ECW Regional Final - Sabu & RVD vs. Harlem Heat

Discussion in '3rd Tag Team Tournament (2009)' started by Uncle Sam, Oct 29, 2009.

?

You're racist either way.

  1. Sabu/RVD

  2. Harlem Heat

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  1. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    [​IMG]

    Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating! I haven't seen a specimen like this since... that day...

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    ECW Regional Final
    Sabu & Rob Van Dam
    vs.
    Harlem Heat - Booker T & Stevie Ray
     
  2. X

    X RIP Sgt. Michael Paranzino / RIP CM

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    Oh boy, Big Sexy isn't going to be very happy with this draw. Booker T is very underrated, one of the guys that still made WCW watchable towards the end. Stevie Ray was shit.

    That's all I have to say about Harlem Heat here. They're going to lose this match so badly and so quickly, it'll be downright sad. Nevermind that Sabu and RVD could beat Harlem Heat in a regular match, but in ECW, their home territory, with no rules? Harlem Heat will be lucky to leave Philadelphia with their limbs still intact. I give it ten minutes before Sabu is wrapping Booker up in barbed wire while RVD gives him the Van Terminator.

    Easy vote for RVD and Sabu here. For the love of God, vote for them. It's the only logical and rational choice here.
     
  3. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    At first glance, I lean Harlem Heat, but I can very much be convinced otherwise. Let's say I am 52 / 48 in favor of the boys from Harlem. They brought so much to the table - power (Stevie Ray), more power (Booker T) and then Booker's speed and agility.

    On the other hand, RVD and Sabu were such a weird combo. Harlem Heat were "brothers" and RVD / Sabu were two guys who really didn't much like each other but bonded over the desire to win. Sometimes that just works. Booker T could defend himself from the high flying moves, but Stevie Ray would be a sitting duck when these spot monkeys start hitting the ropes.

    Yeah, I'm torn. Earn my vote. Bear in mind that Harlem Heat gets a bonus point just because Stevie Ray once called Hulk Hogan the "n-word."
     
  4. Viola Moonlight

    Viola Moonlight I'm Literally Just Here for WZCW

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    Considering this is the ECW arena, I have no choice but to give my vote by default to the Dub representatives Sabu and Rob Van Dam. Sabu has made a career out of hardcore wrestling and he is definitely in his element here. He alone could take it to the extreme with Stevie and Booker. If Harlem try to go more to the wrestling side, you better believe RVD will be the one to match them in his skills.

    No matter what strategy Harlem Heat use, RVD and Sabu will probably grab some Kendo Sticks to stop any momentum HH may have. So, RVD and Sabu get my vote. Again... if this wasn't the Dub rules, expect Harlem Heat to be somewhat of the favourites.
     
  5. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    So Sabu and RVD are gods in ECW, and Harlem Heat bring a ton of power to the table...This could be interesting.

    RVD and Sabu can easily hang with just about anyone in the hardcore environment, and it's a good thing they can take all of the power moves that the Heat dish out. Sabu will be broken and beaten, but RVD will be able to pull the win over either opponent...
     
  6. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    Harlem Heat wins this and it isn't as close as people think. The "ECW Advantage" is the biggest load of bullshit I have ever heard. How hard is it to pick up weapons and hit people with them? It seems like a simple enough concept to me. Harlem Heat was billed as a team of thugs from Harlem. I'm sure they would have no trouble going into the ECW environment and succeeding.

    Harlem Heat has defeated teams like Sting and Luger, the Steiner Brothers, and the Blue Bloods. If you want to give the argument that they never beat any "extreme teams" they have defeated Public Enemy and Ian and Axl Rotten. RVD and Sabu were together for a couple years, traded the tag titles a couple times with the Dudley Boyz, and that was it.

