that hasn't really been matched.

Tupac Shakur- From his music, to his public persona, to his death, no rapper was more controversial then Tupac and I'm surprised no one in the competition picked him. He has countless controversial songs from Brenda's Got a Baby, to I Get Around, to Holler if Ya Hear Me, and Hit em Up; his albums were full of controversy. Outside of his music Pac was also arrested numerous times, and served time in jail after he was convicted of sexual abuse. He was the first rapper to have a number one album while in jail. His feud with Biggie started the biggest rivalry in hip hop history. His death is still unsolved and had tons of controversy around it, and still does to this day. No offense to Eminem but nothing he has done or ever could do would make him more controversial then Tupac.

Guys like Esham, Too Short, and Ice T that I mentioned above were all huge influences on Eminem as a growing artist and is a big reason why he is so controversial. Em has probably surpassed some and may be on equal footing with others when it comes to being controversial but no way is he the most controversial rapper ever, let alone the most controversial musician.

 

[jmt225]

I feel that Eminem is a solid, strong choice, Numbers.

Em's first album, The Slim Shady LP, featured a song titled "97' Bonnie & Clyde" that revolved around Eminem telling his daughter the story of how he killed her mother. I mean, man... it doesn't get much more fucked up than that. It caused an uproar, that's for sure.

However, it wasn't until Em's second album, The Marshall Mathers LP, where he really took the World by storm and became one of the most controversial artist in the history of music. With songs like "Kill You" and "Kim," these are easily two of the most brutal, controversial songs ever made, and you could argue the album as a whole is the most controversial album in rap history. From its violence, to the fact that it got such rave reviews regardless of it make that last sentence 100% true.

All that said, since The Marshall Mathers LP... blah. Eminem hasn't stirred up much controversy, which is what I think hurts your argument most, unfortunately, Numbers. Besides having some "beef" battles with other rap artist and adding some political views in his music... Em hasn't really stirred up any controversy since The Marshall Mathers LP. There was definitely a time though where he was the most controversial artist in music, but it didn't last that long. For the past few years Eminem has simply been a very popular, great musician, instead of a controversial one.

So my advice, Numbers, is to just focus on that 2/3 year period where Eminem ruled the World because of the controversy that surrounded his first two mainstream albums, otherwise there isn't much of an argument to be made on your part.

 

[D-Man]

There was a period of time where Eminem was the most controversial rapper around but overall there have been other rappers/groups that were more controversial. If you aren't even the most controversial rapper of all time then it's hard to be considered the most controversial musician of all time. I can give you a few names that created just as much if not more controversy then Shady.

Ok, let's check them out.

Ice T- The original gangster rapper. He pioneered the gangster rap style in the mid 80's along with Schoolly D. Ice T released 6 in the Mornin in 1986 and it is often regarded as the original gangster rap song. After Ice T, Boogie Down Productions released a gangster rap album and then NWA started to come out and hit the mainstream.

But where was his controversy? Besides his stint with Body Count, his rapping really didn't create a whole lot of "controversy". He was rapping at a time when rap was still trying to bust into the mainstream but wasn't quite there yet. He was an incredible and revolutionary rapper, but controversy never followed that part of his music career.

If we only view his stint with Body Count, THEN we're talkin' controversy. This guy ever had the vice president making speeches about his song "Cop Killer." And as much of a media blitz that it caused, all it did was sell more records for him. However, he isn't MORE controversial than Eminem because Ice-T only put out one album that caused a stir while Eminem dropped four... each of them offending a new breed of people. More on that later.

NWA- Ice T was the originator and then NWA took it to a whole new level. Gangster rap became hip hops most lucrative sub genre mainly due to the success of NWA. Songs like Straight Outta Compton and Fuck Tha Police were huge and caused tons of controversy.

Another GREAT example here. However, I think they fall short beneath Eminem. NWA has racy lyrics and were the first real gangster rap GROUP. their lyrics were very offensive to many people and "Fuck Tha Police" was a song that stirred up the most trouble. However, as I said with Ice-T, one album (and really one song) doesn't make you the "most controversial" musician EVER. Just to reiterate, another great choice but not strong enough.

2 Live Crew- They had their album As Nasty As They Wanna Be banned for a period of time. It became illegal for record stores to sell the album. The case went all the way to the Supreme Court before being overturned. It doesn't get more controversial then that. This was one of the original rap groups to really use a lot of sex in their lyrics. Too Short also deserves a huge mention when it comes to the sexual content of lyrics and bringing it to the mainstream.

Now we're talkin'. There guys were my #2 pick behind Eminem. If I recall correctly, they were the first rap group to get BANNED from venues and from putting out albums. THAT'S controversy. However, the 80's were a very touchy time. Just about anything was being plucked out by the media and being banned or censored. Remember, this was during the same time period when they wanted to start putting the "Parental" labels on albums. 2 Live Crew just had an album with nasty words and phrases on it. You can find that on your garden variety album these days.

Esham- If you haven't heard of Esham, think Eminem on crack. His records were so fucked up that he was accused of satanism. He rapped about death, drugs, evil, sex, and he did it to an extreme that hasn't really been matched.

Never heard of the guy. I guess that's how controversial he is.

