Criticizing the Best: The Rock

[Ferbian]

Two words, Bullshit! The only reason why he used the catchphrases, is to get the crowd involved, and as Big Sexy said they WANT to hear them. But saying that rock didn't have the ability to a cut a promo without a catchphrase, oh that's SO untrue.

He might have been able to cut a promo without. But he relies way too much on the catchphrases that it is such a rare case to even experience him not using the catchphrases.

He might be doing it to get the crowd involved, or anything like that. It's fine, I'll gladly welcome it, especially considering I'm a big D-Generation X fan, and they did the exact same thing. However Shawn as well as Triple H have proved on numerous occasions that they're able to cut it completely without a catchphrase.

[YOUTUBE]4RA6e9UrbrY[/YOUTUBE]

That's one case, fair enough. However it sounds more like something of a shoot promo rather than something that actually occurred during an actual segment in WWF programming.

[YOUTUBE]Qao4o_xToco[/YOUTUBE]

Candy ass certainly seems to be something The Rock loves to use a lot.

You can question his wrestling ability all you want, but the fact is rock is the greatest on the mic, hands down. He can make you laugh, he can make you boo, he can make you cheer, and he can make you do whatever he want you to do.

I'm not gonna question his wrestling abilities. I liked watching The Rock in the ring, especially in a match like his Iron Man Match with Triple H.

However, to say he is the greatest of all time on the microphone is very arguable. Some may agree with you, however I will disagree and say that I prefer a Triple H, Shawn Michaels or even Stone Cold promo than I enjoy a Rock promo.

Also Triple H, Shawn and Austin could do all those things as well.

Triple H: One of the most hated guys of 2000 and 2002-2003 when he was heel. One of the most popular faces when he's a face, and certainly you cannot deny that he can make you laugh.

Shawn Michaels: Remember his heel promo on Bret and Hogan in 2005? Yeah, definitely had the crowd booing him. DX was funny, and he was very liked in WWE when he returned as a face.

And of course Austin was able to do all 3 things, sometimes all at once.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

The Rock was someone that can make you laugh while he was on the mic but I just never thought he can do a serious promo effectively because he was so good at doing the former. That's why I rank guys like Cena, Funk, and Foley above the Rock because when it came to do a serious promo, the three I mentioned could really sell it and the Rock couldn't.

 

[Big Sexy]

I have been thinking...I have to agree about the catchphrases used by The Rock. I think he does rely on them too much. And although I do agree with Big Sexy that the crowd DOES want those catchphrases. I find it funny that Big Sexy put up a promo that is almost 10 minutes long...if you add up all the time of Rock talking...it's just over 5 minutes of talking (just over half the length of the video). 6 catchphrases were used, 1 of those was slightly stumbled over, but I can understand that with the rush of the crowd and all.

No, he only used three catchphrases. He used two at the very beginning with Vince Mcmahon in the ring. Those were "Finally the Rock has come back" and "it doesn't matter.." Then at the very end he did "if ya smell what the Rock is cooking." Those were the only catch phrases that were used and none of them were part of the meat of his promo. Two were before his actual promo even started and then the third was at the very end. If you wan to count the "jabroni beatin, pie eatin, etc.." rhyme that he had then it's still only 4 and again, none of them were part of his actual promo. He used a few with Mcmahon in the ring before the promo really started and then he finished it off like he always did.

Ferbian, I'm not going to quote your whole post because I just have one thing to discuss with you. I think you are misunderstanding the word "rely." When you rely on something it means you are dependent on it and can't function right without it. The Rock was more then capable of cutting a promo without using catchphrases, but like I said earlier, the crowd wanted to here them. Last time I checked keeping the crowds attention and keeping them entertained is a large part of what promos are supposed to do. The Rock used the catchphrases for the people not because he needed to.

 

[hdchz013]

I still stand by my statement of The Rock RELYING on his catchphrases when doing his promos....Now...whoever posted the video of the Rock and Stone Cold in a face to face interview...that wasn't a promo...that was a shoot style interview...one of the VERY few times that The Rock has referred to himself in the first person.
Now...Big Sexy...Onto your video..
2:24 "Finally, The Rock has come back to Oakland" Vince still in the ring.