    RVD and Sabu can fly around the ring all they want. Once they get caught they will be demolished. Stevie Ray might not be the most polished wrestler, but he knows how to beat people up. You give him some weapons and tell him there's no rules, I'm sure he will get the job done. Booker T is the best wrestler in this match. He is the Bret Hart to Stevie Ray's Jim Neidhart. His power and speed is a lethal combination.

    Let's also not forget that Harlem Heat has always had a manager in their corner, sometimes two. From Sensational Sherri, to Col Robert Parker, to Jacqueline, and finally that big ass body building chick Midnight. They always had back up in their corner if needed.

    If that wasn't enough to convince you then surely this is.

    [YOUTUBE]a1o82BVKFp8[/YOUTUBE]

    If that isn't extremely hilariousthen I don't know what is.
     
    gd likes this.
  7. Hyorinmaru

    Hyorinmaru Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens

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    In my mind there's more to it than just picking up weapons and hitting people with them. RVD and Sabu have what I am calling ECW chemistry in the fact that they could pick an opponent and tear him limb from limb with those weapons while working great as a tag team
    correct me if I'm wrong but they beat all those teams in WCW. I'm not taking anything away from HH but to say they beat Public Enemy and Ian and Axl when those matches took took place in WCW isn't much (You also left out the part where Public Enemy beat HH first).
    you're saying that likes it's nothing. To beat the Dudley's even once in ECW is something to be Extremely proud of, but the fact that they did it more than once makes them one of the best ECW tag teams ever
    I don't see either RVD or Sabu getting caught though. Not only do they know how to use weapons they know how to stay away from them when other people have them
    you must be forgetting about Fonzie. Yeah he night get his ass handed to him by either Booker, Stevie or Whoever they have in their corner but he would be enough to distract all 3 of them giving RVD & Sabu the win
    it wasn't
    funny but I'm still voting RVD & Sabu
     
  8. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    How exactly do you pick people apart with weapons? You have a chair and hit the person in the dome with it. You have a table and you throw someone threw it. You have a kendo stick and you beat the living shit out of someone with it. There isn't a lot to it at all.


    They beat PE in WCW and the Rotten's in GWF. Maybe not the best argument but at least it shows they have had success against other ECW teams.

    I'll take the greatest WCW team of all time over the greatest ECW team any day. I could care less where the match is.

    Sabu knows how to stay away from weapons? Have you seen the scars on his body? The man has taken more punishment then a 13 year olds dick after discovering *********ion. Some was self inflicted yes, but a lot was him getting the shit kicked out of him.

    Sensational Sherri 10000000X greater then Bill Alfonso as a manager.
     
  9. X

    X RIP Sgt. Michael Paranzino / RIP CM

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    Oh come on BS, Sherri? She was a raggedy old hag by the time she was managing Harlem Heat, it was like watching a drag queen past her prime hobble down to the ring. Fonzie was downright dangerous, he'd routinely get involved in matches and start throwing chairs around.

    It's not hard to use weapons, you're right, but you cannot deny the distinct advantage here. This is ECW, the place where Sabu and RVD made their names for themselves and are beloved legends, these are two guys that have fought next to each other and against each other dozens and dozens of times, they know more about wrestling in ECW than Harlem Heat could hope to learn. The second Sabu starts pulling out some barbed wire, Stevie and Booker are going to start shaking in their boots. They won't know what to do.

    Not to mention they're just flat out a better team. Far more entertaining, far better matches, better promos, literally every category you could judge a team by, RVD and Sabu were better. Harlem Heat were the top dogs in one of the most embarrassingly bad tag team divisions in wrestling history. Their primary competition for years comprised of the fucking Nasty Boys and the American Males. Not exactly impressive.

    Tell you what, if you can find me one single solitary Harlem Heat match as good as this one, maybe I'll listen to the argument for Harlem Heat. Maybe.



     
  10. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    ^^ That's the end of the argument...There's really no argument for Harlem Heat anymore.

