ECW Region, Third Round, Last Man Standing Match: (4) Ric Flair vs. (12) Randy Orton

[JGlass]

Just for you LSN, I will respond... you absentee some of a bitch you.

What you're describing are normal wrestling matches. No big deal, plenty of people are making that same mistake. Last Man Standing matches are fights, plain and simple. It's not about hitting one move and keeping someone down for 3, it's about doing so for 10.

Thanks for explaining the rules, but I got this.

Who exactly hasn't gotten up, has had to be stretchered out, because of a Ric Flair figure four? I can't think of anyone.

I'm baffled about how unimaginative people are. The Figure 4 doesn't have to be, and likely wouldn't be, the thing that would put Orton down for 10, it would just be the thing that prevents him from making it back to his feet.

What would happen is Flair would hit a chair shot or something devastating, and Orton would go down. By the time the ref reaches 9, Orton will be almost all the way up, but his legs will give out because of the damage he took to them during the match, and he goes down.

Benoit used the sharpshooter as well as the crossface. What does the sharpshooter target, exactly? Yet Orton was never beaten by Benoit in single's competiton. Flair was.

I'm not even sure where you're going with this. Flair was also never beaten by John Cena. Ric Flair also beat Triple H, who has beaten Orton multiple times, including in a Last Man Standing match, and therefore should beat Orton.

See how terrible that argument is?

While this would be an effective strategy, would this work against Orton? It's far more likely that Orton is going to be able to hit the RKO and the punt. which would keep Flair down and has seen many wrestlers carted off, or a hypothetical situation that may or may not work on Orton?

Ric Flair is famous for a lot of things, but one of them is his inability to be kept down even after nearly an hour of pain. You think an RKO will keep Flair down for 10 when he's fought some of wrestling's greatest talents off all time for nearly an hour and wouldn't stay down for 3?

The Punt would be effective, but Flair is as lucky as he is resilient, and that Punt has been countered more times than it has been hit. There's no way Flair lets that boot hit his head.

Not in this match he doesn't.

Definitely in this match he does. Definitely.

 

[LSN80]

Just for you LSN, I will respond... you absentee some of a bitch you.

Awwww shucks....You make a guy feel special....

Thanks for explaining the rules, but I got this.

You're missing the point I was trying to make. You and others keep talking about these marathon matches that Flair had, these 45 to 60 minute affairs, and how he wasn't kept down for a 3 count. The difference I'm explaining is that those were wrestling matches, and you can forget about those qualities applying in a LMS match. Point me to one out of the 20 or so in history that have gone that long. Why haven't they? LMS matches are more grueling affairs. "Being lucky", "cheating" and a "quick rollup with the feet on the ropes" aren't going to save Flair here. Speaking of things that won't save Flair.....

I'm baffled about how unimaginative people are. The Figure 4 doesn't have to be, and likely wouldn't be, the thing that would put Orton down for 10, it would just be the thing that prevents him from making it back to his feet.What would happen is Flair would hit a chair shot or something devastating, and Orton would go down. By the time the ref reaches 9, Orton will be almost all the way up, but his legs will give out because of the damage he took to them during the match, and he goes down.

I knew exactly what you meant when you said it. I LOVED the Edge/Kane LMS ending in early 2011 for that very reason. Edge didn't dehabilitate the big bad monster until he was unconscious, he just rendered his legs jello to stand on, where he couldn't. The point that doesn't stick for me is Orton getting methodically worked at....that's more his game. A sledgehammer to the head would be more appropriate for finishing Orton. He lives by the big move, and goes down by it. Not some ground and pound, steel chair shot to the legs after being worked over.

Ric Flair is famous for a lot of things, but one of them is his inability to be kept down even after nearly an hour of pain.

Correct. In a wrestling match. Last man standing match= different animal.

You think an RKO will keep Flair down for 10 when he's fought some of wrestling's greatest talents off all time for nearly an hour and wouldn't stay down for 3?