2:56 "It doesn't matter what you thought"

3:12 Yes I do count the "jabroni beating....." thing he does....that he's been known to say when talking about himself....which would therefore be classified as one of his catchphrases.

And I do count any catchphrase he says no matter Mr. McMahon being out there or not...because as far as I'm concerned...The Rock captures attention the MOMENT he starts talking to the crowd or an individual....so to me (and probably most)..that's when his promo starts.

I realize some may disagree with me...but at about 7:42 in that video...he says "Just Bring It". Yes I realize that many wrestlers have said that...but, how many wrestlers have had it on their shirts?

There are 4 catchphrases right there.

 

[Big Sexy]

I still stand by my statement of The Rock RELYING on his catchphrases when doing his promos....Now...whoever posted the video of the Rock and Stone Cold in a face to face interview...that wasn't a promo...that was a shoot style interview...one of the VERY few times that The Rock has referred to himself in the first person.
Now...Big Sexy...Onto your video..
2:24 "Finally, The Rock has come back to Oakland" Vince still in the ring.

2:56 "It doesn't matter what you thought"

3:12 Yes I do count the "jabroni beating....." thing he does....that he's been known to say when talking about himself....which would therefore be classified as one of his catchphrases.

And I do count any catchphrase he says no matter Mr. McMahon being out there or not...because as far as I'm concerned...The Rock captures attention the MOMENT he starts talking to the crowd or an individual....so to me (and probably most)..that's when his promo starts.

I realize some may disagree with me...but at about 7:42 in that video...he says "Just Bring It". Yes I realize that many wrestlers have said that...but, how many wrestlers have had it on their shirts?

There are 4 catchphrases right there.

The "just bring it" was being used in the context of a story and wasn't directed towards someone. And again, none of the catchphrases he used had anything to do with the heart of the promo. The point he was getting across was that if Austin wants to leave then good riddance and anyone who wants to join him can get out as well. He used ZERO catchphrases to get that point across. He didn't rely on them at all.

I also find it hilarious that people think the Rock relied on catchphrases too much and then go on to say that Austin was better at cutting promos. Neither relied on them, but for someone to say The Rock did and Austin didn't is completely asinine.

 

[WWTNA]

The flaw I seen in The Rock was letting success get to him. The guy is too busy doing movies then to "PHYSICALLY" come to WWE once in a while. Thats the only flaw I have towards "The Great One." If this flaw didn't even happen, he would still be the coolest thing ever in wrestling today.

 

[hdchz013]

He was talking about being old (whatever age he said)..and was saying he'd still be in the ring with his walker saying "just bring it"...I'm sorry, did he just flat out say that when he's old...he'll still be using those same catchphrases? lol

 

[DiscipleofWrestling]

What is one flaw you saw in The Rock?

Would fixing this flaw make The Rock any better than he already was?

I know this will be knit-picking, but...

If there was a flaw in The Rock, it was the fact that he wasn't exactly the best at applying the Sharpshooter. I don't want to make it sound like Rock couldn't wrestle. He could when the occasion asked for it have a solid 20 minute match with anyone (i.e. Chris Jericho at No Mercy 2001 which in my opinion might be one of Rock's best performances). However, Rock's Sharpshooter was a pretty lame excuse for a sharpshooter.

Here's Bret Hart's iconic application of the Sharpshooter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOfpbMHmkRs

Now, here's The Rock's version of The Sharpshooter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WasZTh75hCY

Rock's version is more like a one armed Boston Crab than an actual sharpshooter as one leg is supposed to be crisscrossed with the other while the person applying it holds the legs together. I know The Rock isn't a great technical wrestler, but if you are going to do the move, do it right, please.

Really, that is the only grief I have with The Rock. He was an amazing entertainer and came around at the right time. His matches were always watchable to some being excellent. If he had perfected the Sharpshooter, I think it would have definitely added to his overall persona that he was a man who could not only electrify on the mic but also be a sound technician in the ring. This isn't a major critique of Rock's career, but rather, a small technical issue I've always had with Rock since he started using the move.

 

[RJJ]

He might have been able to cut a promo without. But he relies way too much on the catchphrases that it is such a rare case to even experience him not using the catchphrases.

