Criticizing the Best: The Rock

[#hamler]

I'm hoping to start some kind of series here. Depending on the amount of traffic I get in this thread. The main idea is to pick something you would like to criticize about said superstar.

The first thread in the series starts with;

The Rock​

"The Brahma Bull", "The People's Champ", "The Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment", "The Great One"...The Rock. He is a former PWI Wrestler of the Year. Former 2 time PWI Most Popular Wrestler of the Year. Two time PWI Match of the Year with Hogan and Mankind. Two time WCW Champion and seven time WWF/E Champion. The Rock's career was no doubt a sucess.

The Rock is regaurded to some as the best mic worker in the history of the WWE. His mic ability was and still is un-matchable. The Rock had many one liners and was truly an amazing talent. Head-lining multiple Wrestlemania's against the likes of Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold Steve Austin on three seperate occasions. The Rock was also very talented in the ring. By that, meaning he could really entertain the crowd. Anything from yelling at his opponents to using the people's Elbow to get the crowd going. The Rock seem to draw an amazing amount of fans whether heel or face. He could play either very well. The Rock was truly a phenomenal talent. However, the Rock, just like any other wrestler had his flaws. No matter how talented you think he was, The Rock wasn't perfect. Which leads us to the discussion questions.

What is one flaw you saw in The Rock?

Would fixing this flaw make The Rock any better than he already was?

If you see no flaw in The Rock, state why. And please don't fuck up my thread with spam. Explain. Feel free to rip apart posts piece by piece, I want a discussion here.

Discuss this shit.

 

[Karaoke Superstar]

One flaw was at times he tended to oversell moves, a fine example would be the stunner he would sometimes do a backflip afterwards. But his biggest flaw is that he left too early and left a big hole in wrestling that will never be filled. But no that doesn't change how great he was.

 

[hdchz013]

First of all...great topic. I for one look forward to this becoming of series of threads.
If I had to study The Rock and find a flaw....I would have to say....well, dang nab it.. I started typing this thinking "I'm gonna pick something that KS has not stated...but in all actuallity, the only thing that comes to mind is both things that KS already said...He did have a tendancy of over selling moves..especially the stunner (I'm even looking at multiple instances to verify).
I also truly believe he left too early..although I believe he could have stayed around a few more years and still been just as popular in movies as he is right now.
The Rock was/is truly one of "The Greats". I am still hopeful that I will be able to see him in at least one more match somewhere in the future.

 

[DxArmy]

i could only find one flaw in the rock and it was a move. The people's elbow. Sure it got over with the crowd Big time but it just wasn't strong enough to be a finisher. Rock Bottom was a great finisher though.

 

[Brahma Bull]

i dont think he had a flaw really. he did tend to oversell, but that went along with his persona. and really, he made the stunner look damn good. he made it look like it completely destroyed him. and about him leaving early, i hate how spoiled so many fans are. they think that the wrestlers need to break their bodies before they leave. the rock came, entertained, and got out before he was paralyzed, or in constant pain from wrestling. he found a job that allowed him to be with his family more, and not have to worry about being injured. not to mention he gets paid a lot more now. do i miss the rock? my name should say of course i do. but i respect his decision for leaving after giving us such great memories of him.

 

[pr1celess]

The only issue I ever had with The Rock was, I know this really is knit-picking, the fact that whenever somebody was going to get out of the Rock Bottom he would tap them on their shoulder as a cue, which even as a 15 year old mark I spotted, and sorta ruined the hype of the move for me. Also, the People's Elbow, marginally better than The Worm for me, although a lot more intense. Oh, and his boots were awful, and he wore tacky clothes, like the furry waistcoat above! He also took the Pedigree like a girl, but other than that I didn't mind the over-selling, this was a time when Rikishi did a backflip everytime he got clotheslined!

 

[deadtaker]

Th biggest thing that needed to change was his gimmick coming into the wwf/e. Rocky Mavia was just a terrible gimmick. I don't mind him leaving early, even though he was one of the best and still could be today, you see too many wrestlers hanging on too long and not getting out of the spotlight.

 

[OutsiderDX]

The fact that he never had a 5 star match.

Shouldn't that be the goal of every wrestler?