    As far as Sherri v. Fonzie (to avoid the infraction), there's no argument. Col. Parker comes down and takes Sherri away, and then Fonzie's whistle pisses Booker and Stevie off so much they snap, and divert their attention away from their opponents. RVD only needs a small opening, and Sabu could use anything to take over a match...
     
  11. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    She might have been a raggedy old hag, but she was effective. And I wouldn't consider a 150 pound man running around, blowing a whistle dangerous.
    They can pull out all the barbed wire they want. When have you ever seen Harlem Heat shaking in their boots? They are two tough motherfuckers and will not be intimidated by anything RVD and Sabu can throw at them.
    I'll give you better matches. Entertainment wise, it is a lot easier to entertain when you are using weapons in all of your matches. All things considered I found Harlem Heat to be a far more enjoyable tag team. And Harlem Heat was much much much better when it came to promos. RVD was horrible when it came to promos. He pointed to himself, said he was the whole F'n show, and that was about it. With Sabu the man almost never talked. It's hard to cut a promo with your mouth shut. Harlem Heat weren't exactly Ric Flair but they cut some great promos.

    Always bringing up the American Males and Nasty Boys. You forgot about Sting and Luger, the Steiner Brothers, The Outsiders, the Blue Bloods, and even the Road Warriors for a short time. They fought together over a span of about 7 years so of course there are going to be some bad teams mixed in there as well.

    So whichever team has had the best match wins? I must have missed where that was stated. I'll take the 10 time WCW tag team champions, who have competed against and beaten some of the all time great tag teams over a couple of spot monkeys that hold a couple wins over the Dudley Boyz
     
  12. X

    X RIP Sgt. Michael Paranzino / RIP CM

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    More dangerous than Sherri atleast.

    Neither Booker nor Stevie are as tough as Sabu. Neither of them. Have you seen Sabu's body? It's a fucking roadmap of scars from dangerous wrestling matches. The guy is the definition of insane. His nickname is "Homicidal, Suicidal, and Genocidal". Throw in an athlete like RVD, and they're just too much for Harlem Heat.

    That's completely and totally incorrect Big Sexy. RVD cut some fan-fucking-tastic promos in ECW, he made a name for himself as the cocky young upstart who didn't have any respect for any of the veterans, he was one of the hottest young heels the business had seen in a long, long time, and a big part of that was his mic work.

    I can't think of a single solitary great promo from Harlem Heat. I can't think of even a good Booker T promo honestly. Both have always been terrible on the mic. Shit you yourself posted the video of Booker calling Hogan the n-word. Not exactly expert promo cutting right there.

    :headscratch: I am? I think this is the first time we've ever actually debated wrestling Big Sexy.

    Who beat Harlem Heat for the tag titles.

    I'll definitely give you that one.

    Come on, let's be honest here, the Outsiders tag team wrestling during 97-98 was a fucking joke. If they even wrestled, the matches were about 3 minutes long before the entire NWO came out and interfered.

    I'm a big fan of them, but in the grand scheme of things not exactly impressive.

    A lot of bad teams. The sole reason they won the tag titles so many times was because literally there was no one else worth it. There was the Steiners (until they split up), The Outsiders (until they split up), and Harlem Heat. That was basically the entire WCW tag division for the duration of the late 90s. Oh, and The Faces of Fear. Didn't they face Glacier and Ernest Miller once?

    It's not, but it certainly helps. Harlem Heat, for as good as they were...they really didn't have many good matches. At all. Really, how many "classics" with Harlem Heat can you think of off the top of your head? One, maybe? The WCW tag division was always a joke.

    Spot monkeys? Bull-fucking-shit. Maybe I'd listen to you on that one when it comes to Sabu, but RVD was never a spot monkey, ever. Just because you have a few spots in a match, that doesn't make you a spot monkey. RVD could flat out go with the best of them, he was better in the ring than Booker or Stevie ever was.
     