I don't. Never suggested it. What I did say was Flair would be taken out by an RKO AND a punt. You're going to suggest that, still wobbly from the RKO, he's going to have his wits about him to avoid the Punt? Something Batista, HHH, John Cena, and many others have been unable to do?

The Punt would be effective, but Flair is as lucky as he is resilient, and that Punt has been countered more times than it has been hit. There's no way Flair lets that boot hit his head

.

Yet it's hit the head of every big name Orton has feuded with. It's gotten Batista(I was there live for it) when Legacy was being formed, it got CM Punk, it got HHH at Backlash after WM 25, got Cena in the Cell, and it (kayfabe) sent Chris Jericho away for two years. All after being on the receiving end of an RKO.

And not that it was while Flair was in his prime, but Flair HAS let that boot hit his head.

[YOUTUBE]5IJJUG1HBUE[/YOUTUBE]

That looked alot like what I picture happening in this match. Flair, groggily trying to rise following an RKO, being punted in the skull by Orton. But let that cage serve as an example to Orton's intelligence, and WHY he wouldn't be put in a position to where Flair would be earning some tactical victory over Orton. This wasn't a match, it was a street fight, between Flair and Orton. Orton was able to isolate Flair away from all interference, get him in a place where he was most vulnerable, then RKO and punt him. Seems much more likely then Orton being picked apart by the figure four, especially in this match type.

Definitely in this match he does. Definitely.

I hate it when my friends are wrong.....

 

[The Crock]

I've gotta vote for Flair here. I understand that Randy Orton is a sadistic, border-line lunatic in that ring at times, but the Nature Boy has tangled with -- and come out on top of -- far greater competition than Randy Orton. Don't get me wrong, this would be a BRUTAL Last Man Standing Match and I'm sure Orton would nearly be able to beat Flair, but I've seen Flair take more abuse than is humanly possible and still stand up from it. Flair has had some absolute WARS with Bruiser Brody, Harley Race, Triple H, Kerry Von Erich, Stan Hansen, and many more. Ric Flair has fought some of the toughest and most calculating men to ever walk into the squared circle, taken all the abuse they have to offer, and still walked out the winner.

People are too quickly dismissing Flair's catalog of hour long matches, even though some of them had action that would resemble a Last Man Standing Match. Flair's often been covered in blood, beaten with weapons, and still managed to find a way to win. In his prime, Flair would be able to take this victory. I also don't see how people can deny the effectiveness of the Figure Four. If he managed slap on the Figure Four enough times, which a competitor on the level of Ric Flair -- who is arguably the greatest wrestler of all time -- would definitely be able to do, he would significantly hurt his opponent's legs, and render them unable to stand up and answer the ten count.

I like Randy Orton as much as the next guy and I appreciate his propensity for brutality, but the "Dirtiest Player in the Game," the "Nature Boy" Ric Flair would beat him here. Flair would work on the legs, just like he did to countless legends and tough guys alike, and finally stop Orton. Even in the environment that this match provides, I'm sure Flair would be able to even the odds with his use of weapons and intelligence in that ring and capitalize in keeping the hot-headed Randy Orton down for the ten count, to win this match and advance on to the next round in the tournament.

Vote for Ric Flair.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

I've gotta vote for Flair here. I understand that Randy Orton is a sadistic, border-line lunatic in that ring at times, but the Nature Boy has tangled with -- and come out on top of -- far greater competition than Randy Orton.

He's also tangled with -- and come out on bottom of -- Randy Orton.

Don't get me wrong, this would be a BRUTAL Last Man Standing Match and I'm sure Orton would nearly be able to beat Flair, but I've seen Flair take more abuse than is humanly possible and still stand up from it.

But I've also seen Ric Flair take more abuse than is humanly possible and NOT stand up from it. Like when Orton dropped him with an RKO in a Steel Cage, and he didn't get up. He fell, 1-2-3. I also remember another time when Orton and Edge attacked Flair - he didn't get up.