Tupac Shakur- From his music, to his public persona, to his death, no rapper was more controversial then Tupac and I'm surprised no one in the competition picked him. He has countless controversial songs from Brenda's Got a Baby, to I Get Around, to Holler if Ya Hear Me, and Hit em Up; his albums were full of controversy. Outside of his music Pac was also arrested numerous times, and served time in jail after he was convicted of sexual abuse. He was the first rapper to have a number one album while in jail. His feud with Biggie started the biggest rivalry in hip hop history. His death is still unsolved and had tons of controversy around it, and still does to this day. No offense to Eminem but nothing he has done or ever could do would make him more controversial then Tupac.

My #3 pick for this thing. Tupac was very controversial, but nowhere near the level of Eminem. His songs were nothing short of beautiful poetry and he spoke from his heart and was never afraid to say what was on his mind. But his personal jail record doesn't make him controversial... it makes him a danger to society. Did he offend multiple Civil rights Activists and groups, mainstream pop stars, political figures, and your everyday audience all at the same time for 7 straight years? Was Tupac sued by his own family? Trust me, I hear what you're saying by his involvement in the East Coast/West Coast feud. But that didn't stem from HIM... it stemmed from Death Row records and influence from all the artists on that label.

But, like I said, incredible choice.

Guys like Esham, Too Short, and Ice T that I mentioned above were all huge influences on Eminem as a growing artist and is a big reason why he is so controversial. Em has probably surpassed some and may be on equal footing with others when it comes to being controversial but no way is he the most controversial rapper ever, let alone the most controversial musician.

Eminem started controversy with everyone from Christina Aguilara to Elton friggin John. He broke the boundaries of freedom of speech on his albums by offending gay rights groups, mothers against violence, and every audience that saw him on an awards show during his peak. He was controversial from the day his first album dropped, considering the fact that he was on Dr. Dre’s label just after the backlash of Suge Knight’s Death Row Records incident.

There really is no comparison.

 

[a0161613]

There was a period of time where Eminem was the most controversial rapper around but overall there have been other rappers/groups that were more controversial. If you aren't even the most controversial rapper of all time then it's hard to be considered the most controversial musician of all time. I can give you a few names that created just as much if not more controversy then Shady.

Ice T- The original gangster rapper. He pioneered the gangster rap style in the mid 80's along with Schoolly D. Ice T released 6 in the Mornin in 1986 and it is often regarded as the original gangster rap song. After Ice T, Boogie Down Productions released a gangster rap album and then NWA started to come out and hit the mainstream.

NWA- Ice T was the originator and then NWA took it to a whole new level. Gangster rap became hip hops most lucrative sub genre mainly due to the success of NWA. Songs like Straight Outta Compton and Fuck Tha Police were huge and caused tons of controversy.

2 Live Crew- They had their album As Nasty As They Wanna Be banned for a period of time. It became illegal for record stores to sell the album. The case went all the way to the Supreme Court before being overturned. It doesn't get more controversial then that. This was one of the original rap groups to really use a lot of sex in their lyrics. Too Short also deserves a huge mention when it comes to the sexual content of lyrics and bringing it to the mainstream.

Esham- If you haven't heard of Esham, think Eminem on crack. His records were so fucked up that he was accused of satanism. He rapped about death, drugs, evil, sex, and he did it to an extreme that hasn't really been matched.

Tupac Shakur- From his music, to his public persona, to his death, no rapper was more controversial then Tupac and I'm surprised no one in the competition picked him. He has countless controversial songs from Brenda's Got a Baby, to I Get Around, to Holler if Ya Hear Me, and Hit em Up; his albums were full of controversy. Outside of his music Pac was also arrested numerous times, and served time in jail after he was convicted of sexual abuse. He was the first rapper to have a number one album while in jail. His feud with Biggie started the biggest rivalry in hip hop history. His death is still unsolved and had tons of controversy around it, and still does to this day. No offense to Eminem but nothing he has done or ever could do would make him more controversial then Tupac.

Guys like Esham, Too Short, and Ice T that I mentioned above were all huge influences on Eminem as a growing artist and is a big reason why he is so controversial. Em has probably surpassed some and may be on equal footing with others when it comes to being controversial but no way is he the most controversial rapper ever, let alone the most controversial musician.

What makes Eminem different is that he made and continues to have a successful career. Tupac's music got himself killed which was not a smart career choice. And I will trust you on the other two as I could not pick them out of a line up.

But I accept Ice T and particularly NWA as a pick for sure - I would be stupid to reject this given how much of an influence Dr Dre was on Eminem getting to where he is today.

Just like Michael Jackson, the music is absolutely influential. The talent shines through.

But for all the success that the NWA had, Eminem matched and then surpassed it with his two first albums. He had more worldwide success than any other rapper.

As JMT rightfully points out, this was his most controversial. He hadn't even reached his peak as a musician. One point I feel I should make is that while West Coast gang culture and all its cultural effects were summed up by NWA's works, they are mild compared to what Eminem put on his first two albums.

I feel that Eminem is a solid, strong choice, Numbers.

Em's first album, The Slim Shady LP, featured a song titled "97' Bonnie & Clyde" that revolved around Eminem telling his daughter the story of how he killed her mother. I mean, man... it doesn't get much more fucked up than that. It caused an uproar, that's for sure.