He might be doing it to get the crowd involved, or anything like that. It's fine, I'll gladly welcome it, especially considering I'm a big D-Generation X fan, and they did the exact same thing. However Shawn as well as Triple H have proved on numerous occasions that they're able to cut it completely without a catchphrase.



That's one case, fair enough. However it sounds more like something of a shoot promo rather than something that actually occurred during an actual segment in WWF programming.



Candy ass certainly seems to be something The Rock loves to use a lot.



I'm not gonna question his wrestling abilities. I liked watching The Rock in the ring, especially in a match like his Iron Man Match with Triple H.

However, to say he is the greatest of all time on the microphone is very arguable. Some may agree with you, however I will disagree and say that I prefer a Triple H, Shawn Michaels or even Stone Cold promo than I enjoy a Rock promo.

Also Triple H, Shawn and Austin could do all those things as well.

Triple H: One of the most hated guys of 2000 and 2002-2003 when he was heel. One of the most popular faces when he's a face, and certainly you cannot deny that he can make you laugh.

Shawn Michaels: Remember his heel promo on Bret and Hogan in 2005? Yeah, definitely had the crowd booing him. DX was funny, and he was very liked in WWE when he returned as a face.

And of course Austin was able to do all 3 things, sometimes all at once.

As i said, rock used catchphrases to get the crowd involved, but that doesn't mean he can't cut a serious promo. Beside, you mentioned all these guys, austin, hhh, hbk for cutting a better serious promos than rock, i gotta ask you: Can they cut funnier promos than rock's? Can they make the whole crowd stand on their feet chanting their names? You mentioned shawn's promo in canada as a great heel promo, matter of fact whether he likes it or not, everytime he step in a canadian arena they will boo his ass for what he did to bret, not mention his insults towards canada. You see mic skills are not only about serious promos, IMO if the crowd is not involved, the promo worth nothing. Overall, the rock is the greatest on the mic.


Part 1&2
http://s444.photobucket.com/albums/qq165/JohnTheFanatic/Videos/


Part 3
[YOUTUBE]hqlHJgtX0M0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[RJJ]

I know this will be knit-picking, but...

If there was a flaw in The Rock, it was the fact that he wasn't exactly the best at applying the Sharpshooter. I don't want to make it sound like Rock couldn't wrestle. He could when the occasion asked for it have a solid 20 minute match with anyone (i.e. Chris Jericho at No Mercy 2001 which in my opinion might be one of Rock's best performances). However, Rock's Sharpshooter was a pretty lame excuse for a sharpshooter.

Here's Bret Hart's iconic application of the Sharpshooter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOfpbMHmkRs

Now, here's The Rock's version of The Sharpshooter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WasZTh75hCY

Rock's version is more like a one armed Boston Crab than an actual sharpshooter as one leg is supposed to be crisscrossed with the other while the person applying it holds the legs together. I know The Rock isn't a great technical wrestler, but if you are going to do the move, do it right, please.

Really, that is the only grief I have with The Rock. He was an amazing entertainer and came around at the right time. His matches were always watchable to some being excellent. If he had perfected the Sharpshooter, I think it would have definitely added to his overall persona that he was a man who could not only electrify on the mic but also be a sound technician in the ring. This isn't a major critique of Rock's career, but rather, a small technical issue I've always had with Rock since he started using the move.

I don't know why everybody keep complaining about his sharpshooter. Guys, It's just his own version of the sharpshooter. For example: you can't complain about taker's last ride(Powerbomb), because it's just his own version. Rikishi driver(reverse piledriver) is another good example, it's kish own version of the piledriver. Jericho's walls of jericho(boston crab) pre 2001. It's like that, every wrestler has his own version of moves to seperate them from each other's.

 

[Ferbian]

As i said, rock used catchphrases to get the crowd involved, but that doesn't mean he can't cut a serious promo.

No it doesn't. Saying otherwise would be stupid. But he still relied way too much on his catchphrases, and used them to the point where I'm sure someone could even go as far as to find them obnoxious or overused.

We constantly complain about John Cena, and how he's shoved down our throats as people like to say. But we fail to realize that the catchphrases of The Rock was practically shoved down our throats as well to some extend.