Flair has had some absolute WARS with Bruiser Brody, Harley Race, Triple H, Kerry Von Erich, Stan Hansen, and many more. Ric Flair has fought some of the toughest and most calculating men to ever walk into the squared circle, taken all the abuse they have to offer, and still walked out the winner.

Randy Orton has been in some pretty intense "wars" in his very young career as well. Give him another decade and he'll probably have quite a few more. Orton has gone to battle against Mick Foley, the Undertaker, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Batista, John Cena, Kane, Christian, and Ric Flair on multiple accounts. Flair also went back and forth with so many guys for the better part of a decade - if you actually count it up he probably lost about as many matches as he won.

People are too quickly dismissing Flair's catalog of hour long matches, even though some of them had action that would resemble a Last Man Standing Match.

If wrestling fans had better attention spans and the product even remotely resembled Flair's era, I have no doubt guys like Randy Orton would be wrestling 45-60 minute matches on frequent occasions. But that's not how he was trained, not the industry he broke into, and not really a fair comparison to make. Plus, Last Man Standing doesn't have to equal hour-long match - in fact I can't think of any that do.

Flair's often been covered in blood,

Because his veins are insane and he blades like a motherfucker...

I also don't see how people can deny the effectiveness of the Figure Four. If he managed slap on the Figure Four enough times, which a competitor on the level of Ric Flair -- who is arguably the greatest wrestler of all time -- would definitely be able to do, he would significantly hurt his opponent's legs, and render them unable to stand up and answer the ten count.

I seriously doubt that a guy like Randy Orton, trained on-screen by Flair and Triple H, would get caught in the Figure Four multiple times. Maybe, but not likely. I could see him avoiding it throughout the entire match, and Flair finally locking it in near the end. Flair would also have to do a LOT of damage to keep Orton from getting to at least his knees. All it takes is that last bit of energy, that last-ditch effort to jump up and land the RKO.

I like Randy Orton as much as the next guy and I appreciate his propensity for brutality, but the "Dirtiest Player in the Game," the "Nature Boy" Ric Flair would beat him here.

You've said that multiple times - I edited them out because there's just no point in quoting it over and over again. Just saying he's going to win isn't an argument, whether you say it once or four times.

Flair would work on the legs, just like he did to countless legends and tough guys alike, and finally stop Orton. Even in the environment that this match provides, I'm sure Flair would be able to even the odds with his use of weapons and intelligence in that ring and capitalize in keeping the hot-headed Randy Orton down for the ten count, to win this match and advance on to the next round in the tournament.

If Flair could so easily win this match -- if he's the greatest wrestler of all time -- he shouldn't need anything to "even the odds".

Vote for Randy Orton.

 

[The Crock]

He's also tangled with -- and come out on bottom of -- Randy Orton.

A far past his prime Flair lost to Orton -- that's not what this match is about.

But I've also seen Ric Flair take more abuse than is humanly possible and NOT stand up from it. Like when Orton dropped him with an RKO in a Steel Cage, and he didn't get up. He fell, 1-2-3. I also remember another time when Orton and Edge attacked Flair - he didn't get up.

Again, that wasn't Flair in his prime. Even so, he pushed Orton to the limit when they were in the ring together. That's pretty telling.

Randy Orton has been in some pretty intense "wars" in his very young career as well. Give him another decade and he'll probably have quite a few more. Orton has gone to battle against Mick Foley, the Undertaker, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Batista, John Cena, Kane, Christian, and Ric Flair on multiple accounts. Flair also went back and forth with so many guys for the better part of a decade - if you actually count it up he probably lost about as many matches as he won.

Orton's "wars" don't compare to what Flair has been through, that whole notion is laughable. Have you seen some of the stuff Flair has been through? Have you seen some of the beatings Flair has taken? Look, I understand that the two products we're talking about are drastically different, but it's really no comparison. The only match of Orton's that compares to the brawls Flair has been in is his match with Foley -- a well past his prime Foley, at that.