Also, The Rock really never really had a defining match that said, this man is great. One of the reasons for this is, he was unable to create emotion in his matches. HBK was the very best at this. In so many matches, Shawn would sell his own dimise through looks and acts of desperation, sadness, weariness. The Rock just never create disbelief in his matches.

The flaw is, i feel no need to go finger through dvds to rewatch a match solely for The Rock. Sure i enjoy his matches with Austin, but i think Austin is the one who created the emotion.

 

[Uncle Chester]

The fact that he never had a 5 star match.

Shouldn't that be the goal of every wrestler?

Also, The Rock really never really had a defining match that said, this man is great. One of the reasons for this is, he was unable to create emotion in his matches. HBK was the very best at this. In so many matches, Shawn would sell his own dimise through looks and acts of desperation, sadness, weariness. The Rock just never create disbelief in his matches.

The flaw is, i feel no need to go finger through dvds to rewatch a match solely for The Rock. Sure i enjoy his matches with Austin, but i think Austin is the one who created the emotion.

Actually The Rock had a near five star classic with Jericho for the title. You should check it out. Are you serious about the emotion? Because the crowd was tuned into every match he was in, no matter the competitor.

The flaw with Rock is his quite repetive promo's. He relied a lot on catch phrases as opposed to substance which I think is a criticism. Also he changed his promo's from Early Rock where he was this laid back, very cool guy to a hyped up child.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

What is one flaw you saw in The Rock?

For the most, The Rock (as the top face) was a reactive character. If you look at his key storylines and programmes on TV you notice The Rock was not the one driving the story. Example, Rock vs. Benoit ... Benoit attacks Rock and Rock has to defend the title. Sure Rock was great at the mic but everything about his feuds makes him more of the reactive character. It may seem vauge but look at the difference with Austin's rivalries compared to The Rock's ... Austin raises hell and makes crazy decisions Rock just waits to get attacked then makes some cool promos out of it.

THis is probably the reason I always cheered for the heels (Benoit, Angle, Triple H etc) when they are up against The Rock.

Would fixing this flaw make The Rock any better than he already was?

It would probably have made the rivalries more interesting but seeing how insanley over The Rock was I guess this is more a personal insight than a conensus.

 

[jacdnwarrior]

The Rock. He did tend to oversell things, but a number of performers did that. He wasn't the most spectacular worker, but he was better than people gave him credit for. His finisher wasn't the best I've ever seen, too basic, too simple. That being said, his flaws are very minor compared to what he brought to the table. He was great, but not perfect.

 

[The Brain]

Like others have said I think The Rock oversold. I don’t think it was that bad because I think it pertained mostly to the stunner. He just looked ridiculous the way he flopped around after taking that move. The bigger criticism I have is he could be pretty sloppy in the ring. It was like Rock was so hyped up during a match that the execution of his moves suffered. I always hated it when the Rock tried a belly to belly throw when an opponent was running at him. It rarely looked good. I cringed every time he used the sharpshooter. It looked terrible. I’ve always noticed that these were two moves that Owen Hart used to do and Rock started using them after Owen died. Owen executed them so beautifully whereas Rock was always sloppy with them.

 

[pessimism101]

I would have considered Rock selling out to Hollywood to be his biggest flaw, but I digress...

I don't consider the People's Elbow to be a flaw because, for the most part, it was done after a Rock Bottom. The biggest flaw I found with the Rock was that he was FAR too repetitive with almost every promo he did. Once in a while he would do an original promo (IE: the one in Toronto in 2003), but most of the time it was basically, "Finally...", "The Rock says", "Hermaphrodite/Jabroni/Candy Ass", and "If ya smell" without much else in between. I was bored of him by the end of 2000.

 

[gurvinder372]

I never realized that he was overselling stunner, instead i thought he sold it like no one else. He is the reason why i started watching wrestling at first place, and continued to watch till he was there. So when he left, i stopped watching wwf for a while as it became a boring. I can't see a flaw in his storytelling, and never found him boring.

Only thing that i wish he should have done differently (or shouldn't have done) is leaving wwe early.