This was a screwed up track on an album made up of them. “97 Bonnie & Clyde”, “Guilty Conscience”, I think this is what puts him up over the rest. It's this kind of thing that hits with the mainstream. He was able to drag up all the crap that he had been through whilst growing up and put into lyrical form. Not many artists would be brave enough to put that sort of song on their first album.

However, it wasn't until Em's second album, The Marshall Mathers LP, where he really took the World by storm and became one of the most controversial artist in the history of music. With songs like "Kill You" and "Kim," these are easily two of the most brutal, controversial songs ever made, and you could argue the album as a whole is the most controversial album in rap history. From its violence, to the fact that it got such rave reviews regardless of it make that last sentence 100% true.

And from that album, one of his most successful tracks, Stan. It has been critically acclaimed and many consider it a high point - I'd agree.

He manages to take a beautiful Dido song and turns it into a sorry tale of obsession, anger and murder. This was heavily censored by MTV, cutting several lines of lyrics as well as scenes from the video.

For a song that was released and granted with much success, there are fewer more controversial songs than this in music history. This was one of two Eminem tracks in Rolling Stones Greatest 500 Songs of All Time.

All that said, since The Marshall Mathers LP... blah. Eminem hasn't stirred up much controversy, which is what I think hurts your argument most, unfortunately, Numbers. Besides having some "beef" battles with other rap artist and adding some political views in his music... Em hasn't really stirred up any controversy since The Marshall Mathers LP. There was definitely a time though where he was the most controversial artist in music, but it didn't last that long. For the past few years Eminem has simply been a very popular, great musician, instead of a controversial one.

I'd agree to an extent. Slim Shady was the controversial character of his work and the third album "The Eminem Show" saw an end to that antagonisation with relatively restrained lyrics. But he was never been afraid to go after targets. Even this album saw tracks that were both politically motivated ("Mosh" was an anti war track) and designed to antagonise ("Just Lose It" was a pointed attack at Michael Jackson which cover his child molestation issues, plastic surgery and general character).

So my advice, Numbers, is to just focus on that 2/3 year period where Eminem ruled the World because of the controversy that surrounded his first two mainstream albums, otherwise there isn't much of an argument to be made on your part.

I plan to because I don’t see anyone who embraced it quite in the way that he did it. Certainly no one has had the success of the back of it either. Sure NWA did great but Eminem took it to a whole another level. He managed to combine the two. Of course Manson does this as well but he will not be remembered for his music career, but more his look whilst being involved with it. And Jacko had the vast majority of his success before the controversy really hit the fan.

For the first half of his career, Eminem courted more controversy but he nailed the balance with accepting the storm of criticism and releasing great music. He was named Billboard’s Artist of the Decade for that very reason, because the music shone through.

 

[Big Sexy]

But where was his controversy? Besides his stint with Body Count, his rapping really didn't create a whole lot of "controversy". He was rapping at a time when rap was still trying to bust into the mainstream but wasn't quite there yet. He was an incredible and revolutionary rapper, but controversy never followed that part of his music career.

If we only view his stint with Body Count, THEN we're talkin' controversy. This guy ever had the vice president making speeches about his song "Cop Killer." And as much of a media blitz that it caused, all it did was sell more records for him. However, he isn't MORE controversial than Eminem because Ice-T only put out one album that caused a stir while Eminem dropped four... each of them offending a new breed of people. More on that later.

I agree Eminem was more controversial. I was more using Ice T because he was an influence to Eminem and the style Ice T created really allowed the next group I looked at, NWA, to shine. His time with Body Count was extremely controversial but don't discredit his first couple albums. The things on the records may sound like nothing today but back then it was unheard of. His first album "Rhyme Pays" was the first to carry a parental advisory label.

Another GREAT example here. However, I think they fall short beneath Eminem. NWA has racy lyrics and were the first real gangster rap GROUP. their lyrics were very offensive to many people and "Fuck Tha Police" was a song that stirred up the most trouble. However, as I said with Ice-T, one album (and really one song) doesn't make you the "most controversial" musician EVER. Just to reiterate, another great choice but not strong enough.

They do suffer in terms of longevity but again the things they were rapping about were unheard of. Fuck tha Police basically became the anthem for the LA riots that happened 4 years after its release.

Now we're talkin'. There guys were my #2 pick behind Eminem. If I recall correctly, they were the first rap group to get BANNED from venues and from putting out albums. THAT'S controversy. However, the 80's were a very touchy time. Just about anything was being plucked out by the media and being banned or censored. Remember, this was during the same time period when they wanted to start putting the "Parental" labels on albums. 2 Live Crew just had an album with nasty words and phrases on it. You can find that on your garden variety album these days.

Again though it was really a first of its kind. Everything Eminem has in his lyrics controversy wise has basically been done in one way another with the exception of maybe a couple songs like '97 Bonnie and Clyde and Kim.

Never heard of the guy. I guess that's how controversial he is.

Eminem certainly heard of him as he was one of the main influences to Em's style. His influence is heard heavily on basically all of Eminem's most fucked up songs.

My #3 pick for this thing. Tupac was very controversial, but nowhere near the level of Eminem. His songs were nothing short of beautiful poetry and he spoke from his heart and was never afraid to say what was on his mind.

While all of that is true it doesn't mean that his songs weren't also controversial. Here are some of his songs that caused plenty of controversy.