Yeah, I call bullshit on Flair losing as many as he won, too. Sure, he wasn't dominant, but he was on top of the NWA for quite some time. He defended his title countless times against the top competiton of his era -- some who are FAR better than Orton, take Harley Race as an example -- and always found a way to keep that NWA World Heavyweight Championship around his waist, even if he did lose it many times.

If wrestling fans had better attention spans and the product even remotely resembled Flair's era, I have no doubt guys like Randy Orton would be wrestling 45-60 minute matches on frequent occasions. But that's not how he was trained, not the industry he broke into, and not really a fair comparison to make. Plus, Last Man Standing doesn't have to equal hour-long match - in fact I can't think of any that do.

No, it doesn't have to be an hour-long affair, but we definitely know Flair can go for however long is needed, in this type of environment. Orton's Iron Match Match with Cena is nice, but he didn't do that night in and night out for a large portion of his career. This is a huge factor in the match, whether you like it or not. Flair's endurance and threshold for pain (from what we've seen) is better suited for this type of environment.

Because his veins are insane and he blades like a motherfucker...

Irrelevant.

I seriously doubt that a guy like Randy Orton, trained on-screen by Flair and Triple H, would get caught in the Figure Four multiple times. Maybe, but not likely. I could see him avoiding it throughout the entire match, and Flair finally locking it in near the end. Flair would also have to do a LOT of damage to keep Orton from getting to at least his knees. All it takes is that last bit of energy, that last-ditch effort to jump up and land the RKO.

Even those who knew Flair best and had a great record against him -- Sting, for one -- fell victim to the Figure Four. Flair is as crafty as they come and he'll take any opening he can. You can't say Orton would be able to avoid it, because all indications say he wouldn't. Hell, he knew Triple H and Batista well, but they managed to beat his ass too. Plus, as time would go on -- which it most certainly would, as Flair would not go down quickly, if at all -- Orton's legs would get tired. Every shot to the legs and every second in the Figure Four would start to take its toll.

You've said that multiple times - I edited them out because there's just no point in quoting it over and over again. Just saying he's going to win isn't an argument, whether you say it once or four times.

It's called driving a point home. An esteemed writer such as yourself should understand that.

If Flair could so easily win this match -- if he's the greatest wrestler of all time -- he shouldn't need anything to "even the odds".

Hey, you finally get it!

Vote for Randy Orton.

Don't. Vote Flair.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

A Last Man Standing, in ECW.


You know Flair's stamina is tooted around here, but what I'd like to point out is his pain-endurance. The man bled and got beat like no other. In a cage, in a death match, he got murdered night in night out. But he did win a lot of those.



But still I don't think he could deal with a creature like Orton. That Aryan sadistic Orton was brutal and would here have even more license to go batshit crazy. If this contest was a little more , 'pure', I'd give it to Flair. But this is just a glutton for punishment.


Orton.

 

[Born To Fly]

Flair doesn't have any moves like the RKO. I can't see Flair doing anything to knock out Orton. Sure, he could slap on the Figure Four and do some major damage, but Orton would get up as long as both of his legs aren't broken. Orton has moves that can lead to concussions. Flair doesn't. Orton wins after a few RKOs or a punt to the skull.

 

[Whopperle]

I'm going with Flair here.

He doesn't only have the more successful career (16 Worldtitles, 3 decades on top) but also the stipulation favors him - he's the 60 minute man.

 

[Uncle Sam]

This one's gotten rather close, hasn't it? Perhaps I'll come out a little bit harder for Orton now. However, I'll be trying to win over Ric Flair fans at the same time, and in a rather subtle way. Let's see if you notice.