 

[JETER123]

In my opinion, I always felt he was overrated. I'm sure I'll take crap for this, but I always thought some of his humor was cheap. When he said stuff like, "monkey testicles", I always thought it was like 12 year old humor, even when I was like 12 haha.

 

[legendkiller1979]

Before I start I would like to ask everyone a simple yes or no question. Would be nearly as entertaining today in the PG era? While The Rock did have some hilarious promos, many were not very clever. How much skill does it take to talk about monkey piss or llama's anuses? How many times did he say he was going to take something....turn that sumbitch sideways...and shove it straight up someone's candy ass? For the attitude era he was great. The WWF was going to cheap shock value and it worked. Calling The Rock the greatest person on the mic would be like calling the hell in a cell match with mankind and undertaker the greatest match ever. This is a fair comparison. Both left you saying "holy shit!" Rowdy Roddy Piper was so funny back in a PG era. he didn't have to swear or resort to vulgar statements to get over. I'm not hear to debate who is the best ever. I'm just stating this is what I would criticize about the great one.

 

[Kidd]

Also he changed his promo's from Early Rock where he was this laid back, very cool guy to a hyped up child.

Let me expound on this a minute.

I couldn't agree more. Check this promo out from back during the Alliance Invasion.

[YOUTUBE]roRpgbV3szE[/YOUTUBE]

Sorry I was unable to find part two to this. But If I recall correctly, he owned BookerT afterward on the mic.

Now Check this one from 2004.

[YOUTUBE]svIIcemTdKA[/YOUTUBE][YOUTUBE]ukIF_U56_hU[/YOUTUBE]

See a difference? I sure as hell do. Where's the intensity? He just seems more interested in getting some cheap laughs and playing to the crowd.

I cut out the middle because it was all orton. But if you will notice he doesn't really say one word to Orton nor does he do his "It doesn't matter what your name is!" to Orton which would have been priceless. All he seemed to be concerned with was playing to the crowd.

So to me, the Rock lost some intensity toward the end of his WWF/WWE career.

Of course, with all this being said, I'll take a less intense Rock on the mic as well as in the ring over any superstar in the business today.

 

[Dyno Kid]

I'm not a Rock hater but the guy really never did it for me. He wasn't the best worker, his punches were bad, and he did tend to get a little goofey and childish on his promo's as was mentioned before.

While his delivery was quick and smooth I'd still take Piper on the mic over him as far as guys in WWF/WWE history goes !

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Very good thread idea, Hamler. After all it is the duty of the IWC to criticize.

The first flaw that I can think of that Rock had was that he oversold a lot. To me overselling is just as bad as no selling because it is a hit on kayfabe in my opinion. How can a move hurt one guy so much but not hurt other guys to the same degree is beyond my understanding. So that's his first flaw.

The second flaw that I find with Rock is that he is overrated in the ring. Now I know some people worship this guy but barring a few matches, I never really enjoyed his matches. He was sloppy in executing of certain moves most notably the sharpshooter. Altogether his matches were not just that interesting to me. People give a lot of shit to Cena for being bad in the ring but I really think that the Rock is on Cena's level, number of moves notwithstanding.

As for your second part I do not think Rock could have improved on these in any way, except maybe concentrate more when he was having a match, I guess.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

One flaw was at times he tended to oversell moves, a fine example would be the stunner he would sometimes do a backflip afterwards.

Exactly my pick. I didnt like The Rock overselling the Stunner. He would lend on his knees and roll backwards, and you could clearly see him using his hands to push himself up into the air to flip over. It got on my nerves once I noticed it going on.

However, for fans who didnt notice him pushing himself, he did make the Stunner look more spectacular and entertaining, and that is exactly what The Rock was...an entertainer...and damm good at it. Everything he did was larger-than-life and exagerated, from his Peoples Elbow, to the way he would move the mic to his mouth during promos, from his punches to the way he performed most moves. It is for this reason I cant really criticise The Rock for overselling moves occasionally, he is just too damm entertaining.