Brenda's Got a Baby- 12 year old girl gets molested by her cousin and becomes pregnant. She has the baby on her bathroom floor and proceeds to toss it in the garbage. She ends up taking the baby out of the garbage and becomes a crack dealer. Then she becomes a prostitute and gets killed. Controversial enough?

Trapped- An entire song dedicated to police brutality

Hit em Up- Probably the most controversial diss track ever made. Part of the biggest feud in hip hop history.

But his personal jail record doesn't make him controversial... it makes him a danger to society.

A big name musician going to jail for a crime he claims he didn't commit is most definitely controversial. He was accused of raping of someone that's something that can't just be shrugged off as nothing.

Did he offend multiple Civil rights Activists and groups, mainstream pop stars, political figures, and your everyday audience all at the same time for 7 straight years? Was Tupac sued by his own family?

A kid in Texas shot a state trooper and claimed it was because he was influenced by the theme of police brutality in Pac's first album. This caused Dan Quayle to say that kind of music had no place being released.

In 1992 Pac rapped at an outdoor music festival and when an argument ensued about negative comments he had made earlier Pac pulled out a gun and cocked it. The gun then fell to the ground and when someone tried to pick it up a bullet was dislodged. This bullet killed a 6 year old boy riding his bike nearby.

Then there was his sexual assault charge and jail term that was brought up earlier. When Pac got shot in 1994 a lot of controversy was caused because he blamed Biggie and Diddy for the incident saying they set him up. This incident would start the biggest rivalry in the history of rap and possibly music period.

His murder case and all of the details surrounding it is still talked about today and his death is one of the most controversial in music history.

Obviously all of this is just nothing in comparison to calling a few pop stars ****s and pissing off some gay people for saying the word "******" too much

Trust me, I hear what you're saying by his involvement in the East Coast/West Coast feud. But that didn't stem from HIM... it stemmed from Death Row records and influence from all the artists on that label.

The East Coast vs West Coast feud would have been shit if it was not for Tupac and his hatred of Biggie. The rivalry didn't become huge until Suge bailed Pac out of jail in exchange for signing to Death Row records. There was some hostility before that but Pac vs Biggie took center stage and caused the coastal rivalry to take off. West vs East without Pac and BIG would be like the 80' Lakers/Celtics rivalry without Magic and Bird.

Eminem started controversy with everyone from Christina Aguilara to Elton friggin John.

Controversy with BIG and multiple other east coast rappers > Christina, Britney, and any other pop star he has offended over the years.

And Eminem and Elton John are actually friends. There was never really any dispute or controversy between them at all.

He broke the boundaries of freedom of speech on his albums by offending gay rights groups, mothers against violence, and every audience that saw him on an awards show during his peak.

Em has jack shit on Pac when it comes to breaking boundaries and freedom of speech. Almost everything Em did controversy wise had been done before. He wasn't the first rapper to call people "******s" or rap about drugs or have violent lyrics.

There really is no comparison.

That's laughable. Outside of his first two albums, which again weren't the first controversial albums ever, his music hasn't really been all that controversial. And please don't tell me little jokes and jabs taken at pop stars is major controversy. Yes, he has gotten civil rights groups mad at him and yes he has some fucked up songs but the controversy he has created in his career is not on the level of Tupac's. Many other rappers and rap as a whole has been criticized by civil rights groups and parents for its lyrical content. Em took it to a higher level then some but he is definitely not as controversial as Pac.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

Eminem is a controversial guy, hell he even recognizes true controversy at it's finest.

Spoiler

[YOUTUBE]2AisONDi4dE[/YOUTUBE]

http://www.metrolyrics.com/the-way-i-am-lyrics-eminem.html

Here's the lyrics for the hearing impaired. Em references Marilyn being blamed for the shootings at Columbine while rapping about how fucked up society is. Manson was the center of this controversy, so controversial that Em put it in one of his most popular songs.

 

[Furyof5]

Eminem certainly did cause a bunch of controvsery, and as Eric Bishoff always says "Controversy creates cash". But I have another big one that was very controversial in his time.

Jim Morrison: The man was always on drugs out of his mind and did insane things like piss into the crowd and I think at one point beat off into the crowd. He caused a bunch of controversy and I think was arrested a few times for it as well.

 

[a0161613]

Yeah I read about that while I was reading up on it. It seems they are on good terms. It wasn't a controversial performance. Em also performed "Stan" with Elton John at another major awards ceremony; the Grammys.

That performance was protested against by GLAAD (The Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation). Wiki sums this up very well:

Eminem performed with Elton John at the 43rd Grammy Awards ceremony in 2001;[39] the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD), an organization that perceived Eminem's lyrics to be homophobic, condemned the openly gay John's decision to perform with Eminem.[40] Entertainment Weekly put it on its end-of-the-decade, "best-of" list, saying, "It was the hug heard 'round the world. Eminem, under fire for homophobic lyrics, shared the stage with a gay icon for a performance of "Stan" that would have been memorable in any context."[41] On February 21, the day of the ceremony, GLAAD held a protest outside the Staples Center, the venue where the Grammy ceremony was held

So it was both significant and controversial.

 

[Big Sexy]

Yeah I read about that while I was reading up on it. It seems they are on good terms. It wasn't a controversial performance. Em also performed "Stan" with Elton John at another major awards ceremony; the Grammys.