  13. Theo Mays

    Theo Mays Part Time Poster

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    I'm going with RVD and Sabu. I may not be the biggest fan of theirs, but I think they win this one in tough fashion. Harlem Heat will bring the heat (pun intended) and give RVD/Sabu a run for their money. But in the end RVD and Sabu go a little more extreme than the boys from Harlem. Throw in Bill Alfonso and that gives them the edge (yes I know HH has managers of their own, I just give the edge to Bill). Good match that I think can go both ways, but my vote goes to the ECW originals.
     
  14. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    I'll take RVD/Sabu here, but a good argument for Harlem Heat would sway me. It's shear brutality v/s shear brutality. Two tough teams that could very well beat the hell out of each other to the point of stopping the match. The question here would be who could take the most punishment. My answer is RVD/Sabu. They LIVE for hardcore. And can tolerate pain as much as any tag team in history. That goes far in a match where power is a big factor in the opponent. This wouldn't be a thinking man's match. It's a case of whomever's out cold at the end of the match loses.

    Vote RVD/Sabu.
     
  15. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    I love Harlem Heat, but there's no way I'm voting for them here.

    If this match were in WCW, I'd consider voting for Harlem Heat, but as I said in the RVD/Sabu vs. Steiners thread... there's no chance in hell I would ever vote for a non-ECW team against RVD & Sabu in ECW, no matter who it was.

    Harlem Heat were great and all, but none of their work comes close to matches RVD & Sabu's work together anyway. And in kayfabe, Harlem Heat just don't stand a chance. If RVD & Sabu could handle the Gangstas in ECW, they sure as shit could handle Harlem Heat in ECW. That's simply a fact.

    RVD & Sabu win here, and there's not an argument that can be made that they shouldn't.
     
  16. PEP3

    PEP3 Getting Noticed By Management

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    What is truly hilarious is Booker T and Sherri's reaction. You can straight up see him put his hands on his face like "Oh shit!" as soon as he says it and turn toward Sherri, whose got the biggest shit-eatin' grin on her face. HILARIOUS!
     
  17. PEP3

    PEP3 Getting Noticed By Management

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    Guess it's time to weigh in on this one. It really didn't take me long to decide either. Rob Van Dam and Sabu, at their best, could beat Harlem Heat at their best. One thing I remember someone famous saying, though I can't remember who at the moment, is the reason that Harlem Heat are 10x WCW World Tag Team champions is because they got beaten 10 different times for the belts.

    And, let's face it, not all of the teams who beat Harlem Heat for the gold were terribly impressive. "Dirty" Dick Slater and Bunkhouse Buck? Barry and Kendall Windham? You've got to be kidding me. Nothing leads me to believe that, especially when things counted the most, were fought under ECW rules and in an ECW arena, Rob Van Dam and Sabu couldn't join that list.

    While I'm not a huge ECW mark, and don't necessarily throw my weight behind all things ECW on the IWC, this one seems clear. Harlem Heat were a great team, but their legacy is also filled with brief, indistinguishable title runs and losses to inconsequential teams. Sabu and Rob Van Dam are two legends, and I believe they would have pulled out all the stops to bring this one home.

    Sorry, folks. Victory goes to Van Dam & Sabu.
     
  18. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    When the fuck did RVD and Sabu become some unstoppable force? They are legends of a promotion that will ALWAYS be second rate. I'm not some big time ECW hater, but it's bullshit when people try to put these ECW guys on the same level of guys from WCW and the WWE. I'm sorry but guys like Tommy Dreamer, Sandman, Stevie Richards, and Sabu would not have had shit for a career if it wasn't for ECW. Those guys have tried and for the most part failed to succeed in the big time promotions.

    RVD is great but Booker T is better. Sabu is a crazy motherfucker, but that often hurt him more then it has helped him. Harlem Heat is just a superior team to RVD and Sabu. Harlem Heat going out here would be a travesty. RVD and Sabu should never have even gotten past the Steiners.
     