Beside, you mentioned all these guys, austin, hhh, hbk for cutting a better serious promos than rock, i gotta ask you: Can they cut funnier promos than rock's?

That is a question I could never get right. Because you'd simply disagree, because being the most funny person is all based on who you laugh the most at, and who you prefer. I for one prefer Triple H and Shawn Michael's promo skills any day over The Rocks.

Can they make the whole crowd stand on their feet chanting their names?

That's questionable. Some times during D-Generation X, or Austin's many antics the crowd was red hot for them. There's a reason Austin is considered the biggest draw in the history of the business by many.

Also, it just shows that someone is more popular than the other. Doesn't make them better. MVP is popular, but he's shit.

You mentioned shawn's promo in canada as a great heel promo, matter of fact whether he likes it or not, everytime he step in a canadian arena they will boo his ass for what he did to bret, not mention his insults towards canada.

Which was another aspect to the whole fact that Shawn Michaels is very good at getting an reaction from the crowd.

Also, he's been cheered in Canada during his 2006 D-Generation X tenure. Remember the promo where he would eventually say "And thank you for Montreal, for forgiving me for one night only" or something along those lines.

You see mic skills are not only about serious promos, IMO if the crowd is not involved, the promo worth nothing. Overall, the rock is the greatest on the mic.

Of course it's not about cutting a serious promo. But it's also not about cutting a funny promo. It's about being able to cut a promo in general and make it work. Get an reaction from the crowd as well. All of the names mentioned in here has been able to do so. But it doesn't make The Rock the greatest. Because Austin got just as big, if not bigger reactions. And Hulk Hogan's reactions blew the roof off every damn building.

 

[RJJ]

No it doesn't. Saying otherwise would be stupid. But he still relied way too much on his catchphrases, and used them to the point where I'm sure someone could even go as far as to find them obnoxious or overused.

We constantly complain about John Cena, and how he's shoved down our throats as people like to say. But we fail to realize that the catchphrases of The Rock was practically shoved down our throats as well to some extend.



That is a question I could never get right. Because you'd simply disagree, because being the most funny person is all based on who you laugh the most at, and who you prefer. I for one prefer Triple H and Shawn Michael's promo skills any day over The Rocks.



That's questionable. Some times during D-Generation X, or Austin's many antics the crowd was red hot for them. There's a reason Austin is considered the biggest draw in the history of the business by many.

Also, it just shows that someone is more popular than the other. Doesn't make them better. MVP is popular, but he's shit.



Which was another aspect to the whole fact that Shawn Michaels is very good at getting an reaction from the crowd.

Also, he's been cheered in Canada during his 2006 D-Generation X tenure. Remember the promo where he would eventually say "And thank you for Montreal, for forgiving me for one night only" or something along those lines.



Of course it's not about cutting a serious promo. But it's also not about cutting a funny promo. It's about being able to cut a promo in general and make it work. Get an reaction from the crowd as well. All of the names mentioned in here has been able to do so. But it doesn't make The Rock the greatest. Because Austin got just as big, if not bigger reactions. And Hulk Hogan's reactions blew the roof off every damn building.

1st of all, Cena is a whole different scenerio. When you're the face of the company and the fans keep chanting "you sucks" day in and day out, without having any idea how to change that then you have a big problem, on another word "you really sucks". I remeber when rock had his match against hogan at WM X8, people were starting to turn on the rock up untill summerslam 2002 when they completly turned on him. You know what he did? He turned heel and the rest is history. Within 2 months he got them back, just like that. And yes, he got his revenge from toronto. The funny thing is even though he completly owned the city, you can hear some rocky chants. Only 2 months. It's been 6yrs now, and nothing change people still booing cena, i wonder why.

"the catchphrases of The Rock was practically shoved down MY throat as well to some extend"
Edited

You mentioned hogan and austin got some crazy reactions, on the mic? Or during thier enterances?


You know what, i have an idea. I'll make a poll: Who is the greatest mic worker in history? I'll add hunter, hbk, hogan(LMAO), Austin, and rock.