That performance was protested against by GLAAD (The Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation). Wiki sums this up very well:



So it was both significant and controversial.

D Man said that Eminem started controversy with Elton John and that was what I was disputing. The performance itself was only controversial because GLAAD was pissed off at Elton John for performing with Em. It was more GLAAD overreacting to something for no reason then anything else,

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Best pick out of the four artists/groups chosen, Numbers. As I already stated in The Cage, controversial doesn't have to mean offensive; all controversial has to mean is that your music generate lots and lots of discussion. Eminem proved that rap isn't just an African-American genre of music, and that its topics don't have to center on the struggles of African-Americans.

 

[D-Man]

D Man said that Eminem started controversy with Elton John and that was what I was disputing. The performance itself was only controversial because GLAAD was pissed off at Elton John for performing with Em. It was more GLAAD overreacting to something for no reason then anything else,

I misworded my post. This is what I meant.

Eminem caused drama with Elton John meant that Eminem teamed up with Elton John to cause drama. So even though they became friends afterwards it actually caused more backlash with GLAAD.

He was just a magnet for controversy.

 

[a0161613]

D Man said that Eminem started controversy with Elton John and that was what I was disputing. The performance itself was only controversial because GLAAD was pissed off at Elton John for performing with Em. It was more GLAAD overreacting to something for no reason then anything else,

I misworded my post. This is what I meant.

Eminem caused drama with Elton John meant that Eminem teamed up with Elton John to cause drama. So even though they became friends afterwards it actually caused more backlash with GLAAD.

He was just a magnet for controversy.

He could have teamed up with anyone and GLAAD would have protested as his lyrics and videos had riled them anyways. The fact that is Elton John who is openly gay, is what rankled them a little bit more.

It was such a great performance. But the person he chose to perform it with is what made it such a significant and important moment in the musical history of this decade.

Best pick out of the four artists/groups chosen, Numbers. As I already stated in The Cage, controversial doesn't have to mean; all controversial has to mean is that your music generate lots and lots of discussion. Eminem proved that rap isn't just an African-American genre of music, and that its topics don't have to center on the struggles of African-Americans.

Thanks mate. I do see his success as a factor in this as he truly brought the genre of rap into the mainstream.

 

[Big Sexy]

he truly brought the genre of rap into the mainstream.

Rap was already in the mainstream well before Eminem came along. Em gave the white suburban consumer something to relate to as he was one of the first successful white rappers but to say he brought rap into the mainstream is completely false.

 

[a0161613]

To say he didn't bring affect the mainstream is bordering on rubbish because his all-around sales destroy everything his competitors/predecessors achieved.

His first two albums were 4 times and 9 times Platinum. NWA kinda got close with their first albums but they didn't get the worldwide success off the back of it.

This is when he was at his most controversial and antagonising and he was at his most successful.

First successful white rapper? Really? Name the competition, I beg you.

 

[D-Man]

To say he didn't bring affect the mainstream is bordering on rubbish because his all-around sales destroy everything his competitors/predecessors achieved.

His first two albums were 4 times and 9 times Platinum. NWA kinda got close with their first albums but they didn't get the worldwide success off the back of it.

This is when he was at his most controversial and antagonising and he was at his most successful.

First successful white rapper? Really? Name the competition, I beg you.

I'm with Big Sexy here. This doesn't mean past rap artists weren't mainstream. You're saying Biggie wasn't mainstream? Tu-Pac? Beastie Boys? LL Cool J? All mainstream artists.

That has nothing to do with his controversy.

 

[a0161613]

The Beastie Boys adopted rap stylings and adapted it into their music. Biggie and Tupac, even Jay Z and Snoop Dogg, while very successful, didn't achieve the sales or exposure that Em has. Until he came about and destroyed the sterotypes, rap was still seen as an African-American genre of music.

Tdigs put it very well:

Eminem proved that rap isn't just an African-American genre of music, and that its topics don't have to center on the struggles of African-Americans

That's what I am trying to get at.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

If you really want to split hairs, Elvis Presley and then afterwards the Rolling Stones were the original musicians who came under a firestorm of controversy for being white artists who had taken so many elements from black music and repackaged them as "safe White-American Music." It was a massive controversy for a long time, and Eminem even says it in his song "Without Me:"

"No I'm not the first king of controversy, I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley to do black music so selfishly and used it to get myself wealthy..."

So before we go and annoint Em as the original white rapper, bear in mind that Elvis and the Stones were toying with this a long time ago, and that The Beastie Boys sold MILLIONS of albums - as did Rage Against the Machine - by being white guys who rapped. Add Everlast / House of Pain to the list as well.

 

[Big Sexy]

To say he didn't bring affect the mainstream is bordering on rubbish because his all-around sales destroy everything his competitors/predecessors achieved.

His first two albums were 4 times and 9 times Platinum. NWA kinda got close with their first albums but they didn't get the worldwide success off the back of it.

No one is denying his success as a rapper and I never said he didn't affect the mainstream (learn to read) but the rap genre was already firmly in the mainstream before Eminem came out and that is an undeniable fact.

11 of the top 20 highest selling rap albums ever came out before Eminem released the Slim Shady LP.

First successful white rapper? Really? Name the competition, I beg you.