I don't think Ric Flair would beat Randy Orton in a last man standing Match. Woo. I posit that wrestlers used to wrestle longer because the pace of their matches was less arduous. Woo. Besides, I don't think endurance is relevant in this setting - nobody's ever won a last man standing match with chin locks. Woo. If they had, well, Randy Orton would just walk off with this one, wouldn't he? Woo. Flair can make the match last a while, but I've never seen Orton get gassed - he's hardly renowned for short matches and he's constantly on the road. Woo. Unless Flair has an unusually thick skull - and I doubt he does, as I've seen him split himself open if he cuts a promo too enthusiastically - then endurance simply isn't a factor. Woo. I find the scenario where Orton's legs give out after a figure four a far-fetched one, particularly in comparison to the one where Orton simply RKOs and/or punts Flair in the head. Woo. Space mountain.

Vote Randy Orton - he's a bus-ridin', chin-lockin', show-stealin', cuntin', puntin' son of a gun. Woo.

 

[Davi323]

Point: Flair in his prime would have The Horsemen to back him up, especially with no DQ in effect, and they would collectively be too much for Orton to handle.

Counter-Point: Fair enough... Except that Orton isn't just a meathead heavyweight wrestler. He learned from two of the all-time greats in Flair and Triple H (another point in Orton's favor...). He's just as cerebral as both of them, if not more, and has proven that he can win despite just about any odds. A recent example of this is his WrestleMania 27 feud with CM Punk. Now, in no way am I saying that the New Nexus is even remotely comparable to the Horsemen, but Orton knew the numbers game would eventually get him. ANd so, instead of doing what most dumb faces would do and barrel in there despite the odds, he punted each member of the New Nexus straight to hell, making sure it was just Punk and Orton at WrestleMania. Again, the two teams aren't even playing the same game, but the point is clear that Orton isn't a moron and would have thought of a way to even the odds before this match even took place.

The Horsemen aren't dumb near-rookies like Nexus was. What makes you think they would let Orton punt them out one at a time? This is a tournament, it's not like Orton has a month to prepare for this match. He would have a week to prepare, one RAW and/or one Smackdown to try to even the odds. The Horsemen and Flair are always together, Orton would never get close enough to take any of them out. Orton had the time to take each member of Nexus out in the multiple weeks leading up to Wrestlemania, time he simply does not have between the 2nd and 3rd rounds here.

If anything, Orton would have to be concerned that the Horsemen would jump him during the week inbetween, not the other way around.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I went with Flair but this was the most difficult decision so far I've had to make.

The way I see it happening is as follows. I think Orton would be more likely to knock Flair out for the count of 10 but Flair being the dirtiest player in the game wouldn't try and do that. I see Flair working on Orton's knees and legs to the point he can't put any weight on them and get up.

Flair would work on Orton's legs slowly but surely and slap on the Figure 4 for an extended period of time, to the point where Orton passes out. Orton wakes up at 5 but the damage done to his legs are so great he can't get vertical, he can't make it to the count of 10 and Flair wins.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

There's no chance in hell that Orton is going to pass out from the Figure Four. For one thing, the Figure Four has been countered numerous upon numerous of times from rolling over to Undertaker putting his throat around Flair's neck. Show me evidence of someone passing out from a Figure Four or someone being unable to get up of the duration of a ten-count.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Perhaps you didn't watch Flair's WWF run in the early 90's. That's how he beat Macho Man for the title in September. Macho had a weakened leg, some Razor Ramon interference and Macho's leg was so weakened he was unable to turn it over. Macho passed out, his shoulders hit the mat for the count of 3 and Flair won the title.

Here you go:

[YOUTUBE]UWWSuVyyUIs[/YOUTUBE]

A similar situation could happen here. There are no rules so he could pound on Orton's leg using anything he wanted, get as much interference as he wanted and ultimately win. Not only is it possible, its happened before.

 

[Davi323]

LJL, I agree that I don't think the Figure 4 would cause Orton to pass out directly...I think the point is more that the damage done to Orton's legs because of prolonged exposure to the Figure 4 would leave him at some point later in the match, unable to stand because of the damage done. A cumulative effect, rather than immediate. Remember, you don't need to knock your opponent unconscious to win a last man standing match, you just have to render them unable to stand. Using the Figure 4 repeatedly to weaken the legs so that they don't have enough strength left to support your opponent is one way to accomplish that.