  19. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    I went with Harlem Heat here. First off, I'm kind of a Booker T mark. He's one of the few wrestler that I find really interesting, even today. His incoherent mumblings along with his flashy and entertaining in ring work is enough to win me over. I guess Stevie Ray is ok too.

    RVD and Sabu are all exciting and all, but I never really was big on the whole "it's ECW, they automatically win" argument. I think that it would be a rather close match, but RVDSabu wouldn't be anything that Harlem Heat couldn't handle, sucka.
     
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  20. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    I don't get all the lovefest going on with RVD and Sabu. Yes the match is in ECW, but you all make it seem like RVD and Sabu were unstoppable. They lost to The Eliminators multiple times, lost to Shane Dougals, and Bam Bam Bigelow. Wow, that's an unstoppable force.

    Harlem Heat beat Lex Luger & Sting and The Steiner Brothers among other teams which were of higher caliber than anybody RVD and Sabu ever beaten.

    I guess since this is ECW, Harlem Heat doesn't know how to use weapons. I don't give a fuck how much chemistry RVD and Sabu had in the ring, it's not like Harlem Heat never used chairs or tables before. Booker T and Stevie Ray can get just as nasty as RVD and Sabu any day of the week and Sabu punishes himself more than he punishes his opponent and that can be a huge negative.

    I'm giving this match to who I think is the better tag team overall regardless of where this match is held and that is Harlem Heat.
     
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  21. X

    X RIP Sgt. Michael Paranzino / RIP CM

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    How many barbed wire matches have Harlem Heat been in again? Oh, right, zero.

    Well obviously you don't know very much about ECW then, because the Eliminators were one of the best tag teams to ever come out of that promotion and both Shane Douglas and Bam Bam Bigelow are legends. Far, FAR more impressive teams than those that beat up on Harlem Heat---such legendary teams as the Nasty Boys, Dick Slater & Bunkhouse fucking Buck, The American Males, Barry and Kendall Windham, and Konnan and Billy Kidman. Tell me, if fucking Buff Bagwell and Scotty Riggs can beat Harlem Heat for the tag titles, why again couldn't RVD and Sabu beat them in their own environment?

    Those are actually the ONLY two teams worth a shit that they ever really beat. They lost constantly to fucking atrocious teams like the Nasty Boys, The American Males, and nobodies like fucking Bunkhouse Buck.

    They sure as fuck haven't used them anywhere near as much as RVD and Sabu have. Sabu and RVD literally used chairs in 99% of their matches in ECW. They have entire offensive moves based around chairs, moves that Booker T and Stevie could not perform (Harlem Heat sure as fuck isn't busting out any Asai moonsaults)

    That's the biggest load of horseshit I've ever heard. Can get just as nasty? No they cannot, and nothing you could say or show me could prove otherwise. Again, how many fucking barbed wire matches have Harlem Heat been in? Zero. How many exploding ring matches? Zero. It's fine to argue for Harlem Heat, but don't just blatantly lie. Sabu alone is crazier than Booker and Stevie combined.

    Vote for RVD/Sabu people, for the love of God!
     
  22. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    You know not every match that RVD and Sabu were in involved barbed wire. In fact I'm fairly certain a large majority of them didn't.


    The Eliminators were a great ECW team, but who the fuck cares. Stevie Richards was also successful in ECW, but overall he sucks. And you talk about Harlem Heat losing to Bagwell and Scotty Riggs, and in hindsight that looks like a horrible loss. However, when that team was created they were being pushed as one of the top face teams in WCW so obviously HH (the top heel team) was going to lose to them at some point.

    As far as embarrassing losses go.

    [YOUTUBE]fVV8U9UjSpU[/YOUTUBE]

    Harlem Heat lost one match to Slater and Buck. I already explained why the losses to the American males aren't that bad. And what is your hatred with the Nasty Boys? Yes they sucked in the ring and there matches were painful to watch, but they were a successful team. They defeated teams like the Hart Foundation, Money Inc, HH, Sting and Bulldog, and the Blue Bloods.