The fuck are you talking about? I said Eminem was one of the first successful white rappers and he was. The only other really successful ones were the Beastie Boys and, even though he was fucking horrible, Vanilla Ice's first album did go 7X platinum.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

If you really want to split hairs, Elvis Presley and then afterwards the Rolling Stones were the original musicians who came under a firestorm of controversy for being white artists who had taken so many elements from black music and repackaged them as "safe White-American Music." It was a massive controversy for a long time, and Eminem even says it in his song "Without Me:"



So before we go and annoint Em as the original white rapper, bear in mind that Elvis and the Stones were toying with this a long time ago, and that The Beastie Boys sold MILLIONS of albums - as did Rage Against the Machine - by being white guys who rapped. Add Everlast / House of Pain to the list as well.

Lulz...IC mentioning Rage Against The Machine in the same breath as The Beastie Boys only strengthens my argument that their music was geared to a rebellious, middle-class teenagers and young adults.

IC, here's one questions I do want to ask you, though: were Blues and R&B ever as socially and politically conscious as rap? The only R&B artists that comes to mind right now is Marvin Gaye. That Eminem could gain respectability in such a genre as rap is much more of a feat than what Elvis Presley, The Rolling Stones, or even The Beatles had to overcome to gain acceptance.

Also, anyone responding to this post: DON'T construe my argument here as one that claims Eminem to be better than the three artists/bands I mentioned. I'm just saying that Eminem's acceptance is much more remarkable than that of Elvis, The Beatles, and The Rolling Stones; I know Eminem hasn't sold the records or influenced as much people as the three aforementioned artists/groups have.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Lulz...IC mentioning Rage Against The Machine in the same breath as The Beastie Boys only strengthens my argument that their music was geared to a rebellious, middle-class teenagers and young adults.

Hahahaha, good stuff right there. True - I attended high school and even middle school when these bands were really at their peak. I was a Freshman in high school when "Bulls on Parade" came out, and it was hot shit.

Conversely, I was a junior when Eminem hit. It was a massive topic.

IC, here's one questions I do want to ask you, though: were Blues and R&B ever as socially and politically conscious as rap? The only R&B artists that comes to mind right now is Marvin Gaye.

This is such a good question it's almost worthy of its own thread. I would say, in some circles, almost. Never quite. Rap in many foms is ultra-political. But the list sure doesn't stop with Marvin Gaye.

Stevie Wonder, easilly my all time fave R&B / Soul artist of all time, was very politically and socially conscious. The entire "Innervisions" album was social. Lee Dorsey is another, with songs like "Who's Gonna Help a Brother Get Further."

Also, check out the album "A Change Is Gonna Come: The Voice of Black America 1964-1973." It's a compilation of artists such as the great Otis Redding, The Spinners, and The Temptations, among others. It was work such as that as well as the work of Little Richard and James Brown that helped lay the ground work for rap to leave Jamaica and Harlem and make it to the main stream. TLC was uber-social and they were a top selling band in the 90's as rap transitions away from political and social consciousness and became more and more about possessions and violence.

That Eminem could gain respectability in such a genre as rap is much more of a feat than what Elvis Presley, The Rolling Stones, or even The Beatles had to overcome to gain acceptance.

You think so? I mean, kindly remove the Beatles from this discussion - they were as white as they come. But Elvis and the Stones got a shitstorm for "stealing" black music.

I'm glad you showed up, Tdigs. Debates with you are always interesting, though I think we're more on the same page than we think.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

He became known for his controversy and it follows him to this day. Drugs, sex, crime, politics, gang wars. The staple of anyone who wants to be controversial. He has been involved in it all because of his refusal to compromise and back away from any topic.

The thing is, all of this was done before in the rap game.

NWA was all over this type of material in the early 90's, they rapped about drugs, sex, crime and all other types of things.

The discovery of Eminem is in large part due to Dr. Dre, and original member of NWA who has been credited with the discovery of Eminem and with much of his early success.

The only thing that separates the the two is that Eminem is white, and as stated before he certainly wasn't the first white rapper. He may have been the first white rapper to adopt the controversial style, but it's a style that's been around long before Eminem ever stepped onto the scene; and while his music may be controversial it's all been done before. His controversy only stems from his lyrics, other than what he used to rap about he's not actually that controversial.

So while Eminem certainly had a few controversial years under his belt, it was controversy that had been done before, and the fact that Dr.Dre of NWA was his main promoter I can't help but give more of the credit to Dre and the NWA that I can give to Eminem. Having Dre at the helm for most of Eminem's controversy you can't help but connect those dots and credit Dre for much of Eminem's controversy.

 

[a0161613]

The thing is, all of this was done before in the rap game.

NWA was all over this type of material in the early 90's, they rapped about drugs, sex, crime and all other types of things.

But SSC, I ask this. NWA rapped about black and specifically West Coat culture, but it was specific and unique to their situation. Eminem took the topic of violence and sex and made it more of a story. His style also made it much more grotesque. His songs could be laugh-out-loud entertaining (“My Name Is”) and then he could have a track like “97 Bonnie & Clyde” which is straight up as fierce as anything NWA put out. His singles demonstrated this perfectly.

The discovery of Eminem is in large part due to Dr. Dre, and original member of NWA who has been credited with the discovery of Eminem and with much of his early success.