 

[Ferbian]

1st of all, Cena is a whole different scenerio. When you're the face of the company and the fans keep chanting "you sucks" day in and day out, without having any idea how to change that then you have a big problem, on another word "you really sucks". I remeber when rock had his match against hogan at WM X8, people were starting to turn on the rock up untill summerslam 2002 when they completly turned on him. You know what he did? He turned heel and the rest is history.

That's all fine and dandy. Have you ever considered that Vince might be the one that decided not to turn Cena, and not Cena himself?

Have you ever considered the fact that Rock had been heel before, and a very very successful one at that, and that is why he was turned back anyway, now that they had a very over face to take his place?

Hogan was kept face for many many years as well. It's business sense, keep your money maker popular.

Within 2 months he got them back, just like that. And yes, he got his revenge from toronto. The funny thing is even though he completly owned the city, you can hear some rocky chants. Only 2 months. It's been 6yrs now, and nothing change people still booing cena, i wonder why.

John Cena hasn't been booed for 6 years...

Also, once again. Common business sense that your money maker should remain popular. John Cena makes tons of money for WWE, no matter how many that hates him.

"the catchphrases of The Rock was practically shoved down MY throat as well to some extend"
Edited

Yeah sure. My throat. Nah, I'm sure there's others out there that don't particularly care for his catchphrases either.

You mentioned hogan and austin got some crazy reactions, on the mic? Or during thier enterances?

At any given point. Have you ever bothered to watch an Austin promo? Have you ever heard a Hulk Hogan promo either?

[YOUTUBE]mt7HjdtbeUk[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]XuNAYdcgRcc[/YOUTUBE]

Both got a great reaction. Even the simple hand gesture worked wonders for the pop for Austin.

You know what, i have an idea. I'll make a poll: Who is the greatest mic worker in history? I'll add hunter, hbk, hogan(LMAO), Austin, and rock.

You should've added "Others".

 

[Kidd]

Yeah sure. My throat. Nah, I'm sure there's others out there that don't particularly care for his catchphrases either.



At any given point. Have you ever bothered to watch an Austin promo? Have you ever heard a Hulk Hogan promo either?

[YOUTUBE]mt7HjdtbeUk[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]XuNAYdcgRcc[/YOUTUBE]

Both got a great reaction. Even the simple hand gesture worked wonders for the pop for Austin.



You should've added "Others".

That's a good promo my HHH.

However, I find it funny taht you talk about catchphrases being shoved down your throat while posting a vid of Austin shoving "WHAT?" down everyone's throat.

I was gonna wait until a "Criticizing Austin" thread came about to mention it but "WHAT?" is the dumbest catchphrase I've ever heard and it was shoved so mercilessly down the WWE universe's throat that they still spew it out to this day.

Look, the bottom line is that everyone at some point uses catchphrases. Austin had "WHAT?" and "Gimme a hell yeah"; The Rock had "It doesn't matter" and "Finally, the Rock has come back"; Hogan had "Whatcha gonna do"; HHH had "I am that damn good" and "Two words for ya."

So to act as if the Rock was the only one who relied too much on catchphrases or that they were shoved down our throats is far fetched.

 

[Big Sexy]

But he still relied way too much on his catchphrases, and used them to the point where I'm sure someone could even go as far as to find them obnoxious or overused.

Apparently you only respond when your posts are quoted. Once again, the definition of relying on something means you are dependent on it and need it to succeed. The Rock didn't NEED the catchphrases he was giving the crowd what they wanted to hear. Why the fuck do you think the crowd was always hype and ready to finish his catchphrases? It's because they wanted to hear them. The People's Champ was all about the people. I guarantee if fans thought they were being shoved down their throat then they wouldn't have gone crazy every time the Rock used them. I'll take the opinion of millions of fans around the world over yours. A major part of cutting promos is getting the crowd involved and invested in what you are saying. No one did that better then The Rock.

I've also stated before that the meat of the Rock's promos weren't about catchphrases. He may use one or two at the beginning, one at the end, and throw a couple randomly in the middle but none of them really affected the points he was trying to get across.

One final thing I'd like to say is that it is absolutely laughable that you praise Austin's promos and think he is better then the Rock and then shit on the Rock for using too many catchphrases. "Austin 3:16," "Open a can of whoop ass," Gimme a Hell Yeah," "That's the bottom line," and of course "WHAT." Austin did the exact same thing the Rock did. To praise Austin and criticize the Rock is highly hypocritical.