    Harlem Heat not only has wins over Sting and Luger and the Steiners. They have also defeated the Blue Bloods, the Horseman (Arn Anderson and Paul Roma), and they defeated legendary ECW team Public Enemy. One of their wins over Public Enemy came in an anything goes match.

    You don't have to have a move set revolving around chairs to use them. It's not hard to swing one and hit someone in the head.
    HH has never been in a barbed wire or exploding ring match, but this is just a regular hardcore ECW match. In about 90% of those matches the ring didn't explode and barbed wire wasn't used. As far as Sabu goes, yes he's crazy but he usually does more harm to himself then his opponents.
     
  23. X

    X RIP Sgt. Michael Paranzino / RIP CM

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    You're right. But they could easily use it, and Harlem Heat would be shaking in their boots.

    I'm so sick of that bullshit attitude that ECW doesn't matter. The fuck do you mean it doesn't matter, it was one of the most successful promotions in wrestling history, they had a national television show on cable, PPV deals, talent exchanges with both WCW and WWE. Why is it that it doesn't matter if they had success in ECW?

    To use your own argument, "It doesn't matter if the American Males had any success, because they sucked. So incredibly badly".

    I'd take Monty Brown and Kevin Thorn over the American Males any day of the week.

    Oh okay, so success only matters if it fits your argument. Gotcha. The Nasty Boys were one of the worst tag teams possibly ever. They were embarrassing to watch, always.

    An anything goes match in WCW that was about as hardcore as an opening dark match with two jobbers in ECW. And never, ever, ever refer to Paul Roma as a Horsemen as though that's anything impressive. The Blue Bloods were jobbers, so were Public Enemy.

    You're right. Doesn't change the fact that Sabu and RVD know how to use them better.

    LJL tried to argue that HH were just as hardcore as Sabu/RVD, which is so laughable it actually sent me into hysterical tears. HH would have shit themselves just watching a tape of Sabu wrestle in FMW, but actually having to face him and RVD in a hardcore environment surrounded by nothing but rabid ECW fans who would be ready to riot if HH won?

    HH just don't win this contest, from any point of view.
     
  24. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    I never said ECW didn't matter. They just weren't on the same level as WWE or WCW.

    One argument is that the Eliminators were a successful team in ECW so a loss to them didn't matter. If that's the case then a loss to the American Males isn't bad because they had success in WCW.

    Another argument is that the Eliminators and American Males both sucked even though they had success, so losses to them are bad.

    Whichever argument is used doesn't matter to me, but the fact is that they go together. We can't use one argument to make one team look and good and then use the other to make the second team look bad.
    Monty Brown, yes. Kevin Thorn, fuck no

    The Nasty Boys were successful in multiple promotions (including the two big promotions) for a good ten year period. That's different from teams like the American Males and Eliminators who were successful for a couple years in one promotion.
    Blue Bloods weren't great, but i wouldn't call them jobbers. I wouldn't consider Paul Roma a "true Horseman" either but he was always a successful tag wrestler and his teammate AA was one of the best tag wrestlers ever. And Public Enemy was not at a jobber team in WCW until later on in their tenure. When they took on Harlem Heat they were being pushed as a top team.
     
  25. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    I think you are slightly underrating HH here. Sure, they may not be as "hardcore" as Sabu/RVD, but that doesn't mean they are a couple of *****es. Booker has been married to Sharmell for years, that takes some guts. Being in WCW, they've also been in a fair share of stupid, hardcore gimmick matches. Even though it's not exactly the same as ECW, I'm sure HH wouldn't be mortified at the thought of wrestling RVD/Sabu.

    Also, how good of a team can RVD/Sabu be if they don't even have a cool name for their team? This is a major pitfall of their team.
     
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