I’ll be honest. You mention everything I’ve been saying but by dismissing his own influence in his rise to fame, you do the guy a huge disservice. Yes, Dre played a huge part in him getting signed as well as the production on his early work. I’d be stupid to say he was anything but.

The only thing that separates the the two is that Eminem is white, and as stated before he certainly wasn't the first white rapper. He may have been the first white rapper to adopt the controversial style, but it's a style that's been around long before Eminem ever stepped onto the scene; and while his music may be controversial it's all been done before. His controversy only stems from his lyrics, other than what he used to rap about he's not actually that controversial.

Eminem is one of very few white rappers and his success more than matches what anyone has achieved in the rap genre full stop, no matter what colour of their skin. It is a simple fact that Em and the controversy that followed him doesn’t just come from his violent lyrics, which is what NWA stood for. Everything about the Slim Shady persona was controversial, including the lyrics but also the videos, his concerts and his appearances.

Dre was not behind Slim Shady, he didn’t create that character. Dre had a big part to play in getting him known but Slim Shady, Eminem was the one who brought thr controversy with the storm that was created by the first two albums.

So while Eminem certainly had a few controversial years under his belt, it was controversy that had been done before, and the fact that Dr.Dre of NWA was his main promoter I can't help but give more of the credit to Dre and the NWA that I can give to Eminem. Having Dre at the helm for most of Eminem's controversy you can't help but connect those dots and credit Dre for much of Eminem's controversy.

Firstly, Eminem has been just as influential himself. 50 Cent, D12 and many more have all worked with him and tried to adopt his controversial characteristics.

But Eminem has his own unique vocal style which remains to this day. Dre just pushed it and gave it a platform that the masses flocked to. The style, which never belonged to one rapper but more was a combination of many. (Em was credited for his desire to listen to other MC’s and as a result, he created his own voice.) His writing ability pretty much destroys the competition too. The material on his first two albums in particular was incredible stuff.

So don't give Dre too much credit. Eminem was more successful than NWA was, as a whole or individually. And he took their controversy onto the next level by simply writing songs that weren't about black, gang and West Coast culture. He wrote about killing the mother of his child, about his mother and other celebrities. Eminem, Slim Shady in his first two albums brought more rage and anger than NWA did with Straight Outta Compton and the public lapped it up more as well.

Eminem was going to be star with or without Dre.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

But SSC, I ask this. NWA rapped about black and specifically West Coat culture, but it was specific and unique to their situation. Eminem took the topic of violence and sex and made it more of a story. His style also made it much more grotesque. His songs could be laugh-out-loud entertaining (“My Name Is”) and then he could have a track like “97 Bonnie & Clyde” which is straight up as fierce as anything NWA put out. His singles demonstrated this perfectly.

While Eminem took the violence, sex and drug use and related to himself, it still doesn't change the fact that all those things had been rapped about before.

NWA also had a comic side to them, they weren't strictly about just "Fuck the Police", they had a lighthearted side as well. Here's a perfect example, the track a Bitch Iz A Bitch. It's definitely a comical song, and you can tell that Eminem was influenced by such songs.

I’ll be honest. You mention everything I’ve been saying but by dismissing his own influence in his rise to fame, you do the guy a huge disservice. Yes, Dre played a huge part in him getting signed as well as the production on his early work. I’d be stupid to say he was anything but.

I'm not saying that Eminem isn't a very talented and successful artist, because he is; but he was more influenced by the controversy of previous artists. I mean who has Eminem really had an influence on? He's more taken others influences and adapted them to his style, and while his lyrics where controversial, there not so controversial anymore.

I'm not taking anything away from his talent, but he Dre played a big part in Eminems early success, which also happened to be when he was at his peak in controversy.

Eminem is one of very few white rappers and his success more than matches what anyone has achieved in the rap genre full stop, no matter what colour of their skin. It is a simple fact that Em and the controversy that followed him doesn’t just come from his violent lyrics, which is what NWA stood for. Everything about the Slim Shady persona was controversial, including the lyrics but also the videos, his concerts and his appearances.

Is being white what makes Eminem so controversial?

Eminem has toned down a lot of his controversial lyrics in his later years, people don't buy his albums because of controversial content, they buy his albums because he is a very skilled rap artist.

Dre was not behind Slim Shady, he didn’t create that character. Dre had a big part to play in getting him known but Slim Shady, Eminem was the one who brought thr controversy with the storm that was created by the first two albums.

He still had an influence on Eminem, and is still partially responsible for success of Eminem. Dre produced both of those albums, and the producer always has a major impact, especially when it's a rookie album, and the producer was in the most controversial rap group of all time.

Firstly, Eminem has been just as influential himself. 50 Cent, D12 and many more have all worked with him and tried to adopt his controversial characteristics.

50 cent has lead a much more controversial lifestyle than Eminem, and arguably is more controversial than Eminem. 50 and Em are totally different artist with different styles.

But Eminem has his own unique vocal style which remains to this day. Dre just pushed it and gave it a platform that the masses flocked to. The style, which never belonged to one rapper but more was a combination of many. (Em was credited for his desire to listen to other MC’s and as a result, he created his own voice.) His writing ability pretty much destroys the competition too. The material on his first two albums in particular was incredible stuff.

See, a unique vocal may make him more recognizable, but it doesn't do anything for controversy.

His writing and rapping abilities are both great, but it just goes back to controversial lyrics being the only thing really controversial about him.