 

[Ferbian]

Apparently you only respond when your posts are quoted.

I apologize if I have missed one of your posts being intended to me. I tend to pay more attention to being quoted, that's all.

Once again, the definition of relying on something means you are dependent on it and need it to succeed. The Rock didn't NEED the catchphrases he was giving the crowd what they wanted to hear.

Yes fair enough we know that he didn't need them, as well as the fact that it was the crowd that went on to love them. But it's certainly nothing that won't mean that he didn't use them to the extend of which they got the majority of the attention around the promo.

Why the fuck do you think the crowd was always hype and ready to finish his catchphrases? It's because they wanted to hear them. The People's Champ was all about the people. I guarantee if fans thought they were being shoved down their throat then they wouldn't have gone crazy every time the Rock used them.

Sure, the crowd loved them and all that. Doesn't mean that some couldn't feel like they were showed down their throats. The Rock used these catchphrases to the point where it practically became all there was to The Rock when he cut a promo. At least if you ask me. Sure he was charismatic and he was entertaining, but in the end wouldn't you say it doesn't matter what the hell he would be saying, as long as the catchphrases were involved?

I'll take the opinion of millions of fans around the world over yours. A major part of cutting promos is getting the crowd involved and invested in what you are saying. No one did that better then The Rock.

Sure, he did it very well. But Austin did it incredibly well as well, D-Generation X did it well, even Hulk Hogan did it very very well.

I'm not taking anything away from The Rock and his abilities. I just find it to be one of the only things I can truly critique The Rock on, because I don't feel that even if the crowd seems to jizz themselves over his catchphrases, that it was truly something he would've needed to play off the entire time.

I've also stated before that the meat of the Rock's promos weren't about catchphrases. He may use one or two at the beginning, one at the end, and throw a couple randomly in the middle but none of them really affected the points he was trying to get across.

But that's one of the problems. Because they did exactly become very dominating in his promos. Sure he was able to get the point across extremely well, but he didn't need the catchphrases for it to succeed, yet they needed to implement it either way. The crowd popping for it or not, it's not something that really had me extremely impressed about The Rock. Not that I didn't like his catchphrases and all that, but I don't believe he needed them this much, and this often.

One final thing I'd like to say is that it is absolutely laughable that you praise Austin's promos and think he is better then the Rock and then shit on the Rock for using too many catchphrases. "Austin 3:16," "Open a can of whoop ass," Gimme a Hell Yeah," "That's the bottom line," and of course "WHAT." Austin did the exact same thing the Rock did. To praise Austin and criticize the Rock is highly hypocritical.

It's a matter of opinion I guess. I for one find Austin to be much, much more enjoyable to listen to. And sure the "WHAT" catchphrase is pretty damn overused, but it has gone on to both become a HUGE impact on wrestling fans (Cause we have to argue this, don't we?) as well as he made it work extremely well for the simplicity behind it.

Besides, while I praise Austin, I've also expressed that Triple H and Shawn Michaels to me are better promo cutters than Austin or The Rock. But then again, that's just my opinion.

 

[Big Sexy]

Yes fair enough we know that he didn't need them, as well as the fact that it was the crowd that went on to love them. But it's certainly nothing that won't mean that he didn't use them to the extend of which they got the majority of the attention around the promo.

So now you're admitting that he didn't rely on them? That was easy enough.

Sure, the crowd loved them and all that. Doesn't mean that some couldn't feel like they were showed down their throats. The Rock used these catchphrases to the point where it practically became all there was to The Rock when he cut a promo. At least if you ask me. Sure he was charismatic and he was entertaining, but in the end wouldn't you say it doesn't matter what the hell he would be saying, as long as the catchphrases were involved?

Nobody is going to like every single thing a person does but the vast majority loved the Rock's promos and loved his catchphrases. I'd much rather please 95% of the fan base then a few people with differing opinions. And of course it mattered what he was saying. If it didn't then the Rock wouldn't have been as successful as he was and wouldn't have had the great feuds that he did. The catchphrases were just an added source of entertainment to what he was already bringing to the table with his intensity and passion.