I still think that this being in the ECW region, in what is essentially a no-DQ match gives Ric Flair an insurmountable advantage in that in his prime, he would have the Horsemen to help him cheat like hell...because it wouldn't be cheating. Flair could get him in the Figure 4...but then Arn Anderson could immediately jump in the ring and follow it up with a spinebuster or two, followed by Tully hitting Orton with a piledriver, etc. In this region, the ability of the Horsemen to interfere without penalty puts every opponent Flair faces in a 4-1 handicap match. I don't even know if being placed in the WCW region would have given Flair this big of an advantage. At least in WCW, they had to at least pretend to follow the rules or wait for the ref to get knocked out/distracted before cheating...In ECW, the Horsemen are pretty much given free reign.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Perhaps you didn't watch Flair's WWF run in the early 90's. That's how he beat Macho Man for the title in September. Macho had a weakened leg, some Razor Ramon interference and Macho's leg was so weakened he was unable to turn it over. Macho passed out, his shoulders hit the mat for the count of 3 and Flair won the title.

Here you go:

[YOUTUBE]UWWSuVyyUIs[/YOUTUBE]

A similar situation could happen here. There are no rules so he could pound on Orton's leg using anything he wanted, get as much interference as he wanted and ultimately win. Not only is it possible, its happened before.

I watched. As soon as the bell rung and Flair let go, Savage starting rolling around. A 10 count in a LMS match usually takes around 30 seconds. I can easily see Orton making it to the ropes and using them to stand to beat the count.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I watched. As soon as the bell rung and Flair let go, Savage starting rolling around. A 10 count in a LMS match usually takes around 30 seconds. I can easily see Orton making it to the ropes and using them to stand to beat the count.

I never said Orton would be out the whole time but he could easily be unconscious for a 3 to 5 count before he starts rolling around. Also what if Flair slaps it on outside of the ring, somewhere that Orton doesn't have anything to grab onto?

Orton doesn't need to be knocked out, just hurt enough to where he can't stand.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

LJL, I agree that I don't think the Figure 4 would cause Orton to pass out directly...I think the point is more that the damage done to Orton's legs because of prolonged exposure to the Figure 4 would leave him at some point later in the match, unable to stand because of the damage done. A cumulative effect, rather than immediate. Remember, you don't need to knock your opponent unconscious to win a last man standing match, you just have to render them unable to stand. Using the Figure 4 repeatedly to weaken the legs so that they don't have enough strength left to support your opponent is one way to accomplish that.

I still think that this being in the ECW region, in what is essentially a no-DQ match gives Ric Flair an insurmountable advantage in that in his prime, he would have the Horsemen to help him cheat like hell...because it wouldn't be cheating. Flair could get him in the Figure 4...but then Arn Anderson could immediately jump in the ring and follow it up with a spinebuster or two, followed by Tully hitting Orton with a piledriver, etc. In this region, the ability of the Horsemen to interfere without penalty puts every opponent Flair faces in a 4-1 handicap match. I don't even know if being placed in the WCW region would have given Flair this big of an advantage. At least in WCW, they had to at least pretend to follow the rules or wait for the ref to get knocked out/distracted before cheating...In ECW, the Horsemen are pretty much given free reign.

If that's the case, then I can see Legacy interfering or HHH and Batista if we're referring to his Evolution days. I don't remember interference ever being a deciding factor in a LMS match so I don't see it here in this case.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I never said Orton would be out the whole time but he could easily be unconscious for a 3 to 5 count before he starts rolling around. Also what if Flair slaps it on outside of the ring, somewhere that Orton doesn't have anything to grab onto?

Orton doesn't need to be knocked out, just hurt enough to where he can't stand.