So don't give Dre too much credit. Eminem was more successful than NWA was, as a whole or individually. And he took their controversy onto the next level by simply writing songs that weren't about black, gang and West Coast culture. He wrote about killing the mother of his child, about his mother and other celebrities. Eminem, Slim Shady in his first two albums brought more rage and anger than NWA did with Straight Outta Compton and the public lapped it up more as well.

He may be overall more successful than the NWA was, but NWA still did it first.

Eminem controversy was strictly lyrical, something that was brought about and polarized originally by the NWA.

The fact that Dr.Dre, the most successful musician to come out of the NWA is responsible for finding, and producing Eminem's most successful albums speaks volumes to the influence that the NWA and Dre had on Eminem.

I'm not taking anything away from his success, or his talent, but his controversial ways had a major influence from Dre and the NWA.

Eminem was going to be star with or without Dre.

This is all speculation. What we do know is Eminem became a star because or Dr. Dre, sure Em had the abilities, but Dre found him, and who knows if he would have had nearly the amount of success with out the help and production from Dre.

 

[a0161613]

While Eminem took the violence, sex and drug use and related to himself, it still doesn't change the fact that all those things had been rapped about before.

NWA also had a comic side to them, they weren't strictly about just "Fuck the Police", they had a lighthearted side as well. Here's a perfect example, the track a Bitch Iz A Bitch. It's definitely a comical song, and you can tell that Eminem was influenced by such songs.

It's like saying Michael Jackson influenced every subsequent pop and r'n'b singer. It's inevitable.

I'm not saying that Eminem isn't a very talented and successful artist, because he is; but he was more influenced by the controversy of previous artists. I mean who has Eminem really had an influence on? He's more taken others influences and adapted them to his style, and while his lyrics where controversial, there not so controversial anymore.

Are you saying that writing a song like "97 Bonnie and Clyde" wouldn't be controversial now? That's ridiculous.

I'm not taking anything away from his talent, but he Dre played a big part in Eminems early success, which also happened to be when he was at his peak in controversy.

I'm not taking anything away from Dre but I do think you are giving him too much credit.

Is being white what makes Eminem so controversial?

I think it had a part to play. Nobody expected a white rapper to be as great as he was, as angry as he was in his songs. It was something new because the Beasties or Vanilla Ice didn't have the vocal style or writing skills that he had.

Eminem has toned down a lot of his controversial lyrics in his later years, people don't buy his albums because of controversial content, they buy his albums because he is a very skilled rap artist.

The retirement of the Slim Shady character and therefore, Eminem's most controversial "gimmick", did tone down his style but that was because of personal problems that required significant rehab. The skills were there and have been the whole time, even to this day.

By getting over these problems, he now allows his musical skills to shine. Controversy still follows but not to the extent that it did in the Slim Shady years.

He still had an influence on Eminem, and is still partially responsible for success of Eminem. Dre produced both of those albums, and the producer always has a major impact, especially when it's a rookie album, and the producer was in the most controversial rap group of all time.

Yes there is a huge impact and responsibility in the producer and Dre's influence is clear but again, I say you do the guy a disservice because he was going to breakout somehow. Someone was going to spot the rough diamond that he was.

50 cent has lead a much more controversial lifestyle than Eminem and arguably is more controversial than Eminem.

Debatable. Especially as Fiddy is as generic as they come.

50 and Em are totally different artist with different styles.

Different vocally but yeah Fiddy is your standard black rapper. Eminem is a lot of more intelligent with his writing, able to fit his unique style into his music.

See, a unique vocal may make him more recognizable, but it doesn't do anything for controversy.

His vocal stylings are incredibly unique. The unique nature of his sound went a long way to contributing to his breakthrough success.

My point being, that no rapper could do justice to his tracks. "Guilty Conscience" with Dre works so brilliantly because of the juxtaposition of voices.

His brilliance as an artist shines through in this tracks where his voice works with the other vocal. Whether it be Dre, 50 Cent, D12, Dido, Rihanna.

His writing and rapping abilities are both great, but it just goes back to controversial lyrics being the only thing really controversial about him.

The whole Slim Shady "gimmick" was borne out of controversy.

He may be overall more successful than the NWA was, but NWA still did it first.

You are kidding me. You pulled the "it happened first" line. Didn't we just go over this week in the VG debate.

Eminem controversy was strictly lyrical, something that was brought about and polarized originally by the NWA.

Bollocks. MTV censored the video for Stan because of the content in a few scenes. And I am certain it was not the only video but for the success of the track, it was a big thing.

The fact that Dr.Dre, the most successful musician to come out of the NWA is responsible for finding, and producing Eminem's most successful albums speaks volumes to the influence that the NWA and Dre had on Eminem.

He didn't find Eminem, so you are just stretching here.

I'm not taking anything away from his success, or his talent, but his controversial ways had a major influence from Dre and the NWA.

And every major rapper since. So, what does this matter? The controversy surrounding Eminem totally surpassed what NWA achieved because Eminem took it around the world.

This is all speculation. What we do know is Eminem became a star because or Dr. Dre, sure Em had the abilities, but Dre found him, and who knows if he would have had nearly the amount of success with out the help and production from Dre.

Dre didn't find him! He helped him, a lot for sure, but this has nothing to do with his controversy. Em drove that himself.