Sure, he did it very well. But Austin did it incredibly well as well, D-Generation X did it well, even Hulk Hogan did it very very well.

I never said they didn't, but no one ever really did what the Rock did. He had the crowd in the palm of his hand. If he wanted them to hate him then he could make it happen in an instant on the mic. If he wanted them to chant his name all he had to do was say a few words, hold the mic to the crowd, and thousands of people would be chanting "Rocky." It was remarkable what he was able to do. Guys like Hogan and Austin had that ability but not really to the same level as the Rock.

But that's one of the problems. Because they did exactly become very dominating in his promos. Sure he was able to get the point across extremely well, but he didn't need the catchphrases for it to succeed, yet they needed to implement it either way. The crowd popping for it or not, it's not something that really had me extremely impressed about The Rock. Not that I didn't like his catchphrases and all that, but I don't believe he needed them this much, and this often.

That's your opinion. Again, I'm sure the Rock was more concerned with pleasing millions of people around the world then pleasing you.

It's a matter of opinion I guess. I for one find Austin to be much, much more enjoyable to listen to. And sure the "WHAT" catchphrase is pretty damn overused, but it has gone on to both become a HUGE impact on wrestling fans (Cause we have to argue this, don't we?) as well as he made it work extremely well for the simplicity behind it.

All I'm saying is that it is highly hypocritical to praise Austin and shit on the Rock for doing the exact same thing.

Besides, while I praise Austin, I've also expressed that Triple H and Shawn Michaels to me are better promo cutters than Austin or The Rock. But then again, that's just my opinion.

Yes, an opinion that the vast majority of wrestling fans and enthusiasts would disagree with.

 

[RJJ]

That's all fine and dandy. Have you ever considered that Vince might be the one that decided not to turn Cena, and not Cena himself?

Have you ever considered the fact that Rock had been heel before, and a very very successful one at that, and that is why he was turned back anyway, now that they had a very over face to take his place?

Hogan was kept face for many many years as well. It's business sense, keep your money maker popular.



John Cena hasn't been booed for 6 years...

Also, once again. Common business sense that your money maker should remain popular. John Cena makes tons of money for WWE, no matter how many that hates him.





Yeah sure. My throat. Nah, I'm sure there's others out there that don't particularly care for his catchphrases either.



At any given point. Have you ever bothered to watch an Austin promo? Have you ever heard a Hulk Hogan promo either?

[YOUTUBE]mt7HjdtbeUk[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]XuNAYdcgRcc[/YOUTUBE]

Both got a great reaction. Even the simple hand gesture worked wonders for the pop for Austin.



You should've added "Others".

I lived thier promos, mr. Hogan talked about nothing but his hulkamaniacs, eating his vitamins, saying his prayers, "Brother", and "watcha gonna do". Austin the same, since his heel turn in 2001 he kept telling the alliance memebers that they had the potential to become a superstar just like him, he got his eyes on them, "my name is SCSA and i am the WWF champion", "I don't trust you", "I like you", ""And that's the bottom line cause stone cold said so", "You mealy mouthed bastard", "open a canna whoop ass", "hell yeah", and the biggest of them all:"WHAT?!" I'm damn sure you never knew about some of those catchphrases before, but those were the words that austin kept signing them every show.

LOL and why would you bring up a "triple h disses austin" vid?

Now back to cena, here is a match from 2005, and tell me what the fans are doing here?

[YOUTUBE]E8xjq7CbE0E[/YOUTUBE]

here is another one from 2006
[YOUTUBE]n-PkYVxM_d0[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]Kih2Aochcmk[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]Ez_AHUHpnPQ[/YOUTUBE]


He's getting booed since 2005, which makes it 6yrs.

 

[Ferbian]

So now you're admitting that he didn't rely on them? That was easy enough.

Not necessarily. I might've worded it wrongly, but I felt that he used them way too much that's for certain.

Nobody is going to like every single thing a person does but the vast majority loved the Rock's promos and loved his catchphrases. I'd much rather please 95% of the fan base then a few people with differing opinions. And of course it mattered what he was saying. If it didn't then the Rock wouldn't have been as successful as he was and wouldn't have had the great feuds that he did. The catchphrases were just an added source of entertainment to what he was already bringing to the table with his intensity and passion.