Flair better slap it on him somewhere far from the ring because even if he does administer it outside of the ring, Orton has the ring apron, steel steps, announce table, or the barricade or whatever you call it to grab onto.

 

[Davi323]

If that's the case, then I can see Legacy interfering or HHH and Batista if we're referring to his Evolution days. I don't remember interference ever being a deciding factor in a LMS match so I don't see it here in this case.

Near-rookie Rhodes and DiBiase vs the Four Horsemen? Really?

Evolution is interesting, IF you believe that Orton was in his prime then. However, Evolution interference runs into a few problems. First, you start out a man down already, because Ric Flair is not going to help Orton beat Ric Flair. That leaves HHH and Batista. Didn't they completely turn on Randy Orton? Further, isn't Triple H one of the biggest Ric Flair fans of all time? Given Triple H's loyalty to Flair and the fact that they already betrayed Orton once, can you really trust Evolution to help Orton out here? Isn't it just as likely that Triple H would backstab Orton again, and side with Flair and the Horsemen?

Randy Orton couldn't trust Evolution to have his back the way that Ric Flair can trust the Horsemen.

Besides, Triple H and Batista are supposed to be in Tokyo facing each other in the 3rd round, concurrent to this, making it awfully hard for them to be both there and be in Philadelphia at the same time. Neither are available as they are both halfway across the globe at the time this match would happen.

 

[Mr. Book This Section]

I voted for Ric Flair. The man is an icon in wrestling. One of the greatest of all time.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Just in case I didn't hard-copy my vote...It's Flair. He's had a far more illustrious career than Orton. This should not be anywhere near as close as it is.

 

[AwesomeRko]

I'm going for Orton his sadistic streak and the match stipulation gives him a big advantage in my book. Orton excels in hardcore style match-ups, whilst Flair in spite of being the more honoured superstar probably has less experience in this kind of extreme environment.

Randy Orton has defated such luminaries and accredited hardcore brawlers as HHH and Mick Foley in an extreme setting. He has also beaten Cena, Punk, Sheamus and even an admittedly past it Ric Flair himself in a hardcore environment. I definently think the brutal nature of this match favours Randy.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

Flair would get his ass beat pretty bad in this match. He would be bloodied, he would take some bumps and oversell a few moves and make Orton look really good. Problem is, Flair won't quit. He will keep coming with dirty tricks until he slaps on the Figure Four and Orton passes out from the pain and can't go on. Flair takes it after a grueling match

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Point: Ric Flair would have an equal amount of high-impact opportunities, given that weapons are not only legal, but an essential part of the match.

Counter-point: Considering that both men can use weapons, doesn't that pretty much keep them on an even playing field? It's not as if Last Man Standing matches are notorious for being constant weapon bashes. Most of the match is still spent executing your moveset until the opponent can't get up. So again, it comes down to that Orton has the higher impact moveset with a Hangman's DDT, running power slam, superplex, backbreaker, RKO, Punt, etc. If you put both of them in the ring for 20 minutes, assuming Flair doesn't make Orton tap before then (which is irrelevant in this enivironment anyway), Orton is going to wear Flair down quicker than the opposite.​

Point: Flair is a crazy mufucka that will keep getting up and taking punishment, eventually finding an opportunity to win.

Counter-point: Not actually true. Flair is a crazy mufucka, and he can take one hell of a beating, but he doesn't ALWAYS get back up for me. Case-in-point, their Steel Cage match after the downfall of Evolution. Randy Orton took a beating, including a brutal shot from brass knucks, and still kicked out. Flair took a beating as well, and eventually he fell to the RKO. In my mind, if you can't kick out 1-2-3 in a big match, there's little chance you'll answer the 10 count when there's nothing pinning and/or holding you to the ground. And before somebody makes the comment that Ric Flair was far-removed from his prime by the time that match rolled around, I want to counter by saying that Orton wasn't even close to reaching his prime. He was already the "Legend Killer", but he never became a true face/heel of the company until he became "The Viper" and beat guys like John Cena and Triple H (the second time). When he beat Ric Flair, adding his name to the Legend Wall, he was still somewhat of an underdog.​

Point: Flair in his prime would have The Horsemen to back him up, especially with no DQ in effect, and they would collectively be too much for Orton to handle.