 

[RJJ]

I don't know why everybody's complianning about his selling. Rock's move sellings were always great(with the exception of the stunner and hogan's leg drop). Here is an examples:


The chokeslam:
[YOUTUBE]H9OZl3wqqHw[/YOUTUBE]
at 8:15


Angle Slam:
[YOUTUBE]oo-igyS443s[/YOUTUBE]


The Rock Bottom:
[YOUTUBE]wHRyqkExYKI[/YOUTUBE]
at 3:34

F5:
[YOUTUBE]WTbJi8znRNQ[/YOUTUBE]
at 1:02

Rhyno's Gore:
[YOUTUBE]iO4cCimeJ1A[/YOUTUBE]
At 4:36


Flaws: I can think of is just like Kidd said he become more of a hyped up kid on the mic since his comeback on 2001. He simply wasn't as good on the mic as he was in 1999 and 2000. Another flaw, i really didn't like the so called "People's punch" in which he mocks his opponent and then spits on his hand(WTF?!?) and deliver a big right hand. Also i don't like the fact that they builed the people's elbow as a devastating finishing move.

 

[Ferbian]

The one thing that I've never really liked about The Rock is the fact that while he certainly seemed able to cut a "serious" promo, he relied way too much on his catchphrases. You'd be pretty certain to hear a catchphrase at any given point that The Rock got on the microphone.

Sure he was great on the microphone, don't get me wrong. But relying on the catchphrases isn't really the thing that I find to be most impressive. Look at a guy like Triple H when he was a heel, absolutely amazing on the microphone, and there were hardly any catchphrases in his vocabulary, if any at all during his Evolution period.

And I'm gonna get slaughtered by the marks, but John Cena doesn't even rely on his catchphrases the most of times. Sure he has them, and he uses them on occasions like "Never back down never quit", "You want some, come get some" and the "You can't see me" handwave. Which has become more of a move-set part than an actual catchphrase / taunt ala The Rock's "just bring it" hand gesture.

That's my only problem about The Rock. He has entertaining promos, and great ones as well. But he just doesn't seem to be able to cut it without a catchphrase.

 

[Big Sexy]

Ahh yes, the old "Rock relies too much on catchphrases" bullshit. The Rock, like most of the greats, had a lot of catchphrases. Austin, Hogan, Flair, all the greats had a plethora of them. The Rock didn't need them though. You look at a lot of his promos, especially the serious ones, and there isn't much use of catchphrases. He would always use them at the beginning and end but the meat of his best promos didn't use too many, if any at all.

The second thing about catchphrases is that the audience WANTS to hear them. They want to get involved in a promo, they want to be invested in what there favorite wrestler is saying. The Rock did that better then anyone. He didn't need the catchphrases but he did want to give the people what they wanted.

Here's an example of one of the Rock's best promos. He uses a couple catchphrases at the beginning and one at then end but the rest of the promo is from the heart and virtually catchphrase free.

[YOUTUBE]r5qdzQd0jTA[/YOUTUBE]

 

[hdchz013]

I have been thinking...I have to agree about the catchphrases used by The Rock. I think he does rely on them too much. And although I do agree with Big Sexy that the crowd DOES want those catchphrases. I find it funny that Big Sexy put up a promo that is almost 10 minutes long...if you add up all the time of Rock talking...it's just over 5 minutes of talking (just over half the length of the video). 6 catchphrases were used, 1 of those was slightly stumbled over, but I can understand that with the rush of the crowd and all. Not only that...but I also find it funny that Big Sexy chose a promo where Rock talks about WWE being his home and where he will stay. lol
How is that for all you fans that say "just let him go".

 

[RJJ]

he relied way too much on his catchphrases. You'd be pretty certain to hear a catchphrase at any given point that The Rock got on the microphone.

That's my only problem about The Rock. He has entertaining promos, and great ones as well. But he just doesn't seem to be able to cut it without a catchphrase.

Two words, Bullshit! The only reason why he used the catchphrases, is to get the crowd involved, and as Big Sexy said they WANT to hear them. But saying that rock didn't have the ability to a cut a promo without a catchphrase, oh that's SO untrue.

[YOUTUBE] 4RA6e9UrbrY[/YOUTUBE]

Here is another one:

[YOUTUBE]Qao4o_xToco[/YOUTUBE]


You can question his wrestling ability all you want, but the fact is rock is the greatest on the mic, hands down. He can make you laugh, he can make you boo, he can make you cheer, and he can make you do whatever he want you to do.