Sure, there's no problem in pleasing the majority. But considering this is a criticize the best thread, this was the one thing I wanted to criticize because I'm not a part of the majority. I don't MIND his catchphrases, but I could certainly live without them just as well.

Also, it's obvious that The Rock got over through being able to trash talk, and his catchphrases. He could've been cutting great promos as Rocky Maivia, but trust me, people would've still hated him.

I never said they didn't, but no one ever really did what the Rock did. He had the crowd in the palm of his hand. If he wanted them to hate him then he could make it happen in an instant on the mic. If he wanted them to chant his name all he had to do was say a few words, hold the mic to the crowd, and thousands of people would be chanting "Rocky." It was remarkable what he was able to do. Guys like Hogan and Austin had that ability but not really to the same level as the Rock.

But, Austin could do the exact same thing BS. You remember the promo he cut the week (or night, I don't exactly remember, and I cannot find the video of the promo) where he complained about the crowd turning their back on him because he was crying over Kurt Angle threatening to throw him off the bridge? How he worked the crowd into doing exactly what he wanted to.

Yes The Rock was great at working the crowd, but I'd say it's pretty arguable as to whether he was the best, or whether there were someone slightly (only slightly, because obviously it was a close race) better.

That's your opinion. Again, I'm sure the Rock was more concerned with pleasing millions of people around the world then pleasing you.

Yeah sure, we've already established that.

All I'm saying is that it is highly hypocritical to praise Austin and shit on the Rock for doing the exact same thing.

That's fair enough, and I see where you're coming from. I just tend to find Austin's catchphrases more tolerable.

Yes, an opinion that the vast majority of wrestling fans and enthusiasts would disagree with.

So it would seem.

I lived thier promos, mr. Hogan talked about nothing but his hulkamaniacs, eating his vitamins, saying his prayers, "Brother", and "watcha gonna do". Austin the same, since his heel turn in 2001 he kept telling the alliance memebers that they had the potential to become a superstar just like him, he got his eyes on them, "my name is SCSA and i am the WWF champion", "I don't trust you", "I like you", ""And that's the bottom line cause stone cold said so", "You mealy mouthed bastard", "open a canna whoop ass", "hell yeah", and the biggest of them all:"WHAT?!" I'm damn sure you never knew about some of those catchphrases before, but those were the words that austin kept signing them every show.

That's fine, but that doesn't change the fact that I find at least Austin more entertaining to listen to, and someone I would rather listen to cut a promo than The Rock. Hogan is arguable, but Hogan got a great reaction as well, that could easily contest, or overdo The Rock.

LOL and why would you bring up a "triple h disses austin" vid?

To prove the point that Austin could get a great reaction. Are you even paying any attention to what I'm saying?

Now back to cena, here is a match from 2005, and tell me what the fans are doing here?

[YOUTUBE]E8xjq7CbE0E[/YOUTUBE]

Cheering him. Duh?

There's a very very small amount of the crowd that boos him, but there's always gonna be haters around. Always gonna be someone that doesn't like a wrestler, and automatically boos him. However, the amount of people booing him here is HARDLY noticeable.

Besides, that's Summerslam 2005, against Chris Jericho, a guy that will always get a decent bit of cheering no matter what he does. As well as the fact that you constantly say it's 6 years since they started booing Cena, but we're not even in 2011 yet, and this is Summerslam, from the summer period. That would mean we're still in our 5th year of him getting booed. And it didn't take storm until 2007 really.

here is another one from 2006
[YOUTUBE]n-PkYVxM_d0[/YOUTUBE]

ECW crowd, are you really gonna pull this out as your proof that Cena sucks or something like that. It's the ECW crowd, they will boo anyone that isn't ECW.

[YOUTUBE]Kih2Aochcmk[/YOUTUBE]

Against Edge, in Canada. Need I say more?

[YOUTUBE]Ez_AHUHpnPQ[/YOUTUBE]

That's from 2010. It's obvious he's getting booed now.

He's getting booed since 2005, which makes it 6yrs.

But, it's still 2010