Counter-Point: Fair enough... Except that Orton isn't just a meathead heavyweight wrestler. He learned from two of the all-time greats in Flair and Triple H (another point in Orton's favor...). He's just as cerebral as both of them, if not more, and has proven that he can win despite just about any odds. A recent example of this is his WrestleMania 27 feud with CM Punk. Now, in no way am I saying that the New Nexus is even remotely comparable to the Horsemen, but Orton knew the numbers game would eventually get him. ANd so, instead of doing what most dumb faces would do and barrel in there despite the odds, he punted each member of the New Nexus straight to hell, making sure it was just Punk and Orton at WrestleMania. Again, the two teams aren't even playing the same game, but the point is clear that Orton isn't a moron and would have thought of a way to even the odds before this match even took place.

-High impact moves
-Past victories over Flair before his prime
-Beat both John Cena and Triple H at WrestleMania
-Has beaten Shawn Michaels
-Experience faces the best legends in the company
-Experience in Last Man Standing matches
-Can and will even the odds
-Has the Punt in his arsenal, if all else fails

Vote: Randy Orton

So we're saying that because Orton learned from Evolution, he can kick someone in the head, and he's beaten Shawn Michaels...Orton wins this match?

Flair's big match reputation and experience dwarf Orton's and would continue to do so even if RKO wrestled 20 more years.

Flair is also the 'Dirtiest Player in the Game'. Any cheap shot that can be done would be taken by Flair. Orton's sadistic, but his sadistic attitude leads to mistakes, which Flair's a master of capitalizing on and making Orton pay dearly.

Orton has experience against fighting some legendary wrestlers. Flair IS a legendary wrestler and has been in nearly every gimmick match imaginable and then some. Also, as I've mentioned before, Flair would scout Orton, take care of the 'punt leg' of Orton and make sure that move never would be executed.

Flair wins this for many reasons, but the primary reason is that The Nature Boy is just flat out better than Orton is now and ever will be.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I know that the voting is over but I just had to respond to this.

So we're saying that because Orton learned from Evolution, he can kick someone in the head, and he's beaten Shawn Michaels...Orton wins this match?

Flair's big match reputation and experience dwarf Orton's and would continue to do so even if RKO wrestled 20 more years.

Flair is also the 'Dirtiest Player in the Game'. Any cheap shot that can be done would be taken by Flair. Orton's sadistic, but his sadistic attitude leads to mistakes, which Flair's a master of capitalizing on and making Orton pay dearly.

When has Orton's sadistic attitude ever led him to making a mistake? Also, what would you define as big match experience? Fighting at a major PPV or competing for a world title because I'm quite sure Orton has amassed some experience in that regard and he's only 32 so I bet he will have a ton more.

Orton has experience against fighting some legendary wrestlers. Flair IS a legendary wrestler and has been in nearly every gimmick match imaginable and then some. Also, as I've mentioned before, Flair would scout Orton, take care of the 'punt leg' of Orton and make sure that move never would be executed.

Nearly every gimmick match imaginable you say? I now present to you a list of gimmick matches Flair has not been in.

Hell in a Cell
Dog Collar
Boiler Room Brawl
Empty Arena
Flag Match
Iron Man
Scaffold Match
Bra and Panties
Tuxedo
Boxing Match
Last Ride
Taipei Death Match
Barbed Wire Rope Match
Ambulance
Buried Alive
Casket
Stretcher
Elimination Chamber

I'll just stop right there.

Flair wins this for many reasons, but the primary reason is that The Nature Boy is just flat out better than Orton is now and ever will be.

That must be true. Every Last Man Standing match in history has been won by the better wrestler. Flair can do no wrong except lose a lot.